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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Army: 5 Wounded Soldiers Are Stable; Suspect In Custody; Epstein Strategy Dinner In Flux After Intense Coverage; Sources: Trump Says He Intends To Meet With Putin Soon; RFK Jr. Cuts Funding For mRNA Vaccine Development. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired August 06, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: My panel. We've been having this very spirited conversation in the break. I wish I could let you into it. Unfortunately, we're out of time here. Thanks to all of you for joining us today.

And if you did miss any of today's show or any of our shows, you can always catch up by listening to The Arenas podcast. You can scan the QR code below, follow wherever get you -- wherever you get your podcasts. You can also follow us on X and Instagram at thearenacnn. Jake Tapper is standing by for us for "The Lead."

Jake, welcome back.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Hey Kasie, thanks so much. Good to be back. We'll see you back in "The Arena tomorrow.

HUNT: Have a great show.

[17:00:33]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We are following the breaking news of the five soldiers shot today at Fort Stewart in southeastern Georgia, an Army base about 40 miles outside Savannah, a community of more than 10,000 people. All five victims right now are in the hospital, but Fort Stewart officials shared this afternoon that all five are in stable condition and all five are expected to recover. Thankfully, officials identified the suspected shooter as 28-year-old U.S. Army Sergeant Quornelius Radford, whom they say opened fire at his place of work with a personal weapon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GEN. JOHN LUBAS, FORT STEWART: Soldiers in the area that witnessed the shooting immediately and without hesitation tackled the soldiers, subdued him that allowed law enforcement to then take him into custody.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: That was Brigadier General John Lubas at Fort Stewart. Here's what else we know about how exactly the events unfolded this morning. Just before 11:00 a.m. we're told law enforcement was dispatched to the possible shooting at Fort Stewart. Eight minutes later, at 11:04, the base was locked down. At 11:09, emergency personnel were sent in to treat at least five soldiers shot.

They were treated on the base before being sent to the hospitals. By 11:35 a.m. the shooter had been apprehended. Thirty-five minutes later, the lockdown on the main containment area was lifted. I want to bring in CNN's Isabel Rosales.

And Isabel, where is the suspect right now and what do we know about him?

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jake, good evening. He is in pretrial confinement awaiting a charging decision. This is according to the general there of the base. He's awaiting that charging decision by the office of the Special Trial Counsel. They have -- he has also been interviewed, excuse me, by the Army Criminal Investigation Division, although it's not clear if he's actually talking to military investigators, if he's being cooperative.

Now we know that he is an active duty soldier assigned to Fort Stewart's 2nd Brigade Combat Team. He is from Jacksonville, Florida. And we know from the army that he joined back in January of 2018 as an automated logistical specialist. And back in May, he was arrested during a traffic stop that happened off base, and that was for driving under the influence.

Now, we heard from the brigadier general there that the suspected shooter's chain of command was not aware of this DUI, of this arrest until the shooting happened, and they started to look up his information in the law enforcement database. The general also mentioned that Radford has no combat history, nor did he have any behavioral background that they were aware of.

Now, as you mentioned, Jake, this is a workplace shooting. He knew these people, these were his colleagues. Critical here, the general mentioned that this was a personal gun that he brought in. So this was not a military weapon that was used in this shooting. This was his own personal gun, they're investigating how he got that onto base.

TAPPER: And Isabel, the general said that luckily all the soldiers that have been shot are expected to recover. How are they doing? What more do we know about their condition, if anything?

ROSALES: Yes. Such great news that we heard in the midst of all of this that the five soldiers who were shot, they are in stable condition. They're expected to recover. So this was a total of five soldiers. Three out of the five required surgery.

Two of them have been moved over to a trauma one center in Savannah. But again, all of them are expected to survive. They'll be OK.

TAPPER: Isabel Rosales, thanks so much. Let's discuss this with CNN Security Correspondent Josh Campbell, as well as Jason Armstrong, the former police chief of Ferguson, Missouri.

Josh, are there rules about what weapons you're allowed to bring with you on an army base?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, firearms are highly regulated. In fact, but for a select group, including law enforcement, you're essentially unable to lawfully carry a firearm on a military base. And certain installation including this one here, Fort Stewart, if a soldier brings a personal firearm on base, it has to be registered with the installation and then securely stored. You can't just carry it around with you around the base. Of course, that appears to be one of the weakest links here, is that because the individual had authorized access to the base, he was then able to come on and bring that without being searched.

I know there will be people who say, well, why don't you search every vehicle before they actually get on the installation? For those who have been to a military base, particularly during rush hour, I mean, you have cars lined up for blocks time, so I don't think that's actually realistic. That's just the threat here, potentially. And that's why the military employs other means to try to detect insider threats, Jake.

[17:05:12]

TAPPER: Chief Armstrong, we know that the suspect's in custody and that he was tackled and subdued by soldiers. What does this tell you about how this might have played out?

JASON ARMSTRONG, FORMER POLICE CHIEF, FERGUSON, MISSOURI: What it tells me is the individuals that were involved, you know, they were all in the same area, potentially they all worked together. And so whatever led this individual to make the decision to pull the weapon out and to start shooting individuals, one, it was either related to an altercation or something that was sparked in the moment, and this was an act that was just in the moment, or it was something where this individual had a long standing challenge or problem with somebody there and things escalated to where they felt the need to bring a weapon into that space and wanted to carry this out.

TAPPER: And Josh, you're still an officer in the military reserve, what does the U.S. Military do to try to prevent and stop incidents like these? Obviously, this is not as bad as the Fort Hood shooting we all remember from years ago, but it could have really -- I mean, it was -- it's bad enough, but it could have even been much worse.

CAMPBELL: Yes, absolutely. I mean, but for those soldiers subduing this person, you can only imagine how worse this could have been. To your question about what the military does, there's physical security. Anyone who goes up to a base, you roll up at the ACP, the access control point, you have military police that are there controlling access. But again, we're talking about an individual who had authorized access to be on the base.

And that's why the military regularly trains people and reinforces the training on trying to look for warning signs about potential insider threats. And that includes, you know, you have a colleague, a friend in the military, you start to notice that there's something off about them, maybe they're having, you know, different struggles financially or personally, and the goal with that training is to sensitize people that, look, you don't just sit on that information, which is why it's going to be very interesting and important here for investigators with Army CID to actually interview people in the shooter's orbit, his friends, his colleagues, any of the victims, to determine whether or not, you know, they had some type of agree -- beef with him. And so again, that's what they try to sensitize the soldiers to, that look incumbent on everyone. If you see someone who is struggling to speak up, the goal being to try to prevent something like this.

TAPPER: Chief Armstrong, what kind of information do you think law enforcement is working to get out of the suspect right now?

ARMSTRONG: The number one question that they're trying to answer is, why did this happen and how did it happen? Whenever you have an incident like this, there are going to be a lot of questions that people on the base and people in our community are going to want answers to. And you're trying to figure out what contributed to this, because the number one thing that you want to do on the other side of it is to try to ensure that this doesn't happen again. So they're going to be looking at how this happened, how he got the weapon in there, you know, why the checks and balances that they had in place failed in this instance so they can put things in place to try to prevent this from happening again.

TAPPER: And, Josh, while the motive remains unclear and under investigation, I'm curious your thoughts as to how investigators are working to figure that out right now. Obviously, they're interrogating the suspect. Beyond that, what else?

CAMPBELL: Yes, you know, we're not talking about someone just firing upon one person. And so, you know, it appears this could have been, you know, indiscriminate firing. So there will be that question. What was the motivation? Was this some type of situation between this individual and a group?

Were there other stressors that this person was then acting upon? You know, it's interesting the FBI has gone back and studied past mass shooters, the famed FBI profilers. They found certain commonalities, and that is that most people in these situations, they don't just snap one day and then start to engage in violence, but they go along this pathway and become more and more working toward that violent effort. And a lot of times in most of these situations, the profilers have found they do exhibit those warning signs. And so that will be what is critical here to try to determine what was the shooter going through in his life that then, you know, resulted in this.

Interestingly, our colleague John Miller reported that back in May, the suspect was arrested by local law enforcement, it appears, off base for driving while under the influence. It appears that information did not actually get to the military because a brigadier general who spoke just a short time ago said that they weren't aware of that past contact. And so there is this question, were the things that were spiraling in his life to include now running up against the, you know, U.S. criminal justice system? All those big questions for investigators as they try to piece together the why.

TAPPER: Well, you mentioned the U.S. criminal justice system, Josh, and I'm wondering on that. I mean, obviously the military has its own Uniform Code of Justice.

CAMPBELL: Yes.

TAPPER: Is he ultimately just going to be handed over to local law enforcement, whether the sheriff's department or the police department? Or is there some way that the military will handle this?

CAMPBELL: Yes, and when I said that, I meant the DUI off base would be handled by the regular --

[17:10:03]

TAPPER: Right.

CAMPBELL: -- U.S. criminal justice system. But he's now in the military justice system, which falls under what they call the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The military has its own Justice Department and its own prosecutors, its own courts, for example. And that is where he will be likely, I assume he will be tried here obviously for attempted murder, it appears. And you know, obviously the military can convict people and confine people, just like the U.S. Justice Department could as well. And so he certainly faces very, very serious consequences.

TAPPER: All right. Josh Campbell, Chief Armstrong, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

We're going to have much more in our breaking news ahead, five soldiers shot at an army base in Georgia. Next, I'm going to speak to a law enforcement official who led an active shooter training at this exact base just three years ago. Plus, CNN is learning tonight's Epstein strategy dinner with Trump officials is now in flux given the immense amount of attention this dinner has received. So is the dinner that we originally reported was going to be hosted by Vice President Vance with others from the administration to talk about how to handle this all. Will it be called off?

Will it be rescheduled? Will it be moved away from the VP's residence? All that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:03]

TAPPER: Back with our breaking news. Just moments ago, President Trump just spoke in the Oval Office about the shooting at Fort Stewart in Georgia. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you very much. You know this gentleman, one of the truly great legends of our time, Mike Brook (ph).

Before we begin, I'd like to say a few words about the shooting at Fort Stewart in Georgia. As you know, five people were seriously wounded and two very, very seriously hurt around 11:00 this morning. The shooter is now in custody and the Army Criminal Investigation Division is on site to ensure that the perpetrator of this atrocity, which is exactly what it is, will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

The entire nation is praying for the victims and their families and hopefully they'll fully recover and we can put this chapter behind but we're not going to forget what happened. We're going to take very good care of this person that did this, horrible person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining us now to discuss today's events is Mike Clumpner. He led an active shooting -- shooter training course at Fort Stewart itself three years ago. Thanks for joining us, Mike.

Based on your course, how would someone respond to a situation like what happened today?

MIKE CLUMPNER, SENIOR DEPUTY, RICHLAND COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: Sure. So the first thing is the 911 call that comes in. And I've had the opportunity to talk to some of the people who did respond to this event today. And the 911 communicators there did a fantastic job. They recognized right away that this was an active shooter event.

They dispatched it as an active shooter event sending numerous resources on the base to the area where the shooting was happened. In addition, they also called extra help from the county. Numerous law enforcement agencies responded, fire department agencies responded, EMS agencies responded. The security forces, I've been told, were there very quickly. As we heard, just phenomenal heroism and bravery by the soldiers who took the individual down and stopped it.

I also have been told that immediately after that, a brigade medic and other soldiers began providing care to those who are critically injured. Law enforcement arrived very quickly attempting to locate the perpetrator. The fire department arrived within just a couple minutes. They did exactly as they were taught. They quickly established unified command with law enforcement and they immediately began treating patients.

I was told that they encountered a patient with a gunshot wound who was outside of the building already. They immediately went to work with that patient and then they entered into the building to start providing care. And as they relayed to us and as we have heard, several people that they encountered were critically injured and they firmly absolutely saved lives. The heroism from the soldiers, the law enforcement response, fire and EMS, absolutely did exactly what it was supposed to do. An immediate and overwhelming response and immediately saving lives.

And I'm incredibly proud that this installation, the DoD as a whole, has taken this active assailant, active shooter threat very seriously. Fort Stewart has really taken it above and beyond. After training, they purchased more equipment, ballistic equipment, more medical equipment. They continue doing training. So hats off to Fort Stewart.

They were ready for this event to happen. And I'm exceptionally proud of what I'm hearing occur today.

TAPPER: Tell us more about the course you teach. What do you teach people to do in the event of an active shooter?

CLUMPNER: Sure. So it was a four day course. We started with an installation commander's briefing where we had the commanders and we talk about who is doing these events, the why and how the events are happening. Then we talk about specifics that commanders need to know to prepare their installation. Then as we move into the lecture courses, we provide them, as the gentleman were talking earlier about understanding why these events are happening, we discuss different motives as to why they're occurring.

And then we really get into the response. What is the response going to look like? So we spent almost a full day talking just about the 911 communication response, law enforcement, fire, EMS and emergency management response. Then we also spent time talking about what we call beyond the 60 minutes. There's numerous things that are going to occur after the 60 minutes as this event just continues to cascade.

This is just the start of this event for Fort Stewart. And then on the final it was all practical exercise. It was all outside. We did it on July 8, 2022. It was 109 degrees outside and nobody complained.

Everyone was out there for nine hours of training doing exactly what they needed to do and they were able to implement that training perfectly today.

[17:20:03]

TAPPER: Mike Clumpner, thank you so much. We're going to continue to follow this breaking news. We appreciate your time today.

Next, let's bring you another story, another major story. Tonight, Vice President J.D. Vance was originally supposed to host other top Trump administration officials to discuss how to handle the fallout from the Epstein files controversy and what, if any, other materials the administration might want to release. Now, tonight's dinner appears to be in flux. What we're learning about why that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Our politics lead, top Trump officials were set to attend a dinner at the vice president's residence at the Naval Observatory this evening. On the menu, a strategy discussion on how to handle fallout from the administration's own handling of the Epstein files. Now, after intense coverage, officials tell CNN that the dinner is now in flux. In fact, some people in the Trump administration say this dinner was never actually going to happen.

[17:25:10]

Now, we stand by the story here at CNN. Either way, we don't know whether it's ultimately going to be called off or move to another location, rescheduled. In any case, as we noted, Vance's office denied such a meeting was taking place.

The expected attendees we've been reporting here at CNN Vice President J.D. Vance, White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles, Attorney General Pam Bondi, FBI Director Kash Patel, and Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, who recently conducted a two-day interview with Epstein accomplice and convicted sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell. Note, those interviews would be a major talking point as the administration weighs whether to release an audio recording and transcript of Blanche's meetings with Ghislaine Maxwell.

A senior Trump official tells CNN that there are more than 10 hours of audio. Three sources tell us there have also been discussions around Todd Blanche possibly holding a news conference or doing a high profile interview about this topic, perhaps with podcaster Joe Rogan, who has been highly critical of the administration's handling of the Epstein case. A reminder that not all of these Trump officials have seen eye to eye on every one of these agenda items. Let's just say if the dinner happens, hopefully Susie Wiles would be a buffer sitting between Pam Bondi and Kash Patel.

One official tells CNN that some in the White House worry that making the Maxwell interview details public would just further revive the Epstein controversy. So regardless of whether or not a strategy dinner happens, this does seem like a good opportunity for we here at The Lead to try to give the attendees something else to chew on. A sincere message and some notes, if you will, of what I think would help this whole controversy. Number one, put the victims above everything else. Many of you in the administration have been talking about Epstein victims for months, for years, do you have any relationship with any of the women who were trafficked and abused by Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell?

This morning, the family of victim Virginia Giuffre issued a statement asking why no survivors had been invited to this dinner meeting. And some members of the family offered to go in Virginia Giuffre's place because she died by suicide earlier this year. They wrote, quote, "The victim's voices must be heard above all." That's the most important thing.

Number two, stop acting like we don't know what you're doing. You could all release a bunch of Epstein documents this minute if you wanted to. Remove the names of the victims and do it. Go ahead. Instead, there's all this nonsense about leaving everything up to the court.

The House Oversight Committee, led by Republicans yesterday, they're the ones leading the charge on this, issuing subpoenas to the Justice Department for files and information related to Epstein. We know that you can release documents right now. We know that.

Number three, please stop acting as if you guys weren't the ones who promised to release these documents. You did. We were paying attention.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Seriously, we need to release the Epstein list. That is an important thing.

PAM BONDI, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think tomorrow, Jesse, breaking news right now, you're going to see some Epstein information being released by my office.

It's sitting on my desk right now to review.

A truckload of evidence arrived. It's now in the possession of the FBI.

BENNY JOHNSON, "THE BENNY SHOW" PODCAST HOST: Why is the FBI protecting the greatest pederast, the largest scale pederast in human history?

KASH PATEL, DIRECTOR, FBI: Simple, because of who's on that list. Put on your big boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That's the FBI director. Number four, when and if you release any of these files beyond the victims, of course, please do not protect any one person. If you're going to release names of Epstein associates who didn't necessarily do anything wrong, but they're mentioned in these files, then release all of those names. If you cherry pick, redact this guy but not that guy, it's going to be worse. You're going to make it worse on yourselves.

You'll extend this whole thing and of course people will accuse you of a cover up, because that's what you will be doing.

Number five, real transparency. Please don't take this personally. Leaders have proven untrustworthy when it comes to the Jeffrey Epstein scandal going back decades. No one is going to get the benefit of the doubt. So please just release as much and as many of the transcripts as you can, as much of the audio as you can.

While you're at it, please explain exactly why last week Ghislaine Maxwell was moved from a Florida prison to a much lower security federal prison camp in Texas. It was an uncommon move. It came right on the heels for discussions with Deputy Attorney General Blanche. Really fishy looking. No explanation has been given. This is all just getting worse and worse for you.

[17:30:10]

Number six, in terms of the files, don't forget the Treasury Department documents on Jeffrey Epstein.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RON WYDEN (D-OR): Somewhere in the Treasury Department, Mr. President, locked away in a cabinet drawer, there's a big Epstein file that's full of actionable information. Follow the money details about his financing and operations that await investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That was Democratic Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon last month. He's not just speculating. Treasury Department officials under the Biden administration actually allowed Wyden's staff to view the files, and Wyden says they contain records relating to more than a billion dollars sent to Jeffrey Epstein, plus a lack of timely suspicious activity reports filed by banks handling that money. Why would the banks not do that?

He said the Treasury documents show that Epstein used multiple Russian banks to process payments related to sex trafficking. These are potential leads. Follow the money.

And finally, our last bit of advice for you on this. Number seven, don't forget what this is about. This is about justice. It defies logic that Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell are the only two people who had knowledge of or involvement in this vast sex trafficking ring, and yet they're the only ones ever brought to justice.

So don't you want to bring the full weight of the justice system down upon anyone else who may have had any hand in this, this hideous sex trafficking ring, many of the victims of whom were children? Don't you? It's hero time. You can be heroes here.

All right. That concludes our notes to the Trump officials who may attend any sort of Epstein strategy meeting one way or the other. Just one more tip for any of the guests. If you do go to Vice President Vance's dinner, don't forget to say thank you. He likes it when you thank him.

Let's go to CNN's Kristen Holmes at the White House. Kristen, the White House is saying this dinner never was supposed to happen. It's all made up. It's all fake news.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, I do want to clarify a little bit here because so many sources inside of the White House and inside of Vice President Vance's orbit had told us that this meeting existed, and no one is actually denying that they were going to have dinner tonight. What they're denying is that there was a meeting set to talk about Epstein's strategy.

They are being very careful with how they parse these words, and because of the coverage, because of the fact that there was so much focus on the Epstein portion of this meeting or of this dinner, that is why it is now in flux. They are trying to figure out if they want to move it, do they want to cancel it altogether. But let's look at the facts here.

Let's talk about who is going to be at this dinner. You have Susie Wiles, the chief of staff. You have Vice President J.D. Vance. You have the head of the FBI, Kash Patel, and you have the attorney general, Pam Bondi. The last time we talked about a meeting that had Pam Bondi, Susie Wiles, and Kash Patel, it ended in an explosion where Dan Bongino -- Dan Bongino, the deputy director of the FBI, stormed out after allegations he was leaking information about the attorney general.

That was all over the information release of the Epstein case. So the idea that there would be a dinner with all of these principals who the last time that they had this kind of sit-down was explosive and not have a conversation about Epstein or the way that they would handle Epstein as they move forward seems a little bit out of sorts, particularly, as you mentioned, they are weighing a huge issue right now, which is whether or not to release the audio, to release the transcripts from that sit-down with the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche and Ghislaine Maxwell.

The thing to keep in mind here is that they are trying to take control of the narrative. And in order to do that, White House officials believe the entire cabinet, the entire of the administration has to be on the same page so they can be on the offensive instead of the defensive when it comes to Epstein, which, of course, is what we've seen for the last several weeks.

TAPPER: All right, Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.

[17:34:00]

Just hours after a top U.S. official met with Vladimir Putin, President Trump says he may now meet with the Russian leader as soon as next week, he himself. What might that accomplish? We're live to Moscow next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our World Lead, President Trump this afternoon told European leaders that he intends to meet soon with Russian President Vladimir Putin potentially as early as next week, followed by a trilateral meeting with Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, sources familiar with the call said.

This comes after today's meeting between U.S. Envoy Steve Witkoff and President Putin, which President Trump called highly productive. CNN's Fred Pleitgen is in Moscow.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): As Russian President Vladimir Putin welcomed U.S. Presidential Envoy Steve Witkoff to the Kremlin, Russian state media with special wall-to-wall coverage.

We begin with urgent news, the host says. Just at this moment, President Putin is meeting with U.S. Special Envoy Witkoff. One expert warning not to make the U.S. President into an adversary.

We need to avoid getting Donald Trump in the ranks of sincere enemies, he says. He himself does not want to be our sincere enemy. Trump is saying, dear Russia, let's do something so that I don't look like a loser. Russia can give him this and not force him to introduce these sanctions. He himself does not need them.

President Trump is demanding serious movement towards a ceasefire in Ukraine.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I'm here to get us out of it.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): And threatening major sanctions against Russia by the end of this week, if there's no progress. But while the Russians were laying on the hospitality, the head of Russia's direct investment fund taking Steve Witkoff for a walk in a Moscow park. After earlier picking Witkoff up from the airport and then posting this photo on social media.

After an almost three hour meeting with Vladimir Putin, the Kremlin framing the talks as little more than an exchange of positions.

[17:40:09]

On our part in particular, some signals were transmitted on the Ukrainian issue and corresponding signals were also received from President Trump, this Kremlin aide says. The situation now is that our president has full information that is our signals, signals from President Trump.

PLEITGEN: Both the Kremlin and the White House say they understand just how important today's meeting is. The Russians of course want to prevent any massive sanctions against their economy by President Trump. At the same time, they are still eyeing generally improved relations between Moscow and Washington.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): But the trajectory seems to be heading in the opposite direction. The Trump administration announcing new tariffs against India, one of the main clients for Russian oil, shortly after Steve Witkoff's motorcade left the Kremlin for the journey back to the U.S.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN (on camera): And Jake, tonight we're yet to hear back from the Kremlin about whether or not Vladimir Putin is actually up for a meeting with President Trump as early as next week.

In the past, the Kremlin has said that Vladimir Putin is very much willing to meet with President Trump. But they also say that such a meeting needs to be well prepared, obviously requires a lot of detail and certainly also requires a lot of very difficult logistics as well. Jake?

TAPPER: CNN's Fred Pleitgen in Moscow, thanks.

I'm joined now by former Deputy Director of National Intelligence Beth Sanner and CNN's Phil Mattingly. So Beth, let me start with you. The White House this afternoon said that President Trump is open to meeting with both Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

Sources say Trump told European leaders at the meeting with Putin could theoretically happen as soon as next week. Let's play this reaction from Zelenskyy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): It seems that Russia is now more inclined towards ceasefire. The pressure on them is working. But the main thing is that they do not deceive us in the details, either us nor the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your reaction?

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think that Zelenskyy there is encouraging. It's called positive reinforcement. I've done that with my own kid. So but I do think that in terms of what has really been put on the table today and what has been accomplished, if all that has been accomplished is a meeting between Trump and Putin, and then we have secondary tariffs on Indian goods, which means that Indian goods coming to the United States, U.S. consumers will pay more for those.

And they don't include anything related to fuel or this petroleum that India is re-exporting. And I think that it doesn't really get us very far. Now, if Trump and Putin and Zelenskyy actually would get together in a room, and this would be a huge concession by Putin, absolutely would be 180 where he was before.

TAPPER: Yes.

SANNER: Then that would be big. But I, you know, we -- we haven't heard that yet. So we have to wait and see.

TAPPER: Yes, I mean, look, Zelenskyy is saying the pressure on Russia is working. So credit where credit's due. You have some new reporting, Phil, that President Trump's threat of 50 percent tariffs on imports from India because India is buying Russian oil, that that threat is -- is in effect, too.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: It's in effect. And as Fred pointed out, launched those new tariffs, the 25 percent tariff shortly after Steve Witkoff actually left the meeting and have not launched any secondary sanctions on any other country that purchases oil or other energy products from Russia, which underscores a really critical point, which I think Beth actually kind of nodded to a little bit.

This particular set of sanctions was not actually about Russian energy purchases or trying to ramp up pressure. There are still a threat of that could come tomorrow. The White House says it's still going to come tomorrow on secondary sanctions. This was about bilateral trade talks with India and the President's frustration with the breakdown of a deal in India's unwillingness to open very specific markets that really kind of set things completely ablaze over the course of the last couple of weeks.

I would note these new tariffs, 25 percent on top of the existing 25 percent, 21 days before they actually take effect --

TAPPER: Yes.

MATTINGLY: -- this is a leverage play trying to make a bilateral negotiation and trying to get India to open up more markets.

SANNER: Yes.

MATTINGLY: This is not about the meetings we were watching today.

SANNER: Right. Because if it was, we would see these tariffs be put on China, which imports a lot more oil than India does. And we would probably see secondary sanctions. And we might see sanctions on Shadow Fleet, on the Russian oil tanker fleet. That is something they've talked about. And this, if they really want to put pressure on Russia, that's what they need to do.

TAPPER: And the president's deadline for the Russians to make some movement towards some sort of end of the conflict is -- is Friday. Do you think there's any chance that anything's going to happen?

SANNER: This is that.

TAPPER: Yes.

SANNER: This is that. Friday's gone, as far as I'm concerned. I don't really think there's more, do you? I don't know.

MATTINGLY: What you're saying about the other sanctions that we're kind of waiting, not just on secondary sanctions, but also the Shadow Fleet sanctions.

SANNER: Yes.

[17:44:58]

MATTINGLY: We're kind of -- all right. If we don't want to go all the way on the secondary sanctions, particularly given how up in the air the China detente trade truce is right now until the president. That was an option they could take. It's still on the table as far as I know. But I think to best point, this seems to be some measure of progress that would cause the President to say, well, I guess we don't need to do this right now. Or if we're going to do it, make way off in the future and see what else can take place in the meantime.

TAPPER: All right. Fascinating stuff. Phil Mattingly, Beth Sanner, thanks to both of you.

The new move by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to cancel contracts and pull funding for vaccines that fight respiratory viruses. We're going to get a vaccine specialist to fact check RFK Jr.'s claims. That's next.

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TAPPER: In our Health Lead, the Department of Health and Human Services is canceling contracts and pulling funding for vaccines that fight respiratory viruses such as COVID and the flu. HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. announced that 22 mRNA vaccine development projects, totaling around $500 million, will be canceled and no new projects will be started.

[17:55:23]

This is certainly an interesting turn of events. While there are those, including many leading physicians and scientists and laymen like those of us at this show, who give credit to President Trump for Operation Warp Speed, which created the COVID vaccines, which ultimately saved millions of lives, the President now has an HHS secretary who makes arguments that would essentially blame President Trump for what Kennedy has called the deadliest vaccine ever made. It's false and bizarre and frankly dangerous.

Joining us now is Dr. Paul Offit. He's a vaccine scientist at Children's Hospital Philadelphia and an outside vaccine advisor to the FDA. Dr. Offit, take a listen to this little snippet of what Senator -- of what Secretary Kennedy said in his announcement last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: Most of these shots are for flu or COVID, but as the pandemic showed us, mRNA vaccines don't perform well against viruses that infect the upper respiratory tract. Here's the problem, mRNA only codes for a small part of the viral proteins, usually a single antigen. One mutation and the vaccine becomes ineffective.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Is -- is that true? Is any of that true?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, VACCINE SCIENTIST, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: No, none of it's true. I mean, you have, in the case of the mRNA COVID vaccines, it coded for the protein that sits on the surface of the virus. Therefore, you make antibodies against that protein, which doesn't allow the virus to bind to cells and enter cells. And it's worked very well. It's, as you noted, saved millions of lives safely.

We have other single-protein vaccines. The hepatitis B vaccine, the human papillomavirus vaccine, are also vaccines that work extremely well as single-protein vaccines, so he doesn't know what he's talking about.

TAPPER: It's really weird just to be in a situation where you and I are saying, President Trump, in greenlighting Operation Warp Speed, helped save millions of lives, and he appoints a health secretary that basically says that that vaccine murdered people.

OFFIT: No, I think Operation Warp Speed, frankly, was one of the greatest scientific or medical achievements in my lifetime. And my lifetime includes the development of the polio vaccine. It was a remarkable effort.

Within 11 months of that virus coming into this country, we made a vaccine using a novel technology that saved millions of lives safely. And now you have a secretary of Health and Human Services who has said, you said in your intro, what created the most dangerous vaccine ever made. I would think President Trump would be angry about a statement like that.

TAPPER: It's odd. The President was just asked in the Oval Office whether he was at odds with the medical community over this. He said Operation Warp Speed has been amazing, but they are moving on to other things. Do you think that this move by Kennedy undermines the effectiveness of the vaccines created during Operation Warp Speed, which was obviously one of President Trump's greatest achievements?

OFFIT: Well, it's -- this -- this vaccine had saved lives. And what's more important, I think, is not only was it applicable to SARS-CoV-2, the cause of COVID, it also can be used in other respiratory infections and also other infectious diseases, and even more importantly, other platforms, like cancer or gene therapy. We know more about this vaccine than I think any other vaccine that's ever been made.

This vaccine has been given to billions of people, including pregnant women, including babies. So we know a lot about this vaccine, which can help us with these other platforms.

TAPPER: This decision that Kennedy made is just another RFK Jr. decision that goes along with vaccine skepticism. In the last couple of months, he pulled back vaccine recommendations around COVID. He fired a CDC advisory panel that makes vaccine recommendations. Is -- are any of these decisions that he's making based on scientific data, or is it all based on his personal beliefs? And as we've said on the show before, he has no scientific expertise. He has no medical expertise. And he has said so many things that are just patently false about vaccines, it's hard to even count them.

OFFIT: Right. He went on X and in a one-minute video said that we, Health and Human Services, are not recommending this vaccine for healthy young children. We know that thousands of children over the past year were hospitalized with COVID. One in five were admitted to the intensive care unit and 152 children died.

He also said that we're not recommending this vaccine for pregnant women. When you know that pregnancy is a high-risk complication or a high-risk condition for severe COVID, we're the only country in the world that doesn't consider pregnancy a high-risk condition for severe COVID. He just makes it up.

He talks about ushering in an era of radical transparency and nearly, as I can tell, a high-risk condition for severe COVID. He just makes it up. He talks about ushering in an era of radical transparency and nearly, as I can tell, the only thing he's ushered in is something that's radical, it's certainly not transparent. [17:55:13]

TAPPER: Dr. Paul Offit, thanks so much. Appreciate your expertise, as always.

We're following breaking news out of Georgia. Five soldiers were shot at Fort Stewart today. Our team's just got brand-new information about how today's tragedy unfolded. We're going to bring you those details in moments.

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[17:59:53]

TAPPER: The Lead tonight, breaking news from Georgia. Key new details about the suspect accused of shooting five soldiers at Fort Stewart earlier today. A law enforcement official now telling CNN that the suspect had a disagreement with one of the victims yesterday, which allegedly erupted in shocking violence --