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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Says, Killing in Iran Stopped, Executions Won't Take Place; No Deal Despite Trump's Pressure and Top-Level Meeting; Four Astronauts Leave ISS in Unprecedented Medical Evacuation. Vance Breaks Tie, Blocking Effort To Limit Trump's War Powers. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired January 14, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, President Trump is refusing to take military action by the United States off the table in Iran, after weeks of deadly protest there against the Iranian regime.

[18:00:007]

But the president also announced this afternoon that he's been told the killings in Iran have stopped. Is that true? What happens next?

Also, just minutes ago, we saw the start of the first ever medical evacuation from the International Space Station. Four astronauts ending their mission early set to touch back -- touchdown back on Earth in just a few hours. We're tracking their early return with a former commander of the space station ahead.

And the White House says it was the, quote, appropriate response for President Trump to give the middle finger to a heckler who appeared to call him a pedophile protector. Now, online fundraisers are popping up for that UAW factory worker who says he has been suspended from his job for yelling at the president.

Our Lead tonight, President Trump in the Oval Office addressing Iran's brutal crackdown on anti-government protesters, a US-based rights group telling CNN that at least 2,420 demonstrators have been killed by the regime in recent weeks. Just moments ago, we learned that the execution of Iranian protester Erfan Soltani, which we told you about earlier in the show, did not take place today. That's according to a family member and a human rights organization. A family member cautioning the execution was not canceled either.

Earlier, President Trump claimed that he'd been told the killing has stopped, and Iran has no plans for executions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We've been told that the killing in Iran is stopping and it's stopped. It's stopping, and there's no plan for executions or an execution or executions. So, I've been told that a good authority. We'll find out about it. I'm sure if it happens, we'll all be very upset, (END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: President Trump adding that the U.S. will watch and see what happens before taking military action against the Iranian regime off the table.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is at the White House for us. Kaitlan?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake. Well, obviously, this was a key question for the president as we went into the oval earlier today of what his briefing on Iran had told him last night when he met with those officials after that meeting had already started and where he was going to go next. After for the last, you know, two weeks, Jake, the president, has been threatening that the United States would help these Iranian protesters if Iran started killing them as they were protesting in the streets. Obviously, we've seen Jake from our colleagues reporting body backs that have been lining the streets of Tehran.

And so when the president said that he was told that Iran has stopped killing the protesters, obviously, the next natural question is who told him that, and whether or not if it's the Iranian regime, if he trusts them. And this is what he told me inside the oval earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Who told you that the killings have stopped there? And if it's the Iranian regime --

TRUMP: We have been informed by very important sources on the other side. And they've said the killing has stopped and the executions won't take place. There are supposed to be a lot of executions today and that the executions won't take place, and we're going to find out. I mean, I'll find out after this, you'll find out. But we've been told on good authority, and I hope it's true, who knows, right? Who knows?

COLLINS: We've seen the body bags, so how do you trust them?

TRUMP: You've seen that over the last few days. And they said people were shooting at them with guns and they were shooting back, and, you know, it's one of those things. But they told me that there will be no executions. And so I hope that's true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: And Jake, I tried to follow up with the president on what he meant there when he said about protesters firing back, he seemed to say there. We know obviously the Iranian regime has been firing at these protesters and killing them, and we've also seen this major blackout that has been taking place in Iran, which has made it so difficult to get information out of there, which is why it's key, obviously, when the president himself is being briefed by his own team on that.

But it does raise real questions, Jake, about what is going to happen next. The president kept saying a lot of, we'll see how this plays out, we'll see if what these authorities in Iran that are telling them that the killings have stopped is true. But obviously, Jake, he had encouraged these protests. He had told them to keep going and said the United States was behind them, and also threatened military action if they killed protesters, which we know did happen.

And so it does raise questions of what could happen next here, Jake, or if the president was looking for an off-ramp from those threats that he had made about how the United States would get involved here, something that here in Washington, some Republicans had said they supported, others had said they were skeptical of the United States getting involved overseas again.

TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins at the White House for us, thanks so much.

And, of course, don't miss Kaitlan on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. Her guests tonight include Democratic Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.

Let's bring in Moj Mahdara, co-founder of the Iranian Diaspora Collective. Also with me in studio is CNN Global Affairs Analyst Brett McGurk, who served in senior national security positions under Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama and Donald Trump and Joe Biden.

[18:05:00]

Moj, to you first. You've been working closely with independent journalists and sources who remain in direct, increasingly risky communication with citizens inside Iran. What are they telling you about what life is like in Iran right now and how they feel about a potential U.S. intervention?

MOJ MAHDARA, CO-FOUNDER, IRANIAN DIASPORA COLLECTIVE: Thanks, Jake. I think this is a really important question to ask. The people in Iran right now are terrified. I think there's almost no one that's not been directly impacted. They're living under martial law. They've been cut off from landlines and internet connectivity to the outside world. This is terrifying to them.

I think there's a real urgency around support for them. I think they are expecting some sort of external support. They've been encouraged by the exiled crown prince to hit the streets and the president has said he has their best interest in mind.

And so the question is, what does that mean? What are they living with? I mean, we're living with an extreme amount of violence. People are calling this sort of Tiananmen Square times ten. We're talking about the numbers in the tens of thousands that have been reported by various different outlets. I mean, this is essentially a massacre of Iranians who are not protesting over economic or sanctions or nuclear, they are demanding a regime change so they can have a referendum, because it's quite obvious the Iranian people have been doing this over and over again for years. They want a regime change.

TAPPER: Moj, you heard President Trump saying that he'd been told the killing in Iran has stopped, no plans for executions. Some people wondering if the president's looking for an off-ramp. First of all, what's the truth? I mean, even if that one execution was stopped, has the killing and execution stopped? And second of all, are you worried?

MAHDARA: Iran -- the Islamic Republic is the leading country in the world in terms of executions. No one executes more people than them. How can you trust someone that just massacred, according to themselves, 12-000 plus people? And that's just in Tehran. We're not talking about the larger 30 provinces. How can we trust a regime that actively supports Hezbollah and Hamas and the Houthis and has brought in more importantly ,mlitias from Iraq, they have brought in militias from Afghanistan, they have brought in Hezbollah to come in and actually massacre their own people?

So, how can we base a level of trust with people who have been incapable to keep their promises to their own people, first and foremost, much less to the greater world at large? I don't think we can trust a word that they say. They're only interested in not just their own power, but their own ideology, which has proven to be extremely dangerous to the world.

TAPPER: Yes. Brett, if it was as simple as President Trump pressing a button and getting rid of the regime and democracy flourishing, I'm sure he would do it. If it was as simple as bombing one little site, as he did when he bombed the nuclear facilities, I'm sure he would do that too. I don't -- I keep asking people what action would work? Like what can the U.S. do? What do you think?

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, that's what makes us so different from the Maduro operation or the Fordow strike in June, in which you had a set military objective very clear. Here, it's unclear. So, when talking about the military instrument of power, look, there are two forces in Iran, the people and the regime. And the regime now is staying in power solely by requested force. It's been that way for some time. What may have just happened the last 96 hours seems unprecedented in terms of the scale of the killing.

So, what should the United States do? We want to do everything we can to support the people. That means making sure they can communicate, doing things with Starlink and other mechanisms we have with our advanced technology company, so making sure they communicate, get around this blackout. This is long-term enforcing sanctions on the Iranian regime. These protests started in the bizarre, from the collapse of the Iranian currency, and Iran is still exporting amazingly, Jake, 2 million barrels of oil a day despite a policy from the White House to drive those down to zero. So, these are things.

But this is longer term, recognizing that there is no push button, as you said. This is going to take some time. But after what has happened in the last 96 hours and President Trump's statement yesterday, in which he basically declared a regime change policy, told Iran and people's stay in the streets, take over your institutions. If what he's saying today, and we'll find out soon enough, is that a feint that was on June, or has he totally backed off? I don't know.

The military instrument here is very tricky. Because on the one hand, supporting the people and then you want to deter the repressive apparatus of the regime from massacring your own people, how do you do that? I mean, sanctions is one tool, but some aspect of targeted military action might be effective. I think you'd have to see all the options, but it has to be an array, a kind of a broad policy.

But, anyway, Jake, you're right, there's no push button here, but I think what has happened the last 96 hours, and the information will come out as the internet gets up again, appears to be a massive killing.

I would just say, you know, President Trump talks a lot about Barack Obama's red line in Syria, saying, do not use chemical weapons, and the Assad regime crossed that red line.

[18:10:04]

About 1,300 Syrians died in that chemical attack in Ghouta. Here, it appears far more Iranians have been killed after they crossed a red line that Trump himself drew. So, the president has some real decisions to make here, and it's difficult. This is difficult, serious, extremely complicated business, but I think we have to make some choices.

TAPPER: And Moj, should Iran's regime collapse, what then? What happens next? What would you want to happen next?

MAHDARA: Listen, I think we have an incredible opportunity where we do have a transitional leader that people on the streets have been chanting and asking for, which is the exiled crown prince. He has made it clear that he does not want to return to a monarchy. But what would be ideal in this moment is to support the exiled crown prince through a transition so that people of Iran can have a referendum and they can actually vote and be their own voice.

It is imperative that we give them this opportunity. They are dying for a chance to reset the Middle East, to reset the relationship with the west. There's so much the Iranian people that can contribute to the larger world.

And I want to say one thing in particular that the Iranians have in Iran that's unique, which is a very passionate and powerful diaspora that is dying to reinvest and get back home and be with their families. There's a huge opportunity here, I think, to reset.

And so supporting the crown prince, Reza Pahlavi, I think, would be a step as a transitional leader so we can get to a referendum. And I know that's a huge stretch and I know that's a big ask, but I think the alternative here is an IRGC leader or we're looking at reform, which sanctions have proven to be ineffective here. I wish they had been effective, but they're not.

TAPPER: Let's hope and pray for a democratic Iran. Moj Mahdara, Brett McGurk, thanks for both of you. I appreciate it.

MAHDARA: Thank you for having us. Thank you for this conversation. TAPPER: The FBI searched the home of a Washington Post reporter today allegedly seizing his cell phone and two computers. How top Trump officials are explaining this search tonight of a journalist who didn't do anything other than journalism, as far as we can tell.

Plus, NASA's first ever medical evacuation from the International Space Station is underway right now with four astronauts on an earlier than expected return trip home. What we're learning about the emergency mission ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead this morning, FBI agents seized a phone and two computers from the home of Washington Post Reporter Hannah Natanson. Am I pronouncing that correctly? Is it Natanson? Okay, great.

In a Washington Post article last month, Natanson, who had been covering the Trump administration's firings of federal employees, dubbed herself the federal government whisperer. FBI Director Kash Patel says Natanson was allegedly obtaining and reporting classified sensitive military information from a government contractor, unquote. A person familiar with the matter told CNN that Natanson is not the target of investigation. Instead, the search was part of a probe into that government contractor.

CNN's Evan Perez joins us now. And, Evan, Attorney General Merrick Garland, as I recall, implemented a policy in 2022 banning the use of warrants to seize reporters' records. And the very first thing Attorney General Pam Bondi did, or one of the first things she did, was take away that guidance.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. And I think that's one of the reasons why what happened today is so extraordinary. And also, you know, obviously, we've been expecting that this was going to be tested. And, you know, that statement from the FBI director, I think, does raise additional concerns.

Now, as you pointed out, the Post and others are saying that they've been assured that she's not the target, but the extraordinary steps that they took today, and that those comments from Kash Patel tell us that that could easily change because what the -- you know, seizing her devices, seizing her work computer, again, raises the possibility that the FBI could go looking around for other things and then change their mind and decide that perhaps they want to pursue things against this reporter.

Again, I would not be reassured by what Kash Patel says, especially because of the memo from the attorney general from last year. She issued that memo in April, which rescinded the Garland memo. And one of the things that you look at that memo, it really talks about a lot about the about the elites in Washington. And the whole theme of it is that reporters are being protected extraordinarily and that the government needs to be able to find leakers. And if they need to go subpoena reporters and force them to give up their sources, they should be able to do that.

Now, the attorney general also says, though, that obviously she has to approve some of these extraordinary measure measures, but I think one of the things that is chilling about what happened today, Jake, is that they already had the contractor. His name is Aurelio Perez- Lugones, who allegedly is the person who's leaked these documents. He is behind bars right now. He's subject right now to a detention while he faces the charges that they're pursuing against him. And so the question is, why do you need to do this with reporters?

TAPPER: Yes. And, I mean, what did she reported that was so such a heinous national security offense?

PEREZ: Right. I mean, obviously, you know, the story that you pointed out there where she talks to herself about being the federal government whisperer probably does not help take the attention away from her.

TAPPER: Yes, but it's -- I'm just saying it's not the Pentagon Papers.

Evan Perez, thank you so much.

Leaders from Greenland and Denmark walked out of a meeting with White House officials today declaring that there is still a, quote, fundamental disagreement over the future of Greenland, which Trump wants to become part of the United States. So, what happens next? Well, we're going to go live to Greenland in moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

TAPPER: In our World Lead, amid unrelenting pressure from President Trump to make Greenland part of the United States, including a Truth Social post this morning in which the president declared, quote, the United States needs Greenland for the purpose of national security, unquote, and anything less than that is unacceptable, unquote.

Top officials from Denmark and Greenland after meeting with Vice President J.D. Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio earlier today made it clear that there is no agreement here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARS LOKKE RASMUSSEN, DANISH FOREIGN MINISTER: For us, ideas that would not respect territorial integrity of the Kingdom of Denmark and the right of self-determination of the Greenland people, of course, totally unacceptable. And we therefore still have a fundamental disagreement, but we also agree to disagree.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: CNN's Nic Robertson's in Greenland for us. Nic, where do we go from here? NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: To high level talks in the coming weeks. That's how the Danish foreign minister framed it. Look, he's a respected diplomat, a tough negotiator by all accounts. What he's been able to do is buy a little time for the people of Greenland, where they don't have to expect the hard option from President Trump, that troops might be coming or somehow the country gets annexed.

[18:25:01]

He has made it very clear that Denmark, Greenland is categorically opposed to that these couple of weeks, also by Denmark, more time. You have Swedish troops coming, Norwegian troops coming, German troops coming, Danish troops coming. It allows more time for the NATO allies and partners, particularly in the north of Europe, to coalesce a position to find out precisely what military options they have on the ground here to show President Trump that NATO can give the level of security that he wants to see in and around Greenland. And that may not go far enough to meet what President Trump wants but these talks might with these options more clear on the table, on the ground go in that direction. But the foreign minister very, very clear that this clear difference exists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RASMUSSEN: There's clearly a disagreement. We agreed that it makes sense to try to sit down on a high level to explore whether there's possibilities to accommodate the concerns of the president while we at the same time respect the red lines of the Kingdom of Denmark.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: So going into these meetings, what the foreign minister said he wanted to achieve was to take some of the heat out of the debate, to put some nuance into the debate. That appears to be what he's been able to do, but it hasn't brought the two sides closer together at the moment, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Nic Robertson in Greenland, thanks so much.

With us now to discuss, Democratic Congresswoman Sara Jacobs of California, who's part of a bipartisan Congressional delegation traveling to Copenhagen, Denmark, later this week. Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us.

Let me play for you something that President Trump said about Greenland this afternoon in the Oval Office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The problem is there's not a thing that Denmark can do about it if Russia or China wants to occupy Greenland, but there's everything we can do. You found that out last week with Venezuela. There's everything we can do about things such as that. Not going to happen. We're not -- you know, I can't rely on Denmark being able to fend themselves off. (END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Congresswoman, isn't that the scenario that NATO was developed to avoid? I mean, if the Chinese or Russians tried to occupy Greenland, Denmark would in invoke, what is it, Article 4, and --

REP. SARA JACOBS (D-CA): Article 5.

TAPPER: Article 5, and an attack on one is an attack on all, and the U.S. would get involved.

JACOBS: That's exactly right. If Russia or China were to try and attack Greenland, that is exactly what NATO is for. Denmark would invoke Article 5 and all of the partners in NATO, including the United States, would then come to Greenland's defense. It's why it makes no sense for President Trump to be doing this. This is just another one of his vanity projects like, putting his name on the Kennedy Center. There's no real strategic reason for this. We have a treaty with the Danes, a 1951 treaty, that actually allows us to do basically whatever we feel we need to do militarily in Greenland. And so there is literally no military purpose for what Donald Trump is trying to do with Greenland.

TAPPER: So, what are you looking to accomplish on this trip to Denmark?

JACOBS: Yes. So, this is a bipartisan Congressional delegation, and we feel like it's important to go and show that on a bipartisan basis, the members of Congress do not support President Trump's plan, that the majority of Americans do not support President Trump, and that we stand with our ally, the Danes, and with the people of Greenland who should get to decide for themselves, who governs them.

You know, Denmark actually was one of the countries that, after 9/11, they sent their own troops to Iraq and Afghanistan and actually were one of the highest per capita losses of life in Afghanistan. That's Danish soldiers that were killed instead of American soldiers. That's what we're talking about here. That's the kind of partnership we've had. And we want to make sure that they know that there are many of us on both sides of the aisle who appreciate that and respect that, and are going to do everything we can to make sure that that alliance is preserved.

TAPPER: In America today, the country's so divided, you know, 40 percent of the country automatically supports everything President Trump says and does, 40 percent of the country automatically opposes everything President Trump says and does as a general rule. But this new Reuters/Ipsos poll shows that when it comes to U.S. efforts to acquire Greenland, only 17 percent approve of the effort to acquire Greenland. And in terms of whether or not it's a good idea for the U.S. to take Greenland using military force, that goes down to 4 percent. I mean, these are numbers that you just don't see in polling.

JACOBS: Well, that's exactly right. And, you know, there's estimates that it would cost about $700 billion to buy Greenland.

[18:30:01]

Think about all of the things we could do here, investing in America, in housing and healthcare and childcare for the American people with $700 billion.

So, you know, I think the American people are right. I think there's a bipartisan consensus in Congress that this doesn't make sense. And hopefully that will be enough to stop Donald Trump from this vanity project.

TAPPER: All right. Congresswoman Sara Jacobs, Democrat of California, thank you so much. I appreciate your time. Have fun in Denmark.

JACOBS: Thank you.

TAPPER: Four astronauts just began their return to Earth weeks ahead of schedule because one of them is having a medical emergency. We're tracking their journey with a former commander of the space station, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Some breaking news on this fiery crash of a UPS cargo flight last November in Louisville, Kentucky, the NTSB says the exact part that failed was a three-inch metal housing around a bearing. It's a key part to keep the left engine attached to a wing. The crash killed 3 pilots on board and 12 people on the ground.

In our Out of This World Lead today, for the first time ever, an International Space Station crew is coming home early. In just the last hour, four astronauts undocked from the International Space Station to begin the return trip to Earth.

[18:35:04]

According to NASA, this unprecedented early departure was the result of medical issues.

This exodus leaves behind only three crew members, two men at the ISS, two Russian cosmonauts, and NASA Astronaut Chris Williams.

Joining us to discuss is former NASA Astronaut and International Space Station Commander Leroy Chiao. Leroy, thanks for joining us.

So, NASA has not released any details about the medical issues citing privacy concerns. But how serious of a condition would it have to be to require this extreme measure here of returning to Earth?

LEROY CHIAO, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT/ISS COMMANDER: Well, clearly, this was a somewhat serious event because, as you pointed out, it would have to be in order to have the crew come back. We are very well- trained for these kinds of things. Each mission has at least one crew, medical officer, not necessarily an M.D., but someone who's been trained up to kind of be able to stabilize and, you know, talk to the doctors on the ground. We have an extensive medical kit on board, diagnostic tools, including ultrasound. And so, you know, we don't want to speculate on what this is, but NASA has emphasized that the patient is absolutely stabilized. There's no cause for immediate concern, and pretty much out of an abundance of caution, they want to get this person back to the ground so they could do a full workup and make sure that there's not anything else that needs to be worried about.

So, obviously, you know, fairly serious in order to, you know, warrant this kind of action never been done in the history of the station. And so, you know, it'll be interesting to see. I think everything will go well. You know, I think they're just being overly -- not overly, but abundantly cautious and they don't want to -- they want to make sure that they don't miss something.

TAPPER: So, the International Space Station has lost more than half of its staff with this move. Will those three astronauts left behind, two cosmonauts and one astronaut, will they be able to keep the ISS running?

CHIAO: Sure. They can keep the ISS going during the scheduled and, you know, repairs of anything that happens. Three is planning to be able to do that. The thing that will suffer will be experiment operations particularly in the US segment. And of course you saw that the spacewalk that had been planned for the other day was canceled because of this.

So, you know -- but it's -- these are things that just get delayed. And so the planners are very good at their jobs. They'll be able to plan all of those items that get missed or don't get executed now, and they'll be done later by other crews.

TAPPER: A fellow astronaut, Clayton Anderson, wrote an op-ed for The Washington Post yesterday saying that this situation illustrates how unprepared we are for major missions. He writes, quote, we must treat medical resilience with the same urgency as rocket reusability. NASA's catchphrase of we are going to the Moon and Mars is inspiring and ambitious, but it's only meaningful if in arriving we ensure humans can survive the journey, unquote. Do you agree? Do you think not enough emphasis is being placed on astronaut safety?

CHIAO: I don't agree with that because, you know, we are very well- screened medically before we go, and we're very well-trained. But things do happen. And of course there's risk and exploration. So, you've got to accept a measure of risk. I mean, if you look at you know, the Apollo missions, the amount of risks that those pioneers were willing to accept and take, and in a way we kind of got away with, you know, using equipment that's a lot less sophisticated, reliable than the equipment we're using these days, you know, you look at going to Mars.

And we're going to have to accept risks because there are things that we haven't anticipated or couldn't have anticipated, and not least of which is the extreme radiation environment the crews will be in once they get out of the magnetosphere and just, you know, not far away from the Earth. You're outside of the magnetosphere and you're exposed to all that radiation for a half year journey each way, plus you're stay on the surface. So, a lot of things to be worked out, but, you know, you can't explore without accepting some risk.

TAPPER: All right. Leroy Chiao, thanks so much. I appreciate your time.

New fallout today from that video by the six Democratic lawmakers where they reminded members of the U.S. military that they had a duty to disobey any illegal orders, that story is next states

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:45:00]

TAPPER: Back in our Politics Lead. Four Democratic lawmakers say they have been contacted by U.S. Attorney Jeanine Pirro's office. This is related to the video they filmed in November reminding us members of the military that they were obligated to disobey any illegal orders.

Michigan Senator Elissa Slotkin, Colorado Congressman Jason Crow, New Hampshire Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander, and Pennsylvania Congresswoman Chrissy Houlahan have all confirmed that the U.S. attorney contacted them. It's not yet clear what crime this investigation could be focused on. Senator Slotkin posted a message on X earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): To be clear, this is the president's playbook. Truth doesn't matter. Facts don't matter. And anyone who disagrees with him becomes an enemy and he then weaponizes the federal government against them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I want to bring in my panel. Mike, before the administration started seeking retaliation, or whatever you want to call it, an investigation or Pentagon going after Mark Kelly, et cetera, et cetera, I was hearing Democrats complaining about the video that the Democrats made. They thought it was a distraction. They thought it was a stunt. They thought it was silly. They thought it was -- but now the subject -- now the focus is the retaliation.

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, I think now the focus is for other Democrats. They're seeing the amount of money that these four or five Democrats are raising off of this controversy. I mean --

TAPPER: After the retaliation, not the --

DUBKE: Well, how long has this story been going on?

TAPPER: Well, it started in November.

DUBKE: Right. So, you say pulling out -- this is the president's playbook? They played into the president's playbook. They knew that this was going to get a reaction.

SABRINA SINGH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Trump also fundraised off of that.

DUBKE: Yes. But they knew this was going to get a reaction.

TAPPER: I'm saying they baited him. Like that's what I'm saying. They baited him. Usually, it's the other way around. Usually, Democrats take Trump's bait. This was the opposite.

DUBKE: And this was like the early, I keep calling it the Gavin Newsom-ization of the party. They are taking the president's playbook and they're trying all these different aspects to try to bait him into something. It helped with their fundraising. The other Democrats are now jealous. I think that's where we're at.

TAPPER: What do you think?

SABRINA SINGH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I mean, I don't -- I think there was disagreement in the party about the video, but you can agree with the timing of the video, the substance of the video, everything that they said in the video, they're just reciting the UCMJ, which is the Code of Military Justice.

I think what we were talking about earlier is I think this is just such a gross use of the Department of Justice's resources to investigate these lawmakers for basically exercising their free speech. I'd rather -- you know, Jeanine Pirro, others, the DOJ, be focused on real cases that matter, like getting criminals off of our streets.

TAPPER: Yeah.

SINGH: I think going after these members of Congress, I mean, what are the charges? What are we what are we talking about?

TAPPER: Well, as a D.C. resident, there's some -- there's some criminals that I'd like them to take care of. What do you think?

DUBKE: That's what the National Guard is here for.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: So just to underscore what you said, what they said in the video was repeating the law, the notion that they are under investigation for this is ridiculous. Point two earlier today, I got a fundraising email from Mark Kelly. So it's still working.

TAPPER: Oh, I think he's -- I mean, if he runs for president in 2028, this is really a big boost for him.

Just in some news, a measure to limit President Trump's actions in Venezuela. It just failed in the Senate. This is after an intense pressure campaign from the Trump administration specifically targeting two Republican senators that had been in support of the measure to limit President Trump's power in Venezuela.

Senator Todd Young of Indiana and Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri. They were originally going to join with the Democratic-led War Powers Act vote. Vice President Vance broke the tie on Capitol Hill, 50/50. So, what does this mean when it comes to Venezuela?

GANGEL: Well, I think what it means is that you're seeing some, you know, stops here and there. But big picture when whether its Venezuela or Greenland or Iran, you know, President Trump is not going to stop. He feels emboldened.

TAPPER: Sure.

GANGEL: And so, I am not sure that these little pushbacks along the way are going to make a big difference.

TAPPER: Do you agree?

DUBKE: I do think they make a difference. And here's -- here's why. I think we're in a different spot than we were in the first year of the -- of the presidency. We're coming up on January 20th and celebrated the first year of Trump 2.0.

But now, we're looking at the midterms. And I think -- I think members of Congress are now looking through that prism, the midterms, they're also looking through the fact that most of these folks have already filed for their reelection campaigns. So they don't -- they're not as worried as the about the Trump White House running somebody against them.

And I also think that we're hitting some of the bedrock issues here. NATO is a bedrock issue for most Republicans. I think Greenland is an example of that.

TAPPER: Sabrina, I want to get your take on because we're getting a lot of reaction to this. The video of the president yesterday, we paid for use of this. So we're going to show it.

This is President Trump flipping the bird and saying F you -- except he didn't say F -- to an autoworker while he was touring the plant. The autoworker apparently called him a pedophile protector, a reference to the Epstein scandal. This is at a Michigan Ford plant.

"The Washington Post" caught up with that worker. He's a 40-year-old line worker named T.J. Sabula, I think.

Anyway, he told them, quote, as far as calling him out, definitely no regrets whatsoever. I don't feel as though fate looks upon you often, and when it does, you better be ready to seize the opportunity. And today I think I did that.

He has been suspended from work pending an investigation. What's your take on it all?

SINGH: I'm sure Trump's DOJ is also going to launch an investigation into this individual. Look, I mean, obviously, what a president -- would President Biden, would President Obama, would President Bush ever do something like that? They have been heckled. They have been protested before. I don't think so. Is that the reaction that I like to see from president? No. This person was obviously exercising their free speech and First Amendment rights.

I don't love the idea of like, interrupting every single rally or event that a president is going to, and this person was a worker there, so it was a bit odd, you know, you knew that the president was going to be there.

But look, you know, you can exercise your free speech. And that's what this individual is doing.

GANGEL: Two quick points. One, it is clear the Epstein files still get a reaction out of President Trump.

TAPPER: Yeah.

GANGEL: I think that's the headline. Headline number two. Two people, one a friend, one someone didn't know, started a GoFundMe for this Ford worker who was suspended.

[18:50:00]

It is now -- I was just doing the math of the two accounts -- more than $810,000 has been donated.

TAPPER: Holy smokes.

DUBKE: The Democrats are raising money. You got Ford workers raising money off of President Trump right now. I mean, he is just an economic machine.

TAPPER: But also that that that ICE agent, there was some -- there was a GoFundMe, GoFundMe raised for him as well. It's kind of a new way that Americans can vote for their team.

DUBKE: In real time.

TAPPER: I guess. Yeah.

DUBKE: You don't have to wait.

TAPPER: Yeah. Our new CNN poll out today, an Americans responses to the Minneapolis shooting showed a real partisan divide on the issue to highlight one example, 82 percent of Democrats and Democratic leaning independents say ICE is making cities less safe, 67 percent of Republicans and Republican leaning independents say ICE is making cities more safe.

But it is a bigger margin on the Democratic side. And 17 percent of Republicans and Republican leaning independents said sided with the Democrats.

So, what does that say to you?

GANGEL: So I -- the polling question, I wonder if it was more specific about these ICE raids we're seeing. Would change those numbers even more. But I think the reality is I've spoken to law enforcement officials, former DHS law enforcement officials who, by the way, are Republicans, and they are appalled by what they are seeing in these ICE raids. They feel that the agents have doubled down and are really emboldened, and they're worried.

TAPPER: Thanks one and all. Appreciate it, and good luck with Buffalo.

DUBKE: Go Bills!

TAPPER: Good luck with -- against those Broncos.

We'll be right back.

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[18:55:50]

TAPPER: In our national lead, it has been one year since the Palisades and Eaton Fires destroyed neighborhoods across the Los Angeles region, and killed more than 30 people. A brand new book captures a journalist's personal, firsthand account of the chaos and devastation that unfolded. The book is called "Firestorm: The Great Los Angeles Fires At America's New Age Of Disaster".

And the author, MS NOW senior political and national reporter Jacob Soboroff, who joins us now here in studio.

Jacob, thanks so much for joining us. Good to see you.

JACOB SOBOROFF, AUTHOR, "FIRESTORM": Good to see you, Jake. Thanks.

TAPPER: One thing, obviously, to cover natural disaster as a journalist. It's another to witness your home, the place you grew up in this case, Pacific Palisades, burned to the ground. Your childhood home itself destroyed. What's the main thing that you want people to take away from your book?

SOBOROFF: Well, first of all, I still can't quite put to words what it was like to be there and have to report live on television. As I watched my not just my neighborhood, but my childhood home carbonized in front of my eyeballs, I didn't have the mental capacity to process in real time what I was seeing.

How did it happen? Why did it happen? Is it going to happen again? Is there somebody to blame? And those are all the reasons that I set out to write "Firestorm".

It turns out that I thought I was looking at my past. This is the fire of the future. And I think that while the book at times reads like a sci-fi thriller, what it really is a minute by minute account of what it is like to be there in in one of these fires in America's new age of disaster that we will all be experiencing soon. And that is what I want people to understand, is that this is coming for all of us. TAPPER: So, this is one moment that was very remarkable, where you're

covering the Palisades fire and you get a phone call from Katie Miller.

SOBOROFF: I sure did.

TAPPER: The former White House aide, married to Stephen Miller, the White House aide. And this is a source of that. You've had a contentious relationship with Katie. She's -- she and her husband, Stephen, are forceful figures to put it mildly.

SOBOROFF: Yeah.

TAPPER: She asked you to check on Stephen's parents' home in the Pacific Palisades. And you did. And unfortunately, the house didn't make it, very sad for the -- for the Miller family. But about the same time, you're having this very personal, very human interaction with her, her once and future boss, President-elect Trump is posting misinformation on social media about the fires and attacking the governor, the Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom.

SOBOROFF: I thought a lot about whether or not I was going to include this story in the book. And as you said, Katie and I have had, I think it's fair to say, an adversarial journalist-source relationship. But we were friendly. I mean, she let me into the detention centers when I was covering family separations. She wanted me to see what the administration was doing the first time around.

TAPPER: She obviously saw you as a person. She reaches out for help.

SOBOROFF: She did. And, I think, you know, I was shocked when she called, to be honest, because she had cut off communication with me after I wrote my first book, "Separated", about the separation crisis. I don't think she liked it. Probably also fair to say.

But I said to her, I would be happy to go by and check on the house. And as you said, I found that the house had burned down. I did the same thing for her that I did for the kids. I drove in high school carpool or my own brother who lost the home that he was living in, and many other people,

TAPPER: Yeah, I just -- I had a CNN friend look at my cousin's house also. I mean, like we were all doing.

SOBOROFF: Well, think about it. Nobody was there, you know, was firefighters and us, basically. It was part of the reason why I couldn't process it. No neighbors or no friends were around.

I knew Stephen Miller was from Santa Monica. I didn't know his parents lived in the palisades, and I was happy to go by, and I was devastated for her and for the Millers that they had lost their home.

But within minutes, to see the Donald Trump was tweeting about non- existent sources of water that he thought would somehow stop the fire, or blaming one politician or another, or Elon Musk, her future boss at DOGE echoing those sentiments, it made clear to me part of what the new age of disaster is. It's not only the global climate emergency, it's not only our infrastructure falling apart, it's not only changes in the way we live, electric car batteries. It's the politics of blame and misinformation and disinformation that poor rhetorical fuel on very real and literal flames and that, I mean, what her bosses were doing were hurting her very own in-laws at the time. She asked me to go check on the house.

TAPPER: Yeah. And for people who aren't old enough to remember, there was a time when natural disasters would unite people regardless of party.

SOBOROFF: Chris Christie and Barack Obama hugging after Sandy.

TAPPER: Yeah, but that was used against Chris Christie.

The book is called "Firestorm: The Great Los Angeles Fire And America's New Age Of Disaster". The author, journalist Jacob Soboroff.

Thanks so much for being here.

SOBOROFF: Thanks so much, jake. Appreciate it.

TAPPER: If you ever missed an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now. Erin, take it away. I'll see you all tomorrow.