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The Lead with Jake Tapper

DOJ Interviews Epstein Accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell; Trump and Powell Clash Over Cost of Fed Renovations; FCC Approves Skydance Merger With Paramount. Bridal Shops See More Hesitant Customers Due To Tariffs; Hulk Hogan Remembered For Legendary Impact On Wrestling. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired July 24, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[18:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to the Lead on Jake Tapper. This hour a top Justice Department official, met with Jeffrey Epstein, associate and the woman who groomed minors for him, Ghislaine Maxwell, today as pressure mounts on the White House to release more information about the Epstein case, what Maxwell's lawyer is saying about that interview today and what could come next in this investigation.

Plus, he has filed 34 lawsuits against the Trump administration in just the last six months. Now, California's Democratic Attorney General Rob Bonta, is here to explain why he's filing so many suits and what he thinks about a new executive order the president just announced.

Also, the calls for an independent investigation after videos show deputies, sheriff's deputies punching and dragging a man during a traffic stop in Florida. That man, William McNeil Jr., and his attorney, Ben Crump, are going to join me live ahead.

And he is widely considered the biggest wrestling star of all time. Today, Hulk Hogan died at the age of 71. We're going to take a look at his legacy in and out of the ring.

The Lead Tonight, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, President Trump's former defense attorney, met with Ghislaine Maxwell down in Tallahassee, Florida, earlier today.

Let's bring in CNN's Paula Reid. Paula, what do we know about Todd Blanche's meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, we know this when nearly a full day down in Tallahassee. Now, Maxwell's lawyer came out and spoke to reporters after the meeting, hence said that his client answered all the questions honestly, never once invoked any sort of privilege, but he wouldn't comment on the substance of exactly what she was asked or what she said. And so far, it's been radio silence from the Justice Department. So, we are still left with a lot of questions, Jake, specifically what if anything is the administration prepared to offer her? Obviously, President Trump could offer her a pardon or commutation, but also, perhaps more pressingly, what else would she have to offer? This is someone who has had every incentive for the past several years to share things of value with the government, because she's now of course, serving a 20-year prison sentence.

And even if she did have something to offer them, how do you corroborate this? I mean, this is someone who has had credibility issues in the past, is a convicted sex trafficker, and really any attempt to even broker a deal with someone like this is going to result in blow back from victims.

So, we continue to talk to our sources and try to get to the bottom of whether this meeting was anything more than political theater to try to take the temperature down on the larger controversy.

TAPPER: There's also this drama unfolding in New Jersey, as Alina Habba, whom the president has had appointed to be an interim U.S. attorney in New Jersey, fights to stay in her role even though her time there as an interim has expired, and a judge panel, a panel of judges, said it was time for her to go. What exactly is going on?

REID: Look, I'm smiling here, Jake, because this is one of the craziest things that I've ever seen. I mean, you don't need the real house size of New Jersey when right now you have no real U.S. attorney in the state of New Jersey.

Here's how it's all playing out. Right now, there's a stalemate on the Hill. The Senate has not confirmed a single one of President Trump's US attorneys. It's all being held up by Senator Dick Durbin. So, if you are an interim, as Alina Habba was, and your 120-day term expires, you have an option to go before a panel of federal judges and they can extend you.

Well, earlier this week, a panel of federal judges declined to extend Habba's appointment and instead appointed one of her deputies as her successor. And this is where it got really wild. Then the attorney general, Pam Bondi, tweeted that she was removing the successor, even though it was unclear she had the authority to override the courts in that way, and then the successor posted on LinkedIn that she was going to be sworn in anyway tomorrow when this 120-day term was up.

But then today, a short time ago, Alina Habba decided to quit as interim before her 120 days was up. She was hoping that that would mean that court order never goes into effect. She has now been appointed acting, which is technically different than interim. So, as of now, her plan is to serve roughly 200 more days in this office.

So, this is an effort to work around the courts that refuse to extend her turn. But what we'll see playing out are two questions -- two problems. One, this political problem on the Hill, where they have a stalemate, but also the type of people that President Trump is putting up for these jobs. Ed Martin and Alina Habba. These are folks that are just not palatable to many federal judges. TAPPER: All right. Paula Reid, thanks so much.

Turning to our other Politics Lead, President Trump touring the renovations at the Federal Reserve earlier today alongside Chairman Jerome Powell.

[18:05:05]

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is live at the White House for us. Kaitlan, we saw Trump clashing with Powell a bit over what the actual total cost of these renovations is. Tell us more.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake. It was a pretty remarkable scene. And we actually didn't know it was going to be President Trump and the Fed chair, Jay Powell, until the president posted that shortly before he headed over. This is the construction site, keep in mind, where they are renovating the headquarters for the Federal Reserve. That has been at the center of some accusations coming out of the White House, where they have said that the Fed chair has mismanaged that project, that it has been basically way too expensive and has overdone and overdone with the budgets that they had initially allocated for what this Federal Reserve -- what renovation was going to cost. And so the president himself was touring the actual construction site today, said that Fed Chair Jay Powell was going to be there with him. You saw the two of them in hard hats.

Initially, Jake, before this moment that I'm about to show you, the Fed chair had stepped out of the camera and off to the side of this, the president ushered him to come back and stand there with him on camera. And then this remarkable moment happened where the president was saying that he believes he was looking at a form that the Federal Reserve entire project is going to cost $3.1 billion, and the Federal Reserve chair shook his head and said, no.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand at about 3.1 as well.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: 3.1, 3.2.

JEROME POWELL, CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL RESERVE: This came from us?

TRUMP: Yes. I don't know who does that. Are you including the Martin (ph) renovation? You just added --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's our entire capital.

POWELL: You just added in a third building is what that is. That's a third building, including the --

TRUMP: It's a building that's being built.

POWELL: No, it's been -- it was built five years ago. We finished Martin five years ago.

TRUMP: It's part of the overall work. So --

POWELL: But it's not new.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: So, the Fed chair there, Jake, saying that this is a third building. It's already been completed. It's already done. The president was essentially arguing. That's a distinction without a difference. We just talked to two of the president's top advisers that were with him on that trip. They were essentially arguing that this is from the numbers. That the Federal Reserve had published about what this is going to cost.

But, really, Jake, the whole point of this is when it comes to the president's clear unhappiness with the Federal Reserve chair, it's not exactly just about this building. It's about the fact that interest rates have not been lowered time and time again despite how the president has felt since he returned to office, that they should be lowered because of the numbers of how the U.S. economy is doing. He still holds that position and he made that clear.

But, Jake, when he walked out of that tour that he did with the Federal Reserve chair, he spoke with reporters, took a few questions, and he seemed to cool on this idea of firing him or using what they say is the costly mismanagement of this project as a pretense to fire him. And instead said, it's already being built. They're going to build it and have the president kind of take a look at that and let them finish it. And he cited how well the U.S. economy is doing, saying basically the U.S. can afford it.

Now, whether or not that means that Jay Powell's job is safe for now following that construction site remains to be seen. But, certainly, the president came out of there softening his criticism of him some saying that there was no tension during that meeting, and that he believes the Fed chair is going to do the right thing. We know what that means, Jake, translation, lowering fed rates.

TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. And don't miss Kaitlan on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. That's tonight and every weeknight, 9:00 P.M. Eastern only on CNN.

Joining us now, award-winning Miami Herald Investigative Reporter Julie K. Brown, who exposed many horrific details of the Epstein sex trafficking story previously not brought to light. In fact, it was her 2018 story that brought this all back into the force. She's also the author of a great 2021 book on the subject that I highly recommend called Perversion of Justice, the Jeffrey Epstein Story. Julie, great to have you again on the show.

So, the Justice Department said that the purpose of Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche's meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell is to gain information that could perhaps lead to additional prosecutions. Do you think that she might have new information that she would offer to the Justice Department now?

JULIE K. BROWN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, THE MIAMI HERALD: Well, that's kind of a two part question there. Yes, she knows exactly what Epstein was doing. She has a lot of information. But whether she's going to give it up or to the Justice Department is another story.

Obviously, she wants some kind of a pardon or some kind of a deal. And, you know, so at what cost will they get this information and are they really seeking new information or trying to somehow absolve the president here by getting her to say President Trump was not involved. I mean, I sense that they would rather tailor this whole kind of negotiation to exactly what they want her to say and what they don't want her to say.

So, you know, this is a very complicated situation and I know that the victims are very concerned that this might turn into some other kind of a sweetheart deal, like Jeffrey Epstein's did, whereas they're negotiating something here that they don't have a say in, or that it might just come out without their input, for example.

[18:10:08]

TAPPER: Yes. I mean, that would be a travesty because, obviously, Ghislaine Maxwell, according to court records, according to your reporting, like she groomed a lot of these minor girls to become victims of Jeffrey Epstein and his wealthy friends.

She did not admit to any of that. You would've thought she would've if she wanted to reduce her time in prison, but she never did when she was prosecuted. And then of course, there's a question of her credibility. I mean, this is somebody who was charged with perjury, not convicted of it. The charge was dropped because they had bigger charges against her, and she's a liar about what she did.

BROWN: Yes, I mean, that was what got her into trouble to begin with, because she sued the survivor, Virginia Giuffre, for defamation, and Virginia countersued her. And as a result of the litigation in that civil suit, Maxwell had to give a number of depositions. The first deposition, she was completely uncooperative, wouldn't answer the lawyer's question. They had to get a judge involved to force her to give another deposition. The second deposition, she also was completely uncooperative. She was literally pounding her hands on the table, angry, denying that she even knew Virginia, so even though we have a photo of her in the background with Prince Andrew.

So, she -- that was part of the perjury charge that was against her, was some of the testimony that she gave during those depositions.

TAPPER: Yes. Are you at all concerned? And if you're not comfortable with it, then are the victims with whom you speak concerned that the person conducting this interview, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, is a former defense attorney for President Trump?

BROWN: I think that the whole picture doesn't feel right. Not only, I think, to the victims, but probably there are people in the public eye that see that this whole -- I mean, why do you even have to announce that you're doing this? This isn't the way that these kinds of things normally happen. And she's been in jail for a couple years now. So, the whole way that this is being handled is out of the ordinary anyway.

So, to send someone who has such a connection to the president, again, the thought is that perhaps what they really want out of her is for her to say, oh, Donald Trump wasn't involved in any of this. That's what people think that his goal is, is really to get somehow exonerate, if that's the right word, because he hasn't -- the president hasn't really been found to be that connected in that way to Epstein's crimes. But perhaps he feels that this would help if she says he wasn't involved.

TAPPER: Yes. I mean, why not to send some line prosecutor who works for the Justice Department or the U.S. attorney's office, who has a good reputation?

Julie Brown, thank you so much, always great to have you on.

BROWN: Thank you.

TAPPER: And some breaking news in our money leave, the Federal Communications Commission has just approved the pending merger between Paramount Global and Skydance Media. This follows months of regulatory uncertainty and lots of bending of the knee by both companies.

Let's bring in CNN Chief Media Analyst Brian Stelter and Bill Carter who authorized -- who authored two books about late night T.V. and has covered the industry for decades,

Brian, put this into context for us, why this is a big deal and the implications it may have.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Right. Paramount has been tortured for many months as it pursued this merger. It needed Trump administration approval because it has local T.V. stations with licenses all across the country. Normally, the independent FCC reviews these matters in a rather boring way, but now with President Trump back in office, the FCC has become much more partisan and Chairman Brendan Carr made clear that he wanted concessions from the future owners.

What concessions exactly? Well, I just spoke with Carl on the phone and he is very happy about CBS announcing they'll have an ombudsman in the future and the promise not to have any new DEI policies in effect. He's also happy about new localism measures.

So, he voted today to bless this deal. Now, it can take effect in the coming weeks. But a deal is done at what price, right? People remember that settlement earlier this month, Paramount settling with President Trump to get rid of a legally dubious lawsuit against 60 Minutes. And as you know, Jake, 60 Minutes is one of many properties owned by Paramount that have been in the news lately. South Park in the news, as you just mentioned, for its criticism of Trump, The Daily Show, the Late show is Stephen Colbert, and, of course, the cancelation of the Late Show is Stephen Colbert is a part of this conversation, even though CBS says it was canceled purely for financial reasons.

[18:15:00] Some of Colbert's fans are now left to wonder if the cancelation was a secret concession of sorts.

Again, CBS has disputed that, saying the financial bottom was falling out of late night, but the question continues to swirl because, as you said, Paramount making a number of concessions in public to get this deal approved tonight.

TAPPER: Yes. I mean, look, late night does have financial problems, Bill Carter, not just at CBS, but the timing of it. And if CBS, if Skydance, if Paramount, were going to make this decision, announcing it right now, literally days before this merger was approved, looks fishy. Trump, of course, celebrated the cancellation of Colbert's show. You said that even if CBS says Trump had nothing to do with it, Trump thinks he did. Tell us more.

BILL CARTER, FORMER MEDIA REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, you know, Trump in the fall literally called for CBS to terminate Stephen Colbert's contract. He did make that public and he said, you know, the guy's unfunny or whatever, but, you know, he's a critic. He doesn't want him on the air. And then now we have him celebrating the fact that he's off the air. And he said something like, you know, if I had something to do with it, it's good, or something, when he talked about the other late night guys he'd like to get rid of.

You know, it looks bad and I don't think CBS cares. I don't think Paramount cares. CBS cares, I think, maybe, but, certainly, the people of CBS cares. But Paramount had to make this deal. It was going to be a huge disaster for them if Trump stood in the way. They'd have a huge penalty payment. So, the timing makes it suspicious, and they probably don't care that it's suspicious now because the deal is done.

TAPPER: Yes, a lot of rich people are going to get richer. Brian Stelter, Bill Carter, thanks so much.

California has filed nearly three dozen lawsuits against the second Trump administration. I'm going to talk to the state's Democratic attorney general about those lawsuits, next.

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TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, the state of California is continuing to take on President Trump with the state filing its 34th, 3, 4, lawsuit against the Trump administration in just six months. This time, California is suing the White House for its abrupt decision to stop allowing access to critical safety net programs, such as Head Start, domestic violence shelter, and soup kitchens based on immigration status.

With me now to discuss this lawsuit is the California attorney general, Democrat Rob Bonta. Thanks for joining us, Attorney General Bonta.

So, in your lawsuit, you allege this move from the administration is reversing three decades of federal practice and that it could also hurt not just immigrants but many U.S. legal residents and citizens. What do you make of the argument that taxpayer dollars are for U.S. citizens and not for people who are in this country illegally?

ROB BONTA (D), CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: That is the argument, but that's not what the law is here. Congress has decided that for certain safety net services, emergency services they will provide them to everyone because it makes us all healthier, makes us all safer, whether it be someone going to a shelter facing domestic violence or homelessness or someone who's hungry going to a food bank or a soup kitchen or someone in mental health crisis who needs support, or someone in Head Start. The block grants have been provided for three decades without any requirement for proof of citizenship. And the president can't change that.

Congress may if they go through the right process and pass a new law, but the president can't, under the spending clause and under the Administrative Procedures Act, make this change abruptly in this way. He's changing conditions in midstream. He's turning his back to reliance interests. He hasn't gone through notice and comment. It's not a reasoned, rational approach. It's coercive.

So, there's a whole lot of reasons we set forth in our complaint. While this conduct is unlawful, the argument you make could be carried out in unlawful way through Congress, but it has not here. It's been done by the executive branch, by the president. He desperately wants Congress' power, but he doesn't have it. We have a separation of powers. He has to honor that. And he's broken the law here.

Yet again, 34th time in six months, more than once a week, he is a repeat offender when it comes to breaking the law. He has been lawless in his approach, trampling over the Constitution, violating rights and freedoms, and breaking the law, left and right, and we are going to court repeatedly to hold him accountable and generally prevailing.

TAPPER: I wanted to get your thoughts on the executive order President Trump signed today that aims to make it easier for states and for cities to move homeless people off the streets and into rehabilitation centers there. Homelessness is obviously a huge issue in California. There are more than 100,000 homeless people in your state. What's your reaction to the executive order?

BONTA: There was a major Supreme Court case a few months ago that sort of changed, the legal regime for how cities and local jurisdictions can relate to our homeless populations, the Grants Pass case. And I've always believed there needs to be an important balance where we continue to maintain our humanity and compassion, but also make sure that people aren't on the streets threatening public safety and we remove the encampments.

But we don't just push the problem away and move the problem. We solve the problem by bringing folks indoors where they have wraparound services, mental health services, addiction services, if that's what they need, a roof over their head, of course, maybe other services to help them get on their feet and be successful. But we should never surrender our compassion and our humanity as we try to address real problems as homelessness has been in California.

So, any executive order that turns its back on humanity and compassion will be something that will, I don't think, strike the right balance.

TAPPER: California, as you know well has an independent commission that draws the Congressional district seats. Your governor, Gavin Newsom, might try to get rid of it in order to get more Democratic seats. He says this is in a response to how Texas is trying to redraw its Congressional map to make more House Republican seats. Would you support Democratic gerrymandering in this tit-for-tat way?

BONTA: I would support a lawful approach to blunting and neutralizing the raw and inappropriate exercise of gerrymandering power in Texas to try to tip the balance in the next set of elections.

[18:25:09]

I think California can and should lawfully respond to any effort that Texas engages in, their gaming of the maps in Texas. We should neutralize any gains that they try to seek, if we can do it lawfully, and I believe we can. I think Governor Newsom is fighting for the future of our state and our nation. I support him in doing so in lawful ways. There is a lawful path that he is exploring and, frankly, I have engaged, my team has engaged with his on this issue.

And so should Texas decide to take this draconian step, we will meet them every step of the way lawfully to blunt the advantage they try to seek wrongfully.

TAPPER: So, specifically, if they add five Republican seats, you're going to add five Democratic seats, I mean, that kind of tit-for-tat?

BONTA: Yes, I think we should. And we need to fight. We need to be ruthless and lawful and principled in our approach, but we cannot let them make these blunt power grabs without a response. We will respond. And any effort that they take will be met in kind and it will be neutralized lawfully by California.

TAPPER: Attorney General of California Rob Bonta, thank you, sir. I appreciate your time.

BONTA: Thanks for having me. Good to see you again, Jake.

TAPPER: A viral video shows deputies, sheriff's deputies punching a man during a traffic stop in Florida. We're going to break down the sheriff's office's explanation for what happened, and we're going to talk to the driver and his attorney, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM MCNEIL JR., ARRESTED IN TRAFFIC STOP NOW UNDER INVESTIGATION: What is your reason?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [18:30:00]

TAPPER: In our National Leader, lawyers for a black college student are calling for an independent investigation after a police officer punched the 22-year-old in the face during a traffic stop. Cell phone video from inside William McNeil Jr.'s car shows part of the incident that took place in Jacksonville, Florida in February. McNeil claims he wanted an explanation as to why he was pulled over and why sheriff's deputies wanted him to get out of the car.

The sheriff's office released body cam footage of the incident and the sheriff said this about the incident earlier this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF T.K. WATERS, JACKSONVILLE SHERIFF'S OFFICE: McNeil refused to provide stopping officers with his driver's license and registration. 14 seconds later, he locked his car door and refused to exit the vehicle despite being told many times that he was under arrest. Moreover, McNeil was warned seven times that he needed to open the door and exit because he was under arrest or resisting an officer without violence or police would be forced to break his car window.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now when asked for comment today, the sheriff's office told The Lead, quote, as this is pending litigation, we would not be able to comment further, unquote.

Joining me now is William McNeil Jr. and his attorney, Ben Crump. William thank you for joining us.

This incident happened in February. Tell us why you decided to release this video now. Tell us how your life has changed since this happened.

MCNIEL: I basically just got tired of not being normal and I'm dealing with this situation on my own. So, I decided to video it and also because other men and women who's dealt with police brutality, you know, I needed to get the word out.

TAPPER: Ben, I want you to -- Ben Crump, I want you to listen to something the sheriff said earlier this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WATERS: Yes, there absolutely was force used by the arresting officers, and, yes, that force is ugly. But as I've said many times before, the reality is that all force, all violence is ugly. And just because force is ugly does not mean it's unlawful or contrary to policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, the sheriff's department says that the state attorney's office investigated the officers, the sheriff deputies, and determined none of them violated any criminal laws. We reached out to the state attorney's office for comment. They said they're going to have a statement in the coming days. You're calling for an independent investigation. Tell us why.

BEN CRUMP, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, respectfully, Jake Tapper, this is --

TAPPER: Oh, we lost Ben. Oh, there you are. Say that again. We lost you for a second there.

CRUMP: Respectfully, Jake Tapper, this is a classic case of driving while black. The sheriff cannot justify this. He can't condone this. He can't -- he needs to condemn this. I mean, he should say directly to the American public that this does not represent our training, our policies, our values, and he should immediately fire this officer who used excessive force and brutalizing this young man for simply asking, why are you stopping me, Jake.

I articulate that it is a 21st century Rosa Parks moment where black people in America just get fed up and tired of their rights constantly being trampled on and being disrespected, and there's no justifying this. Believe your eyes. Believe your ears. This was police brutality for driving while black.

TAPPER: William, in the sheriff's deputies incident report, he wrote, quote, the suspect continued to refuse to comply, at which time I broke the driver's window and opened the driver's door. I along with other officers on the scene removed the suspect from the vehicle. The suspect was reaching for the floorboard of the vehicle where a large knife was sitting, unquote. What's your response to that?

MCNEIL: I never reached for the knife because when the knife was under the seat. And I also fear for my life being held at gunpoint and not only that (INAUDIBLE) protect me or abusing their power.

[18:35:03]

TAPPER: Ben Crump, do you plan to file a lawsuit against the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office?

CRUMP: My co-counsel, Harry Daniels, and I are going to explore every possible legal remedy to get some measure of justice for Will McNeil Jr., but more importantly, to try to set a precedent that, America, this is not right. Are we going to be a democracy where we respect the constitution in due process, or are we going to become a police state where the police have no accountability and they can do what they want to certain people.

Driving while black is real, Jake. Some people can't fathom it, but some of us have to deal with it every single day in America.

TAPPER: William, what was going through your head when this traffic stop was happening? Why did you lock the door?

MCNEIL: I locked the door because I fear for my life, and I had a better chance that -- I had a better chance at living if the officer was to decide to shoot me that day, as he did put his hand on the holster of his gun before he reached out for the door. That's the reason why I closed the door.

TAPPER: William McNeil Jr., Ben Crump, thanks to both of you for your time. I really appreciate it.

CRUMP: Thank you, Jake.

MCNEIL: Thank you.

TAPPER: What changes could be coming to National Parks after President Trump's executive order? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

TAPPER: In our National Lead, is acknowledging historical facts, such as slavery, the same as disparaging Americans? An executive order signed in March could instruct national parks across the United States to remove signs that mention matters, such as slavery or the treatment of Native Americans, or even climate change.

A group of historians and rangers are fighting back against what they say is an attempt to whitewash and erase history.

Joining us now to discuss, Alan Spears, he's the senior director for cultural resources at the National Parks Conservation Association. Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it.

ALAN SPEARS, SENIOR DIRECTOR FOR CULTURAL RESOURCES, NATIONAL PARKS CONSERVATION ASSOCIATION: My pleasure. So, what are some examples of facts that the Trump administration is definitely trying to get rid of or even contemplating getting rid of?

SPEARS: Oh, well, we can add to that growing list anything that has to do with slavery in the civil war, civil rights, labor rights, women's rights, all those things. And we're seeing the National Park Service Park superintendents have to create a list of items that might be problematic or refer to the country on a negative light, and then ship those back to the Interior Department for review.

TAPPER: So, I'm from Philadelphia and I saw a piece in The Philadelphia Inquirer that said that an unassailable fact that George Washington had nine slaves brought from Virginia to Philadelphia might be removed from Independence Hall?

SPEARS: That's right. Because I think what's happening right now is the idea is to narrow the focus of American history so tightly that we lose sight of a lot of the things that helped to make this country. We have a shared national narrative here. We've got a lot of things in there that times where we did great things, where we excelled as a nation. But there are also times when, as President Lincoln said, we failed to live up to the better angels of our nature. That's our story too.

And what we're seeing right now are efforts to kind of whitewash, sanitize and censor history as it's told in our national parks. TAPPER: Do you and your colleagues have any repercussions other than asking them not to remove this or coming on the show and respectfully saying that all of history is worth discussing?

SPEARS: Well, we hopefully have a great deal of support from the public. The Q.R. codes that went into national parks about a month ago are asking people to sort of write in and tattle on National Park Service sites if they see anything that's negative. What we've seen is 10 to 1, 20 to 1, 30 to 1 response rate, where people are telling us how much they love national parks and how much they want the truth in our history, that they don't want to see things censored.

So, we've got a good upper work coming from the grassroots level in the public, and we hope to capitalize on that, drive public support. We need Congress to step in and sort of help to stop and then reverse this issue right now. But we're in the fight for our lives. This is about as serious as it gets.

TAPPER: So, here's the devil advocate's question for you. What do you say to an American tourist who says, you know what, this is the greatest country on earth and I'm sick of hearing how we're the bad guys? And when I go to -- this is not how I feel. And when I go to, you know, the Independence Hall, I don't want to be remembered of the bad things. I want to be remembered -- I want to be reminded of the good things. What would you say to that tourist?

SPEARS: I would say to that tourist this, that our history is our shared national narrative. That's our shared experience. And the way that history works in the national parks is it helps to bring people together. And great countries do not avoid their history. We learn from it. We confront it when necessary. That gives us an opportunity to heal and to come together. And that's important now more than ever in terms of where we are in the history of this country.

So, we see this as something that is additive, not something that pulls people apart. And I think the American people can handle the truth.

TAPPER: Has anything been taken down yet, or is it just this could happen, this likely will happen? But I'm just wondering, are there any examples of this was done?

SPEARS: Well, certainly, what we've seen related to The Stonewall Inn in Lower Manhattan and other parks service sites that are referencing the LGBTQ experience is removal of the letter T, removal of reference to transgender. We have seen images and quotes from Harriet Tubman removed from an underground railroad site. So, the trend that we're seeing is taking us in a direction that we think is very dangerous, very aggressive, and, quite frankly, un-American.

TAPPER: What was the Tubman quote that was removed? I don't know about this.

SPEARS: The Tubman quote, she -- you know, she was a freedom fighter, a spy for the union, led troops and during the American Civil War.

[18:45:02]

And so, there are there are quotes from her that talk about the hardness of slavery and the fact that African Americans had to overcome by flight, by resistance, by force, by any means necessary, the ability to be enslaved people. They wanted freedom that much.

And that's a little bit too risque, I think, for some people who are trying to abide by the presidents directive and secretarial order 3431 from Secretary Burgum at the Interior Department.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Alan Spears, thanks so much. Really appreciate you coming here. Thanks so much.

SPEARS: It's great to be here Thank you so much.

TAPPER: Keep us posted on what happens. Okay?

SPEARS: We'll do that. Thank you.

TAPPER: We care a lot about history on the show.

SPEARS: Thank you.

TAPPER: Thank you.

Our small business series takes us to Minnesota next for a closer look at how Trump's tariffs are impacting the wedding industry. Should customers expect to see prices keep rising?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: It is time for our "Business Leaders" series, where we hear from small business owners, coast to coast about the impact of Trump's tariffs on their businesses.

Let's go to Rochester, Minnesota, where Finery Bridal Chic is a bridal boutique that offers top quality service for brides with mid-range budgets.

[18:50:02]

Owner Claire Landgraf joins us now.

Claire, where do you source your gowns from and how are tariffs affecting your business?

CLAIRE LANDGRAF, OWNER, FINERY BRIDAL CHIC: Hi, Jake, thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate you giving a platform for my industry to speak about everything that's going on here.

Ninety percent of bridal gowns are sourced from China, and the ones that aren't, that small 10 percent, those even get materials from -- from China as well. And so all of my gowns are sourced from China at this point, and the tariffs have heavily impacted the ability to get these gowns in timely manners and the ability to keep prices down. TAPPER: So, some businesses -- we've been talking to dozens. Some are

eating the cost of the tariffs, some are raising prices. You've taken a slightly different approach in how you shape your contracts with clients. Tell us about that.

LANDGRAF: Yes. So, I didn't feel right about raising prices across the board, seeing as how wedding gowns are, by and large, special order items that are ordered several months in advance. So, a bride comes in and places an order and it might take 6 to 8 months for her gown to arrive once it has been ordered.

Since everything is up. In the air right now with regard to Trump's tariff plan, we just don't know what's going to happen down the line when brides' gowns do arrive.

So, what I've decided to do is that I'm line iteming the tariff costs that I am passing along to the bride. I am eating some of that cost, but some of it does have to be passed along since I am a small business, I'm line iteming that in my contract and just telling the brides that when -- when their gowns arrive, that we'll assess the situation and if the tariffs have been lessened or removed at that point, then I'll refund that back to them because I just don't feel right about taking money. That will be charged to me when their gowns hit U.S. soil if that tariff is not in place at that point.

TAPPER: How have the brides taken this interesting way of dealing with the tariffs? And have you seen the tariffs affect the way that brides purchase their wedding gowns?

LANDGRAF: So by and large, most brides have been very understanding and knowing that this isn't something that I'm choosing to do. This is something that's being imposed upon our industry as a whole.

And everyone has been very understanding of the fact that this is just the way that things are right now in our country. I have seen brides taking a little bit -- a little bit longer to make decisions. Their budgets may have been impacted by a couple of hundred, if not more than a couple hundred dollars when it comes to these tariff charges being added on to the gown price.

And so, I think they're just taking a little bit more time to be mindful about their decision, make sure they're really sure about the gown that they are choosing and the amount of money that they're spending, because these are their hard earned dollars.

TAPPER: What message do you think President Trump and lawmakers in Washington are not hearing from small business owners about the impact of the tariffs?

LANDGRAF: So, Jake, I'd like to start by saying that no one believes in this country more than the American entrepreneur or small business owner.

We open our businesses and open our doors and bring our ideas to America because we believe in this country and we believe in this country's economics. And it's really difficult to make all of this work and make a small business work when the policies just don't support that.

And so, I think that the misnomer out there is that the tariff is paid by the foreign country or the exporter, when in fact these tariffs are being paid by the importers, they are being paid by small businesses who are importing these goods to then pass along to people who have purchased them in the American public. And I would really just love for lawmakers to help -- help us help ourselves at this point. It's a really fun and exciting job to be a small business owner, but not having any insight as to how long this is going to last or how the impact is going to hit us long term, really prevents us from being able to forecast as well.

TAPPER: All right, the boutique again for anybody in the Rochester, Minnesota area, it's called Finery Bridal Chic, and the owner is Claire Landgraf.

Claire, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

LANDGRAF: Thank you for having me.

TAPPER: Coming up next, we're going to take a look at the life and legacy of wrestling legend Hulk Hogan, dead today, age of 71.

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[18:59:14]

TAPPER: In our pop culture lead tonight, wrestling legend Hulk Hogan died tonight from a suspected cardiac arrest. He was for years, the face of pro wrestling, known for his blond hair and his bulging biceps and his bandanas, his larger than life personality in and out of the ring, not to mention controversies made him a household name and a mainstream star, landing commercials, starring in films.

After his wrestling days were over, he stepped into the political ring. He stole the spotlight at the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee when he ripped his shirt off and revealed that underneath, he was wearing a different shirt, sporting the names Trump, Vance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HULK HOGAN, WRESTLING LEGEND: And I said, let Trumpamania run wild, brother. Let Trumpamania --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In our money lead, Uber is launching a new preference feature in the U.S. for women drivers and women riders to request a ride with another woman.

The in-app feature has already been piloted in dozens of countries and will be released in L.A., San Francisco and Detroit before expanding across the country.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now. I will see you tomorrow.