Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Life on the Cruise After the Hantavirus Outbreak; Writer Shares Text with Scientist on Board Hantavirus-Hit Ship; Alex Murdaugh's Double Murder Convictions Overturned; Interview with Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI); World Food Programme Says Iran War Could Plunge Millions into Acute Hunger. Rep. Lawler Describes Antisemitic Insults From Sen. Paul's Son; Man Free From ICE Custody After Community Campaigns For Release. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 13, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: -- solve addiction if you don't have the problems early on. So it's been quite interesting to see her evolve.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Max Foster in Italy, thanks so much.

Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour a legal shocker. A court overturning the murder convictions of Alex Murdaugh, the South Carolina lawyer found guilty of killing his wife and son. How soon could a new trial happen?

Plus, former President Obama jumping into the political fray in Texas, backing the U.S. Senate candidate whom Democrats say could flip the state. Could the big name finally drag the current president, Donald Trump, into that race?

Also, Cindy McCain will be here on THE LEAD. The urgent plea she needs you to hear about the food supply around the world as she prepares to leave the World Food Programme.

But first, incredible insights into what life was like aboard that cruise ship as passengers learned of an outbreak of hantavirus.

THE LEAD tonight, an inside look at life on board and right now for passengers of the MV Hondius cruise ship amid the deadly hantavirus outbreak. In moments, you're going to hear some fascinating new details of what it was like on board that ship as things got worse and worse.

Here in the U.S., Dr. Stephen Kornfeld is now identified as the passenger inside the biocontainment unit at the University of Nebraska Medical Center. He revealed more about the possible spread on the ship last night to CNN's Erin Burnett.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. STEPHEN KORNFELD, PASSENGER INSIDE NEBRASKA BIOCONTAINMENT UNIT: Early in April, maybe the 10th or so, a number of us on board came down with felt like a flu-like illness or the ship's flu. Now, in retrospect, there is a question, could it have been hantavirus?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The CDC now says Kornfeld's case is considered inconclusive after he tested positive and then negative. There are no new confirmed cases as of now, according to updates from the World Health Organization and the CDC today. 11 individuals have tested positive, including the three passengers who unfortunately died last month.

The CDC encourages 15 other passengers from the U.S. to remain at the University of Nebraska's National Quarantine Unit for the next six weeks. Two other passengers are at Emory University Hospital in Georgia. One is symptomatic but is testing negative, the other, a close contact of that. The other one is not showing any symptoms.

Dr. Jodie Guest from Emory University's Department of Epidemiology joins me now.

Dr. Guest, no new cases reported today. What's your reaction?

DR. JODIE GUEST, EMORY UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR: Yes, that is great news. I don't know that we can count on that being consistent every day from here on out given the long incubation period. But we'll take it for today.

TAPPER: What do you make of the development that the mildly positive case in the U.S., the passenger in the Nebraska biocontainment containment unit, Dr. Stephen Kornfeld, is now being called inconclusive because officials are waiting more test results for him? He tested positive then he tested negative.

GUEST: Yes, all tests can have a certain number of false positives or even false negatives. It also is about when you're tested in your viral syndrome period. And so we really don't have a lot of information on that. But we do know that tests can be inaccurate. And that is why we do repeat tests. So at the moment, we don't really know the status of that patient.

TAPPER: Is there anything you can share with us about the current status of the two individuals being monitored at Emory University Hospital?

GUEST: I cannot. I'm not part of their care team, but they -- I can tell you that the care team at Emory is excellent and well-trained for this and a great place to be in a situation like this.

TAPPER: Meanwhile, across the U.S., health officials are monitoring other individuals who may have been exposed, either from being on the cruise or being on international flights with passengers. This is taking place in nine states. The CDC says anyone who's being -- who has been exposed is being encouraged to take a PCR test. Is a PCR test for hantavirus similar to one for COVID-19?

GUEST: It is. It's the same kind of test, but it's very specific to the hantavirus.

TAPPER: How many times would you recommend an exposed individual be tested over the next six weeks?

GUEST: You know, the incubation period is 42 days and the testing is actually still -- research testing is not available clinically anywhere in the world. So there are only specialty units that can do it, and they are creating the protocols to follow these groups of individuals. We've not seen this many people need to be tested in quite some time. And so hantavirus experts will be dealing with how often they will get their PCR tests.

TAPPER: Do you have any idea, just as a rough estimate, would it be daily? Would it be, you know, weekly? What kind of testing protocol are we talking about?

GUEST: It won't be that often. And most important will be the symptom tracking. We are looking multiple times a day at each one of those individuals that are under suspicion or isolation or containment in a quarantine zone to see if they have any onset of symptoms.

[18:05:10]

That will be a very fast turnover to want to get a test after they distribute -- show any level of symptoms. But at the moment, the good news is none of them are showing them. They're all asymptomatic.

TAPPER: For some of the individuals being monitored by state health departments for possible exposure, not -- nothing conclusive. I'm not talking about the people in Nebraska or at Emory. What is likely their isolation guidance, given they likely don't have negative air pressure or the other conditions that the hospitals do? Should they just live their lives as they normally would?

GUEST: No. They are under quarantine and they are in contact with state and local health departments. And that quarantine looks like multiple times a day taking your temperature and talking to someone through telehealth and tracking your onset of symptoms if you have any, or the lack of symptoms, which, again, all of them are currently displaying, and making sure that you're not going out in the public and being in close contact with anyone other than those who are maybe isolating in the home with you.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Jodie Guest, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it.

A scientist on board the cruise, the MV Hondius, was messaging a writer from "The New Yorker" with details about the outbreak as it was unfolding in real time, like the reaction when the captain first made the announcement that would change everything. The passenger had died. Quote, "We are literally in the middle of the South Atlantic, as far from land as possible," the scientist wrote at the time. "It's really an unfortunate place to die. The only logical place to go is Tristan da Cunha, which is about two and a half days away. Everybody thinks this man had a heart attack or some preexisting condition. Nobody thought this was an infectious disease."

Joining us now is the writer who turned all these messages into a fascinating piece to "The New Yorker," Akash Kapur.

Akash, what was your reaction when the scientists first told you about the first death and then the subsequent deaths?

AKASH KAPUR, CONTRIBUTOR, THE NEW YORKER: Yes. I mean, it was a real drip, drip, drip of news coming out there. And I think it's important to realize that it wasn't until very late that they realized that this was, you know, actually hantavirus. And part of the -- part of what he told me is he's been on these types of expeditions before. He says it's very normal to have bugs and for people to be sick.

And so they were, I mean, you know, they were noticing that more and more people are getting sick. But they just had no idea that it was anything serious. And then at a certain point, you know, I think it's the third patient gets tested in, I believe it was Johannesburg and the message comes back that it's hantavirus and then everything just changes on the ship.

TAPPER: Yes. It was just an absolutely fascinating story. The one gentleman dies and they think it's horrible, but people die. Happens to all of us. Then his wife dies and he writes about broken heart syndrome. And then the third person gets it. He told you on May 2nd after the third death, and another person on the ship with symptoms, there's finally this announcement that it's a hantavirus outbreak.

The scientists said, quote, "All of us look up hanta and realize this has up to a 40 percent death rate. People really sober up, but there's no panic. Everyone has masks and stays away from each other. But it's not like you hear cries in the corner. Everybody keeps saying we are literally in the same boat. Gallows humor," unquote.

It seems like the reality of the situation, however, didn't sink in until later. Was that the case?

KAPUR: Yes. I mean, I think, you know, one thing I noticed is, as I was messaging and speaking with him, the mood, I mean, you know, the mood was even after they found out it was hantavirus, they weren't panicking. They were -- they were distancing. They were masking. They were isolating. There was not a huge amount of, I mean, I don't want to underplay it, but there wasn't a huge amount of anxiety and stress at that point.

Partly they have -- they have doctors on board from the WHO and other places telling them, look, you know, this is a hard disease to get. The mood in my, you know, experience with him really changed actually when they get to the Canary Islands and Tenerife and then they start seeing all the press crew outside and they start realizing that this has become a bit of a political thing, that the evacuation itself is controversial. So that was the first sort of sign of like anxiety that I heard in his voice. TAPPER: The scientist messaged you this while on the runway in

Tenerife, quote, "This is the most historic thing I've experienced. It is not a history I want to be a part of. But we have no choice," unquote.

Have you been able to speak with the scientists since he returned to his home country about how he is feeling about everything and about another stretch of quarantine?

[18:10:01]

KAPUR: Yes. I have been in touch with him. And, you know, we had to fact-check the piece for "The New Yorker" as well. And so we have been in touch. And I mean, you know, he's dealing with -- he tested negative and he's watching this play out. He's dealing with he's going to be in quarantine. He's going to be in isolation. I think there -- I think that the feeling is, you know, we're still watching this thing play out. Let's see where it goes.

He very much keeps emphasizing how professional the crew was and how well the crew handled it, and he sort of wants that message out there. But, yes, for the moment he's kind of watching it like we all are, except that he's in isolation and has had a negative test, which, you know, is a good thing.

TAPPER: Well, it's a fascinating story you can read on NewYorker.com or at "The New Yorker" if you get the magazine.

Akash Kapur, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it.

KAPUR: Thanks.

TAPPER: Next, the shocking ruling today from the South Carolina Supreme Court. Why Alex Murdaugh, convicted of killing his wife and his son, will get a new trial. And the, quote, "antisemitic diatribe," unquote, that a Republican lawmaker says was hurled at him from the adult son of Senator Rand Paul.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our "Law and Justice Lead" today, in Utah a judge sentenced Kouri Richins to life in prison without parole.

[18:15:06]

The mother of three convicted of fatally poisoning her husband in 2022, then writing a children's book about grief. I mean, that is just too much. Richins also was found guilty of insurance fraud and attempted aggravated murder for a previous unsuccessful attempt to kill her husband. The judge today said, quote, "A person convicted of those things is simply too dangerous to ever be free."

Also, in our "Law and Justice Lead" a stunning decision today in South Carolina may set the stage for a sequel to that popular Hulu drama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JASON CLARKE, ACTOR, "MURDAUGH: DEATH IN THE FAMILY": I would never hurt Maggie Murdaugh. I would never hurt Paul Murdaugh under any circumstances.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You say that. But you lied to Maggie, didn't you?

CLARKE: Yes, I did lie to her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You lied to Paul.

CLARKE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So a scene there from season one of Hulu's "Murdaugh: Death in the Family." But today, South Carolina's top court overturned the murder convictions of Alex Murdaugh and ordered a new trial. Prosecutors say Murdaugh killed his wife and son in 2021. Today, the court found, quote, "shocking jury interference" by a court clerk who oversaw jurors in the 2023 trial.

Here now is CNN's chief legal analyst and author, and my friend, Laura Coates.

Thank you so much for being here. So I know you followed every twist of the case.

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

TAPPER: First of all, was there a jury interference? Was this the right call by the -- forgetting his guilt or innocence or whatever, was this the right call by the South Carolina Supreme Court?

COATES: Well, yes, because they say this is not about guilt or innocence. They're not actually looking at that. They want everyone to have, as is your right in the Constitution, an impartial jury, but someone has their thumbs on the scale or in this case, the fingers. Somebody who's in charge of logistics, somebody who is working with the jurors, and even the person who read the actual guilty verdict is saying things to you as you go out as a jury, hey, watch his body language and don't fall for it. Don't be fooled by what he's saying.

That might have an undue influence. And by the way, she also resigned from her position. She wrote a book. They said that she was using government resources and beyond to do a -- or promote it in other ways. And so somebody with that credibility was hoping to capitalize on something that is supposed to be part of our civic duty.

TAPPER: So you're talking about the clerk of the court, Rebecca Hill, and the judge's opinion notes that Hill placed her fingers on the scales of justice?

COATES: Yes.

TAPPER: Not just a thumb there, by denying Murdaugh his right to a fair trial. Now, since his conviction, the Murdaugh murders have been the subject of over 10 books, won a "New York Times" best-seller, that's streaming TV mini-series on Hulu, a Netflix docu-series. Is it even possible at this point to find an impartial jury for a retrial?

COATES: The prosecution hopes so because they're going to retry this case. Double jeopardy has not attached in the way you normally would think. I've already tried you for this. I have an outcome. I can't touch it again. This is appellate reasons to bring it back down. And so they want there to be an impartial jury. But it's not somebody who's never heard of the case. It's not about the notoriety. It's about whether somebody can follow the instructions the court will give about how to evaluate the evidence, how to assess the various claims and the evidence they're going to bring back, again, Jake, are largely the same.

You're going to have data about ballistics. You're going to have data about phone technology. You're going to have his shifting stories and beyond. But here is why it's harder for the prosecution this time around. The element of surprise is gone. I've had to give you my entire trial. I would be furious as the prosecution, not because I did anything wrong, but because my clerk somehow wanted to write a book about something that I got to try a six-week trial again.

And this time I got fading memories. This time you have the defense team who knows every single thing I'm going to do and can compare the last trial transcripts to whatever they're going to say next time. It's a harder case.

TAPPER: Yes, I was going to say, is there anything that you think that the defense will have a leg up on because they know exactly the case that the prosecution is going to bring.

COATES: All of that, plus the Supreme Court in South Carolina also said it wasn't just the clerk, it was also the use of so much financial crimes evidence. That they felt was overly prejudicial and the trial jury should have limited the amount that they could have actually seen through the judge. This time around now the defense can say, OK, well, I know that the prosecution before wanted to say that the motive was financial.

There was a gathering storm, and he had to kill these two people because of what was ahead financially for embezzlement and other things. Now, I know they can't use all of that. Now I can sort of erode those sort of motive based evidentiary claims. So I've got a leg up there. But still, he's always professed his innocence. He has said it does not make sense that I had a gathering storm ahead that's why I killed my wife and son.

He says, I'm innocent. But don't expect him to walk free anytime soon. Because even though this is a retrial and somebody who has convictions overturned, he's still serving time for those financial crimes and that's decades long.

TAPPER: OK. Laura Coates, fascinating stuff.

[18:20:01]

And don't forget to join Laura on her show, "LAURA COATES LIVE." It's tonight and every weeknight at 11:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

Coming up on THE LEAD, a Republican senator from America's heartland on the soaring cost of gas and diesel in his state.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our "Money Lead," yet another sign that the war with Iran is having a huge hit on the American economy, today's wholesale inflation report for American businesses jumped to the highest rate in nearly four years. It's now 6 percent. This means consumers could be hit with higher prices at a time when inflation is already eroding Americans' paychecks.

The Iran war is also causing a surging price for diesel, a crucial fuel for the U.S. economy. The average price of diesel is now the highest it's ever been in four Midwestern states, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin. Diesel, of course, a crucial fuel for the American economy. It powers tractors, trucks, busses, boats, trains.

[18:25:04]

Republican Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin joins us now to discuss this and other issues.

Senator, diesel is up 82 percent in Wisconsin from a year ago. 82 percent. Now, $5.87 a gallon. Realistically, can farmers in Wisconsin and those who rely on diesel tolerate these prices and still make a profit this year?

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): Well, it's going to be tough. I'll just remind your viewers that in June of 2022 because of Democrat policies, their war on fossil fuel, average gasoline prices nationwide were $5 a gallon. The reason they're high now is because President Trump made a very difficult decision to make sure that Iran would never become a nuclear power.

If you want to see a ruined economy, let the ayatollahs have a nuclear weapon. Put it on a missile, on a barge off of our shore, throw it up, you know, launch it over our country, exploding the atmosphere, have an EMP event and wipe out our electrical grid. That is the existential threat that those crazy, evil ayatollahs represented to us. And Trump finally took care of it.

Every president said they couldn't be nuclear power. Trump decided to make sure that didn't happen. Again, not easy. There's no guarantee here. But I, for one, support him ending that war for all time.

TAPPER: Well, I don't know when it's going to end. And meanwhile, so many Americans are so worried about their financial situations. I understand your argument about a hypothetical, theoretical nuclear armed Iran, but American consumers are not feeling that excuse as sufficient for their hardship, as I'm sure you hear all the time from your voters.

Some of them told us, quote, "My life is not affordable. No one cares." Another one said, "It's more expensive to exist." Another said, you're just staying afloat instead of getting ahead." Another said, "It should not be like this."

Now before Trump left for China, a reporter asked him what was the extent to which Americans' financial hardships was motivating him to make a deal with Iran. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The only thing that matters when I'm talking about Iran, they can't have a nuclear weapon. I don't think about Americans' financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I think about one thing. We cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, I understand the president is not just thinking about the nuclear weapon, but do you think Americans' financial situation should play more of a role when it comes to his decision to end this war?

JOHNSON: No. No, I don't. Again, I believe, I've always believed that Iran pose an existential threat to America. It became a nuclear power. The fact that they won't even give up their nuclear ambitions now after we bombed the you-know-what out of them just underscores the point that you cannot trust these people.

All that Iran had to do to have us leave them alone is just stop enriching uranium, turn over their stocks, and vowing to become a nuclear power. They wouldn't do that. They're still not doing that. So, no, I understand the pain. I'd be interested to see how many stories you held back in June of 2022 about the pain of $5 a gallon gasoline, but set that aside. I appreciate President Trump's leadership here.

This is a tough decision. It was not going to be easy, but imagine what the world is going to look like if we could put the ayatollahs on the dustbin of history. I mean, the positive impact on world peace and, you know, the Mideast region is going to be stabilized for generations. I, for one, am hoping President Trump succeeds. And I don't want to in any way, shape or form dissuade him from finishing the job.

That would be the worst thing, is to declare a false peace and have the ayatollahs remain there as a menace. You know, being able to hold the Strait of Hormuz hostage. We can't allow that to happen so we have to finish the job.

TAPPER: We covered inflation during the Biden years quite a bit.

Let's turn to another subject I know you want to talk about. During a Senate hearing earlier today, you heard from a CIA whistleblower who accused intelligence officials and specifically Dr. Anthony Fauci of downplaying the possibility that the origins of COVID came from a Chinese lab. Dr. Fauci declined to comment when we reached out to him to respond to the hearing you held.

But I think it's fair to say that the most objective assessment of the situation is that there continue to be highly respected evolutionary biologists reporting in respected peer reviewed journals who suggest, though nothing is proven, that they continue to think it was a natural spillover from an animal reservoir. Now, I might disagree. You might disagree, but it seems like there's still lots of opinions but no definitive proof one way or the other. A CIA spokesperson called this hearing nothing more than dishonest political theater, and that the CIA had already assessed COVID-19 most likely originated from a lab leak. Efforts to undermine the conclusion are disingenuous.

So this is Trump's CIA saying this. What was your reaction to that?

JOHNSON: Well, first of all, what we learned, we already knew or certainly suspected, but it just confirmed what we knew or suspected. You go back to the end of January, early February, when you see Fauci assembling this group of people who are probably still saying, well, this might have sprung from nature.

[18:30:02]

They're all people he'd given millions and millions of dollars of grants to. And those are the same people he assembled in the center of the CIA. But I'll tell you the story I really want you to cover. I sent you this report just as I'm standing here is the major scandal we uncovered in my committee two weeks ago about how the FDA on March 1st, 2021 knew that their safety surveillance system was going to hide in mask serious safety signals on serious adverse events.

Twenty-six days later, they were shown the safety signals on things like sudden cardiac death, pulmonary infarction, Bell's palsy, other types of strokes. They continue to use the system that they knew hid these signals. That's what we ought to have me on. The mainstream media is completely covering this up. I'm calling out the mainstream media, start covering this major, major scandal.

TAPPER: Senator, I mean, I see you sent this to me at 6:22.

JOHNSON: No, no, I'm not -- I'm saying have me on in the future. You know, I was invited on last week. I sent the -- I sent it --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: No --

JOHNSON: Your producers canceled it. But not to you, not to you, to somebody else in CNN. But no, not ABC, not NBC, not CBS. None of the major news stories are covering this major scandal. I'm giving you an opportunity to be the lead on CNN. Cover this, read that report.

TAPPER: OK.

JOHNSON: Read that report and have me back on.

TAPPER: All right. Well, I'll read the report. But like I said, you just sent it to me.

JOHNSON: I -- no. TAPPER: I'm not going to be rude to my guest.

JOHNSON: Not blaming you. Not blaming you.

TAPPER: You and read your --

JOHNSON: Not blaming at all.

TAPPER: And read your text message during the interview but Republican --

JOHNSON: I'm not blaming you, I realize it. I'm just asking you to have me back on.

TAPPER: OK. All right. Well, I'm sure we will. We have you on quite often and we'll have you on again.

Republican Senator Ron Johnson of the great state of Wisconsin, thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

JOHNSON: Take care.

TAPPER: Cindy McCain is coming up next. Her urgent plea about the world's food supply and how it's directly impacted by the war with Iran.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:48]

TAPPER: In our "World Lead," with the continued blockage of the Strait of Hormuz by the Iranians, the global food supply is under tremendous pressure. About a third of the world's fertilizer needed to grow crops, of course, passes through that waterway. According to the United Nations World Food Programme, the fallout from the Iran war could push 45 million additional people into hunger, hitting Africa and Asia the hardest.

Here to discuss is the executive director of the World Food Programme, Cindy McCain.

Cindy, it's so good to see you. Thank you so much for being here.

So the World Food Programme, your organization forecasted if this conflict doesn't end by next month, by June, and we're now in May, the millions of people far beyond the front lines are going to face hunger. Two-thirds of those people being in either Asia or Africa. How is the World Food Programme preparing? Because honestly, frankly, that looks likely.

CINDY MCCAIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME: Well, our estimates would be about 45 million more people will be in hunger, severe hunger status. We do exactly what we do. This is our job. We prepare. We have people on the ground. We have people in various parts, you know, where we're trying to figure out not just when this occurs, but where the flow of people will go also, because that's the other element of this. Where there's no food, they're going to walk.

TAPPER: Right. Leads migration crisis.

MCCAIN: Yes, it's a huge crisis. Yes.

TAPPER: So the conflict started at a time where funding for operations at the World Food Programme already failing to keep up with the pace of humanitarian needs. So how have you already adjusted for this situation?

MCCAIN: Well, not just for this situation, but all situations. It was clear to me when I came into WFP that we needed to scale down. There was not going to be the kind of money that had been there before. Plus, we were fat. We needed to rearrange, realign, do things better more efficiently. And so that's exactly what we've done. We're through that. We've had -- I've had to let people go as well. But we're through all of that now. And we're a much better run organization.

And what we do in the field, we push everything we have to the field so that the field is equipped to do their jobs. Again, it's still not enough right now.

TAPPER: Over the last three years, you've led the World Food Programme through extraordinary times. You were among the first prominent voices to warn of a full blown famine in northern Gaza. You have continuously sounded the alarm on the crisis in Sudan. You've also steered the organization through the deep funding shortfalls that we discussed. And honestly, an increasingly dangerous, unpredictable operating environment.

What do you hope to see next for the organization, and what do you hope your legacy will be?

MCCAIN: Well, what I hope to see next is a world beginning to understand the need, not just for WFP, but aid agencies like ours. And do something about it. Help us politically. Help us diplomatically so that we can get our job done.

When you start targeting humanitarian aid workers, which is exactly what's happened, I'm sure you saw what happened just the other day where one of our trucks was hit by a drone in Ukraine, it's unconscionable. The respect for humanitarian law is not there. So I'd like to first see the world help us with that, along with all the other things that we need.

And my legacy, I guess, would be I tried. I came and I did the very best I could and this organization is built on the backs of incredible people. And just to be a part of it, it's really, really amazing.

TAPPER: I also just want to note that the effects of the war go beyond food because fuel shortages tied to the war have pushed countries like Sri Lanka and Pakistan to shorten school weeks to conserve energy. What other trends are you seeing out there?

MCCAIN: Well, with fuel specifically, we as WFP in general, what we do is, of course, we bring food in, take it, drive it to where it's supposed to go, fly it to where it's supposed to go, et cetera. Well, right now we can't do that. And to get it, say, from our ports and where we should be in the Middle East to get food to Afghanistan, for instance, it will -- where it normally would take about three weeks, we're having to circumnavigate everything.

[18:40:04]

Now it's taking about three months to get it in there. So it's affecting everything, not just us, but it's affecting everything. And it's pivoting, it's cascading into South America and into the Pacific as well. It's hurting everybody. This is really dangerous.

TAPPER: Cindy McCain, thank you for being here. And thank you for what you do. It's just so important. And there are so many people who come to that behind that desk and they're not in it for the right reasons, and they're in it for themselves or whatever. And that's never been you.

MCCAIN: Thank you. I appreciate it very much.

TAPPER: Thank you so much.

MCCAIN: Thank you.

TAPPER: Appreciate it.

Cindy McCain's last day as executive director of the World Food Programme will be June 1st.

Coming up next, the, quote, "antisemitic diatribe," unquote, that a Republican lawmaker says was directed at him from the son, the adult son of a U.S. senator.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): I asked him, well, who is my people? And he yelled out, Jews. And I asked him, you know, you think I'm Jewish? And he said, yes. I said, well, I'm Irish-Italian Catholic. And he goes, oh, oh, I'm sorry to accuse you of that, which is just a remarkable statement in and of itself.

[18:45:06]

But he then went on a -- on a -- you know, roughly 10-minute diatribe about Israel and about Jews.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: In our politics lead, that's Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York earlier today describing some of the antisemitic and anti-gay insults he heard and the antisemitic ones that he received last night by William Paul, the adult son of Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky.

In studio to discuss is our panel.

So, William Paul, after this was -- this was witnessed by a reporter with "NOTUS", soon to be "The Washington Star". And he wrote it all up and Lawler confirmed it all. And then after that happened, William Paul posted on Twitter, "Last night, I had too much to drink and said some things that don't represent who I really am. I'm sorry. And today, I'm seeking help from my drinking problem."

What's your reaction?

ASHLEY DAVIS, FOUNDING PARTNER, WEST FRONT STRATEGIES: Obviously, it's horrible. I mean, I don't even I can't even believe that this is happening. And I think -- I'm surprised Rand Paul hasn't said anything. But maybe he's just trying to like stick back from it. But if the son's really in his 30s, I mean, well, no matter what age, but I mean, he's an adult person, that should never be said.

TAPPER: He's in his 30s, yeah.

DAVIS: Yeah. I mean, this is -- obviously, there's nothing good to say about it. It's a horrible thing to say.

TAPPER: So Congressman Lawler says --

DAVIS: I give Lawler a lot of credit for coming out and --

TAPPER: Well, and also he was also like defending Jews. And he said this speaks to a larger issue with antisemitism in America today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAWLER: This is the level of hatred and vitriol, frankly, that some of my Jewish colleagues experienced, but many of my constituents experienced. I have one of the largest Jewish populations anywhere in the country in my congressional district. And I'm not going to stop standing up for my constituents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, I mean, we should note. So apparently, Rand Paul's son is from the right. But this also -- it could have been somebody from the left yelling at Lawler, wasn't in this case, but we're hearing a lot of this all over the political spectrum.

CHUCK ROCHA, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, BERNIE SANDERS 2016 & 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS: Yeah. We've talked about this on this program before. This is a big difference of where -- when I was running campaigns 20 years ago, this is because of social media and all the hate out there and vitriol. Whether somebody has had an assassination attempt or whether somebody's stepping to somebody in a bar where I grew up, if you step to somebody in a bar like that, you'd be hit. Not shot, but you -- but you wouldn't start by doing this kind of insults around Jewish people.

Let me also say this about Lawler. Lawler has a district, and this is smart for him to do this, to stand up, because Lawler is one of those few Republicans that we talk about that's in a district that could swing to the Democrats. I've run a lot of TV commercials against --

TAPPER: Kamala Harris won his district.

DAVIS: Yeah.

ROCHA: That's what I'm saying. Theres very few of these kind of districts. And for him to stand up, Democrats or Republicans don't like to see a bully like this.

TAPPER: Let's turn to Texas. Former President Obama down in Texas getting tacos with James Talarico and Gina Hinojosa. Talarico running for Senate, Hinojosa running for governor, giving their campaigns a boost as Democrats are trying to turn the Lone Star State blue, a state, by the way, where Democrats have failed to win statewide race in 30 years -- 30 years, which is older than Ashley.

Talarico is running as a Democrat as I said, for the U.S. senate, will face either Paxton or Cornyn. Hinojosa challenging Abbott.

What -- do you think that Democrats actually could win either of these races?

ROCHA: Look, I've been one of those folks who, you know, hollered at fool's gold for a long time. I worked for Ann Richards. I've worked there for 36 years. I grew up in east Texas. I actually worked for both of these candidates at some level.

TAPPER: And you work for Talarico right now?

ROCHA: And I work for Gina Hinojosa right now. Both of them.

TAPPER: You work for both of them.

ROCHA: I have a long client list, Ashley. I work for lots of folks. Okay. But the real truth here is about I do work for them is that somethings different.

I've done a lot of rallies. You've covered a lot of rallies. We've covered a lot of fundraising in Texas. Very rarely do you see a former president show up at a taco shop.

He wasn't doing a rally. He wasn't having a fundraiser. He was actually showing up old school style and shaking hands, which says a lot about where we are. There's something very different about what's happening now. It's a combination of anxiety with Republicans, with gas prices and other things. But then also Talarico and Gina being two different kind of candidates that we haven't seen before.

TAPPER: And we should note that one of the reasons why, especially if you'll permit to say Talarico might have a chance, is if Republicans pick Ken Paxton, the embattled and perceived by many voters, including Republicans, as deeply corrupt attorney general of Texas. How much are you praying for Cornyn to win that nomination? DAVIS: Well, I've known Cornyn for many years, but I'm actually one

of the few that say that the opposite that Paxton actually is going to get the base out.

TAPPER: Oh, interesting.

DAVIS: And I'm not -- I've watched Talarico and I -- and you've talked to me a lot about him. He's different than Beto. Beto.

TAPPER: Beto.

DAVIS: Beto.

TAPPER: Yeah.

DAVIS: In regards to when he ran. And I think that the country is in a or at least the states in a different point. I don't think Governor Abbott is losing at all. But I think that Talarico has some sort of movement that only Paxton can maybe beat, not Cornyn. I just don't think people come out to vote for Cornyn.

TAPPER: But here's a recent university of Houston poll finds a toss up right now for the two Texas Republicans. Paxton leads Cornyn by three percentage points, which is basically the same of the -- as the poll's margin of error, 7 percent still unsure how theyre going to vote.

[18:50:06]

Actually, those 7 percent still there -- you know, that means well, let me go to you on this. That means Trump's endorsement could have a huge impact. He's been saying for a while he's going to weigh in and whoever he doesn't endorse needs to drop out. We're getting past the point of that even being a possibility.

ROCHA: We've covered that this week with these Indiana primaries. It means something in a Republican primary, if nowhere else. It does mean something. And this election is happening in two weeks in the middle of nothing, right after Memorial Day, when nobody's going to vote, nobody but the base.

This is the point that actually makes. It's really smart, is Paxton can really turn people out from the base of, if nobody else, the base of the base. That's why I think that he's the one positioned to win this.

TAPPER: Yeah, but what about those Houston moms when it comes to November? You're not worried about?

DAVIS: I don't know, but are they going to -- are they are they really going to come out and vote that day? Or are they or is Talarico going to have such a groundswell of people? I mean, there's excitement behind him, which this midterm election is all about getting people out to vote.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks to both of you. Great to have you. A man who spent nearly nine months in ICE detention centers forced to

surrender despite winning his immigration case. How the determination of supporters changed what looked like a dire situation. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:22]

TAPPER: In our national lead, Alligator Alcatraz. Florida's controversial detention center in the Everglades is expected to shut down this summer, a source tells CNN. After a year of legal challenges, high costs and allegations of inhumane conditions.

CNN's Danny Freeman sat down with one man who spent months in ICE custody, including a stay at Alligator Alcatraz. He's just returned home to Pennsylvania, thanks to his community rallying for his release.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a quiet suburb of Philadelphia, signs like these have dotted lawns for months. A plea from a close knit community, "Bring Carlos home".

CARLOS DELLA VALLE, DETAINED BY DHS: When you're inside this, there's really not much you can do other than endure. Be strong.

FREEMAN (voice-over): This is Carlos Dela Valle. He's been living in Downingtown, Pennsylvania, for nearly two decades, working, raising a family with a U.S. citizen wife and a U.S. citizen son now in college.

But for years, Carlos had a secret. The Mexican national says he crossed the border illegally back in 1997, when he was just 20 years old, fleeing violence in his home country.

CARLOS DELLA VALLE: If I had known what I was doing -- doing at that moment, I probably would have never done it.

FREEMAN (voice-over): Carlos fell in love with his wife, Angela, and said the two consulted with immigration attorneys to get him legal status once they were married in 2002. But they say the advice they got was wait for Congress to pass laws helping mixed status families.

ANGELA DELLA VALLE, CARLOS WIFE: We got together. We had no idea that there was not going to be a pathway for us.

CARLOS DELLA VALLE: They -- they did say, stay out of trouble. Don't do anything that you might regret later. And that's what -- that's what I've been doing personally.

FREEMAN (voice-over): But in 2024, during the final days of the Biden administration, his luck ran out. On Christmas Day, while on vacation with his family in the U.S. Virgin Islands, Carlos was stopped at the airport in Saint Thomas. He was told he had a final order of removal and was charged with illegal reentry.

His trial was set for the following August during the first year of the new, more hardline Trump administration.

FREEMAN: Did you have a sense that it might become harder in the next administration?

CARLOS DELLA VALLE: They actually said it right there. Someone mentioned something to wear, like, oh, you know, were in the process of changing the way we do things.

FREEMAN (voice-over): His community rallied, family and neighbors from Pennsylvania wrote letters, and some even flew to Saint Thomas to advocate for him in open court. Carlos was found not guilty, but DHS still detained him because he still lacked status.

For the next nearly nine months, Carlos was in custody, shuttled between ICE detention centers all throughout the south, including the infamous Alligator Alcatraz in the Florida Everglades.

CARLOS DELLA VALLE: Whatever anybody is seeing on TV is true. You are in cages. It's like tents and eight cages per tent. You know, and 32 people in each cage and -- I mean, no privacy.

FREEMAN (voice-over): All the while, his wife, Angela, followed.

FREEMAN: How have the past nine months been for you?

ANGELA DELLA VALLE: They've been the hardest days of my whole life. Every day felt like a year.

CARLOS DELLA VALLE: I was worried about my body, not my mind. I believe I got all the strength from the people outside fighting for me.

FREEMAN (voice-over): Back in Downingtown, support and awareness grew. Neighbors started raising money. The local church held rallies. Politicians took notice and then. Without explanation, after more than 250 days in detention, Carlos was released.

He arrived home last week.

ANGELA DELLA VALLE: We did it.

CARLOS DELLA VALLE: All I wanted to do was hug people, and that's really all I did.

MISSY DOW, DELLA VALLE FAMILY FRIEND: Carlos means everything to this community. We are a community of good neighbors here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has restored my faith in who we are as Americans.

CARLOS DELLA VALLE: Just because I wasn't born in this country doesn't mean that I don't love this country.

FREEMAN (voice-over): Danny Freeman, CNN, Downingtown, Pennsylvania

(END VIDEOTAPE) TAPPER: And our thanks to Danny Freeman there. The Department of Homeland Security did not respond to our request for comment on this story.

Della Valle is still undocumented. He does not have legal status here in the country. The nonprofit group American Families United has been working with him and other mixed status families to pass legislation that would provide some legal relief for undocumented spouses of American citizens.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, X and on TikTok @jaketapper. You can follow the show on X and Instagram @TheLeadCNN.

If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app. Our good friend Erin Burnett and her show "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.