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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Federal Judge Blocks Trump USAID Leave Plan; Trudeau Says Trump Threat To Annex Canada "Is A Real Thing"; Trump Says Musk will Review "Just About" Every Federal Agency. Politico: Trump Considering Blagojevich For Ambassador Post; Actress Debra Messing On Her Pro- Israel Activism; Federal Judge Temporarily Blocks Trump From Putting At Least 2,200 USAID Workers On Leave. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired February 07, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: But we do have some breaking news as those efforts by Trump and Musk to shrink the government have hit another roadblock. Tell us more.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Jake, We do another afternoon, another court ruling, trying to at least put a temporary pause on the Trump administration's effort to reshape and remake the government.

We were just learning a few moments ago a federal judge here in Washington has said he will pause the midnight deadline for the USAID employees to be slimmed down to just a few hundred workers. Of course, we've had our eye on USAID all afternoon as the sign, as we can see there on screen, has actually been dismantled.

But a federal judge ruling just a short time ago, putting a temporary pause on this. Now this, of course, comes in a long line of judges stepping in to at least temporarily hold the work of the administration. Well, we've asked the White House for a comment on this. We've not yet heard back. But this is becoming a familiar pattern. The administration makes a move here and a judge at least temporarily holds it. Jake.

TAPPER: What did the president have to say today about any potential limits on Musk's work?

ZELENY: Jake, this was interesting. Another news conference that the president had as the visiting. A Japanese prime minister was in the East Room with him. And the president was talking in expansive terms about what he believes Elon Musk should do with the government.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Education, just about everything. We're going to go through everything just as it was so bad with what we just went through with this horrible situation. We just went through.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So saying we're going to go through everything. But then a reporter asked the president if there was anything essentially out of bounds for Mr. Musk. And this is what the president said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, we haven't discussed that much. I'll tell him to go here, go there. He does it. He's got a very capable group of people, very, very capable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So that raises the question here as we end the third week of the Trump administration, is Elon Musk following the president's orders or is the president learning about things after the fact? And it seems like the latter is likely the case, Jake. But here we are again, a judge halting at least the work of USAID. But again, this administration is going headlong into making their changes and they say they have no plans to stop. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much. You're looking right now at a new magazine cover for Time magazine. It depicts the richest man in the world, Elon Musk, sitting behind the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office. Joining us now Time magazine correspondents, Simon Schuster and Brian Bennett. They're the authors of the new piece. It's titled "Inside Elon Musk's War on Washington." So, gentlemen, thanks for being here.

So let's listen. Today, Trump was asked about the new cover.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Is Time magazine still in business? I didn't even know that. Elon is doing a great job. He's finding tremendous fraud and corruption and waste.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Of course, Trump knows that you guys are in business. He praised the magazine in December after he was named Person of the Year. He used to have fake Person of the Year covers before he entered politics. This afternoon, Trump tried to clarify how much power he gives Musk.

Brian, let me start with you. What are you hearing about the reality of this? As Jeff Zeleny put it, is Elon Musk doing what he wants to do? He has carte blanche, and Trump learns about it later? Or is Trump directing Musk? What's the reality?

BRIAN BENNETT, SENIOR WHIET HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, TIME: So in Elon Musk, Donald Trump has what he didn't have in his first term, which is an experienced CEO and manager who isn't afraid to break things. And he's following a playbook that was laid out by Project 2025 and Russ Vought and other people from Trump's first administration who spent four years coming up with a way to find the levers in the federal government and pull them to do cost cutting, control spending, and cut the headcount of the federal government.

So Elon Musk has been moving quickly, faster than he can brief the White House and the Chief of Staff's office, and it's been leaving the White House to catch up and try to clean up the pieces afterwards.

TAPPER: Oh, but okay. But he's basically just doing what Project 2025 laid out as an instruction manual.

BENNETT: That's right. That's right. He has teamed up with a number of people from Project 2025. He's brought in his own technical engineers, and they've gone into the beating heart of the federal government and the information systems and have found the switches and letters they need to try to cut the federal workforce and slow down spending.

TAPPER: So Simon, Musk's cover conjures up memories of Steve Bannon in the early days of Trump's first term in February 2017. There it is. Bannon on the COVID of Time magazine. His own cover story as Steve Bannon, the second most powerful man in the world. Late night hosts were joking about Bannon being the actual president at the time, and Mr. Trump did not like that. And he was out of the White House by that summer.

[17:05:00]

Now, this is a different Trump than 2017. He seems to have a less. I mean, he's creating chaos, but it seems intentionally so. And there seems to be at least less public infighting at the White House. What do you think? Is Musk not going to get the Bannon treatment?

SIMON SHUSTER, CORRESPONDENT, TIME: It's hard to say. I mean, the last time we did a deep dive on Elon Musk and what we expected for him to do in this administration, it was back in November, soon after the elections. And at the time, I think we and a lot of people were expecting this relationship to be pretty rocky. Both of them have big egos. They're used to being in charge. They're not used to sharing the limelight with anyone.

But I think this relationship has proven more resilient than many expected. But still, there's a lot of choppy waters ahead. You know, as I think the American people start to feel some of the ways in which they interacted or benefited from some of the programs and agencies that Musk is now out to slash, they might start to protest.

Indeed, some of the people that we talked to for this story, including civil servants who have lost their jobs at USAID and other agencies, you know, they are getting organized. You know, you mentioned in this segment and before the lawsuits that are flying. So it's not clear if Trump will be comfortable facing that heat on behalf of Musk when it seems the president doesn't always know what Musk is even doing out there deep in the bureaucracy.

TAPPER: And, Brian, you and Simon note in your piece, quote, this is the course the electorate chose, and to many, the idea of one of the world's most accomplished entrepreneurs attacking a sprawling, sclerotic federal bureaucracy with the same velocity and determination he brought to his car startup or rocket company, is cause for celebration, not alarm.

I don't know if we have any polling on this yet. I mean, it's still pretty early. But do you get the sense that there are a lot of people outside Washington that like this?

BENNETT: So I think a lot of Trump supporters, this is they're seeing the headlines they wanted to see, which is Trump comes in and he's starting to slash and go after programs that he promised to slash when he was running for office.

Now that could change. And we're already hearing from people out in the country who have some buyer's remorse because especially federal workers who may have voted for Trump because they're seeing this be indiscriminate and very disruptive. So Trump said that he was going after DEI programs and the Green New Deal.

But so far the impact has been much broader. And some of the people who voted for Trump are going to start feeling the impact on their lives and may feel like he's -- Elon Musk is moving too fast.

TAPPER: Sure. A lot of those federal employees or federal programs help veterans, help people in rural America. Simon, quickly, what do you foresee might be the biggest issues in Mr. Musk and his team treating DC like a tech startup?

SHUSTER: I mean, the biggest issues are going to be the agencies and programs that people really love and care about, the constituents, even the ones that voted for Donald Trump. We're talking about Medicare, health care, the Department of Education. People in those agencies and departments are feeling very uneasy. The people who work there. Musk's Department of Government Efficiency has already targeted some of them and implanted some of its operatives deep inside those agencies.

So we're going to have to wait and see. But I think the pushback is beginning this week and I do think it's going to snowball in the days and weeks ahead, especially with the lawsuits flying.

TAPPER: All right, we'll see, I guess. Simon Schuster, Brian Bennett, thanks to both you. Appreciate it. Elon Musk's troop of emboldened Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE operatives have been tasked with executing perhaps the biggest government shakeup in a generation, if not more. CNN's Kyung Lah is going to take a look into who they are and their unorthodox backgrounds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So here we have Luke Farritor, who is winning the first letters prize on behalf of the Vesuvius Challenge.

LUKE FARRITOR, SOFTWARE ENGINEER: Indeed. Thank you.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Luke Farritor was the first person to decipher a word from ancient scroll that had been buried in volcanic mud for centuries. FARRITOR: Kind of the first part of the challenge. Through July, I was

interning at SpaceX and just kind of doing this in the evenings and weekends. It's the word profurus.

LAH (voice-over): He went on to win the grand prize in a global competition. A 22-year-old undergrad at the time.

FARRITOR: My friends were there, I was cheering, jumping up and down, you know, screaming, crying, all the stuff. I run most of the things from my laptop. It's just a normal MacBook, don't worry. But then I've just got like five surplus computers in here. This is what I do most of my work from.

LAH (voice-over): What he does now is work for DOGE, the Department of Government Efficiency, headed up by Elon Musk, who's brought in a group of gifted young engineers, some in their early 20s with no prior government experience. Their current job assignments? Unclear.

But it is clear they're part of the Trump administration's plan to slash government agencies.

[17:10:00]

Democratic senators sent a letter to the White House describing how DOGE staff has seemingly unfettered access to classified materials and Americans personal information. In federal court, government lawyers said Marco Elez has had read-only access to a highly sensitive payment system at the Treasury Department.

Elez who previously worked at SpaceX, has been the center of attention. His DOGE position was terminated after the Wall Street Journal uncovered racists and eugenic posts on an account linked to him. But then Elon Musk, the vice president and Trump himself weighed in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the DOGE engineers was fired for some inappropriate posts. The vice president says bring him back. What do you say?

TRUMP: Well, I don't know about the particular thing, but if the vice president said that. Did you say that? I'm with the Vice President.

LAH (voice-over): The injection of unconventional outsiders is alarming some federal employees. This man who spoke at a Virginia congressman's town hall this week didn't identify himself out of fear of retaliation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had Elon Musk get on the building and after he visited the building called for a 50 percent cut of the entire agency, My colleagues are getting 15 minute one-on-one check ins with 19, 20 and 21-year-old college graduates asking to justify their existence.

LAH (voice-over): Most of the hires are connected to Elon Musk's companies like Ethan Shaotran.

ETHAN SHAOTRAN, HARVARD UNIVERSITY STUDENT: This is a really exciting time for young folks, for old folks, for everyone.

LAH (voice-over): He was a runner up in a hackathon contest put on by xAI, an artificial intelligence company Musk founded. Shaotran spoke in 2023 about how AI will change the future.

SHAOTRAN: Really, for the first time in modern history, it's not the physical laborers, the farmers, the factory workers who are being displaced, but it's the white collar workers, the knowledge workers, the engineers, lawyers, doctors, teachers. And for a lot of the folks in this room, that's really scary. That's really concerning.

LAH: Now Shaotran is a special government employee, a source tells CNN. Gavin Kliger on LinkedIn lists his job as special advisor to the U.S. Office of Personnel Management. A 2020 Berkeley graduate, Kliger worked in Silicon Valley for Twitter and then for a data intelligence company. He spoke about that work at a conference in 2023.

GAVIN KLIGER, SPECIAL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE: Additionally, any system with a human in the loop is not going to scale well.

LAH: In blog posts last year, Kliger wrote about two of Donald Trump's then nominees and showed himself as fiercely loyal to the now president. Kliger recently removed a substack post where he charged $1,000 to subscribe and read why DOGE? Why I gave up a seven figure salary to save America.

LAH: We didn't pay and we did try to reach all of the hires were able to identify in addition to reaching out to their family, their friends and classmates. We didn't hear back from anyone. Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: And our thanks to Kyung Lah for that report. What President Trump told CNN's Kaitlan Collins today about whether he plans to fire FBI agents who worked on any cases related to the January 6th attack on the Capitol. That's next.

Plus, tell us how you really feel. Mr. Prime Minister. Canada's Justin Trudeau, caught on a hot mic talking about Donald Trump will play the audio ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:17:37]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Are you planning to fire the FBI agents who worked on those investigations?

TRUMP: No, but I'll fire some of them because some of them were corrupt. I have no doubt about that. I got to know a lot about that business, that world. I got to know a lot about that world that we had some corrupt agents. And those people are gone or they will be gone. And it'll be done quickly and very surgically. (END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Very surgically, he said. We heard that about the January 6th pardons also, of course, wasn't so surgical. That's President Trump a short time ago telling CNN Kaitlan Collins that he's going to fire some of the FBI agents who investigated the January 6 attack on the Capitol. Just to remind everyone what so many of those agents were investigating, here are some images as rioters brutally and violently attacked police officers as they stormed the U.S. Capitol hoping to stop the counting of electoral votes.

You will remember that Trump granted sweeping nonsurgical (INAUDIBLE) to nearly 1,600 people charged as a result of the work of more than 5,000 FBI employees who were investigating the people who were criminals breaking the law, you know, invading the Capitol that day.

Joining us now, CNN chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid, CNN national security correspondent Josh Campbell.

So, Paula, this comes after the FBI turned over the names of those employees who worked on January 6th cases to the Justice Department. Did they turn over the names or just the like, employee numbers?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So last week they turned over the employee numbers, but the acting deputy attorney general said that wasn't enough.

TAPPER: Called the insubordination Right.

REID: Exactly. So last night they did hand over the names of those individuals who worked on cases related to January 6th. But obviously there are legitimate concerns, both from the agents and their union about this list getting out. Before we even get to concerns about job security, they're worried about this being released and they're possibly being doxed.

So there was a lawsuit filed over this. And today the Justice Department and the FBI reached an agreement where this list will not be released publicly without at least two days notice.

Now, as much as they are concerned about being released publicly, they say that one of their biggest concerns is just sending it to the White House or to DOGE and then it being released from there.

Now, the Justice Department insists they have no intention of releasing that, but we know that these names have a way of getting out and there are real security concerns. So individuals on this list who are working on these cases as part of their job not only have legitimate concerns about their safety, but then you hear the president saying that he does expect some of them to be fired for reasons he can't quite specify.

[17:20:10]

TAPPER: And, Josh, you're a former FBI agent. What are you hearing from former colleagues about the impact this is all happening on people inside the Department of Justice?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, what I'm hearing is people are saying that Trump's attacks on the FBI in the first term were distracting, but what they're feeling right now is simply destabilizing because you have thousands of career employees with this sword of Damocles hanging over their careers because of their role in this lawfully predicated investigation.

But even if people, you know, watching don't have a high opinion of the FBI, what I'm hearing is that, you know, they say that there is a net negative here if you start getting rid of people or you start creating all of this chaos. You know, the federal government is constantly competing with the private sector for the very best talent. A lot of these people can be making a lot more money in the private sector, but they go into government service because of a sense of mission, of a sense of purpose, of that sense of public service.

But for a lot of them, you know, they're not going to stick around if this continues. And this goes for agencies even beyond the FBI.

And so you imagine if those people start to leave, this won't end up being the model of expert efficiency that I think Donald Trump and Elon Musk are looking for. And finally, just to, you know, give you one example, I know one FBI agent who is highly trained in cyber skills. I mean, things that would blow your mind, that he's done on behalf of the country in order to protect people. And he voted for Trump twice.

And I was talking to him, and he said, look, I'm starting to put in my papers because I don't want to have to deal with this kind of chaos. You compound that, multiply that times, all the other, you know, hundreds, possibly thousands of employees feeling the same again. The net result isn't going to end up, I think, what the President is looking for.

TAPPER: Yes, we heard a story from a lawyer representing FBI agents earlier this week about an FBI agent literally pulling bodies out of the Potomac from that crash and then being beckoned back to the FBI, thinking she was just going to debrief on the horror. And instead, she had to fill out that questionnaire about what she did related to the attack on the Capitol.

Paula Reid, Josh Campbell, thanks to both of you appreciate it.

From the Governor's Mansion to the Apprentice to federal prison, and now President Trump is reportedly considering Rod Blagojevich for a post in the Trump administration. Those details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:26:42]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'd like to see Canada become our 51st state. We give them protection, military protection. Some people say that would be a long shot. If people wanted to play the game right, it would be 100 percent certain that they'd become a state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In our world lead, that comment from President Trump prompting a new warning from our neighbors in the north. Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau today warning business leaders, quote, it's a real thing. Let's bring in CNN's Paula Newton. Paula, what more do we know about what Trudeau had to say?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you that for the last few weeks, really, ever since Justin Trudeau met with Donald Trump the first time in November, that he does believe that the president is serious about inviting Canada to become the 51st state.

And he wanted to make sure it was on the record that the business leaders there knew what they were up against. I want you to listen now to that moment where Justin Trudeau thought he was off camera, off mic, but he was not listening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN TRUDEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: Mr. Trump has it in mind that the easiest way to do it is absorbing our county and it is a real thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: A real thing. What does that mean, Jake? It means that the signals that they are getting from the president and his allies is the fact that they believe that there is no win-win when it comes to trading with Canada, they believe it should be win, lose for Canada. They don't even understand why they have to negotiate.

The issue here is that Canada has already put up a lot of resources to beef up the border the way Donald Trump had insisted, and yet the prime minister is putting everyone in that room on notice. Look, that will not be enough. The president will come back to this again and again.

Remember, we've got that tariff deadline again on March 1st. The government here trying to figure out, look, what do you want? He wants the people in the room there to understand what they're up against.

Someone in the room today told me, look, people are collaborative here. They know they have to stiffen their spines and get ready for this. But suffice it to say, everyone very worried about how far the president will take this in the coming months.

TAPPER: All right, Paula Newton in Ottawa, thanks so much. For more on Trudeau's comments, let's bring in CNN national security analyst Beth Sanner. Beth, is Trudeau right here? Should Canadians be worried?

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I actually think that Trudeau was right. You know, I have four reasons for why President Trump makes these kinds of statements. You know, first is negotiating leverage. Second is because actually there are unfair trade practices in different countries. You know, 260 percent tariff on milk from Canada. It doesn't feel very fair. Right. The third is because he actually needs to offset this huge and growing budget deficit. That's what Peter Navarro talks about. And the fourth one is trolling.

So I think we were all in the beginning thinking about this. Like this is just kind of the trolling. He's having a little fun. Right. But one of the things about President Trump is when he repeats things over and over again, it becomes more real. And I think that in this case, it's not just about negotiating. It's not just about trolling.

[17:30:00]

And I think that absolutely there will be more to come and more pressure. How serious this is a different matter. But does he actually think it should be true? I think he does. I think he's convincing himself.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: So it sounds like you and -- would you -- would you say that you view his comments about turning Gaza into the new Middle East Riviera and the U.S. taking control of that in a similar vein? Like, it's not necessarily. He's not necessarily going to go -- send troops to Canada.

SANNER: Right.

TAPPER: Or to Gaza.

SANNER: Right.

TAPPER: But he's serious. It's a negotiating position. He's trying to --

SANNER: Right. It can be --

TAPPER: -- mess with people's minds.

SANNER: -- all of these things at once.

TAPPER: All -- all them. Yes.

SANNER: But there -- in -- in all of these cases, he's at the point, I believe, where there's some seriousness behind it, that it's not just he -- he can think, like, hey, that would be kind of a good idea. Now, you know, Hakeem Jeffries should start saying it because it would definitely boost the Democrats if Canada came in.

TAPPER: Right. Exactly. How many House seats would've --

SANNER: I know. It's like not actually a good -- good idea for Trump.

TAPPER: So another foreign policy headline today. This was not in my bingo card. According to "Politico," Trump is considering former Illinois Governor, Rod Blagojevich, a Democrat convicted of corruption charges, to be the new U.S. ambassador to Serbia. People may or may not remember that Trump pardoned him. His wife would go on "Fox" and plead to then-President Trump, please pardon my husband. This is unfair. And Trump did. Folks out there might know, I do a series called United States of Scandal. We did an episode about Governor Blagojevich. Here's a little clip from that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROD BLAGOJEVICH, FORMER ILLINOIS GOVERNOR: There is this real problem in American politics today where prosecutors are weaponizing themselves, criminalizing routine and legal practices in government politics. And I think it's wrong when they do it to Bill Clinton. It's wrong I think when they did it to President Trump, because I have strong views on that, and I know it was wrong when they did it to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: He wouldn't even be the only person that Trump has pardoned that he would make into an ambassador. Jared Kushner's dad, Trump pardoned. He's going to be, or at least he's nominated to be ambassador to France. What do you think?

SANNER: I think that Trump really relates to his hair first. But beyond that, I think -- I think it's really about domestic politics in a way, but also about Serbia. So, you know, his dad is from Serbia.

TAPPER: Yes.

SANNER: They're talking about two Serb Americans as a potential. I think it's a trial balloon. And then I also think that, you know, it's possible here that it relates to having someone in Serbia who will represent the Trump view and the Trump family. Blagojevich was just in Serbia this past week. He met with President Vucic. He was introduced as one of the closest friends of President Trump and someone who will improve our relationship. And Jared Kushner and his -- his company just had last year a contract, a $500 million contract --

TAPPER: Oh, right. Right. Yes.

SANNER: -- with the Serbian government to develop a wonderful hotel out of a building in downtown Belgrade.

TAPPER: Yes, there was a controversy about that building, as I recall. But you also, you -- you joke about his hair, about them bonding with his hair. I really think that they bond over thinking that the FBI and the Department of Justice are corrupt and go after successful politicians that they -- they disagree with. Viewers out there can have their own opinion on that. Beth Sanner, thanks so much. Don't miss out, of course, on season two of United States of Scandal. It's back in just about a month on March 9th, only here on CNN. Watch because maybe you'll learn the names of some new cabinet officials a year or so afterwards.

[17:33:41]

Today we're learning the names of the three hostages that Hamas is set to release tomorrow as negotiations for the next phase of the cease fire and hostage deal enter a new stage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our World Lead, Hamas, the terrorist group in Gaza, has released the names of the next hostages it plans to release tomorrow as part of the ceasefire deal. They are Eli Sharabi, Or Levi, and Ohad Ben Ami. CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv for us. Jeremy, what do we know about these three individuals?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, we're now learning the identities of the three Israeli hostages set to be released tomorrow after more than 15 months in Hamas captivity. Eli Sharabi, a 52-year-old taken hostage from Kibbutz Be'eri on October 7th. He will be released, but sadly he will not be returning to his wife or his two daughters who were killed on that terrible day.

His brother was also taken hostage on October 7th, but he died in captivity, likely killed by an Israeli airstrike according to the Israeli military. Then we have Ohad Ben Ami, who is now 56 years old. He was also taken hostage from Kibbutz Be'eri. And you can see in this video the reaction of his family, including one of his daughters and his wife, Raz Ben Ami, who was also taken hostage, but she was released as part of that November 2023 ceasefire agreement.

And then lastly we have Or Levi, a 34-year-old who was kidnapped the Nova Music Festival on October 7th. Sadly, his wife was among those who were killed by Hamas on that terrible day at that music festival. He is however, going to be returning to his three-year-old son who has been waiting for 491 days now for his father to return.

We've also learned according to Hamas, that 183 Palestinian prisoners and detainees will be released from Israeli jails. Eighteen of them have been serving life sentences, 111 of them were detained in Gaza post October 7th by the Israeli military. The Israeli government, we should note, has not yet confirmed the numbers or the identities of those Palestinian prisoners to be released. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Jeremy Diamond, thanks so much.

[17:39:59]

The October 7th terrorist attacks affected far more than just those in Israel or Gaza, including those affected by a wave of anti-Semitism around the world. Now, for activists, that surge was a call to action, and one such activist is actress, Debra Messing, from the T.V. show "Will & Grace," who says she felt compelled to speak out and support the people of Israel regardless of the consequences. CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister spoke with Messing exclusively about what she's been doing this past year and what comes next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBRA MESSING, ACTOR AND ACTIVIST: It really has awakened in me a pride and a strength, I think, that was laying dormant and I think was -- I was too scared to reveal.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Debra Messing is talking about this, the October 7th attack on Israel in her year of activism that followed.

MESSING: Hello.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello.

MESSING: I'm -- I'm Debra.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Including traveling to Israel and Gaza to meet with Israeli soldiers and victims of the attack.

MESSING: I felt compelled to go and to bear witness so that I could come back and share their stories and not be called a liar.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Messing has been called a lot worse as many social media users have taken aim at her unflinching pro-Israel stance. It's a much different identity for Messing than her time starring on the hit comedy "Will & Grace."

MESSING: But apparently I wasn't good enough for your kebabs.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Messing feels she's on an island in Hollywood, with the Israel-Gaza war becoming a flashpoint that much of the industry has been reluctant to take on. Like when Messing and other Jewish figures in the entertainment business launched a campaign calling on the U.S. government to prioritize the return of the hostages.

MESSING: And people wouldn't sign it.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): She talks about it in the new documentary "October H8te," out March 14th in theaters, which takes a critical look at the explosion of anti-Semitism around the world following October 7th.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're taking the kidnap posters down.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Messing executive produced the film.

MESSING: I have been an activist for 25 years. And I have marched and stood behind every leader of every marginalized community that has been seeking equity and inclusion. The thing that I have had to mourn the most is the fact that when I look to my right and my left, the people who I supported were not with me.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): One of the first celebrities to speak up about the Hamas attack on Israel, Messing has used her voice on social media. But this is her first television interview since October 7th. She's joined by the documentary's director, Wendy Sachs.

WENDY SACHS, DIRECTOR, "OCTOBER H8TE": How did we get to this moment, this explosive time between social media and media bias that have sort of portrayed this whole situation as a fight against Israel rather than a fight against terrorism?

WAGMEISTER: How difficult has it been for you to secure distribution for this film. SACHS: I'd been told by pretty much every agent and every agency in Hollywood, great film. No one's going touch it.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): With the death toll In Gaza, over 45,000, the pair don't hide from those who lay the blame on Israel for the staggering death toll.

MESSING: What is happening in Gaza is -- is devastating. Any loss of life is devastating. War is devastating. The thing that has been very hard to understand is -- is how people can't seem to hold two things at once. How you can be pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel at the same time.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Messing says despite the ridicule she's received, her activism won't stop.

MESSING: All of that hate just washes over me and it -- it doesn't touch me anymore.

SACHS: Debra has a courage that I haven't seen in so many others, and I applaud her for that.

MESSING: One of the most beautiful parts of Judaism for me is that it is always about finding the light in the dark and bringing light into the dark. I believe that that can change everything.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WAGMEISTER: Now, Jake, both Debra and her producing partner, Wendy, tell me that this film is not about the war in Gaza. It's about what has happened after October 7th, this global explosion of anti- Semitism, the fact that innocent hostages are still being held captive. And as we look to three more hostages being released this weekend while Debra Messing is going to be speaking out about them, she's been very vocal on her social media and she says she will not stop until all of the hostages are home.

[17:45:09]

TAPPER: Elizabeth Wagmeister, thanks so much for that report.

The real world impact of some of President Trump and Elon Musk's big government cuts, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Moments ago, a federal judge paused some of the Trump administration's effort to dismantle USAID. This is just hours before thousands of employees were set to be placed on leave. CNN's Larry Madowo is in Uganda with a look at how real aid programs and real people could be impacted if this vital assistance goes away.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAMUEL LINDA, HIV PATIENT: I feel traumatized. I feel low. LARRY MADOWO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thirty- six-year-old, Samuel Linda, has been living with HIV since 2014, getting his life saving drugs from a USAID project. But his supplies are almost out.

LINDA: I feel like the -- the world is ending tomorrow because I don't know where I'm going to go. I don't know my tomorrow if I'll be alive or dead.

[17:50:06]

MADOWO (voice-over): He distributes U.S. funded condoms in his community to stop new infections and make sure the infected keep taking their medications.

Meanwhile, patients at this USAID funded facility in the Ugandan capital, Kampala, wait, hoping the treatments are still available. Nearly 1,000 employees here have been followed after the U.S. stopped work orders. It's still running for now, though no one knows for how much longer.

Its leader, Dr. Andrew Kambugu, is a U.C. Berkeley alum who is grateful for American generosity, but worries about the future for his staff and patients.

DR. ANDREW KAMBUGU, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INFECTIOUS DISEASES INSTITUTE UGANDA: We are in the throes of an Ebola outbreak, and before the Ebola outbreak, Uganda is grappling with an mpox outbreak. So we find ourselves in a situation where a number of infectious diseases have converged.

MADOWO (voice-over): USAID is a lifeline to millions here, millions who would be stuck without it.

MADOWO: These are thank you notes from patients here to the medical team at the Infectious Diseases Institute in Uganda. They cover HIV, TB, mpox, and even the current Ebola outbreak, the country's eighth. The implication is that U.S. funding has kept patients like these ones alive.

MADOWO (voice-over): The U.S. is one of Uganda's largest donors, spending more than half a billion dollars in healthcare alone every year. More than a third of USAID funds came to Africa in 2023. Those dollars saved lives, but also supported many Americans.

WINNIE BYANYIMA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, UNAIDS: Without U.S. funding, people die. Without global collaboration, people die.

MADOWO (voice-over): Winnie Byanyima runs the U.N.'s global response to the AIDS epidemic. They warn that up to 6.3 million people could die by 2029 if the U.S. cuts off funding, Americans will also lose out.

BYANYIMA: Actually, sometimes I say we have the diseases, they have the profits. They make money. The -- the aid connects them to markets, and markets benefit American companies and American jobs are created at home.

MADOWO: So USAID is not just charity to African countries?

BYANYIMA: No, no. It's mutually beneficial.

MADOWO (voice-over): But the negative sentiment isn't one that's shared by all of Africa's leaders. In an exclusive interview with CNN, Rwanda's president says the continent has to wean itself off aid.

PAUL KAGAME, RWANDA PRESIDENT: In President Trump's unconventional ways of doing things, I -- I completely agree with him on many things.

MADOWO: Even though it will hurt you as Rwanda, which depends on some U.S. aid to fund -- fund your health care and development?

KAGAME: Well, we might learn some lessons.

MADOWO (voice-over): Larry Madowo, CNN, Kampala, Uganda.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: And our thanks to CNN's Larry Madowo.

[17:53:04]

We're back with one of the biggest events in America happening this weekend.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: We're back now with a completely unbiased Sports Lead, the big game is finally here. This weekend, my beloved, your beloved Philadelphia Eagles will face off against the Kansas City Chiefs in Super Bowl LIX. So will it be fly Eagles fly or a Chiefs three-peat? CNN's Andy Scholes is down in New Orleans ahead of the game. Andy, I'm -- I'm heading to you tomorrow. I hear the Chiefs are not looking forward to a notable play that the Eagles are particularly known for.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: That's absolutely right, Jake. Looking forward to seeing you down here in New Orleans because we've had absolutely fantastic weather all week long. But if the Chiefs want a three-peat, be the first team to ever do that, they're going to have to stop the most dominant play in all of football, and that is the Eagles tush push. You know, when it gets to third and one, fourth and one, just forget about it because Jalen Hurts in that Eagles offensive line, I mean, they are the premier tush pushers in the entire NFL. And Chief star defensive tackle, Chris Jones, earlier this week said he is not looking forward to seeing that play.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS JONES, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS DEFENSIVE TACKLE: They're so good at it. They've been doing it for a while. Tough to stop. They've kind of mastered the leverage and the rugby style of running. Yes, man, it's pretty tough and it's pretty hard to stop. I think they have like a 95 percent win rate with that. They need to make the game even for us. Yes, ban the play.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: And -- and Jake, you know, there -- there is talks that the NFL actually might ban the play after the season, but for now, it remains an elite weapon for your Eagles.

TAPPER: The NFL banning the play. What's the -- what's the mood down there ahead of the weekend? And what's the -- what's the percentage of Eagles fans versus the other team?

SCHOLES: I will say this, Jake. You know, I was at dinner last night eating, and all of a sudden, oh, here was E-A-G-L-E-S, Eagles. It happened multiple times, actually. And I would say at least -- at least for now. I've definitely seen more Eagles fans than I have seen Chiefs fans. They're probably even out a little bit as we get closer to the game. But you know, Jake, this is just a premier city for walking around, getting some food. And I can't stop eating. We're right next to Cafe Dumont right now and I, of course, have some beignets.

TAPPER: Nice.

SCHOLES: Just like my fourth one of the day.

TAPPER: So, Andy, you'll know the Eagles fans are in the green shirts and the Chiefs fans are in black and white striped shirts. That's how you tell the difference. If you had to pick Eagles or Chiefs, what's -- what's -- what's your call?

[18:00:09]

SCHOLES: It's really tough to bet against Patrick Mahomes. Chiefs have won 17 straight, one score games. But I think that streak finally comes to an end. I think the Eagles are victorious --

TAPPER: Oh, there we go.

SCHOLES: -- on Sunday.

TAPPER: There it is. There it is. Andy Scholes, thanks so much.

Coming up Sunday on State of the Union, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, Democratic Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, that's Sunday morning at 9:00 Eastern and again at noon here on CNN.

The news continues on CNN with Jim Sciutto in for Wolf Blitzer in The Situation Room. Fly, Eagles, fly. Go birds.