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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Source: Five-Year-Old & His Father Held In Texas ICE Facility; Jack Smith Challenges Claims Of Partisanship In Tense Hearing; Worst Winter Storm In Decades Taking Shape; Facebook Comment Leads To Police Visiting Critic Of Miami Beach Mayor; Trump Claims NATO Troops "Stayed Off" Afghanistan Front Lines. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired January 22, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right. Thanks to my panel. Really appreciate you guys being here today. Thanks to you at home as well. Don't forget you can now stream the arena live.

Catch up whenever you want in the CNN app. You can scan the QR code below to find it. You can also catch up by listening to The Arena's podcast. There's QR code for that, too. You can follow along on X and Instagram at the arenacnn.

But of course, do not go anywhere. Jake Tapper is standing for "The Lead." Hi, Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Kasie, with the Birds gone, who are you rooting for to be in this -- to win the Super Bowl?

HUNT: Oh, that's pretty tricky. I got a good friend who loves the Seahawks, but I know the Broncos have been fun to watch this year. What do you think?

TAPPER: No underdogs. I don't even know what to do.

HUNT: I know. It's tough.

TAPPER: All right. See you, Kasie. We'll look for more tomorrow in "The Arena."

HUNT: See you next time.

[17:00:52]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: The prosecutor who brought two defunct criminal cases against Donald Trump got to defend his own actions publicly today. The Lead starts right now.

Did he try to unfairly take down Trump or was he standing up for democracy and the rule of law? The extreme partisan divide as lawmakers question former special counsel Jack Smith today. Plus, what could be the worst winter storm in years. Nearly 125 million Americans in 24 states under alerts, how cities across the country are getting ready.

But first, a father and son in custody, church protesters arrested and a fake image from the White House. Quite a lot going on in the Minneapolis immigration crackdown.

Welcome to The Lead. Another day in paradise. I'm Jake Tapper.

We start with our national lead in the Trump administration's all-out blitz on Minneapolis and its immigration crackdown. So many images from that city today. A high level visit, high profile arrests, stark images from the crackdown, one of them fake. This afternoon we heard From Vice President J.D. Vance who went to the city and acknowledged mistakes by federal agents on the ground there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Whenever you have a law enforcement operation, even if 99.99 percent of the guys do everything perfectly, you're going to have people that make mistakes. That is the nature of law enforcement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Also today we heard repeatedly about the so called agitators whom the Trump administration says are obstructing law enforcement. Here's how they're trying to keep those demonstrators at bay. At times tossing green chemical agents into the crowds into the press.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And then this ugly scene. A protester pinned to the ground, a chemical irritant sprayed in his face. The head of ICE, Greg Bovino also is in Minneapolis with that interesting jacket of his. Today, Bovino complained about protesters tailing him, keeping him and his team from even going to the bathroom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREGORY BOVINO, BORDER PATROL COMMANDER AT LARGE: We were set up on rioters who tried to stop us at every point yesterday. Simply using the restroom at a gas station was met with significant resistance. A lot of people would call that stalking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Online, the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem posted videos and video of protesters arrested today for having interrupted a church service in St. Paul, Minnesota this past Sunday. Why protest at a church? Well, apparently a pastor there is also a top ICE official.

A side note, today a judge shut down potential charges against former CNN anchor Don Lemon, who was also at the church. Lemon says he was there as a journalist covering the protests, not as a demonstrator. One other side note, questions about arrest images of church protest leader Nekima Levy Armstrong. The White House image on the left there shows her crying, but the version that the Department of Homeland Security posted of the arrest shows her rather stone faced. When CNN asked, the White House posted an altered photo, a fake one, well, the White House press team sent back a post from Twitter, a spokesperson from the White House that says in part, "Enforcement of the law will continue.

The memes will continue. Thank you for your attention to this matter." So apparently the White House is officially now in the business of fake news.

Then there is the question of whom ICE officials are targeting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ICE is in the Twin Cities to remove criminal illegal aliens who have been released from jails and prisons despite the risks they pose to the public. The people we've arrested here are not people you want living next door to you, your families, your children, your parents or your best friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, no doubt that is true for some of those arrested, but all of them, really, every single one? Among those that the target list included was this five-year-old boy's father who apparently showed up at the Texas border back in 2024 to apply for asylum. DHS has yet to say how the father was so dangerous to those living in suburban Minneapolis. Let's go to CNN's Omar Jimenez, who's on the ground in Minneapolis.

[17:05:12]

Omar, you were with the vice president just moments ago. You asked him about these more recent clashes that we're seeing between ICE officials and protesters.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, I mean, the thing is, ICE has been operating here in the Minneapolis St. Paul area for years with less pushback than we've seen to this point. So that was just one of the aspects of what is so different about Operation Metro Surge. Obviously, the number of agents that have come through, obviously the flashpoints and the shooting and killing of Renee Good. But the vice president even spoke and compared the reaction that the community has given here in Minneapolis versus places like Chicago and Los Angeles. But even other jurisdictions where they've run into less resistance in places like New Orleans, for example, is one of the places that he cited.

And so I even talk -- I even brought up what the St. Paul police chief said in the last few days, saying, is there not some form of common ground to find here in the area without scaring the hell out of the community, which was the words of the police chief there. And I asked, is this form of surging agents meant to send any form of political message to the leaders here in Minneapolis and the state of Minnesota? This is what he told me. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: There's been a very unique, very Minneapolis specific reaction to our enforcement of federal immigration laws. What I'm trying to do here today is understand why that is. What is it about Minneapolis that has become so chaotic? What are the specific types of cooperation that we need? Look, I don't need Tim Walz or Jacob Frey or anybody else to come out and say that they agree with J.D. Vance or Donald Trump on immigration.

I just don't need that. What I do need them to do is empower their local officials to help our local or help our federal officials out in a way where this can be a little bit less chaotic and it can be a little bit more targeted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: Now, look, it's no secret that Mayor Frey here in Minneapolis and Governor Walz have not been on the same page as the Trump administration. But J.D. Vance -- Vice President Vance, really stuck on that specific point, saying that the number one reason he learned while he was here to lower the chaos would be to get the cooperation of local and state officials. But on that point, one of the more interesting things that happened today, even prior to Vice President Vance speaking, was you had the state Department of Corrections leader come out and actually forcefully push back against some of what the Department of Homeland Security has put out to this point. You've seen it already. They put out this worst of the worst, showing some of the -- some of the folks that they take into custody showing what crimes have been committed in the past.

Well, the State Department corrections chief essentially said that they are taking credit for taking people out in the community or claiming some of these people are out in the community where when the Department of Corrections is actually handing them over to the federal government. Essentially what Vice President Vance and others have criticized local and state leaders for not doing and even said that the numbers that the federal government claims of people who are in the state of Minnesota that are facing ICE detainers is much larger than the actual number that they are seeing. So that relationship between state and local and the federal government, big theme. We'll see if it gets any better here, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Omar Jimenez in Minneapolis for us. Thank you so much. Stay warm.

Two of those recently swept up by ICE in Minneapolis are a five-year- old boy and his father. This picture of Liam Conejo Ramos going viral, the preschooler wearing a backpack and a blue rabbit hat standing in front of an ICE vehicle. CNN's Priscilla Alvarez is with me.

Priscilla, it's a stunning image. What exactly happened here? Where are the father and son now? PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So my sources tell me that the father and son are currently at a detention facility in Texas that is an Immigration and Customs Enforcement facility that is intended for the detention of families that they have picked up in the interior or along the border. So that is where they are right now and their lawyers are working that case. As far as what we know and how they were taken into custody, earlier this week, federal agents were carrying out an enforcement operation where they say the Department of Homeland Security says they were targeting the father. Now when that unfolded, according to the Department of Homeland Security, the child was left by the vehicle because they were returning from school and the father fled. The officers went to arrest him and in the meantime, other officers stayed behind with the child because if you notice when you look at that photo, there are officers that are next to the child that he's pretty much surrounded there.

So that is the events that unfolded, according to the department. School officials say that they were, they, the officers, were using the child as bait. Immigration and Customs Enforcement disputes that. Now the vice president weighed in on this image which as you mentioned has gone viral and this is what he had to say about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANCE: And I'm a father of a five-year-old, actually a five-year-old little boy, and I think to myself, oh my God, this is terrible. How did we arrest a five-year-old? Well, I do a little bit more follow up research and what I find is that the five-year-old was not arrested, that his dad was an illegal alien. And then they went -- when they went to arrest his illegal alien father, the father ran.

[17:10:15]

So the story is that ICE detained a five-year-old. Well, what are they supposed to do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Well, he loves a straw man, right? I mean like nobody said -- who said that the five-year-old was arrested? Anyway, go ahead.

ALVAREZ: Well, the five-year-old is detained. Is then -- is how this ended --

TAPPER: Sure.

ALVAREZ: -- with the father. We are still trying to get more details on the immigration history here. I have been told that they presented themselves to border officers in December of 2024 to apply for asylum. They were released into the United States. That was common at the time as they continue to go through their immigration proceedings.

It's unclear where they are in those proceedings and whether that's going to continue while they are detained. But what I will tell you, Jake, because I've done a lot of reporting on family detention as well, is the development that we've seen under this administration is that there are more people coming in from the interior put in these detention settings. So this is not an isolated instance. It is one that there are photos of that people are sharing.

TAPPER: Yes.

ALVAREZ: But I have covered other families who are in that facility who had a life in the United States that have now been uprooted.

TAPPER: Two quick questions for you. One, if somebody comes to the country, applies for asylum and is allowed to be in the United States through that, is he an illegal alien as J.D. Vance says or he -- is he -- I mean, what is his status?

ALVAREZ: The federal government will give them a work permit as they continue through their system as they apply for asylum. We don't know here if he was issued a final order of removal at some point or whether his asylum application has been terminated. We don't have those answers yet. But I will tell you, Jake, that while -- yes, if they say that he's undocumented, if they say that's a final order of removal, there are also cases where ICE has confronted this under other administrations, including under the first administration. And sometimes they choose not touch those cases because there are other ones they have to go after.

So there was a choice made here and now the father and the son are in custody.

TAPPER: And lastly, quickly, if you could, there's this internal ICE memo authorizing federal agents to forcibly enter people's homes without a warrant. What's that?

ALVAREZ: Well, this has not been widely disseminated. According to the sources I've spoken with ICE field agents, it has been verbally shared in some cases. But essentially it's almost like another interpretation of the administrative warrant which is quite narrow. You typically can't go into someone's home unless you have a judicial warrant --

TAPPER: Right.

ALVAREZ: -- signed by a judge. So this is a different interpretation that they are taking and did take in May of last year. Again, this is something that all ICE officials were aware of out in the field. It has -- some had been told about it verbally, certainly something that's going to get more attention. But again, it's an emboldening of the agency.

TAPPER: All right, Priscilla Alvarez, thank you so much.

Another big moment today, former special counsel Jack Smith testifying in a combative hearing at times on Capitol Hill. How he defended the two criminal cases he tried to bring against President Trump. Plus, winter weather at the extreme, how cities across the country are bracing for the major storm about to move in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:16:55]

TAPPER: In our law and justice lead, Jack Smith, the former special counsel who led two prosecutions against President Donald Trump, today testified public -- publicly for the very first time before the House Judiciary Committee. He attempted to defend his decision to charge President Trump for his role in the efforts to subvert the 2020 presidential election results, as well as for his handling or mishandling of classified documents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK SMITH, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL: I made my decisions without regard to President Trump's political association, activities, beliefs or candidacy in the 2024 election. President Trump was charged because the evidence established that he willfully broke the law, the very laws he took an oath to uphold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Smith's testimony today focused a great deal on Trump's role in inciting the crowd that staged that brutal and deadly January 6 attack. And the former special counsel left no doubt as to whom he intended to argue at trial was the main person responsible for that horrible day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SMITH: Our investigation revealed that Donald Trump is the person who caused January 6, that it was foreseeable to him, and that he sought to exploit the violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee spent a great deal of their time trying to attack the character of Jack Smith and the decisions he made as special counsel, some of which were controversial. Democrats sought to keep the focus squarely on President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JEFF VAN DREW (R-NJ): And I'm sorry to say, and I don't say it lightly, I do consider you to be a hypocrite.

REP. TROY NEHLS (R-TX): To put it bluntly, Mr. Smith, the stink remains on you.

REP. BECCA BALINT (D-VT): Do you believe that President Trump's Department of Justice will find some way to indict you?

SMITH: I believe they will do everything in their power to do that because they've been ordered to by the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That comment from Smith, interesting, because President Trump not content to simply cede the stage to Jack Smith and allow the Republicans on the committee to defend him. The president took to Truth Social during the hearing. He called Jack Smith a, quote, "deranged animal." And he posted this message for his Justice Department a short while ago, quote, "Based on his testimony today, there is no question that deranged Jack Smith should be prosecuted for his actions. He destroyed the lives of many innocent people, which has been history as a prosecutor.

At a minimum, he committed large scale perjury," unquote. We should note, of course, that the Justice Department often just takes their orders from President Trump, which for the kids out there, is not normally how this is done.

Jack Smith, who also served as a war crimes prosecutor in the Hague, gave this warning to the committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SMITH: I have seen how the rule of law can erode. My fear is that we have seen the rule of law function in our country for so long that many of us have come to take it for granted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: We have much more on this testimony from lawmakers, Democrats and Republicans, who were in the hearing today, later in the show.

[17:20:03]

But joining us right now is Peter Katz, who's known Jack Smith for 30 years. They first worked together in the Manhattan District Attorney's office and later worked together at the U.S. attorney's office for the Eastern District of New York.

Peter, I want to get your take on what you saw today. Did your friend Jack Smith handle the questioning well, in your view, what could he have done better, perhaps?

PETER KATZ, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I think he did exactly what he set out to do, which is present himself as a prosecutor, someone who looks at the evidence, someone who looks at the law and then makes a decision. He is as apolitical as anyone I've known in my years as a prosecutor and now as a defense attorney.

TAPPER: Do you think there are any common misconceptions about Jack Smith?

KATZ: Well, you say common misconceptions. I think the Republicans certainly have a bunch of misconceptions. Maybe the Democrats do, too. Jack does not look at cases in terms of Republicans and Democrats. He looks at it in terms of evidence and proof.

TAPPER: What did you take away from his demeanor? Knowing him, is there anything that you suspect got under his skin?

KATZ: No, I don't think so. I think he knew exactly what he was getting himself into. He asked to testify, he wanted to present his case to the committee. And I think he knew exactly what was going to come. I mean, you know, when you look at that, the hearing, I don't know, I didn't do a statistical analysis, but I would say at least 80 percent of the talking was done by the committee, not by Jack.

And so I think when he did get a chance, he tried to answer the questions as best and as truthfully as he could.

TAPPER: That's usually how these committee hearings go. Based on what President Trump posted today on social media, based on the track record where the president calls for somebody to be prosecuted and, whoa, surprise, surprise, there's an indictment of them by one of his U.S. attorney friends. Are you worried about Jack Smith facing any sort of legal retribution as his friend?

KATZ: Absolutely. I mean, who couldn't be? He was a prosecutor, he followed the law, he did his job, he looked at the evidence, and he made a decision. You may agree with it or disagree with it. A jury, if it gotten that far, would have made a decision about whether or not the evidence was sufficient.

He's done this countless times over his career, and he made the determination, not an easy determination, mind you, knowing the consequences. He made the decision that he believed that the evidence he had in both cases could prove Donald Trump's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. And so he brought the case, and that's what he did.

TAPPER: Peter Katz, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

The salt trucks are loading up. Look at this huge pile of salt. A live look in Montgomery County, Maryland, just outside D.C. where emergency crews are getting ready for the big winter storm set to hit about half the U.S. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:27:10]

TAPPER: Our national lead now. An extreme winter storm is expected to be come and be the worst in years, set to slam nearly half the United States this weekend. More than 125 million Americans are under weather alerts in New York, Philadelphia. The D.C. area could get the most snow. Portions of the south, from Virginia to Texas are bracing for ice.

Today, Maryland Governor Wes Moore declared a state of preparedness. Texas governor Greg Abbott announced a disaster declaration, ensuring additional resources for 134 Texas counties. Let's bring in voices from two areas that are getting ready for the storm. Emily DeTitta with The Montgomery County, Maryland Department of Transportation, which includes the northwest D.C. suburbs and Kevin Oden, director of Dallas emergency management in Texas.

And Emily, you're in front of the salt dome. We're going to pull out, I think, I hope. Tell us what the country or what the county rather is doing to prepare for the weekend winter storm. EMILY DETITTA, STRATEGIC COMMUNICATING MGR., MONTGOMERY CO. TRANSPORTATION DEPT.: That's right, Jake. We're in front of one of the salt domes right here. We have about 70,000 tons of salt ready to go in our 275 plows with more equipment on standby. We've already started salt brining the roads all day today and then we're going to be doing that again all day tomorrow as well.

TAPPER: Emily, what do you worry about the most?

DETITTA Whoa, the cold temperatures probably that are going to be following the storm. Snowpack and ice lasting for a couple of days. You know, we'll be out treating starting Saturday and Sunday, plowing and laying salts. But we expect that -- we expect that even after that there's going to be a lot -- a lot of ice on the roadways.

TAPPER: And Kevin, the storm is threatening to bring conditions to Texas that you guys haven't seen since that deadly winter storm in 2021, which certainly put the Texas power grid to the test. How are you guys preparing this time?

KEVIN ODEN, DIRECTOR, DALLAS DEPT. OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: Yes, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. So we've been preparing resources from our public safety departments as well as our transportation crews to pretreat roads all the way to preparing an additional thousand beds for our unsheltered population so that we can provide for their needs during this cold spell. And then also working with all of our private sector and infrastructure partners across the DFW area and the state so that we could be prepared and ready to respond to any of the impacts felt by the weather this weekend.

TAPPER: And Kevin, with all the ice, power outages could be a problem. I hope they're not, but they could be. What should Texans do if they lose electricity, if they lose heat? How quickly can crews get the power back on for them? What should they do?

[17:29:55]

ODEN: Yes, absolutely. So the number one thing is reporting to your power service provider. And then we have been in contact here in Dallas with our provider Oncor, as well as the Energy Reliability Council here in Texas. And we know there are crews, they're staged. They're ready to assist on any power line failures.

And also here at the city, we've made a significant amount of investment in additional generators at park and rec facilities. And in our civilian staff that can respond to any individuals that are affected by power outage and take them to a safe place where they can be warm and safe.

TAPPER: All right, Kevin Oden.

And let's go back to Emily DeTitta. I just want to show how big that salt mound is behind her. That's a full size human being to the left there. And that salt mound is looks like. Wow. It's like Everest. All right, Emily, thank you so much. Kevin, appreciate it. The free speech debate brewing in Florida, the questions being raised after police showed up at the door of a woman who had posted a comment on the mayor's Facebook post.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:35:12]

TAPPER: In our National Lead, the First Amendment showdown in Florida. This started back on January 6th when Miami Beach Mayor Steven Meiner posted on his Facebook page a message about Miami Beach being welcoming for everyone. The next day, Raquel Pacheco, a U.S. Army veteran who has run for office several times, posted a reply to his Facebook post. She wrote, "The guy who consistently calls for the death of all Palestinians, tried to shut down a theater for showing a movie that hurt his feelings, and refuses to stand up for the LGBTQ community in any way, even leaves the room when they vote on related matters, wants you to know that you're all welcome here. That was followed by three clown emojis.

Now, six days after Pacheco's post, which you might like or not like, then came this scene, which has gone viral. Two Miami Beach detectives showing up at Pacheco's front door to talk with her about the post.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to show you a picture to make sure it's you, we're not sure.

RAQUEL PACHECO, MIAMI BEACH RESIDENT: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that your account?

PACHECO: I refuse to answer questions without my lawyer present, so I really don't know how to answer that question either.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Like I said --

PACHECO: And this is freedom of speech, this is America, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: It went on from there. We reached out to Mayor Meiner for comment. His office has not responded. In a statement, Miami Beach Police Chief Wayne Jones said, "I directed two of my detectives to initiate a brief voluntary conversation regarding certain inflammatory, potentially insightful, false remarks made by a resident to ensure there was no immediate threat to the elected official or the broader community that might emerge as a result of the post." Wild stuff.

This is still the United States of America. Let's bring in Raquel Pacheco, the woman behind the video. Just for the record, Raquel, I'm not taking a position on what you wrote, whether I like it, whether I don't like it. You have a right to say it, though. There's no threat of violence at all. In your view, what exactly happened when detectives showed up at your door?

PACHECO: Well, first of all, thank you for having me and highlighting the story. I think it's critical time in America for this story. My initial reaction was shock and awe. And then, you know, I'm still processing. I'm trying to understand what in that comment would incite an action on their part like this. So, you know, from their own words, they were here because they were concerned that my words might incite violence or that people might agree with what I say. So that I think is the most shocking aspect of that visit.

TAPPER: I want to play a little bit more of the video in this part. The officer seems to indicate what he feels the issue is. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, the concerning part and not concerning for the person who's posting it, we're just trying to prevent somebody else getting agitated or agreeing with the statement. We're not saying it's true or not.

PACHECO: Understood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That guy who consistently calls for the death of all Palestinians, that can probably incite somebody to do something radical. That's all we're here to talk about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, I assume you were speaking. I don't know. Hyperbolically, he hasn't called for the death of all Palestinians, but he is a supporter of the war in Gaza. You explain what did you intend to mean? What did you mean by that part, death of all Palestinians?

PACHECO: Sure. First, I'd like to start out by pointing with the whole the entire point of that post was, which was the intention was to point to his hypocrisy.

TAPPER: Sure.

PACHECO: If you read the mayor's post itself, he's making a statement that everyone is welcome here. But he is -- the post itself is directed at a very specific audience. Additionally, he implies that Mayor Mamdani in New York has removed restrictions of protections for the Jewish community, which is just false. And this is also coming from a man who took out billboards after Mayor Mamdani was elected, telling people to come escape here. So all I'm hearing is dog whistles.

And that doesn't sound like a very welcoming message. Additionally, as I pointed out, he won't stand up for the LGBT community at all. He tried to shut down a theater because it offended his feelings. And so there's a pattern here. There's a pattern of abuse of power. I can go on and on about the no camping ordinances where homeless people can't even sleep on the street here or take a nap. Removing people, Americans who want to live on boats, removing them from the bay. I mean, there's just -- there's a theme here. And I think, you know, it just sort of escalated on Monday, January 12th at my door.

TAPPER: Yes. So, you know what? Let me back up a sec, because the issue isn't really what you believe. The issue isn't really your political beliefs or your views of the mayor. The issue is whether or not you have the right to say it without being harassed by people in power. Did you receive any communication from the mayor's office or the police before they came to your door?

[17:40:10]

PACHECO: Absolutely none. And they showed up at my door in plain clothes and there was no marked vehicle outside of my door. And given the current climate and the fact that my neighborhood is rich with immigrants --

TAPPER: Yes.

PACHECO: -- I was very concerned mutually.

TAPPER: You're an army vet.

PACHECO: But yes, your point, the argument here is not whether you agree with what I say or don't.

TAPPER: Yes.

PACHECO: And, you know, as much as I agree with disagree with the mayor, I would still advocate for his right to take whatever position he wants on the subject.

TAPPER: Sure. One last question. You're an army veteran. Put what happened to you in context to the fact that you served your country.

PACHECO: It's earth shattering. You know, it felt like a death. I cried a lot that evening after the initial shock and anger. It felt like, you know, I'm also an immigrant and I was born a refugee. So, you know, I came to America and that freedom people talk about when they come to America, that you can taste the freedom in the air. And that's the most immediate feeling that we all have as immigrants when we come here. And then at that moment, it was shattered for me.

And having served, you know, my country for six years and I'm a decorated soldier. It was very insulting coming from a man who has never served a day in uniform.

TAPPER: Well, we believe in free speech on this show. And Raquel Pacheco, you have certainly earned it. You don't have to be a decorated army veteran to have the right to free speech, but it doesn't hurt. Raquel, thanks for joining us. Really appreciate it.

PACHECO: Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. TAPPER: Before President Trump left Davos today, he got in one last parting shot at NATO. We're going to talk about it with a former Trump White House press secretary and his new, I don't know, what do you what do you guys call yourselves, a podcast? What a -- anyway, your new chat team over there? We're going to talk to them in a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:46:01]

TAPPER: Our Politics Lead, before leaving Davos today, President Trump spoke with "Fox Business" and said this about the United States' NATO allies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've never needed them. We have never really asked anything of them. You know, they'll say they sent some troops to Afghanistan or this or that, and they did. They stayed a little back, little off the front lines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So just a quick fact check. Denmark, a founding member of NATO and a staunch ally of the U.S., the one that owns Greenland, is one of the countries that did in fact send troops to Afghanistan and Iraq, for that matter. They did not stay back, though, in Afghanistan. As "The Military Times" reports, "44 Danish soldiers were killed in Afghanistan, the highest per capita death toll among coalition forces. Eight more died in Iraq."

The claim also was fact checked by NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte, who, according to "The Atlantic," met with President Trump and privately told him, "For every two Americans who paid the ultimate price in Afghanistan, there was one soldier from another NATO country who did not come back to his family."

Joining us now are the members of "The Huddle." It's an online daily political show with veteran journalist Rachael Bade, who we've had on before, Democratic strategist, Dan Turrentine, and former Trump White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer from the first term. Dan, let me just start with you. What's your reaction to Trump's comments about the NATO troops?

DAN TURRENTINE, CO-HOST, "THE HUDDLE": Look, any additional soldiers that come into a war zone is a U.S. soldier that's not having to serve. And you just talked about the fact that some of them paid the ultimate price. That is obviously one less son or daughter that, you know, was able to stay in the United States. I think any time you're denigrating troops, whether it's our own or somebody else's, it's not a good look. But this isn't the first time the President's done it.

TAPPER: So let's talk about the Greenland deal, which we're still waiting for the details of. It was in that same interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: We will have all, everything we want. We're getting everything we want at no cost. We're going to have total access to Greenland. We're going to have all military access that we want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Is that any different from what we could have had without all the kerfuffle, the U.S.?

RACHAEL BADE, CO-HOST, "THE HUDDLE": It's a good question, and so far it doesn't seem to be. I mean, maybe there's some details that we haven't seen yet on minerals or, you know, U.S. investment. But yes, I mean, look, the Danes came out and said that the U.S. could increase their national security presence, and that's essentially what this looks like.

I mean, I think, and I wrote about this in my stepsack yesterday, the President, you know, he had to make a deal here. I mean, the reality is the polling was against him here in the U.S. It's polling worse than, you know, the administration's handling of the Epstein files. Republicans were freaking out about this.

You have the chaos that's happening in Minnesota with ICE and, you know, the tariffs that he was threatening to slap on if, you know, he couldn't acquire Greenland. That was, you know, causing an issue in the market. So, look, he had to find an off-ramp, and that's part of negotiations, right? No one to drive a hard bargain, no one to find an off-ramp, and he needed to find one.

TAPPER: Sean, I know I don't need to tell a former Navy man that it is actually important that there be a U.S. presence in that part of the world. What do you -- what's your take on it all?

SEAN SPICER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, I think it's great. I mean, obviously, this is strategically huge for us. I mean, Russia poses a massive threat. It's not just the minerals. It's not just the location. But if there's ever a nuclear strike, the second- strike capability of those subs is to come right through that strait. I mean, that's a fact. And so the more that we can position ourselves, the better.

And I think the devil is going to be in the details, because having access to the land and having a long-time, lifetime guarantee to that land is very different. The President used the word licensing and leasing prior to meeting with NATO. That's important. Are we there as their guest, or do we have unfettered and long-time access to that plant so that we can set up military operations that we don't ever have to worry about getting pulled out? That's crucial. And if that's what the President got, that's a huge win for the United States and our national security.

TAPPER: One of the most interesting things about this, just to take a step back, is the relationship that he has with the NATO Secretary General, Mark Rutte. And Rutte really tries to be as much of a Trump whisperer, a Trump explainer, a Trump booster as possible. Take a listen to Rutte here talking. He's talking about NATO's new goal of spending 5 percent every country in NATO, spending 5 percent of GDP on defense by 2035.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:50:00]

MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: If President Trump would not have been reelected as president of the United States, no way. It would never have happened. So again, I'm not popular with you now because I'm defending Donald Trump, but I really believe we can be happy that he is there because he has forced us in Europe to step up to face the consequences, that we have to take care more of our own defense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: It is true that Trump pushing other countries very strongly in the first term, to the point that people thought that, were worried that he might pull out of the NATO alliance, got other countries to increase their GDP to 2 percent, which was a commitment that they, many of them had long ignored.

TURRENTINE: Oh, absolutely. Look, he's accentuating the positive. That is a smart thing to do in instances where you have a lot that you disagree with. Absolutely. I don't think a future president, Democrat or Republican is going to go to Europe and say, actually, you know what guys, you don't need to do this anymore. We'll bear the burden.

BADE: It's also how you get to the President. I mean, it's just, whether you like it or not, flattery is the way to his heart. I mean, think about how Emmanuel Macron came out and said that he was not going to join the board of peace or there was some sort of reporting on that. That set the President off that night when he started, you know, tweeting and sending all these Truth Socials and putting up these A.I. memes of the U.S. taking over Greenland.

TAPPER: Yes.

BADE: He reacted poorly to it, right? And then you have this sort of strategy, kiss up to him and, you know, he makes a deal on Greenland.

SPICER: Too often we end up talking about the process. So whether it's Greenland or NATO contributions, look at what we get at the end as a country. For decades, NATO flaunted their own commitments to NATO. Assuming that the United States would just always have their back, we would pick up the tab, they could invest money in domestic, you know, welfare operations, social causes, roads, bridges, et cetera, while we footed the bill, right?

President Trump forced them to do that. On Greenland, we end up better. At the end of the day, the question you have to ask yourself, whether it's the economy or national security, is are we a better country? Will we be a stronger, more prosperous place at the end of this? And right now, on those two issues alone, the answer is yes.

TURRENTINE: But I'm not sure with Greenland, though, that's necessarily the case because you started this segment by saying we already had a military presence there. We didn't get other stuff. At least with Venezuela, you can say, all right, there's oil coming back to the United States, gas prices are coming down. I guess this is helping me.

SPICER: We don't know that yet, Dan. I mean, I think that --

TURRENTINE: But if you had good news, you'd say it.

SPICER: He did say it. I mean, he walked through the framework, and obviously there's a lot more to come. But I think it's fair to judge it when that happens and then say, did we get a lot more, a little more, or nothing at all? But until then, at least the early indications are that we got a lot more security and stability of our military presence in that region.

TAPPER: Let me just interrupt for one second because we only have a couple minutes left, and I do want to get your guys' thoughts on this board of peace. The President held a signing ceremony today at Davos before he left. The ceremony was attended by representatives from 20 countries. Here's what the president told CNN's Kaitlan Collins about some of the members, some of the countries he's invited to join.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUTTE: And when it comes to the Arctic, I think President Trump --

TRUMP: I have some controversial people on, but these are people that get the job done. These are people that have tremendous influence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That's one way to put it. The other way, "The Financial Times" puts it that the board includes, "six monarchs, three ex-Soviet apparatchiks, two military-backed regimes, and a leader sought by the International Criminal Court for alleged war crimes." It is not exactly a list of NATO allies, this board of peace, but what's your thought?

BADE: Yes, I mean, Putin? Putin's going to be joining this? I mean, I think there are a lot of Republicans, probably, who don't love this. But look, he's the one choosing right now, and we'll see if people decide not to join because of these memberships.

SPICER: Again, here's what I'd say. I don't -- I'm not a big fan of a lot of the folks on that list. But at the end of the day, if it keeps the peace, if it gets us talking and prevents future war, future destruction, future lives being lost, again, going back to the process, isn't that what we all want?

TAPPER: Yes.

BADE: The question is the R.C. picking these people because he thinks they will do what he wants, or is he picking them because the people that perhaps should be on that board don't want to be part of it, right?

TAPPER: Or is he picking them because they said yes? BADE: Well, that's what I mean.

TURRENTINE: Yes. That is not in a murderer's row of an all-star lineup of nations, and I think, you know, again, accentuating the positive.

TAPPER: Dan, Sean, Rachael, thanks for being here. Come back soon. Great to have you.

SPICER: The DCHuddle.com.

TAPPER: And the DCHuddle.com. And it's been one month. Congratulations again.

TURRENTINE: Thank you.

[17:54:17]

TAPPER: Coming up next, a sobering announcement today from legendary musician, Phil Collins.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Pop Cultural Lead, legendary musician, Phil Collins, revealing he now has 24-hour live-in nurse care due to his health issues. The British rock star who will turn 75 later this month. He's had five knee surgeries and he suffers from kidney issues. Phil Collins said he hopes to be totally mobile and healthy, but he's unsure whether he will ever be able to perform live again.

Also in our Pop Culture Lead, the blockbuster film "Sinners" broke records today with 16 Oscar nominations. Ryan Coogler's genre defying vampire-horror period drama surpassed the previous record holders for the most Oscar nominations for one single film, "All About Eve" and "Titanic" and "La La Land" each had 14. Despite critical acclaim and huge success at the box office, "Sinners" was snubbed at the Golden Globes with nominations for directing or for acting. I guess 16 Oscar nominations might make up for it. "Sinners" was not the only film racking up nominations. Paul Thomas Anderson's "One Battle After Another" scored 13 nominations, setting up a pretty competitive race for the best picture award. Which will win? All will be revealed when the academy awards air on March 15th with friend of the show returning host, Conan O'Brien.

[18:00:01]

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, nearly 125 million Americans are under winter storm watches. Tonight, fort shaping up to be one of the most --