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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Deepening Political Divide Over Deadly Jan. 6 Capitol Attack; U.S. Lawmakers Question Trump Admin's Plan For Venezuela; Pentagon Targets Sen. Kelly's Military Retirement Pay As Punishment Over "Illegal Orders" Video; Trump Warns House GOP He Will Be Impeached If Dems Win. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired January 06, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right, thanks very much to my panel. Really appreciate you guys being here. Thanks to you at home for watching as well. Don't forget, you can now stream The Arena live. You can catch up whenever you want in the CNN app.

Just scan that QR code below. You can also catch up by listening to The Arenas podcasts. We're also on X and Instagram. We're at thearenacnn. Jake Tapper is standing by for "The Lead."

This is our first live handoff of the New Year, Jake. It's probably for the best that we didn't have one after the Eagles game. So, I'm happy to --

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Why got to even bring that up. HUNT: -- I'm happy to watch your show instead.

TAPPER: Even bringing that up.

HUNT: I'm sorry.

TAPPER: Now we're the number three. Anyway, Kasie, thank you so much, kind of.

HUNT: Have a great show.

TAPPER: We'll look for more tomorrow in "The Arena."

[17:00:43]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Quote, "If you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country," end quote. President Donald J. Trump on this day five years ago. The Lead starts right now.

A new capital rally after the deadly riots there five years ago, today, a riot incited by President Trump who then refused to accept that he lost the 2020 election. What was his message for Republicans today? Plus, the world reacts to Stephen Miller on this show saying that the U.S. is going to take Greenland. I'm going to talk to a Republican congressman and former general who calls Miller's plan BS. And the major change to the number of vaccines now recommended for children in America, what this could mean for your own family's health.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. And we're going to start today in the politics lead because it has been five years since one of the darkest chapters in American political history, the deadly attack on the U.S. Capitol. Today, House Democrats and members of the former January 6th select committee held an unofficial hearing with people who witnessed the violence and later gathered on the Capitol steps to mark the memory of what happened. We also saw a different type of remembrance today, a march on the Capitol led by the people who know their way around from five years ago.

Because many of them participated in the attack, many were pardoned by Trump last year. The Proud Boys and January 6th convicts organized an event called the January 6th Memorial March. It was supposedly to honor the life of Ashli Babbitt, who was lied to by President Trump and his allies and then stormed the Capitol and was shot by an officer after entering the Capitol and trying to breach the chamber door.

Today's March Even oddly honored Capitol Police officer Brian Sicknick, who died a day after collapsing during the attack. The marchers did not acknowledge any responsibility for his death. Perhaps the most notorious attendee of today's march, Enrique Tarrio, the Proud Boys leader convicted of seditious conspiracy. He had been sentenced to prison until the year 2045. And then Donald Trump intervened.

Here's a little reminder of the marchers handiwork five years ago. The American people need to be clear eyed about what exactly happened on that day. There have been and continue to be numerous attempts to whitewash or rewrite the history of that sad day, such as this taxpayer funded website of whitehouse.com acting as though what Trump did was the fault of the Democrats or the police. Democrat -- I'm sorry, the whitehouse.gov. What happened, the facts of the matter is this, for months, with polls showing a weary public ready to turn the page on the Trump presidency, then President Donald Trump, with no actual evidence, repeatedly claimed that the 2020 election was going to be stolen from him.

At times, the theories about how this would be done or was done were laughable. One theory had conspirators in Italy, including perhaps the Vatican, using satellite to switch votes from Biden to Trump. Dozens of these accusations were adjudicated by election boards, secretaries of state, governors, judges, and there was nothing there. Nothing.

On January 2, 2021, President Trump called the Georgia Secretary of State, a conservative Republican named Brad Raffensperger, and urged Raffensperger to figure out a way to reverse the Biden win in Georgia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So look, all I want to do is this, I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more that we have because we won the state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:05:00]

TAPPER: Fact check, you lost the state, President Trump, you lost Georgia. Now many of those who most desperately were urging President Trump and his team to stop lying about the election five years ago were conservative Republicans, such as another Georgia election official, Gabe Sterling. Here he is before January 6, in December.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GABE STERLING, GEORGIA ELECTION OFFICIAL: Someone's going to get hurt, someone's going to get shot, someone's going to get killed, and it's not right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: He was warning that Trump's lies were going to have an impact. And unfortunately, Gabe Sterling's words came true. Because five years ago today, a crowd beckoned by Trump in a late night Tweet gathered in D.C. cheered on by election liars in the media, such as the man who is now our current Secretary of Defense. Fox, we should note, ultimately paid a $787 million settlement to Dominion Voting Machines for their lies about the election.

But go back to that date. A deranged, desperate theory took hold. One that Vice President Mike Pence, when he was presiding over the counting of electoral votes on January 6, that he could somehow send them back to the states based on lies.

That's where the fake electors, MAGA, calls them alternate electors, would theoretically replace the legitimate Biden electors, helping Trump to steal the election. Now, five years ago today, President Trump told his supporters that they needed to go to Capitol Hill to push politicians there to reverse the election. Trump said they should do so peacefully. But he also said a lot of other stuff, including this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We will never give up, we will never concede. It doesn't happen. You don't concede when there's theft involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: He also said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Because if Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: He also said this.

TRUMP: We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Fight like hell, they did. They even threatened to hang the vice president, who was presiding over the electoral vote count and who refused to break the law. Secret Service agents protecting the vice president and his family were legitimately worried about his safety and his family safety. Members of Congress that day fled for their lives. There's Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri, fleeing for his life, including flying -- those fleeing for their lives included some of those who just hours before were spreading the election lies, encouraging the protesters, such as Senator Hawley.

Only after hours did President Trump finally issue a video urging his supporters to leave the Capitol. That day, five Trump supporters died in the attack on the Capitol. In the aftermath, Officer Brian Sicknick died. More than 140 police officers were injured by that mob. And after the trauma of that day, four police officers took their own lives. It was a sad, it was a disgusting day.

The Republican speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy at the time called it un-American, the attack. But then Trump won in 2024, and the prosecution against him for his role in the attack was dropped. And Trump granted clemency to almost 1,600 criminals who participated in that attack. But pardons and commutations notwithstanding, the lies put out by the White House and the defenses put out by Republicans pretending that they don't know any better, there is nothing that will wipe the stain of that day, the moral stain, off the hands of President Trump and all of those who participated in the attack and who enabled his deadly lies.

Let's discuss with Jeffrey Goldberg, he's senior editor of The Atlantic, who attended the January 6 rally on the Ellipse today. So that -- the magazine's February cover reads, "Donald Trump wants you to forget this happened."

Jeffrey, you write that Trump's pardoning of, quote, "his cop-beating foot soldiers represents the lowest moment of this presidency so far because it was an act not only of naked despotism, but also of outlandish hypocrisy." Explain what you mean by that and what you make of the march on the Capitol today.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG, EDITOR IN CHIEF, THE ATLANTIC: Yes. Well, the march is what it is. You know, there's nothing like a good offense. And the White House and its allies are trying to convince the American people that what happened on January 6, to borrow from Donald Trump's words, was an act of love, which, you know, anybody with eyeballs can see that it was many things, but it was not an act of love. But what I mean by the hypocrisy is this.

It's a foundation of MAGA ideology, that MAGA and Donald Trump are pro-police and are the law and order ideology, that Donald Trump is a law and order president. But what we saw on January 6, and more to the point, what we saw with the mass pardoning of the rioters of January 6, is a kind of hypocrisy that's just breathtaking. You cannot say that you are pro-police when you pardon criminals who are convicted in American courts of law of assaulting, beating, trying to gouge the eyes out of police officers.

[17:10:32]

So, it's -- I use the word outlandish for a reason. And it's almost -- it's a breathtaking level of hypocrisy to say that you are pro police when you pardon people who beat up police officers.

TAPPER: Yes. Later in the show, we're going to talk to Officer Danny Hodges, one of the police officers beaten that day. So many Republicans, including South Carolina Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, initially distanced themselves from Trump in the wake of the Capitol attack. But five years later, we see a complete flip flop. Why do you think President Trump was able to overcome this politically when this is just in recent political memory? One of the worst things that has happened to this country.

GOLDBERG: You know, this is you're asking deep questions about character and ambition and fear and all the rest. Obviously, on that day and in the day or two that followed, most Republicans were appalled, especially those who worked on Capitol Hill were appalled by what they saw and said so. Then they had some time to rearrange their views and try to -- try to make those views align with some of their own supporters. And then as time went on, Donald Trump came back, obviously won in '24. And people like Lindsey Graham -- I mean, Lindsey Graham once told me, I once asked him, you know, how do you go from being a John McCain sidekick to a Donald Trump sidekick?

That's actually a kind of ideological and character logical impossibility. And he told me, very honestly, I thought, he said, look, if you know anything about me, Jeff, it's that I need to be relevant. And so Donald Trump is the president. And a lot of people like being near power. And, you know, Donald Trump has a unique gift of pushing his own line in a kind of a shameless way.

He doesn't -- he doesn't really have -- he doesn't express self-doubt. He doesn't seem to feel doubt. And he believed -- I think if you hooked him up to a lie detector test and you asked him, was January 6th a day of love, he might actually pass the lie detector test because he really internalizes beliefs that make him look good or advance his cause.

TAPPER: Jeffrey Goldberg, editor of The Atlantic magazine. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Moments ago, the White House acknowledged that the president is looking at a range of options for the U.S. to acquire Greenland. A Republican congressman who calls the whole idea stupid and BS is going to join us next. And Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer is going to be here on The Lead. What he can reveal one day after sitting through that classified briefing on the capture of Nicholas Maduro.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:16:58]

TAPPER: Topping our worldly today, earlier today White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said that President Trump is discussing a range of options to acquire Greenland, adding that the U.S. military is always an option. This comes just hours after Danish and European leaders issued an icy warning following our interview on the show yesterday with White House Deputy Chief of Staff for Policy Stephen Miller.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: But can you say that military action against Greenland is off the table?

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR POLICY: The real question is by what right does Denmark assert control over Greenland? What is the basis of their territorial claim? What is their basis of having Greenland as a colony of Denmark? The United States is the power of NATO. So I'm not going to --

TAPPER: So you can't take it off the table that the U.S. would use military force to seize Greenland.

MILLER: Nobody's going to fight the United States militarily over the future of Greenland.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In a joint statement, the leaders of France, Germany, Italy, Poland, Spain, Britain and Denmark made the point that Greenland is a part of NATO and allies are stepping up to keep the Arctic safe. Republican Congressman Don Bacon of Nebraska also reacted, saying, quote, "this is really dumb." Adding, quote, "there is no upside to demeaning our friends," unquote.

In another post, Congressman Bacon wrote, "Russia and China love it, so stop the stupid we want Greenland BS."

Let's bring in the man who wrote those posts, Republican Congressman Don Bacon. He's also a retired Air Force brigadier general. He's on the House Armed Services Committee.

Congressman, the White House just reiterated that U.S. military action to acquire Greenland is not off the table. Have you talked to anybody in the White House, President Trump, Secretary of State Rubio, or anyone else in the administration about this?

REP. DON BACON (R-NE), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Well, not since Miller's comment yesterday. But I hope Republicans stand up against this, universally oppose and give the feedback to the president because this is appalling. Greenland is a NATO ally. We have a base on Greenland. We could put four or five bases on Greenland. They would -- they wouldn't mind that.

They would make agreements with us on mining. Denmark is one of our best friends. They had more people per capita die in Afghanistan, in Iraq, fighting for us in Iraq and Afghanistan. So they're a proven ally. So the way we're treating them is really demeaning. And it has no upside. All it does is making our NATO allies angry. It's creating distrust, and there is no upside to it. And we're not going to acquire Greenland. I know most people in Greenland want to remain independent Greenland with Denmark providing, you know, some protection.

And they count on us. We're NATO allies. We have bases there and we could build on that. So this is one of the silliest things I have heard come out of the White House in the last year. And it's unacceptable.

And I hope other Republicans line up behind me and make it clear to the White House it's wrong.

TAPPER: Let's turn to Venezuela because you've advocated for the Trump administration to focus on the people of Venezuela rather than the oil companies. The U.S. Energy Secretary is meeting with oil executives this week despite industry sources telling CNN that they're unlikely to dive headfirst into Venezuela because of all the political instability. You going to bring this up in the all members briefing on Venezuela tomorrow?

[17:20:05]

BACON: Well, I've got to definitely sit in the briefing and listen to what they have to say. Here's my concern, and I would say, yes, our companies got nationalized and their assets were taken by Venezuela. So there's legitimate claims here that should be balanced. But that should not be our focus. Our focus should be on the fact that Maduro and Chavez ruined Venezuela.

They ruined their democracy. Made them-- they took them from the wealthiest country in South America to the poorest. They've lost their political freedoms, their liberties. That should be where we're focused. There's a lady named by Machado and her number two person, Gonzalez.

They won the election. We should be talking about putting them in power, not the vice -- the current vice president, who is also the illegitimate vice president. I just think if we got to stick on a higher plane here. If it's about oil and putting our cronies into power, this is not going to look good in the long run. If we do the right thing and put the people who rightfully won the election and we work with them on making sure that they pay back our companies, that's fair enough.

But let's restore democracy and human rights and prosperity to Venezuela.

TAPPER: We're going to interview Democratic Senator Mark Kelly in just a few minutes, a fellow veteran, you retweeted a post that said that the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, his decision to try to cut Senator Kelly's retirement pay from the Navy is, quote, "cheesy and low class," but conceded that Kelly's video telling U.S. service members to disobey illegal orders. You say that's foolish. Do you think Congress should get directly involved in this? BACON: Well, I think we will if Hegseth goes through with this, we should. I don't defend the video, even though people have a right to their freedom of speech. I thought -- first of all they were quoting the law, so. So you're not going to be able to punish Senator Kelly for quoting the law. But it was obviously meant to politicize the military.

They were stating things that were taught day one in the military. I served nearly 30 years in the Air Force. You're taught this all the time. We only follow lawful orders. But we should have just kept the focus on the video.

But when the president and the secretary talk about treason, sedition, calling back Kelly and court martialing him, now they're saying now we're just going to downgrade us -- his last rank so he gets paid less, it's not right, you know. And they're doing something -- they were quoting the law in this video. So they don't really have a leg to stand on. And I just think it's an overreaction and I think Americans are tired of it. I thought the video was an overreaction.

But I think people just want to see some grownups in the room and some common sense and decency. Put the focus on the video by take -- by threatening demoting him and paying him less. Now you become the focus and it's not a good focus.

TAPPER: Republican Congressman Don Bacon of Nebraska, thank you so much, sir. Appreciate it.

BACON: Thank you.

TAPPER: So with Nicolas Maduro out, who is calling the shots right now in Venezuela? plus the tension right across the Venezuelan border in Colombia. CNN's Clarissa Ward is live from the region next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:26:56]

TAPPER: Back in our world lead, tensions are high in Venezuela after the U.S. capture of Nicolas Maduro. His regime largely remains intact, except for Maduro and his wife. There are reports in Venezuela of continued media repression, even worse than before, and security forces patrolling the streets. CNN Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward is in Colombia's capital, Bogota.

And Clarissa, foreign journalists have had a difficult time getting into Venezuela. What do we know about what's happening there?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, foreign journalists have not been allowed at all and not for lack of trying. Venezuelan journalists are also having a very tough time. Yesterday, according to the Union for Journalists in Venezuela, about a dozen journalists were detained. They were held for some time. They were ultimately released.

But really, I think that speaks to a very tense atmosphere on the ground. Last night in Caracas, we saw scenes of some chaos and gunfire breaking out. It turned out that this was just a sort of misunderstanding between different groups of security forces. But again, this really speaks to the anxiety on the ground to the paranoia of the security forces on the ground. We have also been speaking to residents there who have said that these so called Colectivos, these gangs who are loyal to the government, have been arbitrarily searching people's cars.

And we saw a post online from this sort of ultimate strongman of the Venezuelan government, the Interior Minister, Diosdado Cabello. He was posing with a group of armed policemen at night and they were chanting, and I quote, "loyalty forever and doubt is treason." Again, all of this giving people inside Venezuela, and particularly in the capital of Caracas, real fear that there is going to be a much more intensive and brutal crackdown, especially as we saw the government yesterday announcing that decree whereby security forces have been instructed to round up anyone who is believed to have supported the U.S. attack. It is a holiday today, Jake. So calmer today, but certainly tense.

TAPPER: Maduro's vice president, Delcy Rodriguez, is now serving as the acting president. Do Venezuelans trust her?

WARD: Well, obviously, Jake, it depends who you talk to. But if you talk to the majority of Venezuelans who in the last election voted against Maduro, they do not trust her. They see her very much as part and parcel of Maduro's government, of the Chavismo era of ethos, and they are extremely concerned about what this portends. They were hoping that when they first saw this U.S. action in Venezuela that there would be some kind of pro-democratic force that would be coming in. And now they see Rodriguez and they see that she's in a sort of impossible position as well, Jake, whereby she has to answer to the demands of the Trump administration.

She also has to answer to the demands of hardliners inside her own government. And where does that leave the people of Venezuela, Jake?

[17:30:11]

TAPPER: Clarissa Ward in Colombia's capital of Bogota, right across the border from Venezuela. Thank you so much.

Some breaking news from Wall Street in our Money Lead, check out the Dow making history, finishing above the 49,000 mark for the first time ever. The S&P 500 and the Nasdaq also closed today with gains. Coming up next here on The Lead, Senator Mark Kelly in his first CNN interview as the Pentagon tries to demote him and dock his pay for that video urging U.S. service members to remember they need to refuse any illegal orders.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Our Politics Lead now, Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona is refusing to back down as the Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth moves to cut his military retirement pay and demote his rank.

[17:35:00] This is a punishment for Kelly's participation in that video several weeks ago where he and five other Democratic lawmakers with national security experience urged U.S. service members to refuse any orders that are illegal. Retired Navy Captain Senator Mark Kelly joins me now.

Senator, in Hegseth's censure letter, which you call bullshit, it includes an apparent threat of criminal prosecution if you engage in any similar conduct going forward, yet you're adamant that you're going to continue to speak out. What actions are you going to take in response to what the DOD is doing right now? Are you going to sue Hegseth? What's coming next?

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Well, we have options. I have attorneys. I'm not taking this lying down. We're going to, you know, mount a defense because this is significant. I mean, what they're trying to do to me sends a message to all these other retired members of the military, veterans, active duty service members and just U.S. citizens that if you say something that this president or this Secretary of Defense doesn't like, they're going to come after you. They're going to try to stifle your speech. They're going to shut you up. So I'm not going to back down from these guys.

And if you, you know, look closely at the censure letter, this wasn't just about that video. They go beyond this. They're looking at what I've said over months. They have things that are not accurate in there. But they also talk about how I criticize them over firing admirals and generals. I'm on the Armed Services Committee. I have oversight responsibility over Pete Hegseth. When he makes a bad decision, it's not only my right, it's my obligation.

TAPPER: We've heard Democrats say that the operation in Venezuela was illegal. Do you think it was illegal? And if so, should the service members who were part of that have refused to obey those orders?

KELLY: So what we were talking about in the video is about a service member being given a specific order and having to make a decision about whether this is lawful or not. And this is like the reasonable person theory. What you're getting at is constitutional questions. Can a president try to do a law enforcement action on a head of state, but use 150 airplanes and the full force of the U.S. military to do that? So these are two different things.

Now, Maduro is a bad guy, and it's good that he's gone. It seems like this president, because he had no plan beyond removing Maduro, has now installed Maduro's number two person in Delcy Rodriguez. You know, that's what we call in the Navy fleeting up, when the executive officer becomes the commanding officer. That's the situation we have in Venezuela right now. And it's because I don't think they had a plan of what was going to come next.

TAPPER: Last month, CNN's KFile reported on video from 2016 of Hegseth talking about this is back when Hegseth was skeptical of Trump and he worked for "Fox." Hegseth talking about the military's obligation to reject any illegal orders. His comments were recorded at an event hosted by the Liberty Forum Silicon Valley. Here's some of that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I do think there have to be consequences for abject war crimes. If you're doing something that is just completely unlawful and ruthless, then there is a consequence for that. That's why the military said it won't follow unlawful orders from their commander-in-chief. There's a standard. There's an ethos. There's a belief that we are above what so many things that our enemies or others would do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Do you think there's any substantive difference between what you said and what then "Fox" correspondent or whatever he was, Pete Hegseth, said?

KELLY: Pretty much exactly the same thing. He was a little bit more specific about it. He said it multiple times. He said it specifically about Donald Trump. We're talking about the administration in general and that members of the military have to follow the law. It's in the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

So that Pete Hegseth, 2016 Pete Hegseth, we're in agreement. But the fact that he can come after me because I said the same thing, it's the height of hypocrisy.

TAPPER: Yesterday, I was interviewing Stephen Miller and asked him to clarify what Trump meant when he said that he is running Venezuela. Here's part of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR POLICY: We have the United States military stationed outside the country. We set the terms and conditions. We have a complete embargo on all of their oil and their ability to do commerce. So for them to do commerce, they need our permission. For them to be able to run an economy, they need our permission. So the United States is in charge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What do you think?

KELLY: Why does anybody believe this guy? I mean, he obviously does not -- they don't do not have a plan. They need to have a plan. Venezuela used to be a democracy, right? And we should be at this point making efforts to help them get back to a democracy, to have a democratically elected government running Venezuela. We do not want to be in the business of running, you know, this other country.

[17:40:10]

And by the way, regime change generally has not worked out well for us. Look at South Vietnam, Cuba, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan. It usually does not go the way that we hope. And it often puts service members in serious harm's way. TAPPER: Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York, is headed to the camera next. What he can tell us 24 hours after that classified briefing with top Trump administration officials on the capture of Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Some breaking news in our World Lead. Two U.S. service members who were injured in the operation in Venezuela to capture Nicolas Maduro and his wife are still recovering. Five others have since returned to duty. That's according to an official. We had previously reported that a handful of troops had sustained shrapnel and bullet wounds during the operation, but nothing life-threatening.

[17:45:07]

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York, says the administration provided no real answers during a closed-door briefing on that operation. He's accusing the White House of not having a plan for what happens next in Venezuela. Leader Schumer joins us now live from Capitol Hill. Leader Schumer, thanks for joining us.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: Hi Jake.

TAPPER: So you said they didn't have answers. What did you want answers to that they didn't provide them?

SCHUMER: There were so many questions, Jake. When you emerged from that briefing, you got really worried because they don't have a plan. They knew they wanted to take Maduro. That's step one. Steps two through 10, they have no answers for, such as, how many troops will we need on the ground? How much will it cost? How long should it last? Do you have plans to go to other countries like Colombia or Cuba or even Greenland? Is Stephen Miller going to be involved?

Let me just say, it was a classified briefing. I can't tell you exactly what they said, but every one of those answers would disappoint almost all of America. They just didn't have their act together. It was almost a back-of-the-envelope operation, and it was really troubling that to go through, to do what they did, and everyone wants to get rid of Maduro.

He's a bad guy. You know, they're glad that he's gone, rather. But it was to not have thought this out. We've been through endless wars in Iraq, in Libya. Trump campaigned on endless wars. And maybe the worst thing of all, or just as bad, he's neglecting what the American people want, Jake, which is lower costs. Health care costs lower, housing costs lower, grocery costs lower. And he's off on these foreign adventures. That's not what America wants. And that's not America first, which is what he campaigned on.

TAPPER: You mentioned Stephen Miller. He was on the show yesterday. He told me that military options to acquire Greenland are not off the table. The White House press secretary also reiterated a message like that today. Not off the table. What do you think about that? Obviously, I know a lot of leaders in Europe are very distressed about that, given that --

SCHUMER: It's absolutely nuts. We're going to send troops into a NATO ally. Denmark owns Greenland. We're going to send troops to Colombia. We're going to police the world when there's so many people hurting at home who are worried about their cost of living, and Trump is doing nothing about it and engaging in these foreign adventures without planning, without forethought. Again, when you sat in that room, you thought it was sort of the back of the envelope.

They were just sort of coming up with answers. I'll give you one example. Who do they want to take Maduro's place? You know, now, Trump says he's going to be -- he's going to run the country. But who is going to be the leader there? They had no good answer. They don't like the vice president. There are people under the vice president who might be even worse than Maduro.

How can you do a serious operation like this, which risks American lives, without any planning or forethought? It almost seems like Donald Trump just popped into his head and all the yes people around him just said, go ahead.

TAPPER: Let me turn to domestic issues, if I can. Democrats shut down the government for 43 days last year in an effort to extend COVID-era health insurance subsidies. Those have now obviously expired. Millions of Americans are going to see their insurance costs rise this month. Do Democrats have a plan to address that? One, a plan that can actually pass Congress, get Republican support. And are you willing to rule out another shutdown over that issue?

SCHUMER: Look, the best way to get this done is for the House on Thursday to pass the three-year extension that Hakeem Jeffries put together in a discharge petition. And then to have Thune put it on the floor and it will pass. That's the only way to get this done. We're not going to get health care done if the Republicans stay in shambles. They don't have their own plan. They're divided on every type of issue, whether to privatize it. Thune and Johnson, the two leaders, said they wouldn't even extend health care benefits by a day, let alone a month, a year, three months, three years. So until the Republicans get their act together, we're not going to get anything done on health care.

TAPPER: Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your time.

SCHUMER: Thanks, Jake.

[17:49:20]

TAPPER: Coming up next, the message today from the head of the Republican Party, that would be President Trump, in the 2026 fight for control of Congress.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now we're going to make history and break records with the epic midterm victory. And we sure as hell are having a successful presidency. I will say that.

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TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, President Trump kicking off the 2026 campaign season today, rallying House Republicans, bolding, predicting his party will defy historical precedents and keep control of Congress in the November midterms.

Here now is our panel. Xochitl, let me start with you. If Republicans do not pull off that epic midterm victory that Trump predicted, he did make this warning, should Democrats win. Take a listen.

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TRUMP: You got to win the midterms because if we don't win the midterms, it's just going to be, I mean, they'll find a reason to impeach me. I'll get impeached.

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TAPPER: Which prediction is more likely? Do you think Republicans win or Democrats win and impeach Trump? Those are your only two choices.

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: OK, Democrats win, but I will. I'm not sure they're going to impeach Trump, to be honest with you. What I think is funny about this whole thing is not. If Democrats win, this could happen to our country, maybe potentially painting another picture. It's like, no, it is about me. It is always about him. And you can tell that he is nervous.

He hasn't had any checks within this administration within his first year, whether it's the I.G.'s, you know, who he fired or whether it is Congress. And for the first time, if Democrats win back the House, he will have checks. And that is something that he doesn't like. And he's worried about it's not just impeachment. I think that was a signal that was like, wait a minute. They're going to look in under the hood of the car to see exactly what is happening in this administration. And that worries him.

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TAPPER: So the other tell even perhaps even more so was Congressman Dent, what he had to say about the fact that even though he feels he is doing an amazing job, he acknowledged that polls do not suggest that the American people, other than his base, agree with him. Here's how he put it.

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TRUMP: I wish you could explain to me what the hell is going on with the mind of the public, because we have the right policy. (END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, Congressman, what's going on? What the hell is going on with the mind of the public?

CHALIE DENT (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, the mind of the public is such that they're worried about the cost of everything. That's the first thing. And I think sometimes when the President is off, you know, engaged in foreign adventures in Venezuela and obsessed with the ballroom and renaming the Kennedy Center, that's really not what the American people have in mind. That doesn't really affect them directly.

But they do care about the cost of everything. They care about what they're going to be paying in their health insurance premiums. They care about the grocery store and housing prices. That's what they're focused on. And it seems that the President is distracted with all these other obsessions and inside adventures. So I think that's what's hurting him more than anything else.

TAPPER: He gave his -- himself last month, President Trump, an A plus plus plus plus plus plus, six pluses, on the economy. Take a listen to how he scored House Republicans.

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TRUMP: The most successful House Republican majority in decades. And we did it with not a big majority. I announced I was coming over here and I said, I love those Republicans. And I meant that I said, except for maybe a couple, a couple I don't love. But the people in this room, I don't know if those couple are here.

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TAPPER: Do you agree that this was the most successful House Republican majority?

DENT: Well, OK, they passed a reconciliation bill, and that was pretty much it. There hasn't been much done other than that. And by the way, he's made that comment before. I've been in audiences when he was president where he'd say, you're a great group of people. A couple of people I don't like.

TAPPER: Back then, they were going to talk about you.

DENT: Yes, me and Jeff Flake were standing next to each other. He's like, he's talking about us. But the -- but, look, let's face it. The American public is -- the President has an approval rating in the low 40s for a reason. And on the economy, it's probably around 35, 36. And that's his challenge. That is his problem. And he's got to be able to handle it.

And it's affecting Republicans down ballot. They all know that you have 24, 25 Republicans not seeking reelection in the House for a reason. They know this is shaping up to be a really nasty cycle. And you can't change that with just words or rhetoric. You have to change it with actions. And I don't see anything on the horizon right now that's going to change the underlying narrative.

TAPPER: Xochitl, are Democrats meeting the moment? And I like -- I'm old enough to remember. I'm not sure if you are, but Charlie is when Nancy Pelosi in the minority would be presenting not the contract with America, but her version of that. Six things, six messages. This is what we're running on. Five things, this is what we're running on both times. I'm thinking about when she reclaimed the majority for the Democrats. Are Democrats doing that or do they not even need to?

HINOJOSA: I think people -- I think we were at -- it was a slow start at the beginning of the year. I do think that the Democratic Party putting their health or putting their foot down on health care and the economy and really signaling that that is what they're going to run on in November is finally we are speaking with one cohesive message, which you never see that from the Democratic Party. And so I do think that the Democratic Party is finally understanding this is what Americans want and this is what they have to discuss.

TAPPER: We should note that we noted earlier in the show, today marks five years since that horrific attack on the Capitol. What was your reaction today to seeing Enrique Tarrio, who Trump pardoned from a 22- year sentence for his role in planning that riot, march back to the Capitol today?

HINOJOSA: It was heartbreaking to me and it was heartbreaking. We prosecuted all those cases and we did it because you wanted to serve as a deterrence. You wanted to keep people off the streets who have committed those crimes. These are violent criminals who went after our law enforcement. And to see them almost wearing it as a badge of honor as they march towards the Capitol was something that should horrify everyone. Honestly, it should horrify every Republican and Democrat member of Congress. They were the victims that day.

And so honestly, I was text messaging former Justice Department officials and I was like, please avoid downtown.

TAPPER: Yes.

HINOJOSA: Because who knows what they're going to do to protect those --

TAPPER: Congressman, whatever happened to the Republican Party in back the blue.

DENT: You know, what happened on January 6th was an abomination. And everybody knows it, who was there. They understand it. It was an assault on the rule of law. It was an assault on the constitutional order. And look, there are a lot of Republicans out there. I'm part of a group. Our Republican legacy talks about these issues that we need to get the Republican Party back to a place where we do believe in the rule of law, unity, fiscal discipline, opening markets and getting rid of crazy tariffs. I mean, there are a lot of us out there not saying, going back to where were, I'm saying, but get to a better place than where we are now. This is. This is simply untenable.

[18:00:05] TAPPER: Thanks to both of you. Really appreciate it.