Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Decries Allies Who Rebuff Calls For Help In Strait Of Hormuz; Massive Storm Threatens Entire East Coast; Cuba's Power System Suffers Total Collapse; TSA Agents Go Unpaid In Partial Shutdown; Rep. Joyce Beatty (D-OH) is Interviewed About Kennedy Center Board Approves Two-Year Closure For Renovations; Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) Is Interviewed About His 17 Terms In The House; Polls Show Concerns Increasing About Trump's Mental Acuity. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired March 16, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Yes. Look, I'm glad you raised that point, and we can actually leave our viewers, we're up against the 5:00 hour, but we have a slide that shows just the contributions that our NATO allies made in Afghanistan and Iraq. You know, there are 7,000 U.S. casualties, 600 from the United Kingdom, plus more from others. So, now, of course, we report 200 Americans injured in this war. Senator Coons, thank you very much. Really appreciate your time. Don't go anywhere. "The Lead with Jake Tapper" starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Trump says he's talking about the Iran war with a regretful former president. Who might that be? "The Lead" starts right now. As the war with Iran enters its third week, President Trump is criticizing U.S. allies who say they do not want to be pulled into the conflict, but the president also claims there's a former U.S. president who privately praised his decision to take out the regime's leader and saying he wishes he had done it.

Plus, nearly 100 million Americans are at risk for a severe storm today from feed of snow to tornadoes to dangerous hail and damaging winds. We're going to go live to the CNN Weather Center for a brand- new forecast.

And as some Democrats call for a new generation of leaders to take the helm, Congressman Jim Clyburn says he's not going anywhere. The 85- year-old just announced he's going to run for his 18th term in Congress. I'll ask him why ahead.

Welcome to "The Lead." I'm Jake Tapper, and we begin with breaking news in our "World Lead." President Donald Trump is pressuring and attempting to shame some U.S. allies to help secure the Strait of Hormuz as Iran's near-blockade of the strait cuts off oil from the global market.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Numerous countries have told me they're on the way. Some are very enthusiastic about it and some aren't. The level of enthusiasm matters to me. Well, we want to know, do you have any minesweepers? Well, we'd rather not get involved, sir. I said, you mean, for 40 years, we're protecting you and you don't want to get involved in something that is very minor? Very few shots are going to be taken because they don't have many shots left.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The president would not say which countries are on the way to help and which ones are not and what level of enthusiasm those on the way might be bringing with them, but he did knock his British counterpart, Keir Starmer, for saying that he wants to meet with his team before making the decision on whether or not to help with security in the strait. President Trump also said he knew Iran would use the Strait of Hormuz as a weapon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I knew about the strait, that it would be a weapon, which I predicted a long time ago, predicted all of this stuff. You guys were very generous in that. I predicted all of it. I predicted Osama bin Laden would knock out the World Trade Center. I said, that's a bad guy. You better get him. One year before, exactly, I wrote it in a book. You can even check. About a year before the World Trade Center came down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I predicted Osama bin Laden would knock out the World Trade Center. I wrote it in a book. You can even check. About a year before the World Trade Center came down. OK, Mr. President, we checked. Your book is called "The America We Deserve." It was published in 2000, one year before the September 11th attacks. In fact, because you've made this claim numerous times, we've been checking and rechecking the book for years, and it does not say anything about bin Laden knocking down the World Trade Center.

So, if Donald Trump predicted Iran using the strait as a weapon in the same way he predicted that bin Laden would attack the World Trade Center a year before it happened, then he did not predict it, which would help explain why, in this third week of the war, the president appears to be struggling to get allied support to help reopen the strait and secure a shipping lane for commercial vehicles.

Either way, the president is now very well aware of the current strait situation and aware that oil prices are not on their way down and aware that U.S. gas prices have surged to $3.72 a gallon, the highest since October 7, 2023, also aware, no doubt, that today, Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, the IRGC, urged the U.S. to evacuate personnel from U.S.-linked industrial facilities across the region, warning of imminent attacks.

The war in Iran, as of right now, showing no clear end in sight. The American people still uninformed as to what specific metrics have to be met for President Trump to decide that this war is over.

Let's get right to CNN's Alayna Treene at the White House. Alayna, President Trump just spoke again in the Oval Office about the Strait of Hormuz situation.

[17:05:00]

What has he said today about U.S. allies helping to secure the strait?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, he's kind of moved all over the place. And one, he has put an extraordinary amount of pressure, I should say, on a lot of these allies, many of which have so far said they are cautious to heed his calls to help reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

Just to go through them, I mean, we've heard from the German foreign minister, him saying that he does not see NATO assuming the responsibility of reopening the strait from the U.K. prime minister. He said at one point today that the U.K. will not get drawn into war with Iran. And we even heard from the Japanese prime minister, someone, Jake, who is actually meeting with the president here at the White House later this week, saying that for now, they are not going to be doing that.

Now, the president, for his part, despite again this enormous amount of pressure he is trying to put on allies to reopen it, he's arguing that he doesn't necessarily need their help, that he wants to see how they would react. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We don't need anybody. We're the strongest nation in the world. We have the strongest military by far in the world. We don't need them. But it's interesting. I'm almost doing it in some cases, not because we need them, but because I want to find out how they react.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now, this comment from the president comes as we also heard quite an ominous, I'd argue, warning from him yesterday saying, we will remember. That was his message to these countries who do not respond to his calls for their assistance. And I'd remind you that this comes from a president who has openly mused, Jake, about withdrawing U.S. support from NATO.

But all to say, from my conversations with Trump administration officials, they argue that they do believe they will, at some point, be able to get an international coalition together to try and work to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. Of course, it comes as we know that many people inside that building behind me are extremely concerned about its closure, about what it is doing to oil prices, which have continued to take higher in the days that it remained closed. We're seeing that impact on gas prices. And so, it's definitely a problem they need to address. It's just unclear how exactly they're going to go about it.

TAPPER: They had anticipated that this was going to be a problem. One would think they would have set up an international coalition before they attacked on February 28th. Alayna Treene at the White House for us, thanks so much. Let's discuss this with retired Vice Admiral Kevin Donegan. He's a former commander of the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet. He has led teams that planned and executed combat, counterterrorism, and anti-piracy operations at sea and in the Middle East. Vice Admiral, how important is it that other countries help the U.S. to secure the Strait of Hormuz, to escort commercial vessels? What exactly could ally countries do?

KEVIN DONEGAN, FORMER COMMANDER, U.S. NAVY'S FIFTH FLEET: Hey, thanks, Jake. It's good to be with you. I think it's important, not necessarily from the standpoint of could the U.S. do it or not do it alone. Clearly, we have the capability to escort ships alone without other nations. But I think it's important that we do it with other nations so that Iran sees that, right? And it really doesn't matter who started the operation. In the end, all the countries that you're hearing talked about benefit from traffic flowing through the strait.

And when this thing ends, however it ends, that's important, by the way, how it ends, it, in my opinion, would be a good thing if we had allies there with us to help in this process, especially the Gulf allies and then other allies who have -- who can really bring some need, not need it, but who can really bring some capability that's going to be helpful.

TAPPER: Israel said it is expanding their ground campaign further into Lebanon as they target Hezbollah which attacked Israel after this war began. Hezbollah, of course, is considered a terrorist group by the U.S. and is an Iran proxy. Between that and the Strait of Hormuz, how concerned are you that it's only going to get more difficult and more complicated for the U.S. to remove itself from this war?

DONEGAN: Yes, you really get into the question of how does it end, and I think how does it end determines how hard restarting the traffic through the Strait of Hormuz will be. If this end, for instance, in a ceasefire that's three-two by both parties, then perhaps you can have then a way to more quickly start traffic flowing through the strait. If it ends with the United States declaring that they've met their objectives, now, we're going to be a little bit beholding to what Iran's reaction is to that, right? Are they going to continue to do some of the things they're doing to our Gulf nation partners, to oil tankers that are sitting in different places in the strait? So, again, the complexity is going to be different, depending on how it ends.

But one thing is true. We're in a different place than we were before it started in terms of Iran's capabilities.

TAPPER: Oh, sure. A lot of its military has been taken out, not to mention so many members of its leadership.

[17:09:57]

Venture capitalist David Sacks, who is President Donald Trump's A.I. and crypto czar, recently said on a podcast that there could be potentially catastrophic consequence if the war in Iran continues. President Trump was asked about Sacks's comments earlier today. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: One of your advisors, David Sacks, said the other week that the U.S. should -- quote -- "declare a victory and get out of the Iran war." He also warned that if the conflict escalates, Israel may contemplate the use of a nuclear weapon. Has he shared that assessment with you?

TRUMP: Yes. Israel wouldn't do that. Israel would never do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What do you make of David Sacks's concern?

DONEGAN: Well, if talking about Israel using a nuclear weapon in a situation like this, I view that as very, very highly unlikely for a host of reasons. So, certainly, though, the longer this conflict drags out, the more and the greater the impact on the global economy. That part of it is absolutely true.

TAPPER: All right, retired Vice Admiral Kevin Donegan, thanks for your expertise and your time, sir. We're following breaking news tonight. Tens of millions of Americans are currently at risk for severe weather, including tornadoes. We're going to go live to the CNN Weather Center for the forecast next. Plus, an entire country without power right now. Cuba's electric grid just suffered a total collapse. We're going to go live to Havana where our team is reporting off of a generator. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Breaking news for us, for you, in our "National Lead." A massive storm system is threatening the entire East Coast today with more than 250 million Americans said to experience some type of hazardous weather. Strong tornadoes could be seen from South Carolina all the way up to Maryland. Dangerous wind gusts have been causing hundreds of reports of damage throughout the country since yesterday, burning homes, popping trees, knocking out power across multiple states.

Meteorologist Chris Warren is in the CNN Weather Center. Chris, where is some of the worst weather happening?

CHRIS WARREN, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Pretty much right in the mid-Atlantic and the southeast areas you were just talking about there, Jake, is where it is ongoing right now. This is all associated with a huge system that has weather alerts from the Great Lakes where there are blizzard warnings to what eventually behind this system, freeze warnings, extremely cold temperatures for the south.

It's this red here where there's going to be some strong winds associated with thunderstorms. Strong winds also in New England and throughout a lot of the Northeast. But this main threat with these severe thunderstorms include damaging winds, tornadoes, and a lot of lightning, which is inherent with thunderstorms.

Now, not as likely, but still possible, there could be a strong longer live tornado that's looking less likely each hour we go. Only a few hours left with this. The strong winds really going to be, I think, the main threat going forward with the storms that are ongoing right now and the final push of the cold front.

The yellow and the orange on the radar shows us the heavier rain and the stronger storms. The red on this map shows us where conditions are still somewhat favorable for the development of tornadoes. Now, this did stretch all the way down to Florida. So, this system is working offshore. We can see that right here.

A lot of lightning now off the Southeast Coast, still in the mid- Atlantic and through parts of Virginia and North Carolina, still in the stronger storms. But it's not going to be completely over until this line right here gets all the way through. So, seeing a pretty big punch right now, and then another punch, and some dramatically colder temperatures will be on the way.

East of Charlotte right now could still see winds up to about 60 miles an hour, some strong storms. No warnings right now in Central Florida, but some very heavy rain and still some frequent lightning behind this system. That cold air coming all the way down from Canada, helping to change precipitation over to snow in Tennessee, Alabama, in parts of Georgia. Short lived, but we did see it.

Well, we're also going to see what a lot of people are going to be talking about, already talking about in this colder air is that in a 24-hour period, temperatures in some areas dropping 20, 30, 40, almost 50 degrees in a matter of hours. So, with that, Jake, freeze alerts still in effect from Texas all the way over to the Carolinas. Daytime highs in Chicago. Tomorrow, staying below freezing.

TAPPER: All right, Chris Warren at the CNN Weather Center, thank you so much. Passengers were waiting at security lines for up to two hours earlier today as hundreds of TSA agents have quit, with others calling in sick because they're not getting paid during this yet another government shutdown. We'll talk to a TSA agent who also helps lead a union of more than 44,000 TSA officers. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: We're back with breaking news in our "World Lead." Cuba is currently in an island-wide power outage after the country's electrical grid suffered a total collapse earlier today. The country of about 11 million people relies heavily on oil to generate its electricity.

CNN's Patrick Oppmann is in Havana, Cuba for us using a generator so that he can talk with us. Patrick, on Friday, Cuba's president said no oil had been delivered to the island in the last three months. So, how long could this massive blackout last?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, that's really a question because in previous years when we've had blackouts like this that were due to the aging infrastructure here, they could last several days, it could last up to a week but, eventually, the power came on for a while. In recent days, we've been seeing blackouts of the last 16, 18, sometimes 20 hours. Now, we don't know when the power will go back on.

And that's really concerning because, of course, for Cubans who are not lucky enough like us to have generators or solar panels, that means the food will spoil in their fridges, they will not be able to work, they will not be able to go to school. Life was already slowing to a halt. And the concern is that this may be the time that everyone has been predicting, worrying about power simply will go out and not come back on.

As you mentioned, there has been an oil embargo on this island. And so, that means less public transportation, longer blackouts, also more protests. People have been taking to the streets, sometimes quite angrily, sometimes attacking government offices because despite what the government says, they don't blame the U.S. so much as their own government for this energy crisis. And with this latest blackout, island- wide, people's tempers, once they begin, will be becoming more short as this crisis goes on longer and longer.

TAPPER: All right, Patrick Oppmann in Cuba, thank you so much. Turning to our "National Lead" now. Today, a crisis for travelers in the United States. Hours long security line spotted at several airports from coast to coast, including Chicago, Atlanta, Austin, Texas. This is only expected to get worse. TSA agents are working without pay due to the partial government shutdown, and these TSA agents are either calling out or quitting.

[17:25:00]

Sixty-one thousand of them just went their full -- their first weekend without a full paycheck.

Let's bring in TSA agent Johnny Jones. He's also the secretary treasurer of the American Federation of Government Employees TSA Council 100, which represents more than 44,000 TSA officers. Johnny, thanks for joining us. The law, of course, requires federal employees to get back pay once the shutdown ends. But according to Airlines for America, TSA workers make an average salary of $35,000. So, I would think this situation for TSA officers who work paycheck to paycheck is pretty dire. What are you hearing from TSA workers?

JOHNNY JONES, TSA AGENT, SECRETARY TREASURER OF THE AMERICAN FEDERATION OF GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES TSA COUNCIL 100: Well, first of all, thanks for having me on the show today. And I would like to talk to you about the fact that they are -- they make such a low salary and they do live paycheck to paycheck. One of the things that people need to understand is that folks that are -- they're borrowing money, they're taking out loans, they're selling things. Most of the time, they're doing this at a loss. And there's no compensation, there's no recourse for that for the TSA officers.

They're also struggling. You know, they don't have money for daycare, childcare, gas, food, and many other things as they've almost went a full month without a full paycheck because the last paycheck they received was so small it was almost inconsequential.

TAPPER: So, the reason this is happening is because Democrats in the Senate refused to pass the Homeland Security funding bill until changes are made to Customs and Border Patrol and ICE actions. So, Republicans blame Democrats. Democrats have put forward legislation that would pay TSA agents, just not ICE or Customs and Border Patrol. How do TSA agents see this? Who do they blame?

JONES: They blame both parties because regardless of who's in charge or this time or that time, for the last five months, TSA officers have endured three shutdowns. The second one was kind of short. So, regardless of the party, they are blaming both sides because they are not negotiating, and they haven't even passed a continuing resolution so people can continue to negotiate without -- with the people being paid.

So, the workforce is sick and tired of being political pawns in the middle of these games. And unfortunately, we are the chess pieces, not just the TSA officers, but the other -- our colleagues and the Coast Guard and FEMA and other agencies that are not being paid and is struggling.

TAPPER: TSA, DSH -- sorry, the Department of Homeland Security says more than 300 TSA agents have quit so far. Are you expecting that number to rise if the shutdown continues for weeks, months more? If so, how -- by how much?

JONES: Well, I can tell you one thing. If people aren't going to get paid, one or two things is going to happen. They're either going to leave their post and quit or they're going to call out and say they're unable to come to work due to financial concerns. So, without a doubt, those numbers are going to skyrocket like a ship going into the outer space because, eventually, you don't have any funds, you don't have a place to live, and you don't have gas to put in your car.

TAPPER: Johnny Jones, thank you so much. Appreciate your time, sir.

JONES: Thank you for having us.

TAPPER: Today, President Trump's hand-picked board approved his plan to close the Kennedy Center for two years for renovations. My next guest is fighting to stop that. But is she running out of time? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's the Trump-Kennedy Center. Putting new marbles in, beautiful, beautiful marbles. When you do marbles, you can't have people walking over the marble every night.

What I know best in the world is construction. The best way to do it is close it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, the President's hand-picked Kennedy Center board today voted to close the Kennedy Center for two years in July to undergo renovations. The extent of the renovations is unclear, but the President promised both structural and internal changes. This comes as Trump is replacing former ambassador Richard Grenell as president of the Kennedy Center. Grenell will be replaced by Matt Floca, the center's current vice president of facilities and operations. That move comes after recent performance cancellations, declining ticket sales and more. One source telling CNN that the president thinks Grenell had fumbled when it came to his leadership of the Kennedy Center.

Late last year, the board voted to add the President's name to the center, prompting backlash from Democrats, including Ohio Congresswoman Joyce Beatty, who filed a lawsuit against the President in December, arguing that the board's decision to rename and renovate the facility is unlawful. And Congresswoman Beatty joins us now. Congresswoman, last week, a federal judge heard arguments over your request to block President Trump from closing the Kennedy Center for the renovations, as well as your request to attend today's meeting.

The judge ruled that you would be allowed to attend today's meeting, but did not guarantee that you could vote. According to a press release, the vote to close the center for two years was unanimous. But just correct me if I'm wrong. You were not able to vote. Is that correct? What happened after the cameras left the room?

REP. JOYCE BEATTY (D-OH): That is very true. They went through the protocol that they would take a vote. And then due to the weather, there would be limited dialogue about the vote. At that time, I did ask for a point of order to make sure that they were on record before we had the call for the vote that I would have something to say. And they were very gracious and said they were aware and I would have time to address the board, which I clearly did in stating my opposition to the closing and gave them a series of things.

[17:35:09]

The only reason we got this packet of information was because I filed a lawsuit in federal court. And Judge Cooper then sent a order out that not only did I have to get the materials, but all of the board members would need to receive it. And late on Sunday night, we received a document that I had at the board meeting. And I referenced that the only reason we received it was because of my legal team, which also gives me hope. The judge was very clear on a lot of things.

In May, the board did decide that ex officios would not have a vote, and we're still dealing with that. So there will be more to come legally about a decision on whether in future meetings, I can vote or not. But I was able to express that I'm not against any renovations making it safe, but I'm against any and everything that is unlawful.

They did not bring it before the United States Congress, just as when Donald Trump put his name across the Kennedy Center, he did not get approval from the Congress to do that. And it's stated in the statute that he had to bring it before Congress. So the judge sided with me on all of the other points.

And that is why it was imperative for me to go to set an example, because it's more than the Kennedy Center, Jake is also if you wake up in the middle of the night, whether going to war is right or not, you don't bring it before the Congress. If you want to shut down the U.S. Department of Education or mess with our health care, we cannot be afraid to go in and challenge anyone that is not going by the rule of law.

TAPPER: What you're --

BEATTY: This is a democracy.

TAPPER: What you're doing is different from what another ex officio member of the board, Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island, did he skip today's meeting. He said in a news release that his presence at the sham -- at this sham, he said, would serve no purpose. You obviously feel differently.

BEATTY: I feel very differently. I think I would have rather him had the courage to join me and stand up for the constituents and the hundreds of people who are calling saying thank you for the fight, because if you don't fight, it's easy to write a press release and say what I'm not doing. I think it's more important to say that we're going and fighting. I was disappointed in his statement.

And hopefully I'll say to my friend and colleague, maybe I misunderstood it. Anybody knows Joyce Beatty knows I'd never go as a prop with a voice to the federal court. And we won in court. And there's still more to come. My legal team is very hopeful and positive. We have months, it's not scheduled to close until July the 6th.

Here's another thing, Jake, it allowed me to go on record to all of those individuals there. As President Trump said, some of the wealthiest men in the country were allowed, not as board members, but as spouses to the women on the board to attend this meeting. And I looked at each one of them and said, there's no way you would be doing a renovation to your company or your home and getting a document and cost just hours before voting and giving them to go ahead.

I also was able to make a point about the number of donors and people who are contributing and the artists that they walked away from it in their own words, because Donald Trump's name was placed on the Kennedy Center, which is our only living memorial.

TAPPER: Yes. BEATTY: So it was more than just being in the room. I consider this a victory. There were many board members who came up to me as we were leaving and saying thank you. Now while I was the only one to voice opposition to the closing, I was not the only person to express concerns. Someone asked about asbestos and other things that she did not see and had questions about it.

TAPPER: Yes.

BEATTY: And so I'm pleased that people understood that I had a right to be there. And I had a right to exercise my voice, just as others did. We had one other member that's an ex officio. And of course, the speaker was there.

TAPPER: Right.

BEATTY: So I think I represented well.

TAPPER: All right, Congressman Joyce Beatty of Ohio. Thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

BEATTY: Thank you.

[17:39:59]

TAPPER: Some Democrats say it's time for a new generation of leaders. Others say not so fast. Eighty-five-year-old Congressman Jim Clyburn just announced his plans to run for reelection. He's going to join us next to explain why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, cue the CNN election music please. Sweet. We're getting in the thick of the midterm primaries but dozens of lawmakers are also heading for the exits, 36 Republicans are retiring running for higher office or were not re-nominated, 21 Democrats will be leaving Congress at the end of this current term.

[17:44:58]

One veteran Democratic congressman who wants to stay is Congressman Jim Clyburn from South Carolina. He's 85 years old running for his 18th term in the House and he joins us now. Congressman thanks so much for coming on. We love having you. As you know your announcement of your re-election comes at a time when a lot of politicians are debating publicly. When is the right time for politicians to step down and encourage the next generation to run for office? Just a few days ago you were talking about your daughter as a potential candidate for the seat. So what led you to this decision to run for re-election?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well thank you very much for having me. The decision came from my congressional district. I decided several months ago to give serious consideration to retirement. I sat down with my family during the Christmas holidays. And we all decided on a process to go through in order to make that determination. One of which was to do an extensive poll of the district and gather the sentiments of the voters which we did.

And the conclusion was that if my health was OK which it is that I should offer for re-election. It's just that simple. Nothing complicated about it. And then I talked to a lot of my colleagues in the Congress and everybody seemed to be pointing into the right direction -- the same direction.

TAPPER: Well we're glad your health is well and certainly lots of people age in very different ways. There has been some criticism as you know "The Detroit News" ran an op-ed with the headline, "Elderly lawmakers like James Clyburn should know when to bow out gracefully." It went on to focus on the importance of bringing in a younger generation who's more tech savvy to run for office. And they say, "We need a new leadership that can speak to the increase in innovation and how it can be used to fight inequality. That kind of leadership won't come from Clyburn or his ilk." What do you what do you say to criticisms like that.

CLYBURN: Well, I've been following "The Detroit News" all of my life. I would say to whoever wrote the article for "The Detroit News" come on down to South Carolina and talk to my constituents.

TAPPER: This coming legislative session will mark your very first without former Speaker Nancy Pelosi and former majority leader Steny Hoyer as colleagues. Both are set to not only step down from leadership as they did a few years ago along with you. They're set to retire from Congress. Did they talk to you at all when you were debating whether or not to run for re-election?

CLYBURN: No, they didn't talk to me about my decision. No, they didn't talk to me about their decisions. We all make decisions based upon our own experiences, I would suspect. And, you know, and I would like for people to spend a little time talking about why it was that I was 52 years old before I ever got elected. That wasn't the first time I was qualified to be elected. That was the first time the laws of my state and this country allowed for someone who looked like me to get elected.

And so yes at the age of 52 a lot of people will be retired from Congress. But that was not the case for me or others. And not in five years between me. I'm the ninth African-American to serve in Congress in South Carolina. There's not a five years between me and number eight. Why?

And I think that what's going on today in Washington is a little bit of exactly why it was not a five years between the two of the same act for instance. It's nothing but a throwback to those laws that were passed after reconstruction that made it impossible for African- Americans to get elected. And if the same act becomes law, it will reduce dramatically the number of African-Americans that's currently serving in the Congress.

And I think that what we need to do is spend our time working on saving this democracy that some people seem to want to throw into the ditch. TAPPER: Well explain what you mean by that sir. Because I think a lot of Republicans would argue that voter I.D. is supported not only by a majority of Americans but by a majority of Democrats. How is the SAVE Act different from just a common sense voter I.D. law?

CLYBURN: Because the SAVE Act is not common sense voter I.D. Tell me how is it common sense for a voter to be able to use his license but not able to use a student activity card. Both of them got your photograph on it. So this is not about voter I.D. This is about suppressing the vote as one Republican says we want to make sure that the right people vote. Who are the right people and who are the wrong people to vote.

[17:50:18]

TAPPER: Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina thanks for joining us today sir.

CLYBURN: Thank you very much for having me.

TAPPER: Let's discuss, Jonah. Congressman Clyburn would be 88 years old by the end of his next term if he wins reelection. I have to say having interviewed him today and he seems, you know, to be as sharp as he's ever been. But do you think that this reinforces the idea that, you know, Congress is a gerontocracy.

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it reinforces it because he's an old guy but he's also sharp. It's also one can say in general we should probably stop electing presidents of a certain age just as a rule. And that may be I think the Senate really should have age limits because six years is a really long time. The damage can be done in two years. You would have -- Clyburn would have to decline rapidly and all that. And voters can make those decisions. But I just generally both parties have a problem with old dudes and old ladies defining the party too much.

TAPPER: So, Kate, President Trump turns 80 in June. A recent poll showed 61 percent of the American people, 61 percent, think Trump is becoming more unstable with age. That includes 30 percent of Republicans think that what as somebody who worked for Joe Biden what's your take on that and how, if at all, would -- should Democrats use that.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it's very clear the American people are becoming increasingly concerned about his age and I think they have reason to ask those questions. We see almost every day you see him forgetting names. You see the he was confusing Karoline Leavitt and Kellyanne Conway the other day. You see him, you know, unable to come up with dates, unable.

So, yes, I mean I think there are perfectly valid reasons. We all saw this happen with President Biden and these same questions need to be asked about President Trump. The thing I would say is that I think is probably most concerning for Republicans looking at these numbers. If you go back and look at the numbers the number of Americans who were expressing concern about Joe Biden's age at this point in his term, those numbers are pretty comparable.

And so I think it is clearly the case that this is becoming a concern more significantly at the front of mind for Americans across the country. And I think it's absolutely fair for Democrats to raise those questions and I don't think that they should shy away from it.

TAPPER: Jonah, I want to play something. President Trump said several times today about a conversation that he claims he had with a former U.S. president about Iran. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I spoke to one of the former presidents and I actually like, actually speak to some I do like some people be shocking. And he said I wish I did what you did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So that was the second time today that Trump made that claim a reporter in the room then followed up with the President shortly thereafter. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said twice today that you talked to another former president about the Iran strikes.

TRUMP: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it George W. Bush?

TRUMP: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it Bill Clinton?

TRUMP: I don't want to say. That person said I wish I did it. OK. But I don't want to get into.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

TRUMP: I don't want to get him into trouble. Maybe. Hey, you know what. I think you probably know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So CNN reached out to the four living presidents. I personally reached out to Clinton spokesman who said or a Clinton person who said on background. No, they haven't spoken. Clinton did not say that. The other two are Obama and Biden. No love lost among them. Put on your detective hat inspector. So what do you think is going on here? Who is the former president that said this to Donald Trump.

GOLDBERG: I know Kate has a theory. I don't want to steal it from her. But I just think that one needs to have a healthy skepticism of any statement by this President about people he claims to have talked to. There are an enormous number of stories of big strong girly men with tears in their eyes talking about how fantastic he is.

TAPPER: Sir.

GOLDBERG: Sir. Always the sir. He also explained why he had to raise tariffs on Switzerland recently because the prime minister of Switzerland was rude to him. And Switzerland doesn't have a prime minister. And this --

TAPPER: That doesn't mean that they weren't rude to him.

GOLDBERG: It does. It's true. But it's somebody else not the prime minister. And I when I Google around trying to figure out what I was supposed to say about this because I didn't know about the interview today. There's an enormous number of stories he claimed to have talked to the president of Puerto Rico once and they don't have a president.

BEDINGFIELD: Yes.

TAPPER: I thought they were part of the United States.

GOLDBERG: There you go.

TAPPER: What's your theory?

BEDINGFIELD: OK not for nothing. Donald Trump also a former president. I think it is totally reasonable to question whether Donald Trump was looking in the mirror having a discussion with Donald Trump in the bathroom this morning.

[17:55:05]

TAPPER: And in that mirror --

BEDINGFIELD: That's the former president.

TAPPER: -- Donald Trump in the mirror said, I wish I had done that in my first term.

BEDINGFIELD: I would say, I would say this goes back to the conversation about age. But the truth is Donald Trump tells a hundred lie. I mean to Jonah's point tells a hundred lies a day. He's not somebody who's, you know, has particular fidelity to the facts.

TAPPER: So my only question --

BEDINGFIELD: So I think it is totally reasonable that --

GOLDBERG: He used to make believe that he was some guy named John Barron and --

BEDINGFIELD: Yes.

TAPPER: His own spokesman.

GOLDBERG: -- about himself.

BEDINGFIELD: Yes.

TAPPER: My question for you is a serious question. OK. Very serious. When Donald Trump talks to Donald Trump according to your theory, does the Donald Trump from the first term call the current Donald Trump, sir?

BEDINGFIELD: Absolutely. Are you kidding me?

TAPPER: All right. Jonah and Kate, thanks so much.

A federal judge has just blocked some of the most sweeping changes made by HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. including some decisions he made about childhood vaccines. Why did they do that? Why did the judge do that? Stick with us. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:05]

TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.