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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Iran, Trade, Tech, Taiwan On Agenda For Trump-Xi Summit; NYT: Iran Has Retained Nearly 70 Percent Of Its Pre-War Missile Stockpile; New Podcast Claims Gorsuch Is Court's Biggest Wild Card; Burgum Testifies Before House On Interior Department Budget; Princess Kate Makes Royal Overseas Trip. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired May 13, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: All right. Thanks very much to my panel. Really appreciate you all being here. Thanks to you at home for watching as well.

And a quick programming note. The former FBI director James Comey will join us live in The Arena tomorrow. Do tune in same place, same time, 4:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. But for now don't go anywhere. The singular Jake Tapper is standing by for "The Lead."

Hi, Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Hey, Kasie. How are you doing? We're going to look for more tomorrow from you in "The Arena."

HUNT: See you soon.

[17:00:37]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: So who holds the best cards when Trump meets with Xi tonight? The Lead starts right now.

President Trump just hours away from his first face to face with Xi Jinping. Does the Chinese leader have an upper hand in negotiations? Well, we're going to talk to a former White House insider who says yes after dealing directly with China for years.

And a shocking twist in a trial that captured the nation's attention, a court overturning the murder convictions of Alex Murdaugh, the South Carolina lawyer who took the stand in his own defense denying that he killed his wife and son. Why today's decision does not mean case closed just yet? Plus, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch is out on a book tour. He's got a kid's book he wrote. But more interesting to us, a podcaster's real deep dive on Gorsuch's life.

She'll be here with details you have not heard before.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We begin in our world lead. We're hours away from a summit between President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping that could be critical to the U.S. war with Iran as well as the U.S. economy. Trump is expected to encourage China to push Iran, an ally of China, to reopen the state of Hormuz and to agree to a peace deal in the Iran War.

The stakes on such progress are considerable. A Pentagon official now says the Iran War has just so far cost the US $29 billion, which is $4 billion higher than the Pentagon's estimate to Congress two weeks ago. American taxpayers are already, of course, feeling the effects of the war with Iran closing the Strait of Hormuz to oil traffic. The Trump administration is draining America's emergency oil stockpile at the fastest pace on record, even faster than under Biden.

Some analysts warn that the national average for gas will eventually, if not soon, hit $5 a gallon. Today, it's $4.51. None of this is remotely popular with the American people. In fact, in CNN's new poll, Trump's inflation approval rating is 26 percent. Seventy percent of the American people disapprove.

That's 48 percentage points underwater. By the way, for the seventh time this year, the Senate today rejected a measure that would restrict Trump's war powers abilities by requiring congressional approval for any future military action in Iran. The measure failed to advance 49 to 50. Democratic Senator John Fetterman joined Republicans to reject it, while Republican Senators Rand Paul, Susan Collins, and Lisa Murkowski voted with Democrats to limit those war powers abilities.

When it comes to tonight's summit, remember, China is a major U.S. competitor, so the Iran War is not the only hugely consequential item on the agenda. Other items include trade with China, curbing China's role in the fentanyl crisis in the United States, the future of Taiwan, with many U.S. officials fearing that Xi may try to negotiate reduced U.S. arms support for Taiwan, and of course, the issue of tech, as the U.S. and China are locked in a race to build the most sophisticated and advanced AI technology.

Note that President Trump stepped off Air Force One with some heavy hitters in the world of tech, including SpaceX and Tesla CEO Elon Musk, plus NVIDIA president and CEO Jensen Huang. Oh, and if you look close, there is Eric Trump, Trump's son, just so happens to run Trump Organization.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is in Beijing where this important summit will soon be underway.

Kristen, President Trump initially wanted to focus on U.S. economic priorities in the summit, how is the Iran war impacting the agenda?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, it's certainly looming over every single thing that is happening here. Now, there are going to be several economic deals that come out of this because both sides want to be able to announce economic deals, whether it's in tech, whether it's private sector deals, we know there's going to be conversations about China purchasing soybeans as well as commercial debt liners. So those things are still going to happen.

But the real question is how much leverage President Trump has, if any, going into this. And just a reminder, President Trump didn't want this summit to happen with the Iran war hanging over. That's why he delayed it six weeks. He believed that this would be over by then. But of course, now we're in a situation which not only is it not over, but we know that behind the scenes, President Trump is so frustrated, he's very seriously considering going back to combat operations in Iran.

[17:05:16]

And President Xi is somebody who could work with the Iranians, who could help push the Iranians to come to some sort of deal. Now, what President Xi wants in exchange for that, that is really the big question. You noted that several U.S. officials, as well as regional sources, they're very concerned that President Xi is going to use Taiwan as a bargaining trip when it comes to the war in Iran. There are going to be a number of conversations about Iran.

I mean, just to show you, you showed the people coming off the plane, there is almost no reason in any other trip for the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, to be on a trip like this. This is supposed to be about stabilizing diplomatic relations. And yet there he was coming off the plane. He flew over here with President Trump.

And the interesting thing, I do want to mention one thing, you talked about Eric Trump and how he runs Trump Org. I was just going back, there have been so many deals that have been announced from Trump Org in those Gulf countries that President Trump visited at the beginning of his term. Since then, I saw at least three new deals that have been announced with Trump Org. So there's likely to be some kind of real estate talk or development project that's going to be in the works with Trump Org as well, which is, I mean, just a fascinating development when you understand that this is President Trump's company that his son now runs. But again, there is going to be several business deals that are announced out of this.

TAPPER: All right, Kristen Holmes in Beijing, thanks so much.

Let's talk about this with Julian Gewirtz. He led the White House team responsible for coordinating U.S. policy on China during the previous Joe Biden administration.

So, Julian, you just published an op-ed in the New York Times. It's titled "Xi is Planning for China's Final Victory Over the U.S." writing, quote, "For the first time, Xi may now see a path toward achieving key goals, such as disrupting U.S. alliances in Asia and weakening American support for Taiwan, as well as Washington's ability to impede China's rise through technology, export restrictions and economic sanctions." So why do you think these paths for China are now open?

JULIAN GERWITZ, FORMER NSC CHINA SENIOR DIRECTOR, BIDEN ADMIN.: It's great to be with you, Jake. And I'd start by saying one very simple thing, which is that when President Trump heads into that room with President Xi in just a few hours, he's going to be confronting a determined, focused opponent who has been working for years to be ready for this moment, to be ready to bring an American president to Beijing as a peer, and to do so in an environment where China has stalemated the United States. President Trump imposed very high tariffs last year, China punched back, and President Trump stepped down. So that's the context for this meeting.

And, you know, as you and your colleague were just discussing, the decision by President Trump to bring all of these CEOs with him to China is really striking. It flies directly in the face of years of U.S. policy under both Trump's first administration and the prior Biden administration, where the goal was to de-risk the U.S. economy from China to protect ourselves from challenges emanating from China. Now he's turned that on his head and is seeking more exposure and more entanglement with the Chinese economy.

TAPPER: What's your biggest fear about this summit in terms of how things could go wrong for the U.S.?

GERWITZ: Well, I have two big worries. One is on the technology file, which you alluded to. And you know, for the past several years, the United States and China have been locked in a competition around artificial intelligence. And these are two very powerful artificial intelligence powers. And for China, the most important thing that they lack is access to advanced semiconductors.

And the decision to have the leader of NVIDIA, Jensen Huang, join in Alaska on the refueling stop, kind of a last minute decision, indicates to me that there is a possibility that President Trump will be trying to get China to buy more NVIDIA chips, which is the opposite of the national security concerns that have tried to have us sell fewer to China.

My other big concern is on Taiwan, where we know that President Xi is going to press, as he always does, for the United States to halt support arms sales, the kind of thing that the United States has done for decades and is actually required by Congress to do. And I think there's some legitimate concern in the security community that President Trump will be willing to play ball with Xi on that.

TAPPER: Conversely, what might you consider a win for the summit?

GERWITZ: Well, you know, one of the things that I think is really important to remember is that the goal of stability in U. S.-China relations, which both Washington and Beijing support, seek for, not a return to escalation but for stability, is quite a good thing.

[17:10:07]

There's nothing wrong at all with the idea that the United States and China should be able to manage their differences and compete safely and peacefully. And so to my mind, the real question about, you know, what does a win look like comes down to if we do have this period of stalemate and de-escalation, does the United States use it to strengthen the sources of our power at home and with our allies? Or as we've seen, do we use this period of de-escalation to launch a war with Iran and do other things that seem to undermine those sources of strength.

TAPPER: You mentioned the NVIDIA CEO on the plane there. President Trump's entourage also includes members of his family, including his son Eric, who runs the Trump Organization. You heard Kristen Holmes talking about potential business opportunities that the Trump Organization might be seeking in China. What do you make of all that?

GERWITZ: Well, look, the Chinese government has watched very closely as other countries around the world have used a range of different, shall we say, quite unorthodox means of gaining access and influence with this administration, family members of the president and of course, of others in the administration. And so in this sense, we are seeing the emergence of this new style of highly transactional diplomacy that President Trump seems to be most comfortable with. That doesn't just mean transactionalism between governments, but it also means the kind of deal making, the kind of signaling that extends well beyond what any prior administration has countenanced in terms of private and public being conflated.

TAPPER: Julian Gerwitz, thank you so much for your time today. Appreciate it, sir.

We're going to talk more about one of the biggest conflicts on the sideline of today's meeting and that is the war with Iran. How much could China help bring an end to the war? And Later, Vice President J.D. Vance not on the trip to China. How -- hear how he's trying to laugh that off before the critics do. That's ahead.

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[17:15:58]

TAPPER: Continuing in our world lead right now, President Trump is in China against a backdrop of America's war on Iran. It's a conflict that's gone well past Trump's initial six week deadline. It has sent gas prices soaring, Trump's approval rating falling.

Joining us now to discuss retired U.S. Admiral James Stavridis. He's the former senior allied commander of NATO and also has a new novel out called "2084."

Admiral, thanks for joining us. So according to the New York Times, U.S. intelligence has come to the conclusion that Iran, while having, you know, substantial missile capabilities damaged, they've regained a lot of those capabilities along the Strait of Hormuz, which of course directly contradicts what we're hearing from the White House. The assessment suggests Iran has rebuilt 30 of the 33 missile sites along the strait. How big of a setback might this be for the U.S.?

JAMES STAVRIDIS, U.S. NAVY (RET.): I think it's a significant setback, Jake. I'm deeply surprised at this finding, if it's accurate, obviously this is all highly classified, but if accurate, good on the CIA for bringing bad news to the leadership. They need to hear it. I personally watching the campaign, the shock and awe, having been through this many times in the Gulf wars, was expecting kind of maybe 30 percent still capable, but to hear that they have 70 percent of their, really their top end weapon system still viable, accessible, worrisome in two principal ways. One, threatens the strait, which we need to get open, and number two, really worrisome, threatens the Gulf Arab states. Their Oil and gas infrastructure.

So this is not welcome news at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. TAPPER: President Trump suggested he does not need China's help or Xi's help with the war. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think President Xi can help contribute to a deal with Iran?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He could. I mean, it might be.

Yes. I don't think we need any help with Iran, to be honest with you. They're defeated militarily, and they'll either do the right thing or we'll finish a job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Do you agree that the U.S. doesn't need any help with Iran?

STAVRIDIS: I believe it would be very helpful if President Xi would lean in and try and convince the Iranians to get to the table.

Look, Jake, President Trump really has three options right now. None of them are very good. Number one, he can just walk away from this altogether. Leave the Iranians in possession of the strait and 1,000 (inaudible) of nuclear material. Not a good option.

Number two, he alluded to it just there. He can go back to shock and awe, big bombing campaign. Problem with that is very expensive. And if those reports are true, Iran still has cards to play potentially against Gulf infrastructure.

Number three, and where I think this lands, continue our blockade, use that to slowly draw the noose around the Iranian economy. But the problem with that one, Jake, is time. That clock ticking over President Trump's head, midterms, primaries happening now, tanking approval ratings, gas prices soaring. He doesn't have very many good options. So if he could phone a friend, and that would be President Xi, I think that would be a smart move, frankly.

TAPPER: I want to ask you about your new novel. It focuses on the technological threats 20 years after a hypothetical nuclear war between the U.S. and China. How do we avoid your novel becoming nonfiction one day? How do we avoid a showdown with China, particularly over the issue of Taiwan, although there's no shortage of issues, also, you could come up with hacking our grid, which is another big, big concern.

STAVRIDIS: I'd add to it China's ownership claims of the entire South China Sea. Fentanyl, as you say, shadowy cyber war, Taiwan. So we have a rich basket of disagreements.

[17:20:09]

How do we avoid it? Part of the reason we wrote the book was to elicit cautionary fiction. How do you reverse engineer and avoid this? I'll give you three things. Number one is happening in front of us.

It's summits, it's high level engagement over time. Number two, it's technical engagement. It's making sure that young Navy commander can talk to and reach out with a series of protocols with his counterparts. And number three, again, we're seeing it, it's the economic engagement, bringing those business leaders. That's smart business.

And if nations are trading and working together in the economic front, they're less likely to go to war. None of those are foolproof, but they're part of the solution set. We need to have a plan to make sure. Your point, we avoid stumbling into a war with China.

TAPPER: All right. Admiral James Stavridis, thank you so much, sir. Appreciate it. Congrats on the new book.

President Trump once faced criminal charges for classified documents found at his Mar-a-Lago home. So where are all those boxes now? Coming up next, the stunning revelation today after years of back and forth.

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[17:25:31]

TAPPER: In our law and justice lead. So whatever happened to those boxes and boxes of classified documents that the FBI found at Mar-a- Lago in 2022? Well, a hearing in federal court today revealed a bombshell about those boxes. And let's bring in CNN's Katelyn Polantz.

Katelyn, you were in court. So what did you learn?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, the news is that the Mar-a-Lago boxes, they are, quote, from a Justice Department lawyer, they're in the possession of the president in his personal capacity. So they're Trump's, they're his. He can do whatever he wants with them now. We have heard a lot about these boxes over the last couple years. The last thing that we had really heard about them was that the National Archives was taking them and some had been sent back to Florida, where Trump said, we're keeping them for the presidential library.

That would keep them as government documents. But now the Justice Department is saying, yes, not really, we don't need to do that. They're Trump's personal property, at least the ones that aren't in the hands of the National Archives.

Now, the issue with this that presidential historians are bringing up good governance or transparent government groups are bringing up, is that these documents now if they're Trump's and Trump's alone and not government records that have to be preserved, they could be deleted, destroyed, burned at any moment. And so there is a judge now looking at this and said in court, this judge in the D.C. District Court said today this will matter, quote, "if he does something with them now."

TAPPER: Bigger picture, what is the Justice Department saying about the president holding on to records from this term? POLANTZ: Yes. So this has been a major change that's happened internally with a couple of memos in the Trump administration. After Watergate, the Presidential Records Act was a law that Congress said you can't delete records at will, you have to preserve them. There's all kinds of processes around what the White House does with its records.

TAPPER: Right.

POLANTZ: The White House counsel's office and Justice Department says Congress didn't have the ability to do that. We're going to set our own policy. In court today they were saying, what we've decided is basically the same thing as what that law had said. But actually it's not this new guidance it sets out that White House staff should not must preserve records. So there's no consequence if they don't necessarily.

It also says that it doesn't say anything about records held by the president or created by the president or the vice president. So things that Donald Trump might create on his personal phone, say, in sending, I don't know, a text message or calling a reporter or any of the number of things the president might do to create his own records, those get to be his own. It also doesn't contemplate electronic messages like Signal chats, which we've heard about in this administration.

TAPPER: Oh, boy. All right, Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, what you don't know about U.S. Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch from personal interviews, tons of research. I'm going to talk with a podcast creator who calls Gorsuch the most unpredictable and most important sitting U.S. Supreme Court justice.

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[17:33:00]

TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, President Trump is reckoning with his feelings about U.S. Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch as the highest court in the land prepares to wrap up its term. The president wrote this weekend, quote, I quote, love Justice Neil Gorsuch. He's a really smart and good man, but he voted against me and our country on tariffs, a devastating move. How do I reconcile this? Unquote.

Well, the newest season of Slate's Slow Burn podcast argues that Gorsuch is the biggest wild card among the court's conservative majority. And the podcast traces the evolution of his thinking decades back. Here, for example, is a doormate of his from Columbia University.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LIZ PLESHETTE, ATTENDED COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY WITH JUSTICE GORSUCH: Even if he was vehemently arguing with you, it was laced with such civility and tight manners and politeness that you could be fooled into thinking that this is someone who is coming to the venture with loads of respect.

SUSAN MATTHEWS, SLATE EXECUTIVE EDITOR: But you knew that wasn't the case.

PLESHETTE: Oh, no, no. I always felt like Neil could pull off his face and underneath would be like some horrible, scary alien.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TAPPER: That's pretty vivid. Host and Slate's executive editor Susan Matthews joins us now. Susan, quite a quote. Most Americans probably do not have as concrete of an idea of Gorsuch's personality and views as they might some of the other justices. He's still relatively new.

Give us some context for the clip we just played there and what you've come to understand about Neil Gorsuch, the person?

MATTHEWS: Yes, definitely. I mean, I think that a lot of people know what kind of person Neil Gorsuch is. He's really buttoned up. He's a polished guy, but he's kind of this person who loves to debate, he loves to push buttons, and he's really good at staying emotionally above the fray.

Someone told me that there's a certain type of guy who loves to debate abortion with liberal women, and I think that is Neil Gorsuch.

[17:35:00]

TAPPER: In the first episode, you focus on how Gorsuch's mother's tenure, Anne Gorsuch, as EPA administrator in the Reagan administration really shaped him in so many ways. Here's how Slate's legal correspondent describes it.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MARK JOSEPH STERN, SLATE LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: He's obsessed with dismantling the administrative states. He's obsessed with federal agencies that the headless fourth branch of government and this idea that they wield all this power without any democratic legitimacy. And so he's constantly trying to diminish their power and to give the president greater control over them.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, look, obviously a lot of conservatives feel that way about the bureaucracy without having had a personal experience that might have shaped it. But remind us what happened to his mother, Anne Gorsuch Burford that greatly shaped her son's judicial philosophy in some in some critics views.

MATTHEWS: Yes, certainly. So, Anne Gorsuch Burford she says that she's practicing Reaganism before Reagan. She eventually goes to Washington when Neil is just 15 years old and she's appointed the head of the EPA. She asks for the job not because she loves the environment. She asks for the job because the EPA is new at the time and she thinks that the person who runs it will have a lot of power. So she gets in charge and she starts slashing the budget and firing

people and replacing them with people within the industry. And ultimately she ends up in this scandal where she becomes the first member to the first Cabinet head ever to be held in contempt by Congress. She has to resign after two years on the job.

And Neil is watching this all in D.C. and it obviously affects him. He follows his mother's principles. I think here he's very conservative like her. He's very against the administrative state. But I think that he watched what happened to her, and he takes a very different approach, personally and interpersonally with how he deals with the press and all kinds of things.

TAPPER: Justice Gorsuch spoke to CBS News this past weekend in a rare interview. I want to get your thoughts on this one exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does a justice owe a president loyalty?

NEIL GORSUCH, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, my loyalty is the Constitution and laws of the United States. That's the oath I took. It's really just that simple.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: How do you think about that statement and reconcile it with what you've learned about him in the course of your reporting?

MATTHEWS: Yes. So this is actually one of the reasons why Neil Gorsuch is such a wild card. He has a very principled view towards this theory of the law called originalism, which we get into a lot more on the show. But he does strongly hold this belief. And he follows this way of reading the law to such an extreme that he doesn't always end up in a conservative point of view. That's why he's the wild card. He's made very liberal rulings on both gay rights and on Native American law.

And so I think it's fair to say that he does definitely think that his loyalty is to the Constitution and that is what he's trying to do on the bench.

TAPPER: So the court has yet to announce decisions on a few cases this term. Among the decisions we're waiting for birthright citizenship. President Trump obviously paying close attention to that. Do you have any thought of how Gorsuch might rule, or is he a wild card?

MATTHEWS: Well, I think that what we're seeing right now is that Justice Gorsuch has only been on the bench for just about 10 years. He has a lifetime appointment. And he understands that his legal career and his legacy is going to be determined well after President Trump is no longer President Trump.

And so I think that most legal experts who are looking at this think that the court is going to rule against Trump in birthright citizenship. I think that Gorsuch is going to be a huge part of that. And I think that is one of the things that we're watching. TAPPER: He is one of the most interesting Supreme Court justices that we've had in a long, long time. Susan Matthews, thank you so much for joining us. And the podcast, of course, Slow Burn, thanks so much. Good to see you.

Coming up next, the new questions and a lack of answers from the Trump administration about a particular no bid contract for one of President Trump's newest projects, renovating the reflecting pool on the National Mall.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:43:30]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead today, Interior Secretary Doug Burgum fielded questions from lawmakers about the cost of some of President Trump's pet projects, including renovations to the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOE NEGUSE (D-CO): My understanding of the federal procurement rules is that a no bid contract is reserved for situations where, quote, any delay would cause serious injury to the government. What is your proposition? Is what that -- there'd be serious injury to the government if this company didn't get the $13 million contract to do this particular project right now?

SEC. DOUG BURGUM, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR: Well, I think we do have a sense of urgency. I mean, we got handed a record amount of deferred maintenance. We had 19 fountains across the city that didn't work --

NEGUSE: That's the serious injury to the government?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: My panel joins me now. Governor Hutchinson, 19 fountains not working. Probably not what the lawmakers had in mind when they said serious injury. Right.

ASA HUTCHINSON, FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR: You could certainly argue that. The fact is this is going to be judged as to whether this actually improves the reflecting pool or not.

TAPPER: Yes.

HUTCHINSON: And I thought Secretary Burgum handled the questions fine. I don't think it's a great concern out there. It's not the -- and I do like coming to Washington, D.C. and seeing some of the improvements that are made. Might not like all of them, but I sure like it whenever you, you know, have a cleaner city and a better looking city for international visitors.

TAPPER: Maria, there are probably a lot of Americans out there who are like, well, good for President Trump cutting through the red tape. Who cares? It just needs to look good. And I hate all the bureaucracy.

[17:45:05]

MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I bet you there are more Americans out there who are worried about the fact that they can't make ends meet, that they see how much money the government is spending on a ballroom that nobody needed or wanted, on a war in Iran that nobody needed or wanted, on the reflecting pool, on an arc for Donald Trump, on the Trump Kennedy Center, on putting his face on the dollar bill.

And I think this is part of what Donald Trump's poll numbers are reflecting, why they are so low and why Americans believe that 70, 75 percent of Americans believe that his policies are actually responsible for the high cost of living, which, as you know very well, is the number one issue facing families.

TAPPER: Do you disagree? I mean, whether or not you agree with him on the reflecting pool or the ballroom, do you disagree that the President sometimes seems distracted on things that are not about improving daily lives for the American people?

HUTCHINSON: Well, I certainly agree that that's the number one issue out there.

TAPPER: Yes.

HUTCHINSON: You know, the pocketbook issues, the affordability, the gas prices, those have to be addressed. President Trump is trying to figure out answers that as well. Hopefully, the Iran war is not going to be long term, and you see those prices go down.

But I also think it's just amazing, almost impressive, that he can do so many things at the same time. And it surprises me that he focuses on a reflecting pool or a half a dozen different issues. But he has that broad interest. And I want him obviously focused on the meeting with President Xi that's coming up.

TAPPER: Sure.

HUTCHINSON: I think that's where his mind is now. But clearly he wants to make America proud of our country, our nation's capital, and that's a big focus of what he's doing.

TAPPER: Maria, are you happy with what the Democrats are presenting as an alternative? Because, honestly, like, I remember when Pelosi led the charge to take back the House in 2006 and 2018, and both times there were, like, catchy phrases and like, 10 for this, you know, whatever. I don't remember.

CARDONA: The agenda. Right.

TAPPER: There were agendas.

CARDONA: Yes. TAPPER: Here are the four things we're doing, not unlike the contract for America in 1994. Here are the 10 things we're going to do, et cetera.

CARDONA: Right.

TAPPER: I don't know what the Democrats are running on other than Donald Trump. Everything you just said, which is, here are all the things Trump's doing wrong. But is there -- is there a positive agenda that I'm missing?

CARDONA: There is, and I do think that it needs to be highlighted more and more often. And what you're seeing is, or where you're seeing it, Jake, is in the very specific campaigns that are running. And that's why you are seeing Democrats have been winning special elections and elections in general because they are speaking to those issues that their voters care about. They are focused on alternatives, on how to bring down costs.

They are focused on how to protect communities that feel attacked by ICE. And they are shining the light on all of these other things that Trump is doing. Because, Governor, you're right, he is doing a lot. But you know what he's not doing? He's not focused on Americans' financial situations.

In fact, he said, and I quote, I am not worried and I'm not thinking about Americans' financial situations. Well, the Democrats are going to continue to shine a light on that.

HUTCHINSON: Well, of course he's worried about Iran having a nuclear weapon. And that's what he's trying to address. He does have to take care of the challenge that we have with the Strait of Hormuz and make sure the oil will be able to flow through there to get the prices down. That's a challenge he has to face.

But he's dealing with a serious issue there and he's trying to address the affordability issue as well, whether it's reducing the gas tax, which might not get through Congress. But he's obviously by expressing his concern on that and looking for solutions, he understands that Americans are hurting right now.

But if you're going to win in November, you got to address those local issues, affordability.

TAPPER: Yes.

HUTCHINSON: And Republicans have to be in a better position in November this year.

TAPPER: Speaking of elections, there are a lot of Republicans who were 2020 election deniers who are strong contenders to become governors. They include Mike Lindell in Minnesota, Arizona Congressman Andy Biggs, Georgia Lieutenant Governor Burt Jones. We have a little map there of a bunch of them.

What does this take tell you about the state of the Republican Party and Trump's grip on the party? Because some of them are actually the fact that they're -- if they emerge as the nominees, probably going to hurt the Republican Party's ability to win those seats. Not in Georgia per se, but certainly in Minnesota.

HUTCHINSON: Well, I know who won the 2020 election, but that is almost ancient history compared to the challenges affordability that we see today. And you have these gubernatorial candidates, if they're going to win, they're not going to address 2020. That's in the rearview mirror.

[17:50:00]

They're going to be talking about the issues that are important for governors to get elected and that's who's going to win the primaries and that's what they're going to have to do whenever they run in November. Governors, I've been one. You have to be a problem solver.

My governors talk about maternal health care on national news, addressing that issue, talking about the affordability, lowering taxes, helping the economy go forward. That's how you win as governor. And I think that's what you're going to see.

TAPPER: Are you worried? Because if any of these people win, and many of them could, they will be in the governor's mansions for the 2028 election.

CARDONA: Very worried. And Democrats need to be very worried about it. And Americans need to be very worried about it, which is why you know this very well. Campaigns for governors are so important. And I think that Democrats are going to continue to focus on this because exactly what you said, Jake. If they win come 2028, they're going to have so much power over what happens in the electoral process. Those two candidates that you mentioned, Jones and Biggs, were part of the electorate -- the fake electoral scheme of 2020. And that's of huge concern and it should continue to be for Americans.

TAPPER: In terms of 2028, Vice President Vance was asked about his ambitions in 2020. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JD VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Oh, man. What I think is I -- there are a few topics that I want to talk about less than what office I'm going to run for years down the road.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What do you think of Vance's chances? Do you think he's the best chance Republicans have to hold the White House?

HUTCHINSON: I think he's marginally ahead right now at this point, but there's so much time left. I think Marco Rubio is in a very good position as well. They both want to suppress this entire conversation. Obviously, after the elections this November, it will start in earnest. It is unavoidable and it will be unavoidable for them. I think it will be wide open on the Republican side. I don't think

you're going to see a repeat of the same direction of the Republican Party as we've taken in the last --

TAPPER: Three elections.

HUTCHINSON: Yes, three election cycles.

TAPPER: Very quickly, one word. Who would you rather run against in the Republican Party? Who is your least favorite?

CARDONA: I think Democrats want to run against J.D. Vance because he is less liked, if that's possible, than Donald Trump.

TAPPER: All right, thanks, everyone. Today in Italy, Princess Catherine is making her first overseas trip since her cancer diagnosis. The greeting and what the palace is saying about her recovery. Royal correspondent Max Foster is traveling with the princess and we're going to go to him next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:56:57]

TAPPER: In our World Lead, Princess of Wales Catherine is conducting her first ceremonial visit in years. Right now her trip to Reggio Emilia, Italy marks her first overseas royal visit since being diagnosed with cancer more than two years ago.

CNN's Max Foster is in Italy where he got an up close look at the Princess's recovery journey.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chants echoing of Ciao Kate as the Princess starts her comeback tour in northern Italy. Her first official overseas trip since undergoing cancer treatment. Thousands cramming into the piazza at Reggio Emilia to welcome her.

FOSTER: Princess greeting all the well wishes that turned out here in Italy, a princess coming to town doesn't happen every day. So much excitement about that. She has been in recovery of course from her cancer treatment. So this is a huge moment for her, the palace saying she's trying to balance her public work with her recovery.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has been an honor to meet her.

FOSTER: What was your reaction when she came over?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's amazing. I can't believe it with my eyes.

FOSTER (voice-over): The Princess is here to learn about the internationally recognized Reggio Approach, a philosophy of early childhood education built around creativity, relationships and hands on discovery.

FOSTER: What did you just talk about with the Princess?

MARWA MAHMOUD, COUNCILOR FOR EDUCATION POLICIES, MUNICIPALITY OF REGGIOL: I talk about the approach. I talk about our integrative, inclusive public system.

FOSTER (voice-over): Palace aides describe this trip as an important step in the Princess's recovery journey, adding that she takes great joy from this work. The visit also marks Catherine's first official trip to Italy, a country she previously spent time in before university. Though she admitted she needed to do work on her Italian.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The way she has approached the city and the experience shows a real interest. Not just something the facade, but something deep, which is incredible.

FOSTER (voice-over): The Princess believes early learning should be creative and prioritized in the same way as climate change.

CHRISTIAN GUY, ROYAL FOUNDATION CENTER FOR EARLY CHILDHOOD: She wants to point people to the importance of those first five years and to work with others to make this a truly global, urgent issue. So it's on the par with climate because unless we tackle this properly, we'll always be playing catch up.

FOSTER (voice-over): This is a global mission for someone coming back to the world stage with renewed vigor after a life changing health event.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: So Jake, I've been reporting on getting Kate actually since 2011 when she joined the Royal family. She wasn't always comfortable with this spotlight that she lives in, but I have to say I've never seen her as energized as she was today, which is extraordinary considering what she's been through. She's still recovering, but I think she's actually just found an issue that she wants to spotlight, she can spotlight.

And she genuinely thinks that in those early years when the brain is forming, you can resolve so many issues later on. This all comes -- already started when she's found out about addiction and you can solve addiction if you don't have the problems early on. So it's been quite interesting to see her evolve.

[18:00:05]

TAPPER: All right, Max Foster in Italy, thanks so much.