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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Says, Killing Of Alex Pretti A Very Unfortunate Incident; Gov. Josh Shapiro (D-PA) Says, Harris Team Asked If I Had Been An Israeli Agent; NTSB Reveals Findings On D.C. In-Flight Collision That Killed 67; Dems Fighting For Texas Senate Seat Square Off In First Debate; Minneapolis Businesses Struggle Amid ICE Raids. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired January 27, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, President Trump breaking from members of his own administration, saying that he does not think that V.A. ICU Nurse Alex Pretti was acting as a, quote, assassin in Minneapolis before border or ICE agents shot and killed him. The president also calling for a, quote, honest investigation into what exactly happened into that deadly shooting. What exactly does an honest investigation look like?

Plus, he's frequently brought up in any conversations about the 2028 election. Democratic Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro is here to talk about his plans if ICE starts operations in the commonwealth, why he ultimately pulled his name out of V.P. contention in 2024, and the alarming rise in anti-Semitism on not just the right but also the left.

Also, this week marks one year since 67 people were killed in that horrific collision between an American Airlines plane and an Army Black Hawk helicopter. What top safety officials said today as they met to discuss ways to prevent any similar tragedies from ever happening again.

The Lead tonight, President Trump is on the campaign trail trying to sell his economic policies and change the conversation away from the controversies and. Death toll in Minneapolis. Before his rally, the president called the shooting of Alex Pretti by Border Patrol agents a, quote, very unfortunate incident, but he also claimed that Pretti should not have been carrying a gun despite the fact that there is no law in Minnesota barring concealed weapons holders -- permit holders from attending protests.

CNN also has some new reporting tonight that two officers fired their guns in Saturday's deadly encounter, according to an initial report sent to Congress by DHS. The report does not say however whether bullets fired from both officers hit Alex Pretti.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins joins me now in studio. Kaitlan, does President Trump -- what's the degree to which President Trump understands how many Republicans are horrified, not just by what happened, but some of the rhetoric and lies and, frankly, anti-Second Amendment rhetoric we're hearing from his administration? KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, pretty much everything that came out of the White House for the first 48 hours after Alex Pretti was killed was comments and statements that left a lot of Republicans flabbergasted. I think it not just the fact that he was killed on Saturday, but the way that they handled it, and they believe that they made it worse.

And so the president is downplaying the staffing changes that are happening on the ground in Minnesota, the fact that Tom Homan is replacing Greg Bovino, but make no mistake, that would not be happening had the president not registered and understood the backlash that they were facing, even from people within their own party with how that they've handled this. And he said today that they're going to de-escalate a bit in Minnesota. I think it remains to be seen what exactly that looks like. Obviously, Tom Homan's actually meeting directly with Governor Walz and with Mayor Frey in hopes of bringing down the temperature on that front.

But I think, internally, you know, one thing that people have said is they're just shocked, I think, at how badly this has been handled. And the statements coming from Secretary Noem, obviously Stephen Miller, which was reposted by the vice president, and despite the president saying today he has confidence in Noem, I've heard from a lot of people internally who were very upset with how the Department of Homeland Security was handling this and how they were coming out. Because, yes, I mean, obviously Stephen Miller coordinates a lot of immigration policy from inside the West Wing, but she is a cabinet level official, she's a cabinet head who is out there speaking with the president about this. And so that's why they had that lengthy meeting at the White House last night with Secretary Noem and President Trump.

On the Second Amendment comment, so that is something the president himself has kind of doubled down on repeatedly. It's not something that he's changed his view on. He was posting the gun, remember, immediately on Saturday. And today when he got to Iowa, he was asked about if he would call Alex Pretti an assassin and a -- or a domestic terrorist as some of the people in his administration has. But this is what he said about him having that gun on him at the protest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I don't like that he had a gun. I don't like that he had two fully loaded magazines. That's a lot of bad stuff. And despite that, I say that's a very unfortunate (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: That obviously sounds a lot like what the FBI director, Kash Patel, said on Sunday that he kind had to walk back yesterday because that he had a permit, he was allowed to carry that weapon. It was perfectly legal for him to have it, according to the police chief there in Minneapolis.

And so hearing those comments, you've seen people like Thomas Massie coming out and criticize him, even Kyle Rittenhouse, someone the president has praised and congratulated when he was acquitted at his trial, was saying, basically speaking out against the administration in their views on the Second Amendment and what they've said about Pretti carrying that gun.

TAPPER: Do you think they have any idea how much it sounds as though they're saying that people who support the president have rights that that the rest of the American people don't?

[18:05:06]

Like --

COLLINS: Or that you can exercise one amendment, one right but not the other.

TAPPER: Yes. January 6th people can bring guns and anti-COVID shutdown people can bring guns to protest, but people who don't like ICE can't? Or you can assault police officers if you're with January 6th, but anyone else, like that's like a federal offense. I mean -- meaning like a capital offense, I meant. Like that's really, honestly, what the administration seems to be saying.

COLLINS: Well, and that's why you're seeing people who are, you know, dyed in the wool conservatives, believe in the Second Amendment, you know, that don't tread on me kind of people coming out and saying, okay, no, this is actually our entire argument, is that he can carry this gun even if you're at a protest. He's in a public place. He wasn't in a Capitol building bringing a gun, like obviously the January 6th protesters, some of them were. And so that has obviously been the entire argument here.

TAPPER: Yes. Some people who believe in gun rights and don't tread to me, some people have been saying that a lot of them have not.

Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. And, of course, do not miss Kaitlan on her show. It's called The Source with Kaitlan Collins. Her guest tonight includes Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, who's making a lot of news tonight. That's a good booking, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: He's calling on Secretary Noem to be fired obviously.

TAPPER: Yes, that's tonight at 9:00 Eastern.

COLLINS: Notable statement.

TAPPER: Only on CNN.

And here to discuss, the Democratic governor of the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro. His new book is out today, it's called, Where We Keep the Light Stories from a Life of Service. Governor, I'm going to talk about your book in a sec, but obviously a lot going on in the world. Let's start with Minnesota. You have said that Trump has to terminate the immigration operation there and fire DHS Secretary Kristi Noem. Today, Governor Walz's office said that Walls met with Trump Border Czar Tom Holman. The two agreed on the need for an ongoing dialogue. Do you think Homan taking the reins while customs and Border Patrol Commander Bovino is being shown the door, do you think that suggests things are going to improve, or do you think Bovino is just kind of the administration's fall guy here for what's been going on in the last few weeks there?

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): Look, Jake, until I hear that the mission has changed, I don't think it matters who's in charge of it. I'm glad they're communicating with Governor Walz. Don't get me wrong, but until I hear the president of the United States say, we're not going to target people just because they have an accent, we're not going to wreak havoc on a community, we're going to de-mask these federal officials so that there can be some trust in the community, that they really are there to remove real criminals from a community. Until I hear that the mission has changed, I don't really care who's in charge.

And, look, I hope the Congress of the United States exercises its authority this Friday when they have a vote on this. I'm encouraged to hear more and more Republicans speaking up. There should be easily the ability to put together a majority that stops funding this type of mission and put some guardrails on the Trump administration.

TAPPER: The White House and their supporters have accused the governor and Minneapolis Mayor Frey of making immigration enforcement operations harder than they need to be in terms of their actions and their rhetoric, encouraging protesters. Let's look at one comment that Governor Walz made that's under scrutiny right now. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN): We have got children in Minnesota hiding in their houses, afraid to go outside. Many of us grew up reading that story of Anne Frank. Somebody's going to write that children's story about Minnesota.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, the U.S. Holocaust museum wrote in response, quote, Anne Frank was targeted and murdered solely because she was Jewish. Leaders making false equivalencies to her experience for political purposes is never acceptable, unquote.

What's your take on what the governor said?

SHAPIRO: Look, here's what I know to be true in Minnesota, that federal officials have eviscerated the trust that should exist between law enforcement and the community by virtue of how they've gone about the operations. I'm the former chief law enforcement officer of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Jake. You know we've talked about these issues over the years. I think the most important tool that law enforcement needs when they go into a community to try and keep the peace or make people safe is to have trust with the community they are policing.

I think it is undeniable that people are scared, that people feel fearful. And it is undeniable that that trust that needs to exist between law enforcement and the public simply does not exist between these federal agents and the community that they are, in theory, to serve.

And so I think that the mission needs to be terminated. It needs to end. Fear is a real thing. But the reality is we need to end this mission and move forward.

TAPPER: Fear is a real thing, but do you have any issues with Governor Walz equating kids hiding in their attics in Minnesota with Anne Frank?

[18:10:01]

SHAPIRO: Yes. Look, I get the point that the governor was trying to make. I'm not sure that I would articulate it that way. But I think the underlying point that he's trying to make is a real one, that people are fearful and that trust that should exist between a community and the people that are there, in theory, to protect and serve them, that has been eviscerated. It needs to be returned. And the best way to return that is to get these federal officials out of Minneapolis and allow the Minneapolis Police to continue to do the important work they do to keep people safe.

TAPPER: Get those officials out of Minneapolis. They might be coming to Pennsylvania cities. You've said if Pittsburgh or Philly or any other city in Pennsylvania is the next spot for the ICE raids, you've been planning for it, you say, and the courts and communities have started preparing. What exactly does that look like? You write in your book about having a track record of working across party lines. Will you work with the Trump administration or what is the plan?

SHAPIRO: I'll work with anyone to keep the people of Pennsylvania safe. And I'll also stand up to anyone that tries to undermine the safety and security of a community. We work with our law enforcement partners at the federal, obviously state and local level to keep people safe. And as a result of that work, violent crime is down 12 percent in Pennsylvania. Fatal gun violence is down about 43 percent in our commonwealth. We've invested in hiring 2,000 more police officers and we've invested hundreds of millions of dollars in violence prevention initiatives at the local level.

What we are doing is working. What we don't want are outside forces coming in and eroding that trust and creating chaos. You know, Donald Trump and his administration love to put themselves out there as the party of law and order. What we see from them is not law and order, but chaos and division. And I would argue that I believe they are acting outside the bounds of the law in Minneapolis, and not just the two incidents that resulted in the death of Mr. Pretti and Ms. Good, but just the very premise of their mission being there, I think that's outside the law and the bounds of the Tenth Amendments -- Tenth Amendment, pardon me.

And so it is something we are prepared for and I will work with anyone to keep people safe, but I'll stand up to anyone that undermines that safety.

TAPPER: Governor Shapiro, stick around. We have much more to discuss about your book, about your future in politics. We're going to squeeze in a quick break. We'll be right back.

SHAPIRO: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

And we're back with our Politics Lead. Pennsylvania's Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro and former Vice President Kamala Harris, they're likely not exchanging friendship bracelets these days, despite the fact that Shapiro was on Harris' V.P. shortlist when she ran for president in 2024.

In Shapiro's new book, Where We Keep the Light, he says, the V.P. vetting process featured unnecessarily contentious questions, including, quote, have you ever been an agent of the Israeli government? He writes in the book, quote, had I been a double agent for Israel? Was she kidding? I told her how offensive the question was.

And we're back with Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro. So, Governor, let's talk about your book. You say you ultimately decided to take your name out of the vice presidential running with candidate Kamala Harris, then the vice president, after a one-on-one meeting with her that featured some clashes including about Israel, the one like I just talked about you say it was offensive and that the Harris-Shapiro pairing was not a great fit. Did you also have deeper concerns about maybe hitching your wagon to a losing campaign?

SHAPIRO: No. And, look, I did everything in my power to try and help the vice president win. And I wish she would have. The country would have been in a far better place than it is right now.

I would just, you know, respectfully push back on your word, clashes. I actually appreciate to this day the fact that the vice president was direct with me and honest with me, and I hope she appreciates that I was direct and honest back with her. I thought that we had a really constructive conversation.

And after that conversation and reflection and conversation with my wife and our kids, I think we just determined that this was not the best way for me to serve. This was not the best way for me to have an impact on making people's lives better. And that's why I picked up the phone and called, I guess, roughly 48 hours before she made her announcement the Governor Walz would be her running mate, that I did not want to be included in those deliberations.

I went after that and did everything in my power to support Governor Walz and Vice President Harris, both in Pennsylvania and across the country, traveling for them, filming an ad for them, doing everything I could. I wish she would have won.

And so, to the heart of your question, this was not a political calculus about her winning or losing. This was about the best way I could possibly serve. TAPPER: It was also a period where you were being criticized more than other Democrats for your position on Israel and the war in Gaza from Israel, even though you were more critical of Benjamin Netanyahu than at the time Vice President Harris or Tim Walz, or Andy Beshear, or any of the other possible candidates for V.P. And, you know, activists were calling you Genocide Josh. There was a really ugly explosion of anti-Semitism.

You write about anti-Semitism at the start of your book because of that horrific attack on the governor's mansion during Passover. And you write in your book, quote, of course, anti-Semitism has gotten impossible to ignore over the last few years, much scarier, much more real, both in the number of incidents and how present it feels around us. I often have people come tell me they were comforted by the fact that I was willing to live my life openly and proudly as a Jew, that it gave them confidence to do the same.

And I wonder if -- I mean, there has been this explosion of anti- Semitism on the right that we've seen conservatives grappling with and refusing to grapple with in some cases.

SHAPIRO: Yes.

TAPPER: You know, it's split -- it's really ripped apart the Conservative Heritage Foundation and other places.

[18:20:00]

Do you think your party, the Democratic Party, has had the reckoning on anti-Semitism that it needs to?

SHAPIRO: Look, I think it is clear and an undeniable truth that anti- Semitism is a problem on the political left and on the political right, and it shouldn't be hard for anyone to acknowledge that. I think it is important to separate out the two different conversations need to be had and both were kind of lumped in to your question. I mean, that respectfully, Jake, one is about the policy in the Middle East and Israeli policy. And as you correctly noted I have over many years been critical, very critical of the Netanyahu administration and what they've done both in Israel and in Gaza.

And at the same time, while there's nuance around that, we need to have the ability to have that foreign policy conversation that is critical of Israel along with other countries and certainly of Hamas, a terrorist group.

TAPPER: There have been --

SHAPIRO: On the flipside -- on the flipside -- if I may just finish the thought, on the flipside, there is no nuance when it comes to anti-Semitism or hatred or bigotry in any form. It should not be hard for the right or the left to stand up and condemn it. And I think it is critically important that voices come together from the Democratic Party, Republican Party to stand in unity against anti-Semitism. We should -- that is a black and white issue while the other issues are much more nuanced. TAPPER: So, last question before you go, sir, and I know you have a big calendar ahead with this book, but you have won every election you've ever run for, with the exception of one, when you ran for student body president at the same high school that you -- I went to, I'm four years older than you.

SHAPIRO: Yes.

TAPPER: So, we didn't really overlap in terms of like our social circles or --

SHAPIRO: Did you vote in that election? I guess you wouldn't have voted in that.

TAPPER: I didn't. I wouldn't have voted. I was the outgoing. I was gone. I was gone. By the time you ran for president? I was in college. I had other things on my mind. But I was the student body president when I was there. And I'm wondering, what do you think it is about me that I was able to win that election, the one election in your entire life that you were not able to win?

SHAPIRO: So, you're 1-0, and as I write in the book, I'm 12-1. I think I would take my record over the years.

Look, Jake, I think I ran for student council president in the high school to impress a girl who ultimately was not particularly impressed by that. But I did get to marry her a few years later and we've been married 28 years. And I think if you would have asked her at that moment, in that election where I was embarrassing myself, if I'd be the one guy in class to end up as governor of Pennsylvania, I think she'd probably pick everybody else in our class over me.

TAPPER: So, I'll just say this, thank you for acknowledging that my record is a thousand and, second of all, I definitely didn't impress any girls by winning student body president. Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, thanks so much.

SHAPIRO: Good to be with you.

TAPPER: Nearly one year after the tragic crash here at D.C.'s Reagan National Airport officials are meeting today to discuss ways to make sure something like this never, ever happens again, their findings are next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

TAPPER: In our National Lead, two days shy of the one-year anniversary of the deadliest U.S. commercial aviation accident in 16 years. The National Transportation Safety Board, or NTSB, is meeting to determine the probable cause of that tragic in-flight collision between an Army Black Hawk helicopter and an American Airlines jet, which took the lives of 67 people just outside Reagan National Airport.

CNN's Aviation correspondent Pete Muntean is at NTSB headquarters. And, Pete, there's new animations reconstructing the final minutes before the collision. What stood out to you from today's hearing?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, the NTSB just officially adopted the final probable cause of this tragic and avoidable crash. This has been a difficult and dense day with so many family members in the NTSB boardroom, also in an overflow room here. The probable cause essentially laid out a chain of errors dating back years, going back to the initial design of the airspace around Reagan National Airport and the placement of that helicopter route near the approach path for planes going into DCA's Runway 33. They also called out the overreliance of air traffic controllers on airplanes and pilots visually avoiding collisions, something called visual separation.

And then there was the big finding here that the Army Black Hawk helicopters were likely looking at the wrong aircraft when they said that they had American Eagle Flight 5342 in sight. Perhaps the most emotional evidence we saw here today were the visual recreations made by NTSB investigators from the viewpoint of the pilots of each aircraft. There was one for the helicopter, also one for the airplane, the commercial jet in question here, from the right seat, that is the seat where First Officer Sam Lily was sitting. And in it, you can barely perceive the location of the helicopter coming from the right side. It's impossible to perceive it because it blends in with the bright city lighting.

The other big thing here, and this was a huge point by NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy, she really hammered the Federal Aviation Administration for not looking at its own data, close calls averaging 18 times a year between airplanes and helicopters near DCA, and she said the FAA had systemic failures and did not pay attention to their own data. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER HOMENDY, CHAIRWOMAN, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: We couldn't find any evidence of annual reviews, nor could FAA tell us who did them.

[18:30:03]

We should be angry, because for years no one listened. This was preventable. This was 100 percent preventable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: The NTSB right now is laying out dozens, we're talking 40 or more safety recommendations here to the Federal Aviation Administration, the Department of War, the Department of Transportation, and beyond, to make significant changes here.

The other most sobering image we saw today was a piece of the tail rotor of the 60 Black Hawk lodged in the side of American Eagle Flight 5342. The other huge finding today is that as that airplane was in a left bank to line up with Runway 33, the helicopter's main rotor hit the left wing, meaning it was so, so close. We're talking only a few feet of difference and potentially everybody here could have survived. TAPPER: All right. Pete Muntean, thank you so much.

Coming up, we're marking another tragic chapter in history, a film on this Holocaust Remembrance Day documents what Jews went through in one small Polish town, and the creator of that film will be here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

TAPPER: In our World Lead, 81 years ago today, Soviet troops liberated Auschwitz Birkenau, the largest of the Nazi extermination camps. And that is why January 27th today is International Holocaust Remembrance Day, so the world never forgets the 6 million Jewish men, women, and children, one third of the Jewish people, along with countless members of other minorities, according to the U.N., killed by Nazi Germany and its allies.

The new film, Among Neighbors, carries on this mission uncovering the dark history in a small Polish town where Jews were murdered, not by Nazis, but by their own Polish neighbors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could not imagine what the Polish people did to me, that came for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And Yoav Potash, the director of the film joins us now. Yoav, tell us more about your documentary and how it's -- how you would distinguish it from other Holocaust documentaries, not that they're not important, but there have been a lot of them?

YOAV POTASH, DIRECTOR, AMONG NEIGHBORS: Absolutely, and I recognize that, and there's really a couple of significant ways. First is that this film is not about what the Germans did to the Jews. It's about the relationship between Polish Jews and the rest of Polish society. And what happened as the Holocaust really tested those relationships. Did the Polish neighbors of the Jews choose to help them or harm them? And, of course, the truth is they did both.

And this film does reveal that even after the Holocaust was over, that Jews were still being killed by their Polish neighbors. And then the other key way that you see that it's different even in the clips you're showing, is that we use animation to bring the past to life, to really bring history life -- history to life as you've never seen it before.

TAPPER: You interviewed many people who witnessed the tragedy firsthand. What was the most surprising thing you've learned?

POTASH: Well, I was shocked to learn that Holocaust survivors were killed as late as a year after the Holocaust was over, and it was supposedly peace time. That really shook me, especially when I heard it from a Polish person who was alive at the time. And that just really struck me as a unique window into this period of time, a type of story I hadn't heard before, and a last chance to get it directly from the people who were either the eyewitnesses or the survivors.

And so that was really how this story began. And the two individuals at the heart of the film are a Holocaust survivor and a Polish eyewitness to the murder of Jews, both from the same small town.

TAPPER: People might be surprised to hear this, but accusing Poland of being complicit in the Holocaust remains a crime in Poland. But I wonder now that this film is out, have things changed at all just in the small town that's the focus of your documentary? Are they finally acknowledging the reality of Polish complicity?

POTASH: I think in the town itself, it's out and it's known, and I'm sure much like in the rest of Poland, it's debated. It's a very divided country. I think we can relate to that here in the United States. And there's roughly half of the country that is willing to reckon with the darkest parts of their history, including the fact that Polish people did in fact murder their Jewish neighbors even after the war, and yet there's another half of the country that wants to kind of live in a historical fantasy and just only tell the stories in which they themselves can feel good about their country, their history, their society.

And so it's still hotly debated. And, in fact, after this film had a national public broadcast on Polish television, the extremist faction of the Polish government, which includes the president's office, moved to silence and ban this film. And they initiated proceedings essentially from the Polish equivalent of the FCC. So, this film is actually under investigation currently in Poland, but I look at it as a situation where they protest too much and that kind of attempt to silence the film will only bring more attention to it.

[18:40:13]

TAPPER: Yes. It's relevant to the efforts by some in this country to pretend that slavery didn't happen in the United States. It's a weak country that cannot acknowledge its shameful chapters.

The film is Among Neighbors. Yoav Potash, congratulations and thank you so much for being here.

POTASH: Thank you, Jake. I appreciate it.

TAPPER: Two high-profile Democrats facing off in a closely watched Texas race. Who are Democratic voters going to choose? Our political panel ways in, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Our Politics Lead now, President Trump traveled to Iowa today to rally Republican supporters to tout his economic winds and to try his best to redirect the nation's attention away from the streets of Minneapolis. This marked his first speech since the killing of Alex Pretti.

Before the speech, he did an interview with, guess, guess, Fox.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We have Tom Homan there now. We put him in there. He's great. And they met with the governor, the mayor, everybody else, and we're going to de-escalate a little bit.

[18:45:02]

But I will tell you, you look at the numbers, they're doing better than they've done in many years because we took thousands of criminals out of Minnesota.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, my panel joins me now.

Bryan Lanza, what do you make of the tone the president struck today regarding the situation in Minnesota and his -- he said, we're going to deescalate a little bit or something like that, his basic approach to this in the last 24 hours?

BRYAN LANZA, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP 2024 CAMPAIGN: Listen, I'm happy with it. I mean, at the end of the day, we had a U.S. citizen who was killed. We had we were told one story, and then the overwhelming evidence says something completely different. That was a tremendous hit on the president's credibility and his administration.

So, to see that they had -- they're turning it around looking to de- escalate issues, bringing in a leadership change in Minnesota. It sets the right tone. The policy is not going to change. I mean, we still in this administration, these people feel that mass deportation needs to take place. It just doesn't need to be in this type of disruptive way where you're having 3,000, you know, ICE officers, you know, coming into a small city, it just -- it's overkill at this.

TAPPER: Two Republican senators now, Republican, Tillis of North Carolina and Murkowski of Alaska have now said that the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem should go.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.

TAPPER: That's only two.

CARDONA: Right.

TAPPER: Is this the sign of something more, do you think, or what?

CARDONA: I do think it's a sign of something more. I think it's a sign that Republicans are very concerned about the images that they have seen on their television screens about the polls that they are seeing in terms of these kinds of draconian, cruel immigration tactics. And it's not just an issue of the president sort of acknowledging that this is a problem by saying that he's got to deescalate the policy is the problem, because what you have is these ICE agents who clearly have gone rogue. And that's why you're also seeing many people calling for ICE to be

repealed, replaced, retrained defunded. But there has to be some kind of immigration enforcement. But this cadre of ICE agents is what -- is the problem. They have not been trained well. And regardless of what the president says in terms of deescalation, they are going to be all over the country doing exactly what they're doing in Minneapolis. Unless you change the way that they're supposed to be doing what they're doing.

So maybe Tom Homan understands that. Maybe he's going to sit them down and say, we cannot do this anymore. You can't go in there with masks. You can't go in there without warrants. You can't go in there and grab people from their houses or from their cars. You can't detain and deport American citizens.

But that's a big ask because that will be a change in policy. That's where I think the administration has a problem.

TAPPER: There is definitely -- well, first of all, I should say, I know we all use the term ICE as kind of like a shorthand for any of these immigration enforcement individuals. I mean, some of the people there, I mean, Greg Bovino is with Border Patrol. He's not with ICE. And my understanding is a lot of the guys involved in what happened to Alex Pretti were Border Patrol agents.

But there are a lot of -- I mean, I don't want to get into too much in the weeds on this, but none of these folks are really schooled in crowd control or things like that. And that's one of the issues here.

LANZA: Well, that's -- that's the bigger issue, Jake, because normally when you have in red cities, in red states, you have local law enforcement that are assisting in crowd control. So, you have ICE or border and customs come in. Youve got local law enforcement assisting with crowd control. You avoid these situations.

The problem when you go into a blue city and in a blue state is you don't have the same cooperation, because sanctuary cities, so you don't have the same cooperation. So now you have to stretch the resources of ICE and border patrol who don't have that experience, who the locals are supposed to have it, and now they're supposed to do it and learn at the last minute.

They're learning this process. And this is because you don't have cooperation from locals. And that's a problem.

TAPPER: Maria, I want to get your take on. We saw two Democrats in the closely watched Texas Senate primary for Democrats face off for the very first time this weekend, Jasmine Crockett and James Talarico.

Let's take a little snippet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): James and I served in the state house together. He's actually been elected longer than I have been elected. Yet he's not as known right now because I have engaged in these fights, and they have been right there on the front lines where people could see me out front.

STATE REP. JAMES TALARICO (D-TX): The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. And the people in this room know that I have fought tooth and nail for our values in the Texas House of Representatives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Maria, what do you think?

CARDONA: I think it was a draw. For most of the clips that I saw and what I have read, I think it was a draw because there wasn't a whole lot of difference in policy. There was a lot of difference in the way that they presented themselves. Right? And style. And I think that's going to be the fundamental difference between how they run their campaigns.

Jasmine Crockett, huge firebrand. She ran on that. Her -- her opening announcement was Trump attacking her. That's going to be what she is going to be selling Texans saying this is a moment in time where we need fighters.

Talarico is a little bit more moderate. A lot of folks think that he might be the one that is electable in Texas, but we're in a different moment in time in politics.

[18:50:00]

And so, we'll see. I think it's going to be a very much of a fight between what kind of style Texas residents, voters want.

TAPPER: Republican Senator John Cornyn says that he's most worried about Talarico because this -- this race could -- I mean, if Cornyn loses the primary to the very controversial attorney general, yeah, that Talarico might be able to grab that that middle, that middle group.

Do you agree with Cornyn's concerns?

LANZA: Yeah. I mean, listen, I know Ken Paxton. I dealt with Ken Paxton in 2016. He's just too hot at this particular moment for --

TAPPER: Even for Texas?

LANZA: I agree, even for Texas. And the Senate's too important. I mean, what we've seen -- and what we've -- what I've heard from people is that Texas itself is going to be a half a billion-dollar race on the Republican side. I suspect it's a half billion on the Dem. Then you go to Ohio, another half billion.

These small states are spending a tremendous amount of money because we know that's where the race -- that's where control of the U.S. Senate lies.

TAPPER: I think it -- was it Everett Dirksen? Some somebody famous said, you have a half billion here and you have a half billion there. Pretty soon you're talking about a lot of money.

CARDONA: A lot of money.

TAPPER: Something like that. I'm paraphrasing.

Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

Small businesses in Minnesota say they're feeling the impact of the Trump administration's immigration crackdown in their cities. That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:25]

TAPPER: In our national lead, as President Trump's immigration crackdown across Minneapolis continues, businesses in every corner of the city are feeling the squeeze.

CNN's Sara Sidner spoke with several local business owners about how they're fighting to keep their businesses alive.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN MARSHALL, OWNER, MISCHIEF TOYS: ICE should be abolished.

TRACY WONG, MY HUONG KITCHEN: I got nervous and I got scared, and I don't know what to do.

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Those are the voices of twin city business owners trying to navigate the chaos of President Trump's immigration crackdown here.

Tracy Wong owns My Huong Kitchen. She was here when tensions exploded right outside her window. I met her with a face full of tear gas, unable to breathe.

T. WONG: I think get ready to open up my store. And somehow that I see outside kind of like boom, boom, boom.

SIDNER (voice-over): She quickly closed down, but seeing the desperation of strangers, she opened her doors, offering free snacks, warmth and shelter.

T. WONG: People were crying. People were throwing up, throwing up. How can I not open up the door to that people that come in that I can help?

SIDNER (voice-over): Her younger brother Alex broke down in tears down in tears at the sight of his sister's kindness.

T. WONG: I love America.

SIDNER (voice-over): Their parents fled the Vietnam War only to find warlike conditions on their doorstep in America decades later. ALEX WONG, TRACY WONG'S BROTHER: Our story starts with us. Why we're

here. We're immigrants. And our parents -- they're older now, and they left this behind. It's at our front door now.

SIDNER (voice-over): On the same street, a couple blocks away. The award winning Greek restaurant Christos saw all hell breaks loose.

GUS PARPAS, OWNER, CHRISTOS: It's very unfortunate that they would have to tear-gas people and pepper-spray them. They're not violent people.

SIDNER (voice-over): Gus Parpas started his family-run restaurant 38 years ago. He says his own staff member legally allowed to be in the country, was snatched up by ICE agents at a random checkpoint and held for days.

SIDNER: Someone from your own restaurant?

PARPAS: Yes. Yeah. They grabbed him, yanked him out of the car and handcuffed him and took him away despite his protestations that, hey, I'm legal.

SIDNER (voice-over): We reached out to DHS for comment. So far have heard nothing.

Standing in front of a street art sign that he used to board up his business in 2020 during the George Floyd protests, Parpas says he cannot believe what he's seeing. The strong-arm tactics being used by federal agents here.

Do you want ICE to leave the community?

PARPAS: I think everyone in the Twin Cities wants him to leave. You've seen what they do.

SIDNER (voice-over): They feel it's unsustainable.

Across the river in Saint Paul, a family-run toy store is in ICE's crosshairs now.

Owner Dan Marshall says hours after the family went on national television criticizing ICE. Federal agents knocked on their doors.

MARSHALL: Three hours later, we were served with an audit from two ICE agents that came into the store.

SIDNER: So, after you publicly spoke out against ICE, you suddenly got two agents at your door?

MARSHALL: Yep, exactly.

SIDNER: Demanding what?

MARSHALL: They're demanding our I-9 records for our five part time employees, none of whom are immigrants. They're all born in the U.S.

SIDNER (voice-over): Marshall says agents told them not to talk about the audit.

SIDNER: Are you afraid?

MARSHALL: Yeah, we're deeply afraid. I think every Minnesotan right now is afraid and traumatized. And we just want this to end.

SIDNER (voice-over): The response from the community enormous. Now, on top of toys, they sell hundreds of anti-ICE signs every day.

MARSHALL: There you go.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: We watched person after person from the neighborhood. They have people coming from outside of the state who have been trying to order online, crashing their website because they're trying to help their business after what they went through. And were seeing that happen for many businesses, especially those on East Street, that had to close during all this.

Jake, there is a lot of worry, but there's also a lot of love that we're seeing from the business owners and for the business owners -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Sara Sidner in the streets of Minneapolis, thanks so much.

And don't miss a special CNN town hall tomorrow night. It's called "STATE OF EMERGENCY: CONFRONTING THE CRISIS IN MINNESOTA". Sara and Anderson Cooper will moderate the discussion with residents in Minneapolis and community leaders. That's tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. eastern here on CNN and on the CNN app.

Until tomorrow, you can follow the show on X, Instagram, @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

Our good friend Erin Burnett and her show "OUTFRONT" starts now.

See you tomorrow.