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The Lead with Jake Tapper

CEO Killer Suspect Yells As He Arrives At Court Hearing; Franklin Wildfire Rips Through Malibu; Syrian Tells CNN About Horrors During Assad's Brutal Rule. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired December 10, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Kids pumped up, rappelled down a third, and then you get stuck up there for everybody to see.

[16:00:07]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yeah, he probably wasn't taking his time because he was all over this weekend. I saw him Saturday. So he just had a lot of things to do. And you know, when you get in a hurry, you can just kind of hit a snag.

SANCHEZ: Was he in good spirits when you saw him?

KEILAR: Yes, absolutely. As always.

SANCHEZ: Yeah. Jolly old Saint Nick. Love that guy. Trying to -- trying to butter him up for some good gifts.

THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.

(MUSIC)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: A shocking moment earlier today as the suspected CEO killer was taken to court.

THE LEAD starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUIGI MANGIONE, SUSPECTED CEO KILLER: Insult the intelligence of the American people!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The court appearance. No one saw coming. The suspected killer yelling, unruly, as police force him inside. And that's not the only new image. As detectives are revealing new evidence they say proves this is the killer.

Plus, CNN in Syria, inside the palace of former President Bashar al- Assad. His luxury cars and lavish lifestyle. While the people of Syria suffered in poverty.

And in one single hour, a California wildfire tripled in size, exploding to threaten homes, businesses and even the iconic Malibu pier.

Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Breaking news in our national lead, in a rather dramatic scene this afternoon as the man accused of killing the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, Brian Thompson, arrived at court for an extradition hearing.

(BEGIN VIDOE CLIP)

MANGIONE: It's completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people.

It's lived experience!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That was 26-year-old suspect Luigi Mangione yelling as officers then rushed him inside, where he was then denied bail. He was fighting extradition to New York City. We'll have more on what came out of that hearing in a moment.

But since we last saw you, a lots happened in this case. The suspect is now facing multiple charges, including that of second degree murder, which is a reference to an intentional killing that does not involve premeditation or pre-planning. We'll unpack more on why prosecutors are going with that charge.

The suspect's family, meanwhile, has issued a statement saying in part, quote: Our family is shocked and devastated by Luigi's arrest. We offer prayers to the family of Brian Thompson, and we ask people to pray for all involved.

We're also hearing from Mangione's friends about the event in his life that they say made him go silent for months before the killing.

Today, New York police revealed some of the specific evidence they have against the suspect so far. Pennsylvania police also releasing new images of the suspect inside that McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, where he was essentially taken down after downing a hash brown.

CNN's Danny Freeman is in Pennsylvania.

Danny, get us up to speed on what happened at that extradition hearing just a few hours ago.

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Jake, a much different tone today at the Blair County courthouse than last evening.

Our cameras were rolling, as you noted, as Luigi Mangione was seen yelling and really screaming as he was taken out of that squad car. It was hard to make out exactly what he said, as you played earlier, but what we heard was, quote, it's completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people. It's lived experience.

But then you saw he was quickly pushed back into the courthouse by police. When he came into the court, according to our producers who were actually inside of that room during that hearing, he was shackled. He was wearing an orange jumpsuit. He looked disheveled and notably he did not speak as much as he did at last night's hearing in that same courthouse and court room.

But again, as you noted, the main takeaway here is that Mangione will be fighting that extradition to New York, so the judge ruled he'll be staying in Pennsylvania in a prison in Pennsylvania, I should say, for at least a little while longer and still without bail. That being said, though, Jake, the Blair County district attorney, said that they will not stand in the way of this extradition to New York. Take a listen to what he said just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER WEEKS, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, BLAIR COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA: We do not intend to delay this defendants extradition to New York, and we certainly. And we've indicated this to New York. Their prosecution should take precedence, and then ours will follow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREEMAN: Now, Jake, Mangione has about 14 days to file a petition for habeas corpus, basically challenging Pennsylvania's ability to prove that he is actually the person that New York wants for this warrant for murder. But until then, Mangione will be in custody for the time being in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Danny, stand by. I'm going to come back to you in a sec.

First, let's bring in CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller, along with criminal defense attorney Stacy Schneider and former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe.

Stacy, the suspect is fighting extradition to New York. Is that unusual?

STACY SCHNEIDER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE TRIAL ATTORNEY: Yes, it is. Normally, they just consent to extradition. It's very quick and easy. They know they have charges waiting for them in another state. This defendant decided to go a different path.

[16:05:03]

He's going to be extradited to New York, even if he's not consenting now. The state of New York has up to 90 days to go claim him. And what prosecutors are doing right now in New York is getting Governor Kathy Hochul to sign off on an extradition warrant. That warrant will then go to the governor of the commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

He will sign off on that warrant. That will be presented to the court, and he will be released. The defendant will be released to New York state custody. There will be law enforcement who will specifically go to Pennsylvania to pick him up in a secure fashion. And I just want to point out that you note, he's already wearing an

orange prisoner jumpsuit, which means a high risk defendant. And that is also typical when there are murder charges.

TAPPER: John, does this complicate the process for New York investigators?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Not really. If anything, it buys them some time to get their probable cause and everything together. The extradition may be challenged on a specific grounds like that guy in the pictures isn't me, you know that crime isn't, you know, charged. But basically, he's going to be denied bail in all reasonable likelihood when he gets back to New York.

So that means this trial would probably happen sometime a year out from now. So this wrangling over the next two weeks, or probably at the longest 30 days, is not going to amount to much, except he's saying staying in a jail in Pennsylvania instead of a jail in New York.

TAPPER: And, Andrew, what do you make of the suspects combative behavior while arriving in court today? Could this impact him going forward?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know, its not likely going to impact, you know, an impression on the judge or something like that, because this, of course, is not the jurisdiction that's ultimately going to try him for the homicide. He's not charged with a homicide in Pennsylvania.

I think probably it does indicate, though, some degree of unrest on his part, right? Like, this is not a guy who's starting off this process by acknowledging anything or showing remorse. He seems to be combative. You know, even his statement, it's hard to understand exactly what he was talking about there, but it might be consistent with some of these statements that were seized from him when he was arrested.

So these aggressive statements about health care and the health care industry and things like that, it could go to kind of show like this is really where his head is at right now, which is not a great look for him. But in terms of prejudicing the judge or impacting the proceedings in that way, I don't think too much will come of it.

TAPPER: Stacy, explain the charges being filed against this suspect and especially the second degree murder charge, which is an intentional killing that does not -- intentional killing that does not involve premeditation. This seems to have been premeditated.

SCHNEIDER: Right. Well, in New York state, a murder two charge, which is what he's charged with, is very simple. Did the person have the intent to cause the death and did their actions actually cause the death? And it's very simplistic. There are defenses that can be mounted to that.

But he also has some other lesser felonies, obviously, than the murder charge, possession of a forged instrument for allegedly being in possession of documents that were fraudulent, possession of a firearm in the state of New York unlawfully. But the murder charge is obviously what everybody is looking at.

And I wanted to point out something based on what Andrew said. While his outburst may not hurt him in Pennsylvania with the judge during an extradition hearing, it can hurt him in the state of New York in front of the jury, because that videotape that CNN just rolled can be rolled right in front of the jury. And his words that he stated, even though we don't quite know what they are, they are considered statements by the defendant.

They can cut against him. And when the prosecution can use those statements against him, but they also, in a strange way, might help him, because if his defense attorneys choose to mount some kind of insanity defense or some kind of I'm calling it, what I think they would probably do is an OxyContin defense that he was had painkillers in his system, and he was in a disturbed state. Those statements might actually help out that type of defense.

TAPPER: Andrew, today, new charging documents from NYPD outlined their purported evidence, which includes this hostile surveillance footage, hostile records with business records showing the suspect provided a fake ID there and that same fake ID that was found while the suspect was being taken into custody at that Altoona, Pennsylvania, McDonald's on Monday.

Given what we know about the evidence right now, how strong of a case might this be?

[16:10:02]

MCCABE: Yeah, Jake, it's an incredibly strong case based simply on the IDs, which you can't really challenge. And the written statements that he had on him at the time. If the firearm that he had in his possession also comes back, you know, through ballistic testing to be the murder weapon, he's literally got very, very, very little room for any sort of credible defense. So it's -- it could be a very strong case that he's facing in New York.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks to all of you. Let's go back to CNN's Danny Freeman, who looked into the suspects time at the Ivy League college, the University of Pennsylvania, where he graduated in 2020.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREEMAN (voice-over): Years before he'd be escorted into a Pennsylvania courthouse, Luigi Mangione spent time more than 200 miles east here at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. The prestigious Ivy League university, confirming Mangione graduated on May 18th, 2020 with a bachelors and masters degree in engineering.

That means he likely spent much of his time here at the School of Engineering and Applied Science. Now, while there weren't a lot of people who knew him or willing to speak to us about him on camera, at least one student said that he was a TA of computer and information sciences.

Also, in a since taken down post for the university's Penn Today, Mangione was featured for leading a 60 student club that made video games. Quote: I wanted to make my own game and so I learned how to code, Mangione told a university writer.

JARED MITOVICH, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THE DAILY PENNSYLVANIAN: He was a member of the honor society and engineering school, which is only for the top students in the class. He was involved in a fraternity on campus.

FREEMAN: UPenn student newspaper editor in chief Jared Mitovich said his team has been working to see if there were any signs then of what was to come.

MITOVICH: What was the type of education he received at Penn, the type of place where he would have learned how to 3D print? Is it the type of place where he, you know, was exposed to, you know, certain beliefs just in like the groups that he ran into or like the things that he was involved in?

FREEMAN: Mangione grew up in a wealthy family from Baltimore. According to "The Baltimore Sun", his grandfather, Nicholas Mangione, built a local real estate empire that included nursing home facilities around Maryland and two suburban country clubs.

In a statement released by Mangione's cousin, Maryland State Delegate Nino Mangione, his family said they were shocked and devastated by Luigi's arrest.

At his arraignment Monday night, Mangione told the judge he had been in contact with his family, quote, until recently.

MANGIONE: It's been an incredible journey.

FREEMAN: Mangione graduated valedictorian in 2016 from Baltimore's prestigious all boys The Gilman School. Former classmates couldn't believe he was now this suspect.

FREDDIE LEATHERBURY, SUSPECT'S HIGH SCHOOL CLASSMATE: I can tell you that this is one of the last people you'd think would do something like this.

FREEMAN: In recent years, according to a friend and online postings, though, Mangione suffered from back pain and underwent surgery to treat it. A Reddit user matching his biographical details writing in July 2023, my back and hips locked up after the accident. Intermittent numbness has become constant. I'm terrified of the implications.

By mid-summer, the same year, Mangione then appeared to go quiet on social media.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREEMAN: Now, notably, Jake, after Mangione started to fade away from his online presence, people started to notice. At least one X user tweeted him saying, I haven't heard from you in months. Another user then in late November before the shooting posted at him thinking of you and prayers every day in your name. Know you are missed and loved.

And I'll note, Jake, Penn declined to comment further for this particular story -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Danny Freeman, thanks so much.

From the Starbucks to the taxi cab and even the full face shots from the hostel, why didn't anyone recognize the wanted man in all these surveillance photos? We're going to Maryland next, where the suspect's family has wide connections.

Also had the medical emergency today involving Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell. What were learning about his condition after the 82-year-old tripped and fell.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:17:45]

TAPPER: Back with our national lead as we're learning more about the suspect in the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

CNN's Brian Todd is in Towson, Maryland, where he's been tracking down information on the suspect's friends and family.

Brian, who have you talked to and what are they saying about him?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Jake. We've been combing through this area north of Baltimore, the suburbs here, and talking to people who know the Mangione family worked for them and we're getting this portrait of a family with enormous wealth, influence and power.

Right behind me is the Hayfields Country Club. This is one of at least two golf courses that the Mangione family owns. There are exclusive properties on this on these grounds right here, properties that we are not being allowed access to. There are security personnel keeping us out of here.

So this family again has enormous influence in this community. They also own a chain of assisted living facilities.

And I spoke with Thomas Maronick, Jr. He is a former radio talk show host who hosted a show for about 20 years on a radio station, WCBM, that the Mangione family owns. He talked to us about kind of the contradiction with what this young man is alleged to have done, and the fact that his family works in the health care business.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS MARONICK JR., LAWYER & HOST ON RADIO STATION OWNED BY MANGIONE FAMILY: That's extremely ironic, because this is part of their family business, and he's railing against corporate health care. Just it seems to be going against the grain within his own family if that's true. (END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD: Now, Maronick went on to tell us that the -- he believes the Mangione family was great to work with, great to work for. He said they were extremely generous, especially with their employees.

And as far as the radio station that he worked at, he said it is known as being a conservative, a very conservative radio talk station. And he said when he worked for them, you know, he had himself kind of centrist views. But he said the family never tried to influence his content, never tried to kind of get him to sway over to their conservative political beliefs -- just kind of a window into this family, extremely influential, wealthy and very powerful in this area.

We were also told, Jake, that they have they have engaged in a lot of philanthropy in this area. Their name is on a pool at the University of Loyola, Maryland. And of course, they -- they did send their son to the exclusive Gilman School, the all boys school near Baltimore here.

TAPPER: All right, Brian Todd, thank you so much.

[16:20:02]

Let's bring in Juliette Kayyem, CNN senior national security analyst.

Juliette, let's take a look at the photos that New York City police released immediately after the killing. You can see. Let's bring that up if we can. You can see Mangione very clearly in the pictures on the bottom there from the hostel.

You can see his eyes in the pictures. I think that's from the Starbucks, and then from the very distinctive eyes and eyebrows from the cab.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONA SECURITY ANALYST: Yes.

TAPPER: He's distinctive looking. You know, there are a lot of kids out there saying he's good looking. Apparently, no one in his rather wide network of friends or his large family recognized this person that they knew very, very well who apparently, according to his friends, had fallen off the grid somewhat in recent months. I mean, in the end, its a random McDonald's employee who recognizes him and turns him in.

What do you make of that?

KAYYEM: Yeah, it's an interesting, if not slightly disturbing aspect to this story. I mean, because -- because what we don't know is whether he was going to commit another crime. So it wasn't a matter of, are you turning in your friend? It is whether you can help in stopping another crime. He was still in possession of the gun. He clearly wanted to -- to go after people in the health care industry.

So the law is clear. There is no duty to come forward and say that my son did this, right? I mean, and -- or he may be a suspect in this. If you have actual knowledge that a felony has been committed, a federal law would -- and state law, most state laws would have you compel you to come forward.

But generally, if the cops if the police say, look, we're looking for this person, he may have committed this crime. There's no legal duty, only a moral obligation on friends and family. And that's sort of the gap that we fell into there.

I'm particularly focused on the family because they knew he withdrew. They knew he was in pain. They knew he was on meds. They knew he was in distress.

And then they see these pictures and, you know, any parent will tell you, you can -- you can, you know who your kid is, right? I mean, the eyebrows or the lips or the chin. You can tell who your kid is, even if you haven't seen him in six months.

TAPPER: And not only did people who knew him not turn him in. I mean, look at social media. There is a disturbing amount of support or empathy for this suspect, and some of its driven by anger that is understandable about the health insurance industry. And yet transferring it and turning it into admiration for somebody that is a suspected cold blooded killer is astounding.

Do you think prosecutors should be concerned about this sentiment, possibly working in favor of Mangione should he actually go to trial?

KAYYEM: I think it probably wont sway a jury because it likely won't come much into play. In other words, the jury will -- will probably not hear this. What I worry about is both the copycats. In other words, the sort of glorification or the of the cult status that he may be reaching amongst those who -- who may not like health care or the way health care is run in this country. And so you worry about people doing the same thing, going after CEOs, regardless of what your politics is.

The other is a larger statement about our country. I you know, we you and I have talked a lot about the normalization of violence. We don't like it in the political space. I don't like it from the right wing. I don't like it from people who might have progressive sentiments that I may even agree with as a public policy issue.

The normalization of violence is the way to come to some solution. Is damaging for -- for a democracy and is damaging for our, our, our civic -- civic discourse. And so I am shocked by it. I don't like it. And it is -- it is dangerous.

TAPPER: That Overton window keeps shifting.

Juliette Kayyem, thanks so much.

KAYYEM: Yeah.

TAPPER: More breaking news. We're closely watching an explosive wildfire in Malibu, California. The property and landmarks under threat as this fire currently burns out of control.

Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:28:42]

TAPPER: Just moments ago, we saw the suspect in the CEO murder loaded into an SUV, leaving the courthouse. Authorities are taking him back to prison in Pennsylvania. We'll have more coverage on that case in a moment.

But first, in our national lead, a look at California first responders trying to stop the Franklin Wildfire in Malibu. The blaze exploding in size overnight.

Getting so large the fire is altering weather conditions surrounding it. It has spread this fire across more than 2,500 acres around Malibu, with zero percent of the fire currently contained.

CNN's Veronica Miracle is on the ground for us with the latest warnings from officials.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Malibu scenic hills ablaze after a fast moving wildfire exploded overnight.

LYNDA MICHEL, FLED HOUSE SURROUNDED BY FIRE: From a 1 to 10m it was like a 15. Like scary.

MIRACLE: The Franklin Fire tripling in size in just one hour, at one point scorching the equivalent of five football fields every minute since it ignited late Monday evening, prompting evacuation orders.

MICHEL: Everything. All these mountains were covered in flames, just covered like you took a crayon and just colored everything.

MIRACLE: Linda Michel is a caretaker who lives on a property with horses in the evacuation zone. She says she awoke to a wall of flames surrounding the area and had to scramble to save the animals.

[16:30:04]

MICHEL: Woke everybody up. Got everybody in the car. It was all nobody had time to get dressed. Everybody jumped in the cars like, get out of here. And then after that, I must have had like 30 minutes to run around and, try to get the horses.

And we didn't know what we were going to do. Like, we could not leave them in the barn. Thank God we didn't leave them in the barn because the barn burned down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see the wind down there.

MIRACLE: The inferno, fueled by dry conditions and southern California's infamous Santa Ana winds, creating what fire officials call a, quote, particularly dangerous situation. Some wind gusts reaching 40 to 60 miles per hour. The flames destroying some homes and threatening businesses, even the iconic Malibu pier.

GABRIELLE SALGADO, PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: It has definitely been a stressful and very tiring night.

MIRACLE: Hundreds at nearby Pepperdine University had to shelter in place for hours in the campus library. Classes were canceled on Tuesday.

SALGADO: I called my friends, found whatever friends I had in the same residential hall as me, and I just packed a bag. We look out the window and you know the sky is red.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERONICA (on camera): And, Jake, you can see smoke behind me. Deep into the canyons, firefighters working furiously, using air drops to try and contain this fire. Right now they have zero percent containment. And as you can see, the winds have died down.

But there is concern those winds are going to pick back up again this evening. So they are racing against the clock to try and get this all contained and all settled -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Veronica Miracle in Malibu, thank you so much.

Let's bring in CNN meteorologist Chad Myers.

Now, Chad, so officials have warned about the wind speed being a factor here. What can you tell us about the fires movement?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: You know, high pressure right over the central part of the Great Basin. All of a sudden, that high pressure wants to push its winds out, and then the mountains get in the way. And then when the mountains get in the way, you start to get the canyons. And that's where this fire was in the Malibu canyon area, funneling those winds down like a like a wind tunnel, really.

Look at the fire storm here. This thing burned five and a half football fields every second. So, to the tune now of four square miles. And like Veronica said, the winds are going to pick back up tonight. Five and a half football fields in a minute for the time that where the winds were blowing and at times 93 miles per hour, they've died down to the 20s and 30s right now.

But there are air assets everywhere. I can count one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight helicopters or planes. Now dropping Phos-Chek or water in the Malibu Canyon area. So, they're getting a handle on it, but still 0 percent containment. It's going to take some time with the winds still blowing, Jake.

TAPPER: Is a fire like this unusual around this time of year, December?

MYERS: It is. It should be over by November. But now were into December. But it hasn't rained yet. When it rains, fire season will slow down. No, no rain yet, and none in the forecast. TAPPER: All right. Chad Myers, thanks so much.

In Syria today, sites strategically destroyed as the government of Israel tries to prevent terrorists from taking over that country. Coming up next, I'm asking an elected leader how much the U.S. should be doing to back Israel up if anything.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:37:22]

TAPPER: We have some breaking news for you because just moments ago we heard remarks from the defense attorney who is representing the suspect in killing that CEO. The client was denied bail today in Pennsylvania and is fighting extradition back to New York.

Let's run some of that for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS DICKEY, SUSPECT'S ATTORNEY: Well, what happened today is he could have. He -- there was a extradition proceeding. We did not, N-O- T, add that on there. Okay? Because if you're reporting that earlier that we did, that did not happen.

We did not waive extradition. We're contesting extradition. We're going to fight this along the rules, and with the constitutional protections that my client has. And that's what we're going to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Much more on the case coming up.

But let's turn now to our world lead. We have scenes from western Syria now as its naval fleet was completely destroyed by Israeli strikes. That's according to Israel, just part of Israel's punishing response following the collapse of brutal Syrian dictator Bashar al Assad's regime. Israel says that the airstrikes, coupled with the decision to move past a buffer zone into Syria, are all part of Israel's effort to wipe out the threats to Israel from Syria.

CNN's Jomana Karadsheh is in a Damascus suburb where Syrians are taking in a moment of massive change, hoping it is for the best. She spoke to one Syrian who lost nearly everything during Assad's brutal reign.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What's left of Daraa tells of the horrors that unfolded here every corner scarred by a ruthless regimes fight for survival. This Damascus suburb rose up peacefully, demanding freedom. More than a decade on, a shattered Daraa and its people are finally free.

This was for our children, Firas (ph) tells me. It's so they don't have to live under the tyrant's rule. Her story of loss and pain, so unfathomable for us, yet so common in this place that for years endured some of the most brutal tactics of the Assad regime besieged, starved and bombed into surrender.

Firas says they came out asking for freedom and they were met with bullets and tanks, she says we're not terrorists. And they did this. And imagine, she says, there were women and children living in these homes.

So many men, like her husband Mazen (ph) detained and disappeared. Two years later, a released prisoner told her he saw him in jail. They beat him so much his wounded leg was infected. He was in so much pain, she says. There was no medical care in prison and because of all he was going through, he lost his mind. The prisoner last saw him taken away, crying and screaming hysterically.

[16:40:02]

She went from one detention center to the next, searching for him until they broke the news to her in the most cruel of ways. They handed her his belongings and told her to register his death.

There are no words to describe how I was feeling when I left, she says. I was holding on to the hope he would be released and her family would be reunited. They didn't even give me his body.

This is the last photo she has of Mazen and his youngest boy, Raif (ph), doesn't remember his dad, nor was six and so attached to his father. Every day he would wait by the door for him to come back.

When I would hear someone calling Baba, dad, it was torment for me, Firas says, what did these children do to be deprived of their father? She has to be strong for her boys. She says she is all they have.

Her father also disappeared into the black holes of Assad's jails. Like her husband. Their only crime, she says, was being from Daraa.

She says, I'm just one of thousands and thousands of stories, and that's just in Daraa. And just imagine how many more there are across Syria.

With the end of this dark chapter in their history, a new life, and new Syria emerges from the rubble of their broken lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARADSHEH (on camera): You know, Jake, in 13 years, 300,000 Syrians were killed, 130,000 at least forcibly disappeared, millions forced out of their homes. And you speak to Syrians like, Firas there. And she says that sacrifice, all that they lost, it's worth it if it means that a new generation of Syrians is going to inherit a new Syria, a free Syria. And they say now it is up to these new rulers, these rebel groups and opposition groups to ensure that that actually happens -- Jake.

TAPPER: Yeah, let's hope it is a new and free Syria.

Jomana Karadsheh in Damascus, thank you so much.

Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut is here. He's on the Senate foreign relations committee.

Senator, always good to see you.

So over the last two days, Israel says it launched nearly 500 airstrikes throughout Syria. Turkey is destroying several trucks loaded with weapons from Assad's regime in northeastern Syria. The U.S. struck 75 ISIS targets there over the weekend.

What are your biggest concerns as you watch this all play out?

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Well, there's a long list of concerns, but the United States and Israel share some major concerns that as chaos reigns inside Syria, some very dangerous people could get their hands on some very dangerous weapons, including chemical weapons.

And so, it is in our interest to either destroy or guarantee the security of those weapons of mass destruction before they either get into the hands of al Qaeda or ISIS, or perhaps this new coalition government about whom the jury is very much still out.

This new group of rebels in charge of the capital obviously has longstanding ties to al Qaeda and to other extremist groups. We are ready to take them at their word that they have reformed, and they are ready to build an inclusive government that protects everyone in Syria. But you have to prepare for the worst. And that's in part what these strikes are designed to do.

TAPPER: So in a statement this weekend, you said, quote, I urge all parties to support an inclusive political process that protects the rights of all Syrian communities and works towards a free, secure, democratic future. I don't think I need to tell you that there aren't exactly a whole bunch of Democratic Arab states.

How is this going to work? And what role should the United States play in this process, if any?

MURPHY: Yeah. Listen, I think we need to understand that there is no history of democracy inside Syria, and we certainly have made mistakes in the past in which we have tried to push on to countries with no history of democracy, a western style form of self-governance.

So I don't think there's any shame in taking some time to make sure that the voices of the Syrian people are heard. I think it's important, though, for the United States to have a voice here. And as you know, Jake, this group has a terrorist designation. I worry that we're going to let that terrorist designation stop the United States from being, at the very least, in some conversation with a group that's going to have a lot to say about U.S. interests in the region.

So we've got leverage. Obviously, we have troops there. We have long supported the Kurdish forces in northeast Syria, but we should probably get into some kind of conversation pretty soon with this group. It doesn't necessarily need we need to we need to lift the terrorist designation.

But the Turks are talking to them. The Arabs are talking to them. The Russians are talking to them. The Europeans may soon be talking to them. I'm not sure that the United States should stand on the sidelines.

[16:45:03]

TAPPER: Yeah. Just let's talk about this, because the group you're talking about, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, called, HTS, the U.S. right now, we're told the Biden administration is not considering changing the terrorist designation. White House national security spokesman John Kirby says they're saying all the right things, but the guy used to be the head of it, used to be a leader of al Qaeda. Actions need to be words.

When you say that the U.S. needs to be part of the conversation, what does that look like? What does that mean? And how much do you think that this group does have the best interests of the Syrian people writ large at heart?

MURPHY: Oh, I don't think we know the answer to that question. That's purely speculative. Obviously, it's in their interest to say things today that keep their potential future adversaries and enemies at bay. So the United States obviously has forces inside Syria that are primarily designed at fighting ISIS. And, you know, we need to keep those forces at the ready should even more chaos break out.

All I'm saying is that we if everybody else is talking to this group, the United States should be at that table. I don't think that needs to include a full lifting of the terrorist designation. That terrorist designation comes with lots of other penalties on individuals who are a member of the organization. But, you know, for far too long, the United States has often refused to talk to our adversaries, and that has ended up with deals being cut without the United States that don't accrue to our national security interests.

TAPPER: Just for one second, I'd like to take a step back and look at what happened on October 7th, 2023. Since Hamas attacked Israel, the leadership of Hamas has been wiped out, the leadership of Hezbollah has wiped out. Bashar al-Assad's government has been -- has fallen.

I'm wondering if the October 7th attack is one of the most consequential miscalculations by the Iranians that that you can even imagine?

MURPHY: Well, and obviously, you're seeing, you know, Hezbollah deeply weakened inside Lebanon as well. Listen, this is an opportunity to strike a real death blow to Iranian interests in the region. And so this is a critical period in which its important for the non Hezbollah aligned interests inside Lebanon to set aside their differences and create a true governing structure.

It's important for the Israelis, along with their partners in the region, to find a Palestinian led government that marginalizes Hamas forever inside Gaza. And it's important for us to be at the table to make sure that we have a Syrian-led process that leads to a government aligned with the interests of the Syrian people, not outside interests like Iran.

So, yes, this moment presents an opportunity to make political decisions standing on top of the military decision making that perhaps fundamentally weakens Iran in the region for decades to come.

TAPPER: Democratic Senator Chris Murphy, thanks so much, sir.

Coming up, the UnitedHealthcare CEO murder and his killer exposing some of the vitriol and frustration with the health insurance industry.

Stay with us.

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[16:52:15]

TAPPER: Back in our national lead and the signs of outrage popping up against the health insurance industry unleashed in the wake of the killing of the UnitedHealthcare CEO.

This banner hung from an overpass over I-83 in Baltimore reads "deny, defend, depose, health care for all". Those first few words are a reference to what the NYPD says was written on the bullets used in the killing -- terms used to illustrate how insurance companies fight patients over denied claims, and that's just a small snapshot -- snapshot of how some are responding to the murder, not with outrage or sadness over the killing, but rather with support for the suspect and for anger at health insurance companies.

We turn now to Angela Watercutter of "WIRED".

Angela, you have a fascinating new piece called, quote, "The Internet's obsession with Luigi Mangione signals a major shift".

Now, obviously, I just want to make sure, for the record, neither you nor I support murder. Obviously, this is not something that were applauding, but this is a phenomenon and we can't ignore it.

What struck you as new in these online responses?

ANGELA WATERCUTTER, WIRED SENIOR EDITOR: I think it was just a matter of seeing the sort of instant response -- I think I guess there was a sort of --of the suspect even before anybody was named or identified. It was one of those things where on the Internet, that we knew that this terrible thing had happened, but everybody was able to sort of project an identity or sort of an ideal onto the suspect long before he had even been identified or found.

TAPPER: And the praise for Mangione for this accused murderer, its not only in the digital world. We saw a lookalike contest in New York. People are selling things or were selling things with Mangione's image on Etsy? WATERCUTTER: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was -- theres also fanfic online. There's a lot of different ways that people are sort of showing support in this case. And, yeah, I think that a lot of people probably who have had struggles with health care, you know, sort of identify with it and have just sort of found this as a -- as a way to sort of vent those -- those frustrations.

TAPPER: You write, quote, what gets sad about him may seem small compared -- I'm sorry. What gets said about him may seem small compared to what the response to his actions says about everyone else. What do you think this says about everyone else?

What does -- what do these reactions say about this moment in our culture? Is it -- is it a desperation when it comes to the behemoth of the health insurance industry or the medical industry at large? Is it is it a nihilism in the culture? What do you see?

WATERCUTTER: I think it could be a little bit of nihilism. I think it is sort of a frustration and a desperation of not really knowing how to express these things, when you find yourself in health care situations that seem to have no answer or no end.

[16:55:13]

And so this, this sort of terrible event happens and everybody kind of has something to point to, has something to sort of rally around. And when you see sort of repeated instances of this happening online, you know, this happens all the time, like people just get sort of caught up in it and it sort of perpetuates itself.

And, you know, then with the arrest on Monday and everything that's happened since, I think its only sort of added to the groundswell and added to -- yeah. Added to what people are saying about -- about this case.

TAPPER: Angela Watercutter from "WIRED", thank you so much. Appreciate it. Good to see you.

We just heard from the CEO murder suspect's defense attorney. Plus, we saw the suspect himself moved from court back to a jail cell. Much more on the fast moving developments in this case ahead.

Plus, brand new photos of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell after the 82 year old took a hard fall earlier today. We're back in a moment.

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