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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Trump Tries To Salvage M.N. Immigration Operation Amid Backlash; How Minnesotans Coordinated A Network To Observe ICE Operations; Mayor Kaohly Her (D), Is Interviewed About Trump Going To "De-Escalate A Little Bit" In Minneapolis; Sen. Fetterman Urges Trump To Fire DHS Secretary Noem. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired January 27, 2026 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:00:31]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: President Trump says you're a stupid person if you don't think the Alex Pretti shooting was unfortunate. The Lead starts right now.
President Trump says he's going to personally oversee a quote, "honorable" investigation into the death of Alex Pretti, the VA ICU nurse shot and killed by federal agents on Saturday. This hour, a brand new CNN interview with the woman in the pink jacket who captured the killing on her cell phone. And Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro will be here on The Lead. How he's preparing for possible immigration raids in Pennsylvania as he calls on Trump to end his operation in Minnesota. Plus, yet another winter storm shaping up.
Who's going to get hit by the bomb cyclone as the record setting deep freeze takes over much of the country?
Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. The lead tonight, as if the last year of immigration raids didn't happen, President Trump is trying to fix his current political crisis with a new message and messenger for Minneapolis and the rest of us as we watch in shock as the city reels from federal officers shooting and killing 37-year-old VA ICU nurse Alex Pretti on Saturday. And administration officials almost immediately taken to microphones and Twitter to lie to our faces about what went down. Here's President Trump this afternoon taking questions about that in Iowa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you agree with the assessment from some of your own officials that Alex Pretti is a domestic terrorist or an assassin?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITES STATES: Well, I haven't heard that, but certainly he shouldn't have been carrying a gun. But all of -- hey, look, bottom line, everybody in this room, we view that as a very unfortunate incident. OK? Everyone, unless you're a stupid person. Very, very unfortunate incident. I don't like that he had a gun. I don't like that he had two fully loaded magazines. That's a lot of bad stuff. And despite that, I say that's a very unfortunate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: He doesn't like that he had a gun. Interesting. Meanwhile, the president is, of course, directly contradicting the message that his top aide Stephen Miller spouted on social media Saturday immediately after the shooting before any investigation when he called him an assassin and a message reposted by Vice President J.D. Vance. And we should note that neither has taken down that false accusation or apologized to Alex Pretti's grieving family.
This morning Trump was firm about the future of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, who also immediately shared falsehoods with the American people about Pretti, saying that he brandished a gun, which he did not, and was there to massacre law enforcement officers, which there is literally zero evidence to support. Sources say Trump met with Noem and her top adviser, Corey Lewandowski, for nearly two hours on Monday night. Is Kristi Noem going to step down?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is Kristi Noem going to step down?
TRUMP: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you happy with Kristi Noem right now?
TRUMP: I am, yes. I think she's doing a very good job. (END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Even congressional Republicans, however, have been critical of the Trump administration's response to the crisis, including Kristi Noem. And now Democrats are leveling impeachment threats against her. Amidst this storm, Trump is pushing changes in Minnesota, with top Border Patrol official Gregory Bovino expected to depart the city today. Border czar Tom Homan, Trump's new head of operations in Minnesota, is already meeting with Governor Tim Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey today. The public about face from the Trump administration has not yet come with any details about how or if federal immigration operations will begin to scale down in the state. Sources now tell CNN that federal immigration officers have been collecting personal information about the people they call protesters and agitators in Minneapolis.
That includes Alex Pretti before he was shot and killed by agents on Saturday. Apparently because Pretti had been involved in an earlier altercation after observing ICE agents, as he told a source, chase a family on foot. Pretti shouted and began blowing his whistle. And that's when he says or said five agents tackled him and one leaned on his back, leaving him with a broken rib. The source tells CNN that that day he thought he was going to die.
All of this coming as President Trump tries to change the subject and turn the page from this story, bringing the attention back to the economy with a speech that he will soon deliver in Iowa. Let's bring in CNN's Kristen Holmes is at the White House.
Kristen, President Trump barely got a word in about the economy before he was asked about Minnesota.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and with reason, right? I mean, President Trump also wants to talk about Minnesota. It's in the news. It's something that's on the tip of his tongue. I do have a couple of notes that I want to quickly make.
[17:05:01]
When it comes to this administration changing their structure, changing what they're doing when it comes to immigration in Minnesota, there is a big change just in the sense that Kristi Noem is out and Tom Homan is in and Bovino is out. And we just saw President Trump in an interview kind of dismissing Bovino, who had been a main messenger here of his operation in Minneapolis, saying he was a pretty out there kind of guy and that sometimes that's good, but maybe in this case, it's not so good. Now, of course, as we know, Homan is in the room. And one thing to notice, Jake, Homan is by no means a moderate on immigration. He's incredibly hardliner.
But given the rhetoric we've heard out of this administration, he appears to be more down the middle or at least wants to take things slower. That's what his strategy has been behind closed doors. Now, President Trump described what this kind of back and forth, pulling Noem out, pulling Bovino out, putting Tom Homan in as a business shakeup. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I do that all the time. I shake up teams. Everybody here, these are a lot of owners of farms and places, and you shake up your team if they can't do the crops fast enough. Look, we have an incredible team.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: So sure, it is a shakeup. But one thing is clear, we know that this administration wanted to turn down the temperature. And getting those two officials out and putting Homan in is one way they thought they could do that. Now, quickly, when it comes to Secretary Noem, just one thing to keep in mind, all of this kind of pushback, we've seen from White House officials as they distance her rhetoric from President Trump. One of the things we reported on Saturday from multiple officials that I was told, including White House officials, was that Kristi Noem was in constant touch with this White House, that she was going through various talking points, that she was briefing them on how she was going to approach this when she came to her press conference.
Now, of course, we have learned that past that press conference, President Trump grew agitated with the coverage and how the response from his own administration officials, including Noem, was playing out, made his administration look. But again, all of this was coming at the time from within the White House.
TAPPER: All right, Kristen, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Kristen Holmes.
Let's now break this down with Chad Mizelle, who served at the Justice Department as chief of staff under Attorney General Pam Bondi. And he was previously general counsel at the Department of Homeland Security in the first Trump administration.
Chad, thanks for being with us. So obviously a lot of people in the Trump administration are behind the scenes as you know, I'm sure, blaming the chaos of the last few weeks in Minneapolis on Greg Bovino, the Border Patrol commando. Do you agree and do you think that the tone, maybe even the operation will change with Tom Homan in charge?
CHAD MIZELLE, FORMER JUSTICE DEPT. CHIEF OF STAFF: Jake, I very much don't agree with that. First off, thank you so much for having me on board. If you want to lay blame at somebody's feet, it is squarely on Tim Walz and the Minnesota officials who have called ICE the modern day Gestapo, who have told ICE, get the F out of our six city, who have encouraged their citizens to protest against ICE, to blow whistles against ICE, to organize signal chats against ICE. You know, not the signal chats thing directly, but all of that type of agitation has been heavily encouraged. And it's exactly that type of agitation that leads to unfortunate circumstances, like we saw with Alex Pretti.
TAPPER: So you have an issue with the First Amendment. You don't think that people should be exercising their First Amendment rights to speak about policies that they don't like. You have a more of a problem with that than you have with people killing American citizens. Did I get that right?
MIZELLE: Jake, do you actually think you have a First Amendment right to blow a whistle in the ear of law enforcement, to disobey a lawful command from law enforcement, to interfere with a law enforcement investigation, to carry a gun without a proper ID or license as is required under Minnesota law, and then to violently resist arrest? You think you have a First Amendment right to do all that, Jake? TAPPER: So you think that he should have been killed? It was all his
fault?
MIZELLE: I didn't say that at all, Jake. But what you are trying to do is --
TAPPER: Do I think that you have a First Amendment right to blow a whistle? You're taking issue with somebody. You don't think that they have a First Amendment right to blow a whistle? And just FYI, in the terms of not having your ID on you, that's like a negligible misdemeanor in Minnesota. That's not some major crime.
MIZELLE: Jake, the question is, if you're going over the speed limit, are you following the law, are you breaking the law? That's what we're asking ourselves here. If there's an ongoing law enforcement operation --
TAPPER: No, we're asking if like I'm breaking the speed limit -- if I'm breaking the speed limit, does an officer have a right to shoot and kill me? I think that's really what the question is.
MIZELLE: No, what you're trying to say is that he was perfectly law abiding. And I'm saying from the very get go, Alex Pretti was not following the law, Jake. And you're saying, well, he had a First Amendment right. You don't have a First Amendment right to break the law.
TAPPER: What law did he break?
MIZELLE: He interfered with an ongoing law enforcement investigation, that is a felony.
TAPPER: By doing -- by --
MIZELLE: He then --
TAPPER: -- by doing what, by filming it?
[17:09:57]
MIZELLE: No, Jake, as you know if -- before this video, why was Border Patrol even there? Why was ICE there? They were trying to apprehend an illegal alien who had locked himself inside a donut shop and was being aided by the donut shop workers. So Border Patrol was calling for backup. And while they were waiting for backup and trying to clear out the street, because it was an active operation, there were individuals who were interfering with that.
Resisting the lawful command of a law enforcement officer is a crime. And then whenever you resist arrest, that's an additional crime. And if you have a gun with you while you're committing an act of violence, in this case, potentially against a law enforcement officer, Jake, that's a third crime. So there's a huge crime --
TAPPER: You know, that there's video -- you know that there's -- Chad, you know, there's video of this, right? I mean, you're accusing -- you're accusing Alex Pretti of committing violence.
MIZELLE: Jake, (inaudible).
TAPPER: You know we -- you know we can see what happened, right? I mean, you're aware that there's video of this, and we saw that the officers --
MIZELLE: Did you not see him wrestling?
TAPPER: I saw five or six officers wrestling him --
MIZELLE: Did you not see him wrestling in those videos, Jake?
TAPPER: I saw five or six officers wrestling him to the ground while he was holding up his camera.
MIZELLE: Why does it take five or six officers to wrestle a single individual? Why does it take five or six people to wrestle a single individual only if that individual is resisting arrest, Jake? You just proved my point.
TAPPER: I -- no, I don't think I did. Five or six officers jumping on somebody who obviously was immediately on the ground. And one hand was on the ground and one hand was holding his camera is not evidence that six people needed to be doing that. That's like saying he deserved to be shot. Otherwise, why would the officers have shot him?
You really don't think that they did anything -- that there's any question about whether or not this man deserved to be shot? You really think that this is -- this was fine, this was a fine act? Because I don't even think there are people in the Trump administration who are arguing that.
MIZELLE: Jake, that -- to be clear, I'm not saying that this is a fine act. I think that to take President Trump's terms, this is incredibly unfortunate. And so as I try to rewind the clock and say, how could we avoid this, I start with not two minutes before the incident happened, but 10 minutes before the incident happened, and say, well, if we didn't have individuals in a donut shop harboring an illegal alien, by the way, another crime, then you wouldn't have had this situation where Border Patrol is outside in the streets calling for backup and trying to clear the streets out in front of a active law enforcement operation.
TAPPER: Chad, if you're -- so --
MIZELLE: That one act --
TAPPER: -- if you're so offended --
MIZELLE: -- Jake, Alex Pretti would still be alive today.
TAPPER: Yes. If you're so offended by the notion that Tim Walz, the governor, was saying things, exercising his free speech rights, saying things that maybe I don't agree with, but he has the right to say them, and that incited these people, but you -- but you don't think that Trump on January 6, 2021 was saying anything that incited that crowd. Explain that to me, because it just doesn't make any sense. Why is Tim Walz inciting these activities, but President Trump was not?
MIZELLE: Jake, I don't even understand the distinction or the analogy you're trying to draw. What I'll say here is you ask --
TAPPER: Well, the analogy is basically that it seems to be the people in the Trump administration, and I guess that includes you, even though you're a former member, think that there's one set of rules for Trump supporters and another set of rules for people who are not Trump supporters, like people who assault law enforcement --
MIZELLE: This is the beauty --
TAPPER: -- people who assault law enforcement on January 6th, that's fine. They should be given pardons. But people who assault law enforcement, and I don't think Alex Pretti, that describes him, that's not allowed. People who are MAGA supporters and carry guns with them to protests, that's fine. But Alex Pretti should not have had a gun on him, even though he was a concealed weapon holder. And it's just like it doesn't make any sense to most Americans because it's really just supposed to be one set of laws and one set of rules.
MIZELLE: Jake, it's incredibly simple. There is one set of law. There are one set of rules. And for the first time, we actually have a secretary of Homeland Security who is trying to enforce that law. Unlike her predecessor, Alex Mayorkas, who led in 13 million illegal aliens, she has a single job, get those 13 million illegal aliens out of our country and secure the border.
And that's exactly what she's trying to do. So actually, for the first time, we actually have a Department of Homeland Security who is following the law. And the fact that you, Jake, and the fact that a lot of people in the Democrat Party are actually criticizing her shows that everything you're saying is empty rhetoric. You don't want one set of laws to follow, otherwise you'd be happy with immigration laws.
TAPPER: You have absolutely no idea what my opinion on the border is or about immigration enforcement. But just to share it with you, I think that any country has a right to borders that are secure. And I think that people in this country should be in this country legally. So your assumption is wrong. But last time I checked, there wasn't a border in Minneapolis. And last time I checked, Alex Pretti was not in a border.
MIZELLE: Are there illegal aliens in Minneapolis?
TAPPER: They're all over. There are a lot more of them in Texas and Florida, but for some reason, the administration doesn't seem interested in them.
Chad Mizelle, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.
[17:15:01]
CNN is working on a special town hall for tomorrow night called State of Emergency: Confronting the Crisis in Minnesota. Anderson Cooper and Sara Sidner will moderate the discussion with residents in Minneapolis and community leaders. That's Tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern only here on CNN and on the CNN app.
Coming up next, CNN's interview with the woman in the pink jacket who was up close when Alex Pretti was shot and filming it from a remarkable angle. And later, the mayor of St. Paul, Minnesota, that's the other one of the Twin Cities. It's a stone's throw from Minneapolis. We're going to get her take on the mood in that region as Trump switches up who's leading his immigration operation.
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TAPPER: We have some breaking news in our national lead. CNN is learning brand new exclusive details about the officers involved in Saturday's fatal shooting of Alex Pretti, a VA ICU nurse in Minneapolis. Let's get right to CNN's Priscilla Alvarez who has the report.
Priscilla, what are you learning?
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake. We are now learning that two officers fired during that fatal encounter with Alex Pretti this past Saturday, according to an initial report to Congress from the Department of Homeland Security and reviewed by CNN. A report that also says that they attempted to take him into custody. So let me walk you through this. This is the report from Customs and Border Protection's initial investigation into the shooting of Pretti.
[17:20:07]
It says that an officer yelled, quote, "he's got a gun" multiple times before two officers fired as that struggle ensued that we have seen in videos. And I'm going to quote here from the report, it says, quote, "CBP personnel attempted to take Pretti into custody. Pretti resisted CBP personnel's efforts and a struggle ensued." It goes on to say, quote, "During the struggle, a border patrol age, he's got a gun multiple times. Approximately five seconds later, a Border Patrol agent discharged his CBP issues Glock 19.
And a Customs and Border Protection officer also discharged his CBP issued Glock 47 at Pretti." What it does not specifically say is whether the bullets fired from these law enforcement officers hit Pretti. Now, it also gives us a little bit about what happened afterwards. This report again provided to lawmakers as after the shooting, and I'm quoting here, "A border Patrol agent advised he had possession of Pretti's firearm. The BPA subsequently cleared and secured that firearm in his vehicle."
Goes on to say that the personnel, quote, "Cut Pretti's clothing and provided medical aid to him by placing chest seals on his wounds." Now, of course, Jake, as you know, there would be an internal review and we're getting some of it within the Customs and Border Protection Agency. Those were the officers involved in the shooting. The Department of Homeland Security is leading the investigation, the FBI in a supportive role. But we are now learning new details in this initial report from the Department of Homeland Security that went to Congress.
But of course, this is still an ongoing investigation. Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Priscilla Alvarez with the breaking news for us. Thank you so much.
Also new this hour, the woman in the pink jacket who took one of the videos showing Alex Pretti struggling with federal agents is speaking with CNN. Let's get right to CNN's Anderson Coopers who is in Minneapolis.
Anderson, what did this woman tell you? We all saw her from those early videos in the pink jacket filming and then finally that video came and that's the most revealing video yet.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, her video is really essential in any investigation that is going to take place or may take place in the future. I spoke to her earlier this morning. We're going to be playing that the full interview tonight. But I just want to play some of what she said. I asked her about some of the things that Kristi Noem had said about what Alex Pretti did.
Let's take a -- let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Kristi Noem said this looks like a situation where an individual arrived at the scene to inflict maximum damage on individuals and to kill law enforcement. Is that at all what was happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely not. And the most offensive thing you could say about somebody who has done so much for our country and which I didn't even know at the time, but what I did know is this person was calm and was handling it with grace and consistency and definitely without threat.
COOPER: One of the things that's shocking about the number of shots is that the last five shots or so are actually from a distance where he appears already lying on the ground, not moving. Do you remember that? Again, this is happening in five to 10 seconds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, honestly, Alex being shot is the most memorable part of it. The agents are not a part of that. I think because I watched him die. I mean, I watched him die. I remember him arching his back and his head rolling back and he look, it was so fast moving, but not for me. Like when they left -- when they fleed, which now I see, that after the shooting they decided to just scatter and save themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And she has been carefully thinking about what to do these last few days, about whether or not she should come forward, whether she should show her face and reveal her name. She, she has chosen to do that. And as I said, we'll have more tonight, Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Anderson, thank you so much. Keep doing the great reporting there. We're going to see you tonight with that full interview on "AC360" at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
[17:24:15]
Coming up next, some of the people behind the cameras in Minneapolis, hear from the so called ICE observers who say that they're there to monitor and document the actions of federal agents. What one observer told CNN when asked if they know that they're putting their lives at risk.
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TAPPER: President Trump is speaking now in Iowa. Let's take a listen for a little bit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: -- 48 years. I remember recently I said the highest inflation, the worst, I believe this, by the way, worse than the history of our country. They said it wasn't the worst. It was 48 years. I said, that's OK, too.
Somehow that sounds even worse than when you say the history, right? Forty-eight years. I accepted that. But I think it was in the history. A mass invasion of our border and our country was being laughed at all over the world. We were being laughed at.
We were a joke, but not a joke anymore. We're not a joke. We're not being laughed at anymore. But today, just after one year of President Trump, our economy is booming, incomes are rising, investment is soaring, inflation has been defeated. Our border is closed, totally closed.
And America is respected all over the world like they've never been respected. One year. I thought it would take us two years. I guess I'm following in the great path of John Deere. We got the chairman of John Deere here, chairman and CEO.
That's pretty good. I even signed a John Deere hat for him. He said, I'm going to put this in the museum. I said, that's good. No, it's a great company, great company. And you just said you're opening up two massive plants because of tariffs. You're opening up one in North Carolina, one someplace else.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[17:30:14]
TAPPER: So that's President Trump there in Iowa. We're going to continue to monitor his remarks. We're going to turn back to Minneapolis, though, in a closer look at ICE observers. This is a network of protesters who routinely engage monitoring federal officers who are conducting immigration enforcement. This is an organized group who say that they're monitoring ISIS movements in real time and then blasting out the information for others to swarm the enforcement sites.
CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is on the ground in Minneapolis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The sound of ICE observer whistles descending on an Indian restaurant in Minneapolis, after a group tracked two off duty federal immigration agents eating dinner inside. The observers are part of a neighborhood grassroots. Some figures in the Trump administration have labeled domestic terrorists.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, guys, I'm on Franklin Ave, just patrolling back and forth towards Lyndale.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Local citizens tracking and documenting ICE operations in real time. CNN saw how a local group operates from the inside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're on Franklin Avenue and the request is for us to sort of keep an eye on this strip.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): This woman is fearful and didn't want to be named or show her face on camera. She drives through her neighborhood scanning for signs of ICE activity, staying in constant contact with other volunteer observers, mostly through the encrypted chat platform Signal, ready to alert others if agents appear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think people do this work because it works. Finding an ICE car and observing what it's doing will deter ICE from activity. I've seen more people jump in over the past two weeks than I ever have.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Through local meetings and group chats, thousands of observers coordinate across the Twin Cities.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not ICE.
PROKUPECZ: You were just looking to see if that car was ICE?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
PROKUPECZ: They log suspected ICE vehicle information into a shared database, then post locations in real time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are telltale signs, tinted windows, SUV, two drivers, usually male, wearing sort of like military gear.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): When agents are spotted, observers swarm, whistling, chanting and recording.
PROKUPECZ: I watched that network mobilize here. The observers came to this location after they learned that two off duty ICE officers were inside having dinner. They tracked them based on the vehicle they were driving. That car was parked over here. Someone saw the license plate. They put it in a database that they have been collecting of ICE vehicles here. And then all of a sudden, several more of the observers started showing up. And at some point they confronted the ICE officers who were inside.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): On Sunday, Vice President J.D. Vance tweeted about an incident matching this description, claiming the ICE officers were docs, the restaurant was mob and the agents were locked inside. He blamed the ICE observers and local police for creating chaos and linked it to Alex Pretti's death.
PROKUPECZ: The protesters were outside here. Some of them went inside and confronted the off duty ICE officers. They were not violent. And the ICE officers, realizing who they were, called for backup. The backup arrived and was able to take them outside. And what the protesters were doing is much of what we've been seeing, blowing whistles and yelling at them and telling them to get out of their city. PROKUPECZ (voice-over): ICE observer citizen video documenting federal enforcement activity has become vital as the encounters with ICE have escalated, often contradicting the Trump administration's public account of events.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Many observers have been stopped simply for observing government activity or documenting what they're doing with their cell phones or yelling at them on the street. And that's all constitutionally protected activity. And if the government feels like the fact that people are witnessing what they're doing and spreading the word about it and protesting it, is interference with it. It just shows how wrong that government activity is.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): After two of their own were killed in altercations with federal officers, the dangers of this work are clear.
PROKUPECZ: Even with that, with all the dangers associated with it, that doesn't faze you or stop you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's a call for people who are in positions of privilege to go out and exercise their rights to witness what's going on and try and do something about it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PROKUPECZ (on camera): And Jake, even today we saw some of these observers out and about in the streets area. There's no sign that they're going to let up. Even though with Greg Bovino leaving and perhaps there is some de-escalation, they're going to continue this work. They feel it's important. And it's not only happening here, it's happening in other places that we've seen immigration and law enforcement officials.
[17:35:03]
TAPPER: All right. Shimon Prokupecz on the streets of Minneapolis, thanks so much.
What does President Trump's changing of the guard slight de-escalation in Minnesota mean for the people on the ground? We're going to talk to the mayor of St. Paul. That's the other of the Twin Cities near Minneapolis live next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Our National Lead now is top Border Patrol official Greg Bovino is set to leave Minneapolis as soon as today. Minnesotans tell CNN that they are happy to see him go, but they remain apprehensive about whether anything will truly change under Bovino's replacement, Trump orders czar Tom Homan. President Trump spoke about this change just moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have Tom Homan there now. We put him in there. He's great. And they met with the governor, the mayor, everybody else and we're going to de-escalate a little bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[17:40:00]
TAPPER: Let's discuss with the newly elected mayor of the other Twin Cities, St. Paul's Kaohly Her. Thank you so much for being with us. How do you interpret the President's claim that they're going to, "de- escalate a little bit?"
MAYOR KAOHLY HER (D), ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA: You know, I think that having Bovino leave the Twin Cities is a good start, but I think that de-escalation has to go far more than just changing up an individual. And you know, the rhetoric that is being used, the way we categorize or talk about our immigrant and refugee communities, you know, the way that incidents here have been recounted by this administration. There's a lot of rhetoric that needs to be toned down and it can't just be changing an individual who is heading the operation.
TAPPER: Do you have any plans to meet with Tom Homan? Do you view him being sent to Minnesota to take charge of operations there as a positive development?
HER: I think that I'm always willing to have conversations. You know, that their team has been reaching out to the different mayors offices and that our whole business that we'll be able, you know, to get a conversation scheduled. But you know, I look forward to it. I think that we have to always explore all options when we're dealing with a crisis of this magnitude.
TAPPER: Madam Mayor, for people who don't know, you were just elected to this position three weeks ago and Renee Good was killed on your third full day, you just talked about the need to de-escalate, bring down the rhetoric. Earlier on the show, there was a former Trump administration official who was blaming Governor Walz and Mayor Frey of Minneapolis for their rhetoric. Do they need to bring down their rhetoric too?
HER: You know, I think that it, boy, this is a really tough question, right? Because I think that there is rhetoric and then there's people telling the truth. And when your community is under attack and you are screaming at the top of your lungs to tell the truth about what you are seeing, I don't know. I find that's really difficult to categorize that as rhetoric, right? When we are saying that we are seeing citizens pulled out of their homes, people with no criminal record, that's not rhetoric. That is the truth. When we are seeing the impact in our communities and businesses down 60, 70 percent and people being targeted by the way that they look and they sound, that's not rhetoric.
That, you know, that is actually the truth that is on the ground. And so I struggle with hearing the truth being called rhetoric, whereas categorizing whole groups of people as murders and rapists and illegal that saying that, you know, people here are not compliant and we want criminals on the street. Like, that's rhetoric. And so I think that we have to be really honest about the conversations that are being had and the way that conversations are being spun and what is rhetoric and what is truth?
TAPPER: So please understand, this is not me making the argument, but I'm just the messenger, as it were. The Trump administration officials taking issue with what the governor and the other mayor are saying. What they cite is references to federal agents as the Gestapo. Mayor Frey saying that ICE needs to get the F out of town. That's more what they're talking about, not factual descriptions of how Minnesotans are feeling in the situation. So that's what they're talking about.
HER: I hear that -- and I hear that, and I think that a reset is really important. Tensions are very high. There is a lot of chaos. People are afraid, there's anxiety. There is a lot that's going on in our cities here, and it's been going on for weeks now. And people have died. They have died at the hands of federal agents. And so it is important for us to reset. It is important for us to restart conversations. And I agree that, you know, I think that we can all come to the table and reshape this conversation.
TAPPER: President Trump's backing the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem after a two-hour long meeting with the Oval Office. But House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries says Democrats are going to seek to impeach Secretary Noem if they regain the House in the fall, if she is not fired. Do you -- does the community of St. Paul, do you have faith in Secretary Noem's ability to continue to lead the Department of Homeland Security?
HER: I think that anytime anybody is in charge of leading really important work, and if there seems to have been either events or actions that are not consistent with our laws and with people's rights, I think that it is important for us to investigate and for us to look into that. And I think that regardless of what side of the aisle you're on, I think that we all want there to be law and order and we all want people in powers of position to work within those powers. And so, you know, I -- we are always for transparency and always for looking for truth and justice.
TAPPER: St. Paul, Minnesota Mayor Kaohly Her, Congratulations, I guess, and thanks so much for being with us today. I mean, it just seems like a tough job is all I mean.
HER: It's a tough job, but that's what we get elected to do, is to meet people in the moment that they're in. And this is the moment right now.
TAPPER: All right. Thank you so much, Madam Mayor.
[17:44:58]
As mentioned, Democrats are demanding Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem be fired for this chaos in Minnesota. They're threatening impeachment if she's not removed. Should she stay or should she go? My panel will weigh in next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Today, Democratic Senator John Fetterman, Democrat of Pennsylvania, is urging President Trump to immediately fire the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem. He posted on social media, "Americans have died. She is betraying DHS's core mission and trashing your border security legacy. Do not make the mistake President Biden made for not firing a grossly incompetent DHS secretary."
When asked if Noem would step down earlier today, President Trump said, "No." Let's talk about this with our panel consisting of former Republican congressman from Florida, Francis Rooney, CNN's Jamie Gangel, and CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Paul Begala.
[17:49:55]
Congressman Rooney, yesterday you posted on social media, "In the last two weeks, ICE has killed two U.S. citizens and now the DOJ, FBI and local law authorities are prevented from joining in the investigation. This is unprecedented U.S. government behavior, common in authoritarian regimes, but not places based on the rule of law." Today, President Trump said he wants a, "Very honorable investigation." Do you think that investigation should include local law enforcement and, you know, field agents, career agents in the FBI and Congress?
FRANCIS ROONEY (R), FORMER FLORIDA REPRESENTATIVE: Well, the historical practice is to include the DOJ, the FBI, and local law enforcement in any geographically based investigation like this Minnesota thing. And what are they trying to hide? Why don't they let everybody in, get all the different opinions?
TAPPER: Well, you tell me, what are they trying to hide?
ROONEY: I think they're trying to hide the fact that these ICE guys, I talked to two police people today that I trust that I work with in Congress. They reminded me that these ICE guys are not trained law enforcement officials, deeply respectful of the Fourth Amendment. They're kind of goons. And I think that needs to be reformed. I think some of the people that you've had on earlier are saying the same thing, that you can't have these vigilantes out there shooting innocent Americans.
TAPPER: Today, House Minority Leader Democrat Hakeem Jeffries of New York posted on social media, "Donald Trump must fire Kristi Noem immediately or Democrats will initiate impeachment proceedings against her in the House. We can do this the easy way or the hard way." Little Brendan Carr of the FCC language there. Paul, Democrats plan to conduct their investigation without Republicans and are unlikely to be able to actually remove the secretary. If they do this when they're in the minority, is that a good idea?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, they should continue to reach out to Republicans. There are a lot. And Congressman Rooney is not the only Republican speaking. He's showing a lot of courage. But I think they could find Republicans to join them and I hope they'll try. There has to be accountability. There has to be. You know, the President and the Vice President are the only ones who have a four year, no cut contract. OK? Everybody else serves the pleasure of the President, but they're -- they work for us. She lives -- Kristi Noem, paid by us, lives in our housing. Everything she does is in our name.
Those poor people, Renee Good, Alex Pretti, they were killed in our name by our employees. And we demand accountability. And this is the fundamental job of Congress. They have to look at it. I think Congressman Rooney is exactly right.
TAPPER: But it's been said, Jamie Gangel, that Trump's policy for the second term is, it's been shorthanded, is no scalps. Meaning I'm not going to appease the mob by firing anybody.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Let's just say not yet. I mean, I think that this time Bovino getting pushed out may have saved Kristi Noem for now, but his polls are terrible. The public reaction to this is not with him. Look, he repeatedly has now said that protesters can't bring guns to protests. Heads are exploding at the NRA right now.
TAPPER: You wouldn't know it to read their social media posts.
GANGEL: Let -- but let's just, let's have a reality check. Let's go to the other side. So let's think back. Michigan State protesters on the other side brought guns in the. McCloskey's in St. Louis.
TAPPER: Spoke at the Republican National Convention.
GANGEL: Kyle Rittenhouse.
TAPPER: Met with President Trump.
GANGEL: And last but not least, President Trump pardoned January 6th protesters who brought guns to the Capitol. So, Congressman Rooney, I'll be honest, I haven't researched your record on gun rights, but I assume as a traditional Republican, especially one from Florida, you've been a supporter of gun rights. What do you make of the fact that the administration is saying all these things like he shouldn't have had a gun, having a gun, if you have a gun on you, even if you have a licensed concealed weapon permit, you should expect that's going to like maybe inflame law enforcement reaction. I mean, there isn't, as far as I know, a carve out for people who don't support President Trump in the Second Amendment.
ROONEY: No, there's not. And it's a bit ironic, as you alluded to, that the people that are opposing guns now are the people that stand most strongly for guns in other circumstances. By the way, I was a proud co-sponsor with Congressman Clyburn of the illuminating the Charleston background check loophole.
TAPPER: Yes. Do you think, Congressman, do you think the President should fire Secretary Noem? We've just heard from Republican Senator Thom Tillis that he thinks she should go.
ROONEY: I think he's got to certainly think about it. Her performance yesterday or day before wasn't very good. And I think she better clean that up or -- TAPPER: Jamie Gangel --
ROONEY: -- go do something else.
[17:54:56]
TAPPER: Jamie Gangel, today, White House border czar Tom Homan met with Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, a Democrat, in this leadership shakeup as it is. You've been covering Homan since he worked with the Obama administration. I mean, he did this job under President Obama. Why do you think President Trump is sending Homan in there and ousting at least now physically, Bovino.
GANGEL: So President Trump just said to de-escalate a little bit --
TAPPER: A little bit.
GANGEL: -- was the quote, let's see what happens. Let's see if the agents actually start conducting themselves differently, not just in Minneapolis, but across the country. But Homan for a minute, this is someone who's been career there. He has served under six presidents. He got an award from President Obama. Jeh Johnson, the former DHS secretary, said he was pleased that Homan was going. What I'm told about Tom Homan is we have seen him be very bombastic in public statements, but behind the scenes he can read a room.
TAPPER: Yes. And Paul, I think you're a gun owner, right? You're from Texas.
BEGALA: Yes, I have two dozen guns.
TAPPER: OK. So --
BEGALA: I'll be hunting on Friday, by the way. I'll be out bird hunting on Friday.
TAPPER: Bird hunting? So a local officials say Alex Pretti lawfully owned his gun.
BEGALA: Right.
TAPPER: He had a concealed weapon permit, although he didn't have the his I.D. on him, which is a fixable $25 ticket, not the felony offense. You'd hear from some people. Take a listen what President Trump said about having a firearm at a protest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You can't have guns. You can't walk in with guns.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the Second Amendment?
TRUMP: You can't walk in with guns. You can't do that. It's just, it's a very unfortunate incident.
(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: So just, I mean, that's over the sound of Marine One. Trump saying, you can't have guns. You can't walk in with the guns. You just can't. You can't walk in with guns. You can't do that.
BEGALA: He wasn't brandishing it. He wasn't even holding it. He was disarmed. Some of the reporting has been in the video that the way I interpret it, he was disarmed before they shot him. So this is a total red herring. I mean, and again, as a gun owner, you shouldn't bring a gun into Mother Emanuel Church. And I didn't hear Mr. Trump speaking about that when parishioners at Bible study were slaughtered or at the El Paso Walmart where a man came for the purpose of murdering Mexicans and Mexican Americans. And I didn't hear President Trump saying he shouldn't have had a gun. So there's a lot of people shouldn't have guns. But a peaceful protester with a legal permit. And that's not where I would begin on gun control.
TAPPER: Thanks to one and all.
In our National Lead, weather forecasters which are fine tuning predictions for another major winter storm that could impact the U.S. East Coast this coming weekend. This one could be a bomb cyclone somewhere off the East Coast. It comes as the death toll from last weekend's winter storm. Bitter cold and prolonged power outages rose to at least 30 people across multiple states. The most significant damage stretches from East Texas through Louisiana, Mississippi and into Nashville, Tennessee. And that's where we find CNN's Isabel Rosales following the struggle to get back to normal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Line workers in Nashville capture the moment they flip the lights back on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got lights.
ROSALES (voice-over): From dawn until dusk, more than 700 of them working to repair the damage left behind by the winter storm. Thousands of customers are still without power in Davidson County, Tennessee, peeking Sunday at a whopping 230,000 customers, marking the largest outage in the history of the Nashville Electric service.
ROSALES: What's been the biggest surprise to you once you finally, like, were able to grasp the extent of the damage?
JAMES HARPER, NASHVILLE ELECTRIC SERVICE EMPLOYEE: Just the amount of people that are without power?
ROSALES (voice-over): Downed trees, electric lines and a bitter cold making the task all the more challenging.
HARPER: It's very demanding. Long hours, cold weather. But these guys are tough.
ROSALES (voice-over): Our cameras rolling as one lineman rescued his colleague stranded up high on his bucket truck. His hydraulic system not working, they believe from the frigid cold. ROSALES: Scenes like this, power lines over the road, not just dangerous, but also blocking first responders from doing the job they need to do.
ROSALES (voice-over): Some families bunkering down with pets and kids in warm hotels. And others in Music City relying on luckier friends.
ROSALES: Raise your hand if you don't have power right now. OK, so that's everybody except you.
DAVID WELSCH, EAST NASHVILLE RESIDENT: Yes, yes.
ROSALES: What is happening here?
WELSCH: So everybody just started losing power with the stories. So everybody came over and we've been like sharing food, pulling resources, kind of just trying to stay warm. People are bringing, there's cats and dogs.
ROSALES (voice-over): And in Bellevue, about 13 miles southwest of downtown Nashville, Danielle Soderholm is outraged.
DANIELLE SODERHOLM, DAUGHTER OF ASSISTED LIVING RESIDENT: I was extremely angry, plus concerned. My mom is 85 years old.
ROSALES (voice-over): She tells me she was forced to pull her elderly mother out of an assisted living facility for her safety after a power outage left their rooms without heat as temperatures plummeted.
SODERHOLM: I think they were extremely unprepared.
ROSALES (voice-over): She shared this picture, her mother's room measuring just 52 degrees.
[18:00:02]
BIHEAIA TILLERY, ASSISTED LIVING RESIDENT: Oh, it's freezing. I wore heavy sweater, heavy pants, a big thick, heavy pullover. I want to be independent, but I can't take that cold.
ROSALES (voice-over): Isabel Rosales, CNN, Nashville.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
