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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump's 'A.I. Jesus' Image Sparks Backlash As Pope Leo Responds To President's Attacks; Trump's New Threat To Iran; Judge Tosses Trump's $10B Lawsuit Against WSJ; Rep. Eric Swalwell Resigning From Congress Amid Scandal; VP Vance A Key Player In Two Trump Foreign Policy Failures. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired April 13, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

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KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST AND POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks very much to my panel. Really appreciate you being here. Thanks to all of you at home for watching as well. Really appreciate it. But don't go anywhere. "The Lead" anchored today by Anderson Cooper starts right now.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: President Trump says he was supposed to be a doctor in that A.I. photo, not Jesus. "The Lead" starts right now.

The White House's McDonald's delivery that came with a side of surprise. President Trump's wild explanation for a fake A.I. image depicting him as Jesus and why he insists he has good reason to keep criticizing the pope.

Plus, his new warning to Iran threatening to sink any fast attack ships that dare to intercept his blockade on the Strait of Hormuz and the tension is costing you, the American consumer.

And Democrat Eric Swalwell first dropping his campaign for California governor. Next, could he be pushed out of Congress? The new investigation launched into the congressman accused of sexual assault.

And welcome to "The Lead." I'm Anderson Cooper, pale imitation of Jake Tapper. We begin with our "Faith Lead," which today intersects with -- actually collides with our "Politics Lead." Over the past day, we have seen President Trump directly criticize the leader of the Roman Catholic Church, Pope Leo XIV. Now, the pope, for his part, has not been shy about sharply criticizing, in his words -- quote -- "those who wage war." The back and forth reach a crescendo today with on- camera comments by both men.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No, I don't because Pope Leo said things that are wrong. He was very much against what I'm doing with regard to Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE LEO XIV, HEAD OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, BISHOP OF ROME, SOVEREIGN OF THE VATICAN CITY STATE: The things I say are certainly not meant as attacks on anyone and the message of the gospel is very clear, blessed are the peacemakers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Also, today, the president posted on social media, then deleted this A.I. image of himself dressed like Jesus as light emanates from his hands healing a patient. The president says the image only shows him as a doctor. But it sure doesn't look like a doctor. There's some figure with wings above him and God-like light shining down upon him, a lady praying while gazing at the orb of light from Trump Jesus's hands. Note that picture comes only a week after Trump's obscene Easter morning post threatening Iran and using the F word.

CNN's Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb reports neither the pope nor the president is backing down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The U.S. president and the U.S. pope in a very public war of words.

POPE LEO: Welcome aboard.

LAMB (voice-over): Leo XIV responding to an extraordinary broadside against the Chicago-born pontiff by President Donald Trump. Speaking on board the papal plane to journalists covering a major 11-city visit to Africa, the first American pope made it clear he won't be intimidated.

POPE LEO: I have no fear of the Trump administration or speaking out loudly about of the message of the gospel, which is what I believe. I am here to do what the church is here to do.

LAMB (voice-over): The pontiff insisting the mission of the church is to build bridges, not engage in politics.

POPE LEO: We are not politicians. We don't deal with foreign policy with the same perspective he might understand it. But I do believe in the message of the gospel, as a peacemaker.

LAMB (voice-over): Leo has repeatedly spoken out against Trump's actions in Iran. President Trump fight back on Sunday night, lashing out to the pope of his criticism of the U.S. and Israel's war involving Iran.

TRUMP: We don't like it. We don't like a pope that's going to say that it's OK to have a nuclear weapon. We don't want a pope that says crime is OK in our cities. I don't like it. I'm not a big fan of Pope Leo.

LAMB (voice-over): On Truth Social, Trump went further, calling the pontiff weak on crime and terrible for foreign policy, even saying he prefers the pope's brother, Louis Prevost, who has shown his support for MAGA. Upping the ante, Trump also posted an A.I. image on Truth Social depicting himself as a Christ-like figure healing a sick person with American flags and eagles in the background. The image was later deleted.

TRUMP: I did post it. I thought it was me as a doctor. And it had to do with Red Cross. There is a Red Cross worker there, which we support. And only the fake news could come up with that one. It is supposed to be me as a doctor making people better.

LAMB (voice-over): Trump also claimed the pope was only elected last year because he is American, suggesting the church chose him to better deal with his presidency.

Pope Leo has repeatedly condemned the use of religious language to frame the military operation in Iran.

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PETE HEGSETH, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Rescued on Sunday. Flown out of Iran as the sun was rising on Easter Sunday. A pilot reborn, all home and accounted for, a nation rejoicing. God is good.

POPE LEO (through translator): Jesus is the king of peace who rejects war, whom no one can use to justify war. He does not listen to the prayers of those who wage war, but rejects them.

LAMB (voice-over): A Vatican official, Fr. Antonio Spadaro, saying Trump is attacking what he cannot control, a moral voice on the global stage. Trump does not argue with Leo. He implores him to return to a language he can control. But the pope speaks another language, one that cannot be reduced to the grammar of force, security or national interest.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAMB (on camera): Well, Anderson, Leo continuing his message of peace and dialogue here in Algeria, a Muslim majority country. And, you know, the thing about Leo is that he is quite mild-mannered and soft- spoken and deliberate. It seems that that style has gotten under the president's skin. I imagine that Pope Leo will continue to speak out. He also said on the plane that he thought that the title of Trump's social media platform, Truth Social, was ironic. Anderson?

COOPER: CNN's Christopher Lamb travelling with the pope in Algeria. Christopher, thanks so much.

I want to bring in Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island. He's the top Democrat on the Armed Services Committee as well as Catholic. Senator, thanks for being here. I'm wondering what you make of the president's attacks on the pope and of the pope's response.

SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): Well, the president's words are a grievous attack on anyone who is religious because what the pope is doing is reflecting the Bible and the teachings not just of the Catholic Church but of so many other religions. And what more disturbing is that the president's behavior over the last several hours and days is delusional. You know, to post a figure of himself dressed as Jesus Christ, that suggests that he wants people to think he's God. And then to turn around and try to explain a way, oh no, I'm a doctor, that's nonsense.

And this is a serious issue, whether he has the capacity to continue to lead. But it's -- he has insulted so many people of religious faith, and he's acting as he has, unfortunately, in the past of making these unconscionable statements.

COOPER: Well, I want to just put the image up that you're talking about. He's claiming that, you know, that he thought this was him as a doctor, which is just ludicrous, obviously. I know a couple doctors, and I've occasionally gone to a doctor, and they've never dressed like Jesus Christ and had celestial light beaming down upon them.

What's also interesting about this is this is not the first time. Just recently, he had an evangelical pastor with him who essentially gave a long soliloquy comparing him to Jesus, and the president certainly didn't object to that.

REED: No. I think the president is dominated by ego and self-interest, and that means he wants people around him to praise him even in the case compare him to the Lord, and that is not only disrespectful, it's also dangerous. He honestly thinks that he is, you know, the all- powerful. He said very publicly that there are no constraints upon me except my own morality. Well, he has not demonstrated a very high moral code in so many ways. So, this is very dangerous.

COOPER: Both the Vatican and the Pentagon last week denied a report in the free press about a January meeting in which the Vatican's top diplomat in the U.S. supposedly was told by a high-up Pentagon official the church should not get in the way of the U.S. Military. Have you heard anything about this meeting? Because, obviously, Pete Hegseth, who is not Catholic, he's evangelical, he has been very, in his verbiage, has, you know, been bringing God into his talk of war an awful lot.

REED: No, I have not heard any specifics. I have read the reported incident. It's disturbing if that is in fact the case. First of all, the Department of Defense should leave the foreign policy issues to the State Department and the people who are more qualified. But second, there is this religious theme and so many things that Hegseth said which contradicts his lethality logic.

[17:09:55]

And it seems that, you know, he's posing this in many cases as a fight between two religions, Christianity in the West and Muslims in Iran. And that's not what the United States is all about. You know, we're a country that embraces under the First Amendment all genuine displays of religion. And so, it's very troubling, what he's doing in Department of Defense.

COOPER: I want to talk about the war with Iran. I wonder what you make of the president's blockade on Iran's ports.

REED: Well, it's interesting. The president seems to be conducting a blockade to stop the Iranians from blockading. So, the logic and the strategy are consistent with this whole operation. There was no real sense of specific goals. There was no strategy other than bomb, bomb, bomb.

But they didn't understand that the resistance of the Iranians, the fact that they have been very good at asymmetric warfare for years. And more importantly, what Trump has caused is probably a more radical and harder line, and also perhaps more capable leadership. And he has also revealed to them, they probably suspected, that they have a tremendous strategic advantage in controlling the Strait of Hormuz. So, this whole operation has been unjustified and ineptly carried out.

Now, I must commend the military, though. I mean, technically, the ability of our and the bravery of our troops is second to none, but the leadership has led us to a point where, you know, we're blockading to prevent a blockade.

COOPER: Senator Jack Reed. Senator, thank you.

REED: Thank you.

COOPER: On the war with Iran, could President Trump's latest threat cause even more problems for the Strait of Hormuz? We'll take a look at that. And later, a case dismissed. Why a judge staked throughout President Trump's $10 billion defamation lawsuit against "The Wall Street Journal" for its reporting on the Epstein birthday book.

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COOPER: In our "World Lead," the U.S. Military blockade on traffic entering and leaving Iranian ports is now underway as of this morning. After weekend peace talks collapsed in Pakistan, the move was an effort to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, the critical oil water way that Iran effectively closed at the start of the war.

President Trump today on Truth Social said -- quote -- "Warning: If any of Iran's ships come anywhere close to our blockade, they will be immediately eliminated." A U.S. official tells CNN the U.S. and Iran are still engaged in talks and working toward a diplomatic off-ramp.

CNN's chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward is in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. So, the president today said that 34 ships went through the Strait of Hormuz yesterday. Is that accurate? And what is the latest on the situation in the strait?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Anderson, no, that number does not appear to be accurate. According to Kepler, which is a firm that monitors global shipping, approximately 14 vessels passed through the strait yesterday. That obviously is still well below the more than 100 that would cross every single day before the war. Today, since this blockade began, we are aware of two ships that appear to have tried to cross the strait only to have been turned around.

Now, we haven't seen any response from Iran yet in terms of retaliation, but certainly, we've seen some pretty fiery rhetoric. Just in the last couple of hours, a spokesperson for the IRGC, Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, put out a statement warning that Iran was ready to use -- quote -- "new methods of warfare that opponents would have limited ability to counter." We don't know exactly what they might be referring to there.

And we have also seen a threat against Gulf Arab nations. Iran is saying that if its ports are threatened, all ports throughout the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman would also potentially be under threat. And that's a threat, Anderson, that people here in Saudi Arabia and neighboring countries take very seriously because, of course, ports in the UAE, ports in Kuwait, ports in Oman all came under attack during the more kinetic phase of this war.

So, everyone watching closely now to see how and if this will escalate further, Anderson.

COOPER: And, apparently, Trump officials are discussing another potential meeting. What are you learning?

WARD: So, we're hearing this from a number of different sources, some in the Trump administration and some internationally, that basically there are efforts behind closed doors, shuttle diplomacy going on to try to take advantage of the nine days that are left in the window of this ceasefire and resolve some of the differences that still exist between the two sides and even potentially bring them together again for another round of talks, although it remains to be seen whether it would be at such high level, is the talks that we saw in Islamabad on Saturday. There's also speculation it might not be in Islamabad this time, possibly in Geneva.

But make no mistake, Anderson, there is a lot of hard work going on behind the scenes here because so many different countries are impacted hugely, particularly now with this counter-blockade in effect. The economic fallout is really catastrophic and rippling across the globe. And specifically, I think Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, all pushing hard to try to get this thing resolved before that ceasefire ends next week, Anderson.

COOPER: Clarissa Ward in Riyadh, thanks very much. I want to bring in Brett McGurk, former Middle East and North Africa coordinator of the National Security Council. Also with us is Henrietta Treyz, director of economic policy at Veda Partners. So, Brett, how complex an operation is this U.S. blockade of Iranian ports? What does that actually mean? And is that likely to help reopen the Strait of Hormuz?

BRETT MCGURK, FORMER MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA COORDINATOR, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: I think, Anderson, I mean, our Navy through CENTCOM can do it. I think they have the assets in place. It took them some time to get all this in place.

[17:20:00]

They sent two destroyers through the strait, through the international passageway, as these talks were going on in Pakistan over the weekend. And Anderson, I don't want to overlook, those talks in Pakistan this weekend was the highest-level talks between the U.S. and Iran since the Iranian Revolution. It was fairly extraordinary.

And what Clarissa just said is important. I'm also being told that behind the scenes, there's an awful lot of diplomatic activity going on here. And what this move from the Trump administration is trying to do is basically Iran showed up in Pakistan and said, you know, we have a proverbial gun on the table because we will control access to the Strait of Hormuz. Our ships can go through and those that we approve.

And now, the U.S. is saying, well, actually, no, your ships cannot go through, so you have no benefit from that nor does China because they're using that route, and we're going to try to open up the legal route, which was the status quo antebellum before the war.

Whether or not that works, it puts a lot of pressure on Iran, it puts a lot of pressure on China and other actors to try to help get to a diplomatic outcome.

And just a final point, Anderson. A lot of diplomacy going on. Not just the U.S. and Iran here behind the scenes. Tomorrow, we have Lebanon and Israel meeting at the State Department really for the first time directly since the early 1980s. So, there's a bit of a pause here in the war, a lot of diplomacy. I mean, let's hope, let's hope that something can come out of it. It's a long way from A to B. But a week ago, I might not have predicted that this would be where we are.

COOPER: Henrietta, what are you hearing from oil companies, ships, and insurers about this blockade?

HENRIETTA TREYZ, DIRECTOR OF ECONOMIC POLICY, VEDA PARTNERS: That's the perfect question for the insurers. I mean, not to be too nerdy about it, but it's the tax policy that gets you every time. The problem that the insurers tell me about, and I just was speaking to them this weekend, is the issue that J.D. Vance had to negotiate over this weekend was really a total catch-22, where the Iranians are allowing some ships to come through the strait. They were cleared of mines. They had identified a pathway. But they were collecting a tax, an I toll, that is what we're calling it now, that is violating U.S. sanctions law.

And if J.D. Vance had permitted it and allowed the tax to go through, he would have had to repeal the tax that we in turn label as a sanction. So, if you pay $2 million to get it through the strait, you pay that to the Iranians. We taxing on the back end $4 million, double that, and we threaten you with a lifetime in prison.

So, for the insurers and for the tankers, it's not just that they have to risk, you know, violating sanctions and get through. That's a permanent stain on their record if they can even get past the mines. So, the technical components of this are why they had to move into a blockade.

COOPER: And Brett, I mean, Saudi Arabia is on the other end of the Strait of Hormuz, obviously. Why is President Trump asking NATO to help and not the Saudis?

MCGURK: Actually, I think the Gulf states are participating with their navies to extent they can. But in the actual blockade, it's the U.S. Navy. It is the U.S. Navy. It's our destroyers. We have two aircraft carrier strike groups, Anderson. I mean, NATO -- well, the U.S., the UK, and France are organizing this naval coalition. But what they're saying about it is it will only go in and help protect freedom of navigation basically after there's a ceasefire or after the war is over. So that doesn't really do too much. And those ships are nowhere in place to do much, anyway.

This is really a U.S. show and this is a showdown, Anderson. As we've been talking from the early days of this crisis, there's a showdown about the Strait of Hormuz. That's what this is coming down to. It's very predictable. And it's now -- I mean, the only -- the only bright spot here is there's a lot of diplomacy going on. So, we're not only in a war phase, we're in a pause. And again, let's just hope that something can come of this.

COOPER: But, I mean, how long can a blockade be held of Iranian ports? It can go on -- I mean, how difficult is it to maintain?

MCGURK: I think the key point, Anderson, Henrietta would, I hope, agree with this, that the key point here is do we get the channel open for shipping to go through? And do the insurers have confidence to start moving traffic? I just want to say that is going to be extremely complicated. I dealt with that in the Red Sea, where we did have an international coalition, and we still could not get that confidence to have ships go through.

If this goes on for weeks, the economic toll for the global economy is potentially quite catastrophic. And that's something that Iran knows, right? That's what they know. They think time is on their side. So, the objective here is to block those Iranian ships so they're not benefiting, and then to reopen that international passageway and hope that the shipping companies and insurers have the confidence to begin moving traffic.

COOPER: And Henrietta, the world is about to get its last delivery of pre-war oil because the last oil tankers that left the strait before the war are about to reach their destination. When that runs out, what happens to oil markets, gas prices, practically speaking?

TREYZ: I mean, what's really extraordinary is that still, as you point out, to this week, we are still getting shipments from before the war even started. And it's not just oil and gas, it's also fertilizer and urea and nitrogen and helium and all these critical components that go into everything that you and I have in our homes and are about to buy at the grocery store.

[17:25:03]

When you think about the impact of losing these ships, consider the cost of your price of food. Forty to 50 percent of the cost of anything you buy at the grocery store, whether it's a carrot or a tomato, is from the cost of growing it, from the fertilizer, and that is what is blocked up at the straight.

So, when we reach roughly, you know, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday of this week, that's when the last shipments from the strait will hit North America. And at that point, what you should think about it is like gas prices are really just the tip of the spear. After that, it's all the transit. You know, if you see a ship or truck going down the highway, that truck is paying diesel prices, which are $5.50 at least, and then it's going to pass on to your grocery store, your big box retailer, then it starts to hit us when we go out to restaurants.

So, the worst of this pain has not yet begun. It will really start to hit around April 29th, and the agriculture industry is expecting that it won't really bake all the way in until the first quarter of 2027.

COOPER: And we have, by the way, never apologize for nerding out, especially here. I think we're all pretty much nerds here.

(LAUGHTER)

So, Henrietta Treyz, thanks so much. Brett McGurk as well. Here in the U.S., why a federal judge is giving the president a second chance to file his $10 billion defamation lawsuit against "The Wall Street Journal" after initially tossing out the case today. We'll explain that.

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COOPER: And welcome back. I'm not Jake Tapper. We are back with the Law and Justice Lead. And a judge today dismissing President Trump's $10 billion defamation case against "The Wall Street Journal." Trump sued after the paper published entries in a birthday book to Jeffrey Epstein that included a letter with Trump's signature outlined in a lewd drawing of a naked woman. CNN's Brian Stelter is following this one. Brian, a judge tossed out the suit, but Trump's legal team can refile. Can you explain?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: That's right. Hey, Anderson. Yes, Judge Darrin Gayles dismissed Trump's lawsuit without prejudice, which means the Trump team has two weeks to refile if the lawyers follow the judge's directions. And Trump's legal team says that's exactly what they will do. "President Trump will follow Judge Gayles' ruling and guidance to refile this powerhouse lawsuit against the Wall Street Journal and all the other defendants."

Now, I have not found any outside lawyers who would call this a powerhouse case. This is mostly viewed as a P.R. stunt masquerading as a lawsuit, as a political screed masquerading as a lawsuit, maybe as an attempt to distract people from the reality of Trump's ties to Epstein. And ultimately, there was no evidence that "The Journal" knowingly published anything false when it reported on this birthday book letter last year.

That's the high legal standard, knowingly false, that the Trump team must meet in order to prevail in a defamation suit. And so far, Anderson, the Trump team just has not met that high standard.

COOPER: Brian Stelter, thanks very much.

We have breaking news. Congressman Eric Swalwell has just announced that he is resigning from Congress. Let's go right to CNN's Manu Raju in Capitol Hill. Manu, what are you learning?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is happening very rapidly. Just moments ago, Eric Swalwell posting on X that he plans to resign his seat that he is occupied representing the Northern California District and saying so in the aftermath of these very serious allegations of sexual misconduct, including an allegation of rape.

He has denied these allegations, but indicating in this statement that all of this was too much of a distraction to he said to his constituents, which is why he plans to give up his seat in Congress. Now this statement, I'll read to you, Anderson, says, I am deeply sorry to my family, staff and constituents for mistakes and judgment. I've made in my past. I will fight this serious false allegation made against me. However, I must take responsibility and ownership for the mistakes I did make. I'm aware of efforts to bring an immediate expulsion vote against me and other members expelling anyone in Congress without due process within days of an allegation being made is wrong, he said. But it's also wrong for my constituents to have me distracted from my duties. Therefore, I plan to resign my seat in Congress.

He goes on to say, he'll work to ensure a smooth transition. But this is a dramatic downfall, Anderson. Swalwell was a frontrunner, Democratic frontrunner for the party's nomination to be the next governor of California battling out with several other Democrats in that race. But in the aftermath of all these allegations, he saw his support completely collapsed, one backer after another withdrawing the support, their support calling on him to withdraw from his race for California governor.

Ultimately, he did announce last night that he would no longer run for governor, but it was still a question about how whether you try to hang on to the seat, Anderson, but there was expected to be there a vote this week to expel him. And a lot of Democrats were indicating that they would vote indeed to expel him from Congress, but a dramatic downfall from someone who rose to prominence as an anti-Trump Democrat, a leader to become the next governor of California now plans to give up his seat among these very serious allegations of sexual misconduct. Anderson?

COOPER: Manu Raju, Manu, thanks for the breaking news.

I want to go straight to CNN's Elex Michaelson and Politico's California Bureau chief Melanie Mason, they join me now. Melanie, let me start with you. I mean the -- first of all, what's your reaction to the -- to this breaking news?

[17:34:58]

MELANIE MASON, CALIFORNIA BUREAU CHIEF, POLITICO: I mean, I just keep thinking about what an incredible week this has been in this campaign. I mean at this time last week, I would say that congressman or I guess I should say former Congressman Swalwell was poised to be the Democratic frontrunner. I think we were about to see that breakout for him. And look at what we have seen just in the course of the week. So the fact that this news is just breaking right now that he is resigning, to me, it's just kind of underscores the world we're in that we've been throughout here in California over the last seven days.

COOPER: Elex?

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, I cannot think of a faster fall from grace in modern political history. I mean over the course of Friday afternoon in a span of about 15 minutes, he lost not only the support of, you know, pretty much everybody in the party, but all of his best friends. Ruben Gallego who had put out statements in the past calling Eric Swalwell his best friend in Congress put out a statement late this afternoon calling for Eric Swalwell to be expelled. He lost his support over the weekend of his staff, all saying you should drop out, even staffers who potentially could lose their own jobs in the process.

So Eric Swalwell with left with essentially no support from anyone in any direction, no support to run a campaign, no money, no organization, no message and no support to even run a congressional office. And so right now he's left with nothing and no job. And potentially, Anderson, criminal charges.

COOPER: And Melanie what does happen now? I mean the -- there's a variety of allegations some of them, you know, criminal others just, you know, go to a question of character.

MASON: I think that when all of when stories like this break, I think that the next question is will more people come forward. I in fact saw a press news release coming out that we should expect a press conference tomorrow with somebody alleging that they had -- they were a victim of Congressman Swalwell. And so I do wonder if the dam breaks if there are more women that come out and share their stories. But also I think that there's what happens now is that California still has to figure out who its next governor is going to be and ballots drop here in just about a month.

And so I think that as people here in California were trying to process this news about Swalwell over the weekend. They were also trying to understand the state of the race and trying to figure out. OK, who do we go to now, you know, most of the Democratic establishment I would say somewhat reluctantly coalesced around Swalwell over the last couple of months. And now I think that they're looking around and trying to figure out which iceberg to jump to. COOPER: Well, let's talk about the governor's race because, you know, there's obviously this major gap now that as you said, it's on June 2nd. The field is crowded. Swalwell as you said was the frontrunner but among them right now billionaire Tom Steyer, got former congresswoman Katie Porter the former HHS secretary -- who was the former HHS secretary. You got the mayor of San Jose. What are some of the other -- what are you hearing from some of the other candidates right now?

MICHAELSON: Well, I think it --

MASON: Well, certainly it was that immediately --

COOPER: Sorry.

MASON: Go ahead Elex.

COOPER: Go ahead Melanie.

MASON: I just have to say that what struck me is that immediately we started seeing the dueling polls. Elex, I'm sure you saw them too from the two campaigns that were trying to say that they were best positioned to pick up those Swalwell supporters. And so I think we'll start seeing that spin kind of ramp up over the next couple days.

COOPER: Yes, Elex. I mean, are there any, you know, early indications of who may gain momentum here?

MICHAELSON: Well, all the campaigns are trying to spin that. So Melanie this morning had reporting that Matt Mahan the mayor of San Jose reported that he raised $10 million over the weekend just after the Swalwell news broke trying to show that he's got momentum. Xavier Becerra's campaign trying to show that he's got momentum.

Now, let's be clear Anderson. This thing has been an open secret and whispered about amongst the campaigns for months that this Swalwell thing could break. And we have both talked to campaigns who have said off the record part of the reason that they stayed in the race, even though their poll numbers were low was that they were expecting that there could be this big story that breaks about Eric Swalwell that knocks him out of the race and that gives them all a fresh start.

So all these campaigns sort of think that this is a new opportunity for people to look at them, but they don't have much time. I mean, we've got a debate on May 5th here on CNN. There's a few other debates that are scheduled. But remember in California, you got a month to vote everybody who's registered is mailed a ballot. So people will start voting within a few weeks.

COOPER: Melanie was it that big of an open secret?

MASON: Well, I will say that Elex is exactly right. This is precisely why all of these Democrats even the ones who are pulling at 1 percent, 2 percent were refusing to get out of the race because I think that there was an anticipation that something would be happening. We just dropped a back behind the scenes story here at "Politico" about how the last few months unfolded that included the fact that there were political operatives that were putting on social media as early as December that there were rumors out there.

[17:40:10]

Now, this tweet was promptly erased, but I can tell you that it circulated a lot among the campaigns, it circulated a lot among lobbyists and other people who would be sort of endorsers in this race. And so I think that there was not necessarily clarity about what would come out or even if something would come out, and I will say that I don't think any of the rumors touched on the severity of some of the reporting that your colleagues at CNN did. But I think that there was some sort of anticipation that something would emerge.

COOPER: I mean, Elex, if that -- if the allegations are true, the fact that he would stake a race, I mean, that he would run, it's kind of breathtaking.

MICHAELSON: If they're true. And then the question is, you know, did he think that this was all consensual? And now his attorney, when I pushed his attorney on Friday night on CNN on that point of, was this him cheating on his wife, but he thought that it was consensual, he wouldn't get into the details of that. And Swalwell hasn't said that. Earlier in the week, he said that he had never behaved inappropriate with staffers. That changed over the days.

But you are -- you do, you wonder sort of what was going on in his mind. Possibly he thought it was consensual and possibly he thought that many of these women had come back and supported him, and so he didn't think maybe there was going to be a problem.

COOPER: And Melanie, the margins are thin in the house. How will his seat be filled?

MASON: I think we're still waiting to see, you know, Governor Newsom has the ability to call a special election. We're also so close to the June primary that there might be consolidation. But I do think that one of the conversations that had been going on prior to Swalwell's resignation was, would there be kind of a one for one, you know, there's a lot of chatter on the Republican side about Congressman Tony Gonzalez. And if she -- if he should step down for some of the stories that have since come out about him.

So I do wonder with, as you said, the margins being so tight, do Democrats push on that further now that they're down one more vote? I still think that people are trying to make a sense of what truly is this breaking news.

MICHAELSON: And Anderson, just on that point, there is no mechanism in California for the governor to appoint a member of the House. The governor can appoint a member of the Senate here, but not a member of the House. So that seat is going to remain open for some time.

Even if the governor called a special election, the soonest that somebody could be in there is around September. So those constituents in that district are not going to have a member of Congress. And with the margins that tight, the Democrats are going to be down one vote.

COOPER: And Elex, have you heard anything? I mean, has Governor Newsom said anything? Has former Vice President Kamala Harris said anything about the allegations or the primary?

MICHAELSON: Governor Newsom put out a quote saying that these are serious allegations. He did not call for Swalwell to drop out. One of the few people who didn't. We know when Governor Newsom wants to say something publicly, he is very good at getting attention for his message. He was about as low key on this as it gets. We've not heard from Kamala Harris on this either.

So it's interesting at a time when almost everybody in California politics weighed in, the two most famous members of the California political world were not very loud.

COOPER: It is a stunning development. Elex Michelson, Melanie Mason, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

[17:43:31]

President dispatching Vice President J.D. Vance to lead talks with Iran this weekend. Those 21-hour talks amounted to no deal. It was also Vice President Vance sent to Hungary to campaign for Viktor Orban, who lost his re-election bid. Is there anything to read into the missed opportunities both involving the President's number two? We'll get into that next.

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COOPER: In our World Lead, two high-profile flops on the global stage for Vice President J.D. Vance. The Vance-led U.S. delegation failed to reach a deal with Iran on their nuclear program and to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. And Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, a Trump ally, obviously, lost his race for re-election despite a campaign appearance with the Vice President. I want to talk about with former Trump White House Communications Director Anthony Scaramucci. Before we get to that, I just got to ask you first about Eric Swalwell announcing he's leaving Congress.

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FMR. TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Oh, you know, listen, I'm going to play to the human side of that story with his wife, Brittany, and his three children. I would just say to Eric, you know, get this thing fixed up at home the best you possibly can.

I think it was very smart for him to leave the Congress and the race behind him, but work on your personal life, you know? And by the way, my heart goes out to him. You may remember this. When I got fired from the White House, Deirdre and I were fighting with each other. We were able to repair our marriage, thank God. So, I would just say to Eric, family first, and, you know, get it together. You know, that would be my message.

COOPER: He's also facing very serious allegations. SCARAMUCCI: Well, listen, I -- you know, it's hard for sometimes these politicians, Anderson, but, you know, get more honest more quickly. I listened to your last interview. He was denying, denying, and now he seems to be widening the level of truth, if you will. And I would just tell him, get the truth out there and get this cleared up and behind you. And if those allegations are true, then you got to face the music.

COOPER: The -- let's talk about globally. The in-person negotiations in Pakistan with Iran took place over the course of 21 hours. U.S. official tells CNN the U.S. and Iran are still engaged in talks. I know you had a lot to say about Vance leading these negotiations. What do you make of him essentially coming away with nothing?

[17:50:06]

SCARAMUCCI: Well, I would say Vance has got the trifecta now with pro- Pope Francis, Viktor Orban, and these negotiations. So if he shows up in flowing robes, Anderson, and he says that he's your doctor, I would run, Anderson. That would just be my advice to you and your CNN staff. But I think the Trump stuff is related to Vance.

And just give me a second on that. Vance has got a book coming out in June talking about his conversion to Catholicism. I am a practicing Catholic. And I think the attack on the Pope, weirdly, is designed to hurt Vance because that's what Trump likes to do to the people that are close to him. Vance should be denouncing this attack the way Giorgia Meloni did in Italy. And other world leaders have denounced this attack on the Pope.

But, of course, Vance won't do that because he's a supplicant of Donald Trump. And that's Trump's message to Vance. You know, you're -- forget about your religion. You know, I'm basically the person that you're kowtowing to. So people won't see it exactly that way. But let me just make one more point.

This is also to protect Hegseth because Hegseth was in the crosshairs of a lot of Catholics, a lot of Catholic donors, very upset with what they were doing with the diplomats at the Pentagon, the Vatican diplomats at the Pentagon. And so there's a double whammy going here in addition to, you know, I don't know, something going definitely wrong cognitively with the President.

COOPER: And do you think this is -- it has anything to do with, I mean, Pete Hegseth has been very vocal from an evangelical standpoint of bringing God into the war in Iran. You know, we had an evangelical pastor at the White House, you know, essentially laying hands on President Trump, comparing him to Jesus over and over and over again, with the President standing there kind of beaming and certainly not saying no to those comparisons. Is that -- does that have anything to do with the President going after the Pope?

SCARAMUCCI: Yes, it's all related. So you have to, you know, everyone thinks that it's just flipping and Trump's lost his mind. He probably has lost a little bit of his mind, but it's very strategic on the President's part. His whole thing is that you kowtow to me. The decision-making is a body of one. And he doesn't like the Pope's rhetoric. And so Hegseth and his guys went to talk to the diplomats there. Catholic community that supports the president is very upset with that.

And so this is sort of a rebuke and a shove of everybody. So that would include Hegseth and Rubio, who are Catholics, his Catholic donors, et cetera. And I think it's all connected. And it's also to show his support for Hegseth because I would say the number one yes man in the administration is Pete Hegseth. You know, Rubio will push back on the president. Obviously, Vice President Vance diverged from him on the war, but not Pete Hegseth.

So again, you know, everyone's looking at it superficially and say, OK, wow, it's Orthodox Easter and the President's comparing himself to Jesus and he's attacking the Pope. And, you know, that's very odd behavior and it's probably indicative of his cognitive decline. But I see something more strategic there, knowing him and knowing what he likes to do to his staff.

COOPER: The other -- I mean, I looked at the timeline of the social media posts. I mean, this one, the -- you know, the A.I. Trump Jesus slash doctor tending to patients with white glowing light coming out of both his hands and celestial, godlike light beaming down on his very youthful continence. That was like at 9:00 p.m. or so.

And then all night long throughout, I mean, up until, you know, every, like, midnight, 2:00 a.m., 4:00 a.m. Is he -- I mean, I know he's often not slept, but it seems like he was -- I don't know if somebody else was doing it, but there were posts all night long.

SCARAMUCCI: No.

COOPER: That's weird.

SCARAMUCCI: I also -- listen, I think the A.I., because the A.I. sometimes hallucinates, I think the A.I. is also dunking him a little bit there. He got, like, a young Jeff Epstein in the picture. So to me, he's up all night. He's Zoom-scrolling. We can pretend he doesn't have anxiety, that he's not human, but of course he does have anxiety. You can even hear it in the hoarseness in his voice. He's very fatigued.

And they don't have a strategy. They don't have a clear strategy. And, you know, listen, I want this to work for the American people and for our troops, and maybe the blockade will be something that works, and maybe we'll get to a peace deal. I certainly want that to happen. But we went into this thing without an exit strategy, and we went into this thing off of intuition, as opposed to what would really happen.

And anybody that read through the mosaic defense strategy that was formulated over 20 years of the Iranians observing the United States and Iraq and Afghanistan that didn't think that they were going to do exactly what they did, I find that hard to believe.

[17:55:12] And if we had people in the Congress that had a backbone, they would be calling these guys in. And even if it was in a skiff, they'd be calling these guys in privately and say, so what's up? Stop leaking to "The New York Times" and why don't you tell us why you didn't think the last 40-plus days were going to unfold exactly the way they did, given all the intelligence that we have on the Iranians and its government and the survival of that government.

COOPER: Anthony Scaramucci, thank you. Appreciate it.

SCARAMUCCI: Thank you.

COOPER: Despite the tension, a U.S. official tells CNN the U.S. and Iran are still talking. The question is, can it lead to any kind of new round of formal negotiations? Also, how long can the President keep up his new blockade that started today on Iran? CNN's Kaitlan Collins is hearing over at the White House next.

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