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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Trump Says He Will Sign Bill to Release Epstein Files; Trump Says Open to Talks with Maduro; Judge Slams DOJ's Use of Old Evidence in Current Comey Case. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired November 17, 2025 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
KASIE HUNT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes. Thanks to all of you at home for watching as well. Don't forget, you can now stream "The Arena" live. You can also catch up with our show whenever you want in the CNN app. We are on demand. You can scan the Q.R. on your screen to find it. You can also catch up if you prefer by looking into the "The Arena" podcast. There is another Q.R. code for that one which also appears on the bottom of your screen. You can also follow the show on X and Instagram @thearenacnn. Chances are you'll see a lot of this some place other than right here. Jake Tapper is standing by for "The Lead." Hi, Jake.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kasie. See the game last night?
HUNT: I did.
TAPPER: Really, really, really good. Anyway, we'll see you back in "The Arena" tomorrow.
HUNT: See you.
TAPPER: President Trump can get the Epstein -- Epstein files released whenever he wants. He doesn't need legislation. "The Lead" starts right now.
House Republicans, you officially have President Trump's blessing. He now says he wants you to vote in favor of releasing Epstein files. But why make America wait? Passing it into House and then the Senate and it goes to the White House. Trump himself could order the release right now. Well, we're going to talk about all of this moment with Epstein survivors coming up.
Plus, is the criminal case against former FBI Director James Comey tainted? Why a judge today is raising questions of profound investigative missteps and government misconduct.
And jailed for murder, and then exonerated, and now about to take elected office. Meet the man who was just elected to help change his city's criminal justice system to make sure no one else has to go through what he did.
Welcome to "The Lead." I'm Jake Tapper. "The Lead" tonight, President Trump pledges to sign the bill to release the Epstein files if it passes Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: So, I'm for any -- I don't care. They can do whatever they want.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): You would sign --
TRUMP: Would give them everything. Sure, I would. Let the -- let the Senate look at it. Let anybody look at it. But don't talk about it too much because, honestly, I don't want to take it away from us. It's really a Democrat problem. The Democrats were Epstein's friends. All of them. And it's a hoax. The whole thing is a hoax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: This marks the starkest policy shift yet for the president who has spent months, tooth and nail, fighting the release of the case files on the convicted pedophile and sex trafficker, Jeffrey Epstein. Even if it's not a change in tone, Trump first acquiesced to the reality last night, urging House Republicans to vote tomorrow to release the file, saying -- quote -- "We have nothing to hide and it's time to move on from this Democrat hoax." It's not a hoax.
Even before Trump's change of tune, Republican Congressman Thomas Massie, the sponsor of the bill to release the Epstein files, says he was expecting more than 100 Republicans to break with their leader and vote in favor anyway.
So, let's -- let's get real here. President Trump saw a huge defeat headed his way, and he decided to get on board. This issue especially potent after the slew of private emails from Jeffrey Epstein released last week that name dropped a number of influential figures, including President Trump himself, released by the House Oversight Committee. President Trump has never been accused, we should note, of any wrongdoing related to Jeffrey Epstein, and he denies knowing about Epstein's sex trafficking operation.
After the House vote, a source tells CNN that Senate Majority Leader John Thune is still weighing whether to schedule a vote in the Senate. The Justice Department has firmly planted its flag in the camp of there's no there there on the Epstein files. Its July memo, of course, concluded there was -- quote -- "no credible evidence found that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals as part of his actions" -- unquote.
That official -- quote -- "did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties." Hmm, I don't know about that. And that -- quote -- "no further disclosure would be appropriate or warranted." I don't know how they came up with that conclusion either.
And as a reminder, President Trump does not need this House vote or the Senate vote to compel the Justice Department or Attorney General Pam Bondi to release the Epstein files. There are plenty of legal mechanisms in place to allow him to declassify all of the information right now to deliver justice and accountability to the thousands of women at the center of this case.
The survivor of the abuse by Jeffrey Epstein and others who just this week are reminding us all in a new public service announcement of what they experienced and the transparency that they have deserved for decades.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: I was 14 years old.
UNKNOWN: I was 16 years old.
UNKNOWN: Sixteen.
UNKNOWN: Seventeen.
UNKNOWN: Fourteen years old.
UNKNOWN: This is me.
UNKNOWN: This is me.
UNKNOWN: This is me.
UNKNOWN: When I met Jeffrey Epstein.
UNKNOWN: This is me when I met Jeffrey Epstein.
UNKNOWN: It's time to bring the secrets out of the shadows. It's time to shine a light into the darkness.
(ON SCREEN TEXT): Five administrations and we're still in the dark.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[17:05:00]
TAPPER: Very, very powerful. And here with me now is one of the survivors featured in that PSA, Liz Stein. She's an anti-trafficking advocate. And also with us is Lauren Hersh. She is the national director of the group World Without Exploitation. That is the group behind that video. Very, very powerful. Um, I saw you looking down when that aired. It's probably really, really tough. How are you -- how are you doing?
LIZ STEIN, ANTI-TRAFFICKING ADVOCATE, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Thanks, Jake. Every time I watch that, I tear up. It doesn't get any easier, no matter how many times I see it.
TAPPER: Seeing the picture of yourself at 14?
STEIN: Yeah, seeing all of us. Just seeing that was captured the day that we taped that. A lot of those takes were kind of outtakes when we were processing what was going on, and they wound up being really impactful. So, they were used in the PSA. TAPPER: Well, this is what it's about. It's not about whatever. I mean, I'm sure there are people there that are hoping some prominent Democrats are going to be named and there are people who are hoping some Republicans are going to be named. I don't care. And I know you guys don't care. Just release the names. Let's get some accountability. Let's figure out how justice needs to go. Um, 11 of the survivors, Liz, came together for the -- for the video. What was it like being with those other survivors?
STEIN: One of the things that has been really beautiful that has come out of this has been the relationships that we have formed with each other and the support that we're able to give each other. We now know a lot of -- you know, the -- we -- the survivors know a lot of each other. And having those alliances, having those people who understand what you went through without having to tell them every little detail of what happened is really -- really, it has been a wonderful blessing in all of this.
TAPPER: So, Lauren, tomorrow's vote is a first step, a first step towards some sort of accountability and justice here. What would it mean for the national anti-trafficking movement that you are part of and other victims and survivors of sexual abuse for this ultimately to happen, for these files to be released?
LAUREN HERSH, NATIONAL DIRECTOR, WORLD WITHOUT EXPLOITATION: Well, Jake, the truth is survivors have been watching this closely, not just Epstein survivors but survivors across the country and truthfully around the world. And they are watching to see if -- how the government handles this. Is it something that people are going to believe? Is it something that people are going to respond to? Is there going to be accountability?
And I am really optimistic that tomorrow, we will see just that, we will see a very first step in the process of accountability, and we'll see a moment where we're listening to the voices of survivors and we're saying back to them, we believe you and we stand beside you.
TAPPER: And -- and Liz, the last line in that video, five administrations and we're still in the dark. I mean, that's so telling because, obviously, so many of these horrific individuals that preyed on you and -- and your fellow survivors are very, very powerful, wealthy, well-connected men. Um, are you feeling any sense of optimism at all?
STEIN: We're definitely feeling optimism. If we didn't have hope, then we couldn't go on. And we've been surprised in this case a lot of times. A lot of things that we never thought would happen have happened. And so, we're definitely optimistic about tomorrow being the first step and having some resolution to this.
TAPPER: And Lauren, what's your message to lawmakers, um, and the Trump administration about the importance of accountability for these survivors? Because I don't know what's in those files, but I assume we're going to learn about some people that maybe should be investigated or maybe previous prosecutors decided to not prosecute because of the age-old saw from prosecutors that the victims of these crimes are not credible enough or whatever, um, you know, which is, by the way, why they prey on young women who are vulnerable quite often.
HERSH: I mean, these survivors have been saying repeatedly, for them, this is not about partisan politics, this is about their experience, this is about holding accountable those who exploit, and that they're done having the powerful run the show here. Now, it's about the truth coming out and about listening to the voices of these survivors.
TAPPER: Liz Stein, Lauren Hersh, as always, my honor to talk to you, guys. Thank you so much. Thank you for your courage. Really, really so important. I'm glad we're here on the precipice. I hope you get the justice and accountability that you and your fellow survivors deserve.
STEIN: Thanks, Jake.
TAPPER: Next, another big story. What the president said just hours ago about the tensions building with the government of Venezuela and the chances of a U.S. military strike on that country. And later, the tense weekend after "Operation Charlotte Web." Border Patrol agents targeting yet another U.S. city. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:10:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Our "World" now, this afternoon, President Trump was asked again about Venezuela's strongman leader, Nicolas Maduro, and if there was anything Maduro could do to keep his support as the U.S. military continues to strike alleged drug boats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He has done tremendous damage to our country primarily because of drugs, but really because we have that problem with other countries, too. But more than any other country, the release of prisoners into our country has been a disaster. He has emptied his deals. Others have done that also. He has not been good to the United States. So, we'll see what happens. At a certain period of time, I'll be talking to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: U.S. officials say Trump still has not yet made a decision as to whether to order land strikes against Venezuela, but President Trump did say a new State Department terrorist designation of a Venezuelan drug cartel would give him the authority for such a strike.
Joining us now to discuss, Republican congressman from Florida, Carlos Gimenez. Congressman, good to see you. So, you praised the Trump administration's recent terrorist designation of the Venezuelan Cartel de los Soles. Do you believe it's in the U.S.'s best interest to actually strike in Venezuela, risking an all-out war with that country?
[17:14:58] REP. CARLOS GIMENEZ (R-FL): I think it's in the United States best interest that Nicolas Maduro leaves Venezuela. He's the illegitimate leader of -- of the country. There is a government, a legitimate government that won election fair and square last year. He's unwilling to give up power. He has been part of an international cartels that have killed over 500,000 Americans. And so, I applaud President Trump and his efforts to protect the American citizens and the American homeland.
TAPPER: So, President Trump said this afternoon that his beef with Maduro was primarily because of drugs. We should note, Venezuela is not the primary producer of cocaine in the region nor does Venezuela mass produce fentanyl and opioids that are killing so many tens of thousands of Americans. So, why Venezuela if the -- if the purpose, if the -- if the reasoning behind this, the casus belli, is drugs?
GIMENEZ: Well, the reason is because, you know, he -- because A, he's a legitimate ruler of Venezuela, but also a lot of the drug trafficking actually goes through Venezuela from Colombia. And so, there's a close relationship between the Venezuelan -- uh, the Venezuelan shippers and the Colombian producers, and that's how this stuff gets into the United States. And so, I'm not saying that he is the only person involved in this.
Look, there are cartels in Mexico, cartels in Colombia, cartels in Venezuela that are all part of this network that ships their poison to the United States. And like I've said, they've killed between 500,000 and a million Americans and -- over the last five years, and the -- and the United States government has done nothing about it. The number one duty of the American government is to protect its citizens, and in this case, we've been woefully inadequate.
TAPPER: Trump also said, speaking of Mexico, that he would be okay launching strikes in Mexico to stop the flow of drugs. What was your response to that?
GIMENEZ: My response to that is we need to pick up the phone and call Sheinbaum, President Sheinbaum. She's already -- she has got protests in her own country now. Her people have finally woken up to the fact that she may be involved in this, too.
Look, the -- the cartels that control the northern part of Mexico not only are -- have been shipping this poison and facilitated the shipment of this poison into the United States, but also helped with the mass migration of millions of people into the United States. Her government is no friend of the United States. And yes, she has -- her hands are -- are dirty, too, when it comes to the killing of American citizens.
And so, I would call her and say, hey, you got two weeks, man, to -- to clean up your act in the northern border or else, you know, I got to protect the -- my citizens. And again, President Trump has to protect the American citizens because that's his number one duty.
TAPPER: Have you seen any concrete evidence of narcotics on any of those 21 boats that have been targeted by the U.S. Military so far? And if so, can you -- can you tell us what the evidence is?
GIMENEZ: Hey, I can't tell you if -- if I knew because it's all in a classified setting. But I can tell you that -- that there's a high degree of confidence that those boats are filled with narcotics and that they are, you know, manned by people that are members of these terrorist organizations.
Look, let me give you an example. Suppose that was an ISIS boat filled with explosives heading into the United States, would anybody have any problem with us blowing it up? Well, the fact is that those drugs that those boats are carrying have the killing capacity far greater than a boat filled with explosives. And so, everybody is hung up about, oh, it's drugs, it's not explosives. Hey, the -- the drugs have killed a lot more Americans, far more Americans than any explosives have. And so, yeah, again, I applaud President Trump and the action that he's taking.
TAPPER: But just to be clear, aren't the drugs that are killing so many Americans, fentanyl and opioids, not so much cocaine?
GIMENEZ: Yeah, but they're the carriers, okay? No. Actually, it's the carrier drugs. So, the fentanyl is actually mixed in with a -- with the cocaine and other drugs, and that's what killing Americans. Look, one --one grain of fentanyl can kill you. You get -- you get 10 pounds of fentanyl, it'll kill, I don't know, how many -- how many millions of people.
And so, yeah, look, it's not just one individual, one cartel. This is a whole network. And by the way, it goes back to China, too, because China produces 97% of the precursor chemicals that are used to produce fentanyl. And guess what? You can't sell those chemicals in China, but they incentivize it for export.
TAPPER: Yeah.
GIMENEZ: So, China, their hands are dirty in this, too. So, it's not just one -- one party involved in this, there's a whole bunch of people involved in it, and we got to look at every single aspect of it and stop it because it has been killing Americans and continues to kill Americans every single day.
TAPPER: Republican Congressman Carlos Gimenez of Florida, thank you so much, sir. Appreciate your time.
GIMENEZ: It's my -- my pleasure.
TAPPER: Today, a federal judge is slamming the Justice Department over what he says are serious missteps in the case against former FBI Director James Comey. The major impact that this could have on the case is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) TAPPER: "Law and Justice," a federal judge says -- quote -- "government misconduct" -- unquote -- may have tainted the Justice Department's indictment of former FBI Director James Comey. That's because of evidence presented to the grand jury from a previous investigation that happened more than five years ago. The judge saying that the Justice Department used that evidence without a new court- approved search warrant and did not remove any confidential attorney- client communications.
In his opinion, Judge William Fitzpatrick said -- quote -- "The record points to a disturbing pattern of profound investigative missteps, missteps that led an FBI agent and a prosecutor to potentially undermine the integrity of the grand jury proceeding" -- unquote.
Let's bring in CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Elie Honig.
[17:25:00]
Elie, what specific prosecutorial errors does Judge Fitzpatrick cite and how significant are they?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Jake, this is a serious problem for prosecutors and it could actually threaten the continued existence of this case itself. So, two basic categories of errors the judge noted. First of all, the prosecutor made inappropriate, incorrect legal statements to the grand jury. At one point, the judge says the prosecutor, Lindsey Halligan, suggested to the grand jury that Jim Comey would have to testify, that he would not have the right to decline to testify at trial, which we all know he would have that right under the Fifth Amendment.
The other thing the prosecutor said was essentially, look, folks in the grand jury, we have other evidence, too, that we haven't showed you, it might even be better evidence, and you can think about that, too. That is completely incorrect.
The second thing, Jake, and you talked about this in the introduction, is the main evidence the prosecutors used in the grand jury was obtained back in 2019 by a search warrant, but that search warrant related to a different case and a different crime altogether. So, it's not even clear that this evidence would be usable here and those communications involved privileged communications between Jim Comey and his lawyer. And again, you're not supposed to use those as a prosecutor but, apparently, those were put in front of the grand jury. So, we got some major problems here for the prosecutors.
TAPPER: Maybe they shouldn't have put a real estate attorney in as a prosecutor just because she was loyal to Trump. The judge ordered the Justice Department to give Comey's defense team this evidence by today. How will that impact their push to have the charges that Comey lied to Congress because it's completely thrown out?
HONIG: It will be yet another basis that Comey will have to get this case dismissed in addition to the pending selective and vindictive prosecutions, motion to dismiss, and in addition to the argument that Lindsey Halligan, who you mentioned before, the prosecutor, was inappropriately appointed under the Constitution. This now, the grand jury abuses, is a third basis that Jim Comey will have. And if he wins on any of these three, by the way, then the case is gone.
TAPPER: All right. Elie Honig, thanks so much. Appreciate it. My next guest spent decades in prison, convicted of murder. His exoneration alone was life-changing. And then over the weekend, he won an election in New Orleans. Calvin Duncan will be here with his incredible story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:31:39]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: In our Politics Lead, a man exonerated for murder is soon to take office. This past Saturday, Calvin Duncan, won his race to serve as the next chief criminal court record keeper in New Orleans. Now in that same city 44 years ago police arrested him, Duncan, when he was just 19 years old for robbery and murder. And although witness testimony at trial was unreliable to say the best, a judge sentenced Duncan to life in prison.
After 28 years behind bars, Duncan was able to clear his name. He did it himself. And in January, he's going to take office as the city's newly elected clerk. Calvin Duncan joins us now. Calvin congratulations on your victory. First of all, I have to ask so you had an eighth grade education when you were thrown in prison. You became a legal expert in prison. You helped other inmates. You challenged unconstitutional practices. You got yourself out. Tell us about that. How did you do that?
CALVIN DUNCAN, ELECTED SATURDAY AS NEW ORLEANS CLERK OF CRIMINAL COURT: Yes, thank you for having me, Jake. At 19 when they when I was got arrested people was telling me that I was going to get executed get the debt penalty and I was asking them. How could I help myself? They told me that my lawyers wasn't going to come see me that they had the same lawyers that they had.
And they had also had the death penalty and I asked him how could I help myself and they said I had to become a lawyer. So I start studying law. And it worked out that I fell in love with law and I -- in trying to, you know, prevent myself from being executed there from executing me and in my case the jury rejected the debt penalty and I was sentenced to spend the rest of my life in prison.
TAPPER: But then you got yourself out. How'd you do that?
DUNCAN: Yes, so -- so one of the problems that we had in New Orleans was accessing our records, our court records. And so it was an intern named, Emily Bolton, that came to the prison and we explained to her that it was we couldn't get our records and some of us was innocent. Some of us wasn't innocent, but we wasn't afforded a fair trial and she promised that once she graduates she was going to actually come help us and she did.
And that's how the New Orleans Innocent Project was created. And then and after serving 28 and a half years on January 11th, 2000 -- January 7th, 2011, I was offered a deal to get out of prison. And I took the deal and I got out. But then while I was in my second year law school in 2021, I was called back to court and I was exonerated and --
TAPPER: Amazing.
DUNCAN: That's -- that's how -- so I got out in 2011 and then exonerated 2021.
TAPPER: Amazing. So your opponent whom you defeated he claimed you were never really exonerated of that murder in a city that has one of the highest rates of wrongful convictions. Obviously that message did not resonate with voters.
DUNCAN: Yes -- yes, the voters sent a clear message that -- that that rhetoric meanness is not acceptable. It's at least in New Orleans and that they wasn't going to tolerate that. And the -- the citizens of New Orleans did the right thing. They sent that message that -- that I was fully exonerated, that -- the court records show that I was telling the truth and my opponent wasn't telling the truth and it was -- is a message that in the future.
[17:35:06]
No neglect suspicion should actually be mean like there was as mean as to me about something that I had no control of like I -- it wasn't my fault that I was -- I was locked up at a young age and throw it into prison.
TAPPER: Yes.
DUNCAN: But while in prison, I educated myself to help other people and myself as well. And then once I got out, I educated myself in order to take this position because in 2011 when I got out, I continue to try to help people get access to the records in that courthouse and I couldn't. So I went off to law school to prove myself.
I got my undergrad degree, bachelor's degree, social degree -- social degree, bachelor's degree. And then at age 57, I went to law school. And at age 60, I received my JD came back to New Orleans continue to help people get access to the records. And when I learned that this position was open, I immediately qualified and I had been -- and I start running for it.
TAPPER: Calvin incredible, incredible. I mean just your determination and your -- your disposition are just an inspiration to us all, the idea that instead of falling into the pit of despair as many of us would you became what you have become is just such a remarkable story. We wish you all the best of luck in your new position. Calvin Duncan, thank you.
DUNCAN: Thank you.
TAPPER: In just a few minutes, President Trump is set to speak at a conference with owners of McDonald's franchises, but will his voice hold up how he explained sounding fairly raspy today. Plus, from last night what the President did not say when asked about a Nazi and the man who platforms that Nazi. Well, it speaks volumes. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:40:56]
TAPPER: We're back with our segment today at the White House, a series that simply looks at exactly that. President Trump took questions in the Oval Office and you couldn't help but notice his voice sounded a little different. A reporter asked if he was feeling all right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I feel great. I was shouting at people because they were stupid about something having to do with trade and a country and I straightened it out, but I blew my stack at these people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it sounds like there's a follow-up there, but can I ask you about Venezuela? You suggested --
TRUMP: It sounds like a what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It sounds like there's a follow-up there. Can I ask you about Venezuela?
TRUMP: I thought you said there was a polyp. I don't want to hear that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: I don't know why they didn't ask the follow-up. Who are you yelling at? Anyway, turning to our Politics Lead, President Trump last night weighed in on a festering issue that has caused something of a civil war within the Republican Party. It's about neo-Nazi Nick Fuentes and whether it's appropriate for prominent conservative media figures such as Tucker Carlson to platform Fuentes without seriously challenging his false and heinous views.
This morning, a board member of the powerful conservative think-tank, The Heritage Foundation, widely respected Princeton professor, Robert George, announced his resignation from Heritage calling for a, quote, full retraction after Heritage president Kevin Roberts had posted a video last month where he defended his friend, Tucker Carlson, and in Tucker's decision to interview Fuentes.
After days of this debate within conservative circles, we finally heard from the President on this topic last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We've had some great interviews with Tucker Carlson, but you can't tell him who to interview. I mean, if he wants to interview Nick Fuentes, I don't know much about him. But if he wants to do it, get the word out. Let him, you know, people have to decide. Ultimately, people have to decide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: The neo-Nazi Nick Fuentes replied on Twitter or X, "Thank you, Mr. President." So there we have it. President Trump expressing no issues with neo-Nazi Nick Fuentes who has expressed an affinity for Adolf Hitler and regularly traffics in racist, sexist, anti-Semitic filth. Now, some conservatives such as Senators Ted Cruz and Senator Mitch McConnell have criticized Tucker Carlson for his very friendly, lengthy interview with Nick Fuentes.
Other Republicans have not been so blunt in their condemnation of Fuentes or Carlson or even condemned either of them. Vice President J.D. Vance considered the next leader in the MAGA line of succession. He's no stranger to questions about Republicans espousing anti- Semitism in the last few months following the young Republicans texting scandal, which was first reported by "Politico," which included one message where one of the young Republicans said, "I love Hitler."
Vice President Vance character -- characterized those expressing outrage as, "pearl clutching." And the Vice President repeatedly referred to the participants as kids, even though the ages of the people in the group range from 18 to 40. Fuentes is, of course, a Nazi of a more loathsome order than those on that text chain. And he has a history of going after not just Jews, but Vice President Vance. He called -- he said a number of nasty things about his wife.
Vance himself, called Fuentes a total loser in a 2024 "CBS" interview before the election after Fuentes attacked his wife, Usha Vance, and her Indian heritage. Here's just one of these vile moments. A quick warning to our viewers, this condemnation of Vance by Fuentes is not pleasant to listen to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK FUENTES, NEO-NAZI: Now they're all in favor of a fat race mixer who's married to a jeet who named his son Vivek.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Now, this week and last, I repeatedly asked Vance's office for any comment about this internal war about Fuentes, specifically about Tucker Carlson platforming Fuentes. And there was no response. This weekend, Vance did weigh in on something related to this issue. It had to do with another member of the Carlson family, Tucker's son, Buckley, who works for Vance. And he, Vice President Vance, attacked just some rando on Twitter as a, quote, scumbag because this woman claimed that Tucker's brother idolizes Nick Fuentes and questioned whether Tucker's son, Buckley, who works for Vance, is a vile bigot too.
[17:45:07]
We here at CNN have absolutely no idea if Tucker's relatives feel any way about Fuentes. But it is clear from recent Twitter posts that his brother, also named Buckley, supports Tucker's platforming of Fuentes. Again, in August 2024, a few months before being elected, Vice President Vance condemned Fuentes. But since then, since the inauguration, Vice President Vance has weighed in on these issues only to defend people using anti-Semitic or racist language.
He certainly hasn't called any of them scumbags. So on this Republican Civil War, on whether it's OK to platform Nazis or espouse anti- Semitism, President Trump has weighed in, as has Vice President Vance. President Trump clearly leaning on the idea of free speech to make his point. Yet at the same time, Trump, of course, has no problem trying to get comedians who make fun of him fired.
Clearly, neither President Trump nor Vice President Vance are shy about attacking or insulting anyone they don't like. They have opted to not do so when it comes to Nazis like Nick Fuentes. At a time when hate crimes against Jewish Americans are only rising in the United States, the President and the Vice President, when it comes to this Civil War, they've made their views clear. They're not going to condemn Nazis. They're not going to condemn those who platform them.
My panel joins me now. Thanks so much. Why is this so tough, Ashley Davis? Why -- why, like, I mean, it -- it -- by the way, we should note, obviously, this is going on to a lesser extent at this current moment on the left as well.
ASHLEY DAVIS, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL, GEORGE W. BUSH ADMIN.: Well, absolutely. I mean, listen, anti-Semitism in this country, I feel, has been at the forefront more so in the last three years than it has been in the, you know, in my adult life. And I think it needs to stop. I mean, we have it on the --
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: On both sides.
DAVIS: -- yes, we have it on the extreme left. And now, I mean, I think what the President was trying to say is I can't tell Tucker who to interview or not. I'm not trying to defend it. But it needs to stop. And also, actually, you know, the same side attacks on Muslims. I mean, I remember when I was in the White House, President Bush, after 9-11, made sure we read the Quran.
HINOJOSA: Yes.
DAVIS: So we knew that this was not a hijack on their religion. It was a -- it was terrorists. And this is what -- this is the leadership of this country that needs to happen on those sides of the aisle. It's horrible.
HINOJOSA: Yes. Well, and also, I think that like what's -- this divide that's happening in the Republican Party, you haven't seen it before because everybody's been so united around Trump. And now you're looking at 2028, where Trump is not on the ballot anymore. And people, the Republican Party will need to figure out whether or not they're going to embrace Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes, and that side, or whether they're going to speak out against some of that terrible language that you played right there.
So I think it'll be interesting to see what happens and how J.D. Vance goes about this. There have been a lot of Republicans like Ted Cruz and others who have spoken out. And you're starting to see these divides within MAGA really occur. And so I agree that they should speak out. And for Donald Trump to say, I'm not going to tell Tucker Carlson what to say or who to interview. I'm sorry. The man tells, you know, this on Truth Social.
TAPPER: He just told -- he just told "NBC" to fire Seth Meyers.
HINOJOSA: Yes, I mean, that is constantly happening. He doesn't actually believe that people who oppose his views should be out there and should be interviewed. But yet he believes someone like Nick Fuentes, it's OK to interview. So I think find that ironic.
DAVIS: So why do you think now, sorry for interrupting here.
TAPPER: No, no.
DAVIS: But -- but why, Jewish are not reli -- Jewish people in this country do not vote Republican for the most part. They mostly vote Democrat.
TAPPER: I think it's like 60-40 the last election.
DAVIS: But listen, I mean, like the Republican Party has never, ever, ever not supported the -- the Israeli community.
TAPPER: Right.
DAVIS: Especially overseas and Israel in general.
TAPPER: Right.
DAVIS: So I just don't understand why we're letting ourselves as Republicans get pigeonholed into this -- this conversation because first of all, who would ever support Nazism or anything else?
TAPPER: Yes, I -- I don't know. Let's turn the page to another topic. The major blow to President Trump's push to shore up the Republican majority in the House by doing this mid-decade redistricting. Indiana's GOP state Senate leader announced that Indiana's state Senate is not going to redraw its maps next month.
President Trump took to Truth Social to say he's going to against any Republican who doesn't pursue redistricting efforts. And we have seen such a similar setbacks in Kansas, Nebraska, New Hampshire. So it's not going exactly as President Trump wanted. It is in Texas, but not in a lot of other places.
HINOJOSA: Well, I think Donald Trump is facing the reality that he's not getting everything that he wants. He has obviously Texas move forward with exactly what Trump requested after the legislative session had ended.
He also has a Justice Department who is currently challenging California who also tried to find a basis for the Texas redistricting. And so at every turn at you -- and then you also have Congress who, you know, is playing ball with whatever he wants. And so this is the first time that I think you really see a Republican state and elected officials kind of pushing back on Trump. You haven't seen that.
[17:50:16]
TAPPER: Yes.
HINOJOSA: And I'm actually wondering if this is the start of something as we head into Donald Trump is sort of a lame duck, which you know that he doesn't want to be. But like, is this what we are expected to see from Republicans moving forward? They're not going to necessarily sign off on every request coming from Donald.
TAPPER: Ashley, do you -- because we've also seen Republicans in Congress pushing back on President Trump on the Epstein files, which the before in toll, you know, like yesterday only four House Republicans were going to vote to release the Epstein file or only four had put their names on this -- on the discharge petition and then others started coming out and saying I'm going to sign -- I'm going to vote for it. I'm going to vote for it. And now it looks as though they might not even have to vote on it. It might just be a unanimous consent.
DAVIS: Yes. Remember we started this saying that it was a conspiracy theory way back, you know under Biden. But listen, Epstein this needs to go away and we do need to vote on it. But also people are elected because of their constituents and that's what they're voting on. So whether it's my Marjorie Taylor Greene or whoever, now, it's like you said so many, they're voting what their constituents wants and they want the answers on this.
But going back to redistricting even when Holder started this like way back when in -- in Chicago or Illinois, I've always said that redistricting in regards to just making purple or just red or blue seats only is like a horrible disaster.
TAPPER: I want to just run this quick clip and just get a yes or no if you agree with -- this is former first lady, Michelle Obama asked about the prospect of a female president. Here's what you have to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: We saw in this past election. Sadly, we ain't ready. That's why I'm like don't even look at me about running because you all are lying. You're not ready for a woman. You are not. So don't waste my time. You know, we got a lot of growing up to do and they're still -- I'm sadly, a lot of men who do not feel like they can be led by a woman and we saw it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: We don't have the time for a fulsome discussion on this. But do you agree with her?
HINOJOSA: Yes.
TAPPER: Do you?
DAVIS: Yes, Nikki Haley.
TAPPER: Oh, wow. Oh my God.
DAVIS: We agreed.
TAPPER: I'm so sorry that you feel that way. Thanks to both of you. The crackdown in Charlotte more than 100 arrests and just the first 48 hours of immigration agents targeting North Carolina's largest city. We're going to take you there, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:56:47]
TAPPER: In our National Lead, in just two days Border Patrol agents carrying out Trump's immigration crackdown in Charlotte North Carolina have made dozens of arrests across the city businesses who say their customers are targets of the immigration operation are either remaining closed or locking their doors behind everyone that comes and goes. CNN's Dianne Gallagher is in Charlotte where this immigration crackdown is leaving the community on edge.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWD: ICE out of Charlotte now.
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Protests in Charlotte as tensions escalate in the Tar Heel State's largest city at least 130 people arrested so far by Border Patrol agents and Homeland Security's latest Customs and Border Protection immigration crackdown dubbed Charlotte's Web. Video obtained by CNN shows Gregory Bovino, Trump's top border official who also recently spearheaded a controversial operation in Chicago with other federal agents as they detained an individual outside a grocery store.
Over the weekend federal agents smashed a car window and briefly detained a man who says he's been an American citizen for six years and showed officers. He had a real I.D. He was later released. In a statement, DHS said during an enforcement operation in Charlotte. This individual became erratic refused lawful commands and had to be removed from his vehicle. DHS law enforcement followed their training to remove him. Some local officials still in the dark say they don't feel safe.
JD MAZUERA ARLAS, CHARLOTTE CITY COUNCIL-ELECT: I went through the right process. I became a legal U.S. citizen and even I cannot feel safe especially after seeing the footage of a U.S. citizen being detained.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): Homeland Security releasing this wild video claiming the driver of a white man a U.S. citizen tried to ram into law enforcement, quote, while they were conducting an operation on Sunday after a high speed chase. The driver was eventually arrested. DHS says firearms were found inside the vehicle and one officer was injured in the incident.
VIC MARTINEZ, CHARLOTTE RESIDENT: They got mask on. Come on. I mean you're not going into a war zone.
GOV. JOSH STEIN (D-NC): Everyone wants to be safe in their communities but the actions of too many federal agents are doing the exact opposite in Charlotte. We've seen masked heavily armed agents and paramilitary garb driving unmarked cars targeting American citizens.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): Though police data shows a 20 percent drop in violent crime. Charlotte was thrust into the national spotlight a few months back after 23-year-old Ukrainian refugee Iryna Zarutska was stabbed to death on the city's light rail train. The man charged in her killing is a U.S. citizen.
MANUEL "MANOLO" BETANCUR, OWNER, MANOLO'S BAKERY: I decided not to risk my customers, not to risk my employees and not risk myself and my family.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): Many businesses have closed up shop like this popular Colombian bakery, which shut its doors for only the second time in 28 years after federal agents were seen chasing down community members.
BETANCUR: It's too risky and I don't want to carry my shoulders. The heaviness of -- of maybe a kid to lose their father or their mother because they were on their way to the bakery.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): Dianne Gallagher, CNN, Charlotte.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[17:59:57]
TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, President Trump is set to take the stage any minute at a summit alongside McDonald's franchise owners here in D.C. the topic is affordability. Will the President --
