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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump: Could Arrange Putin-Zelenskyy Meeting If Summit Goes Well; Trump To Seek "Long-Term Extensions" Of D.C. Police Takeover; Trump Announces 2025 Kennedy Center Honorees; Paul Whelan Reacclimating After 5 Years Detained In Russia; Reporter Responds To Spam Text From Job Recruiter, Details How Interactions Got "Weirder Than I Could Have Imagined". Aired 5-6p ET

Aired August 13, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Follow along wherever you get your podcasts. You can also follow us on X and Instagram. We are at thearenacnn. Jake Tapper is standing by for "The Lead."

And Jake, I understand you are about to head to Alaska. Of course, President Trump's summit with Vladimir Putin set for Friday. Looking forward to it.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Yes, it's a big flight and a huge, huge newsworthy moment. And excited and honored to be anchoring it for CNN. I'll be in Anchorage, Anderson will be in D.C.

Thanks, Kasie. We'll see you back in "The Arena" tomorrow.

HUNT: Thanks, Jake. Have a great show.

[17:00:37]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Trump warns Russia will face severe consequences if Putin does not end his war against Ukraine. The Lead starts right now.

Just days before his face to face with Vladimir Putin, President Trump is getting an earful today from European leaders, including the Ukrainian leader himself as Russia makes more territorial gains on his country. An ally fret the summit might only help the Russian dictator. Plus, President Trump with a surprise announcement about the upcoming Kennedy Center honors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A big evening. I've been asked to host.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Asked by whom precisely? Well, we'll discuss. Plus how else he's shaking up the event, honoring some of the biggest names in entertainment. And expensive gifts, unbelievable job offers, we are all constantly bombarded by these texts trying to con us out of our hard earned money. What one journalist uncovered when he clicked the link and took up a scammer on his offer.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We start with our world lead. As President Trump says, if all goes well at his Alaska summit with Russia President Vladimir Putin on Friday, Mr. Trump would like to immediately arrange a follow up with one additional attendee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We'll have a quick second meeting between President Putin and President Zelenskyy and myself if they'd like to have me there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: This rather optimistic projection followed a virtual meeting that President Trump held today with Zelenskyy and the leaders of Germany, the U.K. and France. Trump described the call as, quote, "very good." But we are learning that those leaders conveyed their real fears that Putin might try to bring Trump back around to seeing the war on his terms. Putin's terms that do not square with reality as in Ukraine started the war and other lies we've heard not only from Putin, but frankly from President Trump as well in the past. So these leaders urged Trump to not unilaterally strike any peace deal with Putin during their one-on-one meeting Friday in Anchorage, Alaska, laying out four key points to their U.S. counterpart.

First, meaningful peace talks can only come after a ceasefire or lasting and significant cessation of hostilities. Second, Russia must, must face fresh sanctions if Russia does not agree to a ceasefire. Third, international borders must not be changed by force. Fourth, Ukraine must have robust and credible security guarantees. Two European diplomatic sources tell CNN that President Trump appeared to say that he would push for an unconditional cease fire on Friday and that he will not negotiate Ukrainian territory directly with Putin.

Earlier today, President Trump also promised very severe consequences on Russia if Putin does not agree to stop his war in Ukraine. Whether those consequences are sanctions or tariffs or something else, he would not say. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv, Ukraine.

And Nick, the biggest hurdle to any peace deal appears to be this concept of land swaps. President Trump has said that both sides are going to have to give up land, but neither Ukraine nor Russia are sold on this. What might these potential territorial swaps look like?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It's incredibly hard to see how this might practically work. Look, the idea, as far as we understand after U.S. Special Envoy Steve Witkoff's visit to the Kremlin over a week ago now, is that we might see a situation in which Ukraine is asked to pull out the rest of its troops from what remains of the Donetsk region under its control in exchange for a ceasefire. Now, that's something that Zelenskyy today was reaffirmed he would simply not do.

What's unclear and what's been the frustrating part for many particular European diplomats is whether this means that Putin has dropped his maximalist demands that he would get the rest of the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions, which have been part of his wider goals. But he only controls about two thirds of each. Indeed, he actually lost control of the Kherson area that they occupied in the late parts of 2022. What could Russia swap back? Well, Ukrainians say he's just giving Ukraine back parts of Ukraine, he's not giving Russian territory over.

[17:05:01]

The only possible areas that look like they might be discussable are the slivers of land up at the northern border near Sumy and Kharkiv that Russia's taken in what Putin calls a buffer zone. But that's not an equal swap at all.

Look, the concept of a land swap is incredibly hard to fathom. There have been European officials who've been frustrated at how Witkoff has even relayed that proposal. One saying he was amateurish, another saying how negotiations are much clearer and Witkoff is not involved. But we heard today from German Chancellor Friedrich Merz the idea that the legal recognition of occupied parts of Ukraine being Russia is, quote, "off the table." But he also warned there could be serious things discussed or decided in Alaska, a change in tone about this Friday meeting.

Trump, yesterday, the White House playing it down as a listening exercise. Today, Trump warning of very serious consequences if he doesn't feel Putin wants peace. The question is, what's the threshold? Do we need a ceasefire? Do we need a deal?

Do we need an agreement for further meetings? The idea of more meetings with Zelenskyy, a trilateral, a reminder that was proposed by Ukraine in May, rejected by Putin even though Trump wanted to facilitate it. Unclear what's necessarily changed here. The Europeans clear in their messaging today, Zelenskyy flying to Berlin to be alongside Merz for that meeting, really wanting to see sanctions fast if there's no progress in Alaska. One European official telling me that they felt after the call that he was privy to the threat is on of secondary sanctions, namely against India and China, big energy customers of Russia, if they don't feel there's progress, pointing out that the threat against China had an obvious effect.

But look what comes out of this meeting in Alaska between two men whose relationship is quite impenetrable, quite hard to fathom. And that often drags Putin back to Moscow's orbit, leaving many anxious here, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Nick Paton Walsh in Kyiv, Ukraine, thanks so much.

Joining me now, Halyna Yanchenko, a Ukrainian member of parliament and the People's Deputy of Ukraine. Thank you so much for joining us.

What do you make of President Trump saying that if Friday summit with Putin goes well, he will immediately arrange another meeting between Putin and Zelenskyy and Trump if they want him there? What did you make of that?

HALYNA YANCHENKO, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT: Well, we in Ukraine watch the situation very closely because we are very interested in the end of the war. Moreover, we did so much to actually bring the day of the end of the war so close. We've been having hundreds of negotiations with Russia even before the full scale invasion. Because I should remind you that actually Russia occupied some Ukrainian cities, some Ukrainian territories with population in 2014. From 2014 till the full scale invasion, we had over 200 rounds of negotiations with Russia.

But Russia is breaking all the negotiations. That's why we don't believe in direct negotiations. We don't believe Putin. We believe that Putin is pathological liar. But what we do believe, we believe in U.S. and we believe in Trump, because Trump does have tools in his hand to actually force Russia to stop occupation, to stop this unprovoked war over Russia.

TAPPER: President Trump to not strike a specific peace deal when he meets one-on-one with Putin. Do you worry that Trump will do something unilaterally and what might that mean for Ukraine?

YANCHENKO: Well, I hope that he will raise the issue of secondary sanctions during this one to one meeting, because in my opinion, Trump actually offered a lot of windows of opportunity to Putin. But Putin is simply jumping out of these windows. He's not using these opportunities to end the war. So in my opinion, it's already time when president of the U.S. understood that Putin understands only one language, the language of force. And that's why actually we see, and I want to highlight it, I want to highlight a shift in Donald Trump's rhetoric.

He has started to actually talk about secondary sanctions. If he actually can't force Russia, what he definitely can force is the economic situation and a flow of funds to Russia. Especially when we are talking about Russian partners as China or India who keep buying oil from Russia and basically keep funding this war of aggression. I see the change of the rhetorics. I see that Trump has all the tools.

And that's why I really believe that we are as close to the end of the war as we have never been before.

TAPPER: Yes, it does seem as though the Ukrainian people are very eager for the war to end. In Gallup's most recent poll of Ukrainians, which was taken in July, 69 percent of Ukrainians say they want a negotiated end to this war as soon as possible. That's a complete turnaround in public opinion. In 2022, only 22 preferred Ukraine to seek a negotiated end of the war, with many more saying that Ukraine should fight until victory.

[17:10:22]

Are Ukrainian leaders taking this into account, the -- how exhausted the Ukrainian people are of this war they offer obviously are suffering so much?

YANCHENKO: Of course everyone is taking it into account, but what is important is the details of these negotiations. I should stress that no land trading can take place. There should be no discussion about Ukraine giving away some of our lands voluntarily to Russia. Why? Because we are not talking about lands only.

We are talking about people living that -- there. Can you imagine, for example, you and your city will be given away to another country like Donald Trump as a president of us will say that, OK, now your city belongs to Mexico, for example? Or who will say, OK, Alaska was a Russian territory 150 years ago, so we give Alaska away to Russia. Can you imagine such a situation in the U.S.?

TAPPER: I can't. I can't. But what concessions might Ukraine -- what concessions might Ukraine be willing to make?

YANCHENKO: The thing is that -- OK, it's very important to understand and to realize that Ukraine unlikely Russia, Ukraine is a democratic country. So in Ukraine, president is not the person who can make all the decision because all of his decision will be either supported by society and accepted or there will be basically a revolution. There will be huge consequences and there will be huge consequences not only for Ukrainian leadership, but also for American leadership if Ukrainian society is forced into something that society does not want.

TAPPER: All right, Halyna --

YANCHENKO: We can't --

TAPPER: Go ahead --

YANCHENKO: We can't talk about land trading because we will be talking actually about trading of human lives.

TAPPER: Yes.

YANCHENKO: And this is absolutely not acceptable. In addition, the final thing that I want to mention, a lot of Ukrainians understand the nature of Russia. For, for example, if for the average American, becoming rich means better life or more time with family, for Russia, becoming wealthy means more occupation, more aggressive activities toward their neighbors and stuff like that. A lot of people on the occupied territories were kidnapped, tortured, killed and stuff like that. And people who live nearby the frontline understand if they will be occupied, they will have the same basically fate.

They will be killed, they will be tortured, they will be kidnapped. Actually, it's not a secret, and it was mentioned numerously that Russia keeps kidnapping Ukrainian children.

TAPPER: Yes.

YANCHENKO: So basically they're just, you know, taking children from Ukrainian families and sending them out.

TAPPER: Yes, that was --

YANCHENKO: So this is not acceptable. This treatment of Ukrainians, of Ukrainian people is not acceptable. We don't want to trade our people. This is simply not acceptable and not fair.

TAPPER: All right. Halyna Yanchenko, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.

CNN we'll have special coverage of Friday's Trump Putin summit. I will lead that coverage live from Anchorage, Alaska. Anderson Cooper will hold down the ford in Washington, D.C. Again, that's Friday here on CNN.

Later this hour, we're going to get some unique perspective on this summit from Paul Whelan. That's the American former Marine wrongfully detained by Putin in Russia for five and a half years. But first, what the president says he's going to do next to try to extend the federal law enforcement takeover of Washington, D.C. as he ramps up the National Guard presence starting this evening. Plus, fresh off her album announcement, Taylor Swift apparently has something else on the way.

[17:14:22]

Our sources are digging into this new countdown on her website. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our politics lead, the White House says the number of National Guard troops in Washington, D.C. is expected to expand this evening as President Trump's federal of the city's police force enters its third day. The White House added that the National Guard overnight presence will expand to 24/7. This after U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia Jeanine Pirro went on Fox to highlight the number of arrests made in D.C. last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEANINE PIRRO, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: There were 43 arrests and we see seven handguns. And every night it's something else. But this is a message that we're not going tolerate crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: CNN's Kristen Holmes is at the White House for us right now.

Kristen, today President Trump said he's going to ask Congress to extend this federal takeover beyond 30 days.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Jake. I mean, first he actually said if there's a national emergency, he doesn't have to go through Congress. Now, he and his team both know that would require a lot of legal hurdles and defining national emergency in this case. Then he quickly said that after 30 days, he does plan on bringing this to Congress. So it appears that this would go much longer than many originally thought, particularly, oh, that includes Mayor Muriel Bowser, who seemed to think that there was an end time cap on this.

And President Trump himself doesn't seem to think that that is the case. Now, here's what he said about this ramping up of federal law enforcement presence in D.C. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're going to fight crime. That's a good thing. Already they're saying he's a dictator. The place is going to hell and we've got to stop it. So instead of saying he's a dictator, they should say we're going to join him and make Washington safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, a couple things to note here, Jake, I mean, we heard President Trump also talking about essentially that this was a test period to look at other cities as well, like Chicago, like New York. What does this actually look like in the long term? That's been one of the biggest questions.

[17:20:08]

It should be made clear that jurisdiction he has to do this does not apply in cities like New York and Chicago. This is all because of home rule. There are not as many safeguards up around D.C. because it does not have statehood. So how this would actually translate nationwide, that remains to be seen. But clearly President Trump and likely some of the White House is viewing this as a model for something they will want to try in the future.

TAPPER: All right, Kristen Holmes at the White House, thanks so much.

Here to discuss CNN Senior Political Commentator Scott Jennings, Margaret Hoover of PBS's "Firing Line," and former CNN Senior Political Analyst John Avlon.

Margaret, let me start with you. So the mayor of D.C., Muriel Bowser, she came off rather subdued on Monday when this announcement was made by President Trump. But there was a tonal shift that many observed last night when she held a community town hall. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MURIEL BOWSER, (D) WASHINGTON, D.C.: We all need to do what we can in our space, in our lane to protect our city and to protect our autonomy, to protect our home rule and get to the other side of this guy and make sure we elect the Democratic House so that we have a backstop to this authoritarian push.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Authoritarian push. What do you make of that?

MARGARET HOOVER, HOST, PBS "FIRING LINE": Well, of course she feels that way as the mayor of her city. She believes she has jurisdiction for city. Except for that she sort of doesn't, right? This is why the president has authority to send in the National Guard to her city.

Look, she has two audiences. She has the audience of her local -- the local leadership in Washington, D.C. but she is also, you know, the tone -- there is a total shift between that and also between her saying, actually, we'll take all the help we can get because we do want to -- we do want security in the city. And if we have extra resources, how can we deploy these resources in a way that best streamlines, in a way that will provide more security for the people of our city?

The real question, I think if you step back, is this concern about the normalization of sending federal troops into U.S. Cities. And most Americans, when they see these images, can become desensitized to these images of a president sending troops into American cities. He has authority to do this here. He doesn't have authority to do it in Chicago or in New York. And people, I think all of us should be concerned about checks and balances and a president who is very eager to send federal troops into American cities.

TAPPER: So, John, one of the things that I hear from Democrats is no crime in D.C. is on the downswing. The city's doing better. Here's what President Trump had to say about that. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The numbers are worse than they ever are. Don't let anyone tell you they're not in the whole statistical charts that they made. The whole thing is a rigged deal. They got rid of the guy that because he didn't want to do the numbers the way they wanted to and they put their own numbers out. They said it's the best in 20 years.

No, it's the worst in 20 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, I believe what President Trump was talking about, there was a report in the local NBC in D.C. about a D.C. police commander who was suspended in May of this year after the police union alleged that he was manipulating data to make it appear that violent crime in his area of the city, which I think was like the Adams Morgan area, had fallen more than it actually had. Liberals, Democrats often are suspicious of police numbers but it's interesting because in this instance they are citing them. Do you know what I mean?

JOHN AVLON, AUTHOR, "LINCOLN AND THE FIGHT FOR PEACE": Well, I mean, it's important we have a fact based debate.

TAPPER: Right.

AVLON: And I'm a tough on crime guy, you know, worked for Rudy Giuliani back when he was mayor. But this is something very different, right? First of all, the idea that he's calling out the importance of a number, someone should, you know, have him call the Bureau of Labor Statistics where he just can someone for telling the truth. You want to pass tough on crime bill, pass a tough on crime bill. Give cities more resources to combat crime.

But don't just go ahead and try to normalize abusing federal troops in U.S. cities, and that's the slippery slope we're on right now.

TAPPER: Well, what about that idea? What about the idea that this is if even if one supports this effort, it's a band aid, right? It's not like hiring 500 additional cops in D.C.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And I think they do have a staffing shortage in the D.C. Police Department. They need to fix that. I don't know what's authoritarian about putting some extra eyes and ears on the street, getting criminals off the street to keep people from being murdered and carjacked. Nobody in their right mind believes Washington D.C. is safe. And to say the president is trying to help us keep people from getting murdered and carjacked and we have to stop this authoritarian push, I mean, it's just sort of ridiculous rhetoric.

These Democrats don't know what to do with themselves. Every time Donald Trump tries to do something, they reflexively feel the need to oppose it without thinking through the political implications for themselves.

TAPPER: You think Democrats are taking the bait?

JENNINGS: Well, I think they're acting like idiots here. The city is crime ridden. I saw a guy get murdered in Union Station in February at 4:00 in the afternoon.

TAPPER: Murdered? You got --

JENNINGS: I saw the body hit the floor at the bottom of the escalator on the second floor. And so everybody who visits there, everybody who lives there knows it's a serious problem. You have extra eyes and ears. They've arrested criminals. They're getting illegal guns off the street.

[17:25:13]

People feel safer. Tourists feel safer. What is the problem?

TAPPER: Margaret?

HOOVER: I mean, the problem is, look, it's a series -- there's -- you and I both know it's not that Washington and sending National Guard troops into Washington is legally permissible and it would be completely different if he had sent troops into New York City, for example. And the issue is that he's normalizing this for American eyes and ears. And making it seem like, oh, look, there's a crime problem, we'll just send the military. Because there is a slippery slope problem, Scott. You and I both know that.

I mean, we come from a conservative pedigree that really respects checks and balances, that respects the military's lane and civil society's and police's lane. And there are ways to secure a city. You and I both know that. Like we all watched Rudy Giuliani turn a city around.

JENNINGS: Yes. It would be amazing if someone could do it.

HOOVER: It would be great.

JENNINGS: All these things in America -- HOOVER: I agree. They can't -- they can't get it right in Chicago,

they can't get it right --

AVLON: (Inaudible) decline in the United States except for Donald Trump's first term.

HOOVER: Well, but, no, no, but like the urban policies in many of these cities have been failing. But the answer isn't to send the military in. You send the military in, you think that's normal? We're going to have a lot of problems down there.

TAPPER: So everyone stick around, I want to get you guys take in the next block, too. We're going to talk about Trump's surprise announcement at the Kennedy Center today and the past unflattering comments about the president from one of the soon to be honorees, and that is Gene Simmons, the bassist of Kiss. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:44]

TAPPER: Our Pop Culture Lead now, President Trump today returned to the John F. Kennedy Center for -- for the Performing Arts, the Kennedy Center, to announce this year's honorees. This is the very first group of honorees since he took over the center's board in his subsequent election as chairman back in February, chairman of the Kennedy Center.

The honorees are George Strait, and Michael Crawford, and Sylvester Stallone, and Gloria Gaynor, and of course, the band, Kiss. The President also dropped this little tidbit about plans for the actual ceremony in December.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's going to be a big evening. I've been asked to host. I said, I'm the President of the United States. Are you fools asking me to do that? Sir, you'll get much higher ratings. I said, I don't care. I'm President of the United States. I won't do it. They said, please. And then Susie Wiles said to me, sir, I'd like you to host. I said, OK, Susie, I'll do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Sir. Sir, please host the Kennedy Center. The panel's back. Today, President Trump said he actually personally approved each of the nominees for the awards. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How involved were you in the selection process of these honorees? I would say I was about 98 percent involved. No, they all went through me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Scott, this guy's got a lot on his plate. JENNINGS: Yes.

TAPPER: He's approving Kennedy Center awardees now?

JENNINGS: Well, he made a good list. I mean he's -- I mean -- this is our entertainment president. This is his world. I'm glad he's hosting it. I think it's pretty cool. I think the list is awesome. I mean, it's something for everybody on here. I thought it was a good set of selections. They ought to have an amazing show. This -- this -- this thing is great. Every year, they pick people. They have an event. It's great for America.

TAPPER: I want to ask you, Ms. Hoover, the rock band, Kiss, is among the honorees. We should note, even though Gene Simmons is -- is fairly famously conservative, he was a big Bush supporter, as I remember, his -- he has been critical of President Trump. In a 2022, so recent interview with "Spin Magazine," Gene Simmons said, I knew him before he entered politics. Look what that gentleman -- look, that gentleman did to this country and the polarization got all the cockroaches to rise to the top. Once upon a time, you were embarrassed to be publicly racist and out there with conspiracy theories. Now it's all out in the open because he allowed it. So is this President Trump being very large of heart or is perhaps the vetting wasn't what -- what it could have been?

HOOVER: Well, I don't -- he did say he was 98 percent involved.

TAPPER: So this quote was, was that this quote?

HOOVER: This might have been like that 2 percent --

TAPPER: "Spin Magazine" been through.

HOOVER: -- that slipped through the cracks.

TAPPER: OK.

HOOVER: And now he has you to thank, Jake Tapper, for maybe causing him to rescind one of the honorees.

TAPPER: You can't rescind Gene Simmons. He's the heart and soul of this.

HOOVER: I mean you can do it, you can do good for ratings. Maybe we'll see.

TAPPER: What do you think?

ALVON: I think Gene Simmons told the truth. And -- and Now we'll see if there's the petty vindictiveness which also characterizes this President. Big fan of "Spin Magazine." Glad to see it backed with a shout out.

TAPPER: Yes.

ALVON: But look, man, I mean, you know, we just got to stop trying to federalize, you know, arts and culture. The Kennedy Center is great, but let's stop trying to mix politicized music as much as it is.

TAPPER: Are you worried at all about the -- the Gene Simmons quote causing any uproar? No.

JENNINGS: I don't give a rat's rear end what most celebrities think about politics. This is a legendary -- this is a legendary rock band.

TAPPER: Oh, yes.

JENNINGS: A lot of people love them. They're a big part of our pop culture going back a long time. They obviously deserve it. So I don't care what Gene Simmons says.

TAPPER: You has al -- you've always wanted to rock and roll all night and party every day.

JENNINGS: No, no. You're acting like it's aspirational. I do this. Literally, right here.

TAPPER: You rock and roll all night and party every day. That is what you do.

JENNINGS: That's pretty much my job.

TAPPER: You are one of the knights in Satan's service, Kiss. All right, guys. Everyone, thanks so much for being here. We really appreciate it.

Coming up, when testing the texts, what happened when a journalist took up a scammer on one of the many spam text messages we all get in our cell phones.

[17:34:49]

But first, Paul Whelan, the former prisoner of Russia, in his very first interview on The Lead after spending more than five years in a Russian prison. We're going to talk to him about what he makes of Trump trying to make a deal with Vladimir Putin. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Back with our World Lead and the million dollar question, will President Trump and Russian leader Vladimir Putin attempt to redraw Ukraine's borders when they meet Friday in this major summit in Anchorage, Alaska? European leaders say that President Trump told him he would not negotiate Ukrainian territory with Putin by himself. But Monday, Trump said himself there would be some, quote, land swapping.

Joining us now to discuss this Paul Whelan in his first time on The Lead since his release from a Russian prison just over a year ago. Today, Whelan stepped foot back on American soil after five and a half years wrongfully detained in Russia on trumped up espionage charges. An official U.S. State Department designation, wrongfully detained.

[17:40:05] Paul, it's so great to see you free. Please send our love to your siblings who would be frequent guests on the show. But what is your take on the Trump-Putin summit?

PAUL WHELAN, U.S. CITIZEN WRONGFULLY DETAINED IN RUSSIA: It's a fool's errand. President Trump is trying to make a deal with the devil. You saw how he held Evan Gershkovich, Alsu Kurmasheva, Trevor Reed and I, Brittney Griner as well, on trumped up charges. For what? So he could gain something from the United States.

He's doing the same thing now. He wants President Trump to go on bended knee to ask for a ceasefire and ask for the war to end, but he won't give anything up. Putin will not give up territory, and he probably will ask for more. It's a precarious situation. I don't think it ends well.

TAPPER: You spoke with our CNN colleague, Jennifer Hansler, about your work with the Levinson Act. The Levinson Act provides care to returning hostages, such as yourself. You've been working with congressional Democrats from Michigan, such as Congresswomen Haley Stevens and Debbie Dingell, to fund the part of the legislation that provides medical and psychological and dental care to returning hostages. What have you heard from the Trump administration about the Levinson Act?

WHELAN: Nothing. I'm trying to meet with Secretary Rubio now so we can discuss, make sure that he understands what the issue is. It shouldn't be me asking Congress to fund this bill. It should be the State Department asking Congress to fund the -- the law. It shouldn't be up to hostages to ask for benefits. The benefits are in the law. The State Department should provide them.

So I'd like to get in front of the secretary so that we can discuss the situation, make sure he understands what's happening and not happening, and then see about providing these benefits, which are supposed to be provided for a five-year period to every hostage that's come home and those that will come home in the future.

TAPPER: Viewers of the show have heard from your sister, Elizabeth, and your brother, David, many times on the show. Talk to us about how your family has helped you through this difficult period of re- acclimating to life in the United States. And what was it like seeing them fight on your behalf while you were in prison, if -- if you were able to see that?

WHELAN: Oh, I did. And I heard from people all over the world, including our government, the British, Canadian and Irish governments, about their activities. You know, I was proud of them. I'm proud of my parents for putting up with all of this garbage. It was pure nonsense on the behalf of the Russians. They made up a story because they wanted something from the United States.

And I was a pawn, a political prisoner for, you know, five years, seven months, five days. My parents did a lot. They supported me and also other prisoners in my camp by sending food and supplies, medical equipment, medical supplies, things like that, even medications. They'd go from Amazon through the diplomatic pouch to Moscow to me at the prison. You know, while my -- my brother and sister were on T.V. and -- and beating up Congress and beating up the White House to get them to do something to bring me home, you know, my parents were in the background doing a lot. And the -- the people in Manchester, Michigan, our community, they were doing a lot to support my parents as well.

But I give credit to my parents. They lived through World War II in England, emigrated to Canada, then the United States. They had a nice, quiet life. And then this is what Putin does. So yes, my parents, they -- they went through a lot as children and -- and they went through a lot when I was locked up. And, you know, great credit to them.

TAPPER: You told Anderson Cooper back in December that two moments stood out to you as -- as your lowest points in Russian captivity. One, in 2022 when WNBA star Brittney Griner got swapped for Russian arms dealer, Viktor Bout, and -- and you were left behind. And then second, when you learned that your -- your dog passed away. Tell us what kept you hopeful during your time in prison, because I cannot imagine anything bleaker than being wrongly imprisoned in Russia.

WHELAN: Yes, the conditions are pretty bad. Outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg, Russia is a third and fourth world country. It is -- it is really bad. Too bad to discuss on air. But, you know, I had traveled the world. We'd had golden retrievers for decades. And whenever I came home from wherever I was traveling, my dog would be there. And I expected when I came home from Russia that my dog would be there.

My parents did everything they could to -- to keep her alive. She was over 15 years old and, you know, she was just -- she was just at the end. But while I was able to call home, you know, she would hear over the phone my voice and she'd walk over to the phone, stand by the phone wagging her tail. So she always remembered me and knew who I was.

[17:45:07]

You know, we had -- we had some friends and people from the State Department over at the house, you know, while I was locked up and we would have these phone calls and my dog would walk over to the phone and they were amazed that, you know, even after all those years, my dog still remembered me. But that was a low point. My -- my cat, Moppet, died as well.

And, you know, speaking about the trade with -- with Brittney, you know, you have to keep in mind that in the background, Russia had changed the goalposts and they had wanted to trade Krasikov, the FSB assassin for me. So while we were trying to do a -- a trade one way, they wanted to trade a different way, so. Yes. It -- it -- it was terrible to be left behind for a second time, but there was a lot happening and a lot of that was being handled by Secretary Blinken and -- and Jake Sullivan, you know, Roger Carstens, SPEHA, and also Director Bill Burns, who people don't really hear too much about.

But these are the guys that brokered the deal that got me home. So I tend to look at the endgame, me walking off the plane at Andrews and try to put all the rest behind me.

TAPPER: We're so glad that you're out. Paul Whelan, thank you so much.

WHELAN: Thanks very much for having me.

TAPPER: Have you ever gotten one of those spammy texts from a so- called recruiter saying that you're perfect for this new job? Well, you're not alone. One reporter answered the text, actually got the job, and then says things got weird quick. He joins us next.

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[17:50:46]

TAPPER: We have some breaking news in National Lead emergency crews are on the scene of a rollover crash involving a school bus in Travis County, Texas. CNN affiliate KVUE reports that multiple people are injured, 15 have been taken to the hospital, 42 children and one adult were on the bus at the time of the crash, according to Austin-Travis County Emergency Services. We'll bring you more news about that horrible accident as we get it.

In our Tech Lead right now, mine, been blowing up with spammy texts from so-called job recruiters. If not, consider yourself lucky. They -- they go something like this. Here's a sampling from my staff. Hello, my name is Wendy and I'm a recruiter from Indeed. Some include flattery, such as your resume has been recommended by many online recruitment companies. Others promise a great schedule and pay. The daily salary is $100 to $300 and you can work 60 to 90 minutes a day at your favorite time and place.

Joining us now is Alexander Sammon. He's a futures writer for the great website slate.com. And Alexander, you actually responded to one of these texts and you got the job. And you write, quote, soon I met someone named Cathy. And so began a saga that went deeper and got much weirder than I ever imagined. So tell us more about this. What you met with this person?

ALEXANDER SAMMON, FEATURES WRITER, SLATE: We never met in person, but she was a real person, which that alone was a surprise to me. I texted willingly, signed myself up for this great remote work and she shot me a message on WhatsApp. I thought probably this was automated. It was like a phishing scam. But then eventually she did reach out. She left me voice notes. She called my phone. We -- we spoke and, you know, we had actually many weeks of -- of intimate and extended conversation.

TAPPER: And what -- what did -- did she want you to give your bank account information? Like what was she after? What was she seeking?

SAMMON: Yes, I was trying to figure that out too for a while. I thought what does this scam actually look like? I thought at first, yes, you know, personal information, bank information.

TAPPER: Right.

SAMMON: It turned out there was a job for me and there was work to be done. And in the end, what they wanted was Bitcoin and small payments. But it took a while for us to get there.

TAPPER: They wanted to give you Bitcoin or they wanted you to give them Bitcoin?

SAMMON: No, they wanted me to give them Bitcoin. So, you know, it was -- it was an exchange. I would give them Bitcoin and then eventually they were going to make me whole with a -- with a payment that was beyond my wildest imagination.

TAPPER: So you write, quote, Trump has taken a battle axe to the very departments that once existed to do scam prevention and enforcement like, for instance, the FTC that's the Federal Trade Commission, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the Securities and Exchange Commission and parts of the Department of Justice.

So do you think that the increased prevalence on our phones of this stuff is a direct result of Trump kind of like easing the pedal off the gas when it comes to enforcement against it?

SAMMON: Yes, I think it's a confluence of things. I think there's like a technological component to this, obviously the rise of cryptocurrency, you know, A.I. tools, all this stuff, but also like the enforcement mechanisms have -- have been totally wiped out, right? Like, those departments you mentioned, basically all the guardrails on this stuff has been done away with by the current administration. And so, you know, the -- the downside of running a scam doesn't really exist anymore and, you know, might as well give it a shot.

TAPPER: That's interesting. So it took only a few minutes for what the producer doing the segment to compile some of these ones that I read at the -- at the top. And I -- I honestly get like five or six a day.

SAMMON: Yes.

TAPPER: And then, but you can report them as junk. It says report as junk.

SAMMON: Yes.

TAPPER: Does that actually do anything?

SAMMON: I -- I don't know. I think it's sort of like whack-a-mole. It's probably worth the attempt. Obviously, that's my reflex too. And the one that I did eventually respond to, I was, you know, dreading the outcome. Once you respond to one, you know, you'd think that they come in droves and it seems to be the case that they come in droves either way. But yes, I think it's worth -- worth a try.

TAPPER: All right. Features writer for Slate, Alexander Sammon. Thanks so much. Great stuff. Really interesting story. We're going to keep a close watch on this.

The brand new countdown on Taylor Swift's website, might she have another big project to make public after announcing plans for a new album this week?

[17:54:39]

But first, the countdown to Friday. A little bit more consequential, potentially, the Trump-Putin summit. What's the tone in Russia ahead of this meeting? CNN has a team in Moscow, of course, and we're going to go there next live. Stay with us.

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TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, President Trump is promising, quote, severe consequences if Vladimir Putin does not promise to end the war against Ukraine during his summit in Alaska. What might those consequences look like? And what else is the President saying about another potential meeting, this one with Putin and Volodymyr Zelenskyy of Ukraine?

Plus, the White House says to expect a, quote, significantly higher National Guard presence on the streets of Washington, D.C. tonight as President Trump's takeover of Washington's law enforcement take shape. But what exactly will that look like for residents and for tourists? And might he target other cities next?

Also, as we wait for a judge's ruling on whether we'll see any grand jury transcripts in the Jeffrey Epstein case, an attorney who has represented nearly 20 of Epstein's many victims joins me live, ahead.

[17:59:52]

And are you ready for it? We're just minutes away from the release of Taylor Swift's podcast with her boyfriend Travis Kelce and his brother, the Super Bowl champion Philadelphia Eagle, Jason Kelce. Are we finally going to get more details on her upcoming album, a release date, a single perhaps? What -- what --