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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Signs Order Banning Trans Athletes From Women's Sports; Texas Governor On Trump's Border Crackdown; Fired Agents Sue, Accusing DOJ Of Violating Constitution; Bondi Sworn In As Attorney General Amid DOJ Turmoil; Trump Expected To Get Mar-a-Lago Classified Docs Returned. Aired 5-5:59p ET

Aired February 05, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[17:00:10]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, tens of millions of Americans fill prescriptions each year for opioid medications to deal with their pain. But a new type of pain medicine is about to hit the market that will create an alternative. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here to answer your questions about it.

Plus, the White House is trying to clear up exposure, explain, define whatever President Trump's comments that the U.S. will, quote, "take over Gaza" and potentially put U.S. troops on the ground there. Maybe? Backlash from the Arab world and from Democrats and from European allies has been swift. But are Republicans on Capitol Hill on board? How realistic is this proposal?

How would it even work?

And leading this hour, the countdown for tens of thousands of federal employees who still have jobs as of now but have until tomorrow to decide whether they're going to accept the government's legally dubious buyout offer or stay on the job and risk being laid off. As sources say the Trump administration may be planning a large reduction in force to get rid of even more federal employees.

Meanwhile, the richest person in the known universe, Elon Musk, has upended the distribution of power in the United States government in just a few short days. And with the clear blessing of President Trump, it's affecting employees at USAID and the CIA and the National Weather Service and many, many others. Joining us now, CNN Senior White House Correspondent Kayla Tausche and Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez.

Kayla, starting with you, thousands of government employees might not have a job by the end of the week. What are you learning about the short and long term effects of this dramatic plan to shrink the government?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, first, Jake, it depends on just how many of those government employees choose to accept this deferred resignation offer, which the union representing federal worker is not a buyout because there's no guarantee that you will get paid through that amount of time. Certainly, once the White House gets an assessment of that number, then the president has no shortage of other agencies where he has vowed steep layoffs, agencies where he has wanted to shutter or streamline the agency or where Republicans simply do not agree with the agency's mission. There's the Education Department that Trump has suggested Linda McMahon once confirmed could dismantle. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which has long been in the crosshairs for Republicans and has now been subsumed by the Treasury Department. Then there's the Small Business Administration, which Elon Musk has been disparaging and has recently accessed the payment systems of.

And then of course there is USAID, which Elon Musk tweeted last weekend. He was, quote, "feeding to the wood chipper." But Jake, there are a lot of considerations here for employees. There are so far earlier this week, about 20,000 that had accepted that resignation offer, though the White House has said that that number will go up. But it's targeting in the hundreds of thousands for these employees.

And even though the White House has said please go and get another job, be productive in the private sector, there will be some short term economic impact there. I spoke to President Trump's former chief economist from his first term, Tom Philipson, who's now an economist at the University of Chicago. And he said that most economists and Republicans agree that essentially lower regulation, less spending, our pro-growth policies, but there will be short term disruptions that inevitably occur because of this, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. And Evan, a day after the FBI provided some information, but not specific names, about thousands of employees who worked on the January 6th investigations in any possible way, a top Department of Justice official, Emil Bove, is now accusing FBI leadership of, quote, "insubordination." Tell us about that.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, this is because he says he's been trying to get the FBI to provide a name of a core group of FBI employees who worked on these January 6th cases. And he said he had been getting some resistance. And so as a result, he finally did issue that memo on Friday that implicated perhaps up to more than 5,000 employees. And so today he is trying to put some clarity to everything, saying that you're not necessarily going to get fired for simply working on these cases. I'll read you just a part of what Emil Bove's memo to FBI employees today.

It says, "No FBI employee who simply followed orders and carried out their duties in an ethical manner with respect to January 6th investigations is at risk of termination or other penalties." And he says the only people -- "the only individuals who should be concerned are those who acted with corrupt or partisan intent, who blatantly defied orders from the Justice Department leadership or who exercised discretion in weaponizing the FBI."

Now, the question is, of course, Jake, how do you define weaponizing? That's one of the terms that Donald Trump has used a lot, President Trump has used a lot on the campaign trail. And there is now the new attorney general, Pamela Bondi established a weaponization working group. The question again, Jake, how do you define this and how do you punish these people for said weaponization. Jake?

[17:05:09]

TAPPER: I mean, they're going after every single person who worked on any January 6th case, including somebody who just handed a warrant to somebody who was accused credibly of beating up cops. That's political?

PEREZ: Right, exactly. And that's one of the questions that I think every employee is still very concerned about. This memo, Jake, was intended to clarify things. It is clear as mud.

TAPPER: I think that that might be the intention. Evan Perez and Kayla Tausche, thanks so much.

Also in our politics lead, President Trump just signed an executive order banning transgender athletes from women's sports. Texas Governor Greg Abbott was at the ceremony. He met with President Trump at the White House, and he joins us now from the White House.

Governor Abbott, good to see you as always. You call today's executive order, quote, "a nonpartisan, bipartisan issue." Obviously, there are Democrats who disagree with you. Why is it important to you to highlight this issue?

GOV. GREGG ABBOTT, (R) TEXAS: Well, for one, I've signed two laws in the state of Texas that ban men and women's sports. It's just common sense. We need to promote women and have women participate separate from men. And what President Trump did was to, for one, override the misguided executive order that was put in place by President Biden. That, by the way, was overturned by the court.

But also what President Trump did was to sign a common sense executive order. Most of America, they don't want men and women's sports. There's absolutely no need for that. And so this is a restoration of common sense in the United States of America.

TAPPER: Is this only applicable to adults, to men? I mean, there might be, if this is a -- does this apply to an 11 year old transgender girl, for example?

ABBOTT: So what the Trump administration did was apply it to college athletics. And so women that I guess mostly would be considered adults, mostly 18 through 22, 23, whatever the age group is. In Texas, you know, the states have the control and responsibility for education K through 12. In states like Texas, we sign a law not just for women in college sports, but also girls in sports, K through 12, that men cannot participate in those sports in the state of Texas.

TAPPER: So --

ABBOTT: Boys cannot do that.

TAPPER: Right. So let me ask you, I understand the equity issue when it comes to college and high school sports. But if we're talking about like a 10-year-old or an 11-year-old transgender girl, it seems like a little different, theoretically, if we're just talking about like a kickball team or something. Have you met with any parents of transgender athletes who might have a different perspective just on the juvenile part of this?

ABBOTT: So, Jake, listen, there's no doubt that some people have a different perspective, but what we consider to be the correct perspective in the state of Texas is no boys and girls sports, period.

TAPPER: Right, but have you met with anybody with a different perspective?

ABBOTT: Yes. Of course, I've heard from people who have a different perspective. And again, what I'm telling you is understand that people have different perspectives. But again, the policy in the state of Texas at the lower level in education, no boys and girls sports at higher education, no men and women's sports, period.

TAPPER: So let's turn to immigration, because that's obviously one of the reasons why President Trump is in office right now. You're a border state governor. You spoke to the president about immigration. Can you tell us what you talked about?

ABBOTT: Sure. We talked about even more ways that Texas is offering to help the Trump administration. I mentioned several of the things that we talked about. One is that we have identified about 4,000 prison beds in the state of Texas that can be used by the Trump administration for holding facilities, for detention facilities, for imprisonment of people who have been arrested for committing crimes who are here illegally. Whichever way the Trump administration wants to use it, we're offering up that capability.

Also let them know about some things that we had done. That is, Texas has built more than 56 miles of border wall. We're working on another 18 miles of border wall, and we have acquired another hundred miles of land for border wall construction, all of which can be turned over to the United States of America. In addition to that, we have constructed buoys in the river, as well as two military bases on the border, one in Del Rio, another one in Eagle Pass that can house about 2,500 soldiers. If the Trump administration needs those facilities for U.S. soldiers for this operation or for ICE agents or other federal personnel, Texas is willing to provide those resources and facilities to the United States government.

TAPPER: What are the specifics of your plans now for the Texas National Guard at the U. S. Mexico border? Do you expect them to become more heavily involved in enforcement now that Trump's in office?

ABBOTT: Well, so that's exactly what they're doing. And I, as governor, have the authority to authorize the Texas National Guard to serve in the role of an ICE agent to assist ICE in their arrest, detention, and deportation of people who cross the border illegally.

[17:10:04]

TAPPER: All right, Texas Governor Greg Abbott, I know you have to go. Thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

ABBOTT: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: The new Attorney General of the United States, Pam Bondi was sworn in today. The first action's on her to do list. That's next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: Thank you, President --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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TAPPER: Back to the major shakeup happening in the federal government, specifically in the FBI, a day after the FBI provided some information, but not specific names of thousands of employees who worked on the January 6 cases in almost any capacity, a top Department of Justice official, Trump's former defense attorney Emil Bove, is now accusing FBI leadership of, quote, "insubordination."

Joining us now is Chris Mattei. He's a lawyer representing Federal Bureau of Investigations Agents Association, and filed a case on behalf of several FBI agents and employees against the Justice Department for this action. Let's start by just like trying to understand like who are these thousands of FBI employees who are now being asked to fill out the questionnaire about whether they worked on any of these cases not specifically involving Donald Trump? Just about any case, including the thugs who ran into the Capitol and beat up cops, et cetera. Give me an example of one of these people.

[17:15:20]

CHRIS MATTEI, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING FBI AGENTS IN LAWSUIT: Well, the idea that every agent in the FBI needs to come back to the office and fill out a survey describing whether they were involved in the January six investigation and in what capacity just shows you that this type of thing does not belong in the FBI at all. Because what FBI agents do every day is protect us. In fact, just last week, as the FBI was trying to pull bodies out of the Potomac river as a result of that tragic airline accident, they had to do that work, come back to headquarters expecting to be debriefed, hoping to get some time to themselves, and instead, they had to respond to an unprecedented questionnaire about whether they were involved in a particular investigation or not. And --

TAPPER: So, literally, pulling bodies out of the Potomac River as an FBI agent doing the job beckoned back to the office to fill out this questionnaire.

MATTEI: Yes, FBI agents do what they're asked to do, to protect our communities, to protect our neighborhoods, to protect our country. That's what they do. And those who are involved in the January 6th investigation, the thousands did what they were asked to do, and they did their duty. And the fact that they are now -- they appear to be targeted for political retribution as a result of their involvement, and that has been very chilling, and it's why we felt we had no choice but to file this lawsuit on their behalf yesterday.

TAPPER: And do you believe the Trump Justice Department when they say those who, quote, "simply followed orders will not be fired?"

MATTEI: Well, I hope very much that when the Justice Department lawyers come into court tomorrow at 10:30 in the morning, they say that the Justice Department will not be publicly identifying any federal agents, and that to the extent there's any disciplinary action, it'll go through the normal, lawful channels, and we can all move past this. So if that's what the Justice Department intends to do, we welcome it. And I'm sure that they would consent to an order from the judge to that effect.

TAPPER: Do you think that there are some in the Trump administration who want to publicly identify these individuals so that perhaps they will be subjected to harassment and personal threats?

MATTEI: Well, one of the things that caused us great concern was that in the run up to this questionnaire of FBI agents, there had been a lot of public statements suggesting that there was going to be an effort to go after federal agents who had done their job. So whether or not there are people in the administration who intend to do that, we didn't have any comfort that there weren't, and that's why we felt we had to protect them.

TAPPER: Well, and I mean, look at some of the people that were released by Donald Trump, including the leader of the Proud Boys, the leader of the Oath Keepers. I mean, these are individuals who already had a hostility to federal agents. I mean, is there a real risk, a real fear that perhaps if people are named, FBI agents are named, that individuals that we're showing on the screen right now or those similarly aligned might go after them?

MATTEI: There's no might about it. It's a certainty. I mean, they've committed to that. We included evidence in our filing that some of the people who have been pardoned have called for retribution against the federal agents who are involved in their cases. So we are trying to protect them.

I mean, federal agents are used to being in danger. They are not used to being endangered by the actions of their own government. It's preposterous that we're in a situation where the FBI had to go to court to get protection from what they fear the government might do.

Now, we hope that we're wrong. We hope that the DIJ, as I said, comes in tomorrow and says that they're not going to go after any agents and that to the extent there's any disciplinary review, it will be through the normal channels. That's really not too much to ask.

TAPPER: What about the individuals that have already been let go, the FBI leaders? I'm not even sure how many there were. They haven't exactly been transparent about this, but, I mean, does that make us less safe? I'm going down to the Super Bowl with my son, I hope it's safe. There was just a terrorist attack there not long ago on New Year's (ph).

Was the FBI in New Orleans, are they up to speed? Is there leadership in place?

MATTEI: Well, one of our concerns was that if they were going to purge the FBI, which it seemed as if that was a real possibility, that the thousands of agents who were going to be dismissed would no longer be able to do their jobs, both in leadership. And the Special Agent in charge in New Orleans was recently called back to headquarters. And so there is, of course, a concern with the continuity of security operations, both national security and public safety. That's the job that the FBI wants to focus on. They don't want to be part of this.

The job they want to focus on is keeping people safe. But in order to keep people safe, they have to be safe. And so that's why we're in court.

TAPPER: All right, Chris Mattei, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Let's explore this transformation of our justice system with former Assistant U.S. Attorney Alyse Adamson, Nick Akerman, who was a federal prosecutor and member of the Watergate prosecution team, and Tom Dupree, former principal deputy attorney general.

[17:20:01]

Nick, this is not the same as the Saturday Night Massacre at the Justice Department during Watergate. Yet we are witnessing a change and retribution it seems that we haven't seen quite like this before. How do you look at this?

NICK AKERMAN, FORMER ASSISTANT SPECIAL WATERGATE PROSECUTOR: Well, I think it's much worse than the Saturday Night Massacre was. There, you were talking about one special Watergate prosecutor. Here, we've got all of these inspector generals, you've got FBI agents, you've got a whole series of people, 6,000 employees in the FBI that are being fired.

Elliot Richardson, who was the Attorney General during the Watergate, the Saturday Night Massacre, was very specific with Bill Ruckelshaus, who was his deputy, that they made sure that Robert Bork actually fired Cox so that the Nixon White House could not put a political hack in charge of the Justice Department. Now we have a political hack in charge of the Department of Justice. We have a political hack who is about to be put in charge of the FBI. And they're getting rid of all of the people that really have the background and experience that can keep us safe and know how to do their jobs. So, this is a far more sweeping action than was the Saturday Night Massacre.

TAPPER: Alyse, what does this do when it comes to prosecutors and FBI agents just trying to do their jobs right now and keep our country safe without fear or favor for any individual?

ALYSE ADAMSON, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes, I think it has a very serious impact on morale, on the ability to do their duty. I'm in touch with a lot of prosecutors, both from the January 6th prosecutions, Jack Smith's investigation, who have not been let go yet, and they're worried. There's a real fear of reprisal and that's hanging over their head. And can you imagine trying to do your job of delivering justice with respect to prosecutors and then investigating crimes with respect to FBI agents when you're worried about whether you're going to be imminently terminated or if your name is going to be released publicly and you're going to be subject to doxxing or a lot worse. I mean, I think we've other folks on the panel have said this already, but I think it could impact the safety and security of the entire system at this point.

So I think it could have a very serious impact. And I think that it's already being felt within just the regular rank and file line prosecutors.

TAPPER: And Tom, we have some breaking news now. Two sources are telling CNN that President Trump is expected to get declassified documents he had taken to Mar-a-Lago, he's going to get them back. What's your reaction to that?

TOM DUPREE, FORMER PRINCIPAL DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTY. GENERAL, GW BUSH ADMIN.: Well, I mean, it's the final chapter, right, of the Mar-a-Lago saga ending with a whimper not with a bang. It's to be expected. Some of the materials they took, to the extent they fall in the category of Trump's personal possessions, they would be returned to him in the ordinary course, just as would happen in any criminal prosecution when the case comes to an end.

With regard to materials that were classified, I suppose he now has an entitlement to it in his role as commander in chief. So the fact that they were classified or even remain classified wouldn't be an impediment to returning to him. So, again, it is to be expected, but it's a pretty symbolic event nonetheless.

TAPPER: And, Tom, as we heard a few moments ago, a group of FBI agents who were fired have now sued. We saw a federal judge today block Trump's executive order to end birthright citizenship. Trump's freeze on federal spending appears to be headed to the U.S. Supreme Court in another test of presidential power. How do you see all of this playing out in the courts?

DUPREE: It's going to keep a lot of lawyers busy, Jake. Look, the success of the failure of the Trump administration, at least in the first year or two, will depend in large part on the fate of all of this litigation. Trump is moving very hard, very fast. The position they've taken is we are going to do whatever we want and we will see if the courts stop us. So that is the question.

I think what we're going to see in all of the cases you mentioned, Jake, is we are going to see the administration probably meet with defeat in a lot of the lower courts. So far, the plaintiffs who have sued, they have chosen their forums wisely, strategically. They've gotten orders telling Trump to cut it out, but of course, they are not the final say in this. And I think all of these cases, birthright citizenship, a freeze on federal spending, other challenges to administrative actions, are going to work their way up, in all likelihood, ultimately to land on the doorstep of the Supreme Court of the United States.

TAPPER: Alyse. Pam Bondi, the new attorney general, sailed through confirmation, 54 to 40 something, 45, 46, not seen as one of Trump's most controversial picks, yet she could potentially wield the most power executing his agenda in many ways.

ADAMSON: Yes, I totally agree with you, Jake. It's very interesting. Pam Bondi for a long time was a career prosecutor, and, you know, she has spent her career delivering justice and kind of prosecuting cases in the ordinary course. But as we have seen once folks start to be brought in by their boss, Donald Trump, they end up having to kiss the ring and bend to his will. And so I think it's going to be very interesting to see whether Pam Bondi is going to continue to function in the way she has done previously or whether she is going to take a very hard line stance, like we've seen with some of his other appointees and implementing his agenda.

[17:25:04]

And some of the agendas that she has on her plate as Tom just pointed out, they're probably going to fail in the court and that is going to be a black eye on the justice -- the DOJ, if that is the case, if they continue to have failure after failure. So, interesting to see how far she goes and she's going to have a really tough go of it in her first month or so.

TAPPER: Thanks one and all. Appreciate it.

The White House is trying to explain exactly what President Trump meant when he said yesterday that the U.S. would, quote, "take over the Gaza Strip." The reaction from around the world has been swift and rather brutal.

Is Trump's proposal realistic? Is it legal? How would it work? That's next.

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[17:30:10]

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Did you do something that could be phenomenal? And I don't want to be cute, I don't want to be a wise guy, but the Riviera of the Middle East, this could be something that could be so bad, this could be so magnificent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: In our World Lead. That was President Trump's message about the United States taking over Gaza. Speaking alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Trump declared, quote, everybody I've spoken to loves the idea of the United States owning that piece of land, unquote. Let's go right to CNN's chief international correspondent, Clarissa Ward. Clarissa, I am guessing that the Middle East leaders do not love the idea of the U.S. taking over Gaza.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, in a stunning development, Jake, they do not love the idea and in fact have been incredibly vocal publicly and privately about that. Saudi Arabia actually tweeted at 4:00 a.m. the middle of the night in Saudi time, just after that press conference to say that their commitment to a two-state solution, to establishing a Palestinian state was unwavering, uncompromising and not up for debate. We saw the UA -- UAE, another close ally of the U.S. come in not long afterwards and say it's completely categorically rejecting the notion of the forcible displacement of any Palestinians. We saw Turkey who called it unacceptable.

We know, of course, that a letter had been written by five Arab foreign ministers to Secretary of State Marco Rubio in the days beforehand, essentially saying that if you try to push Palestinians outside -- out of Gaza, you're going to create more instability, more chaos, more hostility. And in the private conversations, Jake, I'm hearing the word stupefied used a lot. Not just because they see this as showing a flagrant disregard for international law, but also showing a complete disregard for the dynamics in the region, for the fact that most of these countries, the populations are very much united around this issue. They're very much animated by it.

The other thing to add, Jake, is that this isn't just the Middle East. I mean, we are seeing some really strong condemnation coming from Europe as well. Germany's foreign minister calling it, you know, absolutely unacceptable and contrary to international law. The British Prime Minister, Keir Starmer also saying Palestinians must be allowed home, they must be allowed to rebuild and rebuild on the way to a two- state solution. So definitely round condemnation coming from the region, but also from here in Europe. Jake?

TAPPER: And Clarissa, you were one of the few reporters on the ground in Gaza during the war. Is it realistic to think that of the 2 million Palestinians who -- who lived in Gaza before the war that -- that any of them would want to leave. What if they were offered, you know, a place to go with job employment? Obviously, the -- the country or the territory has been decimated during this war.

WARD: I mean, certainly, Jake, it is obvious and realistic that Gaza has become pretty much uninhabitable and that much of it looks like a moonscape. And would there be Palestinians who would be willing to leave? I'm sure there would be. But if you talk to Palestinians as a whole, if you've ever spoken to a Palestinian, frankly, the idea that they would voluntarily be displaced from Gaza is, frankly, so farfetched that it beggars belief. And even the images, the videos that our colleagues on the ground in Gaza have been pumping out today of people's reactions to President Trump's comments as they are sifting through the debris of what remains of their homes, it's pretty forceful and it's pretty unsurprising. They are saying categorically there is no way we are leaving. We are going to rebuild and we are going to remain. Jake?

TAPPER: Clarissa Ward in London, thanks so much.

[17:34:03]

As the President also implements his plan to shrink the U.S. government workforce, we're going to take a look at the real world impact through the eyes of a mother who worked for the federal government. She's now wondering how she's going to pay her bill. Stay with us.

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TAPPER: In our Money Lead, USAID, the CIA, the Department of Education, it seems no agency is immune from the Trump administration's plans to shrink the government and gut offices connected to DEI programs. Rene Marsh spoke with one federal worker who's now facing unemployment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I keep having to start over.

RENE MARSH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And this was not supposed to be the thing that you needed to start over from.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt like going to the federal government was a way to find stability over the long term because --

MARSH (voice-over): This woman who spoke with CNN on the condition that she remain anonymous, was in one of the first groups targeted by an executive order, employees connected to DEI programs, a single parent with three kids, school loans, steep rent, and now facing unemployment.

MARSH: What is the general feeling across government amongst your fellow federal workers right now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grief. They're angry. Many that are confused, but all kind of grieving in their own way. The work that many of us do directly impacts the lives of some of our most vulnerable citizens, the people that we serve through these programs that are going to be in far dire straits than we are.

MARSH (voice-over): It's a story playing out across all agencies of the U.S. government, 2.4 million jobs, the country's largest employer now in the Trump administration's crosshairs for a dramatic downsizing.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): They're shuttering agencies and sending employees home in order to create the illusion that they're saving money.

[17:40:06]

MARSH (voice-over): CNN has spoken to federal workers at multiple agencies, all who have been placed on administrative leave and are worried about being fired. But even those whose jobs had nothing to do with DEI have been targeted, according to a union president, some because they had participated in diversity training under the first Trump administration. Others had volunteered to plan events like celebrating Black History Month. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a perfect storm. You are sidelining a lot of your federal workers, making them feel fearful. And it's -- it doesn't take long for these systems to kind of break down and for the institutional knowledge that's lost to have, like, real world impacts.

MARSH (voice-over): At least 75 career employees at the Department of Education face the same fate, also placed on indefinite leave, as the President crafts an executive order that will urge Congress to pass legislation that would shut down the agency. The Trump administration's plan to slash the federal government includes firing employees who have been on the job less than a year, offering buyouts and restructuring job titles, classifying employees as political appointments, making it easier to fire them.

REP. DON BEYER (D-VA): I would characterize it as chaos and just department after department. People have no idea who their leader is, what their job is. Can they come to work tomorrow? It's really the worst thing I've seen in federal government in my life.

MARSH: How does it feel to be targeted for the work that you're so passionate about? It's OK. You could take your time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It actually makes me prouder of the people that I've worked with and the things that we've done.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARSH: And I've spoken to several federal employees across government agencies, and all of them say their life is in this state of limbo. They're uncertain if they'll be fired. They're uncertain about this buyout offer that the administration is offering them, whether it's legal, whether the administration will hold up their part of the bargain of paying eight months if they decide to resign.

And then on top of all of that, Jake, we do know that there are more agencies preparing to tell even more federal employees that they will be placed on leave. But I do get this sense in talking to these employees that they have fight in them and they're not going to easily give up on their jobs. They're really leaning on these unions to fight for their jobs and protect their jobs, perhaps with some legal action.

TAPPER: I just want to make sure I understand something correctly, OK. So some of these employees, I'm not talking about all, but some of these employees were told during the first Trump administration by Trump secretaries, do this DEI program. These are not people whose job is DEI but just participate. They did it per what a Trump secretary told them to do and then they did a refresher later under Biden. But that is why their jobs are on the line, because they did what a Trump secretary told them to do?

MARSH: The irony, you know, in speaking with the union president for the Department of Education as well as several of these employees who said that their job duties have nothing to do with DEI. They said they got together, spoke to each other and the one common denominator was that they took that training two-day training in 2019 and did a refresher. So yes, the answer is yes. TAPPER: That is wildly insane.

MARSH: Yes.

TAPPER: Oh my God. Rene Marsh, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

[17:43:36]

A new opioid free pain medication is expected to hit the market in just weeks. Who qualifies to take it? Are there side effects? CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here to break it all down. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Our Health Lead now, the Food and Drug Administration has approved the first new painkiller in more than two decades. It treats pain without the use of opioids. We asked you to send in your questions. CNN's Dr. San -- Sanjay Gupta is here to answer them. Sanjay, Ali from Marin County, California asks, will this new painkiller make you loopy like the other meds? I can't take any pain meds because I feel like I'm on another planet. Sanjay, what are the potential side effects of this new painkiller?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So the -- the -- the basic, so what we're hearing from the clinical trials, the basic side effects really tend to not be so much effect -- effect on the brain, but rather things more like itching, muscle spasms and -- and rash. The thing to keep in mind is that opioids, those medications, they typically work on the brain, they are sedating, they can make people feel loopy, they can be addictive as we well know. This medication, it tends to work more at the site of the pain, sort of preventing or at least decreasing those pain signals from getting to the brain. So really a totally different mechanism of -- of how this works, Jake.

TAPPER: Connie tells us that she suffers from chronic pain syndrome and wants to know if this drug will treat long term chronic pain.

GUPTA: Yes, this is an important question. So right now what we know is it really seems to be suited to treating acute pain. So post- operative pain or a broken bone or something like that. The data on chronic pain, not as good. They -- they looked at, for example, sciatica, back pain that -- that goes down your leg and it seemed to reduce pain scores by two points. So if you said my pain is a six out of 10, may take it to a four out of 10. We'll see as more trial data comes out. But right now, mostly for acute pain.

TAPPER: Susan from the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania says that she is allergic to medication like aspirin and NSAID, I don't know what that is, you have to explain what that is, first of all, aspirin and most pain meds. She wants to know if she's going to be able to take this.

[17:50:09]

GUPTA: Yes. So NSAIDs, first of all, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. So that's the Advils, ibuprofens, things like that.

TAPPER: OK, thank you.

GUPTA: Yes. People have allergies to those types of medications even though this is a pain med. So opioids, anti-inflammatories, even antidepressants, all considered pain meds. They can work in very different ways. And people may have allergies to one class and not another class. So I, you know, I can't say for sure that you won't have an allergy to this new medication. But keep in mind it is totally different than those NSAIDs or aspirin or anything like that. Talk to your doctor first, obviously, but chances are this might be a good option for you.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

Coming up next, someone who just landed one of the toughest gigs here in Washington D.C. We'll bring her to you next.

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COLIN JOST, COMEDIAN: It's also wonderful to be back in Washington. I love being in Washington. The last time I was in D.C., I left my cocaine at the White House. Luckily, the President was able to put it to good use for his State of the Union.

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TAPPER: Comedian Colin Jost hosting one of the toughest gigs in comedy, last year's White House Correspondents Association Dinner. It's annual event where the entertainer, traditionally a comedian, roasts the president, other politicians, members of the media in a rather unforgiving room. This week, the White House Correspondents Association named someone that you might recognize from CNN, Amber Ruffin, as the entertainer for this year's dinner.

And joining me now is Amber Ruffin, an Emmy and Tony Award nominated writer and comedian. She's also featured on CNN's Have I Got News for You. You've probably seen her all over the T.V. Amber, congratulations on the hosting gig. Big deal. That's exciting.

AMBER RUFFIN, COMEDIAN: Thank you. I'm so excited. It's going to be a blast. It's going to be a blast.

TAPPER: So this is why POLITICO's Eugene Daniels, the current president of the White House Correspondents Association, said he picked you, quote, Amber's unique talents are the ideal fit for this current political and cultural climate. She has the ability to walk the line between blistering commentary and humor, unquote. That is quite a challenge. How are you going to walk that line?

RUFFIN: I -- I think I'm going to do it the same way I always do it, by just telling the truth about how I feel, you know. I -- I feel like we all feel a little sad. Well, some of us feel pretty happy, but a lot of us feel a little sad. And I think it's OK to say exactly what it is that's making us feel this way. And I think when you do that and people feel the same way as you, they think that it is fun and funny and it feels good to hear. And that's kind of where I operate from.

TAPPER: So U.S. presidents traditionally attend this dinner. However, Donald Trump never went to it during his first term in office. Do you want him to be there this year?

RUFFIN: No. Don't. Nobody want to know. No one -- no one wants that. I mean, sure, it's something to do. Look, I don't -- I can't -- I can't imagine he would. I can't imagine he would. He -- he should. He's missing out one of the cool things about being the president of the United States, but I don't know that anyone's looking forward to being in the same room as him, you know what I mean?

TAPPER: So I've been -- I've been going to this thing for probably decades at this point. And I was there the night that Seth Meyers, so I know who, you know him well.

RUFFIN: Yes.

TAPPER: He hosted and he and President Obama mocked Donald Trump viciously. He was in the audience, Mr. Trump, mocked him into running for president some might say. It's -- it's the Trump origin story. Does that give you any pause when it comes to choosing your targets this year?

RUFFIN: Yes. I am a writer on Late Night with Seth Meyers. Seth Meyers is a friend of mine. He got us into this mess. It is his fault. When you're looking for someone to blame, blame my boss. But no, I -- he did what he had to do. Like, you can't, it cannot be your job to razz people. And then this man comes along and is like, I'm going to be president. You have to laugh. And I mean, ultimately joke's on us, isn't it? So.

TAPPER: So Seth, along with a lot of other people you know, including Michelle Wolf --

RUFFIN: Yes.

TAPPER: -- and Trevor Noah --

RUFFIN: Yes.

TAPPER: -- Roy Wood Jr., your colleague at Have I Got News for You here on CNN, they've all hosted the dinner. Have any of them given you any advice or have you picked up any lessons from watching them?

RUFFIN: Everyone says that when you're standing there, it feels like you're getting no laughs. But in -- on the feed, on the video of it is better. They also said that you have to make fun of everybody. You can't just make fun of the people you disagree with. You have to spread it out evenly. And I'm not going to do that. Maybe I'll do it a little bit but probably not.

TAPPER: I think people just want to laugh.

RUFFIN: Yes.

TAPPER: I think that's -- that's the main thing, that people want to laugh. My -- my only note would be like, don't think that because it's a D.C. audience that they're like any wonkier or you don't have to go in the weeds. Like, it's -- you can be as broad as -- as you generally are I think.

RUFFIN: Oh my God, that's very good advice. That is very good advice.

TAPPER: Yes. Don't go down rabbit holes of like OMB reports or anything like that.

RUFFIN: That's what I was going to do.

TAPPER: Well, I mean, that -- that one OMB memo that was controversial. Yes. But I mean, like, as a general note, don't think that this is a smarter audience than any other audience.

RUFFIN: Jake, I'm going to be texting you.

TAPPER: You can anytime. Amber Ruffin, I'll be looking for you. Thanks so much and congratulations again. And look out for Amber and CNN's coverage of the White House Correspondents' Dinner this spring, Saturday, April 26th. You can also catch Amber on the comedy quiz show called Have I Got News for You, that's also right here on CNN. A whole new season debuts Saturday, February 15th, right here on CNN. Then it streams on Max.

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The news continues on CNN with Jim Sciutto right next door in for Wolf Blitzer in The Situation Room. See you tomorrow.