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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Minnesota Governor Puts National Guard On Standby Amid Tension After ICE Shooting; Trump Administration Defends ICE Officer Who Shot And Killed Minneapolis Woman; Mayor Karen Bass (D), Is Interviewed About Los Angeles Slowly Recovering From Destructive Wildfires. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired January 08, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

MAJOR GENERAL RANDY MANNER, U.S. ARMY (RET.): In this particular case, I believe that the use of the guard in coordination with state and local police could actually help provide a buffer and lead to deescalation because they are structured, they are organized, they will be respectful of the protesters.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right. Randy Manner, very much appreciate your expertise. Thanks very much to my panel for spending the hour with us. It was a very active hour and we're going to continue this live coverage right here on CNN. The Lead with Jake Tapper starts right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. The breaking news in our National Lead, growing tensions in Minneapolis after yesterday's shooting by an ICE officer that killed 37-year-old Renee Nicole Good things are unfolding quickly today. So let's bring you up to speed where we stand at 5:00 p.m. Eastern in Washington, DC.

Minneapolis officials say that federal officials are now blocking them from investigating the shooting. The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension was all set to conduct a joint investigation with the FBI into the shooting until the FBI told that state agency that the U.S. attorney's office has now reversed course and will no longer allow state officials access to the evidence.

Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, a Democrat who just announced he's put the state National Guard on standby to support local law enforcement, said that getting a fair outcome in this investigation would feel difficult.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D) MINNESOTA: People in positions of power have already passed judgment from the president to the vice president to Kristi Noem have stood and told you things that are verifiably false.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The Trump administration continues to staunchly defend the ICE officer involved in the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: President Trump and his entire administration stand fully behind the heroic men and women of ICE.

KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRTARY: This law enforcement officer followed his training and that he defended and acted in defense of his life and those around him.

J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: The idea that this was not justified is absurd. When you look at all angles of that video, it is very clear that her vehicle went right for the guy. She actually collided with him and then that's of course when he fired his shots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That certainty, that adherence to a black and white knowledge of what happened sounds a bit different from what we heard from one Republican congressman, a Trump supporting former fire chief on our show yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CARLOS GIMENEZ (R-FL): I have questions about this one and so I try to give police officers the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. But those are disturbing images and I do have questions about this incident.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Congressman Gimenez, Republican of Florida, is not alone. Lots of people have questions and in fact, multiple videos of the shooting reviewed by CNN suggest anything but the black and white interpretation that Vice President Vance suggested exactly what took place before the shooting remains unclear at this time.

In just a moment, we're going to bring you a detailed step by step review of the videos. All of this, of course, has set off a wave of protests in Minneapolis. Unfortunately, some fights have broke out between protesters and counter protesters.

Attorney General Pam Bondi today tweeted a rather pointed warning on that front saying, quote, peacefully protesting is a sacred American right protected by the First Amendment. Obstructing, impeding or attacking federal law enforcement is a federal crime. So is damaging federal property. And if you cross that red line, you will be arrested and prosecuted. Do not test our resolve.

And remember, behind all of this, of course, is the woman who was killed, Renee Nicole Good, described as a poet, a mother and a partner whose killing has shocked her family. Much more on her this hour as well. But let's start with CNN's Ryan Young, who's on the ground in Minneapolis. Ryan, tell us what you've been seeing and hearing today.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake Tapper, we've been here since about 6:50am I can tell you when the protesters initially arrived here, you saw a lot of people crying, a lot of people upset and angry. But we've seen those emotions sort of explode over into something completely different.

You see the remnants of the protesters who are left behind here who are cheering as people drive by. But if you look a little beyond here, you can see the Border Patrol agents who've been standing here in the phalanx for the entire day. The reason why is they're protecting these gates because as agents try to come and go, a lot of times these protesters have been blocking the way.

One thing that happened in the last half hour, someone did throw some Gatorade bottles toward these Border Patrol agents. And when that did happen, you saw the reaction from these Border Patrol agents really swarming into a parking lot and making several arrests. So that has happened on five or six different occasions.

As we show you some of the video from today, we're talking about some intense scuffles where we've seen people body slammed to the ground. We've seen people being detained.

[17:05:05]

Now, a lot of that is because at some point some of the folks in the crowd have been throwing things at the Border Patrol agents. Earlier, they set up a lot stronger of a perimeter to stop anybody from throwing items at them.

But as the day has gone on, we've seen the crowd change. There are people who are protesting here who made sure that as they considered them outsiders would not continue to agitate those Border Patrol agents.

Add one other thing here. Greg Bovino himself walked out here and started walking up and down the line. And that only energized the crowd even more. But as you see right now, this is what is left of the protest. This small group here.

We know the next hour and a half or so there will be another protest throughout the city where people will be marching. We've talked to several people who say this right here is the reason why they get off the couch after they watch that video. They heard the administration. They are very angry. They want their voices heard. But today at certain points, it has gotten out of hand. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Ryan Young in Minneapolis, thanks so much. CNN's Tom Foreman is here in studio with me now. Tom, give us a closer look of the videos of the shooting so we can analyze how the sequence of event lines up with what federal officials are claiming happened here.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There are so many to look at. They all tell parts of the same story. I will say there are none of them that present clear evidence that this officer was ever struck. Might have been, but you can't really tell.

Let's take a look at one important video here that I think we have to look at. This is one that has come out that we've been very interested in. Look at this car sitting right here. This is Renee Good's car. In this video it spends more than four minutes that we know of for about around four minutes in this position. We don't know when it started before that.

So if you thought she was just driving by, this video would suggest otherwise. It sits here letting some cars pass, some seemingly not. You start seeing people walk around it here. Included in that part is actually the officer in question here. If you look at this portion right here, you can see that he's the man who's starting to walk around the side.

TAPPER: Looks like he's holding a phone to film it.

FOREMAN: Yes, he's holding a phone. A woman behind him is holding a phone to film him, but he is circling around what would be sort of the blind side of her car because you see her arm hanging out. She's been waving at cars to come past in front of her vehicle here.

Then we move into the timeline of this that really matters. We're going to start this at the point where the officers are out of their car, approaching her car. To give you an idea of how fast that part came about here.

If you'll notice, here they come out of the car. They're approaching. About one second has passed here. They go up, they start yanking at the door. Now we're at about two seconds. The officer in question is invisible back here. We saw.

TAPPER: He's behind the car over there somewhere.

FOREMAN: He circled around here.

TAPPER: Yes.

FOREMAN: He's coming around toward the front of the car. He still has his phone in his hand. This will happen very fast. It's hard to watch, but in a very short period of time, you'll see her tires angle the other way as he comes over here. And in sort of a flash, he puts down his phone, he pulls out his gun. As her tail lights change to show that she is in drive. This happens very, very rapidly, but at the angle of her wheels at that moment.

TAPPER: So we should be looking at the wheels and also the. It's a lot to the shooter.

FOREMAN: I'll see if I can stop it at that very moment as it goes forward. As you see him start coming around the side of the vehicle, if I can get it to start playing again here as he comes around, there he is. And you see he just pulled his gun. They're still here.

TAPPER: And her tire is turning. FOREMAN: Yes. Right. Lights have already changed. She's changed here.

And now she starts moving forward. We're four seconds into this, four seconds in, and he starts coming forward with this. She's moving forward. Bang, bang. First shot, two more shots there, and on they go. And this whole thing is done in nine seconds.

TAPPER: Now, we don't know which of those shots was the fatal shot, but it does seem potentially important if the one that he shot in front of her when he thought, right, presumably, that she was headed towards him, whether that was the fatal shot or the ones where obviously he's next to her --

FOREMAN: Shooting through the side the driver's window.

TAPPER: -- To the side window, where --

FOREMAN: Of course, the vehicle is not approaching him anymore --

TAPPER: Right.

FOREMAN: -- maybe parallel to him.

TAPPER: Right.

FOREMAN: But it's not approaching him anymore. And the bullet hole in the window is pretty low to have been something that hit her in the head. Bullets can behave strangely, but nonetheless, that's the other part we know about it. And then afterward, the other thing we see is that this is right afterward and he is walking away here.

TAPPER: This is him.

FOREMAN: Yes. Remember though, this is a man who the president, the vice president and the secretary of homeland security has said was hit by a car.

TAPPER: Well, not Trump said he was run over.

FOREMAN: Right, Run over by a car.

TAPPER: And had to go to the hospital. Here he is walking.

FOREMAN: So here he's walking along and he starts gesturing and yelling for them to say, hey, we need to get an ambulance here for this person. He walks back that way to join the rest of them. That is the aftermath of this. And you can see him walking again there.

TAPPER: He's checking his phone. He doesn't appear to be in any pain, at least as far as we can tell.

FOREMAN: Yes. So you put all these videos together, it is a little hard to establish all the details of the story. But what you do not have here, I mean, here's another way of looking at it. If you imagine the person in the car to be a police officer and the people approaching to be protesters, would a protester have been justified in saying, that officer was threatening me with his car? That's I think what a judge, a jury investigator, somebody have to probably have to look at some point.

TAPPER: All right, Tom Foreman, fascinating stuff. Thank you so much. Let's bring in CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller. John, when you look at the video, what stands out to you?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: What stands out to me is the tactics. I mean, across law enforcement in America in the past 10 to 15 years, there has been this effort to get police officers to try and do these encounters with cars where you don't position yourself in front of the vehicle, where you don't fire at a moving vehicle, and all that seems to be lacking here.

And you know, we know that ICE has done a tremendous amount of hiring. We know that they cut their training program from six months to six weeks. We know there's a lot of people who are probably under trained who have gone through that rapid process.

But according to the secretary, this particular ICE agent isn't one of them. She says he's been on the job -- he's been on the job 10 years. He has a tremendous amount of experience. And in June of this year, he had a similar encounter where he was involved in a stop with other ICE agents and FBI agents and reached into a car to try and take a suspect into custody. The suspect was drove off with him, hanging out of the car, dragged him 100 yards. He was injured in that incident.

So you would think two things. One, after that he might be really reticent about anything involving an automobile that could take off like that. Or two, the opposite, which is when he saw his partner hanging onto the door of that car as it started to move, that what happened to him might be about to happen to his colleague.

We can't get into his head, but getting into his head when this comes to the investigation part, what was his perception in that moment that made him feel that those shots, each one of the three was necessary, is going to carry a great deal of weight in their decision as to whether this is criminal or not.

That said, the highest ranking officials involved in this have already said they're certain it's not, which certainly puts an influence on any determination by investigators.

TAPPER: Well, that's my next question about the investigation, because it does seem unusual, A, that everybody from the president and the vice president and the secretary of homeland security have also, they've all cleared him of any wrongdoing without an investigation.

And B, Minnesota law enforcement officials say the FBI is not going to work with them on the investigation. They're blocking local officials from the investigation despite initially saying there would be a joint investigation. How common are either of those?

MILLER: So not common. And we've heard two versions of this today which are in conflict. One, when they've been faced with hard questions about, well, what exactly had this woman allegedly been involved with prior to this? What was her earlier contact with those agents, information that they claim to have. They cautioned people to say, let's not jump to conclusions. We have to wait for the investigation. You know, let the process take hold.

But when you say, was it a justified shooting? They say, well, it was and we're sure of it, and here's why. So it's a bit curious. As far as the investigation goes yesterday, the FBI came to the scene. They took over the crime scene. They took over the handling of the evidence. And they said that they would be working with the Minnesota State Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.

And today the United States Attorney's office, when the state people came and said, let's start going through this evidence together. They have a special force investigation division that specializes investigating law enforcement involved shootings in Minnesota. When they said, let's start talking about interviewing the witnesses together, they were told that the FBI is going to lead the investigation and have control of the evidence and basically that their assistance wasn't needed.

We have an FBI where part of their mantra, part of what Kash Patel tells us in every social media post, is that their highest priority is their partnership with state and local officials. Just not in this case.

TAPPER: Not in this case. John Miller, thank you so much. As we monitor the situation in Minneapolis this evening, we're also going to go live to the White House where we are hearing a strong position from the Trump administration in the wake of yesterday's shooting.

And later on The Lead, one of the New York Times reporters who sat with President Trump for nearly two hours, what Trump revealed about his plans for Venezuela, or lack thereof, and the phone call he took in the middle of that interview, and he let the Times reporters listen in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:18:46]

TAPPER: We're back with the breaking news and our National Lead, Vice President J.D. Vance making a rare appearance at today's White House briefing, defending in no uncertain terms the ICE agent who shot and killed that 37-year-old woman, a U.S. citizen in Minnesota yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: The reason this woman is dead is because she tried to ram somebody with her car and that guy acted in self-defense. That is why she lost her life. And that is the tragedy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Of course, others watch that video and see a woman trying to drive away, not one trying to hurt an ICE officer. Let's get right to CNN's Kristen Holmes is at the White House for us. Kristen, several times reporters asked the vice president very direct questions and we also heard the vice president basically just stick to that message.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. And you know, you're mentioning exactly what so many people are concerned about, which is this idea that if the federal government, this is exactly what Vice President J.D. Vance said today, completely backs this idea that the only thing that happened here was that a woman rammed him and this was self-defense, then how is this going to be a fair federal investigation?

And I do want to play just a little bit more of him doubling down on this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: This is politics. And often Republicans get in arguments with the press about things. I understand that. I think it's really irresponsible for you guys to go out there and imply or tell the American people that a guy who defended himself from being rammed by an automobile is guilty of murder. Be a little bit more careful. We're going to talk about toning down the temperature, which I know the President wants to do and I certainly want to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now he also said at one point, what you see is what you get in this circumstance when asked about the investigation and Jake, I specifically asked him, if you are saying the entire federal government backs this ICE officer, then what is being investigated on the federal level? Are they looking into him at all? And he quickly said DHS is doing an investigation and then change the subject.

But at the same time that this was happening, that Vance was up there reiterating this support for this idea that she was ramming him and he was self-defense. We were seeing an interview coming out with Good's, the victim's ex-husband, who was essentially saying that Good had never really been part of any protest that he had known of, that she wasn't an activist of any kind and that she had just dropped off her six-year-old child at school. And that's why she was in that neighborhood.

To be clear, I don't know the answer as to why she was in that neighborhood. I don't know whose story is true in this case. But that's why you have an investigation. That's why you have people who are out there on the ground piecing together a narrative, speaking to officials, to eyewitnesses to put this together, to eventually come to a conclusion.

And the concern that you're starting to hear, and one that was not answered when we were pressing the Vice President was if that conclusion has already been reached, then what are you looking into and how could this be fair? Because you've already determined the outcome.

TAPPER: We've also heard from President Trump as this story continues to develop. What did he have to say? HOLMES: We saw that post yesterday, we talked all about it. The fact

that he immediately said he watched the video. He said this was domestic terrorism. But then he also talked to those reporters that you mentioned that sat down for this two-hour long interview with the New York Times. And here's what he said. He said, I want to see nobody get shot. I want to see nobody screaming and trying to run over policemen either. She behaved horribly. And then she ran him over. She didn't try to run him over, she ran him over.

It is clear again that the administration is backing this ICE agent fully, saying that this was domestic terrorism, saying that this was her fault, that she had tried to ram this agent. They are now, you know, you hear President Trump to Vice President Vance. They want to make clear that these agents that they've put out in these cities have the support of the administration.

TAPPER: All right, Kristen Holmes, thanks so much. And a reminder, we're going to talk to David Sanger from the New York Times, one of the reporters who spoke with President Trump in that New York Times interview in just a few minutes.

As we hear this assertion, these assertions from the White House, what we're learning about the training of ICE agents who are deployed to these major cities. We're going to get into that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:26:47]

TAPPER: We're back with more of the breaking news. We're showing you live images now from Minneapolis protests continuing on the ground there after yesterday's deadly shooting of a woman by an ICE agent inside the Department of Homeland Security. Sources tell CNN that some officials are privately expressing shock at how this ICE officer immediately responded in that moment.

Here with us now is CNN's Priscilla Alvarez. And Priscilla, Secretary Noem called the shooting an act of domestic. I'm sorry. Called the woman's actions involved in the shooting an act of domestic terrorism. Calling the woman a terrorist. Reiterated the agent was following his training when he shot her in her car.

What do we know about this agent in particular? And also the type of training that he's likely to have received if he is Indeed like a 10 year veteran, as she has said.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We know that he is not new to the force. Why? Because according to a senior Homeland Security official, he has 10 years of experience. He was with immigration And Customs Enforcement, the specific branch that does arrests and deportations of undocumented immigrants. And of that branch, the Special Response Team. So that is what we know of history at ICE in terms of what his training would have been.

Well, in 2023, the Department of Homeland Security had released updated policy about use of force. And I'm going to quote it for you. Part of it says DHS' LEOs, law enforcement officers, may use deadly force only when necessary. That is, when the LEO has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to the LEO or to another person.

Here's what it also goes on to say as you read through this policy. And you cannot use of force to prevent escape of a subject or to disable a vehicle. Here is where the context is also important and it's what the administration has been pointing to. This officer, last year in June in Minnesota, had been dragged by a vehicle in the course of an operation by the subject of that undocumented immigrant who the administration said has criminal records. It was about 50 yards of dragging and he had to get 33 stitches. He was hospitalized, then discharged.

The administration has also said that this woman was impeding operations earlier on. But again, Jake, we are all assessing, as the administration seems to be assessing, the videos of what we are seeing of that shooting.

So what led to that exact moment that sources tell me they still have so many questions about that, even internally, because according to the training, what is it that he saw that would have presented that immediate danger? The DHS is saying it's the vehicle and that was being used as a weapon. But were there other elements at play? And those are the answers that we would expect to see in an investigation.

TAPPER: Well, in the invest -- let's talk about that because there are a lot of questions right now about whether any investigation, I mean, Governor Walz is raising this, whether any investigation actually will be legitimate given the fact that the president, the vice president and the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security have already cleared this officer. They said he's fine.

Presumably an investigation would actually figure out whether this ICE officer had been successfully and well reintegrated back into the force after that horrible incident last June. But will this investigation be able to achieve any, any actual finding of fact?

[17:30:01]

ALVAREZ: So I think it's what you heard from earlier from Kristen and asking the Vice President this exact question. They are maintaining there's an investigation. But they've already drawn that firm conclusion that he was absolved of his actions because he was, according to the secretary, doing -- conducting himself according to training.

Now, again, typically in the department, there are investigations that occur in addition to any other investigation and they take a long time, Jake.

TAPPER: Yes.

ALVAREZ: They have to review so much evidence.

TAPPER: Months or years. ALVAREZ: Correct. This isn't the first time they've had to look at someone's conduct. But I also want to note, Jake, because the -- there's so many officers that came into Minneapolis over recent days as part of this massive immigration operation. And one of the federal law enforcement sources told me that in the days prior there were extensive briefings about potential agitators.

And what they told officers is if you see something getting violent call for backup, call local police. So there were briefings on this exact thing prior. And it is that -- all of that, all the totality of circumstances that would have to be reviewed in an investigation about this officer's conduct.

TAPPER: Priscilla Alvarez, thank you so much.

Coming up, what we're learning about Renee Nicole Good, the woman killed by the ICE agent yesterday. What led her to this Minneapolis scene in the first place?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:35:07]

TAPPER: And we're back with the breaking news in our National Lead. Renee Nicole Good, that's the name of the woman who was shot and killed by an ICE officer in Minneapolis yesterday. She described herself on social media as a, "poet and writer and wife and mom." CNN's Omar Jimenez is on the ground in Minnesota learning more about who she was and what happened in her final moments.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mother of three, a partner and a poet, 37-year-old Renee Nicole Good, as described by those who knew her. Her neighbors now mourning their loss.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we can help, we're going to help you, you know, it's -- that's the community.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): She was shot and killed near the site of an immigration enforcement operation, Wednesday, after dropping off her six-year-old son at school, according to "The Associated Press." Multiple videos obtained by CNN show the moments before she was shot at about 9.30 a.m. that morning. Video shows her car driving up to the scene about three minutes before the deadly confrontation with ICE agents.

JIMENEZ: This is the South Minneapolis neighborhood where Renee Good lived. There's just a few blocks from where the shooting happened and a day removed from the shooting. It's quiet. We get the sense that some in this neighborhood are on edge, heartbroken over what happened so close to them here.

One of the neighbors we spoke to who didn't want to appear on camera describes Renee Good's family as a really sweet family, that her children would ask to pet the dogs that the neighbors would walk here in the community. And we get the sense that Renee Good wasn't in this community that long, but clearly already made an impression on many here.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): While Clark Hoelscher didn't know Good personally, they live a few houses down and would see her kids sidewalk drawings during the summer.

JIMENEZ: When we were talking earlier, you know, about Renee and about her kids, you were getting emotional.

CLARK HOELSCHER, NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENT: Yes.

JIMENEZ: What was what was going on? What were you thinking?

HOELSCHER: Oh, I mean, I just I'm a parent. I've helped raise five children. I have two, you know, kiddos that are my own. And just I can't imagine like that they, you know, came home and their mom, you know, isn't going to be there for them anymore.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Good was a Colorado native who moved to Minnesota last year, living in the Twin Cities with her partner. Of her three children, according to "The AP," a six-year-old boy whose father, a military veteran, died about three years ago, according to "The Washington Post."

And two other children, 15 and 12-year-olds from her first marriage, her ex-husband told "The AP." He said she was a devoted Christian who took part in youth mission trips when she was younger. And she briefly lived in Kansas City before moving last year. Her former neighbor there says she wasn't a terrorist nor an extremist, as she's been described.

JOAN ROSE, FORMER NEIGHBOR OF VICTIM: That was just a mom who loved her kids, loved her spouse.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): She graduated from Old Dominion University in December 2020 with a degree in English. A growing memorial near the site of the shooting now bearing posters with her image, candles and flowers left in the snow where she died.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ: And we've been monitoring the protests that have broken out really in response to what's happened. So that vigil is at the site of where the shooting happened. Where we are is a little bit of a drive away, but outside a federal building where we've been monitoring these protests that have sort of swelled and shrunk over the course of the day.

At one point, just a few minutes ago, someone threw something at Border Patrol. They ran into the crowd and took down at least one person here. But it's all part of why we just heard Governor Tim Walz activate the National Guard on standby, to put them on standby to assist local law enforcement out of an abundance of caution as they monitor protests here in the city a day removed from the shooting, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Omar Jimenez in Minnesota, thank you so much.

Another look in Minneapolis, those are Border Patrol agents behind the rail there with protesters on the other side. We're going to continue to monitor the scene.

[17:39:09]

We're also going to talk to the New York Times reporter or one of the four New York Times reporters who spent nearly two hours interviewing President Trump at the White House. What Trump revealed about his plans for Venezuela, or lack thereof, and the phone call he took as reporters sat in and listened to his side of the conversation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, it has been an exhausting year and we've only made it fully through the seven days of it. Remember these dates, January 3rd, January 5th, January 7th. Last Saturday, the U.S. removed Venezuela's president from office in a major military operation. On Monday, Maduro and his wife appeared in U.S. court on drug charges. Just yesterday, in Minneapolis, an ICE agent shot and killed a 37- year-old woman.

And all this while, the Trump administration has repeatedly threatened to take over Greenland. In response, one social media user has posted, "Thanks for the free seven-day trial of 2026. I'd like to unsubscribe from whatever the hell this is."

Here now, CNN's Jamie Gangel and New York Times White House and national security correspondent David Sanger who is part of the four- man team, four-person team, that just interviewed President Trump for about two hours. David, thanks so much for joining us. Here's what President Trump said about the limits of his power as commander-in- chief as he sees it.

He says, "Yes, there is one thing," that can limit his power. "My own morality. My own mind. It's the only thing that can stop me." That is quite a view of the powers of the presidency.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It certainly is. And it was one of the more revealing moments. You know, you had that remarkable exchange back and forth with one of his aides, Stephen Miller, on the question of power and the limits on the presidency. And he basically said, this is no time for legal niceties.

It's a time for raw power. And we were sort of probing to try to figure out, does the president sign up to that? And he worded it a little more softly. But the essential answer was, yes. I'm not particularly interested in international law. He said, depends on how you interpret it.

[17:45:16]

He said he wasn't particularly interested in treaties. In fact, at one point, I asked him if he was concerned about the fact that our last remaining arms control treaty with Russia is going to expire a month from, I think, today or yesterday. And he said, not particularly.

You know, like, we can negotiate a better one, you know, over time. This will be the first time in 50 years we're without arms control treaties. So he is a man who wants to live without constraints. And I think he sees it in the international sphere, Jake. He's got more ability to do that than at home where he's got the Supreme Court and federal judges and Congress and others hemming him in.

TAPPER: Yes. Jamie, what do you think?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: I think you have to take him seriously and literally.

TAPPER: Yes.

GANGEL: And Venezuela is an example of that. Look, when we look back at Trump 1.0, what did we call it? The chaos presidency. Now he is, but there were people around him, General Kelly, General Mattis, people who would say no to him. Trump 2.0, he is emboldened and there is no one there who will say no to him.

TAPPER: And David, during your interview, the situation in Minneapolis was unfolding. The President posted on social media his reactions to the video. You were there when he watched the video. Tell us about that.

SANGER: So he had posted this before we came into the Oval Office. And we asked him about it.

TAPPER: I mean, just to be clear, he had declared that the officer had been run over and had gone to the hospital.

SANGER: Right.

TAPPER: And, you know, whether or not the car nicked the officer, we don't know. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but like, he was not run over.

SANGER: That's right. So, we pushed back a little bit. Zolan Kanno- Youngs raised this with him, he said, well, it looked to me like he was run over. And then he called for an aide who came over with a laptop and we all gathered around the Resolute Desk and watched it in slow motion. And several of us said, President, it doesn't look to us like anybody's run over there.

And he did kind of back off then. It was kind of like real-time fact- checking with the President, which you, you know, don't usually have the moment to go do. And then he admitted that he was a bit concerned about some of the things that ICE was doing. He didn't criticize this particular one.

But as the conversation turned later to other events, it turned out he had been quite angry when they arrested all of the Hyundai workers who had been at that plant in Georgia and detained them and sent them back to South Korea, even though they were here beyond in many cases some of their visas.

TAPPER: And Jamie, on Venezuela, there's an exchange when President Trump was asked, how long does he plan to run, "Venezuela?" President Trump, let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Only time will tell.

TYLER PAGER, NYT REPORTER: Like three months, six months, a year, longer?

TRUMP: I would say much longer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I would say much longer.

GANGEL: So, do you remember back when he said, Russia, are you listening?

TAPPER: Yes.

GANGEL: I would say this is another version of that, which is, Russia, you know, if I can do this, if I can go in and run something for a couple of years, well, how do you have the moral high ground to say to Russia, you know, don't make a deal with Ukraine or China with Taiwan?

TAPPER: David --

SANGER: We asked him about that straight up. And I said, if you're Xi Jinping, how do you read this? And he said, well, I don't think he'd go into Taiwan while I'm president.

TAPPER: Do you sense that there actually is a plan for Venezuela? Because if there is one, it has not been laid out to the American people or, according to those briefed on Capitol Hill, to Congress.

SANGER: Only the vaguest of one. I asked him if there had been models that he had looked at for occupation. And maybe he misheard the question or maybe he interpreted it differently than I had intended it. But he gave me the models for U.S. operations like the kind that removed Maduro and was describing how effective this one was. I think they gave a lot more focus to getting Maduro out than how they would run the country day-to-day.

TAPPER: That reminds me of a lot of different military operatives.

SANGER: You and I covered this together from the White House once, right?

TAPPER: Yes.

SANGER: It was a few years ago. But what was fascinating about this one to my mind is it's an occupation without really being there. It's sort of a virtual or remote control one where you've got this big armada that's sitting offshore and the message is you're going to do things our way or they're coming back again. And you wonder how long that can last especially when you are dealing with a government that was basically Maduro's pits.

[17:50:11]

TAPPER: And Jamie this has been a whirlwind seven days. What do you think could come next?

GANGEL: Look, who the heck knows but I think, you know, to where you started with that tweet about unsubscribe, you know, buckle up. I do think the one question is going to be Republicans voted to release the Epstein files. It was a major break. When they start seeing what he's doing at a certain point they want to get reelected, you know, the midterms are coming, '28 is coming. Is there a point where they break with him again?

TAPPER: Talking about Epstein files we're going to be interviewing Congressman Thom Massie the Republican from Kentucky who helped push that Epstein files release bill in Congress just a few minutes away from there. Jamie Gangel, David Sanger, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

More breaking news just moments ago, the House of Representatives approved a bill that the speaker did not want to be voted on, a three- year extension of the Obamacare health care subsidies. Democrats pushed for it, 17 Republicans bucked. Republican leadership and voted for it as well. You're going to remember of course the fight over funding of these subsidies led to the longest government shutdown in American history, 43 days. We'll have much more on the vote, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:55:19]

TAPPER: In our National Lead, amid all the news happening this week, we should also note it has been one year since that series of deadly wildfires tore through Los Angeles. The Palisades fire and the Eaton fire wiped out entire neighborhoods, killing more than 30 people. The rebuilding process has been incredibly grueling. Thousands either lost their homes or whose homes were damaged are navigating all sorts of issues, insurance, costly permitting requirements, burdensome credit card debt. Others forced to leave the cost just too expensive to rebuild. The mayor of Los Angeles, Democrat Karen Bass, joins us now.

Madam Mayor, thanks for joining us. On top of this expensive and slow recovery process, it's also emotionally taxing. People are still, many of them, outraged. Many who believe the fires could have been prevented or the response could have been much better blame county officials, the fire department. As the mayor who oversaw this devastation, what do you say to people who blame you for being outside the country, for example, when the fire started or for the budget cuts that affected the city's fire department and on and on?

MAYOR KAREN BASS (D), LOS ANGELES: Sure. Well, thanks for having me on, Jake. And let me just be clear. The part that is represented, that I represent in the city of Los Angeles is only Pacific Palisades. But you are absolutely correct. I mean, this was devastating. People are grieving and traumatized. And remember, people are just coming off of the holidays.

So even though compared to other fires, the process has been going along very quickly. We have over 400 homes that are actively under construction now. Over 800 homes have been approved. And so building is happening.

But as you just described, people have a myriad of problems from the insurance industry that was canceling plans even before the fires to now they have to deal with their mortgages. And they've been out renting for a year.

So I've been advocating for banks to extend the mortgage relief called forbearance for another two to three years. The Bank of America jumped up right away and have extended their forbearance, trying to advocate for them to add that time on the back end of the mortgage. So if you had a 30-year mortgage, you now have a 33-year mortgage.

I also signed over 13 executive directives to expedite the city bureaucracy because I don't want the city bureaucracy to be a hindrance. We talk to the community members all the time. And when we find out that somebody has hit a roadblock or a speed bump, we jump on it immediately. We're trying to do everything we can to make people from the Palisades be whole.

TAPPER: "The Los Angeles Times" reported that months after the Palisades fire, a draft of the Los Angeles Fire Department's after action report was sent to your office for refinements. "The Los Angeles Times" says Fire Chief Jaime Moore, the new chief that you selected in October, said at a fire commission meeting earlier this week, "It is now clear that multiple drafts were edited to soften language and reduce explicit criticism of department leadership in that final report."

"The LA Times" says that you deny working with the fire department on any changes to your report. But do you know if anyone from your office was involved at all in these reported, "refinements?"

BASS: No. And let me just explain, too, because these reports are highly technical reports about what a fire department does. So in terms of my particular staff, I don't have any firefighters on staff. And so I think what the fire chief pointed out was that he believed that things were watered down to protect other people within the fire department.

You know that I relieved the fire chief shortly after the fire stopped and called for a whole transformation of the leadership, appointed a new fire chief. I had an interim in for a while we did the search process. They came up with a series of recommendations that are being implemented now.

But there is also an independent investigation that is happening that was called for by Governor Newsom, and we should be getting the results from the Fire Safety Research Institute, essentially the state of the art industry that evaluates fires.

TAPPER: Quickly, if you could. Before you go, I want to get your reaction to what's going on in Minneapolis right now. You've dealt with ICE enforcement in Los Angeles. What's your take on this all?

BASS: Well, you know what? I think this kind of thing was inevitable and I think it is extremely tragic. What really worries me now is the massive recruitment and I'm sure expedited training of officers that are going to be deployed around the country. And so this is very scary because you have people going into neighborhoods and communities that they're unfamiliar with.

[18:00:09]

They should have never been there to begin with. I don't think anything was happening in Minneapolis that required troops. But this is the kind of thing that happens. And of course were worried because were the first experiment. And I think that this is something we're going to have to be concerned about moving forward. What level of training, what level of accountability?

TAPPER: Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass, thank you so much for your time.

BASS: Thanks for having me, Jake.