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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Zelenskyy Leaves White House Early After Oval Office Shouting Match; Vatican: Pope Francis Put On Breathing Machine. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired February 28, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:37]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Dana Bash, in for Jake Tapper.
And we start with the explosive meeting at the White House. What Ukraine and its allies hoped would be a chance to make nice was anything but a shouting match with President Trump and Vice President Vance berating the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, a meeting so hostile the planned news conference after the session was canceled. A plan to sign a rare earth minerals deal put on ice.
And a White House official says President Trump ordered that Zelenskyy be told to leave the White House.
We want you to watch what happened for yourself, starting the moment it all took a dramatic turn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States' words mattered more than the president of the United States' actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That's what President Trump is doing.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Can I ask you?
VANCE: Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
ZELENSKYY: Okay. So he occupied it, our parts, big parts of Ukraine, part of east and Crimea. So he occupied it on 2014. So, during a lot of years, I'm not speaking about just Biden, but those times was Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump. And God bless. Now president Trump will stop him.
But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took -- he killed people. You know what the contact --
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: 2015.
ZELENSKYY: 2014.
VANCE: 2014.
TRUMP: 2014.
ZELENSKYY: Yeah.
TRUMP: I was not here.
ZELENSKYY: Yeah, but, exactly, right. Yes. But during 2014 until 2022, you know what the situation the same that people are been dying on the contact line.
Nobody stopped him. You know that we had conversations with him a lot of conversations, bilateral conversation. And we signed with him me like a new president in 2019, I signed with him the deal. I signed with him, Macron and Merkel. We signed ceasefire, ceasefire.
All of them told me that he will never go. We signed him, gas contract, gas contract. Yes. But after that he broken the ceasefire. He killed our people and he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn't do it.
What kind of diplomacy, J.D., you are speaking about? What -- what -- what -- what do you mean?
VANCE: I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country.
ZELENSKYY: Yes.
VANCE: Mr. President, Mr. President, with respect, I think its disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office and try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict.
ZELENSKYY: Have you ever been to Ukraine, that you say what problems we have?
VANCE: I have been to --
ZELENSKYY: Come once.
VANCE: I have actually -- I've actually watched and seen the stories and I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour. Mr. President, do you disagree that you've had problems bringing people into your military? And do you think that it's respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to trying to prevent the destruction of your country?
ZELENSKYY: A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning. Sure. First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future.
God bless.
TRUMP: You don't know that.
ZELENSKYY: God bless. God bless.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel.
ZELENSKYY: I'm not telling you --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: -- because you're in no position to dictate that.
ZELENSKYY: You will feel influenced
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You're in no position to dictate what were going to feel. We're going to feel very good. We're going to feel very good and very strong.
ZELENSKYY: You will feel influenced.
TRUMP: You're right now not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position, and it happens to be right about.
ZELENSKYY: From the very beginning of the war --
(CROSSTALK)
[16:05:02]
TRUMP: You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards.
ZELENSKYY: I'm not playing cards.
TRUMP: Right now, you don't -- you're playing.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You're playing cards. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III. You're gambling with World War III.
And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country that's backed you, far more than a lot of people said they should have.
VANCE: Have you said thank you once this entire meeting? No. In this entire meeting, have you said thank you?
You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October, offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country.
ZELENSKYY: Please, you think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you can --
TRUMP: He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble.
ZELENSKYY: Can I --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: No, no, you've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble.
ZELENSKYY: I know.
TRUMP: You're not winning. You're not winning this. You have a good chance of coming out okay because of us.
ZELENSKYY: President, we are staying in our country, staying strong, from the very beginning of the war, we've been alone, and we are thankful. I said thanks in this cabinet.
TRUMP: You haven't been alone. You haven't been alone.
We gave you, through the stupid president, $350 billion. You we gave you military equipment.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You and your men are brave, but they had to use our military.
ZELENSKYY: What about --
TRUMP: If you didn't have our military equipment.
ZELENSKY: You invited --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: If you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks.
ZELENSKYY: In three days.
TRUMP: OK.
ZELENSKYY: I heard it from Putin in three days. This is something --
TRUMP: Maybe less.
ZELENSKYY: In two weeks. Of course, yes. TRUMP: It's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this, I
tell you.
VANCE: You say thank you except -- except that there -- except --
ZELENSKYY: I said a lot of times to the American people.
VANCE: Except that there are disagreements and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media when you're wrong, we know that you're wrong.
TRUMP: But you see, I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on. I think it's very important. That's why I kept this going so long.
You have to be thankful. You don't have the cards.
ZELENSKYY: I'm thankful.
TRUMP: You're buried there. Your people are dying.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You're running low on soldiers.
Listen, you're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good thing -- and then you -- then you tell us. I don't want a ceasefire. I don't want a ceasefire. I want to go, and I want this.
I -- look, if you could get a cease fire right now, I tell you, you take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed.
ZELENSKYY: Of course, we want to stop the war.
TRUMP: Are you saying you don't want to ceasefire?
ZELENSKYY: But I said to you --
TRUMP: I want a ceasefire.
ZELENSKYY: -- with guarantees.
TRUMP: Because you'll get a ceasefire faster than an agreement.
ZELENSKYY: Ask how our people about this fire what they think.
TRUMP: That wasn't with me, that wasn't with me.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: That was with a guy named Biden who was not a smart person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: I want to get right to CNN's Jeff Zeleny at the White House. Nick Paton Walsh in Ukraine's capital. Thanks to you both for being here. We watched this unfold in real
time. Now we've had several hours to not only digest it, but talk to a lot of our sources about this.
And, Jeff, on that note, a U.S. official tells CNN that Trump- Zelenskyy relationship, quote, seems irreparable. What are you hearing from your sources there?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It certainly seemed like it was in the Oval Office. The question is, will that change? I am told that the president still means what he said in a social media message shortly after that, he said President Zelenskyy can return to the White House when he is ready to make peace.
But of course, there is so much more packed into that. That exchange really started with Vice President Vance. It was a very long, we should point out. This was at the end of a pretty long session there, and it was all going very pleasant. There were pleasantries between the two presidents back and forth, but it was Vice President Vance at the end who raised some objections.
Of course, he's a longtime skeptic and a critic of the U.S. sending assistance to Ukraine. And then Zelenskyy clapped back at the vice president, and then it went from there.
So going forward here, the question, does the president of the United States, Donald Trump, want Zelenskyy to resign? Does he believe that he is the leader who can work to negotiate some type of a minerals deal and perhaps some type of a peace accord? We do not know.
But we do know that Senator Lindsey Graham, a close ally of the president who had lunch with the president after all of this, he came out, was sent out by the White House to say that he wonders if Zelenskyy should resign.
So that is one of the next questions we have here. And we should point out, there were so many things ready for a deal to be made today. The lunch was sitting out in the West Wing for there to be a working lunch. There was a long dining table in the east room with flags from both countries there for Trump and Zelenskyy to be at their seats, and Trump wanted to make a deal today. That was clear.
One thing that was unclear what security guarantees would come with it. Obviously none. And at the end of this day here, the question is when will these talks, if ever, resume?
[16:10:03]
But one thing we know for certain, Vladimir Putin is today's winner.
BASH: Yeah, no question about that. Thanks, Jeff.
And, Nick, now to you. It is true that everything was ready to go. We -- we weren't even sure what the everything was. We didn't know any of the details of whatever this agreement was supposed to be. But, you know, I've now watched it several times, as I know you have. And it was clear that the Ukrainian president couldn't help himself
when J.D. Vance interjected and said, we need diplomacy. And he felt the need to say, well, yeah, kind of we do, too. But how can we trust Vladimir Putin when we have had deals in the past that he has just blown through?
Having said that, you can tell that Zelenskyy is trying to find a way, sort of back a little bit. He posted the following on X. He said, thank you, America. Thank you for your support. Thank you for your visit. Thank you, POTUS, Congress and the American people. A lot of "thank yous" in there.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, a lot of thank yous in there. But frankly, it seems a little late now. The damage significantly done.
U.S. official I spoke to saying, we can't fix this. It's up to Zelenskyy to fix this. And the sort of embers, potentially, of European diplomacy here firing up a little. French President Emmanuel Macron on the phone to Zelenskyy, according to a Ukrainian source, NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte also, and the European council president Costa as well.
This obviously the Europeans rallying around Ukraine, many statements of support across social media from European leaders. But there are also suggestions, too, that maybe this Oval Office meeting went a little too far. A source familiar with the negotiations, before suggesting that Zelenskyy's team pushed hard for it, despite some uncertainties amongst U.S. officials that it really the relationship was strong enough there.
But I think Zelenskyy really struggling to listen to the concept that Russia can be trusted in diplomacy, which anyone who's observed them over the last ten years is familiar, particularly here in Ukraine, deals with Moscow don't normally hold. And that's actually the position of most of Ukraine's European allies who've been around for the earlier parts of this war.
Where do we go from now? Well, I think we are in a Ukraine now, reeling from the likely loss of U.S. aid, the key plank of their support, the likelihood that's going to have an impact on the battlefield. And of course, now, most importantly, the fate of their leader not necessarily in doubt in the minds of Ukrainian hearts, but potentially a key issue if it comes to trying to restore the U.S. support that they and their European allies know they probably cant succeed here without.
BASH: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much. Jeff Zeleny, thanks to you as well.
I now want to bring in CNN chief international anchor Christiane Amanpour, former State Department spokesman Ned Price, and CNN national security analyst Beth Sanner.
Christiane, we were watching this together. You were all of us with your hands, sort of clutching your face again to you, just as I said to Nick and Jeff. Now we have had time to digest and learn what happened after that, which is Zelenskyy left the White House. No signed deal. The Trump administration officials there are saying that he was asked to leave.
What do you think happens now? I know what we saw was unprecedented. So perhaps its unfair to ask you to look into the future based on the fact that we've never seen what happened today.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Yeah, we never have. And it's really time for the grown-ups to get back into the room. That was a truly despicable display.
And even, you know, there's an avalanche of support for Zelenskyy from all his European counterparts. He's spoken to them. He's spoken to the NATO chief, as you just heard, and there's just a huge amount on social media saying we know who the aggressor is. I'm talking about foreign ministers, presidents and the like.
We know who the aggressor is. We stand with Ukraine very, very interestingly, the former president of Georgia. Georgia, you know, former Soviet republic, which is occupied in part by the Russian forces that Putin sent in there in 2007, said, you know, when I first became president, one of the key things I was told by a colleague, you are allowed any move, but never, never humiliate your counterpart. And that is something that just happened in the White House.
We hear from the Russians who are just thrilled by all of this, saying that not only and using terrible language, which I'm not going to repeat. Not only did Zelenskyy get a slap in the face, but we must now make sure he gets no more arms.
This is their playbook. They want to separate the -- you know, the international community. They want to divide and conquer the supporters of Ukraine. They want to wait out the West.
Putin always said that we will wait out because the West will get tired, or the West will get fed up.
[16:15:03]
And that is what was on display in the White House today. Vice President J.D. Vance has never liked Ukraine or Zelenskyy. He said publicly, I don't care what happens to Ukraine about a year or so again.
So that's where we are right now. And really, the world is watching to see on which side does this America stand? Is it for freedom? Is it for a credible American, you know, its values that it likes to project and has so successfully over the hundreds of years? Or is it pro- Putin?
That is what all the reaction from the NATO -- you know, the Zelenskyy allies has been. Those are the questions.
BASH: Christiane, I just want everyone to stand by because I now have with us Democratic Senator Mark Warner of Virginia. He is the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.
Senator, thank you for being here.
Let's pick up where Christiane left off, the consequences of this meeting and kind of the big picture. And what do you think the answer is to that question? Where does the U.S. stand right now with Donald Trump and J.D. Vance and the -- the -- what happened in the Oval Office and how this is being perceived in capitals across the globe?
SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): Well, Dana, I like I think most Americans were shocked. I guess in retrospect, if we think back way back to Monday of this week when the United States did something unbelievable, or at least this administration did, and in the U.N. voted with Russia, Iran, North Korea, Nicaragua against the absolutely true statement that Russia started the war in Ukraine. America voted with the axis of evil on Monday, and people were reeling.
What's been surprising this week is, you know, I had a meeting yesterday, a number of U.S. senators with the head of the Ukrainian secret services, intelligence services, they always start every meeting and thank America. They do it repeatedly. I've been in dozens of meetings with Ukrainians, including Zelenskyy, over the last couple of years. They always are deeply appreciative of American assistance.
Remember, they've had 400,000 Ukrainians die in this three year war. At the same time, they've taken out 700,000 Russian troops, decimated a lot of Russia's military.
BASH: So, what does this about?
WARNER: And what that leaves us with now is if the rug is pulled out and Putin becomes the big winner and a forced ceasefire, not only that disaster for Ukraine, but if anybody believes that Putin will stop at Ukraine, that he doesn't have in his eyes the Baltic states, Poland and others, they are not students of history.
BASH: Well, that is, I believe, what president Zelenskyy was trying to get at when he said the following. I want you to listen to this portion of the meeting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you, but you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future.
God bless --
TRUMP: You don't know that.
ZELENSKYY: God bless. God bless, you will not have a war.
TRUMP: Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel.
ZELENSKYY: I'm not telling you. TRUMP: Because you're in no position to dictate that.
Remember that --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: -- you're in no position to dictate what were going to feel. We're going to feel very good. We're going to feel very good and very strong.
ZELENSKYY: I'm telling you, you will feel influenced.
TRUMP: You're right now not in a very good position.
ZELENSKYY: And, Senator, the president, President Trump went on to say that Zelenskyy doesn't have the cards and he's gambling with World War III. President Trump and the people around him say that president Zelenskyy was being disrespectful there. What's your read?
WARNER: I think -- well, my read is that President Zelenskyy was not going to sit by, and as senior members of the administration fabricate a story about who was the aggressor, you know, he's got 400,000 dead Ukrainians that he has to stand up for. He's got a country that, yes, is pressed against the wall that does need American assistance.
But I grew up at a time, you know, when we always thought our adversary would be Russia. Ukraine, in many ways, has taken on Russia. They are -- and taken out literally 2 to 1 in terms of Russian assets and without the cost of a single NATO soldier.
What I worry about, and for the president to say, somehow we will never feel bad, will I look at our Canadian friends? I mean, my mom's family is all Canadian. You know, the Canadians feel like they are under huge threat in this geopolitical -- dismiss the tariffs for a moment. And the understanding that Trump threatened to kick Canada out of the Five Eyes alliances.
This is a resetting of the whole table of post-World War Two geopolitics.
BASH: Real quick, Senator.
WARNER: And at the end of the day, I think we're going to be a bit of a loser in this long term.
BASH: Real quick, you said at the beginning of our conversation that the U.S. voted with the axis of evil.
[16:20:04]
Is that what you think this is suggesting, starting with that vote and what we saw today?
WARNER: Those words were not my -- let me just be clear.
BASH: Yeah. WARNER: The axis of evil is not been my terminology, but it has been used by politicians in the past. And who do they talk about? Iran. North Korea. Russia.
BASH: No, I understand, but are you are you saying that this is a realignment of the U.S.
WARNER: We bullied Israel into voting with us.
Pardon me?
BASH: Are you saying that this is a realignment?
WARNER: I'm saying it was not -- I am saying that the vote on Monday where we wouldn't even state the truth about who started the war three years ago -- when our own intelligence were the folks that picked this up first. And actually, we were ahead of the Europeans on making sure we knew what Putin's view was to try to take not a bit of Ukraine, but the whole thing to refute that.
Now, three years later, is stunning to me. Absolutely. And the number of my Republican colleagues I was, we had a number of the Republicans meeting with President Macron, Democrats and Republicans in the national security leadership. We were all united in trying to make the case.
Yes, France, make the case to president. We need to stay united with our European allies. I just hope my Republican friends, you know, are willing to state what their quiet views have been in terms of the long term value of NATO and the Five Eyes and the kind of post-World War II relationships that are key.
We've always prided ourselves on having allies and friends and not simply having client states or customers. I'm fearful that that can be undone if you have an administration that views everything as a short term real estate transaction and not a long term, potentially geopolitical realignment, which I hope is not taking place, but you sure can feel that buzz coming out of Moscow with Russian leadership saying this may be the opportunity to literally split America from the rest of democratic allies around the world, that would be a disaster.
BASH: Senator Mark Warner, the top Democrat on the Senate intelligence committee, thank you so much for being here, sir.
WARNER: Thanks, Dana.
BASH: And we'll be right back with our panel. And also talk to a Republican lawmaker about the explosive meeting in the White House.
Plus, why Zelenskyy's clothing choices today may have set a tone before the conversations started. We'll explain and question that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:26:23] BASH: And we are back with our breaking news, more reaction to that Oval Office meeting. The screaming match that ended up happening between Donald Trump and the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, devolved right before our eyes.
Our panel is back.
Ned Price, you worked during the Biden administration at the State Department. You were the spokesperson there. I'd love your reaction to what we witnessed as somebody who has been involved in delicate diplomatic events for the cameras and behind the scenes, as well.
NED PRICE, FORMER BIDEN STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Dana, like you, I have watched this exchange many times over the course of the day to day, and each and every time, the same feeling of -- of almost physical queasiness washes over me. And yes, it's because as a professional, I've worked in and around that office over the course of many years, I think even more so it's because as an American, I and all of us revere that office. We know it to be the setting where successive American presidents have stood on the side of liberty, of freedom of democracy, have really given meaning to the moniker that is attached to the occupant of that office, the leader of the free world.
And, Dana as you know, what we saw today was not that. It was quite the opposite. It was, I think, an ambush. And I think it was a premeditated ambush for political points. President Trump said in the aftermath of -- of this session that sometimes these things are clarifying.
And I think he was actually telling the truth in that case, because he said something with Zelenskyy and with the other European leaders earlier this week that he and Putin have been through hell together. And I think its becoming clear that he is kindred spirits with Putin. He feels a kindred spirit with him because he sees Putin as a fellow victim in what he calls the Russia hoax. He sees Zelenskyy as someone who perpetrated his first impeachment and led him down that path.
So, really, he has a warped view of this that puts not America's security interests first and foremost, but his own political grievances. This is an agenda of political retribution on a global scale, I'm afraid, Dana.
BASH: And, Beth Sanner, pick up there where Ned left off. I mean, there is so much baggage there, Beth. So much baggage that goes back many, many years, starting with that attempt by President Trump the first time around to get Zelenskyy to look into Joe Biden and Zelenskyy wouldn't do it. It did end up with an impeachment in the House of Representatives, as you well remember.
Understanding that history and -- and as you kind of were saying before, the utter exhaustion that Zelenskyy must be feeling, then you see and hear Russia dancing, you know, on the ceiling, basically, they're so happy.
This is what the foreign minister posted. The insolent pig finally got a proper slap down in the Oval Office. And Donald Trump is right. The Kyiv regime is gambling with World War III. You are a former intelligence official. You actually have been in the oval office with Donald Trump. You didn't work as a political appointee, but you were an official who actually briefed him on intelligence.
With all of that understanding and background, what is your take on what happened?
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Zelenskyy, unfortunately, pushed all those buttons and he did it the other day. He did it again today in the Oval Office. And J.D. Vance was waiting to make his, as Ned said, his political points and doubled down on that.
And now Russia is, absolutely, as Jeff said earlier, Putin walks away as the big winner today because this will split us and Europe.
[16:30:04]
This will split us with the victim here. This will make us closer to aggressors. And in the end, you know, right now, we're the anchor of security in the world, and where this leads us is to be net exporters of insecurity.
BASH: Christiane, are -- is the United States still the anchor of security in the world, or is this a signal that -- that that is changing?
AMANPOUR: Well, it's certainly a signal that that's changing. But it's not just -- just -- just what happened today, the catastrophe of the Oval Office. But its what's happened since President Trump, A, was on the campaign, and B, since he's been inaugurated.
And his first 30 odd days in power, he has basically been telegraphing that loud and clear. And frankly, so did J.D. Vance at the Munich security conference, where he didn't talk a whit about security or defense, barely even mention Ukraine and Russia, and made it a very culture war politics and foreign policy.
But I think very, very importantly to say is as the as the reaction is coming in from overseas, the former Swedish prime minister, you know, Sweden is one of the latest NATO members said he tweeted is even more clear after this remarkable Oval Office that the Trump team was utterly unprepared for the realities of the Russia war against Ukraine and what making peace will have to entail. That's the bottom line.
And I think everybody, every American, everybody in the world, we should be aware of what happened the last time President Trump made unilateral peace deals, it was with Afghanistan. It was not with the elected government of Afghanistan that the U.S. and NATO supported, but it was with the Taliban.
So that's the way he sees this. He's been saying publicly that were far down the line with Putin on -- on -- on peace deals. And I think you have to be very we have to explore what that exactly means. What would a good deal mean? And right now, it appears to be off the table, unless they can restore this. But it's generally assumed that the Europeans will have to step up and keep arming Ukraine, and Ukraine will fight on. It's not going to surrender.
BASH: I think that the Swedish I think it was the prime minister, you said. Maybe should -- should spend some time on the campaign trail or with Trump people here, because I think that Donald Trump and J.D. Vance do exactly what they were doing and -- and playing to a lot of the promises.
AMANPOUR: Yeah, but that's different. That's different, he said, unprepared for the realities of making peace.
BASH: Yeah.
AMANPOUR: Not the political realities. Clearly, they knew what they were doing for their own domestic audience. But this is about international war and peace and the rules of the international law. Thou shalt not invade your neighbor.
BASH: Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you or him, but I'm not entirely sure that that Donald Trump has that same outlook. In fact, I don't think he does.
Thank you all. Appreciate it.
Up next, a Republican will join me who has long supported Ukraine. He recently called for some kind of peace deal to be worked out. Well, what does he think of what he saw today in the oval office?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:37:41]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: But you're not acting at all thankful. And that's not a nice thing. I'll be honest, that's not a nice thing.
All right. I think we've seen enough. What do you think? Huh?
This is -- this is going to be great television. I will say that. All right. Well see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: It was certainly something.
Joining me now is Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York. He's on the Foreign Affairs Committee in the House of Representatives.
Congressman, thank you so much for being here on the Republican X handle. The account posted after today's meeting, quote, President Trump puts America first.
As I mentioned, you are a big supporter of backing Ukraine, backing a democracy under attack from Vladimir Putin. Do you think President Trump put America first there? REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Well, obviously, the president's objective is
to bring this conflict to a close and I think that was obviously conveyed in the conversation. This war continuing is to nobody's benefit. We've seen hundreds of thousands of innocent people killed, in the unprovoked invasion of Ukraine by Russia. I've been very clear in my denunciation of Vladimir Putin. He's a vile dictator and thug.
But the concern in large measure is that Ukraine is in a very weakened state, and that the longer this conflict persists, the greater the consequence will be. And I think what president Trump is trying to do is bring the conflict to a resolution, that also strengthens Ukraine's position.
When this conflict is over, Ukraine is going to need significant investment, much like in the aftermath of World War II in Europe, and significant investment by both the United States and Europe, and this agreement that was put on the table today was a step towards that. And by the way, greater economic cooperation by virtue of that brings about greater security. And that really, I think is the point.
BASH: You have said many times, you just said it again, that you believe black is black and white is white, and up is up and down is down. And Russia actually invaded Ukraine.
That is not the kind of thing that we are seeing and hearing from President Trump.
We just heard earlier, we were reminded by Senator Mark Warner that the U.S. didn't even vote on a resolution condemning, or marking the Ukraine war. The third anniversary, because it mentioned that reality, that it was an aggressive move by Russia.
So given all of that, how do you feel as a fellow Republican hearing President Trump say what he says, which is just causing absolute celebration inside Russia?
LAWLER: Well, I've been very clear again that Putin absolutely invaded Ukraine. It was unprovoked and unwarranted. And I do believe he is committed, you know, war crimes in this process.
I think what President Trump is trying to do is bring the parties to the table to negotiate a ceasefire and end this war, and obviously, given the way that the Biden administration approached Russia over the last three years, there were no conversations. There was no dialogue.
I think the president is trying to actually bring Putin to the table. We can disagree on -- on some of the rhetoric or some of the strategy. But the bottom line is you can't get a ceasefire unless you actually bring both parties to the table. As we've seen with the situation in Gaza.
So, ultimately, my belief is that this deal that the president has put on the table, in terms of economic cooperation between the United States and Ukraine is most assuredly in Ukraine's best interest. And I think President Zelenskyy needs to get back together with President Trump very quickly and get this deal done. This is not in Ukraine's best interest for this to devolve any further. Obviously, when you are engaged in diplomacy, when you are engaged in negotiations, things can get tense. And, you know, these types of conversations, do take place behind closed doors.
I don't think it was in anyone's interest for this to devolve in public today the way it did. I think it was destructive. And frankly, it was to Vladimir Putin's benefit. He is the only one that won today based on what happened in the oval office.
But I think it is imperative that this quickly get put back together, and that President Zelenskyy worked to finalize an agreement with President Trump.
BASH: Republican Congressman Mike Lawler, thank you so much for being here, sir. I appreciate it.
LAWLER: Thank you.
BASH: Ahead, we'll talk a little bit more about the role of the vice president, J.D. Vance, in today's intense meeting at the White House.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:47:37]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: You should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict.
ZELENSKYY: Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?
VANCE: I have been to --
ZELENSKYY: Come once.
VANCE: I have actually -- I've actually watched and seen the stories, and I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: And we are back.
I want to talk about what we just saw, in particular with David Axelrod, who was senior adviser to President Barack Obama.
I want to sort of focus on J.D. Vance, because now that I've watched it several times, it's really clear that it wasn't going amazingly well before J.D. Vance jumped in. But that's when it really devolved.
What do you make of that?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, he was a provocateur.
BASH: And specifically the propaganda tour? Okay, go ahead.
AXELROD: Well, I mean, that was -- it's interesting. You should have asked Congressman Lawler about it. I bet you he was along on one of those trips because many members of Congress, Republican and Democrats were, who wanted to see firsthand what was going on in Ukraine. But, I mean, look, it got very nasty very fast.
The one thing I think people have missed that kind of caught my ear. And I went back and listened to a couple of times was Vance began by saying that Russia had invaded Ukraine and destroyed much of the country. That's something that the president of the United States won't say. So, you know, I think it was he was trying to make a point that it was that that Ukraine had a lot at stake in trying to end the war.
But in making the point, he actually contradicted the president who or, you know, who refuses to say the same. And it, you know, that was the spirit of the thing that we voted against at the U.N. on Monday. So that was very odd to me.
But clearly, listen, you do have the sense that there was, uh, an intent to try and blow up, uh, this, this meeting and, to what end? You know, I don't know. I hope that it's not to justify a withdrawal of aid to Ukraine.
But, you know, the one thing that when you were talking to Mike Lawler, the words that didn't come up were security. And the core of what was being argued today was whether you could trust Vladimir Putin.
[16:50:03]
Zelenskyy said you couldn't, and based on his own experience, and he talked about why.
Trump said he's never lied to me. And therefore, you can trust me.
But what happens when Trump goes is one question, even if that were true? I think that's the core of this. They need security guarantees. And without that, peace through strength is actually peace through surrender.
BASH: Yeah, which is why Zelenskyy started to give a history lesson of why he doesn't feel he can trust Russia.
I'm sorry. We have to leave it there. It's a very busy day, David. It's always good to see you.
AXELROD: Good to see you, Dana.
BASH: And we are closely monitoring other breaking news, and that is Pope Francis was put on a breathing machine today.
We're back with that next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:55:12]
BASH: Breaking news in the faith lead. The Vatican says Pope Francis was put on a breathing machine today after a sudden episode of respiratory difficulty.
CNN's Christopher Lamb is at the Vatican.
Christopher, what is the pope's condition right now?
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, this is a problematic update for Francis because the recent days he had been improving. However, the Vatican saying that he had this bronchospasm, a tightening of the bronchi. A Vatican source saying that the next 24 to 48 hours are going to be crucial to see whether Francis's condition worsens or not.
Francis has been in the hospital since February the 14th. It's his longest stay in hospital. He's 88 years old. He's battling pneumonia in both lungs. There's a lot of concern in the Vatican. People were gathering tonight to pray for the pope behind me in St. Peter's Square. We're expecting another update from the Vatican on Saturday.
BASH: Christopher, thank you so much. Appreciate that.
And up next, we have some brand new reporting just in on the big story of the day, the intense clash at the White House. A source is telling CNN's Nick Paton Walsh that a top U.S. official advised against the meeting in the first place. We'll give you more details after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
