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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Sources Say, Pentagon Considering Ground Troops to Take Iran's Kharg Island; New Purported Message from Iran's Supreme Leader Says Attacks on Oman, Turkey were False Flags; Nearly 10 Percent of TSA Workers Called Out of Work on Thursday; Poll: 58 Percent Disapprove Of Trump's Handling Of Immigration; Action Movie & TV Star Chuck Norris Dies At 86. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired March 20, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[18:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, what officials are warning about airport security wait times this weekend as TSA workers go another day without pay and call out of work in near record numbers. Is Congress even talking about ending this partial government shutdown? Is there any effort going on at all? In the last hour, we heard from the transportation secretary. Coming up, I'm going to ask a House Democrat.

Plus, federal judges warn of more violent threats against them. Several even spoke up to share threats they personally received. I'm going to speak with U.S. District Court Judge Esther Salas, whose son was killed in a targeted attack on her. We're going to talk to her about the growing threat.

But, first, the main story, the war in Iran. President Trump says he is not looking for a ceasefire as the Pentagon and White House officials are currently weighing putting troops on the ground, according to CNN sources. Where would those troops go?

The Lead tonight, sources tell CNN that the Pentagon is considering sending U.S. troops to take Kharg Island off the coast of Iran. Kharg Island is an economic lifeline for Iran. It handles roughly 90 percent of the country's crude exports. This as thousands more U.S. Marines and sailors are deploying to the Middle East as the war with Iran nears its fourth week. A short time ago, President Trump told reporters that he believes the U.S. won the war with Iran, but he added he does not want a ceasefire.

His comments coming just hours after he lashed out against NATO allies, calling them cowards for not helping the U.S. secure the vital Strait of Hormuz. The strait's closure has, of course, caused oil prices to stay in the triple digits per barrel. Goldman Sachs now suggests higher prices could last all the way through 2027.

Meanwhile, a fresh wave of Iranian strikes in Jerusalem and against U.S. Gulf allies, as many Muslims in the region were celebrating Eid, marking the end of the holy month of Ramadan.

CNN's Nic Robertson is in Saudi Arabia for us with all the latest. Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, Jake. I got to say, we woke up this morning. The city here looked pretty serene, holiday Eid, very few vehicles on the road. Go to the cafes and restaurants here over lunchtime, there were families there, grandparents, parents, children all dressed up, handing each other bags of gifts, traditional at Eid time.

But the darker side of what's happening, been happening in the Gulf, was still playing out, Iranian missiles still coming in. And Saudi, by the end of play the day, more than 30 drones fired, mostly into the east towards the oil facilities there. In Kuwait to the north, 25 drones fired there, 15 intercepted, 8 landed in open area. But the two that got through, they hit an oil refinery and took part of that big oil refinery offline. Bahrain, earlier in the morning, got ballistic missiles, got drones, most intercepted, but something got through, set fire to a warehouse.

And just to give you a sense of how on edge everyone here is even -- as even when it's Eid and people are celebrating, when the government in Bahrain wanted to do what it normally does at Eid, which was fire, celebrated with shots in the air, they made sure they told everyone well in advance, so no one thought that the country was coming under attack at that moment.

Of course, they're all too familiar with being under attack, as they were again in Abu Dhabi today. I think there are four ballistic missiles, 26 drones incoming, some hitting in the middle of residential areas, or targeted in the middle of residential areas.

So, it's been, for some, a day to try to relax and enjoy what's supposed to be a peaceful day, but the reality is that the Straits of Hormuz remain closed. The oil facilities continue to be targeted, some of them taken offline, and no end in sight. And the recognition here that this could go on now a long time.

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Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Nic Robertson in Saudi Arabia, stay safe. Thank you.

Let's bring in Axios Global Affairs Correspondent Barak Ravid, who is also a contributor to CNN. Barak, what are your sources telling you when it comes to potentially sending U.S. troops to take Kharg Island?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: well, what I hear from both U.S. officials, Israeli officials, people who are dealing with this issue outside of the Trump administration, this is definitely a key issue that is being discussed by the administration, by the Pentagon, by the White House as an option for ground operation. You see the U.S. military sending more and more troops to the region. There are, I think, three different Marine Expeditionary Units on the way to the region. You're going to have, I think, within two weeks, maybe something, or like 7,000 Marines in the region. You have 50,000, U.S. soldiers in the region already.

And I think what the Trump administration wants to do is twofold. First, take this island because then you take control of Iranian oil. The Iranians cannot export without this island. And, second, try and use it as leverage in future negotiation with Iran over the Strait of Hormuz and over, let's say, rules of engagement for the future between Iran and the region and Iran and the world.

TAPPER: So, you had a very compelling story this morning in Axios that you co-wrote with Mark Caputo. And in it, a senior Trump administration official told you, quote, we've always had boots on the ground in conflicts under every president, including Trump. I know this is a fixation in the media, and I get the politics, but the president is going to do what's right, unquote. The senior official added that no decision had been made yet.

I don't that this is a fixation of the media. I would say it's more a concern and a red line or significant inflection point for the public and also for members of Congress. We've had on several Republicans who say if there are going to be boots on the ground, they need to come to Congress and get an authorization.

Are those concerns a factor at all for the administration?

RAVID: Well, first, I have several other people who had concerns about putting boots on -- U.S. boots on the ground in the Middle East. One of them is called Donald Trump. Second one is called J.D. Vance.

TAPPER: Right.

RAVID: They're currently the president and vice president of the United States.

This is why the fact that Trump reached this point that he considers doing that shows you the quagmire he's in. On the one hand, he cannot end this war without opening the Strait of Hormuz. On the other hand, opening the Strait of Hormuz by force means sending U.S. troops to Iran, which is a huge escalation, a huge risk, and goes against everything Donald Trump and J.D. Vance believe.

This is why I think this is a huge dilemma for the president. I don't think he made the decision. I think the president looks at the option of Kharg Island as, let's say, sort of like a minimal boots on the ground option, but it is still very, very risky.

TAPPER: Well, this is the conundrum of going to war. It's not necessarily the first decision whether or not to attack. It's the second, then the third, then the fourth, and it keeps going and it ends up -- it's all a bunch of bad decisions, all a bunch of horrible options. Sources tell CNN that the Pentagon is also considering to potentially attempt to extract, or to retrieve, or to further bury all that highly enriched uranium that the U.S. Intelligence Committee believes is under the facilities that the U.S. bombed last June. What are you hearing about that internal debate?

RAVID: So, you know, the Trump administration and the Israelis have been discussing for weeks the possibility of conducting some sort of ground operation, commando operation with Special Forces, to try and get this highly rich uranium out, but it's not that simple. This is something that means taking over big parts of Iranian territory and staying there for two, three, maybe four weeks, to conduct this operation.

It is very risky, not because it's in hostile -- only because it's in hostile territory, but because this is, you know, nuclear material you're talking about here. So, trying to conduct more airstrikes to bury this material even deeper is definitely a safer alternative, but leaving Iran, ending this war with this material still inside the country, this will mean that a key objective of this war for both U.S. and Israel has not been achieved.

TAPPER: All right. Barak Ravid, thank you so much, always great to have you on with your excellent reporting.

Later tonight, look for a special CNN Town Hall, The War with Iran, with experts taking questions from a live studio audience. CNN's Dana Bash will moderate that discussion. This is tonight at 9:00 P.M. Eastern live on CNN and on the CNN app.

Just into our Law & Justice Lead, a federal judge has just voided some parts of a restrictive press policy rolled out by Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth last year. U.S. District Judge Paul Friedman says the policy from Hegseth tramples on the constitutional rights of reporters who try to cover the U.S. military from within the Pentagon. The judge writes, quote, that principle has preserved the nation's security for almost 250 years, it must not be abandoned now, unquote.

It's a huge blow to Hegseth's effort to try to control press coverage and how the war is covered. CNN has reached out to the Pentagon for comment.

Since being appointed, Iran's new supreme leader has yet to give a statement on camera or an audio statement. Today, we did get a second written message purportedly from him. What that message says about the recent strikes in this ongoing war, that's next.

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TAPPER: In our World Lead, a new statement attributed to Iran's Supreme Leader Mojtaba Khamenei called recent attacks on Oman and Turkey, false flags aimed at creating division between Iran and its neighbors. The statement, which did not include either video or audio proving that it was actually him, well, it further fuels doubts about the supreme leader's abilities or the question of whether or not he's alive.

Joining us to discuss, actress and activist Nazanin Boniadi, who is born in Tehran, raised in London. And if she looks familiar, it's because she's been in a million amazing, works of entertainment, movies and T.V. shows. So I want to start, Naz, by saying, noting that it's Nowruz today, the Persian New Year, what would normally be a time of celebration in Iran, even under the horrific regime. But now there's a war people probably are even afraid to go outside their homes, what are you hearing from loved ones and friends in Iran?

NAZANIN BONIADI, BRITISH-IRANIAN ACTRESS AND ACTIVIST: Well, the thing about Nowruz, Jake, is that it's, it's lasted more than 3,000 years and it's overcome every invasion, every occupation that Iran or Persia has experienced from Alexander the Great to the Arab conquest, to the Mongolian conquest, and for the past 47 years, a regime that has really tried to eliminate Iranian culture and identity and replace it with Islamism has failed. And Nowruz has remained in the hearts and minds of people, and they've consistently celebrated it.

And even now, it's the word Nowruz means new day. It's, of course, the start of spring equinox, and it marks renewal and rebirth and resilience, because it's lasted more than 3,000 years. So, it's a meaningful day today, and I think a lot of people inside Iran are feeling -- holding onto the hope of what that new day might look like.

TAPPER: And it's got to be tough because just yesterday, the regime, executed three men, including a 19-year-old, for participating in the protests in January. A human rights group said the trial was just a sham. It was a ridiculous. Are activists in Iran scared to speak out right now because of what the regime is doing, if you speak out, you, you might actually just get killed?

BONIADI: Yes. I mean, there's a reason why the internet has been blocked for more than 400 -- what is it, 400 hours or whatever. It's a very long time since. It definitely goes back to the mass protests in January. And the internet blackout is designed to cloak the mass atrocities that have happened. Of course, thousands of deaths, deaths, killings, 7,000 documents, 6,500 documented, up to upward of 30,000, by credible reports.

And that's why they do it. They silence people because they know that if the voices of the people reach us, what that shows is that they don't want this regime and they are more afraid of their own regime than the bombs falling on their head. Somebody reached out to me five days ago, we have sporadic connections by satellite, of course, because there's an internet shut down. And she said, this is a prominent dissident who told me that to even now, with the bombs falling over our heads, my children are afraid of the bombs. I'm afraid for their future if this regime survives.

TAPPER: Yes. And I wonder in February 28th when the bombs started dropping from the U.S. and Israel, there was such hope among the Iranian people, both in the country and especially from the diaspora, people like you and others. And I wonder if that hope still exists because it seems like the regime is still -- it's showing no signs of going away, and it does seem as though Israel wants regime change, but the U.S., that doesn't seem to be a goal anymore.

BONIADI: I mean, to me, it looks like the only people who want democracy are the people of Iran. I mean, who have a clear -- what I was told from this dissident who contacted me five days ago is, I don't think President Trump quite understands that we've tried the reform route. So, if he's looking at a Venezuela model, we've already tried that from 1997 to 2019. We tried reform. We tried finding the guy in the regime who might be able to have good relations with the outside world and maybe stabilize the country, ease repression. It just cannot happen under this system.

So, what they're telling me is bombing -- you can't just bomb these guys out of power. You have to have a holistic political approach that increases the cost of repression on the Iranian people.

[18:20:00]

That's what needs to happen, is whatever plan is in place right now needs to ensure that the democracy and the will of the Iranian people prevails.

TAPPER: Nazanin Boniadi, thank you so much. It's always such a pleasure to have you here.

BONIADI: Thank you.

TAPPER: I really appreciate it. Hoping for better days for the Iranian people.

Last hour here on The Lead, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy warned that the U.S. airport situation is about to get a whole lot worse. So, is there any pressure in Congress to end this partial government shutdown that is causing this problem with TSA workers calling out sick because they're not getting paid? We're going to talk to a Democrat, next.

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TAPPER: In our National Lead, as the TSA lines at airports keep growing and growing, let's look at the reality of what TSA agents are dealing with.

TSA agents have already missed their first full paycheck due to this partial government shutdown and could miss a second one if Congress doesn't figure out how to do their jobs by next Friday and fund the agency.

[18:25:01]

On average, TSA agents make about $46,000 to $55,000 per year, which, in many cases, means there is really not much disposable income there to float them through any sort of hardship. Officials say at least 366 TSA agents have left their jobs all together. And let's remember, this is the third time in the past six months, the third time that TSA agents have had to go without pay. One young TSA agent in Atlanta told CNN he's had to ask for both his rent and car payments to be pushed back.

Let's discuss this with Democratic Congressman James Walkinshaw of Virginia. Congressman, you and your colleagues are still getting paid on salaries that are roughly four times as much as the average TSA agent's salary. What's your message to the TSA agents, you probably have a bunch of them in your district, who may not really care about the politics behind the shutdown, they just simply want to be able to put food on the table?

REP. JAMES WALKINSHAW (D-VA): That's right. Look, it is absolutely outrageous that our TSA agents and our FEMA workers and our cybersecurity workers are not getting paid right now, and that's why I and other Democrats have put forward legislation to fund all of those DHS agencies except for ICE and CBP so we can continue those negotiations.

Look, Donald Trump's immigration agenda, the mass deportation agenda is out of control. The American people want it to be reined in. We need to make that happen, but we shouldn't be holding our TSA agents hostage while those negotiations continue. We should vote tomorrow to pay them. And Democrats have put forward that legislation so far in both the House and Senate. Republicans continue to block it.

TAPPER: Right, because they say they want to fund the entire Department of Homeland Security budget, and they also note that ICE is -- you know, ICE is funded through 2029 because of the big, beautiful bill, the so-called big, beautiful bill from last year, that you're not actually -- you and other Democrats, you're not actually stopping ICE from doing what it does because they're funded well through the next few years.

WALKINSHAW: Yes. Look, that's exactly my argument. Why does ICE need another $20, $30 billion on top of the money that they got from the so-called big beautiful bill that came out of American's healthcare? What we need to do is put some reasonable restrictions on ice so we can end the masking, require judicial warrant before they can smash down the doors of American citizens. That's all we're asking for. And why we negotiate around that and hopefully achieve that.

We should be paying our TSA Agents, our Coast Guard folks, our FEMA workers and all of that, and we put forward that legislation. Republicans keep blocking it. I don't know why they're blocking it, but they continue to block it.

TAPPER: Last hour, I asked Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy about what he thinks will happen if TSA agents miss their next payday, he said smaller airports might be forced to shut down. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Second paycheck is due a week from today, as they're going to miss that. If they do, if a deal isn't cut, you're going to see -- what's happening today look like child's play. These are going to be good days compared to what's going to happen a week from now as America tries to travel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, as you note, Republicans are not on board with the Democrats' proposal to fund TSA separately from the rest of the Department of Homeland Security. So, if both sides just refuse to blink, this is going to get worse and worse and worse, not only for TSA agents, for local economies, smaller airports will shut down. We had a senator on the show the other day, a Republican senator, I think Joni Ernst, who said that Katie Britt, the Republican senator from Alabama, who often tries to work through a lot of these issues with negotiations, the Democrats aren't even meeting with her.

WALKINSHAW: Well, my understanding is the White House put forward an offer. Democratic leaders have rejected that. The White House is considering sending over another offer. But, look, you know, I listened there to Secretary Duffy and what he's facing, what President Trump is facing the next couple weeks as we head into the spring break travel season, Americans are going to be staring down the face of $4 a gallon gas prices because of Donald Trump's war in Iran, and four-hour waits at TSA lines because of Donald Trump and the Republican shutdown.

I think the president is going to start to feel a lot of pressure as we head into that spring break travel season. I hope that will help breakthrough, create a breakthrough for a deal.

TAPPER: You have so many federal workers in your district you represent. For people who don't know, you represent Northern Virginia, a lot of Northern Virginia.

WALKINSHAW: Yes.

TAPPER: Do they -- when you see them, when you meet them, these federal workers who, you know, every few months now because of these shutdowns, have to like, go into food banks, have to sleep at work because they can't afford gas, do they say keep fighting for changes on the immigration stuff?

[18:30:01]

I mean, what do they say to you?

WALKINSHAW: What federal workers say to me, and this is DHS, and across the board, is, look, they have faced down 15 months of attacks and assaults from the Trump administration, thousands of firings, retirement benefits not coming through when they're supposed to come through, verbally assaulted by the OMB director and the president himself. So, they have endured a lot of abuse on top of the shutdown.

So, they are frustrated and fed up, no question, but they understand that at the end of the day, Donald Trump and Republicans have been shutting down DHS and other agencies for 15 months. This shutdown makes it worse and we need to bring it to an end, but it's been 15 months of frustration and abuse that they've endured on top of the shutdowns,

TAPPER: Democratic Congressman James Walkinshaw from the great Commonwealth of Virginia, thank you, sir. Good to see you.

WALKINSHAW: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: A federal judge says she was once told that she would lose her life by lunchtime, and she's not the only judge who has faced this kind of threat. Why judges felt the need to share these alarming messages, that's next.

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TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, federal judges are warning of a dangerous increase in violent rhetoric against them. The warnings come as President Trump and many of his allies continue to harshly criticize Supreme Court justices and judges for rulings against the administration.

As CNN's Paula Reid reports for us now, judges are taking more and more precautions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JUDGE MARK NORRIS, U.S. DISTRICT COURT: We apply the law. We aren't making political decisions.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Judges speaking candidly about the reality they face in the current political climate.

JUDGE MICHELLE WILLIAMS COURT, U.S. DISTRICT COURT: The person said, I know where you live and I know where your children go to school.

REID: In a recent online forum, several shared some of the shocking threats they've faced.

JUDGE ANA REYES, U.S. DISTRICT COURT: I hope you lose your life by lunchtime, you worthless whore. The best way you could help America is to eat a bullet.

REID: When the Supreme Court ruled against some of President Trump's tariffs last month, he immediately attacked the justices, including two he appointed.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: They're very unpatriotic and disloyal to our Constitution.

I think it's an embarrassment to their families, if you want to know the truth, the two of them.

REID: Over the past ten years, Trump has repeatedly attacked the bench.

TRUMP: This judge is giving us unfair rulings. Now, I say why.

I have a Trump-hating judge with a Trump-hating wife and family. We cannot allow a handful of communist, radical left judges to obstruct the enforcement of our laws.

It's absolutely out of control.

REID: His inflammatory statements have been followed by a surge of threats against judges appointed by both political parties. The U.S. Marshals report a record 564 threats against federal judges last year. That number has roughly doubled since 2021. The situation has become so dire that Chief Justice John Roberts has weighed in twice in Trump's second term, most recently just this week,

CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS, U.S. SUPREME COURT: Judges around the country work very hard to get it right. And if they don't, their opinions are subject to criticism. But personally directed hostility is dangerous and it's got to stop.

REID: Judges are increasingly taking precautions. In his year-end report, the administrator for the federal courts wrote that about 80 percent of all sitting federal judges have requested the removal of personally identifiable information from the internet. About three quarters of judges have enrolled in a program that provides up-to-date home intrusion detection systems. Nationally, 63 facilities are undergoing courthouse hardening projects. But the risk is now something that comes with the robe.

NORRIS: Unfortunately, it's sort of become the order of the day.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID (on camera): Until recently, judges were barred from speaking out about their concerns by the judicial code of ethics, but just last month, they actually changed the rules to give judges more leeway to discuss their concerns about threats and attacks. Of course, Jake, that's important because this is not just about protecting judges, but also they say about protecting the integrity of the rule of law.

TAPPER: All right. Paula Reid, thanks so much for that report.

Let's talk about this with U.S. District Court Judge Esther Salas. You might recall, Judge Salas was targeted at her family home in 2020 when a gunman came to her home, opened fire, killed her son, Daniel, and wounded her husband, Mark. And I see that beautiful picture of Daniel behind you, Judge Salas, and I know he's an inspiration to you to keep up the fight to preserve law and order in this country. We are thinking about him and we're thinking about your loss right now.

Do you think that law enforcement is taking the threats against judges seriously enough, specifically as law enforcement?

JUDGE ESTHER SALAS, U.S. DISTRICT COURT: You know, I do think that the men and women who serve the U.S Marshals are doing everything they can to protect judges. It's their number one priority. So, I do think the U.S. Marshals are very concerned about these threats. And, you know, I would like to believe that the Department of Justice is as well taking it seriously. I haven't seen the attorney general or the deputy attorney general come forward and really talk about denouncing these acts of threats against judges, but I know the men and women of the U.S. Marshals, and I have no doubt there.

TAPPER: It's probably impossible, generally speaking, to draw a direct line from politicians attacking judges or Supreme Court justices with their words, saying they're unpatriotic, they should be embarrassed, they're un-American, et cetera, et cetera, and the threats that judges get. And, in fact, there's even a term for it, stochastic terrorism, right? But like do you agree with the idea that a lot of your fellow judges have said that the more that there is rhetoric from political leaders and media figures against judges and justices, the more the threats happen?

[18:40:06]

SALAS: Wholeheartedly. I wholeheartedly agree that the inflammatory and dangerous rhetoric is exacerbating these threats, and we're getting those threats from the top down. And to see our chief justice just this week really talk about the dangerous rhetoric and say it has to stop, I thank him. I thank our chief justice for coming forward and really, you know, asking everyone involved to stop this dangerous rhetoric. I thank him. I thank the four judges that were on to speak up for justice and who had the courage to speak up and speak out against these attacks. I thank them.

And, of course, I thank you because we have to continue to shed light, not heap, on the situation and really demand more of ourselves and of our leaders when we're talking about being civil to one another. And when we're talking about, you know, criticizing opinions on the merits and not taking these personal shots at us that I think are directly, in some respects, to blame for this spike in attacks against judges. We saw Judge Meyer in Indiana shot recently. I mean, this is serious stuff and someone -- I really do fear the worst here, Mr. Tapper.

TAPPER: You can call me Jake. Judge Esther Salas, thank you so much and may Daniel's memory continue to be a blessing. We'll have you on again soon, and I think about Daniel all the time. Thank you so much for being here.

SALAS: Thank you and have a good night.

TAPPER: President Trump has called Republican Congressman Thomas Massie a disaster for the Republican Party. Now, the congressman has a few choice words of his own about the candidate that Trump endorsed to get Massie out of office.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:45:46]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've got to have the largest mass deportation effort in history.

And we're going to have the largest deportation in the history of our country.

We are going to start the largest mass deportation in the history of our country, because we have no choice

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In our politics, that was President Trump before the 2024 presidential election. But the way he sells his immigration policies could sound different ahead of the 2026 midterms.

"The Wall Street Journal" is now reporting, quote, "Trump has become convinced that some of his administrations deportation policies have gone too far. And voters don't like the term mass deportation. The president has told them he wants to see more attention on arresting bad guys and less chaos in American cities, according to people familiar with the matter." That's according to "The Wall Street Journal".

Let's talk about this.

So, Ramesh, if that's accurate and if he commits to it. I mean, he's not wrong.

A Washington Post/ABC News/Ipsos poll last month showed only 40 percent of the public approves of President Trump's handling of immigration, 58 percent disapprove. That is a change for public approval on him or disapproval. Trump obviously fired Kristi Noem as DHS secretary.

Do you think that were going to see a change not only in how he talks about this, but how ICE and CBP actually go about their jobs?

RAMESH PONNURU, COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: It's an open question. I think it's clear that after months of polling, the public has reacted very negatively to the way the administration has carried out its immigration policies. And there does need to be a change in those policies.

But whether that is shared throughout the administration or you're still going to have infighting with the maximally hawkish -- hawkish members of the administration insisting on confrontational approach. I don't know if we're going to see them change.

TAPPER: I guess the question is how much is Stephen Miller still going to be running the show, right? That's one of the president's top advisors, if not, the top advisor on domestic policies. And he loves the mass deportation.

XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. That's right. He does love mass deportation and has Trump gone? Said told Stephen Miller to stop mass deportations. Doesn't seem like it. We can -- we still continue to see them. Has he directed ice to stop mass deportations? No.

There is a DACA recipient that was just detained on his way to go visit his daughter in the NICU. Just earlier this week.

We also have them going after legal immigration. People who have legal status, who follow the rules, who went about the process with the federal government, and the federal government didn't uphold their end of the bargain and outstripping their legal status.

TAPPER: A lot of Afghan allies.

HINOJOSA: A lot of Afghan allies, or Ukrainians or Venezuelans. And so that's hundreds of thousands of people. And so, if he was really worried about that and he wanted the change, he would rescind those EOs. And there's birthright citizenship that's going to be actually up in the Supreme Court on April 1st. He could rescind that EO if he wanted to kind of stop this sort of mass deportation and go after violent criminals and not people like innocent families.

TAPPER: Yeah. I mean, I think nobody disagrees with the idea, like about the bad hombres, as he called them once. Go ahead, do that. That's not --

HINOJOSA: And I think Democrats would praise him for securing the border and going after the bad guys. It's all the other stuff he doesn't want to take a victory lap.

PONNURU: Do you want to deport the worst or deport the most?

HINOJOSA: Yeah. That's been the tension in the administration from the beginning.

TAPPER: Yeah. Excellent way to put it.

Let's turn to the fact that President Trump has endorsed a primary challenger to Republican Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky, because he feels Massie has been disloyal.

Massie's out with a brand new ad about his opponent. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AD NARRATOR: Woke Eddie left the Republican Party right after President Trump won the Republican nomination. Just check his voter registration. Guess when he finally changed his registration back to the Republican Party? That's right. Only after President Trump was no longer in office and Joe Biden had become president.

Woke Eddie Gallrein, not just a Trump hater, a Trump traitor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: A Trump traitor endorsed by Trump. Do you think this might work?

PONNURU: I don't actually think it's going to work. I think its a sign of desperation.

TAPPER: By Massie?

PONNURU: By Massie. I think there is plenty of time for voters in the district to learn the truth, which is that Trump is now a certified hater of Massie, and that his more recent comments on them have included the word moron and the worst. [18:50:09]

I -- so I think that trying to make this a -- this basically dishonest plea that I'm the Trump guy, the other guy's the not Trump guy. It's just not going to work.

HINOJOSA: Yeah, he's trying to stop the bleeding in a place like Kentucky. When you have the president of United States in a place like Kentucky essentially coming out and saying that you're the worst, and that is not great for a district like that. And so, he is essentially trying to muddy the waters and see what he can.

He's like grasping at straws here. I agree with you. I don't think it works.

TAPPER: So, there is this big government shutdown when it comes to TSA employees. If it's affecting them and it's affecting the Coast Guard and others, it's affecting a lot of American travelers with these long, long, long lines.

In the last hour, we heard Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy come on the show warning that travel chaos is only going to get worse if this partial DHS shutdown drags on. Today, Senate Republicans are blaming Democratic Senator Jon Ossoff of Georgia, who's up for reelection. Surprise, surprise.

They posted, quote, "The Atlanta airport is in total chaos, hours long wait times. TSA agents working without pay, spring break, travelers missing their flights. All because Georgia Democrat Jon Ossoff refuses to fund TSA and DHS. Now, obviously, its not just because of Jon Ossoff, but it is true that Senate Democrats are refusing to pass the DHS bill because they want immigration changes. They have offered fund TSA, fund coast guard. But Republicans say no.

Do you think this can be successfully pinned on Democrats?

PONNURU: Right now, I don't think so. But I also don't think it's causing any political pain to Republicans. That's why it's going to persist, I'm afraid, for a while because we're in the situation. Neither party is actually getting anything out of this shutdown, I think, but neither party is actually feeling some pain over it.

If anything, maybe slightly more on the Republican side because it adds to the sort of ambient chaos that is part of the critique of Trump right now that people didn't want. But I just don't think it's enough to actually force action on the part of either party.

TAPPER: Do you think the Democrats? I mean, look, the Democrats, it's -- it's their shutdown. I get all the arguments and we but they're the ones that refuse to fund the DHS bill. Are they feeling any pain for this at all?

HINOJOSA: Well, I think that what Democrats I think their strategy has been really clear. And I mean, frankly, I think it's smart. Listen, ICE is funded to until 2029. And they have made that clear. I think they could probably say that a bit more. Now -- and the fact that they put on the table that, you know, fund TSA fund a fund, all of these other parts of DHS, I think is important.

I agree that I don't think that people are feeling the pain as you would a larger government shutdown. I do think that when you're talking about affordability and if you have these stories of TSA and personnel out there not being able to afford basic things, then I think it will hurt Democrats.

But at the end of the day, the Republicans control everything. And I don't think your average voter understands that this Democrats would be responsible for something like this when they don't control anything.

PONNURU: I think at one point, though, that has to be made. It is crazy that TSA workers are having to pay the price for an immigration fight that has nothing to do with them.

TAPPER: Absolutely nothing. It's also crazy that members of congress continue to be paid --

HINOJOSA: I agree --

TAPPER: -- even when they would take away paychecks from people who work -- who make $45,000 a year, and if any politician out there wants to come on the show and propose legislation to stop their own salaries during shutdowns, I will vote for that in addition to give you airtime.

Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, a message just in from former President George W. Bush on the sudden passing of a legend in Texas, actor and martial artist, Chuck Norris.

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[18:57:54]

TAPPER: Our last lead start in our national lead, where evacuations are in order for northern Oahu, Hawaii. A dam is at risk of, quote, "imminent failure". Flash flood warnings are in effect as water levels in the dam rise. Heavy rain and flash floods have destroyed homes and forced rescues on the northern shore of the island. Officials urge residents to continue evacuations in the area.

Sad news in our pop culture lead today, action movie star Chuck Norris is dead at the age of 86. Norris was a military veteran who started training in the martial arts when he was sent to Korea, eventually earning a black belt and becoming six-time world karate champion.

Encouraged by, among others, actor Steve McQueen, Norris segued into acting. His first memorable part was in 1972's "Way of the Dragon". Throughout the '70s and '80s, Norris made a name for himself as a rugged action hero in films like "Good Guys Wear Black".

Norris then made the switch to TV, starring in the long running popular series "Walker, Texas Ranger". Norris was also a prominent supporter of conservative politicians and causes.

And in fact, just a few minutes ago, former President George W. Bush released a statement about Chuck Norris's passing, which said in part, he was a legend in Texas and beyond. It was said when Chuck Norris entered a room, he didn't turn the lights on. He turned the dark off.

Chuck Norris died Thursday in what his family calls a sudden passing. May his memory be a blessing.

Two big programming notes look for the special CNN town hall on the war with Iran this evening. My colleague Dana Bash will moderate the conversation with U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Mike Waltz, and national security experts.

And they're going to take questions from a live studio audience. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern. And on the CNN app.

And then, of course, that's Friday night. Coming up Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION," House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York and Israeli ambassador to the United States, Michael Leiter. That's Sunday at 9:00 a.m., at noon Eastern on CNN and the CNN app.

I hope you enjoyed our experiment. The first hour of the show in my office. Will we do it again? Stay tuned.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram I hope you enjoyed our experiment. The first hour of I hope you enjoyed our experiment. The first hour of the show in my office. Will we do it again? Stay tuned. You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, X and on TikTok @jaketapper. You can follow the show on X and Instagram @TheLeadCNN.

If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app. Download the CNN app.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.