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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Bill Gates Suggests He Had Autism As A Child; Rep. Robert Garcia (D-CA), Is Interviewed About Acting U.S. Attorney Targets Dems For Alleged Threats To Elon Musk; Yankees Allow Players & Coaches To Have "Well-Groomed Beards". Aired 5:00-6p ET

Aired February 21, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're going to hear it and feel it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is a supposedly conservative party taking such a radical and extremist and sloppy approach to this?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Leading this hour, President Trump spars with the governor of Maine over his executive order banning trans women from competing in women's sports. Trump with threatening to withhold funding if states don't comply. That governor's response, quote, see you in court.

Let's start with CNN's Kaitlan Collins is at the White House. And Kaitlan, President Trump held a working session with bipartisan group of governors today at the White House, and he got into the seated exchange with the Democratic governor of Maine, Janet Mills.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, it was a remarkable moment of tension in the state dining room today. Now, if you've been paying close attention to what Trump has been saying, he actually called her out last night when he was speaking to governors here in Washington. And then again today, he asked if she was in the room. And there was a remarkable moment between the two of them that comes down to that executive order that he signed one of his first days in office barring transgender athletes from performing or are competing on women's or girls sports teams.

And that if states allow them and schools allow them, they would try to use Title 9 and the Department of Education here in Washington to deny federal funding to those states. So I want you to listen to this moment that happened between President Trump and Governor Mills.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: And your population doesn't want men playing in women's sports.

GOV. JANET MILLS (D) MAINE: We're going to follow the law sir. TRUMP: So you better -- you better comply, because otherwise you're

not getting any federal funding. MILLS: We'll see you in court.

TRUMP: Every state -- good. I'll see you in court. I look forward to that. That should be a real easy one. And enjoy your life after, Governor, because I don't think you'll be in elected politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: So he was essentially implying there that Governor Mills will not be in politics any longer because of this fight that is happening between them. This is something that has been really, Jake, you've been watching state by state to see how they're responding to these executive orders.

The president there was asserting that his executive order is law and that Maine has to follow it. She has said otherwise, and we've heard otherwise from state officials in Maine because they have instead argued that they have their own laws in place and a human rights act that bars discrimination of this nature.

And so this is a remarkable situation where this is playing out. And this was even a question that was posed to the White House after the president signed this executive order, because, as you know, he also wants to shut down the Department of Education.

So one question from a reporter to the White House that there wasn't really a fulsome answer on was what would they do if they shut down the Department of Education? How would they try to enforce this? But watch this be another court battle that is going to play out as we've seen so many come and stem from those executive orders that we've seen President Trump sign.

TAPPER: Yes, I think Charlie Baker, the head of the NCAA said there are eight trans athletes in college sports today. On a separate subject, Kaitlan, you have new reporting today that the acting ICE or Immigration and Customs Enforcement director is being removed from his job. Why?

COLLINS: Yes, and he's just acting. He was never named to this in a permanent basis when Trump took office. But he was the person who has been serving in this position. And my colleague Priscilla Alvarez and I are now told he is essentially being moved off of that. He's not being outright fired, but being reassigned to another post and is no longer going to be the acting director anymore.

And this comes after we've heard Trump deny publicly that he's frustrated with the level of deportations that this administration has seen. But privately I am told that he has been complaining about that and saying they need to get those numbers up. Now, we know it's a very complicated process.

We've heard from officials like Tom Homan, Trump's border czar, who talk about the difficulty in carrying this out and especially with the lack of resources that they say they have when it comes to ICE officers and beds and detention beds to put these people in when they are detained by ICE.

And so that has really been a point of frustration to keep an eye on here as that moves on going forward when it comes to one of his biggest campaign promises. Because, yes, the numbers have been higher than they were when President Biden was in office, but they're still short of what the number that Trump has said he wants to get to when it comes to deportations his four years here in office. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thank you. And we'll be sure to watch you later on your show. The Source with Kaitlan Collins, 9:00 pm. This week, a Republican members of Congress and Democrats facing a flurry of frustrated constituents at town halls across the country, mainly over the mass firings pushed by DOGE and executed by agencies, as well as President Trump's use of executive power. CNN's Isabel Rosales shows us how everyday Americans are reacting to the orders coming out of Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are all freaking pissed off about this. You're going to hear it and feel it.

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A flurry of booze and Irene in Ruby Red northern Georgia, as hundreds of voters crowd Roswell City hall to confront GOP representative Rich McCormick for his backing of the Trump agenda.

REP. RICH MCCORMICK (R-GA): I came here to have a discussion. You -- I think a lot of you didn't come here in good faith to have a discussion. You came here to yell at me and to boo me.

[17:05:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to say for from a conservative perspective --

ROSALES: This constituent igniting a fiery exchange over massive federal layoffs led by administration's newly created Department of Government Efficiency. Just 20 miles away in Atlanta, around 1,000 workers fired at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention headquarters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is a supposedly conservative party taking such a radical and extremist and sloppy approach to this?

MCCORMICK: I'm in close contact with the CDC, those probationary people, which is about 10 percent of their employee base, which is about 1,300 people, which you're referring to. A lot of the work they do is duplicitous with AI.

ROSALES: I've read a lot of the comments on X saying that this was a room full of liberals.

GINNY LIM, DEMOCRATIC RESIDENT OF GEORGIA'S 7TH CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT: No, it was not a room full of liberals. It was a room full of average, normal, everyday Americans who are afraid of what is happening with our country.

ROSALES (voice-over): Jenny Lim, a Democrat from McCormick's district, tells me this White House post is what compelled her to attend the town hall.

LIM: Tyranny is rising in the White House and a man has declared himself our king. So I would like to know, rather the people would like to know what you congressman and your fellow congressmen are going to do to rein in the megalomaniac in the White House.

MCCORMICK: When you talk about tyranny, when you talk about presidential power, I remember having the same discussion with Republicans when Biden was elected.

ROSALES (voice-over): Brant Sturgill tells me he proudly voted for Trump three times. But when Trump called Ukraine's president a dictator.

BRANT STURGILL, REPUBLICAN RESIDENT OF GEORGIA'S 7TH CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT: This is embarrassment on the world stage, what was said by our president and I voted for Trump. You can't do that.

ROSALES: And on DOGE.

STURGILL: I think it's a mistake to do it too rapidly.

ROSALES (voice-over): Maggie Goldman, a Democrat, hopes the turnout is emblematic of a larger movement.

MAGGIE GOLDMAN, DEMOCRATIC RESIDENT OF GEORGIA'S 7TH CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT: Hopefully it's an opportunity to show other states that they can also get out and go to these town halls with their representatives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSALES: The seventh district is strongly Republican. Trump won here by over 20 points, McCormick by just north of 30. And Jake, I did find it interesting that I also heard appreciation from some of McCormick's constituents who came here to criticize him, but an appreciation that held a town hall in the first place.

TAPPER: All right, Isabel Rosales, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Congressman McCormick was, of course, not the only Republican facing backlash from constituents at town halls this week. Take a look at this moment from Republican Oregon Congressman Cliff Bentz' town hall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you tell those 10,000 people, it's okay? We lost 10 percent of our workforce.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut up and let him talk. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will not, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: With me now is Congressman Bentz from the 2nd district of Oregon. Congressman, were you surprised at all by the frustration you heard from your constituents about these firings?

REP. CLIFF BENTZ (R-OR): No, I don't think I was surprised. I'm -- that's because I'm going to say at least a half to sometimes two- thirds of the four town hall meetings I held were folks that worked for the federal government. So I was not surprised that they were upset about the downsizing of the federal agencies out here in eastern Oregon. So I wasn't surprised.

TAPPER: So there are different issues going on. One of them is just the downsizing itself. The other one is the way that the downsizing is being done with very little transparency, no apparent compassion. I want to read to you what Republican Senator John Curtis from Utah said about the firings. Quote, he said, I think if there's one thing I could change about the DOGE, the Department of Government Efficiency, it's that it's moving so fast. It's not really factoring in the human element, that these are real lives, real people, they have kids and we're really adding a tremendous amount of stress even to jobs that are not going to go away, unquote.

Do you have any issues yourself the way that these layoffs and firings are taking place?

BENTZ: You know, before we go to the way it's happening, just let me say that as I pointed out the town halls, that it's never a good thing to lose your job. So I understand why people would be upset about it, particularly a job as well paying and as normally secure, kind of a special class almost, that a federal employee enjoys.

So no surprise that people would be upset for losing such a good job, particularly out here in the eastern part of our state, which is in many cases pretty low income. But you are correct, it would be wonderful if we could do it in a more friendly way. But the truth of it is the way that the protections have been built in legally for federal employees, it's extraordinarily difficult to reduce the size of the workforce in the federal space.

[17:10:00]

And that's why I think you see it happening so abruptly and in a way that is unusual. Ronald Reagan said many times it's been quoted, government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth. And you can see why when you see how many people show up to try to protect the federal workforce.

So yes, I agree with John Curtis, the good friend, that you could be done less aggressively. But on the other hand, at least it's getting done.

TAPPER: I want you to look at this post from former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois. It says, hey, Congressional Republicans, where are your office cuts? Let me ask you, I mean, if it is truly important to reduce the size of the federal government, should Congress show their sincerity, demonstrate your sincerity by making 10 percent cuts to your staffs.

BENTZ: I would anticipate just such a suggestion. And we in fact discussed it with my staff literally over the past week. So it hasn't been suggested yet by leadership. But if it is so suggested, I will support it. I think everybody has to step up.

The Constitution requires that we protect our nation for posterity. We're not doing it. I was accused many times over the last couple of days at these four town hall meetings I held of not supporting the Constitution. I would suggest people go back and look at the preamble which says we're supposed to be concerned about our kids.

And so yes, I'm doing the constitutional hard work of trying to figure out how to shrink our budget down to a point that is somehow sustainable, that requires that kind of reduction of our staff. So be it.

TAPPER: Republican Congressman Cliff Bentz from the 2nd district of Oregon, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time. We should note were also supposed to speak with Georgia Congressman Rich McCormick. He was booked when we started the show. We were under the impression he was coming, but he canceled the appearance less than an hour ago.

Could Republican outrage over government cuts be enough to reignite a fire under Democrats? We'll discuss. Plus, Bill Gates opens up to Anderson Cooper on why he believes he may be on the autism spectrum, though he's never been diagnosed. It's a must see conversation. Anderson will join me ahead.

And later, smooth shaved faces are out and well groomed beards are in. What's behind the Yankees changing their anti-facial hair policy for the first time in nearly 50 years?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:16:27]

TAPPER: Staying in our politics lead, will the anger and outrage Republican and Democratic lawmakers are hearing change anything at the White House or at DOGE or on Congress? On Capitol Hill with Congress? Let's jump right in with our panel. T.W., we just heard from Congressman Bentz of Oregon. Do you think that the anger that they're hearing, and let's be honest, like they're hearing it from a lot of Republican constituents.

These are the district from McCormick and Windsor. These are Republican districts and a lot of them work for the government and they're still Republican. That's OK. And do you think it's going to change anything? Are we going to start to see Congress question the manner that these firings are happening?

T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT, PUSH DIGITAL GROUP: Yes, I'm not so sure quite yet. I've worked on Capitol Hill for a number of members of Congress, some in deep red districts, and oftentimes they were not in a hurry to do town halls because often you have indivisible and other groups packing the audience and they'll tell them, say you're a conservative.

Look, DOGE is probably wildly popular in that district. Donald Trump is still wildly popular in that district.

TAPPER: Sure.

ARRIGHI: And look, I think there's a point to be made. We should not be callous about the cuts being made by DOGE. I just had a friend lose his job just this week. It was heartbreaking. My dad ran a small business. I knew the pressure it put under him. But look, I'm more mad at the people who allowed the government to get this big enough, $36 trillion in debt.

DOGE needs to be more clear about what they're doing and why critics need to be slower to judgment. I heard with the FAA cuts and nuclear cuts that the nuclear codes were lost and planes were going to fall out of the sky. That's not accurate either.

So I think Democrats need to get more involved who say that they want less bloat and waste. And I think that, you know, DOGE, from a communication standpoint, needs to do a better job of saying why.

TAPPER: So what's the plan for Democrats here, do you think, Karen?

KAREN FINNEY, FORMER SERIOR ADVISER, HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN: Well, I think there's a couple of things right. Number one, what's interesting is that what we're seeing in these town halls actually is matching what we're seeing in the polling. And we're also seeing it in the consumer confidence numbers. People are losing confidence. They're concerned about the fact that prices are going up. People are losing their jobs. They're not hearing Trump talk about it.

And so I think it opens up a couple of opportunities for Democrats. Number one, we've got, you know, they had voterama for the budget. I think the budget conversation is going to be an opportunity for Democrats to be on offense about the things we're fighting for in terms of Social Security and Medicare and frankly, the work that Democrats did to lower health care costs and to lower cost of prescription drugs, something that Donald Trump wants to, you know, roll back.

At the same time, I think there's a second piece that hasn't hit yet, unfortunately, which is so people are losing their jobs and they're angry. Wait until then services start to slow down. We're almost in tax season. As an example, a lot of people in this country, if you're middle or low income, you run up your credit card debt thinking you're going to use your tax rebate to help pay that off. If that comes in a couple months late, that means that's more debt for people.

So I think the economic anxiety is going to increase. And that's another opportunity for Democrats to again go on offense and talk about what we're fighting for and how we would do things differently. And they need to talk about that.

TAPPER: And we're at just the beginning of this. I mean, this is just DOGE stage one, there's going to be a stage two where the cuts are going to be much bigger in terms of the number of people fired.

DASHA BURNS, WHITE HOSUE BUREAU CHIEF, POLITICO: Well, much bigger and much more likely to break some things that aren't so easy to fix and are potentially catastrophic for people in Republican districts. Right. I mean, there's a reason that they proceeded the way that they have.

USAID, easy for Republicans. Right. That's something that a lot of the Trump base has thought for a long time shouldn't function the way that it does. But now they're getting into stickier territory.

[17:20:00]

Now they're getting into areas that are not as cut and dry. And that's where the White House is starting to go. OK, let's try to tread a little more carefully, but Musk is out there with a chainsaw.

TAPPER: Yes, we heard T.W., we heard Kaitlan laying out the fight earlier today between the governor of Maine and President Trump. When it comes to President Trump's executive order banning trans athletes from women's sports, obviously this is ultimately going to end up in court, whether it's Mills suing Trump or Trump cutting off federal aid domain and Mills suing Trump again or whatever. How do you see this shaking out?

ARRIGHI: Donald Trump found a 75, 25 issue and ran on it hard. And for some reason, the Democrats want this to be the hill they die on. Look, I think every human being should be treated with love, dignity and respect. I don't care if you're trans or whatever you are, but there is a legitimate concern voiced by many Democrats that it's not unreasonable to say that a trans man should be playing with women's or a biological man should be playing in women's sports.

That there is -- every state has their own story. Growing up in Massachusetts, I had heard last year a horrible example of somebody getting wounded in a game of field hockey that made headlines across the country. Maine, I assure you this is a very unpopular issue for Governor Mills. It's a strange one for her to stake the flag on, in my opinion.

FINNEY: Well, but I think what you just said about treating people with dignity and respect, that's not what we've heard from the Trump administration. And that's the piece that I wish Democrats would articulate more. We can -- let's have the conversation about what's. I was a college athlete. I don't know how I feel about the issue if I'm being really honest.

At the same time, I would never have a conversation and demonize someone and other them the way we have heard Donald Trump do it. And that's the piece that I think we have to fight on.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks one and all. Appreciate it. A measles outbreak in the southwestern United States is getting worse, with cases and hospitalizations growing by the day. We'll take you near the epicenter of the outbreak. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:26:26]

TAPPER: Our health lead and explore explosive and upsetting rise in the cases of measles in West Texas. The outbreak has now reached 90 cases. That's 32 more than an update we gave you earlier this week. We asked you, our viewers, to submit questions about measles for CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who's here to answer them now.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEFMEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake, we got a lot of questions about this topic. I'm going to try and get to as many of them as I can. Mary from St. Charles, Illinois asks a question that was asked many times. She says, I'm 59 years old. Is the measles vaccine I was given as a child still protecting me?

First of all, I'm just a few years younger than you, Mary. This is something that I thought about as well. And the short answer to your question is yes, you should still have protection from the measles vaccine. It is supposed to be a lifelong vaccine. The first shot that you get usually gives you about 93 percent protection. The second shot up to 97 percent protection. It's not 100 percent but pretty good protection.

I will say there's about 1 percent of people who for various reasons, their overall immunity will start to wane over time. Or if they're concerned about this because they're living in the middle of a measles outbreak, there's something that they can do, which is to actually get their antibodies or their titers checked. Find out, do you still have measles antibodies in your bloodstream from your vaccination?

Jake, I was working on a documentary about transplant surgery. They wanted me to make sure that I was protected against measles. So I went ahead and had my titers checked. I'm in my mid-50s, my titers were fine. So for the vast majority of people, you should be protected if you got the measles vaccine.

Got another question here. This one's from Lara, who asks, should my 2-year-old grandson get his second dose of measles vaccine now instead of waiting until he's four like he normally would? Great question. And if you are living in the middle of a measles outbreak, this is a question that gets asked a lot just being on the ground.

Here in West Texas, people are asking this question and the answer is, you can go ahead and advance your second shot. Get it earlier than you would normally. The United States provides two vaccines, one usually around a year of age, the second one before kids start school. So somewhere around four years of age. That is the vaccine schedule in this country. Other countries do it differently.

You get the first shot around a year of age, then you can get the second shot six months a year after that. So I think the key is to make sure you have two shots. Now, the reason that they moved that second shot to around 4 years of age is to just make sure kids are as fully protected as possible before they start school.

But again, if you're worried about this or if you're living in the middle of a measles outbreak, getting that second shot earlier is not a bad idea. That's what the doctors here on the ground are saying.

One more question, Jake. Elizabeth, I'm 72 years old. I had measles as a child. I don't remember dying or children dying from this disease. Has measles become more virulent? No, measles is actually a pretty stable virus. It actually has not changed a lot.

But a couple things I want to point out. Before mass vaccination started, sort of in the mid-60s, deaths from measles were already coming down pretty significantly. And a lot of that had to do with just better medical care overall. But still there were several hundred people dying from measles.

If you look around the world. For example, before measles, before vaccines, rather, 1963, you had about two and a half million people, 2.6 million people roughly dying every year from measles.

[17:30:06]

After vaccinations, it dropped significantly. And just a couple years ago, it was 107,000, roughly, people who died around the world from measles, primarily in areas of the world where there weren't enough vaccines.

In the United States, before 1963, 400 to 500 people dying from measles every year. In 2015, one person died from measles. So again, death rates were already coming down, thankfully, before the vaccinations, because of better medical care.

But there were still, you know, several hundred people who were dying every year. So for -- for this -- this question, Elizabeth, you may not have known some of these 400 to 500 people who died every year. But what we do know is that vaccines have made a huge difference. Jake?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

In our faith lead, Pope Francis' doctor says the Pope will remain in the hospital for at least all of next week, too. The pontiff is battling double pneumonia in both of his lungs. However, his doctor says his condition is not immediately life-threatening. According to the doctor, the Pope is continuing to work and make jokes.

Coming up, Bill Gates opens up about his childhood and how he classed with his mother. Part of his one-on-one interview with Anderson Cooper is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:36:25] TAPPER: In today's Tech Lead, Anderson Cooper's new conversation with billionaire Bill Gates. Gates is almost 70 years old, co-founder of Microsoft. The tech mogul turned philanthropist is looking back on his life in a way he never has before in a new memoir called "Source Code: My Beginnings," Gates sat down with Anderson for Sunday's episode of The Whole Story and revealed his belief that he may be on the autism spectrum.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Gates now says if he were a child today, he'd likely be diagnosed as having some form of autism.

COOPER: Do you think you're on the spectrum?

BILL GATES, MICROSOFT CO-FOUNDER: I definitely think that term is used broadly enough that I fit into that. You know, it's kind of complex how people do the criteria. You know, would I have been given medicine for that? You know, we're a lot more prescriptive now.

COOPER: But nobody ever said to you as a child, you're autistic or you should be.

GATES: No, that term just wasn't used.

COOPER: You also write in the book about rocking. That's something obviously that people with autism often do. Is that something that you did that as a child?

GATES: Even now, if I go off and I'm really concentrating on something without meaning to, I -- I can start going like this, you know, just some self-comfort type thing. And it really bugs people.

COOPER (voice-over): Gates was lucky. His parents were well aware he needed intellectual stimulation, and they made a decision when he was 12 that led to an extraordinarily rare and life changing encounter with the computer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Fascinating stuff. CNN's Anderson Cooper joins me now. Anderson, Bill Gates, obviously a well-known figure in business and tech. He has not spoken much, as far as I can tell, about his childhood. And now he's revealing that he is possibly on the autism spectrum. Why does he think he's on the spectrum be -- beyond the rocking? And how come he's never been tested?

COOPER: He -- yes, he has not ever formally -- formally been tested. I don't think he really sort of feels the need to. I -- I think he's -- he's, I mean, he's very openly saying he -- he believes he -- he would have a diagnosis of -- of being somewhere on the autism spectrum at -- at this point. You know, I think he realized early on as a child, I mean, a very young child, that his brain operated in a different way than a lot of the people around him.

He had this ability early on to what he called hyper focus on things, reading everything he could possibly get his hands on a -- on a particular subject, which is something he still does to this day. But he was doing that very early on. And even when he used to play cards with his grandmother as a -- as a, you know, five -- starting out like as a five-year-old, he started to try to understand the strategy she was playing and realized that he could kind of figure out her strategy. And he came to start to beat his grandmother after analyzing and sort of hyper focusing on her card play.

He calls that sort of a super -- he realized that as a child, that he thought of it as sort of a superpower. And obviously, that led to his intense fascination with that computer that he gained access to at 12.

TAPPER: So in your conversation, you -- you also talked about how he clashed with his mom as a kid. Let -- let me play a little bit of that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): But he liked math more than sports and books more than socializing. Above all else, he loved thinking and learning. And he'd started to understand the power of his own intellect. And that led to conflict with his parents, especially his mom. By nine, he was openly challenging her and refusing to follow her rules.

[17:40:06]

GATES: By then, there's things I actually understand a little bit better than my mom does. Like she's on a bank board and I'm saying to her, how do you do the -- the loan risk calculations? And, you know, you -- maybe you shouldn't be on that board. I'm just play -- playing --

COOPER: Oh, and maybe you shouldn't be on that board?

GATES: Yes, because you can't do the math.

COOPER: Nice.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Bill Gates, obviously brilliant, obviously a visionary. Also has a reputation for not just being competitive, but sometimes abrasive, even harsh in his dealings. It sounds like that's not just competitiveness. It's just kind of who he is as early as when he was a child.

COOPER: I -- I do think he has changed a lot in his management style, certainly since the days of -- of Microsoft. I think he's heard a lot of -- of the complaints and the criticism that he received back then. He was legendarily, especially early on at Microsoft, very, very difficult. He held himself to very high standards, worked relentlessly and kind of expected everybody else to do that.

I talked to him about it. It -- it really does go back to a lot of the things in his childhood. He said that, you know, his -- first of all, he -- he -- his dad told him later on in life that at around the age of nine, he kind of turned into an adult overnight and what his dad called an argumentative and not very nice adult.

And Gates talks about how his kind of understanding of social cues and the world around other -- the feelings of others around him took a long time to or a while to develop. And -- and he didn't really see the impact his behavior would have on other people. And that took time. And I think the -- maybe that's where some of that criticism and his behavior as, you know, the -- the -- the -- the -- the toughness of his leadership style early on may have come from.

TAPPER: It -- it's so -- what a great opportunity and how fascinating to have this type of insight into somebody like Bill Gates. What was your biggest takeaway from your conversation with him?

COOPER: I -- I mean, two things. I mean, I -- I'm just amazed at if you look at Gates as a child, the -- the -- the line is so clear to the person he is today from the influence of his father, who is very, you know, was kind of a civic leader. Gates obviously now has morphed into this, I mean, he's given away more than $100 billion and is deeply focused on global health, you know, improving education around the world, the climate change as well.

And so much of that comes from -- from those early days and the fact that he had access to a computer. I mean, he had this -- it was just by luck that his parents decided to send him to the school because they knew he needed stimulation. And the school, like the moms in the school, raised money to get access to -- to a computer. And he and like three other friends were the ones who figured it out.

TAPPER: Interesting stuff. Anderson Cooper, thanks so much. And I'll be sure to watch. I'm sure you will at home as well. The interview with Bill Gates airs this Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper only here on CNN.

[17:43:09]

The Justice Department is cracking down on violent rhetoric from Democrats, they say. Why they're now investigating a top Democrat for his choice words about Elon Musk. That congressman joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, the top prosecutor in Washington, D.C. is investigating Democratic lawmakers for, in his view, threatening political violence. Trump picked 2020 election denier and former defense attorney for January 6th rioters, Ed Martin, to become the U.S. attorney here in Washington, D.C. Acting in the interim, one of Martin's first actions was an initiative aimed to prosecute threats against public officials. For example, he is targeting Democratic Congressman Robert Garcia for this comment that he made on CNN about Elon Musk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): And I think that he's also harming the American public in an enormous way. And what I think is really important and what the American public want is for us to bring actual weapons to this bar fight. This is an actual fight for democracy, for the future of this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In a letter to Garcia, the U.S. Attorney Martin wrote, quote, this sounds to some like a threat to Mr. Musk, an appointed representative of President Donald Trump, unquote. Let's bring in Congressman Garcia from California. So, Congressman, do you want to clarify your comments at all? Did you mean to say you would bring actual weapons to a bar fight?

GARCIA: I -- I mean, look, I think it's pretty clear, Jake. I mean, no reasonable person would view what I said, of course, here on CNN as a -- as a threat. It's a figure of speech. I think it's one that's pretty well known and pretty common. And I think what's really disturbing about this is that essentially the -- the Department of Justice under Donald Trump is going to try to silence opposition and try to silence people that are actually taking on and trying to actually bring attention to what Elon Musk is actually trying to do to our agencies. So that's what this is about. It's incredibly concerning. But I don't think that figure, you know, figure of speech or metaphors should somehow be not allowed in our debate -- public debate from members of Congress.

TAPPER: I'm with you 100 percent. But just the word actual is -- is -- is standing out there. And you don't mean actual weapons. You mean rhetorical weapons?

GARCIA: Of course. I mean, we're talking about -- I was talking about a -- a rhetorical bar fight.

[17:50:01]

TAPPER: Right.

GARCIA: And I think, you know, we -- we, you know, whether you're saying fight fire with fire or we're going to, you know, we're beat -- we're engaged in this fight. I mean, these are obviously things that everyone knows. No reasonable person is going to watch that clip and -- and take anything from that. So I think it's really unfortunate, obviously, but it's not going to silence me. It shouldn't silence anyone else.

I think what -- what's important at this moment is that we are actually standing up for our constituents back home. I've been home for a few days. I've had nothing but overwhelming support from folks saying, thank you for fighting for us. Thank you for standing up against Elon Musk and Donald Trump.

TAPPER: So it is interesting because both President Trump and Elon Musk fan -- fancy themselves as First Amendment warriors. And yet, this action by U.S. Attorney Martin is not for -- the action of a First Amendment warrior.

GARCIA: Absolutely. And -- and First Amendment, free speech, I mean, all we hear about oftentimes from Elon Musk is about free speech, you know, on his platform in the country. And -- and -- and now we're going to police metaphors and figures of speech. So it -- it is -- it is both bizarre and actually quite serious and dangerous. I think that you're -- what they're trying to do is intimidate members of Congress. It's not just about me. And actually trying to limit our public criticism of the administration.

Not -- and not to mention, of course, that members of Congress have the ability to actually speak out for protection of the Constitution to oppose the administration if we disagree with what they're doing. And so I think all of this is -- is just an effort by -- by Donald Trump, by Elon Musk to try to silence critics. It should be opposed. It should be called out. I mean, it's really not going to make me or anybody else back down from opposing Donald Trump and Elon Musk.

TAPPER: Have you responded to U.S. Attorney Martin? What -- what is your -- I mean, obviously, you think it's ridiculous. You've said so. But -- but I mean, are you writing back to him or are you calling him? What are you doing about this?

GARCIA: You know, he's given us to next week, mid next week to -- to respond. You know, we're -- we're going to take -- we'll think about what that official response to be -- will be. But I, you know, look, at the end of the day, we're not -- I haven't stopped speaking out against Elon Musk or Donald Trump's policy since we got that letter. We have Elon Musk raiding the federal treasury, going after Social Security, taking on Medicare.

We've seen the Republican budget that's coming out that'll be voted on, I'm sorry, next week that actually looking at cutting food assistance from people that actually really need it, including 40,000 people in my own district back home. So I'm going to continue to speak out. And I encourage Democrats, the public, we -- we've got to be vocal in our opposition.

And I think one thing that you are hearing from people, and I'm certainly hearing it back home, is that people want us to be tough. People want us to be aggressive in our approach of taking on the dismantling of our federal institutions. And -- and -- and that shouldn't stop, and it's certainly not going to stop for me.

TAPPER: Congressman Robert Garcia, a Democrat of California, thank you so much, good to see you, sir.

The New York Yankees relax their strict facial hair policy that's been in effect since the 1970s. Why are well-groomed beards suddenly OK? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:56:29]

TAPPER: Our Sports Lead now. It's a whole new look for the New York Yankees. Gone is the decades-long rule requiring the entire American League team to have clean-shaven faces. Beards, specifically, quote, well-groomed beards, unquote, are now allowed for both Yankees players and coaches for the first time since the 1970s. USA Today Sports columnist Christine Brennan joins us. Christine, first of all, this whole subject is weird. Let me just say that right now. Is this all the result of the Yankees losing Juan Soto by a hair? It's just a joke there. So now they've grown -- now they're -- they're decided to grow beards. What is behind this?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Yes. The managing partner, Jake, of the Yankees, Hal Steinbrenner, who, of course, is the son of George Steinbrenner, who started this whole thing back in 1976. Steinbrenner was concerned that they're actually going to lose players and may well be hearing from players saying, we don't want to play for you if that's going to be the policy. And he said if that's the case, this is the managing partner now, Hal Steinbrenner, if that's the case, if the Yankees are losing players because of this policy, he said, I don't want to lose players because of this policy.

And so that's why this very old-school way of looking at things back in the 70s with his dad, that is now gone. And it's basically the reality of what today's players want to do. How they want to live their lives and, obviously, look. And they won this battle over that old-school look of clean-shaven and -- and less facial hair and -- and shorter hair in general. That -- that philosophy that was going on with the Yankees now for, what, close to 50 years.

TAPPER: It -- it just seems so stupid. It's such a Nixon-era rule. You can hear Steinbrenner thinking that those are hippies and long hairs. It's just -- you can smell the men in -- in that rule. Anyway, in the world of hockey, Canada won the first-ever Four Nations Faceoff Championship last night, beating the United States 3-2. It was an overtime thriller. Christine, this tournament featuring the U.S., Canada, Sweden, and Finland appeared to exceed everyone's expectations.

BRENNAN: It did, Jake, and it -- it was riveting. And -- and, of course, basically, we know we love the Olympics, which are a year from now. You know, when you've got country against country in almost anything, even the Ryder Cup or the Solheim Cup, that just makes it fun.

In this case, of course, the stakes were so much higher because of the president saying that he wants to make Canada the 51st state. And he was calling the locker room, and he's all about the U.S. And the game was in Boston, not in Montreal, where the Canadians had booed the U.S. national anthem earlier in the tournament. So they're playing U.S.- Canada, all the marbles in Boston, and Canada wins the game.

And the bragging rights for Justin Trudeau, the way he was able to say, you know, hey, we won this game, this is our game, this is our country, the back-and-forth on social media, a lot of fun, but the overtones were very serious. And I think there's probably some Americans, U.S. citizens, who are probably pretty happy that Canada won as well, if they are not fans of Donald Trump. And those who are fans of Donald Trump, well, he's now 0 for 2 because he wanted the U.S. against Canada. That didn't happen. And, of course, he wanted the Chiefs to win the Super Bowl. And as you well know as an Eagles fan, that also did not happen. TAPPER: It did not. I don't know that he wanted the Chiefs, just to -- in -- in fairness to Mr. Trump, I don't know that he wanted the Chiefs to win the Super Bowl. He predicted that they would win the Super Bowl. Either way, he was wrong. Christine Brennan, thank you so much. Appreciate it. It's always good to see you.

Coming up Sunday on State of the Union, I'm going to speak with the U.S. Special Envoy to the Middle East, Steve Witkoff, also House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries of New York. That's Sunday morning at 9:00 Eastern and again at noon only here on CNN.

[18:00:04]

A big programming note, starting March 3rd, that's a week from Monday, The Lead is on the move. We're moving to a new time slot. We're going to go an hour later from 5:00 to 7:00 p.m. Eastern every weekday here on CNN.

You can follow the show on X at TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show once you get your podcast. The news continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer in The Situation Room. I'll see you Sunday morning.