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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Jamaica Prepares For Approaching Hurricane Melissa; President Trump To Meet With Japan's Prime Minister, Ahead Of Pivotal Meeting with Xi Jinping; President Trump Criticizes President Putin On Testing New Missile; Ontario Premier Doug Ford Defends Anti-Tariff Ad That Irked President Trump; Rep. Mike Lawler (R-NY), Is Interviewed About Lawmakers Stare Down SNAP Benefit Deadline As Shutdown Drags On; Newsom Says He'll Consider White House Run After Midterms; Arizonans Frustrated Waiting For New Rep. To Be Seated. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 27, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

KASIE HUNT, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT & ANCHOR: And if you at home missed any of today's show, don't forget you can always catch up by listening to "The Arena's" podcast. The QR code is right there. Just scan it, follow along wherever you get our podcast. You can also follow the show on X and Instagram. We are @TheArenaCNN. Jake Tapper is standing by for "The Lead." And Jake, we have 15 seconds to talk about the Eagles on Sunday --

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Triumphant. Triumphant and we didn't even have AJ Brown so it's very exciting. Thanks so much, Kasie.

HUNT: Very exciting.

TAPPER: We'll see you in "The Arena" next time.

HUNT: Have a great show.

TAPPER: Welcome to "The Lead," I'm Jake Tapper. We begin with major breaking news in our "World Lead." The National Weather Service has just issued an update for the Caribbean as Jamaica races for a monster Category 5 Hurricane Melissa make landfall, expected to be the strongest to ever hit the island of Jamaica. In fact, it's the strongest storm on earth this year. And it's one of the strongest storms on record in the Atlantic. You're looking at live pictures from Jamaica.

Authorities are urging mass evacuations and warnings many communities will not survive this flooding with destructive winds up to 175 miles per hour and storm surge peaking between 9 and 13 feet. We're talking catastrophic and life-threatening flash floods, landslides, long- lasting power and communications outages, and communities being completely cut off from the world. The storm is so strong it even caused a hurricane hunter research plane to make the rare decision to abort its mission. An official telling CNN that the plane and the crew were beat up bad.

We have live team coverage. CNN's Derek Van Dam is on the ground in Kingston, Jamaica and meteorologist Chris Warren is in the CNN Hurricane Center. Chris, the National Weather Service just released a major update. What is the latest?

CHRIS WARREN, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, the latest, it is still a Category 5, 175 mile per hour hurricane, but Jake, the subtle aspect to this, the subtle change is significant. It is moving northwest at three miles an hour. It was west northwest, so showing signs that it's starting to do a little bit more of a turn and heading toward Jamaica, which is not too far off. Here is Jamaica and this right in here, right around the eye. That is the most dangerous part of this hurricane. That's the part with a 175 mile per hour force winds, hurricane force winds.

Still, as it slowly -- three miles an hour -- slowly making its way toward Jamaica, it will come on shore as a five or a four. The impacts are the same with the five and a four, catastrophic. Also catastrophic flooding because of the immense amount of rainfall that will come with this very slow moving system, and the terrain here in Jamaica gets that much more rain out of it.

Just to show you how slow this is moving. This is where the hurricane force winds are, the tropical storm force out here, 6:00 this evening, midnight. This is potentially flooding rain with mudslides, landslides. Now going into the morning hours, still hasn't made landfall. Overnight tonight, not a lot of sleeping, but a lot of praying going on. It's not going to be until after lunch where we're seeing it finally leave. It's not going to be until tomorrow night, about 24 hours from now, Jake, before this finally moves away from Jamaica. This is a disaster in the making.

TAPPER: Terrifying. Now to Derek Van Dam in Jamaica's capital. What are conditions like right now in Kingston, Derek?

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yeah, Jake, you can see it's raining, the breeze is picking up across the region, but that subtle shift, west that Chris was just mentioning is very critical because now Kingston, population about a million, very vulnerable, out of that cone, the most catastrophic winds look to spare the capital city of Jamaica, but we all know it's the flash flood, the landslide, and the mudslide threat that is at greatest risk here with 40 inches of rain potentially falling within the mountains that surround the city, it will funnel into the communities below.

I just came back from the Prime Minister's offices and we had an interview with him a moment ago. He told me about how his government is preparing for this monster storm. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW HOLNESS, JAMAICAN PRIME MINISTER: I don't believe there is any infrastructure within this region that could withstand a Category 5 storm. So there could be significant dislocation. So, every Jamaican I believe understands how this threat is severe. So evacuations, taking higher ground, protecting your property, keeping your family safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP) VAN DAM: It's the long duration of this event that will be so dangerous, people won't have the opportunity to go outside and assess the storm because it will be potentially 24 hours of hurricane force winds or greater. This is going to be one for the record books, Jake.

[17:05:03]

TAPPER: Yeah, Derek Van Dam in Kingston, Jamaica on the southeastern part of the island of Jamaica. It's going to get a lot of the storm right headed bang into it and, of course, Warren as well. Appreciate it. As the crow flies, Jamaica is about 485 miles southeast of Key West, Florida, the southernmost point of the continental U.S. The island is about 4,400 square miles. It's the third largest in the Caribbean. It's home to about 2.8 million people. Joining us now is Dana Morris Dixon. She's the Jamaican Minister of Information.

Thanks for joining us. So the Jamaican government is anticipating that close to 50,000 people will be relocated, either moving to safe grounds or to shelters. But as of earlier this afternoon, officials said only 76 of the 800 shelters have seen any activity at all. Are you afraid that not enough Jamaicans are heeding the evacuation warnings?

DANA MORRIS DIXON, JAMAICAN MINISTER OF EDUCATION, SKILLS, YOUTH & INFORMATION: Thank you, Jake. That's really a concern that we have. We have activated 881 shelters in Jamaica and we are ready. We have food there. We pre-position the food there. We have our personnel there. We have also members of our hospital teams, they are there. And so we're ready for those who need to move to the shelters. The key point we're making to all Jamaicans is that they need to move now when they can.

When the hurricane gets closer to Jamaica, which it will overnight, we will not be able to help and do the evacuation. So we have our buses going into the areas to take them out and the shelters are ready. So it is a concern of ours. That's why we've been communicating, communicating, communicating with a lot of press briefings and getting the word out on television, on radio, on social media to ensure that Jamaicans understand the severity of this storm.

We have never seen anything like this in Jamaica. And so we have to have everyone prepared and listen to the fact that this is going to be catastrophic.

TAPPER: Yeah. So, anyone watching CNN right now in Jamaica and we air internationally, which Jamaicans need to go to a shelter? Everyone? Just people on the southern part of the island? Who specifically are you telling to go to a shelter?

DIXON: Let me tell you, and Jamaicans love CNN, so they're always watching CNN. So I'm glad that you've called me. And so what we really need is for Jamaicans who are along the coast, especially the Southern coast. We are already seeing storm surges and those storm surges are going to accelerate as the storm gets closer. So we're asking those along the coast to move to shelter inland.

We are also asking those who are in flood prone areas, The estimates of rainfall that we're seeing is so high, we've never seen those numbers in Jamaica. So there is going to be flooding. So we ask those, if you know you're in a flood prone area, you need to move to a shelter. And then for those who are on the mountains, Jamaica is beautiful. It has lots of mountains, but there are going to be landslides with all of this rain. And so if you know you are in one of those areas, we urge you to go to a shelter.

TAPPER: And it's not too late to evacuate. It's okay right now for them to go is what you're saying.

DIXON: It is okay right now as you have seen in your weather report. There is rain. There is some wind, but you can move now. Do not wait until nightfall. Overnight, the conditions will get worse, that's what our weather teams are telling us. And into tomorrow, it will get even more -- we'll have more terrible conditions. And so we have to get people moving today into this evening as quickly as possible.

TAPPER: All right, to all my Jamaican brothers and sisters, you just heard the Minister of Information, Dana Morris Dixon. Please heed what she says. Thank you so much, Minister Dixon. We appreciate it.

DIXON: Thank you. Thank you so much.

TAPPER: We're staying in the "World Lead." President Trump is in Tokyo and just hours away from a major meeting with Japan's prime minister. Japan's first female prime minister for that matter. How he's making headlines about another world leader who might get added to this trip's agenda.

Plus, new comments just in from California's Democratic governor Gavin Newsom. He just spoke with CNN. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:10:00]

TAPPER: Our "World Lead" takes us to Tokyo where President Trump will meet with Japan's brand new Prime Minister in just a few hours. Part of his multi-stop diplomatic swing through Asia. He has already stopped in Malaysia. He's in Japan now. Then he plans to go to South Korea. The President's last stop includes a highly anticipated meeting with Chinese leader Xi Jinping after the U.S. and China came to an initial framework for a trade agreement that could impact everything from soybean farmers in the Midwest to your next iPhone, to the TikTok app that you enjoy so much on that iPhone.

Current U.S. tariffs on China started 30 percent, but some go higher, making the effective overall tariff rate 57 percent right now. CNN's senior White House correspondent, Kristen Holmes, is in Tokyo with the president. Kristen, President Trump already made news earlier with another leader, North Korea's Kim Jong-un.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that's right, Jake. I mean, he flirted once again with this idea of potentially meeting with the North Korean leader, but he actually took it a step further this time, saying that he'd be willing to extend his Asia trip if it meant that he could have this meeting. He said he'd love to meet with him, that he hadn't mentioned it, but he'd like to see him. And then he went on to say that he would love to see him. And while nothing is scheduled, we should keep in mind that the last time the two met during President Trump's first term, there were a lot of impromptu elements, so it's not something to completely rule out.

TAPPER: And, Kristen, Trump also responded to Russian leader Vladimir Putin announcing what he says was a successful test of its nuclear- powered cruise missile, a missile powered by nuclear power. Tell us about that.

[17:15:07]

HOLMES: Yeah, and President Trump tried to wave that off. He said that Putin should be more focused on ending the war than launching missiles. Just take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They know we have a nuclear submarine, the greatest in the world right off their shores. So, I mean, doesn't have to go 8,000 miles and they're not playing games with us. We're not playing games with them either. We test missiles all the time, but you know, we do have a submarine, a nuclear submarine. I don't think it's an appropriate thing to Putin -- for Putin to be saying by the way. You ought to get the war ended, a war that should have taken one week, is now on its soon fourth year. That's what you ought to do instead of testing missiles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Yeah. I mean, and Jake, one thing that shouldn't be lost here is the timing of this Putin announcement. It comes as that summit, the second summit between Trump and Putin, completely fell apart. It comes at the same time that the U.S. sanctioned two of Russia's largest oil companies, and the tensions are incredibly high. So, you know, you hear President Trump there waving it off, but of course it's something that they're watching carefully. President Trump says they're not playing games, we're not playing games. We are seeing what appears to be an escalation on both sides.

TAPPER: All right, Kristen Holmes in Tokyo, thanks so much. Coming up next, we're going to speak with the head of Ontario, Canada about Ontario's TV ad that so irked President Trump he imposed new tariffs on Canada.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:20:00]

TAPPER: And we're back with more in our "World Lead." While President Trump makes progress on trade in Asia, he is currently icing out America's neighbor to the north, announcing an additional 10 percent tariff on Canada, apparently irked by a TV ad paid for by the Canadian province of Ontario, an ad that ran on U.S. TV networks, an ad that used parts of an anti-tariff speech by former President Ronald Reagan in 1987.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: High tariffs inevitably lead to retaliation by foreign countries and the triggering of fierce trade wars. Then the worst happens. Markets shrink and collapse, businesses and industries shut down, and millions of people lose their jobs. America's jobs and growth are at stake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That TV ad ran over the weekend, including during the World Series, and joining us now is the Premier of Ontario, Doug Ford. Thank you so much for joining us, sir. So, you said this morning that this was, quote, "the most successful ad in the history of North America." Is the additional 10 percent tariff on Canadians also part of that success?

DOUG FORD, ONTARIO PREMIER: Well, first of all, Jake, thanks for having me on. I start off every interview in saying that Canadians love Americans. I love America. I love Americans. I've lived there for 20 years. And my intention was to bring this to the American people and tell them that tariffs, protectionism does not work. Ronald Reagan was a free trader, the greatest president in my opinion ever, and we wanted to get the message out. And, yeah, did the message get out? One hundred percent.

It had 11.4 billion, with a B, impressions. We talked in the media, but views around the world. And again, we just want to make sure that we work side by side with our closest friends and allies. A tariff on Canada is a tax on Americans. President Trump ran on creating more jobs. We've seen five consecutive months. Manufacturing jobs are down. We've seen inflation go up. That's not what President Trump ran on. And we want to be the solution. And the way we get back on track, is sign a deal with your largest number one customer in the world and that's Canada.

TAPPER: CNN's news gathering partner, CBC, reports that your anti- Trump rhetoric, your criticism of Trump, came up repeatedly during trade negotiations. Was that intentional at all being the bad cop?

FORD: Well, you know, I've never said anything personal about President Trump in our ad. It was very ironic that President Trump saw it and he said, yeah, that was a good ad. If I was a candidate, I'd run the same ad. And then all of a sudden, he wakes up in the morning, someone whispers something in his ear, and now he's not happy. But it was an ad to inform the people in the U.S. and mission accomplished.

TAPPER: After you spoke with your Prime Minister, Mark Carney, you paused the campaign effective today, so the trade talks could resume. Did Carney demand that you do that?

FORD: No, he doesn't demand anything off me. I have a job to protect the largest economy in Canada, the engine of Canada, 16 and a half million people, and that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm protecting the steel jobs, the auto jobs, the life science jobs, the manufacturing jobs. That's my duty as the Premier of Ontario.

TAPPER: Canada's unemployment rate, as I'm sure I don't need to tell you, is now at its highest point in nine years. Do you have any regrets about stirring the pot, possibly making things harder on your fellow Canadians due to this retaliation from President Trump?

[17:24:56]

FORD: No, I don't believe so. The person that started this whole thing around the world, not just with Canada, is President Trump. And the American people are finally feeling the effects of tariffs, and it's going to continue. The more tariffs, is more of attacks on Americans and less jobs for America. If anyone reads into many, many speeches Ronald Reagan did, after the free trade agreement with Canada with former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney, which is no longer with us. He was one of my mentors, and he created more jobs, not only in Canada, but also in the U.S. than we've ever seen.

Again, protectionism does not work. We want to create more jobs in the U.S., more jobs in Canada. I believe in the Am-Can Fortress, which is the American Canadian Fortress, and let's be the wealthiest, richest, safest two countries in the entire world. We have so much to offer, the Americans, that we give them. Matter of its our oil or uranium or our potash that keeps your agriculture sector or nickel, high-grade nickel from Ontario. And the auto sector, they're losing billions of dollars every year now because of these tariffs.

TAPPER: Ontario Premier Doug Ford, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it, sir.

FORD: Thank you. Oh, thanks so much, Jake and God bless America, God bless Canada. Thank you.

TAPPER: Here in Washington, D.C., the capital of America, this is day 27 of the federal government shutdown. Most federal workers are not getting paid. Sick calls from essential workers are causing disruptions. And now funding for what most people called food stamps is set to be cut off in a matter of days. Is anyone ready to make a deal? Why won't the Trump administration use a contingency fund to keep food stamps going, at the very least? We're going to go inside these conversations next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:31:02]

TAPPER: In our Money Lead today, 42 million low income Americans are likely to miss out on critical food assistance next month because of this federal government shutdown now on day 27. The U.S. Department of Agriculture announced this weekend that they will not tap into their six billion dollar contingency fund to cover food stamp benefits that will expire this Saturday. This ramps up the pressure, obviously on Congress and specifically Senate Democrats to bring this to an end.

Joining us now, New York Republican Congressman Mike Lawler. Congressman, Governor Kathy Hochul announced today that she's fast tracking $30 million in emergency food assistance funds to help with the expiring SNAP or food stamp benefits in New York. Nearly 15 percent of your state relied on that program in 2024, according to the Agriculture Department. Do you agree with the Trump administration's move to not dip into the $6 billion contingency fund to pay for SNAP benefits?

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Well, look, I think the administration should avail itself of every option to ensure that these programs are funded. And if they can, they should tap into that emergency fund. But Jake, here's the fundamental point. This could all be over today if Democrats like Chuck Schumer would just vote to open the government up.

The Clean Continuing Resolution has been sitting in the United States Senate for over a month. So Kathy Hochul and other New York Democrats should be demanding Chuck Schumer do his job and open up the government and then there's no need for any of this. There wouldn't even be a question about whether or not you need to tap into an emergency fund because the authorizations are would be there because the C.R. includes that.

There would be no need for Kathy Hochul to tap into $30 million because the government would be open, the federal government would be able to provide all of these critical services. So to me, this game that Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer have been engaged in for the last month needs to come to an end. They need to vote to pass the clean C.R. and open the government back up so that all of these programs are funded and we don't have to deal with this nonsense.

TAPPER: So as you know, the Democrats are doing this, they say, because Obamacare premiums are set to expire at the end of the year and this is their only moment of leverage to get attention to this issue and maybe even get some Republican votes on this issue. Do you -- would you be willing to vote for these Obamacare premiums to not expire, to be extended, for the government shutdown to end?

LAWLER: Well, you know, Jake, I've been a co-sponsor on legislation since the beginning of September when we introduced it, Jen Kiggans, my colleague from Virginia, a number of my Republican colleagues to extend the ACA enhanced premium tax credit by a year. And in fact, just two weeks ago, I was in Washington and I asked Leader Jeffries to sign on to that bill to join us in this effort to extend the ACA subsidies to ensure that we don't have a situation where health care premiums spike on the American people. And he refused to do so.

Because the reality, Jake, is this was never about health care. This was always about appeasing a far left base to show them that they were fighting back against President Trump. You know, Katherine Clark saying that this is about leverage, as you just alluded to. It's wrong, fundamentally wrong to hold the American people hostage, to put our troops in jeopardy, our Border patrol agents, our air traffic controllers, those Americans who rely on critical programs like WIC and SNAP, as we talked about earlier.

So to me, this is fundamental. Open up the government and then let's get to work to make sure that we pass legislation that would actually extend the subsidy. But we also have to look, Jake, at long term, that is a short term fix for a long term problem. The fact is that since the Affordable Care act took effect, premiums have skyrocketed. And the only way to make them affordable, quote, unquote, is with subsidies.

[17:35:16]

And so what we're talking about here is the federal government either picking up 78 percent of the premium or 88 percent of the premium with the enhanced tax credit. It it's still not making it affordable. That's something we have to address long term. There's a lot of ways that we can work in a bipartisan way to address health care costs in America.

We should get about that work today. But we got to open up the government. So there's a very simple way to do it. Chuck Schumer should pass the clean CR that's been sitting on the Senate floor for over a month now. And let's get back to work.

TAPPER: Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York, thanks so much.

CNN's newest anchor, Elex Michaelson, just sat down with Democratic Governor of California Gavin Newsom and pressed him on recent comments that Newsom made suggesting he is considering seriously a presidential run in 2028. Hear what Newsom told CNN, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:40:32]

TAPPER: We're back with the Politics Lead and brand new comments From California's Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom, who just spoke with CNN's newest anchor, Elex Michaelson, for his brand new show which is called "The Story Is" and it debuts tonight only here on CNN. Elex, congratulations on the new show. Welcome to CNN as I've told you before. So you asked Governor Newsom, your governor, about his 2028 presidential ambitions. What did he have to say?

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR, "THE STORY IS WITH ELEX MICHAELSON": Well, for many years he has said over and over again that he had absolutely no interest. That started to change in the last few days when he said, actually maybe after 2026, I'll look at it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): People talk about it and you'd be lying if it hasn't -- you haven't thought about or processed it. But that said, quite literally, I'm making the case. That's why I have this initiative, Prop 50. There may not be a 2028 election that's fee -- free and fair. So my focus is central to getting over the hump in November 4th of this year and then working on 2026 in the midterm reelections.

But look, when people, particularly people that have run before, et cetera, everybody knows the politician, the response, the kabuki. Well, I'm just focusing on my day job and we'll see where things go. So I tried to be a little more honest about it and people ran with it.

MICHAELSON: But -- but to that point, for many years you've said to me and several other people that you had subzero interest in running.

NEWSOM: Yes.

MICHAELSON: And that how many ways can I say no?

NEWSOM: Yes.

MICHAELSON: So has something changed?

NEWSOM: Yes. Everything's changed. Everything changed. And here in L.A., you were part of it. You saw with the federalization of the National Guard, I just think we're on the other side of something radically different, not marginally different. Everything has changed in terms of my mindset, my focus, my energy, my perspective on the world we're living in, Trump and Trumpism, what he represents and how serious and precious this moment is.

So no, from that perspective, legitimately, I've changed. This country is changing and I'm calling it out. And I just feel like we have a responsibility to be a little bit more clear and concise and precise in terms of our efforts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: So the governor says that he won't make a decision on that until after the midterm elections in 2026. Remember, he's termed out office. So he leaves the governor's mansion in January of 2027, which would seem like the time that somebody would start a presidential campaign. But he also talked about doing things like putting out a book, talking about his autobiography, which is something many presidential candidates do. And clearly the moves that he's doing right now is getting him a lot of national attention, Jake.

TAPPER: So Elex, you have this new show. It's called "The Story Is" it starts tonight, it's 9:00 -- it's 9:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. Pacific Time, where you are midnight to 2:00 here in the East Coast. You get two hours to do whatever you want. Like what are some of your thoughts about what are you going to do? Are you going to lean into new -- obviously breaking news? But what about like you're in L.A., the capital of show businesses, are going to be a little bit more show business going on? What -- what are your plans?

MICHAELSON: Well, it's going to be a mix. So we've got clearly going to do politics and breaking news and -- and a lot of the west coast thought leaders on that. But it's an opportunity to have more fun. So we're going to be doing entertainment and technology which is all based here in Silicon Valley and we're going to be doing pop culture stuff. So it's -- it's a mix of a lot of fun, interesting, dynamic people and with a more laid back west coast late night feel. And we're excited to get started and hopefully soon enough we'll have Jake Tapper as a guest.

TAPPER: And absolutely. And I'll tell you, like, it is a great opportunity not just to reach the insomniacs here on the East Coast, but people on the Pacific are really going to appreciate a live show from 9:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. Pacific Time when everybody else is in reruns.

MICHAELSON: Everybody else is in reruns. And so we'll be live. So tonight when the hurricane is happening, we'll be live. When President Trump is going to be with President Xi later in the week, we'll be live. I mean it's an opportunity. There's breaking news happening all the time. So CNN's going to be on it while the other networks are in reruns.

TAPPER: While they're sleeping. While they're sleeping --

MICHAELSON: Yes.

TAPPER: -- you'll be on the case. Elex Michelson, thank you so much. Great to see you. And I'll see you soon.

MICHAELSON: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: And again, "The Story Is" -- I'm sorry, the news -- the show is called "The Story Is with Elex Michaelson." It debuts tonight. It'll air every weeknight, midnight eastern, 9:00 p.m. Pacific only here on CNN. Here in studio is the panel. Honestly, that's -- it's a great idea whoever --

[17:45:02]

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: A wonderful idea.

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I could have saved -- I could have saved him that interview and told him that that guy's going to run for president. That would -- I could have saved that whole thing.

TAPPER: That's not to be saved.

ROCHA: Oh, oh, sorry.

TAPPER: We want to hear it from Newsom.

ROCHA: Oh, my bad.

TAPPER: We want to hear it from Newsom, Chuck.

ROCHA: OK, just making sure, you all do.

TAPPER: Before we get to 2028, we're eight days from this year's Election Day and a year out from the midterms, which means it is also a perfect time to talk about 2028.

ROCHA: Yes, that's right.

TAPPER: So there's a bunch of -- there's going to be no shortage of Democrats running. There's like three generations of Democrats.

ROCHA: I like to call it a battle royale for those of you wrestling fans.

TAPPER: Yes. So here is what former Vice President Kamala Harris told the BBC this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you made a decision yet?

KAMALA HARRIS, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I have not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you say in your book, I'm not done.

HARRIS: That is correct. I am not done. I -- I -- I have lived my entire career, a life of service, and it's in my bones. And there are many ways to serve. I've not decided yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So what are the honest -- just -- OK, you're a consultant, right?

ROCHA: Sure.

TAPPER: What are the honest decisions that Newsom, Harris, others have to make? Like, they're not just going to -- it's not just vibes, right? They have to figure out polling, fundraising, like, how do they make -- how do they get to the decision?

ROCHA: The second piece of that is the most important. I wrote about this in my book, "Tio Bernie," about how early we started the Bernie race. And this was the second time he ran. The first time, it was a shock to all of us. We know we're raising money. It would be a real campaign. Oh, my God. We caught the car, as we say. But it's about the money. And when we get together, we would test message to see if there was an audience to actually raise money in a six, eight, 10 person field, which is what you're getting at here.

It's going to be a lot of people, but there's only so much money, even if a bunch of individuals are giving it. So it's the infrastructure to raise money from individuals. That the big donors will have their Super PACs like they always do. But how much money can you raise from small donors over a long period of time?

TAPPER: Is there any Democrat that you look at and you think this person really could go the distance?

SINGLETON: No.

TAPPER: Really, not?

SINGLETON: Not at all. And to the vice president's chagrin, I think this is really about trying to be relevant. I mean, we've all moved on. We're not thinking about the vice president, with all due respect to the former vice president, we're not really thinking about the former president either. Anytime I do read something about the vice president, with the exception of this book tour, is the fact that the DNC is still paying off debts from a campaign that raised $1 billion. And so, to Chuck's point, I've worked on a number of campaigns, presidential, local, state. What you find is, to your point of that sort of small number of -- of major donors that one can pull from, where can the vice president go, Chuck, to raise money, number one? Number two, what's the constituency?

Now, I know the vice president did fairly well with black women, but numerically speaking, that is not enough to build a coalition to turn out the vote, to see the vice president move up numerically against the eight individuals that Chuck mentioned. And so, to me, I'm not really worried about 2028. And I think, as the president just recently stated, we're looking at J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio. Rubio in particular -- particular, is very attractive, very talented.

TAPPER: He said -- he said that. But he also, in response to the fact that Steve Bannon, his former Svengali, is out there, whether he's trolling or serious, I can't tell. Talking about Trump running for a third term, which is of course, not allowed by the U.S. Constitution. This is what President Trump had to say when asked about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would love to do it. I have my best numbers ever. It's very terrible. I have my best numbers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I mean, fact check. He does not have his best numbers ever. He is underwater. He's a negative 9.5 percent. But he also rejected the idea that he could serve a third term legally by having J.D. Vance run for president, he runs for vice president and then Vance gets into office and resigns and they do a switcheroo. Here's what Trump had to say to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Yes, I wouldn't rule that out because it's too cute. I think the people wouldn't like that. It's too cute. It's not -- it wouldn't be right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So I know you're going to lean into this Vance-Rubio thing, but he's still talking about running for a third term.

SINGLETON: Yes, he's still talking about it because reporters are going to Steve Bannon, and to my knowledge, I don't think Steve Ballon -- Bannon has much of an influence on the policy at the White House, directly or indirectly.

TAPPER: He had a meeting with Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries during to avert this government shutdown. And he, he put Trump 2028 hats on the table. SINGLETON: And -- and -- and Jake, that's a bit of trolling, as we like to say, right? The President answered this the proper way, which is to acknowledge and admit it would be a violation of the Constitution. He can't do it. He went on to pivot by saying, we have two strong candidates being the current vice president, the Secretary of State, who has 50 million jobs.

So not only do we have two attractive candidates, but you have two attractive candidates who can actually get the job done. And again, if you're looking at the other side, my question is a side that's lost among men, a side that's only gained according to their own autopsy report that just came out among white liberals.

And so to me, if I'm looking ahead the next two and a half years, I'm not looking at a rival party that makes me nervous as a strategist. I'm looking at a rival party that's going to be easy to beat.

[17:50:07]

TAPPER: Chuck, I -- I want to get your reaction to something that just caught my eye. A Trump administration's -- the Trump administration's Department of Labor has this new social media campaign using these Norman Rockwell style posters, such as this image of a family in a church with the text a dream worth fighting for.

And there's this collection of images that was post -- that we've -- that we've seen on the Department of Labor's Twitter and Instagram account. It's really, we hurt -- we -- we searched for ones that didn't look like this of white men or white people and we couldn't really -- it -- it's not really a representation of the country's workforce, Chuck. What -- what's going on here?

ROCHA: I think that this is Donald Trump trying to sell in the Murray -- America First idea. Like his ideological value has always been America First. And as a non-college educated working man who grew up in a trailer house in East Texas, who's a Democrat, Shermichael, I'll say that there's more people than me over here. Count me. He is a -- he -- he knows what he's doing when he messages this.

The problem is that folks are starting to understand that they can't understand or believe what he says because he said he wasn't going touch the structure at the White House and now it's tore down. He said he was going to be American First and he gave Argentina $40 billion. He can put up all the nice pictures that he want, but folks are starting to read into it.

TAPPER: We only have a few seconds left, but Trump making huge grounds with black men, with Latino men, et cetera.

SINGLETON: Yes, I actually, my response to this, I would double down on all men across the board. I'd have images of black men. I'd have --

TAPPER: There not.

SINGLETON: But -- but I'm saying, politically speaking, based on the numbers that we saw, the gains we made in November of 2024, I would double down on all men across the board.

TAPPER: That's my point is they're not doing that.

SINGLETON: Because it makes it competitive and difficult for Democrats.

ROCHA: That's exactly why Ruben Gallego would make a great 2028 presidential candidate.

TAPPER: All right, thanks to both.

SINGLETON: Good luck, Chuck.

TAPPER: Appreciate it. Also a veteran.

ROCHA: That's right.

SINGLETON: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: Reason number 999 to be frustrated with Washington and the current dysfunction. Congresswoman-elect Adelita Grijalva, she won her election. Speaker Johnson says she can't be sworn in right now because the government shut down. So how is that sitting with the Arizona voters who elected her? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:56:25]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, it has been more than a month, 34 days to be precise, since Arizona voters elected Adelita Grijalva in a special election to Congress for a seat that had been previously held by her father, Raul Grijalva, who died in March. That but still the congresswoman elect is not officially a congresswoman because she has not yet been sworn in.

Republican House speaker Mike Johnson says she won't be sworn in until the shutdown is over. CNN's Steve Contorno went to Tucson, Arizona to hear from Grijalva's constituents who are frankly waiting for representation in Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN SENIOR REPORTER (voice-over): Voters here elected Democrat Adelita Grijalva over a month ago to replace her late father, but they're still waiting for their voice in Washington.

CONTORNO: What is it like not having a representative at this moment?

DOUG HAYDEN, DEMOCRATIC VOTER: It's frustrating because it's something that should be just a given. And for them to kind of hold us hostage to get what's going on, it's political baloney.

CONTORNO (voice-over): Arizona's 7th district spans 300 miles of desert along the U.S.-Mexico border. It's home to an air force range, a major university, and a large veterans hospital. CONTORNO: It's the middle of the day and we're walking up on what is the Tucson district office, a black ribbon for the late congressman. But the office is closed and actually there's a sign saying to contact the senators instead.

CONTORNO (voice-over): Grijalva says she thinks Republicans are stalling her swearing in because she would be the final House member needed to push for a floor vote to release the Epstein files.

HAYDEN: If Donald is innocent, why wouldn't he want them totally out?

CONTORNO (voice-over): Republican Daniel Butierez lost to Grijalva in the September special election and said he would have also voted to release the files.

DANIEL BUTIEREZ (R), FORMER CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I just think that's just a talking point.

CONTORNO (voice-over): He argued the district hasn't had representation for the past two years, noting the hundreds of votes Grijalva's father missed while undergoing cancer treatment.

BUTIEREZ: The fact is, Grijalva was physically incapable of representing Arizona and he should have stepped down. He didn't. So why didn't anybody care then?

CONTORNO (voice-over): Machine shop owner and Republican voter Jerry Ward said the lack of representation doesn't concern him yet.

JERRY WARD, REPUBLICAN VOTER: We're not going to have much of a voice, I don't think, under Grijalva as a Republican. But, you know, she definitely needs to get her seat. And if she be -- if she's patient, it will happen.

CONTORNO (voice-over): But it's not just about politics. Some say they no longer have access to the help they need.

RACHEL WILSON, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: Here I am paying taxes to the federal government. Not only is it closed, but I don't have a representative either.

CONTORNO (voice-over): Rachel Wilson is an immigration attorney who typically contacts the congressional office weekly for federal assistance. We listened as she tried calling the local district office.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, this is --

CONTORNO (voice-over): It went to voicemail. She then called the D.C. Office.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please call our Tucson office.

WILSON: Call the Tucson office.

CONTORNO: We just tried calling the Tucson office. WILSON: Yes, yes. And the thing is, I mean, we can -- our senators are helpful as well, but they don't know our district like the Grijalva's do.

CONTORNO (voice-over): Grijalva has an office in Washington, but she says she lacks resources to help constituents back home. Only in recent days does she get a government e-mail instead relying on less secure technology.

REP. ADELITA GRIJALVA (D-AZ), REPRESENTATIVE-ELECT: We're using texts and signal and Google Chat.

CONTORNO (voice-over): Speaker Mike Johnson says he'll swear her in when the House comes back in session and reopens the government. Until then, she can't vote and she says she needs to be escorted around certain parts of Capitol Hill.

[18:00:02]

GRIJALVA: I am basically a tourist with an office in D.C.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CONTORNO: The Democratic attorney General of Arizona has sued to force the House to seek Grijalva. But Speaker Mike Johnson says the state has no jurisdiction in Congress and quote, rerun the House. Back to you.