Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Victims' Families Slam Maxwell's Move To Lower-Security Prison; Markets Down After Dismal Jobs Report, Trump's New Tariffs; Trump Repositions Nuclear Subs Amid Spat With Former Russian President; $200M "Trump-Style" Ballroom Planned For White House; Man Who Bought $10M Birkin Bag Explains His Record Bid. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired August 01, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper.

This hour major questions about Ghislaine Maxwell, the longtime associate of Jeffrey Epstein, who's serving a 20-year sentence for sex trafficking. So, why was she moved from a prison in Florida to another in Texas? What CNN is learning about that transfer.

Plus, President Trump announcing a slew of new terrorists around every country in the world, how some of those countries are responding to the sweeping changes.

Also, President Trump deploying two nuclear submarines after what he calls provocative statements by Russia's former leader, Dmitry Medvedev.

And a mystery buyer revealed. Hear from a person who spent $10 million at an auction for that original Birkin bag. It was not me. You might be surprised at who it is though, and the reasoning.

The Lead tonight, the person convicted of sex trafficking underage girls for Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, has been transferred to a lower security prison in Texas. The family of Virginia Giuffre, a victim of Maxwell and Epstein's sex trafficking, says the move is a, quote, horrid, an outrage and sounds like a cover-up.

We start things off with CNN's Kaitlan Collins, who broke the news of the transfer. Kaitlan, the president just weighed in on this. What did he say?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. The president side stepped a question on this just now as he was leaving the White House about why Ghislaine Maxwell has been moved, and if the president had knowledge about this as this was going to happen. Obviously, it was rather unexpected. We found out today that she had been moved -- of course, she had been held in a federal correction facility in Tallahassee, Florida. That is where she was when she went and spoke with the deputy attorney

general, Todd Blanche. She left and went over to the federal courthouse for those two days of about ten hours of conversation with him. And then she returned to this facility until today. We learned that she was transferred from that federal facility in Florida to a minimum security prison camp-style place basically in Texas.

And so this has raised a lot of questions about the timing of why this happened, and, of course, the decision-making behind this and whether or not it was tied to those conversations that she had with the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche. We reached out to her legal team. They did not comment on why she was moved. Obviously, this has also been a moment where she has been under high scrutiny and very much in the press, obviously, over the last few weeks.

And Phil, I can tell you, as we're still trying to ascertain more details about why exactly she was moved and what this means for Ghislaine Maxwell's future. Several members of one of the Epstein accusers, Virginia Giuffre, and other accusers themselves are furious about this move. And they put out a very lengthy statement, condemning it earlier.

And I just want to read in part because they believe that basically she's getting preferential treatment is what they say in this statement. And they say, this is the justice system failing victims right before our eyes. They say, the American public should be enraged by the preferential treatment given to a pedophile and a criminally charged child sex offender.

And so just in that lengthy statement, you can see how angry these families are and what they are reading into this move.

MATTINGLY: Kaitlan, before this all happened, you spoke to members of Virginia Giuffre's family last night. What stood out to you in the conversation?

COLLINS: It was a really raw and personal and emotional conversation. And one thing that I had talked to him about was, you know, what made them want to speak out now? And essentially it was a lot of what's been happening with the president invoking Virginia's name the other day when he was asked about her on Air Force One and acknowledge that, yes, she used to work at Mar-a-Lago, when he said that she had been stolen from Mar-a-Lago, and also just because their sister, who died by suicide earlier this year was such an advocate for survivors later in her life. And they felt the need to continue speaking out for survivors who are watching what's happening and how they feel being unfairly treated.

I just want you to listen to what one of her brothers had to say to me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Sky, when you heard the word -- hear the word stolen used to describe what happened to your sister when she was recruited away and sex trafficked, I wonder what goes through your mind. SKY ROBERTS, BROTHER OF VIRGINIA GIUFFRE: She wasn't stolen. She was preyed upon at his property, at President Trump's property. And I think it's very important that we don't treat it like stolen. It seems very impersonal. It feels very much like an object. And these survivors are not objects, women are not objects.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: And, Phil, I think the biggest thing that they drove home in that conversation, her two brothers and their wives, was there are people at the heart of this. You know, we talk about whether she's getting immunity or where she's being held and, you know, what the president knew or whether you had suspicions. They wanted to remind everyone that there are survivors at the heart of this, a lot of them who are still alive, who are watching all of this play out, and just to remember, you know, what they had to endure, what their sister had to endure.

[18:05:02]

And they also called for the release of all the documents related to Jeffrey Epstein because they said that they believed there should be transparency and all that information should be out there.

MATTINGLY: It was a very powerful interview. Kaitlan Collins, thank you as always.

Kaitlan has much more tonight on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. Look for that at 9:00 Eastern here on CNN.

Well, Trial Lawyer Andrea Lewis joins us now from West Palm Beach, Florida. She has vast experience prosecuting sexual abuse crimes, and her firm has brought cases on behalf of Epstein's victims. Andrea, just to start, what do you make of this transfer, the news that Kaitlan broke here, to a minimum security prison camp in Texas? What's it supposed to accomplish?

ANDREA LEWIS, FORMER FELONY PROSECUTOR: Well, that's anyone's guess. And I think you just hit the nail on the head, Phil. The fact that we are questioning this, the fact that the public doesn't know what the purpose of the transfer for, what was for, the fact that the victim's families aren't clear about what the purpose of this transfer was. That all goes back to the root of the problem since day one in this whole saga, which is a complete lack of transparency. And it is that lack of transparency that has been the problem, and it will continue to be the problem.

What we need to do here is just we know something very bad happened. Bring it to light, you know, let's hold the bad actors accountable and let's just be honest with the general public.

MATTINGLY: To that point I want to play -- Kaitlan mentioned her interview last night with Virginia Giuffre's family. I want to play some sound from that. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: Do you think your sister would have wanted this information out there?

AMANDA ROBERTS, SISTER-IN-LAW OF VIRGINIA GIUFFRE: I think one of the last months that she was with us, we had a conversation about that, and still to the day that we lost her, she was still fighting for those documents to be released. They are sitting in our court system right now. She wanted the world to know what they've done to her and so many other survivors. And she had been fighting that to her very last day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Andrea, your points about transparency, certainly understood, I think embraced by a lot of people. You've worked with sexual abuse survivors. Do you think that most victims would also rather have all that information out there right now?

LEWIS: Absolutely. And so here's the thing, and this is well documented. When sexual abuse survivors, when their trauma is not acknowledged, when their trauma is, in any way, cover up, covered up or not acknowledged as being as significant that it is, that actually retraumatizes them.

So, the fact that everybody has brushed this under the rug intentionally at their expense and in some circumstances actually said, you're lying, we don't believe you, we're not going to prosecute on your behalf, that, in and of itself, is traumatizing.

And so for a moment, right, the world knew all of the wrong that Jeffrey Epstein and his cohorts had done for so long and everything looked like we were finally going to get some sunshine on this darkness. And then now, circumstances like this come around and it doesn't seem like much has changed at all.

MATTINGLY: It's a really great point. The House Oversight Committee subpoenaed Maxwell to sit for a deposition, which Maxwell's attorney said was a nonstarter if they don't get immunity. Now, the committee rejected that request today, but did agree to delay the deposition until after the Supreme Court weighs in on her pending appeal. What do you make of kind of the back and forth this new development here?

LEWIS: Well, you know, what are they hoping to gain out of this and why would anyone be negotiating with her after what we know that she's done? One of the other things that she asked for, Phil, which is just unheard of, is a list of the questions that she's going to be asked ahead of time. Who -- why would anyone ever afford a convicted felon that in these circumstances? It's completely absurd.

What they should be doing is going and getting these records, releasing the records that have been kept quiet or kept, you know, behind, locked and sealed for so long. And so everybody knows what happened, not only for the victims, but also to hold the other perpetrators accountable.

MATTINGLY: And just real quick before I let you go, do you have hope that will actually happen? Do you believe that's a possibility here?

LEWIS: You know, there's been so many promises made by various politicians, and so we've seen the outcry from everyone across the country that really wants that to happen. So, for a moment, it seemed like there was a possibility. And I think for -- I think most people would agree that that has quickly slipped away, and I think the likelihood is very slim.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Still a lot more questions than answers.

[18:10:01]

Andrea Lewis, thanks so much for your time. I appreciate it.

LEWIS: Thank you for having me.

MATTINGLY: Well, we're going around the world next for the reaction pouring into President Trump's brand new round of tariff rates set to go into effect in less than one week.

Plus, a Republican congressman pressed by his constituents about the humanitarian crisis playing out and Gaza. Join me with his reaction after last night's heated town hall.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Breaking news in the Money Lead today, President Trump fired the woman who oversees the jobs reports, Dr. Erika McEntarger, nominated by President Biden, overwhelmingly confirmed by the U.S. Senate last year. More on that in a moment.

But, first, the massive week for the American economy, all leading up to today's deadline for Trump to set his new tariff rates for countries across the globe, the blanket 10 percent rate holding steady for countries the U.S. has a trade surplus with. That number popped up to 15 percent for countries with a trade deficit with the U.S. That's about 40 countries. Unless you had your rates set because more than a dozen with even higher tar tariff rates based on the existing trade frameworks or letters President Trump sent to their leaders.

[18:15:01]

A little confusing, but let's go around the globe and get some international reaction to the tariff news. We start with China, where the tariff pause is set to expire on August 12th. CNN's Marc Stewart is there. Marc, what's the latest?

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And, Phil, as the world grapples with these announcements, here in Beijing, the fate of a U.S.-China trade truce remains uncertain. It's set to expire on August 12th. Earlier this week in Stockholm, we saw diplomats from both China and the United States. The issues here are many, involving everything from economics to natural resources and technology. There are also issues of ego, as both President Trump and Chinese Leader Xi Jinping want to appear strong. Phil?

MATTINGLY: Marc Stewart, thanks so much.

Let's head over to Europe, where the E.U. narrowly dodged a 30 percent tariff after negotiating a 15 percent deal on most imports last week. CNN's Anna Cooban is in London. Anna?

ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: Well, Phil, the news won't be a shock to the European Union. They struck a deal with Trump on Sunday to set a 15 percent tariff on their goods, and that is still in place. But the real surprise in all this is Switzerland. That's not part of the E.U., but it now faces a 39 percent levy on its goods. And that's despite what the Swiss government has come out to say recently is, in that, there was a lot of progress and trade negotiation. So, there's a lot of confusion over there. Phil?

MATTINGLY: Anna Cooban, thanks so much.

Mexico is getting a 90-day reprieve from higher tariffs. President Trump announced that on Thursday. CNN's Valeria Leon is in Mexico City. Valeria?

VALERIA LEON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Phil, $President Claudia Sheinbaum today that Mexico scored a win by reaching the best possible agreement in the new global commercial order launched by the Trump administration, managing to avoid a 30 percent tariff for 90 days. And while the latest tariff extension has provided some breathing space for continued dialogue, the current focus over this period is on negotiating a longer term trade deal between the two nations. So, this tariff extension is a window of opportunity. Phil?

MATTINGLY: Valeria Leon, thanks so much.

I want to bring in Gene Sperling, the former director of the National Economic Council under the Obama and Clinton administrations, senior adviser in the Biden administration, ton of experience in government, which is what I want to ask you about the breaking news we got just a couple of hours ago.

The jobs report obviously this morning raised some flags, just 73,000 jobs added last month. The revised numbers revised down in May and June, about 258,000. President Trump reacted this afternoon on Truth Social posting about the Commissioner of Labor Statistics, quote, we need accurate jobs numbers. I have directed my team to fire this Biden political appointee immediately and alleging the numbers have been manipulated.

You tweeted about this possibility hours before it happened because you posed this scenario back in June in an op-ed, you wrote about Trump's criticism of the BLS. How many negative economic releases would Trump swallow before bulldozing career economists and statisticians and the integrity of U.S. data? What's your reaction today?

GENE SPERLING, WHITE HUOSE AMERICAN RESCUE COORDINATOR, BIDEN ADMINISTRATION: Yes. I guess what I'd like to say is that regardless of what your politics are, one should really recognize that this firing is both completely baseless and completely harmful, not just right now, but to our economic standing in the world.

Why is it baseless? Yes, it is the case that the Bureau of Labor Statistics, who gives us our job numbers, they get better information with time and they revise them. Now, the president tried to say this person was suspect because there'd been a large revision in November after the election.

Well, first of all, when they do what's called a benchmark revision, where they kind of re-look what the baseline they're adjusting numbers from, it's often somewhat large. But this turned out to be 550,000 eventually. That was actually smaller than the revision downward that happened under President Obama. So, it wasn't particularly large. And, secondly, it got announced in August if there was some political manipulation going on, which there wasn't, it would've been to hurt vice President Harris in her election.

So, the accusation is completely baseless both on the facts and the lack of any evidence that these dedicated career objective statisticians would ever do something like this. But then like why is it so harmful? Because there's something that President Trump should like. It's called American exceptionalism. And it is the belief that the United States is the place you can trust economically, that our dollar is the reserve currency, that our bonds are the safe haven in the storm, that our commitment to the rule of law and the integrity of our institutions mean you can trust investing long-term in the United States.

[18:20:13]

When you start having a president who starts threatening companies, private law firms, university, then starts impugning and compromising the independence of the Federal Reserve and then, more than anything in the history of our country, looks like they're politicizing the numbers that Americans, that investors all over the world rely on, that's not just a harm for the next few months. That is putting a doubt, the integrity of the United States, the exceptionalism that started with Alexander Hamilton, paying all of our war debts and showing that the word of the U.S. meant was golden. It meant everything.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

SPERLING: When that's threatened, it could hurt for generations.

MATTINGLY: And I should note that you guys had a Trump appointee in that role for the first 2.5 years of the Biden administration, didn't really hear anything --

SPERLING: That is absolutely right.

MATTINGLY: -- complaining about that.

Real quick before I let you go, which we could probably spend about three hours talking about this next subject, but in terms of the tariff announcements today, it's real, right? I think there's a lot of perception that Trump would walk it back or he didn't mean it, or that he was going to kind of vacillate about where it landed. It landed now. What do you see happening in the next month or two?

SPERLING: Yes. I mean, you have to say that President Trump has been somewhat successful in his goal of using kind of bilateral threats to get higher tariffs than anybody imagined. The question really now is, is that a win for American families? And I don't think it is, and I don't think most economists.

And it's not just the weaker job numbers today. It is that we know that people have been buying to get ahead of the tariffs, but, eventually, the tariffs are going to raise prices. We're already seeing that and not in obscure things. We're seeing Procter and Gamble, Black and Decker, Walmart. Nike, Ford Motor Company, they're all talking about raising prices. We're seeing the president put a 50 percent tariff on Brazil where we get coffee, right, and beef from. And guess what, folks? We're not going to be producing our own coffee.

I think those things are going to hurt at the grocery store. They're going to hurt prices. And oddly enough, the president's going to be moving the country towards higher prices, maybe the thing that helped elect him in the first place.

So, I think it's puzzling, but the test is going to be in, in what we see happen with prices and with higher prices and lower growth going forward. And I have to say, I think most people are maybe not super dark, but do not see our country's economy moving in the right direction.

MATTINGLY: Now, Gene, I want to ask you before I let you go, the president just posting about Jerome Powell on Truth Social saying, Quote, Too Late Powell should resign, just like Adriana Kugler, a Biden appointee, resigned. She knew he was doing the wrong thing on interest rates. He should resign also.

I'm careful on this kind of stuff because there's a reason he hasn't taken the action with Jerome Powell that he did today, say, with the BLS commissioner. When he can, he does. His team has been very clear to him both on legal grounds. This is tenuous at best if he pursued this without cause. It's not even tenuous, it's not a thing. And on market grounds, it would be potentially catastrophic. When he posts something like this, particularly after the action he took at BLS today, what do you think about?

SPERLING: Well, again, I think it is a great threat to like our integrity. And, you know, let me put it in a simple terms I can, the United States was that guy that if you lent money to or invested in, they were always honest, they were always straightforward, they were independent in monetary policy, nonpolitical in the numbers that you put out. When you threaten that, you become more risky and people are going to be less likely to invest or lend. And that means higher interest rates, higher mortgage rates, higher car loan rates, all the things that the president doesn't want to have.

I mean, look, the fact is this tariff policy has moved growth down and inflation up. And if you're the Fed, you have a dual mandate, full employment and low inflation. So, when you both move -- when you move in what they call a stagflationary direction, when prices go up and growth goes down, then it puts the Fed in a difficult place.

And so this is really a self-inflicted wound. Jerome Powell might be the most straight down the middle, moderate Republican there is.

[18:25:01]

And I think it's just, you know, very unfortunate that he's taking this approach instead of just arguing the benefits of his economic policies.

MATTINGLY: Gene Sperling, despite your Michigan fandom, as an Ohio State alum, I do miss our battles back and forth about that. I do -- I always appreciate your time, my friend.

SPERLING: What's happened the last four years in the Michigan-Ohio State game?

MATTINGLY: Ohio State won a national title. Ohio State won a national title. Chiefs (ph) fairly. Thanks so much, my friend. Talk soon.

All right, up next, Trump's dramatic power move today deploying two nuclear submarines to be strategically positioned near Russia over statements the president deemed provocative by Russia's former president. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: In our World Lead, President Trump playing some Battleship this Friday, not really in a fun way. Today, he ordered two nuclear submarines to reposition near Russia in response to what he said were aggressive remarks by Dmitry Medvedev, the country's former president, who's current deputy chairman of its security council.

[18:30:07]

This afternoon, Trump said the sub move just to be, quote, totally prepared.

Well, also in our World Lead, today, U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff and U.S. Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee got a rather sanitized tour of an aid site in Gaza run by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. It's a controversial group backed by the U.S and Israel.

Palestinians there today say the Israeli military shot at them while waiting for food. A nearby hospital says three were killed and several injured, while Israel's military says it fired warning shots and wasn't aware of any casualties.

As President Trump tells Axios, he's working on a plan to, quote, get people fed, Americans, they want answers on the humanitarian crisis. One Wisconsin Republican heard directly from his constituents were frustrated last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Too many people in Gaza are starving. What do you have to say about that?

REP. BRYAN STEIL (R-WI): I'm in the view that Israel has the right to defend itself in the easy and simplest way to end this horrific war is for Hamas to surrender and release their hostages.

I appreciate everybody coming out tonight. It doesn't mean that everyone fully agreed with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Wisconsin Republican Congressman Brian Steil joins me now. And, Congressman, as I told you, I appreciate the lawmakers that actually do town halls. I understand that people who make a lot of noise aren't necessarily representative of everybody who was there.

But the question I have right now, as the president makes clear, he's concerned about this issue as well, the humanitarian issue on the ground is. This group, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, has raised some questions from your colleagues on the Democratic side, have raised questions about that as well. Do you have a sense of what exactly they're doing and whether or not there is any sign that it's been effective up to this point?

STEIL: Well, I think it's positive that our envoy and Ambassador Huckabee were in Israel on a fact-finding mission. I don't think it's easy for anyone to look at the images coming out of Gaza as it relates to children and not recognize that something needs to change. As I said last night in the town hall, there's an easy solution to this, of course, and that is for Hamas to surrender and for them to release the hostages.

While that is not yet satisfied, making sure that we're in a fact- finding mission to provide relief in particular to the children of Gaza, I think, is absolutely appropriate, and I commend the president for taking this action.

MATTINGLY: What's your sense when you go back home? You were facing questions and frustration over the legislative cornerstone of the Trump agenda that you guys enacted, including this. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was always under the impression that Congress was responsible for issuing a tariff. I really feel that this is a terrible tax that's going to be placed upon the citizens of the United States.

STEIL: This really, at its core, needs to be an opportunity to make sure that other countries are treating the United States fairly. The United States --

(END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: That obviously about the president's tariff proposal, which I did want to ask you about, because trade is a very significant issue in your home state. The dairy issues with Canada in and of itself, I feel like I've probably spent about six years of my life covering when I used to cover Capitol Hill. What is your sense of the ag community of your constituents, of the state writ large, with the trade war as it stands right now?

STEIL: Our agriculture community, in particular as we come up on the harvest this fall, wants to know that we can export our goods around the globe. And for a long time, a lot of countries have not traded fairly with the United States. The president recognizes that. I would like to see us with our ultimate goal is striking these deals with our allies, opening up our markets across the globe so our farmers in Wisconsin can export corn and soybean and other products from around the country across the globe, then working with our allies and addressing the real culprit on the trade front, which is China.

And so the biggest challenge that we face is the abuses of trade agreements from China, and that's what occurred over multiple administrations. The sooner we strike these deals with our allies, and, again, I'd like to see us continue to work to lower the barriers with our allies so that we can work to address the true culprit in the room which is China.

I think there's real support amongst American people in recognizing that China has abused U.S. trade to China's benefit, and it's time that we stand up and are working on behalf of American workers and American farmers.

MATTINGLY: Yes. The market access, key component with the president's negotiating, definitely something constituents are, I have no doubt, in your district care deeply about. We'll see how that continues to play out.

One last one before I let you go, just because it started happening right before the show. Do you think the jobs data and the Bureau of Labor Statistics is rigged and political?

[18:35:01]

STEIL: The president has the right to make sure that he has a man or a woman in that position that he has full faith and confidence in. The data collection process across the board has gotten very difficult, in particular in the labor side, as more and more people enter the gig economy. And so making sure that we have the right team in place to get the data out to the American people is essential. The president has the right to choose a man or woman with Senate confirmation that he has full faith and confidence in, and making sure that we get these, this data right going forward is going to be essential.

MATTINGLY: You know, the way you answered that is 100 percent accurate and totally fair. It is very different than saying the entire thing is rigged and political, which is what the president said today.

Congressman Bryan Steil, I really appreciate your time on Friday. Thanks so much.

STEIL: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, let's get a reaction to what we just heard from our political experts. Bryan, I want to start with where we ended, which is like that's a way to do it, but like, come on. Like that's -- what the Congressman just raised is accurate. There are issues with collection right now because of technology, because of the way markets have worked, because of how things have changed over time. That is very different than this is rigged and I hate this. And oh, by the way, the last four months, I loved it when they were positive.

BRYAN LANZA, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN: Yes. Listen, I think what he sees is -- the first thing is it's sheer negligence that a Biden person has been allowed to stay on this long.

MATTINGLY: A Trump person was with Biden for 2.5 years.

LAZNA: Sure. But we're talking about this moment now and we're talking about things that matter. And they, the administration, their team knows well that the economic data is going to be scrutinized. So, if you're going to come forward and provide something, you got to make sure it's your team doing it, because that gives the president confidence in the numbers that are there.

Clearly, at this particular juncture, he doesn't feel he has confidence in a Biden administration person because this is very much a bi -- this is a very much a partisan town. We've learned that over the years. We've learned that the weaponization of the Justice Department, I'm not saying there's weaponization in data, but I'm always going to be suspicious when a political partisan at the top of that is the opposite party of this administration. That's just the reality of the game.

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Look, I disagree wholeheartedly with that. I don't like the number on my scales at home, but I ain't going to throw it out the window. Let me be clear about this that this particular person has had good numbers and bad numbers for lots of folks.

And I don't think it's the one thing, and I think they have the right to change folks out when they want to change folks out, but I think it's another thing in a line of things as we lead into the midterms of folks saying, look, this is kind of B.S. I don't agree with the way that this is being handled. It may or may not hurt him because I will agree that this is very Donald Trump being Donald Trump. And folks like Bryan, my friend here, will tell me that's what they voted for. We will see in the midterms.

MATTINGLY: Yes. I mean, on net it'll be interesting to see, because I don't think you're going to be cutting ads on BLS commissioners, I doubt.

LANZA: Please do.

MATTINGLY: On tariffs, and I've written a lot about the administration's perspective, a lot of the people who made a lot of calls that got it wrong, and I think the administration's economic advisers have felt very validated maybe until the jobs report today. Politically, how long do you think that's durable?

LANZA: You know, I think we all know we have a experienced political operative here. The voters are going to make the decision on the economy in July of next year. They're not going to make the decision right now. So, you have a window, but you have to make sure that the trend's moving in your right direction.

So, right now, some of the data before today looked very good and there was -- they were bullish about it. They have to analyze what the data really means that came out today. They have to determine whether it's -- you know, whether it's accurate or inaccurate data. You know, we all have -- I guess some people now have their suspicions.

But I think to make the decision that what's happening today in the next three months is going to matter in July, I don't think it is. I mean, it's a completely different economic world, what it looks like in July. And that's when voters make their choices of, is this president working for me and is the economy working for me? It's not going to be today, it's going to be July of next year.

ROCHA: A year. A year ago, I would sit at this panel with whoever's here and say, Joe Biden's economy's doing great. Stock market's doing great. We're creating jobs. Inflation's coming down, and Bryan and other folks would say, yes, but the real people out there ain't feeling none of this. To Bryan's point is that as we get closer to the election, what you're feeling every day, no matter what the stock market's doing, no matter what the GDP is doing, it's what real people are feeling at home as they get closer next summer, Bryan's right about that, will really determine where we're at, but it's the things that lead up to that every day when you're buying gasoline and groceries, is it price up or is it price down?

MATTINGLY: Last question --

ROCHA: Which leads to your trade question.

MATTINGLY: Yes. We got like 15 seconds. What do you think it's going to be in July? Do you think it's going to be beneficial to Democrats or no?

ROCHA: I think so.

LANZA: I'm worried.

MATTINGLY: About?

LANZA: For Republicans. It's always a bad -- it's history. It's where history is. But if you look, is a year enough, is a year going to be long enough for Trump's policies to have the impact? If you look at the first term, a year wasn't enough. You sort of need that third year into it and we're just going to miss the window.

MATTINGLY: Real quick. ROCHA: Yes. No, he's got it. It's a big thing coming up. We'll see.

MATTINGLY: Yes, they made a real gamble and a real bet. They believe it. We'll see how it plays out.

Thanks to you both. I really appreciate it.

Well, coming up in our regular series, Business Leaders, we meet a small business in Wisconsin trying to source its botanical products here in the U.S., but it's not as natural as it sounds. We'll explain, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

MATTINGLY: Time now for our Business Leader series, where we talk small business owners here on the lead about President Trump's tariffs. Bare Botanics is a skincare company based in Madison, Wisconsin, launched five years ago, and they focus on all natural ingredients and avoiding synthetic fragrances in their products.

Founder and Owner Jason Junod is joining me now. Jason really appreciates your time. Just to start, can you break down kind of how you source your products and how tariffs have affected the business so far?

JASON JUNOD, FOUNDER AND OWNER, BARE BOTANICS: Yes, of course. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me. I would say there's primarily two sides of the business that we can break down here. One is the primary part of the business, the manufacturing side, where we make about 85 percent of our products right here in Madison, Wisconsin, primarily by hand. And we have tried as much as possible over the years, I would say, even going so far to fortify our domestic supply chain and get as much as we possibly can from the United States.

We use salt from Morton, we use silk and jars made right here in the U.S. We use Green Bay Packaging for our boxes. And so tariff haven't really affected us in terms of our raw materials and our ingredients. Sure. In this globalized economy, we're using skincare ingredients from all around the world, like our coconut oil is from Indonesia.

Our jojoba oil is from Argentina.

[18:45:07]

It's a -- it's a really small impact, and for the most part, it's business as usual.

On the other side of the business, we have about 15 percent of our revenue is from what I call our accessories. These are body brushes, body gloves, things that complement our main products that we make here in Madison, Wisconsin really well. And were importing those from China. And, of course, tariffs are having a huge impact on those.

MATTINGLY: When you talk about the impact, do you pass that through to consumers in your process as you're trying to plan out kind of each quarter or your forecast ahead, where do you see those increased costs coming out of?

JUNOD: Yeah, I mean, margins are slim. We're a big-time seller on Amazon and there's only so much margin to go around. We're shipping products across the country, and I'm very fortunate to say we have not had to raise prices yet for those accessories that we're importing.

But I mean, the tariffs are changing every day, and I can't say what the next couple of months or next couple years will hold.

MATTINGLY: As a business owner, it's fascinating to hear about kind of your focus on trying to shore up the domestic supply chain, your ability to do so on one side of your business from that side of your business.

What's your message to the Trump administration about tariffs in this moment?

JUNOD: Yeah. If I ever could deliver a message directly to the administration, I would say that I'm doing my best as a small business owner. I'm dealing with the cards that I'm dealt with and the cards are constantly changing at the moment. And if there's anything I could ask, its to carve these tariffs into stone. Give me the confidence as a small business owner to react and plan on how to run my business.

And it just doesn't seem like this administration currently is planning one. And they are changing things up as they go. And we're reacting the best that we can. But to grow the business further and to really have confidence in what we're doing, I ask that the tariffs are what they are and we keep them that way.

MATTINGLY: You can shop for Bare Botanics products on their website. Obviously, Jason also mentioned Amazon as well.

Jason Junod, I really appreciate your time. Thanks so much for doing this.

JUNOD: Thanks, Phil. Appreciate it.

MATTINGLY: Well, the president says the dream ballroom he wants built at the White House will have some fancy features, but who's going to pick up the tab? We'll have details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:51:07]

MATTINGLY: Well, as the White House famously has the Lincoln bedroom, the Truman balcony, and soon, well, it's going to have the Trump ballroom. At least that's what it looks like.

CNN's Brian Todd has a look at the president's plans for big changes at the executive mansion.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Trump has long been fixated on leaving his own personal imprint on the White House grounds. His latest project will cost about $200 million, he says.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They wanted a ballroom at the White House for more than 150 years.

TODD: Construction begins next month on a grand ballroom at the White House, which will resemble the ornate Donald J. Trump ballroom at Mar- a-Lago, there will be gold and crystal chandeliers, according to the renderings, gilded Corinthian columns, a coffered ceiling with gold inlays, gold floor lamps and a checkered marble floor, three walls of arched windows will look out over the White House south lawn.

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GEORGE WASHINGTON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY: Certainly, a departure from the historic elements of the rest of the state floor of the White House.

TODD: The president and his team characterized this as a necessary addition to the White House, which has often hosted major events in a temporary tent that Trump calls a disaster, especially when it rains.

TRUMP: People are slopping down to the tent. It's not a pretty sight. The women with their lovely evening gowns, all of their hair all done, and they're a mess by the time they get in.

TODD: This is certainly not the first ambitious addition or renovation to the White House. In 1902, Theodore Roosevelt undertook an extensive remodeling which relocated the president's offices to the West Wing. In the late 1940s, Harry Truman basically had to gut the entire infrastructure of the White House.

TIMOTHY NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: What Truman did was he oversaw the restoration of a White House that was falling apart. It was so weak that one of the legs of Margaret Truman's piano broke through the floor in the residence of the White House.

TODD: First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy brought in historic furniture and fine art.

CHERVINSKY: Jackie Kennedy wanted the White House to be of museum quality when people came to visit. She wanted them to see the finest American art furniture, but also to capture the history of the White House.

TODD: President Trump says the $200 million project will be funded by him and other private donors.

Trump's already replacing the White House Rose Garden with a patio, but still keeping the roses. He also added a flagpole and a massive flag, and he's added his taste for gold to the Oval Office.

Here's a comparison from just after last year's election to, more recently.

CHERVINSKY: Most usually change out the carpet and the draperies and some art, but he definitely changed out more than is, I think, standard for presidents, and it reveals his preferences.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (on camera): White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt says the ballroom project is expected to be completed long before the end of President Trump's term. Trump himself offered to build a new White House ballroom when Barack Obama was president, and Trump says it would have been about half the cost of the current project. But Trump says he never heard back from Obama's team on the idea -- Phil.

MATTINGLY: Brian, real quick before I let you go, is this it? Do we think there's going to be more projects in the years ahead?

TODD: Well, you know, you never say this is it when Donald Trump is involved. He could have more ambitious projects for the White House. Some of these kind of took people by surprise. The ballroom didn't necessarily come as a surprise, but the flagpoles kind of did. And some of the other features, I think people are also kind of surprised at what he's done with the Rose Garden.

So, hey, never say never in the years he's got left here. It's going to be very interesting to see how different this place looks after he leaves.

MATTINGLY: That is the best possible answer.

CNN's Brian Todd, thanks so much, my friend.

Well, up next, mystery revealed. Meet the man who spent $10 million at an auction for that original Birkin handbag, and what he told CNN about why he bought it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:58:56]

MATTINGLY: We now know the mysterious buyer who paid $10 million for Jane Birkin's original Hermes handbag. Turns out the buyer was nowhere near Paris for last month's auction. It turns out it also wasn't Jake Tapper. It was Shinsuke Sakimoto, a businessman and collector based in Tokyo.

Here's the video of him placing the winning bid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Six million, at six million euros.

SHINSUKE SAKIMOTO, BUSINESSMAN: Are there many enemies? It's a one-on- one match.

They gave up. Here it comes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seven million euros.

SAKIMOTO: Wow. Amazing. For real? (END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Sakimoto also told CNN why he placed the bid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAKIMOTO: I think it's a truly artistic piece. We would like to exhibit this at museums and venues to convey this value and background to the next generation, and to inspire people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Sakimoto is a former professional soccer player in Japan. He opened his first luxury retail store in Osaka in 2004.

Well, coming up on Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION", EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin and Democratic Governor Jared Polis of Colorado. That's Sunday morning at 9:00 Eastern. And again, of course, at noon here on CNN.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now. Have a good weekend.