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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Sheriff Says, We Have DNA In Guthrie Case, Don't Know Whose It Is; Rubio, European Leaders Agree, Old World Order No Longer Exists; Trump Visits U.S. Troops In North Carolina; WSJ: "Constant Chaos" Inside Noem's Department Of Homeland Security; Ilia Malinin Fails To Medal After Shocking Performance. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired February 13, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Erica Hill in for Jake Tapper.

This hour, the new details in the search for Nancy Guthrie as we near two weeks since the 84-year-old disappeared.

[18:00:02]

CNN sat down with the Pima County sheriff this afternoon where he revealed investigators do have DNA but they don't know who it belongs to. What else the sheriff told CNN ahead in moments.

Also, new data out today shows inflation is slowing down. Some prices though still rising. So, why is that? And when can you expect to see some relief? Our economic team is breaking down those numbers.

Plus, an Olympic stunner, and I do want to give you a warning, if you don't want to know, just cover your ears for a minute. This is a big one. American figure skater Ilia Malinin, the quad god, favored to win the gold, making a number of unusual mistakes today, missing the podium entirely. CNN's Christine Brennan was inside the ring for today's competition. She'll join us live from Milan.

The Lead tonight, CNN one-on-one with the Pima County sheriff and learning new details about the search for Nancy Guthrie. Sheriff Chris Nanos telling CNN's Ed Lavandera they do have DNA but they don't know right now who it belongs to. The sheriff also revealing today engineers at Google, which owns Nest, are working to recover footage from the other cameras at Guthrie's home. Those engineers, of course, were key in recovering the doorbell footage that was released earlier this week. And this is coming out as they're also conflicting reports about the handling of evidence from that home.

Ed Lavandera pressing the sheriff on reports that his office was blocking the FBI from accessing key evidence in the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF CHRIS NANOS, PIMA COUNTY, ARIZONA: The story that, well, the FBI wasn't plugged in right away, they were plugged in right away that morning.

We are going to work this case as a team with our partners. There is no ego. Nobody's the lead. It is find Nancy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN's Nick Watt is near the Guthrie home in Pima County, Arizona. Nick, what more do we know tonight?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, the doorbell camera video of the suspect on the porch here, that has been the biggest evidence so far, sparking 5,000 calls just within a few hours after it was released. But the DNA that you just mentioned, that could be the breakthrough.

Now, the sheriff described that potential issue with the FBI like this. He said, listen, we have a lab in Florida and we had already given that lab, the DNA of everybody that we knew had been in that house. So, Nancy Guthrie herself, the housekeeper pool guy, anybody that they knew was in there, they'd got their DNA given it to the lab. So, that's why they wanted to keep on using that lab.

The sheriff then told Ed about some new DNA evidence that they have. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANOS: We have DNA. So, trust me, if we knew who it was, we'd be on it. But we do have some DNA. And we are continuing to work with those with the lab on that DNA analysis,

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Is that DNA that you have, you believe, might be the suspect? It just doesn't match anyone in a lab or --

NANOS: What we have is we have some DNA and we don't know whose it is, so we'll keep looking.

LAVANDERA: Well, that's significant.

NANOS: Well, it is, yes.

LAVANDERA: And that was from the house.

NANOS: I'm not telling you where it was. We have DNA.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: So, DNA, they don't know who it is, so that would suggest that that's not DNA of a person who is already on any criminal databases. That is very interesting.

The other thing they're trying to do right now that we heard from the sheriff, the same people that manage to get that porch video from the vaults, they are working on trying to get video from other cameras that were around Nancy Guthrie's home.

Now, we also heard that they found gloves maybe ten miles away from the home. They are continuing to scour. And also the sheriff said she will be found. Erica?

HILL: Nick, I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Also with us this hour, CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller and former FBI Assistant Director Frank Figliuzzi. It's good to have both of you here.

Frank, I'm want to start with you, if I could. So, Sheriff Nanos telling Ed earlier they do have -- as we just heard him say, they have that DNA, they don't know who it belongs to, but as Nick laid out as well, they have the DNA of a number of other people, so they know it is not them. They're working with the lab now to figure it out. Walk us through that process. What could this DNA lead to and what else would they have to compare it against to set them down the right path of identifying someone?

FRANK FIGLIUZZI, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, FBI COUNTERINTELLIGENCE DIVISION: So, at this point, we would assume that they've already taken family DNA, so they're going to be able to compare it against that and rule it out as different than the others. And likely, they've already done that.

There's a vast DNA database at the FBI that they can quickly run against this sample and see if it's known to them. It's sounding like they've done that. I'm just reading into this and that, that's not been fruitful yet. And so that gets us into the whole relatively new area of genetic genealogy and DNA, and whether they'll be reaching out to various private sector databases to see if someone might be related to the DNA sample that they have.

[18:05:16]

HILL: John, Ed also pressed the sheriff about, you know, what is the working relationship essentially between local law enforcement and the FBI, the sheriff denying claims that he's in any way blocking the FBI from accessing key evidence. I know you have a lot of sources that you're speaking with. What are you hearing?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I'm hearing -- and, you know, the sheriff says everything is fine between them. I'm hearing from my friends and former colleagues in the FBI that everything is fine between them. I have the feeling, Erica, that this is one of those things that some of this in some measure is on us, which is the story has quieted down. And, you know, people are listening to side conversations and rumors. And I'll tell you, I have been in the LAPD in cases with the FBI, in the NYPD with cases in the FBI and in the FBI watching cases with other agencies. And I know that from time to time there will be some grumbling among either agents or local deputies or detectives about who's handling what or who's taking charge of what aspect.

But the overall working relationship in this case has, so far, as far as I can tell, been seamless. And usually, in most cases, it is. I think that this is much ado about very little.

HILL: Okay. You know, I also -- and, John, stay with me for a second because I want to throw this one to you. You know, our colleague, Brian Stelter, wrote about this in his Reliable Sources newsletter this morning, these true crime influencers that are certainly a part of what I think a lot of people are seeing on social media. A number of them made their way to Tucson. One YouTuber actually ordered pizza to the crime scene last week, the sheriff calling out, in his words, the sometimes ugly world of social media and how it can be a nuisance. But it is, John, it's a delicate balance, right, between the reality that the public can help. I mean, we think about 2021, it was a tip from a YouTuber that led investigators to the area where Gabby Petito's body was found. How do you balance all of that? How does this work in the influencer age?

MILLER: Yes. I'm laughing because we're still learning. So, one of the challenges investigators face here is they're literally working in a giant fishbowl. They're surrounded by media at the sheriff's office, at the crime scene, at other family homes. That's a challenge. On the other hand, the flipside of that is it gives them immediate and easy access to worldwide global coverage at the drop of a hat when they have a new lead or something they want to crowdsource. So, that's a balance they have to live with.

The particular, you know, media influencers and online sleuth detectives can be helpful because they can research, find, analyze things, and every now and then come up with something, as you pointed out, that investigators might not have looked for in that particular time or place. But as we also remember, and Frank will remember this as well from the Boston Marathon bombing, they can start to point on public platforms to suspects who because of circumstantial things that they found and connections they've made, have nothing to do with the crime and put the case in jeopardy and put those people in jeopardy, as we saw in the Boston case.

HILL: Yes, it's an important reminder. There were also, of course, at the very beginning, at the start of the investigation, these possible ransom notes sent to new stations. It's not clear publicly that those notes, or, frankly, any demands were actually from kidnappers. Frank, you know, as John was pointing out, things have quieted a little bit. What is your understanding of where that part of the investigation stands?

FIGLIUZZI: So, first, let's make something clear. Whether or not these demands are coming from people responsible for what happened to Nancy or not, they are committing a crime. This is an extort -- these are extortionate demands, and as the gentleman from California has learned recently, you will be charged federally and you may end up in prison. So, I think that's important for people to understand.

Next, every day that goes by that we don't get a proof of life makes it less likely than not that these demands simply are a ruse or an afterthought by someone connected, saying, I need to make whatever happened to Nancy look like an actual kidnapping, when perhaps it's not. It's distracting. They all have to be tracked down and followed. People are going to go to prison for these, whether they're responsible for what happened to Nancy or not. But every day that passes without proof of life makes it less likely these are legitimate. HILL: Yes, which just adds to, frankly, the heart-wrenching nature of this moment and this investigation.

Before I let you go, John, we were sort of struck our colleagues saw pool workers at the Guthrie home today. Not clear what they were doing, there was law enforcement there on the scene, but I think a lot of people see that and they think, wait a minute, there's an active investigation happening here and yet a pool company is showing up.

[18:10:06]

Does that -- I mean, does that raise any alarm bells for you, John?

MILLER: No, quite the opposite. I would say, you know, first of all, when you're in the middle of a kidnapping, the first thing to go by the wayside is details, keeping up with, you know, emails, bills, everything else. Is it possible that this is the regular pool maintenance and the family forgot to turn that off? It'd probably be the last thing I would think about.

I would suggest it's far more likely that the FBI and the sheriff's office said, you know, we've checked the septic tank, the surrounding areas and visually the pool, but we would like to get into the traps and drains and systems inside the pool to see if anything was discarded and went down there and wanted the help from the people who normally maintain it. That would be my best guess.

HILL: Yes. John Miller, Frank Figliuzzi, really appreciate your insight and your expertise, thank you.

We do have much more to come now on that breaking news in the Guthrie case ahead, including a closer look at how investigators were able to recover footage from the missing doorbell camera, also the questions about privacy concerns that this is all raising.

Plus, European leaders and top U.S. officials meeting at the Munich Security Conference seemingly agreeing the old world order, it no longer exists. CNN is live in Munich, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

HILL: In our World Lead, a dire message from European leaders at the Munich Security Conference today. The motto for this year's gathering of security experts is under destruction, a bit of a warning there. Some going so far as to say the old world order is already gone for good.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRIEDRICH MERZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR: We have to put it in even harsher terms. This order, as flawed as it has been even in its heyday, no longer exists.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HILL: It was a feeling echoed by Secretary of State Marco Rubio just hours earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: The old world is gone, frankly, the world I grew up in, and we live in a new era in geopolitics,

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is live in Munich this hour. So, the conference placing a lot of the blame for this disruption squarely, it would seem, on the United States. I mean, how pervasive is that feeling among leaders there?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, remember this is a Europe dealing with the trauma still of not only what they've seen happening with Ukraine, the biggest security crisis to hit the European continent since, really, World War II, but also the debacle, frankly around Greenland and President Trump's threats to potentially even use military force against what is Danish territory. They're still in recovery here. I think Europe that's trying to say it has its own plan that's willing to take charge of its own defense. Yes, they're committing to spending more like the United States wants, but I think people still here recovering from last year's speech from U.S. President J.D. Vance, who criticized falsely Democratic standards here, freedom of speech.

We saw the French and German leaders getting out ahead of that today, making comments, suggesting that they didn't want to see MAGA's cultural wars played out in Europe, and that indeed, in the words of Emmanuel Macron, the French president, that territorial sovereignty was as important to France as its ability to decide its own freedom of speech, rules and control its own democracy, so trying to set their own standards here ahead of a key speech tomorrow by U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio. He'll also meet Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy here.

But be in no doubt Europe is still reeling from this. You call the old world order old, kind of means it's past and defunct, but I think people here are still trying to work out exactly what takes its place. They know Europe has to be in charge of its own destiny more. It can't rely on the United States too, but it knows the U.S. doesn't want to back out entirely. And they also know too it's exceptionally hard to read exactly where President Trump's going to land day by day and therefore hard to form policy.

What's not getting as much focus so far, as it has in the past, is Ukraine in itself. We heard from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, a smaller gathering just hours ago, a very clear definition of what's going on here. He said, it's only Ukraine defending Europe. It's only Europe paying for Ukraine's defense. It's only the United States that can stop Russia and it's only Putin who wants to continue the war. I think that puts in stark focus the challenges here.

Marco Rubio will meet Zelenskyy tomorrow, many suggests, and, of course, the pressure for a peace deal will be placed again on Kyiv. Zelenskyy today saying they felt it was unfair Ukraine should be being forced into compromises here.

So, a lot riding here and still ultimately a Europe reeling from the enormous unpredictability of the current White House occupant, perhaps hoping to avoid the trauma of last year with Secretary Rubio's speech tomorrow, but a real sense of everything ultimately being up for grabs and how hard it is to formulate a coherent policy when so much constantly changes. Erica?

HILL: Yes, absolutely. Nick, I really appreciate it. Thank you.

President Trump telling reporters just moments ago he believes regime change in Iran is the best option on the table. We have his comments, which come as the U.S. moves more troops to the region. So, does that mean another strike is imminent? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

HILL: In our Politics Lead, President Trump visiting North Carolina's Fort Bragg this afternoon, looked and sounded a lot like a campaign rally. The president though did get to his main goal. He was there really to thank the troops who took part in last month's operation in Venezuela that captured Nicolas Maduro and his wife.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: With your help America is winning again, America is respected again, and perhaps most importantly, we are feared by the enemies all over the globe. They fear us. And, you know, I don't like to say fear, but sometimes you have to have fear because that's the only thing that really will get the situation taken care of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Joining me now, North Carolina Republican Congressman Chuck Edwards. Congressman, nice to have you with us tonight.

The president referencing fear there. Earlier at the Munich Security Conference, Germany's leader said that he believes the international world order, which was based on rights and rules, in his words, no longer exists. How do you see the world in this moment, sir?

REP. CHUCK EDWARDS (R-NC): Well, I certainly applaud the work of the fine, brave men and women at Fort Bragg here in North Carolina. They are a gleaming icon of pride for us here at this moment. And the way that I see this simply is that the world has been watching. They know what we're capable of, and they now know that we're willing to use the force that we saw in Venezuela.

HILL: The president -- speaking of force, the president used this trip to also -- his speech, rather, I should say, to send a warning to Iran. And a reporter then asked the president whether he wants to see regime change in Iran. Here's how he answered.

[18:25:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, it seems like that would be the best thing that could happen.

Let's see what happens. In the meantime, we have -- meantime, we have tremendous power, has arrived, and additional power, as you know, and other carriers going out shortly. So, we'll see how. If we could get it settled for once and for all, that would be good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Do you think the U.S. will in fact attack Iran again?

EDWARDS: That's difficult to say. And that's a decision for the commander-in-chief to make. What I think is on display is the power, the might, the willingness of the American military and the tenacity of our president to be able to use that to help make the world a safer place.

HILL: Focusing a little bit more on domestic issues here, the president today touting the economy, today's lower than expected inflation numbers. Here's a little bit of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We had a great first term. We had the best economy in history, but this is blowing it away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: I'm curious, what are you hearing from your constituents specifically about how they feel about this economy?

EDWARDS: Everyone is concerned about the inflation that we've experienced over the last several years. We're seeing some glimmers of hope. For example, you know, egg prices are about half what they were. We see interest rates well below what they were a year ago. Gasoline is the lowest that it's been in five years.

All of these things begin to add up for a positive economy. We're seeing the GDP rise for the first time in several years. While we've got a lot of work to do, while there's a lot of concern out there, there's reasons for hope.

HILL: I do want to get you before I let you go, I know you voted for the SAVE Act, the House -- which the House passed. If it does become law, one of the main concerns that we've heard is about these tougher voter identification standards when a person goes to register to vote. I'm not talking about voter I.D. in a federal election, concern specifically that if somebody doesn't have a passport, if they don't have access to their birth certificate. If their birth certificate has their maiden name and they've changed their name, it's harder for them to register. Is that a concern for you that this could add a hurdle for residents in your district when it comes to registering to vote?

EDWARD: It is not an undue hurdle at all. In fact, the SAVE Act includes many safeguards that allow it to be easier for those folks with the name changes, like you're talking about, to be able to vote. And we give a great deal of latitude to the states to help write those exceptions.

HILL: We will be watching for all those developments.

Republican Congressman Chuck Edwards, I appreciate you joining us tonight. Thank you.

EDWARDS: All right. Thanks for having me.

HILL: Back to our breaking news here, in moments, the Pima County sheriff telling CNN that Google is working to recover more videos from the home of Nancy Guthrie. Those details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

HILL: In our National Lead, the chilling surveillance video showing this armed massed individual outside Nancy Guthrie's home on the morning of her disappearance. It's been the biggest break in the case so far, but, of course, it came ten days into the investigation. Investigators say that's because Guthrie did not have an active Nest subscription, which would normally provide for cloud storage for video recordings.

Joining us now is the chief product officer at SimpliSafe, Hooman Shahidi. It's good to have you with us.

So, this investigation also, we should point out, raises and privacy concerns. Engineers at Google, which owns Nest, were able to recover that footage from Guthrie's home cameras. They used residual data. If that footage is not being deleted, I think a lot of people are wondering where is it being stored and why?

HOOMAN SHAHIDI, CHIEF PRODUCT OFFICER, SIMPLISAFE: Erica, thanks for having me. You know, at least at SimpliSafe, we give customers the choice of whether they want their video stored or they just want to do live views and not have their videos stored. For us, if you don't want your video stored, it never hits our cloud.

HILL: So, there would be no way to retrieve it if somebody did that, like in this instance?

SHAHIDI: Yes, and that's why we give the customers choice to be able to save their videos in the cloud and be able to view them later. And, really, it's about the privacy that we provide our customers.

HILL: I mean, just out of curiosity, because so much has been made of the fact that it wasn't initially stored because there wasn't this subscription, have you seen a change among your customers in terms of subscribers as there's an uptick if people upgrading to that subscription since Mrs. Guthrie went missing?

SHAHIDI: Yes. We are actually seeing a lot more traffic to our website. And, in fact, fromtThe area of Ms. Guthrie's home, we're actually seeing a 50 percent spike in web traffic to SimpliSafe because they've been made so much aware of, well, how important security is to protecting your family and your home.

HILL: I will say, I just learned this next fact today, but that there are a number of cities, including Washington, D.C., where I am tonight, a number of cities will pay residents for access to their camera footage when they need it by law enforcement. This is not a blank check, we can go look into your file at any time, but how common is that, that law enforcement would strike those deals with their residents to make sure that they can access it when needed?

SHAHIDI: So, what we know is that it's actually a pretty niche offering from cities generally because, you know, it provides additional information for them for -- to follow up on criminal activity. And we really sort of believe that, you know, the video belongs to the customer. And if they want to share it with law enforcement, if they want to share it with their family, great, but we never get in the middle of that because it is their property, in our view.

HILL: Can you explain the difference between an active and a passive response system?

[18:35:02]

SHAHIDI: Absolutely. You know, the trends in home security is becoming more and more proactive. The whole point of proactive security is that agents can actually act before the bad guy has an opportunity to damage home or hurt your family.

In fact, we have a service called Active Guard, where our agents will proactively talk to potential intruders. And what we find is that the vast majority of the time that human intervention is enough for the perpetrators to leave the property and not to commit the crime. And I think that's a really big opportunity to reduce, you know, crimes that may impact your home and your family.

HILL: Security systems are one solution for some people, they may not work for everybody. What are other ways for people that are not a security system but other ways that you can protect your home from intruders?

SHAHIDI: Yes. You know, it's important to just take the general precautions as it is like not making sure that people know that your home is empty, not letting packages line up on the front door, also keeping the lights on. There's a lot of smart home solutions out there that allow the lights to turn on and off during the day, making the house look occupied. But, really, those are measures that are really good or -- well, not good, but really savvy criminals understand. And that's where security comes into place, home security comes into place and allows us to have a 24/7 professionally moderate system that can actually inform the authorities when something goes on or have proactive agents react in a situation where a crime may be happening.

HILL: Hooman Shahidi, good to have you with us tonight. Thank you.

SHAHIDI: Thank you.

HILL: There is new data out today which shows prices are rising on some of the items many Americans use every day. So, where exactly are you paying more? You may have a sense, but some things could surprise you too.

Plus, your -- warning, this is a spoiler alert, people. So, if you are a big Olympics fan, just cover your ears for just a moment, maybe turn away. Do not turn off the T.V. though. Woo, an absolute stunner at the Olympics tonight, three American men, including the quad god, Ilia Malinin, competing for a place on the podium, the end result, not at all what you were expecting.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

HILL: We are back now with our Money Lead. A bit of a mixed report card in terms of the American economy, inflation in January was the lowest it's been in eight months. That's good news. The cost of many things though that we use every day still going up. And as for those tariffs from President Trump, new evidence that it is you, the consumer, paying for those.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich has more.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Erica, some welcome news for Americans to start the year. Inflation cooled in January, rising 2.4 percent annually compared to 2.7 percent in December, and rising 0.2 percent from December to January on a monthly basis. Falling gas prices helped lead the decline. Now, inflation is still not at that 2 percent target rate that the Federal Reserve aims for but it is moving in the right direction.

Everyday items and monthly expense items saw some of the biggest annual increases and decreases. Still, those pesky higher prices at the grocery store persist. Uncooked ground beef up 17 percent in the last year, piped gas, which is natural gas for home heating, up 10 percent annually, electricity up 6 percent. A little relief at the grocery store, eggs down a whopping 34 percent and gasoline, the gas price is down 8 percent annually.

Now, even though inflation is cooling, prices could have been rising at a slower pace if not for tariffs. A new survey by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York found that Americans, not foreigners, as the Trump administration has suggested, are paying 90 percent of President Trump's tariffs, and that has meant increased costs for Americans. According to the tax foundation, U.S. households paid a thousand dollars more in taxes in 2025 compared to 2024, and this year, Americans are expected to pay $1,300 in taxes because of tariffs. Now, businesses have been trying to shoulder the added costs from tariffs, but according to the Congressional Budget Office, consumers are bearing 70 percent of the cost of tariffs versus businesses, which are shouldering 30 percent. And, Erica, foreign exporters are taking on about 5 percent.

HILL: Vanessa, I appreciate it, Vanessa, with the numbers for us there.

Joining me now, a member of the Huddle, a daily online political show with veteran journalist Rachael Bade, Democratic Strategist Dan Turrentine, and former Trump White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer. Nice to see all of you on this Friday the 13th, I just realized.

So, Vanessa just ran through some of those numbers for us. The president weighing in when he was in North Carolina earlier today on the numbers in the economy, here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And we had a great first term. We had the best economy in history, but this is blowing it away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Sean, you were there obviously for some of that first term. He says it's blowing the first term away. Americans aren't feeling that, right? We know from the polling. Why isn't any of this showing up?

SEAN SPICER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, it is. I mean, certain polls show that Americans are feeling it real wages are up 1.25 percent. They were down 1.5 or 1.4 percent over the four years of Biden. So, I mean, some of this just takes time for people to start feeling it. Your correspondent there noting some of these things going into the grocery store. I notice it every day when I go by the gas station. It was $2.89 a gallon today when I went by. I mean, those are things that people see and feel every single day.

[18:45:00]

The price of eggs, as you guys noted, down 34 percent, there're so many things.

But it's not going to happen overnight. As she mentioned, it's moving in the right direction and more and more Americans are feeling. That some of this will take time. It -- four years of Biden doesn't go away overnight.

HILL: In terms of how Americans feel, I will say recent CNN polling found 39 percent nationwide, just 39 percent approve of the president's handling of the economy, 61 percent disapprove.

Democrats, though, don't get a pass here, of course, because Democrats are really struggling, as they have been for some time when it comes to the messaging and even how to message on affordability. How critical is it that they figure that out? DAN TURRENTINE, FORMER DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, look, I think

we've got some recent examples that have worked in Virginia and in New Jersey. Mikie Sherrill and Abigail Spanberger focused like a laser beam on affordability think about what we were talking about late last year. Health care. That is an issue that is top of mind with people. The tariffs are something we proactively put on countries.

So I mean, we have the pieces to talk about affordability. We just have to not get sidetracked by what you know, is thrown out at us daily with this administration.

HILL: You talk about tariffs. You know ill put it up again. Vanessa noted this, but this was from the New York Fed, economist at the New York Fed. Ninety percent of those tariffs. The economic burden is falling on U.S. firms falling on consumers.

I mean, the warnings were there, right, that consumers, Americans would be paying when it comes to the tariffs, does that number surprise you at all?

RACHAEL BADE, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST: I mean, look, I'm not an economist, but it's certainly a challenge for the White House because they have been saying, look, it's going to be foreigners who are paying this. It's not going to be Americans -- Americans are going to be benefiting from this, 90 percent, that's a lie. And that's why you have a lot of Republicans in Congress who privately are still terrified of the tariffs.

I mean, you saw this week, for the first time, I mean, since Trump became president again, they are now able to they being Democrats force votes that put Republicans on records on tariffs. Do they support them? Do they know?

This week, we saw six Republicans break with the party and vote with Democrats saying they don't support tariffs on Canada. That number is probably going to grow unless, you know, voters start to say the economy is feeling better and you see it in the polling. I mean, this is a challenge for them. They were hoping the administration would go back on tariffs, hoping that they would sort of reduce some of them. He hasn't done that.

TURRENTINE: But you can tell people that foreigners are paying them. But if you're sitting there in your company and you're sitting around the table talking about this, every company on earnings calls and other things are saying, we are having to deal with increased costs. So, for the average American, you can B.S. them all you want, but in their real lives of real people, they're seeing it.

SPICER: There's three key factors here.

Number one, at some point, some politician and it was President Trump that did it, had to say that how we were being treated as a country, our service providers, our manufacturers are not being treated fairly. We were being able to go into another country and face massive tariffs. They had virtual tariff and non-tariff barrier entry into our country. That's just not fair. So, either we can keep kicking the can down the road or do something about it.

Number two is at the end of the day, either people feel the economy is doing better or not when they walk into that grocery store when they go by the gas station. And I think more people are seeing it move in the right direction and feeling it.

And number three, just politically speaking, it's either going to pay off or it won't. I mean, the bottom line is, I'm a big believer that by the second and third quarter, all of the elements in the policies in the big beautiful bill will be firing on all cylinders. And that's backed up by the fed and by a lot of private earnings calls. People believe that that's going to happen.

If it does, we win in November. If it doesn't, we lose. But all -- we put all of our chips on that right now.

TURRENTINE: And that report, though, said the last six months of 2025, net loss of 1,000 jobs. One month, that was good. Not great. Isn't going to be enough? They need a lot more of this.

HILL: I do want to turn to this because we are running low on time, but I was just struck by -- and I'm sure you all were. This was one heck of a story in "The Wall Street Journal" about Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski and the, quote, "constant chaos" at DHS under Noem's leadership. I mean, just some of the details were a lot and here are a couple that I'll lay out for our friends who are joining us.

Within DHS, Noem and Lewandowski frequently berate senior level staff, give polygraph tests to employees they don't trust, and have fired employees. In one incident, Lewandowski fired U.S. Coast Guard pilot after Noem's blanket was left behind on a plane, they were forced to change planes. This was why, according to people familiar with the incident, then they had to take him back because there was no one else to fly the plane, which is also fascinating.

I mean, how much of this reporting right are you hearing when you're talking to people? Right? Over the last, whatever, year-plus, as all of this is starting to come out, how much chaos are you learning about?

BADE: The story was bonkers. And yet it wasn't surprising, I think to the three of us.

I mean, we've been hearing about this for a while, people agitating against Noem in the administration. And that story to me, read like a warning shot from the inner circle to Noem. I mean, the level of detail, as you said. I mean, there was reporting in that story about what the president thinks about her relationship with Corey Lewandowski. I mean, it was very detailed.

And of course, we've seen the reporting. The president says he's with her. He's not going to get rid of her. But other people in the administration are super angry and like, do not like what she's doing. And they're saying, shape up or you're going to be out.

HILL: Some senior officials, this was in the piece told "The Journal", DHS is the, quote, "biggest headache so far in the second term".

[18:50:00]

Sean, the president had no trouble firing people in his first term. Second term looks a little different.

SPICER: It does. But I think the president more than any other politicians, understands perception. And as soon as this becomes a bigger problem, I have no problem --

HILL: How much bigger does it have to get?

SPICER: Well, but right now, they're getting results. I mean, that's the thing, is that once they start -- Homan, Tom Homan came in, you saw that that was a pretty big rebuke to Kristi Noem and her leadership, to say he's going to take over the biggest part of your portfolio, right?

There's no question, as Rachael said, that there's a lot of people in the senior staff who have their knives out for both Noem and more particularly for Corey, right? And so, at some point, the question is if they don't get their act cleaned up and start worrying about how this place is being run, I don't know how much time is left on that clock.

TURRENTINE: Well, and look, that's the problem because in that story is the fact that all these made for TV and made for social media moments that got out of control, most of the people of ICE, in the White House didn't want them to do it.

HILL: Right.

TURRENTINE: That's a failure of leadership on Kristi Noem's part.

HILL: The president even questioning according to that article, where the money was found for her to make some of those ads. So, watch this space.

TURRENTINE: Other than that --

HILL: Nice to see all of you.

SPICER: Happy Valentine's Day.

HILL: Happy Valentine's Day.

A controversy growing at the Olympic Games over the scoring in ICE dancing after France beat the United States. Quite a score from the French judge. So, will the Americans appeal? Do they have the grounds for it? Plus, a stunner in competition on the ice tonight.

All of that on the other side of this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:35] HILL: In our sports lead, an absolutely stunning evening at the Winter Olympics. And if you are waiting to watch in prime time, just cover your eyes for one moment. I don't want to ruin it for you.

Okay, here we go. Ilia Malinin, the American skater known as the Quad God, missed the podium entirely after being favored to win the gold.

And in addition to the shock, it was a really emotional day at the rink. Ilia's teammate Maxim Naumov, also competing, dedicating his performance to his parents who were killed in the plane crash near the D.C.'s airport last year, as he waited for his score, Max holding up this photo of him with his parents as a young child, a photo I think we've all come to know.

CNN sports analyst Christine Brennan was at the rink for today's men's skate -- free skate final.

I mean, I think we have to start with Ilia Malinin. My heart just goes out to him. So much pressure on him, so much excitement for him. What is he saying?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: You know, he's handling it beautifully. He's a class act. He's 21 years old and you know, people hear about the self-proclaimed Quad God, Erica, and you kind of think maybe he's confident or too cocky. Yes, he's certainly got some of that. But it's a delightful confidence.

I've known him for four years. He's a terrific person. Looks you in the eye, lingers, answers any question any time.

His mom is his hero. She was eighth in the 1998 Olympics that were won by Tara Lipinski and Michelle Kwan coming in second. I covered his mom, you know, American through and through. Born in northern Virginia. So really, you know, good young man.

And as he's telling us in the mixed zone about an hour ago after this meltdown, probably the worst meltdown we have ever seen from a favorite in Olympic history in figure skating. It was that bad. Just devastatingly terrible performance on the ice.

You know what he said? He felt like it was just slipping out of his hands and he couldn't control it. He said it was moving so fast and he kind of didn't know what was happening out on the ice. The nerves got to him, the pressure.

And I think, Erica, if anyone ever doubted just how much pressure there is at the Olympic Games, you watch this young man falling twice and also popping two quads again. He usually does six or seven, and he could barely land one or two and literally unable in the air to go around four times it was a stunning performance of nerves and, and just everything getting to him kind of the weight of the world on his shoulders with all the publicity. And it finally came crashing down on him.

HILL: Yeah, it's a lot. I mean, that pressure, I think it's so hard for any of us to imagine what that must be like on that world stage in that moment.

There's also so much raw emotion, and especially when Maxim Naumov took the ice, his message to his parents up there on the big screen, mom and dad this is for you. I mean, so many people pulling for him. And of course, you can't forget that the history, the legacy of his parents, as you watch him out there on the ice.

BRENNAN: Exactly. And he was never going to win a medal. Obviously, Ilia Malinin did not win a medal either. The U.S. was shut out. But being here was the victory for Max.

And also, you know, he had retired, Erica, he basically thought he couldn't go on after losing his mom and dad, who were Russian world champions in 1994. I covered them. They were at the Olympics and then, of course, became coaches in the United States, just like Ilia Malinin's mom and dad from, you know, from former Soviet skaters.

And so yes, he carried on and he knew his parents would, would want him to be there. And he did it. He made the Olympics a wonderful achievement for Maxim Naumov.

HILL: It absolutely is. I can't let you go without talking quickly about the controversy when it comes to Wednesday's ice dancing final, the scoring for the American duo, they were expected to win the gold.

Boy, did the French judge really like the French? The French ultimately, gold medal winners. There's a lot of question could the American duo -- could they contest that at all? Could they appeal

BRENNAN: They needed to appeal within the first 24 hours. And so that window is closed. But there can be letters of concern and appeal and just in general, asking for answers up to a year and so my sense is the U.S. will probably try to do that. The French judge was completely out of line with the other judges on the panel. The French team did win the gold you know, ice dance is different, right, from a sport -- from the men's or the women's where there's jumping.

And so, I think a lot of ways the artistic side takes over. And clearly there was a lot of controversy in that

HILL: Christine, really appreciate it great to see you. Thank you.

A quick note here to Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION," Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, White House border czar Tom Homan, Oklahoma Senator Markwayne Mullin and Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear will all be on the program, Sunday, 9:00 a.m., noon Eastern, right here on CNN.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now.