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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Police Name Luigi Mangione As Suspect In CEO's Killing; CNN Goes Inside Syria's Notorious "Human Slaughterhouse" Prison; Daniel Penny Acquitted In Subway Death Of Jordan Neely; Ernst Says She'll Support Hegseth Going Through Confirmation Process. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired December 09, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Given how much respect and esteem she's earned around the world, you would think people wouldn't be fooling around with an iconic image like her doing that kangaroo.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: No, but listen, I just think that could have brought so much joy. Yeah, we -- we love our gun. I think you should be concerned about legal action, given that you did that kangaroo hop here.

KEILAR: I don't know what you're talking about Boris.

You know what? Let's go to Jake Tapper because THE LEAD is starting right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: A major arrest six days into the CEO murder manhunt.

THE LEAD starts right now.

A 26-year-old now in custody saying in a handwritten note, according to a source, quote, these parasites had it coming, apologizing and saying it had to be done. The items found that tied this person to murder and how an employee at McDonald's 280 miles away from the crime scene in Altoona, PA, made the biggest break in the case yet.

Plus, CNN in Syria, with the Assad regime toppled, agreeing to hand over power after 50 years of a cruel dictatorship. But who's going to take over now? We'll take you inside a prison where families are scrambling to find loved ones who may still be trapped inside.

And not guilty. Daniel Penny acquitted on all charges in the New York subway chokehold case. The family of Jordan Neely called the justice system rigged.

Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We do have breaking news in our national lead, 26-year-old Luigi Mangione, the man police say matches the description of the suspect who killed UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson last Wednesday is now under arrest on gun-related charges. Earlier this morning, police say Mangione was eating at a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, about a five hour drive from New York City when a McDonald's employee recognized the suspect and called police.

In Mangione's possession, they say, police found a ghost gun that may have been 3D printed, a suppressor, numerous fake IDs, a mask matching the suspect, and a handwritten document railing against the health insurance industry, suggesting violence is the answer.

Two quotes in the document read according to our sources, quote, these parasites had it coming, and quote, I do apologize for any strife and trauma, but it had to be done.

All this information according to law enforcement officials and sources to CNN, and it comes on the day of a private memorial service for Brian Thompson according to a source familiar with those memorial plans.

Let's go straight to CNN's Danny Freeman, who is live outside that McDonald's in Altoona, PA, where Mangione was taken into police custody.

Danny, what more do we know about the suspect and how he was arrested?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're learning a lot of information about exactly how Luigi Mangione was arrested, but I just want to say, Jake, I just got here on the scene not too long ago and as far as you noted, this literally is from midtown Manhattan. This also feels just so far from where this crime occurred just six days ago.

Like you said, we're in Altoona, Pennsylvania. It's in between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh, roughly in that central to western part of Pennsylvania. It's rural. This is a normal McDonald's just off the highway.

And as of now, it doesn't seem like there's any specific connection that ties Mangione to Altoona or to this area of Pennsylvania. And yet, like you said this is exactly the spot behind me where he was apprehended earlier today.

Altoona police saying that at 9:14 this morning, they got a call from a McDonald's employee right here saying that they believe that there was someone in the restaurant who matched the description of the murder suspect in this UnitedHealthcare CEO shooting. And then Altoona police, they showed up, they saw him, and he was just according to New York police department officials, just sitting here and eating fairly normally.

The Altoona police officers, they spoke to him. They ultimately apprehended him. It seems without incident and ultimately found as you said, on his person, that ghost gun, that suppressor or silencer, those fake IDs and then that manifesto that I think John miller and others will speak about in just a moment.

But importantly it is not clear -- or excuse me, I should say importantly, he was arrested here in Altoona, not for murder. He was arrested, like you said, on gun charges and that's how this process is going to unfold now. He's going to go through the legal system here in Altoona, and then New York officials will presumably draw up those murder charges and try to extradite him once they've had a chance to speak with him and confirm that he is indeed their suspect.

Now, I should say we just learned a short, a short moment ago that New York police department detectives have arrived here in Altoona. We saw them walking into the Altoona police department not too long ago so we now can say that that process is likely beginning.

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But again, Jake, still a lot of questions, even though, like we heard the mayor say, they believe they have their strong person of interest, their suspect in the shooting now in custody again, why was he in Altoona? We know that he has connections to Maryland, California, even Hawaii we also believe that he went to the University of Pennsylvania, but still no clear reason why he was here and as many folks have discussed, the question of why he was sitting there with all of this evidence on him.

So these are a lot of the questions that we're going to be asking as we go into the next several hours and next several days. Now, especially the NYPD is on the ground here in Pennsylvania -- Jake.

TAPPER: And, Danny, what can you tell us about the McDonald's employee who tipped off police?

FREEMAN: Well, we're still learning details about the specific McDonald's employee. What I can tell you right now, Jake, is this McDonald's is open. There are a number of people waiting on line in the drive thru.

And again, you've been to a lot of these towns and cities in Pennsylvania, Jake, this is not an area that necessarily gets rows of media like we are now seeing out here as well. So were hoping to learn more about this specific employee who really was courageous in making this phone call to police but once we have more information on that, we'll be sure to bring it to you -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Danny, thank you so much. Danny Freeman in Altoona, Pennsylvania.

Thanks so much.

Let's bring in CNN's Shimon Prokupecz in New York.

And, Shimon, we're learning more about the suspect, Luigi Mangione, including a a Goodreads profile that appears to be his, where he calls the infamous Unabomber a political revolutionary.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Yeah, he does, Jake.

And this is all this information that NYPD sources are confirming for us. And it is also information that they themselves are now reviewing. And in his review of the Ted Kaczynski manifest, he posted it on January 31st of this year. So just about a year ago, and he wrote about how peaceful protest is outright ignored. Economic protest is impossible in the current system. So how long until we recognize that violence against those who lead us to such destruction is justified as self-defense?

He then goes on to write that these companies don't care about you or your kids or your grandkids.

Now, the NYPD chief of detectives spoke about a manifesto that law enforcement that detectives have now recovered, which could speak to motive. Take a listen to what he said about that, Jake.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH KENNY, NYPD CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: That document is currently in the possession of the Altoona police department as part of their investigation. But just from briefly speaking with them, we don't think that there's any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document, but it does seem that he has some -- some ill will toward corporate America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: So that's what investigators -- that's what investigators are working on now, Jake, is trying to build out more of that motive. They're going to review other information that they've been able to obtain through social media. They're also going to be speaking with his family members to try and build out that motive.

The manifesto is certainly very interesting to investigators. You know, the other big thing here for them is going to be trying to figure out if there were any other potential targets because he still had all of this as Danny pointed out, all of this, all of these items still on him. So that's going to be a key part of this investigation and we wait for him now to appear here in New York City in the coming days, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Shimon Prokupecz in New York, thanks so much.

Let's bring in CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller, former CIA counterterrorism official and former FBI senior intelligence adviser Phil Mudd, and former senior FBI official Catherine Schweit.

John, let me start with you. Tell us more about this document found on Mangione with the quotes. Is it accurate to call it a manifesto?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, based on current manifesto standards, it's a little short, but brevity is preferred sometimes it's just two pages. It starts off basically with an apology saying, you know, I do apologize for any strife or trauma, but it had to be done. It talks about these parasites, had it coming.

And within the document before, kind of the latter part of the document where he rails against the hotel -- the hotel -- the health care industry and, you know, overcharging and profiteering, allegedly he talks about he acted alone and was self-financed.

Now there's a question, Jake, about why does this document exist? You know people say, well, maybe he wanted to be caught he had the gun. He had the document. There is another point of view, which is as we all know from having followed this detail by detail, he went to an extraordinarily length not to be caught, only lowering the mask once in a single moment maintaining this discipline to have this disguise, carrying this out, making his escape, he just doesn't appear to somebody who was looking to get caught.

But he may have been prepared to get caught which is different. If he was caught with a gun which might ballistically matched to the killing and with this manifesto he wanted an explanation. Of course, the other possibility is, and this is the darkest that he was planning to strike again, maybe at some other executive or target, and that the manifesto was either going to be left or sent to police, or sent to the media.

We don't know until police get a good time, a good chance to sit down and draw him out if he decides to talk.

TAPPER: Phil, what's your takeaway?

PHIL MUDD, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: I have a maybe a bit of a different take in that around one word, and that is emotion.

When you have a 26 year old, and this is apparently, if you look at his educational background, extremely intelligent individual, the emotional investment and planning going to New York City ten days in advance of the murder and conducting a murder, the emotional investment in that is tremendous.

The point, Jake, is you have to have validation to get over the bridge to say, I'm going to murder somebody. Validation to say my cause is worthy. Everyone will understand my cause. There are others who believe in my cause. I can justify my cause.

One way you justify that cause to get over that emotional bar of saying I'm going to murder somebody is to write two pages to say there's reason for this. There's hundreds of millions of people in America who might understand my reason, whether or not that's logical to us, that's logical to him. Bottom line, to get over the emotional bar of murder, he wrote a validation that validation is what John just referred to.

TAPPER: And, Phil, we're also learning that a ghost gun, which police say may have been 3D printed as well as a suppressor, were found on Mangione. How will officials determine whether that's the murder weapon?

MUDD: Well, I think the basics here is to get access to his phone, to get access to his laptop, to determine what he researched over the past months, maybe even years.

I don't think it will be that long. I suspect within the past 90 or 120 days, he was researching how to do this. But once they gain access to him, to his home, to his apartment, to

his family, to his laptop, they can do things like not only research how he downloaded maybe a ghost gun, but how he researched in terms of Google terms, accessing a weapon. I would guess over the next 48 hours we're going to get a ton of information, not only about the technical issues, how he gained access to the weapon, but also about the psychological issues, what he was thinking of. For example, was he on social media groups that we're talking about insurance companies? We're going to learn a lot in the next two days, Jake.

TAPPER: And, Katherine, we know that all sorts of tips have been coming in to the NYPD from individuals, including from UnitedHealthcare, talking about individuals that have expressed discontent and threatened the CEO. But take a listen to what the NYPD said at its press conference earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: What's his name on your radar? Was he someone who you had been looking into before his arrest?

JOSEPH KENNY, CHIEF OF DETECTIVES, NYPD: No, we did not have his name prior to today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So they did not even have his name prior to today this is as far as we know as of right now, it seems like this guy was caught entirely because the McDonald's employee recognized him.

KATHERINE SCHWEIT, FORMER SENIOR FBI OFFICIAL: Yeah, he was. I mean, that's how he was caught in the -- and the tracing and the check on the gun will tell them whether or not it matches the suppression -- the suppression and item and the handgun will tell us whether or not it matches the items found on the scene. And that will connect him directly.

But when it comes to him, it's not unusual. Somebody who is on this kind of trajectory towards targeted violence, where they -- they get this idea, this ideation that they're going to commit a violent act and then they plan and prepare for it, very oftentimes, we'll see individuals who do that type of type of harm -- they are not the what we think of as the typical person who they're not the guy who thinks about killing people all the time. And that's the other reason why there was not really a concern by and by NYPD that he was going to strike again right away. And like, he was running around the city shooting people because he had one target in mind, he was going to shoot that person. And he managed to execute that.

But I'm with John on this. I think he was caught with a lot of things that might include the fact that he wasn't done. He might have been looking for other victims.

TAPPER: And, Katherine, on an exit count that appears to belong to Mangione, he posted what looks like an X-ray image of a spine after surgery, and on his Goodreads account, Mangione also posted about reading or wanting books about people struggling with chronic back pain. So it seems like there are some pieces here about whether or not he or somebody he loved maybe ultimately had some really bad back pain and the health insurance company wasn't paying for it.

I guess this is what law enforcement is doing right now in trying to piece together a motive.

SCHWEIT: Yeah, I think that that's essentially like post-acute care. You get -- you get care. And then after that surgery or after that care how long does that post-acute care coverage, how much coverage do they give you and how much do they take care of you is a huge issue in that industry right now.

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UnitedHealth has made huge amounts of money in the last few years, including more by denying post-acute care. And I think that's not a new news story, but it will be a reviewed news story for sure, because that idea that executives make huge amounts of money and then, you know, 1 in 4 people in the United States are impacted by UnitedHealth decisions, right, for 7,000 hospitals, a million employees, a lot of people were on the possibilities list for somebody who might either have been injured and trying to recover or trying to decide, okay, how do I -- you know, how do I go through this when the health insurance company won't cover this anymore for the rest of my life.

That creates a lot of anger. And that's really what you see here -- Anger, anger, anger.

TAPPER: Thanks to all of you.

CNN anchor Laura Coates, a former prosecutor, has been all over the case. She's going through the intricate details of the capture. She and her team are working on special reporting about this arrest, and you can look for that on "LAURA COATES LIVE" tonight at 11:00 p.m. Eastern, only here on CNN.

Here on THE LEAD, we're digging more into the suspect and the tip from the McDonald's employee that led to the arrest. My next guest knows a lot about this part of Pennsylvania and can weigh in on this major investigation taking over the area.

And some of the most powerful images yet after the Assad regime was pushed out of Syria, a rush of people flooding a prison once called a human slaughterhouse, looking for any trace of their loved ones. CNN also made it inside this prison. We'll take you there ahead.

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TAPPER: And we're following the breaking news. Police have arrested a suspect in the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Six days now. After that murder outside a Hilton in Manhattan, police picked up 26 year old Luigi Mangione in Altoona, Pennsylvania. This is after an employee at a McDonald's recognized him from photos and called the cops.

Joining us now, Congressman John Joyce, a Republican who represents the Altoona area.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. Sorry it's under these conditions.

Can you tell us if the NYPD has arrived on the scene yet, as far as you know?

REP. JOHN JOYCE (R-PA): Jake, just in the last 30 minutes, the FBI and the NYPD have arrived at the Altoona Police Department's headquarters.

And I've been in contact with officials from the Altoona City. I have not talked to the chief of police, Joe Merrill who is keenly involved in this investigation.

TAPPER: So, what's curious, and you might not have an answer for it is, is why he was in Altoona. It's a lovely place to go. You and I have common friends in Altoona, the port family. But he's from apparently Maryland. He went to the University of Pennsylvania.

Is there a connection he has that, you know, to Altoona at all?

JOYCE: No known connection, but there's great availability. We have rail we have bus service, and we have a great interstate highway system that comes through Altoona, Pennsylvania.

TAPPER: Okay. So it's like a thoroughfare. It's pretty incredible. I don't know if you know who this McDonald's employee is. One of your constituents, it seems, identified him. And the only reason that this case has been cracked, assuming it has, is that this McDonald's employee in Altoona recognized the assailant. From the photos that have been on TV.

JOYCE: Jake, this was a courageous employee. A restaurant employee at McDonald's on plank road in Altoona, Pennsylvania. And not only did she see something not only did she say something, she did something. She alerted the Altoona Police Department, who responded quickly and detained this individual, this person who was suspect and highly suspect.

But she was very courageous, asking him to remain there while the police arrived and to be able to do that. I hope this will put an end to the ongoing investigation. I think that having someone in hand right now having the FBI and the New York Police Department in Altoona, Pennsylvania, continuing that investigation, will allow many people to rest at ease.

TAPPER: So what did she say to the suspect as far as you know? She approached him and said something?

JOYCE: I don't know what the content of that conversation was, but I know it was an employee at the McDonald's restaurant in Altoona, a courageous employee. TAPPER: Yeah, no, it's a gutsy thing. You see somebody you know, I'm

sure most people would be like oh, I don't even know. What if I'm wrong? What if that isn't him?

But, you know, he really looks a lot like him, and she just called 911. I assume. And the police came?

JOYCE: And we have 66 police officers in the Altoona Police Force. My medical practice, I practiced medicine for 25 years before coming to Congress, my medical practice is just two blocks away from that McDonald's restaurant, in a place where I took my children when they were young, and I took my grandchildren as well recently.

TAPPER: So you're a physician and since the shooting, we've heard a lot of, well, two things. One, understandable frustration with the health insurance industry, which my dad's a doctor also, and I know that that's something that a lot of doctors experience. And then, two, a real nihilistic and horrible distasteful rejoicing in the murder of this health insurance executive. What's been your reaction to this?

JOYCE: First and foremost, I deplore any type of violence to this degree. This is not the way to solve the problem. But when I ran for Congress six years ago, the frustration of the constituents in south central Pennsylvania was one of the reasons that I ran for Congress, to be able to address that, to be able to address access to care that patients had the opportunity to receive the care, the medicines and the therapies that they need to heal.

TAPPER: All right. Congressman John Joyce, Republican of Pennsylvania, thanks so much. Good to see you, sir.

JOYCE: Thank you.

TAPPER: Appreciate it.

Coming up next, CNN's incredible access inside Syria. See inside a military prison that could have hidden cells underground and people still trapped inside. Stay with us.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Who's running Syria this morning?

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: That's an open question. Right now, the rebel groups are in charge of Damascus again. Yes, HTS sort of was the vanguard here. But they're not the only rebel or opposition group in Damascus, as we speak. And I think they're trying to work that out amongst themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Big question. Who is in charge of Syria now that the Assad regime has fallen after more than five decades of a brutal dictatorship?

This afternoon, the former Assad regime prime minister agreed to hand over power to HTS. That's the main rebel group that ousted them. And here's a novel sight today, the border crossing between Lebanon and Syria is busy with displaced Syrians returning home for the first time since the civil war began in 2011.

The country of Turkey also says it will open its gate with Syria to allow for a voluntary return of Syrian migrants. One urgent priority is the search for missing Syrians and others believed to have been held inside a notorious military prison.

CNN's Clarissa Ward is there reporting on the search in that prison, which Amnesty International calls a human slaughterhouse.

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CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The stream of families never stops climbing towards Syria's most notorious Saydnaya prison pushed on by reports that thousands of people imprisoned by the regime of Bashar al-Assad are still trapped alive in a section underground.

[16:30:03]

The red section of the prison, they've been trying for days to reach it, Maysoon Abu (ph) tells us. There's no oxygen because the ventilation went out and so they all may die.

For the sake of Allah, help them.

Is someone from your family in the prison?

My three brothers and my son in law, she says.

The roads are choked with cars full of people looking for loved ones. As soon as they see our camera, they approach, holding lists of names of those who vanished inside Assad's dungeons, never to be seen again I have to get them out before tomorrow, this man says they don't have food. They don't have water.

Everybody's just started running. It's not clear if they have managed to get into this part of the prison.

My God, my God, the woman, praised. My God, as the crowd surges towards the prison. So it looks like they think that they have managed to get access. A lot of celebratory gunfire, people now just flooding in after the initial jubilation, an agonizing wait for confirmation from the rescue workers. Many here have been waiting for decades hope was something they didn't let themselves feel until now.

Rescue workers with Syria's White Helmets break through the concrete, looking for a way in. No one is certain where this red section is, or if it even exists.

Inside the prison, family members are searching too. You can see people everywhere just combing through all the papers and records they can find, looking for names seeing if maybe their loved ones are there.

Tens of thousands of Syrians were forcibly disappeared in Saydnaya lost in the abyss of a prison that was known as a slaughterhouse. Industrial scale, arbitrary detention and torture, all to keep one man in power.

They call this the white area of the prison because they say the conditions here are much better than in other areas. But you can see, it's still miserable.

In the center of the prison, another frantic rush. Someone thinks they have found a tunnel. They desperately try to get a look inside.

Others look on helpless, not knowing is agony. Assad may be gone but the legacy of his cruelty remains.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WARD (on camera): Now, Jake, there are still conflicting reports about Saydnaya and whether this so-called red section of the prison exists. A group that calls itself the Association of Detainees and the Missing in Saydnaya put out a statement on Twitter saying that basically this was incorrect, that all people who were being held in Saydnaya had been released by 11:00 a.m. on December 8th, and yet we are still seeing media reports as recently as an hour ago saying they believe once again, they may have found this so-called red area.

And all of this, I think, Jake, really speaking to the general state of confusion that exists on the ground here on the streets of Damascus tonight. It is very quiet, eerily calm. But definitely today we saw long lines of people waiting for gas, waiting to take out cash, waiting for bread trying to stock up on groceries as people grapple with the enormity of this moment and what the future may hold, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Clarissa Ward in Damascus, Syria, thank you so much. Please stay safe.

Let's talk about all this with Ibrahim Al-Assil. He's a senior fellow at the Middle East institute.

And Natasha Hall, a senior fellow with the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Ibrahim, I'll start with you.

The rebel group HTS appears to be taking control of some important parts of Syria, but is that group truly in charge or is there still enough of a power vacuum for something to change? What's the status of how this country is being run?

IBRAHIM AL-ASSIL, SENIOR FELLOW, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Thanks for having me, Jake. This is a great question to start the discussion with, because if we look at what's happened over the last 13 years, we see that the Syrian state was collapsing throughout Syria and in the major part of the of the country where Assad has survived for 13 years. His regime survived. But the state collapsed.

So many local communities took things into their own hands, and they formed some sort of coordination bodies where they can run their towns or their neighborhoods or other parts of Syria.

[16:35:06]

But that wasn't the case really inside the city of Damascus. That's why now security is kind of a concern in the city to see if actually the rebel groups will be able to offer security the same way they were able in Aleppo. In Aleppo, it was the city was controlled only by one armed group, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, HTS. In Damascus, the situation was different, but gradually over the last 2 to 3 days, HTS has been trying to assert control over the city.

They've been trying now to protect the public buildings after they were looted and they are offering some vision of power transition. That's still very ambiguous. And Syrians can't really tell what's going on.

TAPPER: Natasha, the leader of HTS in public statements, has seeming he seems to be trying to strike a moderate tone at least relatively. He's claiming that he's opposed to the brutal tactics used by other jihadi groups. To get today, they issued general amnesty for soldiers in the Syrian military who had been conscripted, forced into service.

What do you make of that move, and how long do you think this appearance of moderation can last?

NATASHA HALL, SENIOR FELLOW, CSIS MIDDLE EAST: Thank you so much for having me, Jake.

It's a -- it's a great question and I think a lot remains to be seen. But what we do know is that Jolani is doing and saying the right things immediately upon entering Aleppo City, they tried to prevent looting and protect government buildings, as Ibrahim mentioned. They also went around to reassure not just minorities, Christians and others, but also those who were living in regime controlled areas in the western part of the city for the entirety of the conflict, that no harm would come to them.

And most recently, we've seen another statement from HTS, basically saying that no members should interfere with a woman's attire essentially. So we can see that there is a protection of minorities and hopefully protection of livelihoods as well.

Now, I do know that there is a search for certain kinds of regime officials in parts of the coast in Latakia and in Damascus and we hope that that comes to sort of a peaceful accountability effort. But there is still the potential for a lot of tensions.

And it's also not clear if HTS will be able to really control the rising emotions amongst the population that has suffered brutally under this regime for not just 13 years, but really over half a century. TAPPER: And, Ibrahim, back to the search for all those missing

Syrians and others in -- in that horrific prison. You've noted that the prison design and the absence of blueprints make the search more difficult. What are you hearing -- is there any hope that more people will be found there and they'll be alive?

AL-ASSIL: You know, that's a very difficult question for many of the families and the mothers around those prisons trying to, at least to find a closure. I think the next step will be looking for the mass graves around those prisons.

But you know, when I look at what's happening in those prisons, when I look at them trying to find detainees through the cracks in the walls, and they dig in the floors, trying to bring them up for me, that's Syrians looking in the eyes of Assad Syria, trying to find any survivors, trying to look into those dark dungeons and when I saw the rebels that many of them, they wanted to reach those prisons before they wanted to reach the presidential palace itself in Damascus.

That tells a lot about the core of this uprising, of why people picked up arms and they said, no matter what happens to me, I would kill or get killed. But I'm not going back to those prisons again. This is at the core of the Syrian uprising, and these detention centers that were designed to rule the Syrian society through fear are very symbolic to how Assad Syria was. And now this fight to find survivors is also symbolic as well.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks to both of you. Really appreciate it.

Coming up, the point of contention that led to a dramatic day in a New York courtroom, Daniel Penny was acquitted by a jury of his peers in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely on that New York subway. We're going to break down the verdict next.

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[16:43:35]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDRE ZACHARY, FATHER OF JORDAN NEELY: It hurts -- really, really hurts. What are we going to do, people? What's going to happen to us now? I had enough of this. The system is rigged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In our law and justice league.

That was the father of Jordan Neely reacting to the not guilty verdict for the man accused of killing his son. We just learned Daniel Penny was acquitted in the death of Neely on a New York subway after the jury deliberated the charges for more than 20 hours. Penny found not guilty of criminally negligent homicide after the judge already dismissed the higher manslaughter charge on Friday after the jury deadlocked on that.

With me to talk more about the case, CNN's Gloria Pazmino and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson.

So, Gloria, no one disputes that, that Penny's actions were responsible for the death of Neely, right? So why did the jury acquit Penny?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, the prosecution failed to prove to them that penny should have known that there was a risk when he put Jordan Neely in the chokehold. That was the second charge that they had to deliberate on, the criminally negligent homicide.

They were hung on. The more serious charge, the manslaughter in the second degree. That charge was dismissed on Friday.

But it's clear that someone in that room thought that penny was guilty of at least that top charge, because the jury was hung on it twice.

[16:45:04]

Now, we haven't heard yet from the jurors. We don't know what was said in this room, but it was clear that one side won the argument for them. And in this case, it was the defense. They argued that penny was justified and that he was responding to a threat posed by Neely. Also, that it was not just the chokehold alone that killed him, but rather a combination of other factors, including his drug use and his schizophrenia.

It just illustrates how divided some New Yorkers are on some of these issues -- mental illness, homelessness, public safety on the transit system. Take a listen to the mayor reacting shortly after the verdict.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D), NEW YORK: New Yorkers have always been tired of things that allow people who commit violent acts -- violent acts to be part of a revolving door system.

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PAZMINO: Now, of course, the mayor is not powerless in his advocacy here. He does have some control over just how the system that he is referencing works, but it's not clear just yet whether or not he's going to put any political capital behind reforming the system that he is talking about -- Jake.

TAPPER: Thank you, Gloria.

And, Joey, we saw the jury dismiss the more serious manslaughter charge on Friday. Joey, what was the likely debate that made them dismissed the homicide charge as well? Negligent homicide?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah, Jake, I think there were two central issues. I think the first issue was whether or not it was self-defense. Self-defense is justification. And I'm sure there were jurors. And in fact, now we know there were jurors who were believing that, number one, there was an immediate fear of death or serious physical injury to other persons on that subway car. Number two, that the force used by the defendant in this case was

proportionate to the threat that was posed. And number three, that he acted reasonably.

And so, that was a problem. And I'm sure jurors said based upon the testimony of witnesses and the fear that they expressed, that he acted in an appropriate, justified and reasonable way.

The second issue, remember, there was a battle of the experts. There was a discussion with respect to what caused his death. That is Jordan Neely's death.

Was it the fact that there was a chokehold? There was inconsistent testimony with regard to whether pressure was applied sufficiently to make it happen, or did he just have him in a lock to maintain a grasp?

There was also the issue although the medical examiner for the state, the city, indicated that it was the choke you had the defense that said, no, it was not. It was his schizophrenia. It was a synthetic marijuana in his system. It was the nature of the event itself.

And so those are the two issues. I think that the jury grappled with and ultimately decided there was not proof beyond a reasonable doubt to get to the first hung jury. As Gloria noted right on telling the judge twice what do we do, your honor? Not reaching a conclusion then finally, with respect to this criminally negligent charge, saying, you know what just not there in terms of the evidence, we're going to acquit.

TAPPER: And, Joey, is this a case that can be retried or that's it?

JACKSON: This is it. The case is over. If you recall when they came to that is the jury, the conclusion which was a lack of conclusion that we cannot reach a conclusion on the manslaughter, the prosecution dismissed that case. That then left the second charge, which he was acquitted of.

This case is over. There's a civil case pending that's about monetary damages. The criminal aspect is done.

TAPPER: All right. Joey Jackson, Gloria Pazmino, thanks to both of you.

Just moments ago, CNN's Manu Raju caught up with Iowa Republican Senator Joni Ernst. She's key to the confirmation or not confirmation of Pete Hegseth for secretary of defense. What she said about President-elect Trump's pick for Pentagon head and his denials about allegations of sexual assault.

Stay with us.

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[16:52:39]

TAPPER: Back with our politics lead. A number of President-elect Trump's picks for key national security jobs just finished meetings on Capitol Hill with Republican lawmakers. These include nominees Pete Hegseth, Kash Patel and Tulsi Gabbard.

CNN's chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju was on Capitol Hill with us. For us with a major update on Hegseth's nomination for secretary of defense.

Tell us more, Manu.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Senator Joni Ernst is considered one of the key, if not the most significant Republican votes in the entire Republican conference. Just met with Pete Hegseth actually, for a second time. They also had another meeting over the weekend, given some of her concerns dealing with his past views, opposing women in combat.

Of course, Ernst was a combat veteran. Ernst has also been a victim of sexual assault, has called for changes to the practice to how the pentagon deals with those claims. And Hegseth, as we know, has been accused of sexual assault, something that he has denied.

But after they have met, she indicated that she would support him through the process. She said she sounded very positive about his confirmation prospects, although she's not quite a yes yet.

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RAJU: These are supporting the process. It doesn't sound like you're a yes yet. Is that fair?

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): I am supporting the process, he is denials about those assault allegations.

RAJU: Do you believe those denials?

ERNST: I'll refer you back to the state.

RAJU: Is the pressure you're getting back home and primary politics playing to this?

ERNST: We have been talking these same issues every meeting that we've had and he had really thoughtful resources.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, Ernst has had a lot of pressure from folks who support Donald Trump to back this nomination, though she contended these were all part of discussions she was having with -- with Hegseth even as Ernst herself is facing reelection in a couple of years.

She did put out a statement, Jake, talking about her comments. She said that Hegseth had had committed to a full audit of the Pentagon. She said he would. He's going to select a senior official who will uphold the roles and value of our servicemen and women, and she also said, in talking about how she will support him through this process, she said, I look forward to a fair hearing based on truth, not anonymous sources suggesting perhaps that those accusations of misconduct, accusations of excessive drinking and the like.

She's not as perhaps concerned about that because some of these reports are based on anonymous sources, although, of course she was -- he was accused of sexual assault in a police report, the accuser signed a nondisclosure agreement as well.

[16:55:12]

But all -- but as you heard from her right there, I asked her if she believes those denials and she said I'll refer you back to my statement -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Manu Raju on Capitol Hill for us, thanks so much.

Up next, the breaking news. A suspect arrested in the murder of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare. CNN is at the McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, where that arrest went down.

Plus, the brand new details revealing the suspect's potential motive.

Stay with us.

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TAPPER: Welcome to the lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

We're going to start this hour with the breaking news. CNN has just obtained a photograph of the gun found on the suspect in the shooting of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare. Take a look at this new photo obtained by CNN's John Miller. It's the weapon recovered by police earlier today when they detained 26-year-old Luigi Mangione. New York police officials say this is a ghost gun, meaning a handmade --