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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Attempts To Distract Supporters From Epstein Story; Hunter Biden Blames Dad's Debate Performance On Ambien; Texas GOP Considers Redrawing Congressional Maps This Week; Why The Coldplay Concert Scandal Captured The World's Attention; Trump Calls For Commanders To Change Name Back To Redskins. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired July 21, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, the White House is responding to questions tonight about why President Trump has not ordered the FBI to release the full Jeffrey Epstein files, just as CNN is learning new information about the president's strategy in his $10 billion lawsuit over a story in The Wall Street Journal regarding a letter that he supposedly wrote in the Jeffrey Epstein birthday book, though the president denies that.

[18:00:16]

Plus, today marks one year since President Joe Biden dropped out of the 2024 presidential race. And now, his son, Hunter, well, he's got a lot to say about it.

And President Trump putting pressure on multiple professional sports teams, demanding that the Washington Commanders and Cleveland Guardians change their names back to the Washington Redskins and the Cleveland Indians. How the teams are responding and what the president says may happen if one of them doesn't follow through.

The Lead tonight, the gears of justice slowly grinding as President Trump seeks some distance from the Epstein files fallout. Federal judges in New York and Florida are currently reviewing a request from the Justice Department to unseal grand jury testimony from Jeffrey Epstein's criminal sex trafficking case, a process that could take months if not longer before a decision is reached. But even if the Justice Department's request is granted, President Trump acknowledged it might not be enough to satisfy all those demanding more transparency. Posting over the weekend, quote, even if the court gave its full and unwavering approval, nothing will be good enough for the troublemakers and radical left lunatics making the request. It will always be more, more, more, unquote.

In actuality, of course, it is his own MAGA base demanding a lot of this, but let's talk about this with CNN Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid. Paula, give us an update on where the Justice Department's request stands as of right now.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, the request is in, and now it's up to the judges overseeing these requests to determine what happens next. But we shouldn't expect any high profile public hearings because we're talking about confidential information. Part of why this is confidential and so sensitive in this case is because some of this information involves victims and accusers. So, we expect the judges will likely allow those parties to weigh in, give input as they make this decision.

But it is possible that we really won't hear much about this until the judges make their final decision on whether they actually want to release any of this material.

TAPPER: And President Trump's lawsuit against The Wall Street Journal officially has a judge. It is not Trump-appointee U.S. District Court Judge Aileen Cannon, who ruled so favorably in the case involving classified documents. Who is it?

REID: So, the winner of this is Darren Gayles, a judge appointed by President Obama back in 2014. I want to note, though, even though, of course, we know President Trump makes a lot who appointed a judge, this particular judge has a bipartisan resume when it comes to appointments. He previously had appointments to state judgeships from two Republican governors.

Interestingly, though, this is not his first time handling a Trump- related lawsuit. He also oversaw Trump's lawsuit against his former lawyer and fixer, Michael Cohen, where Trump sought $500 million in damages alleging that Cohen violated his attorney-client privilege. You may remember Trump eventually abandoned that right before Cohen's lawyers had a chance to question him under oath.

So, this judge, he knows what he's getting himself into.

TAPPER: So, you've been talking to some outside legal advisers for Trump about this libel suit. Now, look, I'm no lawyer, unlike you. It just seems to me like a can of worms. Like the discovery process, he's going to have to release information. He is going to be cross- examined. What are his advisers telling you?

REID: They describe it as a, quote, roll of the dice, right? They moved very quickly on Friday to file this lawsuit, and this is a really high bar for someone who's a president of the United States to succeed on a claim like this. Because part of what is analyzed is your ability to respond, how big a bully pulpit do you have, right? He has the biggest in addition to the other claims that he's making.

And even though this lawsuit, it has many similar claims to those made against other media outlets, like ABC and CBS, his advisers are aware that you're dealing with something very different here. You're dealing with Fox News and Rupert Murdoch. And Mr. Murdoch is not someone who is known to shy away from a legal fight. And as you noted, the biggest risk here though is the discovery process, all the things that could come out during the course of this litigation.

So, we'll be watching to see. Is this just a political stunt? Was the president just blowing off steam or is he truly committed to seeing this litigation through?

TAPPER: All right. Paula Reid, thanks so much.

For more on the White House reaction, let's bring in CNN's Jeff. Zeleny. Jeff, reporters pelted White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt with more Epstein questions today.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's because there are so many questions that remain, so many questions that are unanswered. And the president clearly has been trying to do everything he can to change the subject over the weekend, and early this morning, just posting a litany of things that are totally unrelated to what the White House and most normal White Houses do.

[18:05:07]

However, the White House press secretary was saying, the onus today is not on the president but it's on the Department of Justice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president has said If the Department of Justice and the FBI want to move forward with releasing any further credible evidence, they should do so. As to why they have or have not or will, you should ask the FBI about that.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There are reports that President Trump or the FBI agents going through the Epstein files were told to flag President Trump's name if it came up. Is that something that was aware of or something that he directed those agents or the Department of Justice today?

LEAVITT: I don't believe that's something the White House was aware of. You'd have to ask the FBI.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: That was a very interesting exchange there when our Kristen Holmes asked Karoline Leavitt about this, she didn't say a no. And what they're talking about is something that Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois, the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, he reported and said in letters that he was told that FBI agents were told to flag any time that Trump's name was mentioned. So, her answer there was quite interesting.

But, look, the bottom line to all of this, conservative lawmakers on Capitol Hill, some are calling for Pam Bondi to come to testify. This just isn't going away because there are so many unanswered questions here. But, unusually, the president did not have a public schedule today. He did not speak about this out loud. He does have one tomorrow. It's hard to imagine him not answering or talking even more about this. And, of course, he's been even fueling the fire by continuing to file lawsuits and other matters.

So, look, it's only Monday and it's hard to, I think, the White House can escape this for the rest of the week.

TAPPER: Yes. All right, Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much. Let's talk right now to David Boyce. He represented one of Epstein's most prominent accusers, Virginia Giuffre, who accused Jeffrey Epstein and his partner and accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, of raping her when she was 16 and 17, grooming her to have sex with several powerful men, including Prince Andrew, who did agree to a settlement with Giuffre though he denied the allegations. David, thanks for joining us.

I want to ask you about the settlement that your former client, Virginia Giuffre, who died by suicide in April. That she -- the reach -- the settlement she reached in her lawsuit against Ghislaine Maxwell. Journalist Julie K. Brown notes in her book, Perversion of Justice, quote, nearly every part of the lawsuit had been sealed by the federal judge, meaning that unless someone challenged a judge's decision, nobody would ever learn the names of the prominent people involved or the scope of Epstein and Maxwell's operation, unquote.

You were part of her legal team. Obviously, you headed Giuffre's legal team. You're obviously not legally allowed to talk about it since it's sealed. But would you be in favor of a judge unsealing that information so we can find out more about other predators who might still be out there?

DAVID BOIES, FOUNDER AND CHAIRMAN EMERITUS, BOIES SCHILLER FLEXNER LLP: Yes, I would. And Virginia Giuffre during her lifetime took the position that all of that should come forward with a possible exception of if you have victims whose names are included, that those should be protected, but except for the very limited excision of names of victims. Virginia's position and our position has been consistent, that all that should be revealed.

TAPPER: So, Virginia has passed away, unfortunately died by suicide. Jeffrey Epstein's no longer with us as well. He died in prison. The fact that those two individuals are dead, does that change anything in terms of the unsealing of this information, or is the fact that Prince Andrew and Ghislaine Maxwell and they're still out there, does that change it?

BOIES: Yes. The fact that both Jeffrey Epstein and Virginia have passed does not really change things. The sealing still has to be reviewed by a judge. And much of what was included, has been revealed, much has not been, but a good deal of what was sealed has been made public but a great deal of what exists has not been made public.

And when you're talking about the files, remember, you're not talking just about civil files or just about files from the grand juries. You're also talking about files from the Justice Department's own investigations both back in 2006, 2007, 2008, and more recently.

TAPPER: So, Julie Brown spoke to Virginia Giuffre and your client told her, quote, I'm not going to stop until all these girls get justice. What do you think justice looks like for all these girls?

BOIES: Well, I think one thing that justice looks like is to understand the scope and the scale of what went on. Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell could not have operated on the scope and scale that they did for decades without the help and support of a great many people.

[18:10:07]

Those people have not been held responsible. There are people that the Justice Department knows, that the Justice Department has declared to be co-conspirators, that the Justice Department has never gone after.

And this is not a partisan issue. This is a failure of every Democratic and every Republican president. The only time that we had a real effort at justice was when Mr. Berman was the U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York. Unfortunately, he was replaced and the prosecution really didn't go after any new people after that.

But there are many, many people who participated in this sex trafficking who contributed to sex trafficking, who made it possible that have never been held to account. And that is, I think, a terrible failure in justice, a terrible failure of our justice system.

TAPPER: One of the things that I think some prosecutors have been surprised by is the fact that Ghislaine Maxwell did not cooperate with prosecutors and name names of not just the lower level co-conspirators that you're talking about. And I'm not saying they shouldn't be brought to justice. They should, but I think what people are really want to know is who are the powerful men that took advantage of these young women, and in some cases, girls?

Do you have any insight into why Ghislaine Maxwell didn't name names in exchange for a lighter sentence?

BOIES: I really don't. It was an amazement to me that she and her lawyers did not cooperate early. When Jeffrey Epstein died, it was clear that the next person to be investigated was going to be Ms. Maxwell. And why she did not cooperate at that time is a mystery to me. She obviously felt that she was somehow going to be able to defend herself in court. How she could have felt that given the evidence against her was something I never understood.

TAPPER: All right. David Boies, I have many more questions, but I'm going to have to say goodbye and we'll have you back. Thank you so much. I really appreciate.

BOIES: Thank you. Take care.

TAPPER: What President Biden's son, Hunter, is saying in a brand new podcast interview about the Democrats who called for his dad to drop out of the 2024 race and what he's blaming for President Biden's catastrophically horrific debate performance, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, one year ago today, President Joe Biden dropped out of the 2024 presidential race. This, of course, followed his disastrous debate performance and internal Democratic pressure for him to drop out. Today, his son, Hunter, made headlines of his own in a more than three-hour-long interview on a podcast, touching on a number of issues, including the 2024 campaign. He vehemently defended his father while revealing a new detail about the debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUNTER BIDEN, JOE BIDEN'S SON: I know exactly what happened in that debate. He flew around the world basically, and the mileage that he could have flown around the world three times. Yes, he's 81 years old. He's tired as shit. They gave him Ambien to be able to sleep. He gets up on the stage and he looks like he's a deer in the headlights.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Here with me now, Democratic strategist Karen Finney and Axios Reporter Alex Thompson. Alex, of course, is my co-author in our book about Biden's decision to drop out of the race and hide his deterioration. It's called Original Sin, I should disclose. Hunter had some stuff to say about you and me, Alex, in this interview, but we're not going to make this panel about us because he had a lot to say about a lot of more important people than you and me.

What do you make about this new detail about the Ambien being a part of this?

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the fact that we didn't know it beforehand, even though that the doctor had been public about trying to say what Joe Biden was on, what he was taking, the fact that we did not know that the president of the United States was on Ambien, I'd also imagine it is very difficult to do the proverbial 3:00 A.M. phone call crisis when you were on Ambien in the middle of the night. I think it's really striking.

Now, we haven't heard from the doctor but the fact that the president's own son said that the president was on Ambien the weeks before the debate is a telling you detail about the president's abilities at the time.

TAPPER: And he is still saying that his father should have stayed in the race and still could have won.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. You know, look, I'm not going to defend or, you know, whatever Hunter said. He has a right to his own feelings.

TAPPER: Sure.

FINNEY: Look, I think it's pretty clear that United States it was going to be hard for anyone to win in 107 days, period, full stop. And, certainly, I've mentioned this to you before, the data that I was seeing, President Biden just was not consolidating the base.

But here's what I would say about this. You know, there's this happening. There are these autopsies or reviews happening. What I hope my party is focused on is let's have a hard conversation and a hard look at what happened and how do we make sure it doesn't happen again.

So, some of the should he have gotten out this month or that month, I'm less concerned about that than I am about what was being done to make sure we won, period, full stop.

TAPPER: Okay. Well, here's an autopsy of what went wrong from Hunter Biden, a tirade. He goes against Democrats who he feels wronged his father.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: James Carville, who hasn't run a race in 40 (BLEEP) years, and David Axelrod, who had won success in his political life, and that was Barack Obama, and that was because of Barack Obama, not because of (BLEEP) David Axelrod. And David Plouffe and all of these guys and the Pod Save America guys who were junior (BLEEP) speech writers in -- you know, on Barack Obama's Senate staff, who've been dining out on the relationship with him for years, making millions of dollars.

[18:20:12]

The Anita Dunns of the world who's made $40, $50 million off the Democratic Party, they're all going to insert their judgment over a man who has figured out, unlike anybody else, how to get elected to the United States Senate over seven times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

THOMPSON: What do you make of it, Alex? The most striking thing is that he attacked Anita Dunn, who, by the way, helped steer his father to the Democratic nomination in 2020. Also was in the White House for the majority of those four years until basically she was driven out because of this risk with Hunter Biden. She's also set to be interviewed by the House Oversight Committee in the coming weeks that --

TAPPER: Anita didn't want him to drop out either, by the way.

THOMPSON: 100 percent. And --

TAPPER: Right, I read it in our book.

THOMPSON: It is striking, Hunter is clearly establishing himself as the carrier of the family's grievances, and is also, you know, completely obliterating the fiction from last summer that Joe Biden was doing sort of the honorable thing. Joe Biden was driven out of this race by the elites, the Democrat Party, and Joe Biden, his entire family, deeply resented.

TAPPER: He's some of the strongest words were directed at actor George Clooney, who we should note is one of the most prolific fundraisers in the history of the Democratic Party, period, full stop, who did call for Joe Biden to drop out after the debate in a New York Times op-ed.

FINNEY: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump --

BIDEN: To do with (BLEEP) anything. Why do I have to listen to you? What right do you have to step on a man who's given 52 years of his (BLEEP) life to the service of this country and decide that you, George Clooney, are going to take out basically a full page ad in the (BLEEP) New York Times to undermine the president?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: He also said that Clooney is not an actor but a brand. I should note that Clooney has won an acting Academy award.

FINNEY: Yes.

TAPPER: Anyway --

FINNEY: Look, it was so -- here's the thing though. It was pretty -- I think we were all pretty shocked to see someone of George Clooney's stature write a piece and call for a president to step down. I mean, that would be news no matter who we were talking about.

Clearly, Hunter's angry. I mean, there's a lot of F-bombs in that. And, you know, look, I think, again, to me, the most important thing is, and it's interesting, like with the autopsy news that's been out there and even some of the texts going around after this interview, people are like, okay, so what happened to the money? People want some transparency around the money that was raised, how is it spent and we still lost. I think that there's a lot of empathy for Hunter and for Joe Biden.

TAPPER: Well, for Joe Biden.

FINNEY: Well, but for Hunter, like the fact that he's defending his father, I'll put it that way.

TAPPER: Can I tell you the quote that I think we're going to see the most, and it's one where Hunter Biden gives his take on illegal immigration, because that's the one that seems to have gotten the attention of Republicans and conservatives the most on social media. And the way that they are depicting it is this is the Democratic position on illegal immigration. Can we roll that clip?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: You have to talk about and realize that people are really upset about illegal immigration. (BLEEP) you. How do you think your hotel room gets cleaned? How do you think you got food on your (BLEEP) table? Who do you think washes your dishes?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So his message for anybody who says that people are really upset about illegal immigration is F you, who do you think washes your dishes? THOMPSON: Well, this is exactly why Democrats, I'm assuming including Karen, are not exactly thrilled with hunter Biden popping his head up and do not believe that Hunter Biden is the most effective communicator for the Democratic Party right now. He also later in that interview said, if I were president in 2028, and that just really made a lot of heads explode --

TAPPER: He also talked, by the way, about invading El Salvador to get the undocumented and people who had been deported to El Salvador.

FINNEY: But can I just say who cares what. I actually just don't care. I mean, again, I'm more focused on, and I think most Democrats --

TAPPER: Somebody cares. He gave a three-hour --

FINNEY: Yes. And look, it's -- he's unplugged. I love when people are unplugged. Maybe he should do his own. I do. I think he should do his own autopsy. But, again, given what is happening in this country, I'm more worried about how we move forward, sincerely.

TAPPER: All right. Karen Finney, Alex Thompson, thanks to both you.

Breaking news in our Law and Justice Lead us moments ago, former Louisville, Kentucky Police Officer Brett Hankison was sentenced for his role in the 2020 shooting of Breonna Taylor. CNN's Jason Carroll has the details. Jason, what is the sentence?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What we're just now hearing that this sentence has been made. It is 33 months in prison. It's a little bit more than 2.5 years. In addition to that, three years of probation, Jake.

It was touch and go there for a while.

[18:25:00]

It took the entire afternoon for the judge overseeing this case to arrive at this decision. The federal judge overseeing this heard from those in support of Hankison, also heard from those in support of Breonna Taylor.

Now, the judge, Rebecca Jennings, compared this to other officers that she has sentenced in the past. It should be noted that the probation office had recommended that Hankison serve anywhere between 11 and. 14 years. So, this sentence, far less than that, again, 33 months.

The defense has already said, Hankison's attorneys have already said that they plan to appeal this judge's decision. You can see some of those who are awaiting outside federal court there in downtown Louisville. Again, the Department of Justice, a few eyebrows raised here when they had recommended that Hankison serve just one day for his role in violating Breonna Taylor's civil rights. Obviously, the judge did not listen to that.

Hankison will remain out on bond for the time being, unclear when he will have to turn himself in. But the final say here in terms of sentence, 33 months, three years probation. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Jason Carroll with the breaking news, thanks so much.

Coming up, how Republicans in Texas are moving forward with President Trump's plans for his party to stay in power in the midterms, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, the Texas State Legislature returns today for a special session taking on several complex issues. Part of the agenda includes potentially throwing out their current Congressional maps and drawing new ones in an effort to increase the number of House Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives. Texas currently has 13 House Democrats, 25 Republicans.

Joining us now to discuss, former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger. You have a very unique perspective on this, Congressman, because you were screwed by Democratic redistrict orders in 2021 in Illinois, and your seat was basically just taken away and now you live in Texas where Republicans are -- they've already redistricted a lot in a pretty crazy way to make it as Republican as it is, and now they want to do it even more. What do you make of this new Republican redistricting effort? They want to get rid of as many as five House Democrats with new seats prior to next year's midterms.

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Look, by the way, I got hit with it twice. So, in 2012, they drew me out of my district and I won a member primary, and then, you know, in 2021. And it's crazy. But, anyway, look, it's dumb. First off, it never even crossed my mind that you could do like a mid tenure redistricting, because as most people know, this is supposed to be every ten years with the new census.

This is actually how you break democracy and representative democracy, is when you decide that you can't go to the people and make the case, you have to instead gerrymander these districts and now every Democratic state is going to be under pressure to have a mid-season gerrymandering of theirs. And it's this like cascade of stuff just breaking down and people losing faith in the system.

Look, if Republicans are worried that they're going to lose the house in 2026, maybe go out and pass bills America wants, or maybe say things Americans want to hear. That's a novel idea, but that's how you actually win a majority, not reopening stuff and drawing like thin little slivers to dilute Democratic populations.

TAPPER: The worst gerrymandering offenders, the worst states are almost entirely Republican except for Illinois, which is really bad, and you could argue parts of Nevada too. But you're right, I mean, in California they have an independent commission to do it, to try to make it as fair as possible. But Gavin Newsom's talking about redistricting in the same way that Texas is going to do it. And former Texas Congressman Beto O'Rourke said that this is what Democrats need to do to counter Republican redistricting. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FMR. REP. BETO O'ROURKE (D-TX): I think it's time that we match fire with fire. I think Democrats in the past too often have been more concerned with being right than being in power. We have to get serious. We have to be absolutely ruthless about getting back in power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, whether it's Texas, California, New York, or elsewhere, do you think redistricting is more of a risk for one party than the other?

KINZINGER: Yes. I mean, look, I understand the perspective and I understand even Gavin Newsom saying, well, if Texas is going to do it, then we need to redo it. Because, again, it's like you don't want to unilaterally disarm. But the thing that concerns me is that like the reaction to Donald Trump and what I believe is authoritarianism on the right ends up being some version of authoritarianism on the left. And we need to do exactly what the right has done. That shatters a pro- democracy coalition and you end up with a very fractioned country.

I think -- look, I think doing things in the political system the right way is going to retro and be cool again someday because I think people are sick of this. And so I do worry what the cascading effects to this are. And I don't think America's necessarily ready for it. What are they going to do? Redistrict now every six months, every one month, every time they, you know, use A.I. to find another district they could make? It's nuts.

TAPPER: So, meanwhile, in the Trump administration's latest tactic seemingly trying to change the subject from the Jeffrey Epstein scandal today, the Justice Department said that they're fully committed to transparency, unquote, but the topic is the Hillary Clinton email investigation. I don't know if you've heard that. But what is your response?

KINZINGER: It is like reaching into the bucket of old tricks and seeing if they work again. We'll probably hear about Hunter's laptop at some point. We may hear about U.N. helicopters from the 90s because they're out of ideas.

[18:35:03]

Look, I mean, America's not falling for this, you know, they'll be able to try to change the subject.

But, look, and it's not even -- it's not like the Democrats were the ones saying, release the Epstein files, and the Republicans are like, you're weaponizing it. This was all a Republican thing, until all of a sudden Donald Trump puts out two huge Truth Socials in complete panic that this is actually a thing, and then it becomes a Democratic hoax.

So, I'm sorry. I know they want to change the subject, and usually they've been pretty good at it. I don't think that's going to be the case in this one.

TAPPER: Former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger, good to see you. Thanks so much.

Our small business series takes us to Indiana next in a company that creates products to help you defend yourself and your family. How have tariffs impacted their products? Are they raising prices on customers? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: We are back with our Business Leaders series where we talk to small business owners from coast to coast about the impact of President Trump's tariffs. Many are feeling uncertain, some are optimistic.

Byrna Technologies from Fort Wayne, Indiana, develops non-lethal self- defense tools for both civilians and law enforcement.

[18:40:00]

Their products include gun alternatives called launchers and pepper sprays, and body armors and personal alarms.

CEO Bryan Ganz joins us now. Bryan, thanks so much for joining us. So, your company started preparing for the possibility of tariffs ahead of the 2024 election. Can you tell us what the last few months have been like for your business as you try to transition more of your sourcing to the United States?

BRYAN GANZ, CEO, BYRNA TECHNOLOGIES: Yes, Jake, first, thank you very much for having me on. That's correct. We saw the tariffs coming and we started transitioning last year. At that time, about 32 percent of our components that go into the launchers were made in the United States. But we had dual sources for everything. And as we started to ramp up, we've achieved 92 percent of the components that go into our launches are actually now made in the United States.

We also had our ammunition factory in South Africa, and we packed that up, lock, stock, and barrel, and we moved it to Fort Wayne. We opened up a second factory in Fort Wayne, and we now produce 100 percent of our ammunition here in the United States.

TAPPER: So, has this -- I mean, obviously that's a lot of money to put into -- you know, to move a manufacturing plant to Fort Wayne. Have you had to raise your prices? What's been the repercussions of all this?

GANZ: Well, first off, we were manufacturing overseas for a reason. It was less expensive.

TAPPER: Right.

GANZ: But it was less expensive in terms of soft -- in terms of hard costs. In terms of soft costs, what we found is by manufacturing the United States, we're of course, you know, significantly shortening the supply chain. We're getting stuff much quicker. Our freight rates are lower. Frankly, our quality is higher. You know, we were in the position before where you'd get a container with bad parts, what do you do when the supplier's 10,000 miles away?

So, we've seen soft costs that's somewhat offset, the higher hard costs that we had. In one case, we've raised our prices. But one of the questions that I get a lot is, you know, who's paying the tariff? And although, technically, the importer pays the tariff, it really depends on the negotiation between us and our supplier. So, in those cases where we are bringing things in with tariffs, generally, it's split between ourselves and the supplier, sometimes between ourselves and the supplier and the customer. But it's very rare that any one party picks up the whole tariff.

TAPPER: Are you thinking about the tariffs as a long-term part of our economy or a temporary short-term part of our economy when you plan for future growth in your company?

GANZ: Well, first off, let me just say, I moved a factory, so I hope it's not short-term.

TAPPER: Right.

GANZ: And as you pointed out we make non-lethal guns. If our devices fail, people die. So, we are very, very serious about what we do.

Since we started doing this six years ago and we've developed this market, we've sold close to 700,000 of these weapons in the last six years, we've seen competitors start to produce products in China and bring them to the United States.

Now, they are making products in China and selling them for less than we can make them here in the United States. So, although they are inferior products, although, you know, we've tested them extensively and we are very concerned about people using them, when you're selling them for a third of what our product costs, you are getting some portion of the market and it. And, frankly, it's madness. We were very, very pleased to see these tariffs, particularly on China, on some of these competitive products, because it's very difficult for us to compete on price when we're producing here in the U.S.

TAPPER: All right. Byrna Technologies is based in Fort Wayne, Indiana. It's spelled B-Y-R-N-A, if you're going to Google them and by yourself something, B-Y-R-N-A and you can find them online.

Bryan Ganz, great having you on. Thank you.

GANZ: Jake Tapper, thank you very much. Great to be here.

TAPPER: My next guest has a unique take on the concert scandal that has taken over the internet and led to his CEO's resignation. Stick with us.

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[18:48:03] TAPPER: We're back with our pop culture lead in the fallout over the concert canoodling seen around the world. Astronomer CEO Andy Byron resigned from his job after he was exposed warmly embracing the company's HR chief, Kristin Cabot, a woman who was decidedly not his wife on the jumbotron at a Coldplay concert.

And now, Coldplay's frontman is giving crowds a friendly warning about cameras used during their shows.

Joining us, Kat Rosenfield. She's a culture writer for "The Free Press".

So, Kat, a lot of people have been laughing about this story, taking a lot of pleasure in it. Why do you think it's gone viral? Why do you think so many folks are talking about it?

KAT ROSENFIELD, CULTURE WRITER, THE FREE PRESS: I think that you have two levels of thing happening here one is that, of course, everybody loves a good public shaming in the social media era.

And this one particularly invites that type of reaction because everybody and everything involved is something that people love to hate. You know, you have CEOs, you have HR representatives, you have Coldplay. And so there's that.

But there's also the fact that unfortunately, the way this incident played out and the fact that it was captured on video made it infinitely memeable to the point where on the one hand, you have the shaming, but also you have this element of it that's kind of passed into myth. The physical comedy of these people, sort of pulling away, turning their backs, diving out of frame is very, very easy to remix. And so, you have people having a lot of fun with that.

TAPPER: Do you think -- you touched on this when you talked about CEOs? But do you think that that is -- how much do you think that is that is fueling this, the idea that maybe there's something populist about bringing down a CEO and his HR director, like, would this have caught on as much if it were like a dentist with his secretary? Do you know what I mean?

ROSENFIELD: I don't know, everybody hates a cheater, right? And so, I think that probably the response in combination with the fact that the entire scene played out the way it did, probably would have been the same.

[18:50:08]

But the fact that it's a CEO, the fact that these are perceived to be wealthy people, it does make it to the people who are participating in this. I think, you know, for them, it makes it probably extra delicious. Yes.

TAPPER: You had a different take. You wrote in "Free Press" quote, "When we take joy in the distress and ruination of other people, we make monsters of ourselves," unquote. Explain what you mean a little. ROSENFIELD: So the thing about public shaming is that they are useful

tool, right? We use this tool shame to punish people who transgress, who violate the bounds of the social contract, who were in community with. But that offers a limiting principle. You don't want to do anything too terrible to somebody who, you know, you're going to still have to see around town after, you're going to have to live with this person together afterward.

Once you turn this from something that is community based and is about enforcing social contracts and that nobody really enjoys doing, and you turn it into a spectator sport that is global and always on, and you can participate in it from anywhere in the world, 24 hours a day.

What drives the dynamic changes significantly, and you have people who are driven by bloodlust, driven by sadism, driven by a desire to perpetuate harm, and who are delighting in the distress they're causing and who never have to be held accountable for that in any way, because it's strangers.

TAPPER: Yeah. And of course, we know that this kind of schadenfreude and shaming can have horrible effects, especially when the social media involved has to do with -- with children.

Kat Rosenfield as always, interesting, interesting, provocative article. Thanks for coming on.

ROSENFIELD: Thanks for having me.

TAPPER: President Trump is now threatening the future of a new sports stadium here in Washington, D.C. he wants "The Washington Commanders" to change their name back to the Washington Redskins. And he's going to use his power to force that. Those details ahead.

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TAPPER: And our sports lead, the White House says President Trump is serious about blocking the Washington Commanders from being able to build a new stadium in Washington, D.C., unless the team changes their name back from the Washington Commanders to the Washington Redskins.

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KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president was serious and is part of the art of the deal. Part of his negotiating skills. As you know, sports is one of the many passions of this president, and he wants to see the name of that team, change.

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TAPPER: The team dropped its old name in 2020 after decades of criticism from various Native American groups and activists.

Here's Tom Foreman.

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TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Commanders are being blitzed by the commander in chief who is demanding the team change its name back to Redskins, insisting with no evidence, our great Indian people in massive numbers want team owners to make the switch immediately.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You want me to make a controversial statement? I would. I wouldn't have changed your name.

YOLANDA BLUEHORSE, PROTESTER: This isn't the 1960s. It wasn't okay to use the N-word back then, and it's not okay to use the R word.

FOREMAN: Today to be sure, when the D.C. team's racially charged name was dropped in 2020 after years of protest, many fans were unhappy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just spent over $700 in less than probably a month ago redoing all this.

FOREMAN: But last season, the Commanders romped to their best record in decades. Approval for the new name shot way up in a recent "Washington Post" poll, with most now in favor of Commanders, including the team owner, who said --

JOSH HARRIS, COMMANDERS OWNER: I think it's now being embraced by our team, by our culture, by our coaching staff. And so, you know. We're -- we're going with that.

FOREMAN: But that was before Trump said if he doesn't get his way, he might upset negotiations on a multi-billion dollar deal to move the commanders from Maryland back to the District of Columbia. It's unclear if or how he can do that. And for the moment, D.C. officials are focusing on what they can control.

MAYOR MURIEL BOWSER (D), WASHINGTON D.C.: We need to complete our part so that the team can get to work so that local businesses can get hired so that we can start earning the tax revenue that will come when we deliver the Commanders stadium.

FOREMAN: Trump is also calling for the Cleveland Guardians baseball team to go back to their old name, Indians, which changed a few seasons back amid what Trump is characterizing as a period of runaway wokeness. Times are different now, he wrote on social media. Owners get it done.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I've got to say, if I were the owner of the team.

FOREMAN: Still in 2013, when President Barack Obama weighed in on the D.C. team name --

OBAMA: I'd think -- I'd think about changing it.

FOREMAN: Trump mocked him, "Presidents should not be telling the Washington Redskins to change their name. Our country has far bigger problems. Focus on them, not nonsense."

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

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TAPPER: Our thanks to Tom Foreman for that report.

Finally from us tonight, we remember legendary D-Day veteran Jake Larson. Staff Sergeant Larson was the last survivor of a unit who stormed the beaches of Normandy in an invasion that led to Europe's liberation from the Nazis.

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JAKE LARSON, D-DAY VETERAN: Every one of us was prepared to give our life to kick Hitler's ass out of Europe. And we did. We lost quite a few of us. I lost friends. Everybody lost friends.

But we can't -- we were soldiers. We were prepared to give our life.

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TAPPER: Later in his life, Larson became fondly known as Papa Jake on TikTok.

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LARSON: Hey, TikTok fans, Papa Jake here.

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TAPPER: Larson began sharing his World War II stories with younger generations and gained more than a million followers. Jake Larson's family says he was cracking jokes until the very end. He was 102 years old, an American hero. May his memory be a blessing.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.