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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Threatens New Tariffs On Dairy, Lumber From Canada; Trump Threatens New "Large Scale" Sanctions On Russia; Rep. Seth Moulton, (D-MA), Is Interviewed About Sanction On Russia, Tariffs, Cabinet Meeting, Transgender, Women's Sport; NYT: Transportation Secretary Accused Musk Of Trying To Fire Air Traffic Controllers; NYT Pool: 67 Percent Of Democrats Think Transgender Female Athletes Should Not Be Allowed In Women's Sport; Officials: Hackman Died Of Heart Disease, Wife Died Of Hantavirus; WH Cancels $400M In Grants, Contracts To Columbia Univ.; Steve Harvey Fights Back Against A.I. Scams Using His Identity. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired March 07, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right, "The King's Music Room" will premiere on Monday just in time for Commonwealth Day. No word on if Donald Trump may invite him to DJ at Mar-a-Lago, as Donald Trump often likes to do himself.

Guys, thank you very much for being a wonderful panel today. Chuck, I hope you'll come back. Nice to see you on T.V.

CHUCK TODD, AMERICAN JOURNALIST Thanks for having me.

HUNT: Appreciate it. All right.

TODD: Thanks for being invited.

HUNT: Don't go anywhere. "The Lead" with Jake Tapper stars right now.

[17:00:37]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Trump's new tariff threat for Canada and sanction threat, the Russia. The Lead starts right now.

Canada in the crosshairs of President Trump. Again, one day after easing most tariffs, now President Trump is slapping his northern neighbors with a new round. And that's not the only thing he's reversing course on. Plus, a reported explosive Trump cabinet meeting with a tense moment between Elon Musk and Secretary of State Marco Rubio as well as other members of the Trump cabinet. Maggie Haberman will be here with the scoop.

And the rare statement just moments ago from New Mexico's chief medical examiner on the deaths of actor Gene Hackman and his wife Betsy. What the investigation now reveals about the circumstances of their deaths. That's next.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

Time to pop a Dramamine because Trump is not letting anyone off the tariff tilt a whirl. The president now warning about new reciprocal tariffs on Canada. That could come as soon as today. He says if Canada does not drop its tariffs against U.S. dairy and lumber exports, those products will be met with the exact same fee. This could make or break some businesses.

The dairy tariff would be roughly 250 percent. This comes only one day after Trump signed executive orders delaying tariffs until April 2 on almost all goods from both Mexico and Canada. And before yesterday, there were multiple reversals in tariff policy. Sounds like we could be in for more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The markets, as you know well, prefer stability. Are you done going forward with the pauses and the carve outs? Is that it for those?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There will always be changes and adjustments.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: President Trump, as we covered yesterday, also changed course on the Elon Musk led Department of Government Efficiency or DOGE. The president now says that his administration is going to use a scalpel rather than a hatchet to make job cuts. And the president says cabinet secretaries will be entirely in charge. Just ahead, as I mentioned, "New York Times" reporter Maggie Haberman is going to bring us the brand new explosive detail. She and her colleague Jonathan Swan are breaking on the cabinet fight that led to this change.

Haberman and Swan have a blow by blow account of how Elon Musk clashed with Trump's cabinet officials, including a back and forth with Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, who said that Musk was trying to fire already understaffed air traffic controllers despite recent plane crashes. Plus, of course, that stunning showdown between Musk and Secretary Rubio after Musk accused Rubio of not firing enough members of the State Department staff. Trump denies this happened, while the "New York Times" reports that the president reportedly sat back, arms folded, as if he were watching tennis. Game, set, match. Let's go to CNN's Jeff Zeleny who's at the White House for us.

Jeff, President Trump signaling that these tariff changes are going to continue. I wonder, is this unpredictability, is this chaos essentially part of Trump's trade policy?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Jake, it certainly seems like it is. We know that the president, of course, is a long and true believer in tariffs, both the threat of them and actually imposing them. But it really has been a one day they're one day they're off, some hour they're on some hour they're off. But again today in the Oval Office, the president asked about this, asked about the uncertainty, the instability. He suggested, without anyone asking specifically, that he may impose new tariffs on lumber in dairy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: Canada has been ripping us off for years on tariffs for lumber and for dairy products, 250 percent. Nobody ever talks about that 250 percent tariff, which is taking advantage of our farmers. So that's not going to happen anymore. We're going to be -- they'll be met with the exact same tariff unless they drop it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So just to recap, on Tuesday, the tariffs on Canada and Mexico were imposed. On Wednesday, automakers were excluded. On Thursday, pretty much most of Mexico and Canada were excluded for a month. And now today, a mention of dairy. He said he could sign it as early as today, but Jake, he's scheduled to leave the White House shortly and fly down to Mar-a-Lago for the weekend.

[17:05:08]

He certainly could sign it there. But it seemed to be another just indication of a tariff threat, not actually imposing a real one. But the bottom line to all of this after this seventh week in the Trump White House, this trade war is something he clearly likes talking about in Canada is clearly his favorite punching bag. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much.

Let's discuss with CNN Washington Bureau Chief and Political Director David Chalian and CNN's Kayla Tausche. Good to have both of you here. Thanks so much.

So, David, Trump flipping again on tariffs. It just keeps going back and forth, back and forth. He reined it in. Was yesterday's walk back an attempt to calm the markets and the Republicans who had been reaching out to the White House and worried about this? Or is there even any sense of strategy?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I think it's hard to really define a strategy here other than looking for a win, right? I mean, I think what you are seeing is that, yes, to answer your question, Jake, it's hard to imagine that -- I know he said yesterday he doesn't look at the markets anymore. I have a bridge, I can tell you if you think that's true.

TAPPER: Yes.

CHALIAN: But I do think that there was an attempt to see if he could do something that would calm the markets. It didn't work yesterday. I guess today is a different story. But the whiplash is now part -- it's a feature. It's a feature of what is going on.

And it is what is causing, which Kayla can talk about much more, the uncertainty in the markets. But it is also causing uncertainty among Republicans on Capitol Hill about his policy, about its enactment, real concern that they're hearing from some constituents of the impact. And as you know, the economy is the most important issue to voters. And so the fact that he's gyrating around this, even though tariffs has been his most consistent position in his entire public life, in terms of a public policy position, he seems rather inconsistent about actually enacting them.

TAPPER: Yes, it's interesting. And Kayla, today on CNBC, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent warned about the economy seeming to cool to a degree with the stock market going down, some questions about employment, et cetera. He said there is going to be an adjustment. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: The market and the economy have just become hooked and we become addicted to this government spending and there's going to be a detox period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I'm no expert on detox, but it doesn't seem from what I've read about it that it's pleasant. It seems like it's a shock to the system. Very painful. What is he preparing us for?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes, perhaps these are the withdrawal symptoms in the market that we're seeing right now. But what he's preparing us for is the data that's already starting to show cracks and starting to paint a very negative picture for the Trump economy. You have the manufacturing sector, which just this week showed that it was slowing because of the uncertainty from tariffs. That is like the blue wall core industry that he ran to help. Then you have the fact that many Federal Reserve banks are estimating that first quarter GDP would be negative.

You have two quarters of that, Jake. That's when you get a recession. And then you're going to have an April jobs report and a May jobs report that are going to include all of the fork in the road employees or employees who have taken these voluntary buyouts. And you're going to have some really, really tough data to swallow.

And the reason why Trump is doing this Jekyll and Hyde act is because he believes in tariffs. He believes that these allies need to do more and he wants to appease those in MAGA world and on his domestic policy council and folks like Peter Navarro who say this is the answer there. But he also doesn't want a recession. He doesn't want the markets to go down. And, and so that is why you see this whiplash every other day.

TAPPER: So, David, President Biden, a lot of Democrats think that he misunderstood why he was elected in 2020 and that he thought that he had more of a mandate to become this heroic LBJ or FDR like figure with sweeping changes to the economy, et cetera, et cetera. Do you think it is possible that President Trump is falling into that same trap and instead of just getting prices down lower and having a stable economy is misreading his mandate?

CHALIAN: Yes. First of all, I don't think this is specific to Trump and Biden. I think it's hard to find a president who gets elected that doesn't over interpret what they believe their electoral mandate to be. History is littered with examples, but this is -- we are in a real test for President Trump now. This is a real warning sign because if indeed some of these concerns about the economy materialize as the reality of the economy going forward, he is going to come up against this electoral success he had real fast because the American people have made clear that the economy is their most important issue. Bringing prices down has, or let me reverse that, Jake, high prices has a way of erasing every other issue they may care about and align themselves with on Donald Trump if their pocketbooks are not being relieved.

[17:10:07]

And that was what they sort of said when they sent him to the White House. That presents a political challenge for him who doesn't have to run again, maybe less so for him specifically than for his party, who does have to run again.

TAPPER: And meanwhile, he's still talking about shutting down the Department of Education. You've been talking to people. What are some of the impacts or what's the most important impact you think we could see if he actually shuts down the Department of Education?

TAUSCHE: Well, I think there are two parts of the Department of Education. There's the policy apparatus, which I believe he's planning to reassign to other agencies for the most part. But then there's this massive financial portfolio, $1.7 trillion in debt that's bigger than nearly every single bank in this country. And one of the reasons why we haven't seen the executive order is because what to do about that is the most complicating factor here. And the president himself said that just yesterday, trying to figure out, would that go to Treasury, would it go to the Small Business Administration?

But the biggest question is, will the government stay in the business of making loans directly to students as it's done for the last 15 years? Without a great record of getting them to pay those loans back, 40 percent of that $1.7 trillion represents a delinquent loan. So it's a terrible return on investment. Or will they turn that over to the private sector and have a new agency that oversees that? In the meantime, Jake, you know, the staff ranks are thinning.

You've had about a quarter of the federal student aid workers taking one of the buyout options. We're hearing that layoffs could hit up to 50 percent of the remaining workers. And this is all just weeks before students get their aid packages for the coming academic year.

TAPPER: All right, David and Kayla, thanks so much. Good to see both of you.

We have some breaking news for you now. In our law and Justice League sources are telling CNN that the Justice Department just put two New York prosecutors on leave. The prosecutors worked on the corruption case against New York City Mayor Eric Adams. Let's get right to CNN's Kara Scannell in New York.

Kara, what's going on? I mean, they already had dropped the charges, right? Now they're getting rid of these prosecutors?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, you remember they had made this motion to dismiss the case against Eric Adams that is still playing out in court. And at the time when the Justice Department was trying to get the Prosecutors with the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York to sign off on that, it created this wave of resignations. And at the time, the Justice Department put two of the attorneys who were principally working on the prosecution on leave. One of them then resigned. What they've done now today is put the two other prosecutors who were working on the Adams case also on leave.

So, this is them kind of officially wiping out the prosecution team who was working on this case. Even though the D.C. Justice Department has taken it over. You know, they are still trying to get the judge overseeing the case to dismiss it. He has asked for additional filings in that case and he has not yet made a decision on what he will do. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kara Scannell, thank you so much.

President Trump started the day with another warning, this one for Russia. He was threatening tariffs and sanctions. What effect will have -- that have on Putin and any negotiations for peace in Ukraine? We're going to go live to Moscow with the reaction. Plus how the Trump administration is explaining its abrupt decision to pull $400 million in grants and contracts from Columbia University.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:17:31]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: No, no. You've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble.

PRES. VOLODYMYRS ZELENSKYY, UKRAINE: I know.

TRUMP: You're not winning.

ZELENSKYY: I know.

TRUMP: You're not winning this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: World lead, one week since that explosive Oval Office meeting that ended with President Trump kicking Ukraine's President Zelenskyy out of the White House. Since then, President Trump has suspended both military aid and intelligence sharing with Ukraine. Today, Trump said this about working with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: In terms of getting a final settlement, it may be easier dealing with Russia, which is surprising because they have all the cards, I mean they have -- and they're bombing the hell out of them right now. And I put a statement in a very strong statement. Can't do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's go live to Moscow. CNN's Chief Global Affairs Correspondent Matthew Chance is there.

Matthew, Trump went on Truth Social and he posted a threat to inflict sanctions and tariffs on Russia. What is the Kremlin's response?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, new financial penalties, tariffs, sanctions on Russia. If they didn't come to the negotiating table, the Russians have basically, you know, they shrugged it off. I spoke to the Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Maria Zakharova, a couple of hours ago, and she said, look, you know, frankly, this country has had so many sanctions imposed against it, none of them have diverted us from achieving our goals. The implication being that these new ones, as they're ever implemented, and of course, they haven't been, wouldn't either.

But let's have a reminder of what Trump actually posted on his Truth Social platform, an unusually critical message about Russia in which he said that Russia is absolutely pounding Ukraine on the battlefield and that he's strongly considering large scale banking sanctions and tariffs on Russia until a cease fire agreement is reach.

The Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Zakharova, said that in her opinion, it was the first line of that post that was most important, that Russia is pounding Ukraine on the battlefield because she said it underlined just how badly Ukraine was doing on the battlefield. And that was important. She said that Ukraine had already lost this war and it had lost because it put too much trust in the previous White House. And so, you know, even when Trump is criticizing Russia and being -- making these kinds of threats against it, they're still kind of, you know, kind of coming to his defense and saying it was the other guys, the Biden administration, that were really to blame.

[17:20:03]

TAPPER: Interesting and quite telling. Matthew Chance in Moscow, thanks so much.

Let's discuss this all with Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts. He's a member of the House Armed Services Committee and is a U.S. Marine veteran who served in Iraq.

Congressman, good to see you. You have said you think President Trump is, quote, "Selling out Ukraine to Russia," unquote. Today, the President threatened new sanctions on Russia in response to Moscow's continued bombardment of Ukraine and not coming to the peace table. Do you think that's a step in the right direction? Do you think he's going to follow through?

What's your take?

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): I don't know what direction it's a step in, Jake, because Trump is just all over the map. The one thing that has been consistent is supporting Vladimir Putin. And your reporter just mentioned how even in the context of this criticism of Russia, there are people saying, you know, actually, this is really not Russia's fault. The other thing that was just said is that, you know, the President said Russia holds all the cards here. Like, let's remember, the reason why Russia holds all the cards is because Trump gave them away before they even started this negotiation.

He took some of the prime bargaining chips for Ukraine off the table when he told Russia, yes, you're going to get all the territory you already own. Ukraine's not going to get its country back. They're not going to be a member of NATO. So consistently, Trump is on Russia's side throughout this negotiation. That's the bottom line.

TAPPER: Let's talk about the trade war going on right now, or potential trade war with Canada and Mexico. I know that you have people in your congressional district, fishermen, lobstermen, who would be affected by a trade war. What did they tell you?

MOULTON: They're calling the office nonstop. I had a long meeting with fishermen and lobstermen because they're so scared of tariffs. And the reality is that we just don't even know what's going to happen. And, I mean, in some ways, you shouldn't be surprised that an unstable man has completely unstable policy which leads us to an unstable America and an unstable world. People don't even know what to think. We could have a legitimate debate, Jake, about whether tariffs are good or bad.

And there are positions on both sides of this. But right now, the business community, the working community, fishermen who are just trying to make a living for their families, they don't even know what to expect. So they can't plan, they can't invest, they can't buy things that might cost much more three weeks from now when the order actually comes in. This is a real problem. If you're going to be bad, at least be consistent.

But there's no consistency right now. It's just chaos. And that makes it very hard to run a business.

TAPPER: The "New York Times" is reporting today that in Trump's Cabinet meeting yesterday, the Secretary of Transportation, Sean Duffy, accused Elon Musk of trying to lay off air traffic controllers, despite the fact that there are all these plane crashes. There was also conflict between Marco Rubio and Elon Musk. The result of the overall meeting was Trump saying that his Cabinet secretaries, not Musk, will get to decide about staffing cuts and that they'll use a scalpel, not a hatchet. What's your take on that? Do you think that's enough to protect critical jobs?

MOULTON: No, of course not. I mean, Elon Musk has made it very clear that he's taking a chainsaw to the government. He's not making government more efficient. His mission is to make government nonexistent. And whether that means firing air traffic controllers, whether it means firing the people who are trying to reduce the outbreak of avian flu, right, as egg prices are going up, he's just going to keep doing this regardless of its effect on the rest of the administration or the American people. Trump promised lower prices on day one, and he used eggs as an example. Musk comes in and immediately raises the price of eggs by making it harder to combat the avian flu. This chaos is going to continue as long as this unelected billionaire is allowed to run roughshod all over the government.

And, Jake, this is coming from a Democrat who's a huge proponent of government reform. My first bill in Congress was a reform bill to make it easier and faster for veterans like myself to get appointments at the VA, because I see this firsthand as a VA patient. So there are places in our government where we absolutely need to make things more efficient. But when you just fire thousands of -- tens of thousands of veterans from the VA, so veterans actually have a lot -- have to wait a lot longer to get care, don't find the specialists that they need, you're not making government more efficient. You're just making it worse.

TAPPER: Meanwhile --

MOULTON: And that's going to hurt them.

TAPPER: Meanwhile, the Democratic Party's not exactly in great shape. Your party has a 21 percent approval rating. After the resounding loss in 2024. You said that Democrats need to rethink messaging about a number of issues, including the participation of transgender athletes in women's sports and girls sports. You said quote, "I have two little girls. I don't want them getting run over on a playing field by a male or formerly male athlete.

But as a Democrat, I'm supposed to be afraid to say that."

Now, you got a lot of blowback for saying that. I think some people quit your campaign staff. Meanwhile, a new January "New York Times" Ipsos poll shows that 67 percent of Democrats agree with that position, that think transgender female athletes should not be allowed in women's sports. That's just among Democrats.

[17:25:15]

And then Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, who is, you know, thinking about running for president, said yesterday on his podcast that he also shares your position. It seems odd to me. I mean, obviously, nobody rational wants people in the trans community to be discriminated against, to be subjected to bullying or hate. But this is, to a lot of people, an issue of fairness for girls and women. Why do you think you and Gavin Newsom are the two of the only elected Democrats saying this?

MOULTON: Well, I mean, look, let's look at the positive. It's going in the right direction. You know, it took 120 days for a fellow Democrat to come out and agree with me publicly, even though had countless colleagues come up to me privately and saying, yes, you're right on this, and Democrats just need to get real.

And by the way, part of the argument is that we can't protect transgender people if we can't even engage in this debate. Because if we don't even have a counter proposal, like a more rational way to look at this than the extremist, hateful policies put out by Republicans, then Republicans are going to carry the day. They're going to keep hammering us on this issue because we have no response, just like Harris had no response to that transgender ad in the campaign. And we're going to keep losing on the issue, and transgender people are going to get hurt because Republican policy carries the day.

So, the right thing to do is to engage in these issues and to listen to 80 percent of Americans where they say, this is a problem. Democrats are doing too much preaching down at people instead of listening to the Americans that we want to represent. And until we start doing more listening, we're going to be a minority party. We've got to bring people into the tent, not exclude people who disagree with us on certain litmus test issues.

So, you know, good for Gavin Newsom for getting out there. I hope that fellow Democrats follow his lead and, you know, just face reality here.

TAPPER: Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, thank you, sir, as always.

Coming up next, with the chief medical examiner in New Mexico just revealed about the deaths of actor Gene Hackman and his wife.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:31:41]

TAPPER: In our National Lead, new det -- new details into the deaths of actor, Gene Hackman, and his wife, Betsy Arakawa. The medical examiner today in Santa Fe, New Mexico said Hackman likely died of natural causes and that his wife likely died days before he did of natural causes. CNN's Veronica Miracles in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Veronica, how did Betsy Arakawa die and what was Gene Hackman's condition? What would his health -- what was his health before he died?

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, this has just turned out to be such a tragic situation. The medical examiner says that Betsy Arakawa Hackman died of the Hantavirus, which is a disease that humans can get from contact with rodents. But it's such a rare disease that in fact the Santa Fe County Fire Department isn't aware of the last time they had a case like this.

Now, Betsy Arakawa was last seen on surveillance video in town at a CVS and a grocery store on February 11th. She had unread e-mails that day and her last outgoing communication was February 11th. So without being able to pinpoint the exact time and date, they believe that is around the time that she died.

Meanwhile, Gene Hackman's pacemaker last exhibited data on February 18th. So they believe that Gene Hackman was in the home with her body likely for days. He had advanced Alzheimer's. Here's what the medical examiner had to say. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. HEATHER JARRELL, CHIEF MEDICAL INVESTIGATOR, NEW MEXICO OFFICE OF THE MEDICAL INVESTIGATOR: I did see evidence of very poor kidney function and I think he died as a result of his -- his heart disease and with Alzheimer's being that contributing factor. He was in an advanced state of -- of Alzheimer's and it -- it's quite possible that he was not aware that she was deceased.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIRACLE: Betsy Arakawa Hackman was 30 years younger than Gene Hackman, so it appears she was his caretaker and when she passed there was no one to care for him. Their bodies were discovered by maintenance workers days later. Jake?

TAPPER: This is so awful. I have to ask, I'm just curious because we also know that one of their three dogs was found dead as well. That's one of the things that's so mysterious -- that was initially so mysterious about it. Did the virus that killed Hackman's wife also killed the dog?

MIRACLE: Yes, I asked that question to the vet and she said that dogs actually cannot get the Hantavirus. They believe that they're still conducting a necropsy on the dog, so they're still waiting for the conclusions of how the dog died, but the sheriff believes that likely it died from starvation because it was locked in the crate. Jake?

TAPPER: Oh, it was locked in a crate, right, right, right, right, that's why. So the -- so -- so Betsy dies and the -- anyone that she was taking care of died not long after. So horrible. Veronica Miracle in Santa Fe, thanks so much.

MIRACLE: Yes.

TAPPER: Let's bring in Frank DePaolo. He -- he previously worked in forensics operations and investigations for the New York City Medical Examiner's Office. Frank, such a -- such a horrible -- horrible story. What -- what is your take on the findings into the deaths of Gene Hackman and his wife?

FRANK DEPAOLO, FMR. DEP. COMMISSIONER, FORENSIC OPS & INVESTIGATIONS, NYC MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE: Yes, Jake, thank you for having me. Yes, you know, I listened to the chief medical examiner's report a short time ago and it's pretty clear that, and conclusive, that she definitively concluded that both, Mrs. Arakawa as well as Mr. Hackman died from natural causes. It was, you know, based on her findings, both from the autopsy as well as the laboratory reports that confirmed the diagnosis of Hantavirus in Mrs. Arakawa. So I think it left no question as to what occurred here.

[17:35:35]

TAPPER: So let me just ask you, just in terms of -- of considering a death to be of natural causes, so she dies of this Hantavirus and then those whom she was taking care of, this dog locked in a crate, and her husband, Gene Hackman, die not long after. I mean, he -- he -- I understand that he is considered to have died of natural causes because of the -- the diseases he had, but is it not also possible that, you know, she wasn't there to take care of him, give him his medication, you know, just do the things that you do when you're a caregiver? That's probably the reason why he passed too, right? Even though he was of advanced age and had heart disease and had Alzheimer's.

DEPAOLO: Yes, and I agree with Dr. Jarrell, the chief medical examiner. By -- by the way, let me just say that the investigation that was conducted here was textbook by an office that, you know, is a prestigious office of an impeccable reputation. You know, you can't draw any conclusions as to, you know, what contributed to his death. He's 95 years old.

He had, as she stated, he was in poor health. He had advanced Alzheimer's by examination of the brain. And -- and even to that, she couldn't speak to, nor could anyone speak to, what his state of mind was. So there's really no telling what went on there. And by the way, it's not unusual. I've seen many cases in New York City where, you know, you have a spouse, two elderly people, and the spouse, you know, lives with the decedent for, you know, sometimes weeks. We've had cases that have gone for months. So this is, you know, this is unfortunate and it's, you know, a difficult story, but not that uncommon.

TAPPER: All right, Frank DePaolo, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

The Trump administration is punishing Columbia University over how the school handled those anti-Israel protests last spring. The Trump administration yanking $400 million in grants and contracts. How will the administration response, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:42:14]

TAPPER: Our National Lead now. Today, the Trump administration pulled roughly $400 million in federal grants and contracts from Columbia University in Manhattan, saying that the Ivy League school has failed to protect its Jewish students from anti-Semitism on campus during those anti-Israel protests that took over parts of the campus since the attacks on Israel starting October 7th, 2023 by Hamas.

In a statement by the brand new secretary of education, Linda McMahon, she says, quote, since October 7th, Jewish students have faced relentless violence, intimidation and anti-Semitic harassment on their campuses, only to be ignored by those who are supposed to protect them, unquote.

The move is getting praise from Democratic Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, who has emerged as a staunch ally of Israel, who posted, quote, Columbia, let anti-Semitism run amok to cater to lunatic fringe and paid provocateurs. Leadership allowed those assholes to take over the campus and terrorize Jewish students. Now, Columbia pays for its failure, and I support that, unquote. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is live for us at Columbia University in New York. Shimon, what -- what is Columbia saying about all this?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so, Jake, this does not come as a surprise to them. On Monday, they were warned by the Trump administration. There's a task force that was set up by the administration looking into anti-Semitism, and they said this was a potential outcome of it. And today they were told that here's what's going to happen. You're going to lose $400 million.

The school issuing a statement saying that they take this very serious, that we take Columbia's legal obligations seriously and understand how serious this announcement is and are committed to combating anti-Semitism and ensuring the safety and well-being of our students, faculty and staff.

And as you said, Jake, the university came under fire for, you know, because students here, Jewish students who complained about how they were being treated, they felt that they were intimidated, that they were being harassed by protesters last year who took over the campus. In fact, they took over one of the buildings here and the police had to be called in. There was a sit-in and students had to be removed.

And some of those protests, though not to the same scale, are still ongoing here around the campus. Just this week, four Columbia students got into some trouble here after they protested at Barnard College here, the nearby college in the library here. And the police told them to leave and they did not leave and they were arrested. So, look, this is still a very much ongoing situation here. And many of the Jewish students still feel the university is not doing enough, Jake.

TAPPER: Is there any chance that Columbia could get these grants back in any way?

[17:45:00]

PROKUPECZ: Yes, there is that chance, of course, as with everything with this administration, it's a sort of a back and forth, right? There's a negotiation. And if the university could prove perhaps to the administration, to the education department, that they are doing enough to address these concerns, that could happen. Look, according to the education department, the university gets some $5 billion in grants and different research funding. So it's a significant, obviously a very significant amount of money.

And this investigation into the university is still ongoing. But they're not the only ones. There are other universities across the country that are perhaps also facing this. So this is we're going to hear more about this as this continues. And we're going to see how the universities across the country respond to the administration's concerns, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Shimon Prokupecz in New York, thank you so much.

Coming up next, A.I. scams using celebrity faces and artificial voices to bait their victims. What entertainer Steve Harvey told CNN in an interview about scammers using his name and image and his fight to combat the online deceit. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:51:01]

TAPPER: Welcome back in our Pop Culture Lead. I -- I hate to be the one to tell you this, but that it -- it might not be your favorite celebrity offering you a free computer or concert tickets or a check. It might actually be realistic seeming videos of stars soliciting personal information from you for this supposed freebie. These -- these offerings keep popping up all over the internet. Thanks to A.I. And it's really a scourge.

CNN's Hadas Gold sat down with one celebrity who's had his likeness used for this very purpose. And he's taking action to get the scams to stop.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVE HARVEY, HOST, "FAMILY FEUD": And now it's time to play --

CROWD: Fast money.

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Steve Harvey is best known as a man who runs game shows and awards money.

HARVEY: Well, that's $20,000 you all.

GOLD (voice-over): But after decades in the spotlight, his likeness and voice are now being used by scam artists who are utilizing A.I. to trick his fans into giving their money away.

HARVEY: I've been telling you guys for months --

GOLD (voice-over): Like this Medicare scam viewed millions of times. With over 100 million T.V. viewers and social media followers, Harvey is among a growing number of celebrities speaking out, backing new legislation and technologies that aim to protect a celebrity's image.

GOLD: How does this affect you when your image is used in things like scams?

HARVEY: See, see that's hurtful because, you know, look, I prided myself on my brand being one of authenticity. I don't want fans of mine or people who aren't fans to be hurt by something because I said, go do it. And it wasn't even me.

GOLD (voice-over): Several new pieces of legislation aimed at combating Deepfake A.I. are now being considered by Congress.

MELANIA TRUMP, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm here with you today with a common goal.

GOLD (voice-over): First Lady Melania Trump has thrown her support behind the TAKE IT DOWN Act, which aims to criminalize non-consensual A.I. generated Deepfake and revenge porn. Another bill called the NO FAKES Act aims to hold creators and platforms liable for unauthorized A.I. generated images, videos and sound. It's garnered the support of the Recording Academy, the Screen Actors Guild, the Motion Picture Association and major talent agencies.

HARVEY: It's freedom of speech. It's not freedom of make me speak the way you want me to speak. That's not freedom. That's abuse.

GOLD (voice-over): Harvey wants legislation to include harsh punishments, including financial penalties and even jail time.

HARVEY: If you make money off lying to people, scamming people, then I think that's -- that's worthy of a fine and some time.

GOLD (voice-over): Harvey now uses a new platform called Vermillio to help him track and request takedowns of the ever growing number of Deepfakes of himself popping up every day.

DAN NEELY, CEO, VERMILLIO: So back in 2018, there were maybe 19,000 pieces of Deepfake content. Today, there are roughly a million created every minute. So trying to find and play this game of whack-a-mole is quite complex.

GOLD (voice-over): Vermillio CEO Dan Neely says Deepfakes can run the gamut from A.I. chatbots acting as a famous person to A.I. generated phone calls that mimic a celebrity's voice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's called Big Ol' Freak.

NEELY: We have his name, image and likeness. We've then taken that and turned it into something that we call fingerprints. So fingerprinting is a way in which we go and look at various things that are in a piece of content. So an image of you is made up of millions of pieces of data. We use those pieces of data to go and find where it exists across the Internet.

GOLD (voice-over): There are limited legal recourses for celebrities battling Deepfakes of themselves. Vermillio automates the cumbersome process of sending platforms takedown requests. As the technology improves at a rapid pace, celebrities are now agitating for Washington to keep up.

HARVEY: I mean, why -- how many people we got to watch get hurt by this before somebody does something?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLD: And Jake, I'm told that the senators behind the NO FAKES Act plan to reintroduce the legislation in the coming weeks. One thing they hope to change is to get the endorsement of those online platforms. That could mean a change in the penalties they face in this bill. But a source familiar with the bill telling me that they hope that this -- the penalties will still retain their teeth while being workable for these online platforms. Jake?

[17:55:07]

TAPPER: Hadas Gold, thank you so much for that report.

Coming up next, New York Times, Maggie Haberman who has today's biggest scoop, the title alone is intriguing, quote, inside the explosive meeting where Trump officials clashed with Elon Musk, unquote. The reporting includes details of a tense moment between Secretary of State Marco Rubio -- Marco Rubio and Musk and another involving Trump's transportation secretary. We'll tell you all about the blowup, next.

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[17:59:56]

TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour a whirlwind week wraps at the White House. From on-again, off-again tariffs to a White House meeting that reportedly led to Elon Musk fighting with secretaries in the cabinet.