Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Border Czar: ICE And CBP Working On Minneapolis "Drawdown Plan"; Trump Avoids Mention Of Minnesota In Lengthy Cabinet Meeting; Sen. Schumer Funding Deal Reached To Avert Shutdown; Jamaican Restaurant Offers Refuge To Protesters In Minneapolis; New Technology Can Warn Pilots Of Nearby Aircraft; Soon: "Melania" Premiere At The Kennedy Center; Aired 6-7p ET

Aired January 29, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't be a stranger. Come back soon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. We're glad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks a lot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're glad you're sharing us. Thanks. OK.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to "The Lead." I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper.

This hour, the White House border czar says plans are in the works for an eventual drawdown of immigration agents in Minneapolis. But Tom Homan also pledges, he's staying in the state until, quote, the problem is gone.

So, what exactly is the plan? And how soon could we see it?

Plus, his name comes up quite a bit when you talk to Democrats about 2028. Former transportation secretary Pete Buttigieg is here. He'll discuss his criticism of Kristi Noem, his message for Democrats heading into the midterms and his own political future.

Also, tens of millions of Americans are already under winter storm watches as a bomb cyclone is expected to develop over the next few days. The storm's track is still uncertain. We're going to get an update from the CNN Weather Center.

And the Kennedy Center is rolling out the red carpet tonight for the premiere of "Melania," a documentary about the First Lady's return to the White House.

But after paying Mrs. Trump an unprecedented $40 million for the film, is Amazon can actually make any profit off this project?

"The Lead" tonight, border czar Tom Homan says he's planning for a, quote, drawdown of what so far has been a drastic law enforcement present -- presence in Minnesota, but there is no timeline just yet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: I'm staying until the problem is gone. But we've made a lot of progress, a lot of progress in the last three days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And a long time immigration official is now tasked with mopping up the mess left behind in Minneapolis from President Trump's aggressive deportation agenda, a piece of his four-year plan that usually takes -- that he usually takes any opportunity to talk about.

But not today at his cabinet meeting where the president spoke for more than an hour. And that's where we start over at the White House where we find CNN's Kaitlan Collins who just left the Oval Office where the president held a signing event this afternoon.

Kaitlan, I got to be honest, knowing you were in the pool today, which meant you were going to be in the room with the president at any of his appearances, knowing there was a cabinet meeting and also an Oval Office event, I assumed you were going to get lots of questions to the president and a lot of answers. You didn't. Why not?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, Phil, it's rare for the president not to take questions when reporters come into the Oval Office. It's practically unheard of for him not to do so after a cabinet meeting.

Typically, he goes around the room, has cabinet officials speak and he declined to take any questions from reporters earlier. Wasn't even really kind of a question as we were ushered out of the room pretty abruptly from him after he ended about an hour and a half after speaking in the room with no questions.

And then just now, we were in the Oval Office again as he was having his cabinet secretaries -- Interior Secretary Doug Burgum and his wife talk about addiction. He had people go around the room and then typically he stops, looks at the press and takes questions.

He did not do so there just now in the Oval Office, Phil, which you know is incredibly rare, especially for this president who earlier was just talking about how transparent his administration is.

And obviously, it raises a lot of questions because I've covered Trump for a long time. I've covered this presidency, the previous term. This is pretty rare for him not to take questions from reporters.

And it comes as there are real questions facing the administration over what has happened in Minneapolis and whether or not they are trying to make real changes and scale back to what's actually happening on the ground by sending in the border czar, Tom Homan, as he spoke with reporters this morning about what he believes needs to change and what needs to happen on the ground going forward.

And also, as there's been a lot of outcry here in Washington from a group that, you know, Phil doesn't often criticize the president and that's Republican lawmakers. But despite that, Republican lawmakers, this week, have not only called on the president to get rid of his Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, they've also said there needs to be a thorough and fair investigation into the shooting and killing of Alex Pretti by federal agents on Saturday.

Now, the president is not talking to us in public, Phil, but I will tell you, he's been posting up a storm on Truth Social. He was doing overnight. He was doing so this morning, including posting that new video of Alex Pretti that resurfaced. It's video taken about 11 days before he was ultimately killed during that fatal encounter with those immigration officials on the ground on Saturday.

The president was reposting it multiple times, including with a meme of Elizabeth Warren, reading something over it. He was posting conspiracy theories about the election, claiming that the 2020 election was hacked by the Italians, by spy satellites, by China, by Obama. All of those topics that he's been posting online but did not clearly want to take questions about, Phil.

And also, I should note it comes as the president's immigration tactics. You're seeing a new Fox News poll that doesn't have favorable numbers for the president. When it comes to ICE, people believe that the ICE tactics that have been used are too aggressive, according to well over a majority of Americans.

MATTINGLY: Yes. And just to be clear for folks, we're not doing inside baseball stuff. Me and Kaitlan about who gets questions and doesn't. The president takes more questions than any president I've certainly been in this profession.

[18:05:07]

And he takes questions from Kaitlan. The toughest questions from Kaitlan and gives answers to them in these types of moments. That's why it's notable, especially given what's going on.

Kaitlan Collins, appreciate you as always, my friend. Thanks so much.

And don't miss Kaitlan on her show, "The Source," with Kaitlan Collins. Her guests tonight include Democratic Senator Andy Kim. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern on CNN.

I want to turn out to some breaking news in our politics lead. Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer says a bipartisan funding deal has been reached to avoid a government shutdown.

I want to get straight to CNN's Manu Raju on Capitol Hill.

Manu, we started this week saying no chance. There's a deal. What's happening here?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's a deal and -- and as a result of a shift by the White House moving much closer to the Democratic position in large part because they are responding to the public outcry over what has happened in Minneapolis and the two deadly shootings involving ICE agents and U.S. citizens and forcing Republicans and the White House to reckon with that reality and reckon with the fact that they simply would not have the votes to fund most of the federal government by the deadline, which is what 11:59 P.M. Friday night.

Because in the 53-47 Senate, you need seven democratic votes, at least, to break a filibuster. Democratic leader Chuck Schumer said that would not happen unless ICE was dealt with in this package.

Now, this deal that has been struck between Chuck Schumer and the White House would move funding for the rest of the federal government, the Defense Department, State Department, Labor Department, other major federal agencies. They would be funded to the end of September.

But Homeland Security Department funding, that's different. That includes money for ICE. That would only be extended for two weeks. And under this proposal, that would give them that amount of time, just two weeks to find a deal to deal with ICE.

And Democrats have been demanding significant changes to restrain ICE as part of that plan. So once -- when and if this becomes law, Phil, then the next much harder negotiation about how to deal with ICE, will actually take effect.

And the key thing to watch to what, Phil, tonight, there could be a vote in the Senate to move ahead to avoid a government shutdown. The House still has to come back into session. They've been out all week. Will they do that before Friday night? That seems unlikely.

So there could be a very short shutdown, but probably one that would last until Monday at the latest. Phil.

MATTINGLY: Yes. It's amazing week on the Hill. But also it's setting up a really, really high stakes debate on some really critical issues of the weeks ahead.

Manu Raju with the latest, as always, for us on Capitol Hill. Thanks so much.

I want to bring in two former officials with experience in this field. Ken Cuccinelli, former acting deputy secretary of the Department of Homeland Security during President Trump's first term. And John Sandweg, the former acting director of ICE under President Obama. Guys, really appreciate your time.

John, just to start with, the -- the tonal shift that we've seen over the last couple of days, in particular this morning from border czar Tom Homan who also worked at ICE during the Obama administration

Based on what you heard, do you think he's the right man for leading a de-escalation in this situation?

JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR OF ICE UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA: Yes, Phil. I had an opportunity to work with Tom. I spent four -- four and a half years working closely with Tom. Tom is a professional. Tom understands that you can do immigration enforcement without the chaos we were seeing in Minneapolis. So, what I heard today really was a repudiation of the tactics that we've been seeing. And, you know, this idea that we bring up border patrol agents in mass, we put them under the command. All -- all ICE operations are the command of the border patrol.

I think what you heard today is Tom saying that, you know, candidly, I think you heard him saying that was a mistake, that we need to go back to what ISIS historically done, which are more targeted operations.

And as Tom repeatedly pointed out, those targeted operations keep the agents safer. They keep the public safer. They minimize some of these interactions.

So I -- look, I have a lot of confidence in Tom. But, of course, we'll see in the next few days how things change there, right? Are we pulling those Border Patrol agents out? And does ICE revert back to those more traditional tactics? Or do we see a continuation of what we saw over the last three weeks?

MATTINGLY: Ken, I wanted to ask you about one of the specific request Homeland is making. For the state to provide more access to the jails, which --

KEN CUCCINELLI, FORMER ACTING DEPUTY SECRETARY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Right.

MATTINGLY: -- also comes in contrast with something that Mayor Jacob Frey said last night at our CNN Town Hall about Minneapolis being a sanctuary city. Just take a listen to the two comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOMAN: When you have these agreements, it takes less law enforcement agents to do the job. One agent can arrest one bad guy in the safety and security of a jail where he's behind the wire (ph). We know we don't have weapons.

JACOB FREY, MAYOR OF MINNEAPOLIS: When you're trying to catch a murderer or a rapist, the first question that you ask is not, where are you from?

The question that's important is, did they rape somebody? Did they murder somebody? And if they did, we investigate and we partner to do so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Ken, how do local officials and federal officials begin to try and get those two ideas working in tandem here?

CUCCINELLI: Well, I think I heard the mayor dodging. I agree with -- with John that Tom Homan is the right person for this de-escalation effort.

[18:10:04] But the two comments don't -- don't match up. Tom Homan has made a general comment about cooperation of handing over criminals who are in local or state jails or prisons.

And the mayor zeroed in and focused on what certainly was an agreeable statement. We all want to prosecute rapists and murderers, but he dodged the question of then handing over those of them that are here illegally to ICE. And that's the rub.

And Tom Homan's point that it takes far less ICE agents. You want less ICE agents in Minnesota? There is a way we can all make that happen. And -- and he laid it out in the press conference this morning, which was part, I think, of the de-escalatory effort, which I commend.

And -- and we'll make ICE more efficient at achieving its mission. It has a mission established by Congress, voted for by Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, that it's had for decades. As John knows, he led that effort. And I was honored to work with -- with ICE when I was a deputy secretary.

So, I think these goals can be achieved. I think you can see a reduction in the level of potential for violence in Minnesota by that cooperation. It'll keep agents safer. And it will reduce the presence of ICE in Minnesota, which theoretically should accomplish goals that people on all sides of this are seeking to accomplish.

MATTINGLY: John, we just heard from Manu Raju on the Hill about this deal that has been reached to avoid a government shutdown, which will also trigger a really intense debate over the course of the next two weeks about what Democrats have been asking for, change-wise policy writers to the funding bill for DHS.

You've been in this space. There's not a lot of political comedy (ph) or pragmatism that ends up in these types of fights. Do you think there's going to be an outcome here?

SANDWEG: You know, Phil, look, ideally when you're a law enforcement agency, and Ken knows this, right? You don't want Congress dictating how you do the job, right? There are certain things that they can dictate, the goals, what you've fond.

But in terms of these specific writers, I think they're talking about, ideally, you don't have those, right? But, of course, with everything that's happened over the last couple of weeks, it's just inevitable that this was going to happen.

So I think the devil will be in the details. I do think there's some things Congress can demand that the agency can work with. It won't impede their ability to do their job and it will address a lot of the concerns.

I mean, one thing I'd like to see is greater transparency about who is arrested, just so the public can understand, right, who's been -- who's been targeted, what their criminal history is.

But, you know, again, although not ideal, this is a natural outcome of when you had the chaos you've seen on the streets.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Ken Cuccinelli, John Sandweg, really appreciate you guys' time and perspective. Thanks so much.

CUCCINELLI: Good to be with you.

SANDWEG: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Well, our "Business Leaders" series is back with a look at how immigration operations are impacting small businesses in Minneapolis. The owner of a restaurant that is getting back to the community will join me live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:59]

MATTINGLY: Time now for our "Business Leaders" series on "The Lead."

And usually, we're talking with small business owner about the impacts of President Trump's tariffs.

Today, we're heading to Minneapolis to Pimento Jamaican Kitchen, a restaurant located just 500 feet from where Alex Pretti was shot less than a week ago.

It's one of many businesses being pushed to the brink by the aggressive immigration enforcement in the city. The chef and owner, Tomme Beevas, joins me now.

Tomme, really appreciate your time. I know it's a very tough time in the community.

Just to start with, what did you see and experience on Saturday as a member of the community?

TOMME BEEVAS, CHEF AND OWNER, PIMENTO JAMAICAN KITCHEN: As a member of the community, walking out onto each street, the most diverse street in Minneapolis, think of Flatbush Avenue in New York, or Georgia Avenue in D.C., or Calle Ocho in Miami, and seeing it under siege and tear gas everywhere.

It was heartbreaking because this is a space where people come with families, kids are here. My kids walk to school right up the street. And for us to have seen each street turned into something like that was very heartbreaking.

MATTINGLY: What changes have you had to make, have other business owners on that street had to make just to keep the business open operational during this time of turmoil?

BEEVAS: So during the start, what we've done is we've actually stepped up. So all of the other neighbors, they've stepped up and made -- that their spaces are heating spaces, warm spaces, because, of course, Minneapolis is cold. We've also ensured that people are fed and hydrated as they're coming out to pay their respects. Naturally, throughout this time, it's been quite difficult because, of course, employees. Native American employees are scared to be out in the streets of Minneapolis. Employees born in New York City are scared to be out in the streets of Minneapolis.

And so we've had to figure out how to adjust and adapt to where I'm in the kitchen on the regular doing dishes, like everybody else, because we have to be agile and pivot as needed right now under these circumstances.

MATTINGLY: You know, the point you make, you're an immigrant, you're a business owner, you're in the community. So much of your restaurant as you started -- you have a remarkable story, but the -- the restaurant was started as a -- as really kind of a -- the community being a critical piece of how you wanted your business to be run.

Do you fear at all for safety and well-being?

BEEVAS: Well, naturally, we're here for the community. The community has always been here for us. It started in my backyard and people coming together. And so we've always shown up for the community and the community has always shown up for us.

On -- in 2020, after George Floyd was lynched, we were targeted, but none of that -- the community stepped up, and 150 volunteers walked around our block 24/7, non-stop keeping us safe.

And so to answer your question, I'm not scared because, one, I'm protected by that, but I'm not scared because our community shows up and supports us every single day.

And -- and above all, we continue to support them. It's -- at the end of the day, we know that Minneapolis isn't that place. Everybody is meeting with compassion. And so whatever needs to be done to keep each other safe is what Minnesotans are all about. And so as a result, I'm not feeling that scared. And we know that we won't be targeted, hopefully.

[18:20:00]

MATTINGLY: We hear from the political side of things, the administration officials, the lawmakers, as someone who's seen what this has done to your community, in the community, what do you think needs to happen?

BEEVAS: Mm. I think, first of all, we -- cooler heads need to prevail right now. Enough is enough. We've gone far enough.

We need -- definitely need the drawdown. We definitely need the ICE out. We definitely need to get back to normal. Because right now, what we're seeing is due -- no due process, right? One can be held for however long. The people are being held for hours and days in some cases. And then as it relates to what's happening as a business owner, I can say this is an economic war being declared on businesses. So employees are scared to be out in public. Guests are scared to be out in public.

And business owners are afraid of themselves -- of what's happening around them and for themselves and for their own safety.

And above all, that means that slows down the overall economy. And everybody's getting hit where it hurts, where -- where it really matters.

And so as a result, I think what needs to happen is we all need to sit down. I'm willing to host President Trump. He's from New York. He knows -- he knows good jerk chicken. Come sit down, break bread with me or Frey and Governor Walz. And we can figure out how to solve this.

Because right now, enough is enough. It has gone too far. And quite honestly, we don't see the return. And we don't know who are the criminals, if you will, that would justify killing people on the streets of Minneapolis.

MATTINGLY: One, I think sitting down at your restaurant seems like a great idea, regardless of the issues. But Tomme Beevas, the chef and owner of Pimento Jamaican Kitchen in Minneapolis, was doing hurricane relief for Jamaica like four weeks ago, now in this moment. Really appreciate your time, sir. Thanks so much.

Well, today, marks one year since the deadly collision outside D.C.'s Reagan National Airport. CNN's Pete Muntean got access to the cockpit of an American Airlines plane to see the new technology they're hoping can prevent similar tragedies.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:08]

MATTINGLY: International lead families who lost their loved ones on American Airlines Flight 5342 gathered today to mark one year since that tragic collision over the Potomac River between the commercial airliner and an army Black Hawk helicopter.

The crash killed all 64 passengers and crew members on the American Airlines flight and three soldiers in the helicopter.

The technology known as ADS-B could help prevent the next tragic -- tragedy. But as CNN's Pete Muntean reports, most airlines aren't using it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): I'm stepping into the cockpit of an American Airlines jet to see how the airline is installing new equipment that investigators say could help prevent a repeat of last year's deadly mid-air collision over the Potomac River.

CAPT. DAVID SURRIDGE, AMERICAN AIRLINES: We believe in the safety enhancements of this.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): Captain David Surridge is leading Americans push to install new in-cockpit collision avoidance technology across its Airbus A320 fleet.

The new equipment is part of a system called Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast or ADS-B. The system transmits a flight's location to air traffic control once every second.

Now, American is installing an extension of that system to show its pilots the location of other planes in near real time. The system in airplanes is known as ADS-B In.

SURRIDGE: Our pilots can see the aircraft around them, and they can get information from them.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): During Tuesday's final public hearing on the Potomac crash, National Transportation Safety Board Chair Jennifer Homendy, slammed the Federal Aviation Administration for failing to require ADS-B displays in cockpits, something investigators have sought for years.

Homendy says if American Eagle Flight 5342 had ADS-B In, its pilots would have received a 59-second warning of impending collision and could have taken action to avoid it.

JENNIFER HOMENDY, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD CHAIRMAN: This was preventable. This was 100 percent preventable.

SURRUDGE: It gives me a list of all the aircraft that are around.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): In a flight simulator in Phoenix, I watched how the display installed in American's planes shows the altitude and direction of nearby aircraft.

SURRIDGE: I designated this aircraft by the fact that it's green.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): And even allows pilots to highlight a specific plane to follow or avoid.

Older collision avoidance technology currently mandated on airliners does not show direction and does not function at low altitudes just before landing.

MUNTEAN: It seems like this technology kind of fills in this blind spot that the other technology wasn't really able to give you information about it.

SURRIDGE: Exactly. This is proactive versus reactive.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): This week, investigators showed new recreations from the viewpoints of the Army Black Hawk helicopter and from the right seat of American 5342.

The seat occupied by 28-year-old First Officer Sam Lilley. His parents validate that it was impossible for Sam to see the approaching helicopter against bright city lighting.

TIM LILLEY, AVIATION SAFETY ADVOCATE: There's a technology that's available now. It's not very expensive and it can probably save thousands of lives.

MUNTEAN: If there is some sort of ADS-B In mandate, will it prevent future crashes?

LILLEY: Without a doubt.

SHERI LILLEY, AVIATION SAFETY ADVOCATE: Absolutely. NTSB has been recommending it for decades. And why are we disregarding the recommendations of our safety agency of the experts?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MUNTEAN: American Airlines says it now has more airplanes with ADS-B In than any other airline in the world.

About 300 aircraft, roughly a third of its fleet, already have the equipment. The airline tells me it hopes to install this across its entire fleet in the absence of any federal mandate.

The FAA says it generally supports ADS-B In similar technologies, though a big requirement might need action from Congress. One proposal known as the Rotor Act would require the (TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY) airspace. That bill has the support of Transportation Secretary Jennifer Homendy and awaiting action in the House.

[18:30:03]

You know, Phil, some small changes already since this crash one year ago tonight. This could be the lasting reform, the big reform. So those 67 lives weren't lost in vain.

MATTINGLY: Really important story. Pete, thanks so much as always.

Well, he previously served as a mayor before joining the Biden administration. So, what's Pete Buttigieg think of the ongoing clashes between the mayor of Minneapolis and the White House? I'll ask him live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: In our politics lead, as White House border czar Tom Homan announced plans for eventual drawdown of immigration agents in Minnesota today, Republican senator Susan Collins of Maine posted, quote, "I can report that Secretary Noem has informed me that ICE has ended its enhanced activities in the state of Maine. There are currently no ongoing or planned large-scale ICE operations here."

Here now is former transportation secretary for the Biden administration Pete Buttigieg. He's also the former mayor of South Bend, Indiana. Really appreciate your time.

Just to start kind of with what we've seen over the course of the last 36 hours, there's clearly a messaging shift. Total shift from the border czar this morning in his press conference. Susan Collins talking about the DHS. Secretary acknowledging a shift as well.

[18:35:14]

Do you believe there's an actual de-escalation here?

PETE BUTTIGIEG, FORMER TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Well, there's certainly a lot of damage control happening in the White House. They are changing their posture yet to be seen how much that changes conditions on the ground.

I think what's important to note is not just that this is happening, but why this is happening. At a time when our country seems so polarized. Actually, a lot of people have come together, not just Democrats. This is not a -- a left or right thing anymore, this is a right versus wrong.

And I think that's why you're seeing conservative voices, Second Amendment voices. Even some elected Republicans saying this cannot go on like this. This does not make us safe standing up to the president and requiring him to do the one thing that he swears he'll never do, which is back down.

MATTINGLY: What do you say to people who say, but the president ran on this. I mean, literally at the Republican National Convention, they were holding signs, largest deportation force in history. Stephen Miller was there from the beginning. They said, look, this is what people voted for.

BUTTIGIEG: Well, the president ran on immigration. I don't think most people who voted for him, in fact, I know most people voted for him, were in voting for the idea that an American citizen could be pushed to the ground, have federal agents take his gun away and then shoot him up to 10 times.

I don't think Americans were voting for immigration police to get more funding than the FBI itself. I don't think most Americans voted for scenes like what we saw of a woman opening her door at her home in Minnesota to find half a dozen federal agents wearing more tactical gear, more heavily armed than I was when I went outside the wire in Afghanistan and arresting her husband only to have his arrest ruled unconstitutional and illegal and have him returned a few days later.

This is not what most Americans left, right, or center want to see. And I think that's why you're seeing more Americans left, right, and center speak up and demand that things change.

MATTINGLY: I want to turn to the remarkable scene in Georgia. You talk about people seeing things and saying, wait, I don't know that that was what I was really -- I wanted lower prices. I wanted a different economy.

I don't think many were really keyed on this remarkable scene in Georgia where the FBI seized hundreds of boxes of 2020 election ballots related material from the Fulton County Elections Office. Senator Jon Ossoff called yesterday's FBI search in Fulton County a, quote, sore loser's crusade.

Georgia Republican chairman, Josh McKoon called the action long overdue, and quote, "Georgians have waited years for real answers about what happened in 2020. Getting every detail out, especially around ballot handling and processes in Fulton is absolutely critical."

What's going on here?

BUTTIGIEG: What's going on here is that the president is, again, weaponizing federal law enforcement for political ends. It's just like recently we saw the attorney general weirdly inserting a request for voter rolls in her demands with regard to Minnesota.

And again, most Americans want nothing to do with this. The president lost the election in 2020. He went to court dozens of times trying to prove otherwise. There's a reason why he lost again and again in court, which is that in a court of law, unlike on Twitter, you have to actually present evidence for your claims and there are punishments for lying, which is why more than 50 cases about this were rejected.

Trying to re-litigate this now is clearly raw politics. And I think an attempt to get us talking about anything but the president's economic failures.

He ran on lowering costs. And yet today, in the White House, he specifically promised to increase housing costs, which is actually what's been happening. He specifically took action that has directly increased the cost of groceries and consumer goods with his tariffs. And he's increasing utility bills by shutting down energy projects.

It is the opposite of what he promised. And, of course, he would want us talking and thinking about anything else.

MATTINGLY: Can I -- actually, I had that sound ready, because I want to ask you about housing and what the president said today related to the issue that you just referenced. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People that own their homes, we're going to keep them wealthy. We're going to keep those prices up. We're not going to destroy the value of their homes so that somebody that didn't work very hard can buy a home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: The political person in me says, you cut that in an ad pretty quick. But the policy person in me says, all right, what's -- what are the policy plans on housing which is a very difficult, intractable issue?

How do you respond to that? And where do you think Democrats are there? BUTTIGIEG: Well, first of all, build more housing. But also we need more responsible fiscal policy.

See, when you do a massive tax cut for the wealthy, it runs up deficits that lead to interest rates being higher which makes it harder to afford a home.

So the president is talking about both sides of his mouth. I also think it was very revealing that his idea of somebody who wants to buy a home is somebody who doesn't work very hard. Most people I know are working very hard, and yet, by some measures, the average age for a first-time home buyer has gone from about 28 to 40.

[18:40:09]

It cannot go on like this. And the president is doing nothing, nothing, to help make it possible to afford housing in this country.

If anything, he's making it worse, not just with the fiscal policy, but with this immigration policy that is going to make it harder to get anything built in this country.

MATTINGLY: Where do you land -- we're talking during the break. Mid- term season is in full gear. You're -- when I talk to Democrats, anybody who's running wants you, usually, in their district or -- or in their state.

You know, the idea of what the message should be, what the focus should be on. Karl Rove, I think we're saying, you know, this will be the first time Democrats can't run against just Trump. They need to run on policy issues.

What are those policy issues? But also, like, where does ICE fit into all of this? Because this was an issue, I think, in -- in the last couple of elections.

BUTTIGIEG: Well, specifically on ICE, I think Democrats need to stake out the common sense position that, of course, we need to have immigration laws, secure borders. We need to enforce those laws. But what this administration is doing is not making us safer, it is making everything worse.

More broadly, I think Democrats need to make sure that we are making clear what we would actually do. And I do sometimes worry that the Democratic Party could lapse into appearing like the party of the status quo.

What we are about is making sure that you are able to get through life better. Because you've got a government that's working for you. And that happens at every stage of your day, from when you get up in the morning and you get clean, safe drinking water because you have good basic city services, to being able to drive on a road to work or school that has good infrastructure funding, keeping it in good condition, to being able to have quality education, childcare you can afford, knowing that when you get to work, you are protected in your job. You have good benefits and good pay, coming home to a house you can actually afford. And if anything goes wrong, knowing you can afford the healthcare to cover you too, that's what we are about as a party. That is our message.

And while there is plenty going wrong, obviously, with the Trump administration, I don't think it's enough only to talk about him. Because if we're only talking about him, we're not talking about you.

MATTINGLY: This midterm year for many, many politicians who have run for president has been a really formative moment for them to make their decision. Even those that haven't sometimes will be out campaigning and that's when they kind of know.

I'm interested. You said you don't know if you planned to run again in 2028. But what would be the case for not running? What would you have to see to make you say, I don't -- I don't think this is it?

BUTTIGIEG: Look, a decision to run for any office, every time I've decided to run for something -- every time I've decided not to run for something, it's been based on looking at what the office calls for in that moment and looking at what I bring to the table.

And sometimes there was a match and sometimes there wasn't. It's also, you know, something you think about as a family.

And, you know, a year ago as I was weighing whether to run for statewide office in Michigan, thought a lot in these terms, including, you know, what that would mean for our family.

But what I'm sure of is how I should spend the next year because no matter what, I know that lifting up candidates I believe in, causes I believe in, going to places around the country, including places that don't always hear enough, I think, from people on my side of the aisle. That's the best thing I could do to make a difference right now.

MATTINGLY: Pete Buttigieg, really appreciate your time. Thanks so much.

BUTTIGIEG: I know -- I know we're talking politics, but I want to leave the set without acknowledging the pain of the families in that plane crash that happened one year ago. We're -- we're all thinking of them.

MATTINGLY: Yes. We're talking. It's surreal. It was one year ago, but remarkable to see our team interview the parents for certain. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time.

Well, the new documentary, "Melania" premiered -- premieres at the Kennedy Center tonight. It's not without some controversy. We'll explain, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:45:33] MATTINGLY: In our Politics lead, the president and first lady will arrive at the Kennedy Center soon for the premiere of "Melania."

Now, Amazon paid the First Lady Melania Trump $40 million for the documentary film, showcasing her return to the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELANIA TRUMP, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Everyone wants to know. So here it is.

(PHONE RINGING)

Hi, Mr. President. Congratulations.

D. TRUMP: Did you watch it?

M. TRUMP: I did not. Yes. I will see it on the news.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: CNN's Betsy Klein is on the red carpet. Betsy, just how unprecedented is this project?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN WHITE HOUSE SENIOR REPORTER: Oh, it's incredibly unprecedented, Phil. And behind me, we've basically got a second cabinet meeting convening of the President Trump today.

It's -- we've seen Secretary Bessent, Secretary Turner right behind me. We've got Brett Ratner, the director of the film right over my left shoulder right now.

But Melania Trump has really approached this role very differently this second term. She has largely split her time between Florida and New York and kept a very low profile with very few public appearances as well as very few media appearances.

That has all changed this week appearing on Fox News three times in the past few days promoting this documentary.

Former first ladies' write books and appear on the speaking circuit all the time. What is unprecedented here is that a sitting first lady is working to profit off of inside access to her private life. She is proving that a peak behind the curtain of her private world can be a multi-million dollar commodity.

And when we think about what to expect, it's worth noting she has served as an executive producer on this film. That means that she has full editorial control and participation in this movie.

And setting aside the question of whether this is a political calculation for Amazon, this is -- they are making a bet that there is going to be an audience for this documentary in theater.

Since Donald Trump entered office, Melania Trump has essentially been somewhat of a Rorschach test for the American public. Is she a MAGA queen? Or is she the leader of some secret resistance? There's just a lot of public curiosity about her.

But one thing the media tour for this documentary has made very clear is that she is her husband's wife. They are incredibly politically aligned.

So, the question now is, is that going to translate to ticket sales? And we'll have to see in the coming days. This movie releases on Friday, Phil.

MATTINGLY: No one has chronicled the first lady better than you have, Betsy Klein, over the course of this first year. Didn't imagine red carpet moments for you, but very happy. That's true. They're great work as always, my friend.

[18:50:10]

I want to bring in the panel now. You bought your ticket. Like which night do you go?

I don't go to theaters anymore. I watch things on streaming. So when it hits Amazon.

MATTINGLY: You will watch it?

YEMISI EGBEWOLE, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF AND ADVISER, BIDEN WHITE HOUSE PRESS OFFICE: I'll watch it. Oh, my gosh. Let me tell you something. People love a little peek behind the curtain. And people love to see how things operate in the background.

And we know so much about President Trump. But we don't know much about her. And I think it would be interesting to see how she's done the first lady role. And also, like, to see the way she operates with Barron to see her as a mother. I mean, those are things we just don't know about her.

So I do think there's curiosity. But in today's industry, I'm not so sure you'll sell out actual seats in a theater.

MATTINGLY: And I mean, I think that's kind of my biggest question of, you know, there's always this, like, there's no explicit connection to we did this because we really want to ensure that, like, our cloud contracts get approved by DOD.

But there's also, like, no way that anyone was thinking, this is going to make $100 million in the box office. Or am I --

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, sure. I mean, many movies don't make $100 million in a box office despite spending over $100 million. All right?

Well, look, I think this is interesting. She's notoriously private. I'm -- I'm curious to sort of peek behind the curtain. What does the first lady like to do at her private time? What does she like to do with her son? We don't see Barron a lot often. I'm curious to see if he'll be in this film a lot. And then when you think about it, what, $40 million to make this. Amazon has a market cap of $2.5 trillion. I mean, let's put that in perspective. This is nothing for Amazon to throw $40 million at this thing.

So, look, congratulations to the first lady. Maybe you don't sell out theaters. But I think it might do fairly well on the streaming services.

EGBEWOLE: Yes.

MATTINGLY: I think people will be more interested. I don't --

SINGLETON: Yes. I think so.

MATTINGLY: The figure numbers are going to be indicative of. It's first lady. Everyone's interested in the first lady. Everybody wants to see behind the scenes, if any first family, regardless of their pulling apart.

EGBEWOLE: And maybe checking him a bit. It'll be interesting to see how much I know in some interviews she said -- she said she could go YMCA is inappropriate.

MATTINGLY: You know, she has full control over this whole thing, right?

Yes. And, you know, Brett Ratner, at least "Rush Hour 4," also coming out soon, because --

SINGLETON: But I'm excited about that though.

MATTINGLY: As long as Chris Tucker is on it, I'm getting.

OK. I got to ask about the -- the cabinet meeting today, because we are used to these three-hour affairs, so much so that like Trump was mocking the fact that some of them are three hours saying he got really bored.

But at the beginning of -- to that point, at the very beginning, he made a point. Like, let's keep this short. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Some people said he closed his eyes. Look, it got pretty boring.

(LAUGHS)

I love these people. I love these people. But there's a lot of people. It -- it was a little bit at the boring side, but I didn't sleep. I just closed them because I wanted to get the hell out of here.

(LAUGH)

(END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: Like, you know what's bad, like, the sycophancy has gotten so over the top that he even drops like, man, that's a little -- a little much.

SINGLETON: They are long, Phil.

MATTINGLY: But I thought it was more interesting than anything else is, like, he never called on Kristi Noem. He made clear it was going to be short, but he called on very specific people, never called on his DHS, embattled DHS secretary.

EGBEWOLE: I mean, that was really the only person in that cabinet meeting that people probably wanted to hear from. They wanted to know how she was doing, and also to analyze her relationship with the president.

I think if he would have called on her, we would have gone bit over bit over how many questions did he ask her? Did he like her answers? Was she stuttering? Was she nervous?

I mean, I think to kind of keep her to the wayside and let's keep Tom Homan to the front is the smart thing for him to do right now.

SINGLETON: Politically smart. I don't disagree with that at all. And I agree with the president. Like, I'm not a big meetings guy.

Like, let's get to the point. What the hell are you doing? What's your department doing? And -- and then send me a note and I'll read the rest of it in lengthy documents.

So I don't blame the president, Phil, for closing his eyes because those meetings are long. And when you find these cabinet secretaries, they like to talk about things that frankly just aren't of importance to the president, so I don't blame him for that.

MATTINGLY: They're long because he like set the tone for them being long.

EGBEWOLE: Yes.

MATTINGLY: And then everybody was --

EGBEWOLE: Yes. But I have a quick response --

MATTINGLY: From like the Reince Priebus day. Like back in the first term, I remember watching the first one. I was like, oh, we're really going to do this. We're all just going to go --

SINGLETON: Everybody.

MATTINGLY: We're just going to go along -- go around and like (INAUDIBLE) in front of -- like you're all grown ass people. Like, what are you doing right now?

EGBEWOLE: Let's find --

MATTINGLY: And now it's just the norm. And then they turn -- they make it a one hour instead of three hours and we're like, whoa.

EGBEWOLE: Maybe an old impression. Because during the Biden era, it was very like quick. He would say something at the top and then you'd shout questions and we -- we would get the press out of there.

But I mean, I think three hours, especially in that room, I've been in that room before with a full cabinet and press, it's hot.

MATTINGLY: I feel (INAUDIBLE) the photographers, you have to carry the cameras, like, and all that and stuff.

I do want to ask you though. Not taking questions today. Are we over reading it? Especially, like he and Kaitlan, when Kaitlan's in the room, the president will eventually call on Kaitlan.

SINGLETON: Yes. He likes to call on Kaitlan's. Yes.

MATTINGLY: He wants the back and forth. He -- he respects her, I think, as a journalist. And the types of questions that she asks because he knows are going to be tough.

He didn't take any questions.

SINGLETON: He didn't.

MATTINGLY: Did it surprise you?

SINGLETON: It didn't surprise me at all. I mean, again, think about what's been going on this week with immigration, ICE, Minnesota, Minneapolis to be specific.

If I'm advising the president, we know the press will ask those questions. We have an investigation that we want to see continue in a transparent way. I don't want to muddy those waters, Mister President. Let's have a quick meeting, take no questions from the press. I think that was the right decision to make.

[18:55:12]

EGBEWOLE: Yes. I mean -- and I think this is also probably Susie Wiles' getting some directional control here.

Gone are the days. I mean, when things were flaming with DOGE in response, we had Elon Musk stand up and give a monologue to the entire cabinet.

I think he's shifting gears here and instead of becoming the story, letting the story just play out in Minnesota.

SINGLETON: Susie Wiles is running a tight ship as she should.

MATTINGLY: That's true. That's true. Relatively compared -- compared to the first term. Absolutely.

Guys, I appreciate you guys as always. Thanks so much for coming in.

SINGLETON: Thanks, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Well, millions of Americans could soon be in the path another round of winter weather. Thanks to a bomb cyclone and update on the forecast, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Forecasters are warning that a powerful winter storm is expected to impact the U.S. East Coast this weekend, as many of us are still dealing with the lingering ice, snow and a brutal cold streak. The worst conditions likely from Georgia up through both Carolinas to southern Virginia and possibly New England.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.