Return to Transcripts main page
The Lead with Jake Tapper
Sources: Authorities Execute As Many As Three Search Warrants In NY As Part Of CEO Murder Investigation; ABC Report: N.Y. Grand Jury Hearing Evidence In CEO Killer Case; Report: Suspect's Mother Believed He Was Working In San Fran; N.J. Officials & Residents Demand Answers On Drone Sightings; Rep. Josh Gottheimer, (D-NJ), Is Interviewed About Drone Sightings, Bipartisan Drone Act; DOJ Watchdog: No Undercover FBI Agents At Jan 6 Riot; Trump: I'll Pardon Some Jan. 6 Rioters Maybe In "First 9 Minutes"; Trump: Reducing Grocery Prices Will Be "Very Hard". Trump Invites China's Xi Jinping To Attend His Inauguration; Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-TX), Is Interviewed About 32 House Members Who Are Military Veterans Endorse Hegseth; Biden Faces Pressure To Grant More Pardons, Clemency. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired December 12, 2024 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Those comments from one New Jersey mayor as weeks of mysterious drone sightings across the Garden State are prompting new security concerns. Where did these drones come from? Who's controlling them? And why are they spending time over U.S. Military sites, not to mention Trump's New Jersey golf course?
Plus, President Biden setting a new record commuting the sentences of 1500 people in one day. But some Democrats argue Biden still is not going far enough in using his sweeping clemency and pardon powers granted him as president of the United States. And there are some glaring injustices that he can correct if he sees fit.
We're going to start this hour, however, with breaking news. Authorities have executed as many as three search warrants in New York as part of the investigation into the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. That's according to sources who tell CNN that one of those warrants was for the burner phone found near the shooting scene, although it's not clear if investigators have yet been able to crack the code to get into the phone. Let's get straight to CNN's Brynn Gingras.
And Brynn, what more do we know about these search warrants?
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, right, Jake. So this is all part of the investigative process. We know from sources telling Kara Scannell and myself that at least three search warrants have been conducted in New York as part of this investigation on evidence we have already learned about. You just mentioned at least one of those pieces of evidence, which is that burner phone, which again, authorities found on that getaway route where they say the suspected killer went as they left the scene of that Hilton hotel in midtown Manhattan. As you just said, it's unclear if they were actually able to get into the phone or what sort of information they were able to glean from that burner phone.
We already have reported they got a partial fingerprint which yesterday the NYPD commissioner said they were able to trace back to Luigi Mangione's fingerprint that they took there in Pennsylvania. Another search warrant was conducted on a backpack. If you remember, that backpack was found in Central Park. We know inside that backpack, which they would have needed a search warrant to do to get inside, was monopoly money and some clothes. And we also know searches have been conducted.
We knew one was happening inside Brian Thompson's hotel room where he was staying, the victim, of course, in this case at a hotel across the street from the Hilton Hotel. And we knew there was one conducted to get all that great surveillance video, that money shot, as they called it, from that hostel where they believe Mangione stayed on the Upper West Side before the killing. So again, this is all part of the investigative process.
And what we are also learning now, according to ABC, is that the grand jury is starting to hear evidence in this case. If you remember, there is a felony arrest warrant issued from New York. But now the DA here in Manhattan needs to secure an indictment. So evidence is now going in front of the grand jury, including some of this evidence that we just laid out for you here. It's possible they might also learn about that fake ID.
They might also learn about all that surveillance video, might even hear from a witness. If you remember that alarming video of the morning this shooting happened, there was a person who was seen sort of leaving the frame of that video as that shooting was happening. It's possible grand jury might hear from that person. It's very unclear.
What we do know, though, Jake, is the next time Luigi Mangione is going to be back in court, that hearing has been set now for December 30. So, we will learn more about when that extradition might take place in really just a couple of weeks.
TAPPER: Brynn Gingras, thank you so much. Excellent --
GINGRAS: Yes.
TAPPER: -- reporting as always.
Let's bring in CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller. We also have with us Elie Honig, former Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York.
John, now that these search warrants have been executed, what evidence do you think investigators are going to be able to get from the backpack and the burner phone?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, the burner phone, as Brynn said, you know, requires them to be able to get into it. But it could tell us something really important, which is on the video of him as he approaches the site where he's allegedly about to murder Brian Thompson, the CEO. You see him walking with the hood up and the mask on with the phone up to his ear, and he appears to be talking to somebody moments before the killing. The burner phone could tell us what number that was, who might be the subscriber, who was on the other end of it, and that could be highly relevant.
As far as other items, though, the search warrants that they obtained would be very likely for the laptop that he was found with, that he was sitting with at that back table in McDonald's, because you really want to know not just what's in the laptop, but what was he doing at that moment in that McDonald's in that laptop? Is it open to a flight section where he might be looking to fly to a country with no extradition treaty with America, or was it open to the information page about the CEO of another company who could be maybe a next victim? Really important to get into that. The note that was in his pocket, though, made this reference. It said, my tech is pretty locked down.
I work in engineering, so probably not much in there indicating that this note is the note I meant for you. And the spiral notebook, you know, has most of the planning in it. So, intriguing.
[17:05:07]
TAPPER: Yes, my tech is pretty locked down, suggesting that any possible accomplices or anyone else he was dealing with, you know, good luck finding them, because I know what I'm doing, and I've deleted it all.
Elie, Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg seems confident that they have the suspect accused of killing Brian Thompson. This is what he told ABC News. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALVIN BRAGG, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: This is a profoundly disturbing, as we've alleged, murder. And, yes, we would not charge the person if we didn't think it was the person, and we're prepared to go forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: According to sources that spoke with ABC, New York prosecutors are already presenting evidence to a grand jury. So what happens next?
ELIE HONIG, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHER DISTRICT OF N.Y.: So prosecutors are clearly moving quickly here, Jake. What will happen probably in the next few days is the grand jury will vote. They will almost certainly vote on an indictment based on the original arrest charges. It will probably include a charge of second degree murder and other charges. That indictment will then be signed by the Governor of New York, Kathy Hochul, who will lodge something called a governor's warrant, send it over to Pennsylvania. That will be the basis on which they'll have the extradition hearing. When that extradition hearing happens, all prosecutors have to show is this is the guy who has been charged. Surely prosecutors will be able to make that showing. At that point, the extradition will be complete and Luigi Mangione will be sent back to Manhattan, where he will then be arraigned, and he will be underway on his criminal proceedings on the murder charge.
TAPPER: Elie, any thoughts about the search warrant?
HONIG: Yes. So, it's interesting to me that they actually got a search warrant for the backpack. It tells me they're being extraordinarily careful because ordinarily, if police find abandoned property in Central Park, they don't necessarily need a search warrant to go through it. But rightly, prosecutors and police are taking every precaution here to make sure they're covered.
TAPPER: All right, thanks to both you. Appreciate it.
With us now is Megan Cassidy, who covers crime and criminal justice for the San Francisco Chronicle.
Megan, thanks so much for joining us. So you broke the story that we all read about the existence of a missing person report that Luigi Mangione's mother filed earlier this year. Tell us about that. She believed he was in San Francisco?
MEGAN CASSIDY, CRIME AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE REPORTER, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE: Right. That's -- I mean, that's what it seems like. We really only knew about one link to San Francisco prior to that, which was what NYPD said on that very first day that he had some ties to San Francisco. So what the missing person's report tells us is that his mother had not spoken to him since July earlier this year. She called in for him missing on November 18.
She believed that he was working in the city, apparently on an address on Montgomery Street at a company called TrueCar. TrueCar, however, had said that he has not worked for them since 2023, and that they did not appear to ever have an address at the address that was listed in this missing person's report. Additionally, the phone number that the mother had was out of service.
TAPPER: What are the San Francisco police telling you, if anything, about the missing person report? Did they ever find or have any contact with Luigi Mangioni?
CASSIDY: They are not telling us anything. No. They are referring everybody to the New York Police Department. You know, trying to be deferential with that. But it is -- there's still a lot of puzzle pieces missing.
We don't know if he actually was in San Francisco. We don't know, you know, other than the fact that there was a TrueCar location here. Why his mother would have believed that he was here in San Francisco. And police really are not telling us much now.
TAPPER: But the TrueCar in San Francisco said he had worked for them, just not since 2023, right?
CASSIDY: Right. Not since 2023. And it's unclear if he ever worked at the location here in San Francisco. We believe that he was, you know -- his last known address was in Honolulu. Seemed like he was working at TrueCar during that time.
But we have -- we don't know if he ever worked at the location here.
TAPPER: What is TrueCar? What do they do?
CASSIDY: They're an online car sale company. He was a data engineer for them.
TAPPER: Interesting. All right, Megan Cassidy, keep up the great work. Thanks for joining us.
Who is responsible for the mysterious drone spotting flying over New Jersey and are there legitimate security concerns? We're going to break down all of those details next. Plus what President-elect Trump says he will do within nine minutes of returning to the White House.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:14:01]
TAPPER: In our national lead, New Jersey residents and officials want answers following weeks of drone sightings across the state. Members of the U.S. Intelligence community testify before Congress today that they do not suspect foreign involvement. The FBI and Department of Homeland Security say it appears that, quote, "many of the reported sightings are actually manned aircraft operating lawfully," unquote. And the state's governor, Phil Murphy, says there is no threat to public safety. But despite all of that, people want to know what is in the air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So bizarre. I go, everyone's freaking out now. I think it's kind of spooky.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: My next guest is calling on the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security and the FAA for an immediate public briefing. New Jersey Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer joins me now. He's also running for governor, we should note.
Congressman, so you sent a letter to those agencies asking for more information. Have you heard back from any of them?
[17:15:04]
REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ), GOV. CANDIDATE: They appear ready to brief. And I've asked them, I've had private briefings with DHS, Homeland Security and the FBI. But listen, the public has a right to know what all these drones are. I mean, I will tell you this, through all my briefings that I've had. I'm not concerned about any imminent threat to public safety. And that's true. But you know, as you just saw with the video that was played, people are really concerned about what they're seeing.
And I think it's time that these federal agencies that are responsible for this come clean and say what they know to the public. And of course, I think it's really time, Jake, to give law enforcement the tools they need to stop this next time and to understand what's out there, make sure these drones are not operating in places they shouldn't be, like over reservoirs or police departments or of course, military bases. And I think we've got a lot of work to do here.
TAPPER: What do you make of the FBI and Homeland Security statement that many of the sightings are actually sightings of planes that are operating lawfully?
GOTTHEIMER: Listen, there's been so many sightings reported that I'm sure some of them are manned aircraft. But based on the videos that I've been sent and obviously the ones you've probably seen and the calls I've received from some of the families I represent, there's definitely -- and I heard the state police as well, there are definitely a lot of drones out there. And listen, drones are supposed to be registered. You know, it can't just be the Wild West when it comes to drones. They can't just be flying anywhere.
And people have a right to know what's out there and to have their security protected. And all we're asking for from the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI is they come out with this. I've got legislation that I've introduced to make sure that we impose strict penalties on people who are misusing drones, either with equipping them with weapons or of course, flying them in places they shouldn't be flown. So, you know, given this new technology is growing every day. We want to make sure that our communities are safe and people shouldn't have to worry about this.
TAPPER: Let's talk about that legislation because you helped spearhead the Bipartisan Drone Act. Part of that bill calls for a two-year prison sentence for anyone who uses a drone to interfere with emergency response activity or military operations. Would any of the activities reported in Jersey have been banned under that bill if it had been law?
GOTTHEIMER: Well, so my understanding so far, and this as you know, is why we've called for not only an investigation of all these -- of the drone activity and proper monitoring and that the local law enforcement and state have the equipment to monitor. But so far, my understanding is there's been sightings in certain places where law enforcement is near state helicopters, which would be could pose a direct threat. Obviously they're not allowed to operate near airports and so or near reservoirs. So, so far my understanding is there's been limited cases of direct interference or threats. But the point is, Jake, you got to make it very clear to people who are operating these drones, many of them appear to be unlicensed, that you can't just fly these wherever you want and especially put others in danger of public safety in danger.
Right. There's good uses for drones. Right?
TAPPER: Yes.
GOTTHEIMER: You know, and then there's play -- then there's the Wild West.
TAPPER: Yes. I mean, we use them in journalism all the time. What role do you think the government should have in regulating drones, if any?
GOTTHEIMER: Well, certainly, as I said, you know, and what my legislation has called for is when it comes to you want to use it, as you say, for media purposes or public safety at a sporting event, that's one thing. And those are registered, licensed drones and operators, right? When you have equipment that is not registered and you can't figure out who's operating it or where it's from, that's where I have a real problem, especially if it goes over a military base, near first responders in their areas, over reservoirs which could threaten public safety. That's where I have where I draw the line. And this is where you want the FBI, Homeland Security, the FAA, those bodies that have regulatory authority right now to come clean with the public and give them more information so that people don't have to worry about this.
They think people have got enough on their minds, right? They shouldn't have to worry about things flying around that they don't know who they belong to. And that local law enforcement and state law enforcement should also have that information, which is why I've called for resources to be given to local and state law enforcement to be able to monitor drone activity.
TAPPER: Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer of the great state of New Jersey, thanks so much.
The new report released today, the disputes claims by Republicans that the January 6th insurrection was provoked by the FBI. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:24:04]
TAPPER: We're back with our law and justice lead. The Justice Department inspector general today revealed that there were no undercover FBI employees at the U.S. Capitol during the January 6 riot. The watchdog report rejects speculation from numerous Republican members of Congress such as Clay Higgins, as well as right wing media personalities who have suggested that the violence of Capitol was provoked by FBI agents. CNN's Evan Perez is here with more.
Evan, walk us through what else this report says.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, the big finding here is that this claim that the FBI was behind the violence, that's just not true. Now, they did find that there were 26 paid informants working for the -- who were being paid by the FBI. These were members of the Proud Boys and the Three Percenters, other groups who were behind some of that violence, they were in attendance at the January 6th rallies. There were three of these people who were actually tasked by the FBI to collect information and provide information about some of the people who were going to these rallies. And at least one case, one person did enter the Capitol. The others were outside of the Capitol.
[17:25:05]
We should note that the FBI -- that the inspector general found that the FBI had additional information in some of its field offices and didn't really canvass and ask them to send in additional information ahead of the January 6 that stopped the steal rally. And so the inspector general said that there potentially would have been more information that could have been shared and perhaps could have been given to the Capitol Police so they were prepared for what happened that day. It's important, of course, to note that the FBI says that they don't necessarily agree with all the findings, but that they're making changes to prevent this from happening again. Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Evan Perez, thanks so much.
Let's bring in the panel to discuss a lot of stuff going on in the news. Thanks one and all for being here.
So in his interview with Time magazine, President-elect Trump said one of his first acts in office will be to pardon January 6th criminals, saying, quote, "I'll be looking at J6 early on, maybe the first nine minutes," meaning the first nine minutes of his administration. He also said, quote, "I'm going to do case by case. And if they were nonviolent, I think they've been greatly punished. I'm going to look if there's some that really were out of control."
Jonah, Trump's reaffirming what he said he would do during the campaign and the American people elected him. But what's your reaction that this is, you know, a priority in the first nine minutes of his presidency?
JONAH GOLDBERG, CO-FOUNDER AND EDITOR IN CHIEF, THE DISPATCH: Look, I mean, these guys were the Trump Tabernacle Choir at his rallies, right? The January 6 guys.
TAPPER: Right.
GOLDBERG: But there are a lot of caveats to this, right? He is -- there are a lot of people who think everybody's going to get a pardon. And he's saying if they were nonviolent, if they were excessive, I'm going to go case by case. I think it has the potential of pissing off a lot of people who think no one should get a pardon and pissing off a lot of people who think everyone should get a pardon. So it's more fraught for him than I think people are appreciating.
KAREN FINNEY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Can I just mention one thing, though, that's interesting about this? It does sort of lay the foundation for the argument about why Joe Biden, if he's considering these sort of preemptive safe harbor pardons, you could make the argument that says, well, if President Trump is going to pardon one side of the J6, then President Biden should protect the people who did their civic duty, came forward, testified, whether it was, you know, in these various legal proceedings, because they are on the list that Trump has said he's going to go after.
TAPPER: Although some of them have said they don't want it because they didn't --
FINNEY: Correct.
LANCE TROVER, FMR. SPOKESMAN GOV. DOUG BURGUM 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Joe Biden has rewritten the whole pardon spectrum here. I mean, we pardoned his son for 11 years worth of crimes last week. So, he -- look, this is not a surprise. He said he was going to do it during the campaign. I take solace in the fact that he's going to go case by case.
I agree with you. I think a lot of people think that they're going to get pardons. It sounds like they're not. But I mean, Joe Biden kind of rewrote the whole pardon narrative now. Everybody's getting one. He did 1,500. Come on.
FINNEY: I mean, you can only get so much mileage on that. I mean, Donald Trump is a convicted criminal here, for God's sake.
TAPPER: Well, just the --
TROVER: Well, Hunter Biden was a convicted criminal and he pardoned for 11 years worth of crime.
TAPPER: Just in terms of the 1,500, that's individuals who had been furloughed or transferred to home detention --
TROVER: Right. Correct.
TAPPER: -- during COVID. And we'll get into that later in the show. But let me stick with the Time magazine thing.
TROVER: Yes. Sure.
TAPPER: Trump was asked whether his presidency would be a, quote, "failure if grocery prices didn't come down." And he said, quote, "I don't think so. Look, they got them up. I'd like to bring them down. It's hard to bring things down once they're up.
You know, it's very hard. But I think they will." I love the difference between what politicians sound like before an election and after they win. You were spokesman for Governor Doug Burgum's --
TROVER: Yes.
TAPPER: -- presidential campaign, what do you make of this? I mean, this after the election thing is honest. Not necessarily the same tone we heard during the campaign.
TROVER: We know that Donald Trump to be nothing but honest. FINNEY: Right.
TROVER: Look, I look at the polling that's come out, CNN had yesterday. I think the voters are giving him a wide stretch of latitude here in terms of what he's willing to do. And I think -- look, I think he's -- Trump says a lot of things, but we've got the tax cuts package coming. He's got to address the border. I think he's going to tackle a lot of these things.
And my guess is prices will come down.
TAPPER: Why do you think they're going to come down?
TROVER: I just -- look, I think the economy is continuing to improve. It's improving now before he gets into office. We're going to have a tax cut package, it's going to drive more money into the economy and people are going to --
FINNEY: Although in his interview with Kristen Welker when she said on NBC, well, what about if your tariffs don't bring prices down? And he said, well -- he said he couldn't promise. And she said, well, would you do anything to go after corporations if they're going to still price gouge? And he kind of -- he was pretty clearly not into that.
TAPPER: I think, again, gave a very honest answer. I can't predict anything. I can't predict the future.
FINNEY: I can't promise. It was like quick --
TAPPER: Yes, who says?
FINNEY: -- who are you? What have you done? What have you done with Donald Trump?
GOLDBERG: So on the expectations of voters, our colleague, Kristen Soltis Anderson, has some interesting data on this about what voters expect will happen and what they want to have happen.
TAPPER: Yes.
GOLDBERG: What they want to have happen is booming economy, prices going down, all that kind of stuff. What they expect to happen is tariffs to go in but they don't want tariffs to go in, right? There's not a priority for them. The -- technically tariffs aren't necessarily inflationary because inflation is a different thing economically. But they do raise prices. And it will be very interesting to see if he does across the board tariffs or anything like it and prices go up, where the cognitive dissonance manifests itself in terms of the adjustments to policy that we're doing.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Speaking of cognitive dissonance, President- elect Trump has invited Chinese leader Xi Jinping to his inauguration. Let's take a listen to what President Trump -- President-elect Trump said earlier today about other possible invitees. Oh, I'm sorry, we don't have this on. I was even thinking about inviting certain people to the inauguration, and some people said, wow, that is a little risky, isn't it? And I said, maybe it is. We'll see. We'll see what happens. What do you think?
KAREN FINNEY, CNN COMMENTATOR: Yes. I --
TAPPER: President Xi at the inauguration?
FINNEY: Yes, that really sends a signal. You're going tough on Xi, right? You've got him right there seated next to you on the podium. I don't know about that.
TAPPER: What do you think? I mean, that's -- if a Democratic president did that, then --
LANCE TROVER, FMR. SPOKESMAN, GOV. DOUG BURGUM 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: I leave it to Donald Trump to break political convention here. I mean, I kind of like it. I mean, on one hand, OK, so he doesn't show up, and he's thumbing his nose at the United States, but if he does show, well, he's kind of bending to Donald Trump's will. That would be my argument.
FINNEY: So you don't invite your friends, but you do invite --
TROVER: Well, first off -- first off, it's -- it's our biggest enemy in the world. I don't think there's anything wrong with starting anew with a fresh take with somebody like Xi Jinping, who's our biggest, quote unquote, enemy in the world right there. It's -- it's a new form of diplomacy. I -- I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Is he going to come? Probably not.
FINNEY: I mean, it set -- well, it sets a whole different tone of diplomacy.
GOLDBERG: I just like to imagine the amount of chain smoking that erupted at the Secret Service when this came out.
TAPPER: Another issue that came up during the campaign and this interview was issues having to do with trans Americans. According to data from Ad-Impact, Republicans spent a total of at least $215 million on ads attacking the trans community during the campaign. I want to read part of this from the "Time Magazine" interview. The interviewer asks, in 2016, you said that transgender people could use whatever bathroom they chose.
And this is me interjecting, Jake here, but there was even like a little video of Caitlyn Jenner using the -- the bathroom at Trump Tower in 2016. Do you still feel this way? The interviewer asks, and Trump replies in part, quote, we're talking about a very small number of people and we're talking about it and it gets massive coverage and it's not a lot of people. I mean, it gets massive coverage. You ran $215 million worth of ads on it.
FINNEY: Yes, it gets massive coverage and it definitely dug into people's minds. It's interesting though that he says, which was a Democratic talking point, which was --
TAPPER: Which was a very small number.
FINNEY: It's a very small number of people.
TAPPER: Yes.
FINNEY: I mean, look, it is a shame that people were, and we're going to see more of this in the Trump years, were demonized as a way, as part of a political strategy. And as we know, people are feeling those effects all across the country. People who are trans, who are living in communities that are now hostile to them, and that's endangering young people's lives.
GOLDBERG: Yes, so I have a slightly different take on it, but I don't know what all the different ads that Trump campaigned on and that they came out with ads that were really demonizing trans people. That's bad. The ad they played the most --
TAPPER: Right.
GOLDBERG: -- and spent the most on was that one just quoting Kamala Harris, talking about --
TAPPER: Just video of her talking. Yes.
GOLDBERG: Right. Giving free surgeries to criminal, illegal immigrants in jail.
TAPPER: Well, I don't think they were illegal immigrants. I think, but they were criminals.
GOLDBERG: OK. So the point is, if the message of that was less anti- trans than the people who just want to make the point about trans stuff. It was more about, here is this boutique liberal who has an elite agenda and is not concerned about grocery prices and that kind of stuff. That was really the point of that tagline. And the brilliance of it is that it also worked for people who really worked up about the trans stuff, but I think it worked on a lot of other people who were -- who were looking at something else.
TAPPER: And also who didn't know who Kamala Harris was and this helped define her for them.
FINNEY: And she -- they didn't have a good answer for it, by the way.
TROVER: I read this as he was kind of just pushing it. It's going to be a state's issue. I mean, so he says it's nothing, he's not going to focus on. Yes, he ran on it, but I think he's like pushing it back to the states, which is mostly the argument out there. But this is like an -- this really -- this is like an 85 percent issue out there with voters. I saw multiple polls on when it comes to this issue.
TAPPER: When it comes to bathrooms and sports, yes.
TROVER: Yes. It is like --
TAPPER: Not rights to exist, et cetera.
TROVER: Yes, no, no, no, no. Absolutely. I think everybody agrees. Yes.
TAPPER: All right. Thanks one and all. Appreciate it.
[17:33:55]
He has spent days wooing Republican senators on Capitol Hill. Today, Trump's pick for Secretary of Defense met with his first Democratic senator. How did that go for Pete Hegseth? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: And returning to our Politics Lead, Pete Hegseth, Donald Trump's controversial pick for Secretary of Defense once again, he's making the rounds on Capitol Hill. Today, he met with Senator John Fetterman of the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. This is his first meeting with a Democratic senator after a series of meetings with Republicans. Today's meeting comes in the wake of a new CNN K-File report showing that Hegseth called the idea of gays openly serving in the U.S. military part of what he deems a, quote, Marxist agenda. We'll have more on that in a few moments. But here's what Fetterman had to say after today's meeting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): We've had a conversation. And that's -- that's part of the process. And that's the thing. I'm going to follow the process. I'm going to listen to what my colleagues on the other side continue to say and how they evaluate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Joining us now, Republican Congressman Dan Crenshaw of Texas, a member of the House Intelligence Committee and a veteran himself. And you are one of 32 military veterans, we should know, Congressman, serving in the House who have signed a letter to Senate leaders endorsing Hegseth for Secretary of Defense. I wonder why you wouldn't want to wait for the FBI background to check to come back.
REP. DAN CRENSHAW (R-TX), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Well, look, he's -- he's a public figure. By -- by the way, he's the only nominee. I've even said anything about. And I know him a little bit. And I know he answers calls and I know he listens. I know that some of his priorities are -- are -- are my priorities as well. You know, make the -- make the military a lethal institution. That's it.
Don't focus on anything else. Get rid of woke and DEI nonsense that we've seen plague certain areas of our military. And I think that's OK. A little bit of a culture shift. And -- and somebody who listens to people like me. So I think that's why we signed that letter. I think maybe some of the tarnishing has been unfair. It's nothing new. All right, this guy's already a public figure. And, look, is that -- is that part of the process? Yes, that is part of the process. You know, to -- to go through this. Welcome to politics.
[17:40:10]
But I -- I think he represents for a lot of us a -- a welcome shift in -- in how that institution is led. And I think that's OK.
TAPPER: A new report from CNN's K-File team highlights that Hegseth said that allowing gays to serve openly in the military reflects what Hegseth called a Marxist agenda. Listen to what he said just earlier this year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP'S PICK FOR DEFENSE SECRETARY: Now you just have the absurdity of I have two mommies, and I'm so proud to show them that I can wear the uniform, too. So the -- it's just like everything else the Marxists and the leftists have done. At first it was camouflaged nicely, and now they're just -- they're just open about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: I -- I -- I don't really know what to say. What -- what's your reaction?
CRENSHAW: I'm not sure. I think -- I think life as a commentator is very different than -- than life when you're actually a policymaker. I'm not sure he ever envisioned the -- this next step. And, look, that -- that's a question senators are going to have to ask him. Is that -- is that my priority, like that -- that particular issue, when it comes to -- to -- to military doctrine and -- and -- and fixing our institution? Not really.
My main issue is the lethality of the force, and I know that's -- that's his main issue, hence our support. And, you know, and that's probably as much as I'll say because, look, I'm not a senator. And these are -- these are going to be questions that senators have to ask and answer for themselves.
TAPPER: Do you think gays serving openly in the military makes the military less safe, less lethal?
CRENSHAW: No, no, we haven't seen any evidence of that. And I -- look, if I'm -- if I'm a betting man here, I doubt he's going to make any policy changes on that particular front anyway. The policy changes we'd be looking for are, say, look, what we shouldn't be doing is allowing transgender surgeries on service members and having the taxpayer pay for it and making sure they're -- they're unable to actually deploy and fulfill their duties.
And that's -- that's always the question. Are you able to fulfill your duties, and -- or -- or are you compromising the ability of others to fulfill their duties as a result of your lifestyle? And if the answer is no, then fine. But if the answer is yes, then we should -- should absolutely be against it, and that's just one example.
TAPPER: Let's move on to other matters. In part of his Person of the Year interview in "Time Magazine," President-elect Trump says he vehemently disagrees with the U.S. allowing Ukraine to use U.S.- provided weapons to strike inside Russia, long-range missiles. What do you foresee happening if the Trump administration no longer allows Ukraine to attack or respond to attacks against Russia this way?
CRENSHAW: Yes, I would encourage everybody to listen to the full comments that he made on that interview. He also said you can't -- you -- you can't make that kind of decision and abandon Ukraine. You know, you can't abandon Ukraine and think that you're going to have leverage to actually negotiate a peace deal with -- with Putin. If I were advising Trump, I'd probably advise him to say that exact thing.
You have to play good cop, bad cop here. And he's been off -- he's -- he's been given a really amazing opportunity to do that. I foresee a lot of success on this front because, look, Trump has never said he's going to abandon Ukraine. He said the opposite in that interview. He said we can't abandon Ukraine. And he doesn't want the legacy of abandoning Ukraine and letting Russia win the first land war of conquest since World War II.
And he wants to make good on a campaign promise to get Putin to the negotiation table, and he knows you can't do that unless you can de- escalate. And I like that Biden has given them that opportunity to be able to de-escalate from escalation. It is -- it is classic good cop, bad cop. And I -- and I think it might actually work.
TAPPER: Well, let's hope so. Congressman Dan Crenshaw, Republican of Texas, thank you so much, sir. Good to see you.
CRENSHAW: Appreciate it.
[17:43:25]
TAPPER: Coming up next, the new push amongst Democrats to get Biden to use his unique presidential powers in his final days in the White House. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: And we're back with our Law and Justice Lead. President Biden earlier today pardoned 39 people who had been convicted of nonviolent crimes and are considered to have records of meaningfully giving back to the country. The President also commuted his sentences of 1,499 people. Sources tell CNN these were individuals who had been placed on home confinement during the pandemic and are deemed to have demonstrated a clear commitment to rehabilitation and reintegration into their communities.
It is important to note that none of the nearly 1,500 people actually got out of prison because of today's announcement. They were already out. Now, Democratic members of Congress, who have been lobbying Biden to use his pardon pen more, argue that thousands of deserving others have still been left behind by President Biden.
There are about 1,800 people, some of them in their 70s, who received what are called stacked sentences before the First Step Act went into effect during the Trump administration. That law, the First Step Act, eliminated the practice of stacked sentences. That's when the harshest penalties are meted out if the arrestee even just owned a firearm. That resulted in some wildly disproportionate sentencing such as that of Weldon Angelos, who was sentenced to 55 years in prison for three marijuana sales, but he also possessed a gun, so his sentences were stacked, and he got 55 years. Weldon Angelos is -- is now out of prison. He was pardoned by President Trump.
Lawmakers also want Biden to grant clemency for those who could benefit from the EQUAL Act. If passed, the bill would eliminate sentencing disparities for crack cocaine and powder cocaine. Those sentences have often been viewed as discriminatory, of course, and sentences for crack cocaine were 18 times longer than those for powder cocaine, and the ones for crack cocaine disproportionately harmed black and brown communities instead of the white communities on the powder cocaine -- powder cocaine.
[17:50:00]
More than 5,000 people, roughly 4,000 of them black, felled into that category and are awaiting a commutation or pardon. A Democratic kill source tells us that the White House has conveyed to them that they are not inclined to show clemency or pardon anyone whose crime involved drugs or guns, to which one might observe the glaring exception to the rule about guns and drugs, an exception named Hunter Biden.
CNN's Van Jones joins us now. Do you think today's list goes far enough, or do you agree with these Democratic members of Congress that Biden should get around to these people, these other people?
VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm very glad that he did what he did so far. I think a lot of people don't know. This is kind of a bipartisan success. President Trump, when he signed the First Step Act, there was something in there called compassionate release, which nobody paid much attention to.
Then suddenly COVID hits, and it turns out you got a bunch of old folks, sick folks, vulnerable folks, and because of that, they were able to get those people out of harm's way. And then a miracle happened. Those people went home and didn't get in trouble. It turned out those people probably shouldn't have been -- probably shouldn't have had all those old sick people there in the first place.
And so now he's just doing what's obviously correct, which is to say people who've been out of prison, who haven't done anything wrong, people who've gone back to school, people who are -- who are taking care of -- of business, who are starting jobs, who are coaching kids should be able to stay home. That's a great first step, building on the First Step Act from the Trump administration.
But there is a lot more that Biden could and should do, because the hope was there would be a Second Step Act, and that was called the EQUAL Act. And the hope was that we would continue that bipartisan momentum to get more people out of the system who don't belong there. These crack cocaine charges are nuts, and yet nothing has been done yet.
And so I think there should not be any kind of stigma on helping folks who in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s got caught with some crack cocaine. Many of those people are some of the exemplary people in our federal prison. They should be able to come home, and Biden should do that.
TAPPER: What's your take on the White House suggesting, per our sources, that they're not even considering pardons or clemency when it comes to gun or drug cases?
JONES: Well, obviously, I mean, you stole my line. I mean -- I mean, they've already -- they've already crossed that bridge. They've already broken that rule. So, look, here's what I know about Joe Biden. This guy's heart is as big as a canyon. He is, I -- I think, going to listen to the pleas of people.
People's hopes are up now, and don't forget, you have some people like Leonard Peltier. He's been in prison for way too long. A Native American leader got caught up in some kind of a gunfight, crossfire. It's never been clear if he was innocent or guilty. A lot of big people from Robert Redford to, I believe, Desmond Tutu, called for him to be released 20, 30 years ago. There's a lot more good Joe Biden could do and should do.
You and I both know there are a lot of people in prison. They did something dumb 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago. Those folks needed a second look because if people can come home, as many people you know have come home and do great, that inspires the whole community. And -- and Joe Biden can still do that, and he should.
TAPPER: Van, you -- you -- you are a very strong, ardent supporter of the Democratic Party. You advocated for Hillary Clinton against Trump. You advocated for Joe Biden against Trump. You advocated for Kamala Harris against Trump. But you also worked with Trump on criminal justice reform. You got a lot of heat from Democrats and progressives for doing that. He's about to become president again. Would you do it again?
JONES: Of course I would do it again. And -- and what heat did I get? Some people said mean stuff on Twitter. But 40,000 human beings came home from federal prison, and by the way, very few ever got in trouble. Not only was the First Step Act championed by Hakeem Jeffries, championed by Jared Kushner, championed by Nancy Pelosi, championed by Donald Trump. It got 40,000 people home, and a -- a very small number, less than 20 percent ever got in any trouble again. It's the most successful prison reform in the history of prisons.
Donald Trump signed it and handed me the pen in the Oval Office. One of the things I'm proudest of. And listen, I disagree with Donald Trump on 99 other things, but on that -- that one issue, the whole country came together. We got something positive done, and Biden should build on that.
TAPPER: Worth the mean tweets, says Van Jones. Worth the mean tweets. Van Jones --
JONES: Hey, listen, my worst day on Twitter is better than anybody's best day in federal prison. I'd do it again 20 times if Trump let me.
TAPPER: Amen to that, about the worst day on Twitter. Van Jones, thanks. Always good to see you, my brother.
[17:54:54]
An 11-year-old girl survives a shipwreck and floating three days at sea. Our -- our last leads are next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Our last leads start in our Law and Justice Lead, where the FBI informant accused of lying about Joe and Hunter Biden has cut a plea deal. A court filing shows Alexander Smirnov is set to plead guilty to four charges. Smirnov, as you might recall, falsely told the FBI in 2020 that Burisma, the Ukrainian energy company, was illegally paying off Joe Biden while he was vice president as his -- and his son, Hunter, who was on the company's board.
In our National Lead, today, we mourn the passing of a man whose name you might not recognize, but whose work you have decidedly seen for years. William Hennessey Jr. was a veteran sketch artist who gave us rare glimpses into some of the most consequential court proceedings in this nation's history from Supreme Court deliberations to the testimony of Monica Lewinsky and even the impeachment of Donald Trump, his talent will be sorely missed. He died Monday on his 67th birthday. May his memory forever be a blessing.
And in our World Lead today, an 11-year-old girl has been thankfully found alive clinging to tire tubes off the Italian coast after the migrant boat she was on sank three days earlier. Italian media says the girl is from Sierra Leone and was fortunately wearing a life jacket. She told rescuers the metal boat capsized in a storm.
[18:00:13]
If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show whence you get your podcast, all two hours just sitting right there. The news continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer right next door in a place I like to call The Situation Room. I'll see you tomorrow.
