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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Holds Situation Room Meeting To Discuss Possible Iran Deal; Tonight, Democrats Flock At Annual South Carolina Event To Fundraise; Day Eight Of Protests Outside ICE Detention Center In New Jersey; Wave Of Artists Pull Out Of Trump-Backed 250 Concert; Smithsonian Leader Treads Fine Line Under Trump Admin. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 29, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Jake Tapper.

The Lead tonight, we're waiting to hear the results of today's White House Situation Room meeting to discuss a possible deal with Iran. In a lengthy Truth Social post before the meeting started, President Trump again listed his demands. And at the top of this list, quote, Iran must agree that they will never have a nuclear weapon or bombs. The Hormuz Strait must be immediately open, no tolls, for unrestricted shipping traffic in both directions.

[18:00:05]

By the way, a line about Iran agreeing that it will never seek, develop, or acquire any nuclear weapons also is in the first paragraph of President Obama's 2015 agreement with Iran, which Trump tore up.

Now, a spokesman for Iran's Foreign Ministry tells Iranian state television that Washington and Tehran are still in contact, but a memorandum of understanding between the two nations has not yet been finalized.

So, let's bring in CNN's Kaitlan Collins, who's been keeping tabs on all of this. And, Kaitlan, we were just talking about the fact that President Trump had said he was going to let us know what his decision is, and that's not happening right now, right?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. There was this meeting in the Situation Room today. We know the vice president, J.D. Vance was there, the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, obviously along with other top officials. And the president had previewed his list of demands, as you just noted there, Pamela, the main ones, of course, that they don't want Iran to be pursuing a nuclear weapon, that they also want to deal with the enriched uranium. The president noted in his Truth Social post that other matters, which he described as of lesser importance, had already been agreed to between the two sides. But, obviously, it's the big issues that they need to come to an agreement on.

And so the President said in his post that he would be making a final determination shortly. Maybe he has behind closed doors, but they have not disclosed to us what exactly that determination is and if the president has made any decision at all. We know that he had been weighing that 60-day extension of the ceasefire where they would reopen the Strait of Hormuz, lift the United States blockade on Iran, and then basically sort out those thornier, much thornier issues later on during that 60-day period. And so that remains to be seen if the president is in fact doing that.

He's remained behind closed doors at the White House today while meeting with his top aides, so we haven't heard from him directly on this. And he is planning to stay at the White House this weekend, so we will see if any of that changes.

But, obviously, these are the big questions that are facing the White House in terms of where exactly this war is headed next. And, certainly, they are feeling the external pressures. They were looking at the inflation numbers yesterday here in the United States. They've been watching gas prices rise over the last several months. And every day that ticks by is a day that gets closer to the midterm elections in November. And the president said the other day in the Cabinet meeting he doesn't care about the midterms, but, certainly, the Republicans that he's on the phone with quite often certainly do. Pamela?

BROWN: Yes, it's definitely weighing on them.

Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. And everyone, be sure to watch Kaitlan's show later tonight, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. Tonight, she'll have an inside look at the UFC event coming up at the White House, tonight at 9:00 Eastern on CNN.

And with us now are CNN Political and Global Affairs Analyst Barak Ravid along with former Deputy Director of National Intelligence and retired Army Lieutenant General Karen Gibson.

Barak, I want to start with you because you have sources throughout the Middle East, and I'm wondering what you're hearing about this meeting that happened today in the Situation Room and just where everything is with this potential deal.

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I want to be very careful because I think these are very sensitive and crucial moments at the moment. And I think there's quite a good chance that over the next 24 hours, there will be a decision, maybe even in the next -- maybe even later today. And I'm not sure this decision has been made yet, but I'm told from several sources that this is very much on the table.

And I think if there's one thing that President Trump has been thinking about, or as in he has been told in the last few days, according to U.S. officials, is that even though a deal will not be perfect, the alternative -- that's at least what the president's been told -- the alternative is another 6 to 12 months of the Strait of Hormuz being closed, with all the implications for the global economy and for the U.S. economy. And I think this is one of the main things that the president was and is thinking about when he's making the decision. And, General Gibson, I want to bring you in on this because the Strait of Hormuz is clearly key, right? Will the U.S. military be tied up either clearing mines from the Strait of Hormuz or making sure ships can pass through safely, potentially?

LT. GEN. KAREN GIBSON (RET.), U.S. ARMY: So, I think the U.S. military will remain deployed in the Gulf in some number for quite a while. I mean, first, if we're talking about a 30-day period to open the straits and to clear the water of any mines, as well as, you know, our very presence there and the combat power that we present, both in terms of naval and air assets, is a key part of the deterrent effort and part of our leverage that has compelled Iran to come to the table.

[18:05:02]

From what I understand, you know, of course we haven't seen the full document yet, but it sounds more like sequenced de-escalation in a framework for negotiation as opposed to a full and final peace deal. And until we are much closer to what that full peace deal looks like with the finer points worked out for both the nuclear program, as well as reopening the straits, I think we'll need to leave the strong military presence there for that course of leverage.

BROWN: And earlier this week, Barak, President Trump was insisting more countries sign on to the Abraham Accords, which would improve relations with Israel. Do you see that happening, especially if Israel continues attacking Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza?

RAVID: Well, the answer is twofold. First, this will definitely be a key issue for President Trump after the war with Iran ends. It's going to be a priority for him to try and expand the Abraham Accord, especially get a Saudi Israeli peace deal.

At the same time Israel is going for an election in three months, which means that it's going to have an interim government that cannot really take any decision. And any country in the region, even if it wants to normalize relations with Israel, will not do it ahead of an election when he doesn't know which kind of government will be in place after the election, and doesn't want to take any steps that will be seen as an interference in the Israeli election.

So, I think while this is going to be a big priority for President Trump and he's going to continue pushing it, I hear it from numerous people around the president. At the same time, I think we will not see any breakthrough on that before there is a new government in Israel after the election.

BROWN: All right. General Gibson, I have another question I wanted to ask you just on what Iran is saying. There was this top Iranian official that warned earlier today that Iran does not intend to transfer its stockpile of enriched uranium abroad. Meanwhile, President Trump maintains that Iran needs to hand it over to the U.S. How much of a sticking point do you anticipate this becoming?

GIBSON: So, I think it's a great question. I think, as we've kind of talked about here, there are really two, in fact, frankly, three categories of things that need to be negotiated, one, the ostensible reason that we entered the war to begin with, and that is to put curbs on the nuclear program. That'll be very complicated. There are a lot of issues related to sequencing and processing, and really sticking points, like the highly enriched uranium or suspending enrichment of other uranium that you've mentioned, that there's no way that's going to be resolved, I think, within 60 days.

The second broad category are those things related to navigation and commerce, whether it's I- Iran effectively closing the Straits of Hormuz, as well as our own naval blockade. I think that's what's going to get negotiated first, and that will be more important, and it could take some time to come to an agreement regarding the highly enriched uranium.

The third category are things related to missiles, proxies, drones. We're not hearing a lot about those recently, and those may or may not be included.

BROWN: All right. General Karen Gibson, Barak Ravid, thank you both.

Also in our World Lead, Romania blames a Russian drone for injuring two people in their apartment early today. Romanian defense officials say Russia was attacking a nearby Ukrainian port when the explosive- laden drone crossed the border and hit the apartment building. Romania's president calls it a serious incident and ordered the expulsion of a Russian diplomat. The strike also drew swift criticism from the European Union, NATO, and the U.S.

And here in the U.S. right now, live images right outside the Delaney Immigration Detention Center in Newark, New Jersey. For eight straight days now, we've seen crowds right outside protesting conditions inside that facility. Just ahead, the tense scene authorities are hoping not to see a repeat of.

Plus, in just hours, longtime Democratic Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina is hosting his 34th annual world-famous fish fry. It's often a gathering spot for presidential hopefuls. And is a guest headed there tonight planning to run in 2028? I'll ask him up next.

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[18:10:00]

BROWN: In our Politics Lead, tonight, it's a fixture among Southern Democrats, Congressman James Clyburn's world famous fish fry in Columbia, South Carolina. And attendees may be ready to party more than usual given the event is happening just days after Trump's failed efforts to redraw the state to help Republicans this fall.

But before the fish gets fried up, guests will gather for the Blue Palmetto Dinner, an annual party fundraiser that often showcases potential presidential contenders.

My next guest is tonight's keynote speaker at the event, Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear. Hi, Governor, nice to see you.

So, can you give us a preview of the message that you plan to deliver to Democrats tonight?

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): I am excited to be in South Carolina tonight, the state that said, no thanks, to Donald Trump's redistricting, and, yes, please, to another term for Jim Clyburn, such an impactful, important, and powerful voice in the U.S. House of Representatives.

Tonight, we're going to talk about how we have to fight for the future of this country, not just against the excess and unlawful activities of Donald Trump, not just against the failed Trump economy but about a vision for America where the American dream is still possible, where if you work hard and play by the rules, you can not only afford to pay your bills at the end of the month, you can take your kids on that same vacation your parents took you on. You can afford a home before you're 40 years old, which is the average age for first time home ownership right now. You feel safe in your community. You can believe in the public schools that you're sending your kids to. And you know you're traveling on safe roads and bridges throughout the country.

[18:15:00]

There is a path for Democrats. And I'm so proud of Southern Democrats, which after not being invested in, after being overlooked, we have scrapped our way back to the table with three Southern Democratic governors, two Southern U.S. senators with another to come in Roy Cooper. It's exciting, and we are seeing huge turnout all over the South by Democrats.

BROWN: And, of course, South Carolina is a crucial state, right? You're attending the 34th annual fish fry there. This is an event known to attract many presidential hopefuls in years past. Have you made your decision about a presidential run but just haven't announced it yet? Where are you?

BESHEAR: No I haven't. I've got a full year of serving as the head of the Democratic Governors Association, where we are going to change the map. Now, I've been campaigning with Doug Jones in Alabama, Keisha Lance Bottoms in Georgia, and today I'm in South Carolina. We're going to win where people aren't expecting. And so it's so critical to make sure that we go everywhere, that we fight everywhere.

I mean, I was reelected by five points in a state that Donald Trump won by nearly 31. I'm living, breathing proof that Democrats can win anywhere, and we should be fighting everywhere. And right now I think it's incumbent on a governor from a state like mine to try to speak reason into this chaos, to remind people that when I sue Donald Trump, it's not because he's a Republican president and I'm a Democratic governor, it's because his policies are hurting hardworking American people.

That's the message you're going to hear tonight, not just from me, but from everybody that is at this dinner, that is at that fish fry, that's just crying out for a better America that can work for everyone and that's not attacking anyone.

BROWN: For some listening, it might sound like you're running for president. I know you say you have a year, but that's not a decision you just kind of wake up and make. Can you give us any sense of where you are as it stands today?

BESHEAR: Well, I'm mainly excited in what I'm seeing throughout not just the South, but all over the United States. I mean, I think that we're going to flip Iowa, and that Rob Sand is going to be the next governor there. Amy Acton is running ahead in Ohio. Nevada and Georgia are in play.

So, what you're seeing is us working really hard in 2026 for whoever the candidate is in 2028 to change the map, to widen the margin of error. I mean, think about if Katie Hobbs is not reelected as the governor of Arizona, and we have an election denier there, what '28 looks like regardless of who the candidate is.

So, I am focused on these absolutely critical elections. In the end, I care more about this country than I do about any title for myself. And tonight, just excited to pump up South Carolina Democrats, to show them that anything is possible, to show them that we can elect Democratic governors anywhere in this country.

BROWN: I'm going to talk about Senator Elizabeth Warren and her sway over your party. Axios is reporting that Warren, one of the most influential leaders in the progressive movement, is being publicly and privately courted by Democrats eyeing presidential bids in 2028, a sign they're trying to build up their lefty credentials.

You're one of the Democrats that Axios is reporting met with Warren in recent days. What can you tell us about that meeting?

BESHEAR: I'm not trying to build up credentials anywhere. Elizabeth Warren is somebody who reached out to me after my first big win for governor, and we've stayed in touch ever since.

You know, I don't believe that this party should have this side or that side of the party, which everybody's trying to always pit against each other. I think everybody is their own unique person and leader. And we can share certain things that we can work on, and sometimes we can disagree.

Senator Warren and I both agree in early childhood education is important and should receive more funding from the federal government, that idea that regardless of whether you're a Democrat or Republican or an Independent, you want your five-year-old to show up at kindergarten ready.

And then there are lots of issues that we should not only be able to work with Senator Warren on but also across the aisle, things that aren't bipartisan but nonpartisan. A good job, being able to see a doctor in your own community, safe roads and bridges, good schools, public safety in every community. Those are things that, that aren't left or aren't right and those are a lot of the things I've talked to Senator Warren about, and she also wants to be helpful.

And that's not pushing any this issue or that issue. She wants to be helpful in places where more Democrats can win and I welcome that support.

BROWN: Centrist critics argue that Senator Warren has pulled the party too far left. Do you believe that your party has pulled itself back to the middle if it wants a shot of winning back the White House?

BESHEAR: Well, I believe we've got to be a party that more people want to be a part of, and that's got to allow for some disagreement. But the core of the Democratic Party has to be about restoring the American Dream. That if you work hard and play by the rules, you can get ahead, of making sure that people believe that the system is not rigged and can still work for them, that they can live a good life.

You know, Donald Trump promised he'd bring down prices, that he'd make people's lives better, and he's done anything but that. His tariff policy has raised prices on everything.

[18:20:00]

His war on Iran has raised prices on gas and diesel, raising the prices on everything. His big, ugly bill is going to decimate rural healthcare and thus raise the prices on everything healthcare.

People are out there feeling betrayed, and the Democratic Party, all it has to be is the party that agrees that we work hard every single day to make life just a little bit better for all our American citizens.

BROWN: I want to ask you, just talking about making life better, you know, there's a lot of talk about A.I. I cover it extensively on my show. I know The Lead does as well. I'm filling in for Jake Tapper. And so I wanted to ask you about plans in Kentucky, our home state, to build what will become Kentucky's largest A.I. data center in the northeastern part of the state. And as I'm sure you're aware, these data centers are becoming increasingly unpopular among voters.

Do you think it's important? Why do you think it's important for this controversial project to proceed? And what more are you doing to protect Kentuckians from losing their jobs in this age of A.I.?

BESHEAR: Yes. Well, I think there's two pieces on A.I. You know, the first is what it's going to be used for, which doesn't necessarily have to do with data centers, and that does need regulation by the federal government. We need to make sure that it doesn't cause mass layoffs. We need to make sure that it doesn't impact our national security, that it doesn't allow people to hack our bank accounts and other private information.

On the data center side, we evaluate every single project about whether it's going to be good or bad for a region, and we talk to the people of that region about it. For me, no data center is going to get any of my support unless it pays for all its own power, all of it, even the new means of generation. They've got to solve the water issue because it has to be environmentally friendly. They have to pay their fair share of taxes.

In some regions, the property tax coming off of these could double the budget for the county school system. It could allow for major raises and reinvestments in areas that are struggling and could help counties invest in other areas to create other jobs or attract healthcare.

And the last piece is the end users, the owners of these data centers need to get in the community, convince people that they will be an everyday part of it, that they will be an important company, not just somebody who is taking up land, that people are worried about the water, but that it's actually going to be a long-term partner.

Now, those are non-negotiable to me, and they are things that not only will we get commitments on up front, but we will follow through and monitor.

BROWN: All right, Governor Andy Beshear, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

BESHEAR: Thanks for having me.

BROWN: A live look in New Jersey right now. This is right outside the Delaney Immigration Detention Center in Newark. You see authorities there as crowds gather again tonight, protesting conditions right inside. The intense scene we saw there last night and what's expected tomorrow.

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[18:25:00]

BROWN: In our National Lead, you're looking at live pictures right here outside an immigration detention center in Newark, New Jersey. For eight straight days, we've seen demonstrations amid a week-long hunger strike reportedly being carried out by detainees over inhumane conditions. The protests at times erupted into heated clashes with ICE agents, including last night.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino reports from right outside the detention center.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, the crowd of demonstrators has actually been significantly smaller throughout the day here today, and part of the reason for that is there's actually checkpoints that have been established around the perimeter of Delaney Hall to try and keep the traffic under control here. Only trucks are being allowed in to try and keep congestion down.

New Jersey Governor Mikie Sherrill announcing several measures earlier today. She is deploying the state police to take over for the ICE officers that have been guarding the entrances to Delaney Hall for the past few days. That's where we have seen a lot of the confrontations, a lot of the violent confrontations into the evening hours taking place.

So, we are expecting the state police to take over operations here. ICE officers are expected to be giving up these posts. State police and local police will take over. And there will also be the creation of specific protest zones. People will still be allowed to gather, but they are going to be told exactly where to do it. And this is all ahead of a demonstration scheduled for Saturday. This is expected to be a pro-ICE demonstration. So, officials acknowledging that things could likely escalate between tonight and tomorrow with that protest that is planned, so significant public safety measures being put into place, and, again, the governor directing state police to take over for ICE officers. Pamela?

BROWN: All right, our thanks to Gloria Pazmino there.

And a retired judge is joining us next. We're going to get his reaction to his role in a new legal order that just came down against President Trump's $1.8 billion anti-weaponization fund.

We'll be back.

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[18:30:00]

BROWN: In our Law and Justice Lead, two major rulings today on the Trump administration's $1.776 billion anti-weaponization fund. Today, a federal judge temporarily halted the administration from moving ahead with plans to create that fund, which the administration says is to compensate victims of what they call government weaponization.

And just moments ago, the federal judge who oversaw Trump's unprecedented lawsuit against the IRS ordered him to respond to claims that he committed fraud on the court. That order stems in part from a legal effort brought by 35 retired judges who asked a federal court on Wednesday to reverse course and reopen the lawsuit.

So, a lot going on here on the legal front, and I want to bring in one of the judges challenging the fund. In these two cases I just mentioned, Judge Fogel, former -- retired Judge Fogel, they're related, right? So, tell us more about these two major setbacks for this fund and what you make of these rulings.

JEREMY FOGEL, RETIRED UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT JUDGE: Well, let me say the first case, the one in Florida that Judge Williams in Florida just ruled on, that was a case where President Trump sued the Internal Revenue Service, claiming that they had improperly released his tax returns. He sued them for $10 billion. That case was settled before there was any actual litigation of the case. There was a complaint filed, but there was no response to that.

[18:35:02]

And the settlement involved the creation of the fund that you just described, as well as immunity of the president from any past audits or findings of any misfiling or anything like that, both on his own part or his family or his related business entities.

The problem is, I think, from the standpoint of the judges who challenged it, and I was in that group, is that it really wasn't a controversy. If you go back to the Constitution in Article 3, which sets up the federal courts, it says that the federal courts are there to adjudicate cases or controversies. That's where there's actual disagreement between parties as to the merits of a legal matter.

What happened in this case is that the president was directing both sides of the case. He was -- his own defense obviously because he was he was one of the parties, but he also was giving instructions to the Justice Department, or at least that's what we believe happened, so that the president's wishes were being respected on both sides of the case and the creation of the settlement fund that you just described was done without any actual case or controversy for the federal court to decide.

In addition to that, the fund that was created is one that ordinarily you would think would be something that Congress would be responsible for creating. The role of procreating funds is a role of Congress, not of courts. Congress certainly could if one thought that it made sense to create a fund like this to compensate the people who were intended to become suited.

Congress has the power to do that. But what happened is that there was a settlement reached where both sides of the case were essentially represented by the same people, and that was not fully known to Judge Williams. And so the motion that we brought before her was to acquaint her with that background and give her a chance to review the matter, and she's going to do that. That's what we expect of her order.

BROWN: Yes. Let me just jump -- let me jump in here. And in terms of the Trump administration, as you know, its argument is this has been done before. The Justice Department put aside money for Native Americans who didn't get federal subsidies. That is what they're arguing. But bottom line is what is your ultimate hope here with the outcome?

FOGEL: Well, I mean, I think most of us who signed this motion didn't do so for policy reasons. I'm not taking a position as to whether a fund like this should be created. I may have a view about it, but I think as a judicial matter, the question here is really one of process.

The concern is that there was not litigation. I mean, in the cases that you're describing and that the administration is citing, there were contested proceedings. There were plaintiffs, there were defendants. The government was on one side, the plaintiffs were on the other side, and the settlement resulted from a resolution of a contested matter. That's what courts do. The courts settle cases all the time. And sometimes settlement funds are created. So, to that extent, they're right.

But what was really different about this is that there really wasn't a case or controversy. There were the same people on both sides of the table to craft the matter. That's what we're concerned about. So, it's a process issue, and I think we have a whole range of judges who signed this motion, and some people are much more sympathetic to the people who would be served by the funds than others, but I think that's irrelevant. It's, I think, an unconstitutional use of the courts because you don't have a case or controversy.

BROWN: I would ask you about something else very quickly. A federal judge today blocked the Kennedy Center from temporarily closing its doors and ordered officials to remove Trump's name from the Kennedy Center. Not long ago, the president signaled that he may actually be backing down on the takeover posting, saying, we are going to be working with Congress to transfer this failing institution back to them so they can make a determination as to what to do with it. I have no interest in continuing what could be a hopeless journey into Never Never Land. What's your reaction to that?

FOGEL: Well, I think the president is right that this is something that is within the power of Congress. That is exactly what the judge who heard the case said, that the name of the Kennedy Center was created by an act of Congress. It is pretty clear to him that the only way to change the name of the Kennedy Center is by an act of Congress.

And there are other aspects of the legislation having to do with the board that governs the Kennedy Center that no matter how strongly the president or anybody else feels, they have to comply with the statute.

[18:40:02]

They have to comply with the law.

And I think that's essentially what the order said. It didn't say you couldn't ever rename the Kennedy Center. It didn't say you couldn't repair the Kennedy Center. It didn't say you could make changes to governance of the Kennedy Center. But this is within the purview of Congress. It's not something that the president or someone else in the executive branch can just decide to do.

BROWN: Okay.

FOGEL: And in that sense, there's a -- yes. Yes.

BROWN: All right. We have to leave it there. Judge Jeremy Fogel, thank you so much.

And just ahead, the growing list of iconic names in music pulling out of plans to celebrate the nation's 250th birthday right here in Washington. We'll be back to discuss.

Stay with us.

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BROWN: In our politics lead, Bret Michaels and Martina McBride are the latest in a wing -- in a wave, I should say, of music stars dropping out of a concert celebrating the country's 250th birthday on the National Mall this summer.

Rock star Bret Michaels explained his decision on Instagram, quote, what was presented to us as a celebration of our country has evolved into something much more divisive than what I agreed to be a part of. Michaels also raised safety concerns for him, his band, family, and fans.

And country singer Martina McBride posted she was pulling out after she was --

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[18:45:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Michaels also raised safety concerns for him, his band, family and fans.

And country singer Martina McBride posted she was pulling out after she was, quote, 'presented with an opportunity to perform at a nonpartisan event, but that turned out to be misleading. They join rapper Young MC, The Commodores, and Morris Day and the Time, who have all dropped out of this event.

Here to discuss is the panel.

There's also some that are sticking so far, and that's Vanilla Ice, by the way, which we were just talking. We were like throwback to the 90s here.

ASHLEY DAVIS, AUTHOR, "THE POWER PIVOT": Which is my high school days going, yeah.

BROWN: I mean, exactly. We're getting Vanilla Ice songs in our head here. We're going to get to him in just a second. But I want to go to what the spokesperson for this event said in response to this wave of artists withdrawing today, in an interview with "The Hill". Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIA FRIEDLAND, FREEDOM 250 SPOKESPERSON: It is inherently nonpolitical. It is a celebration of our country. I don't think there's anything partisan about America being around for 250 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, Ashley, what is your reaction to these artists like Martina McBride and Bret Michaels who are saying, look, we were given this opportunity and we were told it was nonpartisan and then it changed. And Bret Michaels was a contestant and winner of Trump's "Celebrity Apprentice", by the way.

DAVIS: I did not know that. Good fun fact.

BROWN: Am I right about that, guys? Let's just double check.

(LAUGHTER)

DAVIS: But you know, I talked to some of the team a little bit earlier about the Freedom. 250 and this wasn't supposed to be partisan at the end of the day. And it makes me a little sad just because it is supposed to be a country -- for the 250th anniversary. However, what's happening was once they were announced, obviously they got significant backlash. And so from them as artists, I'm sure they're weighing are they isolating 50 percent of the country by doing something like this? And but by the way, now that they canceled, they're isolating the

other 50 percent of the country.

BROWN: Well, it also is it just kind of a sign of the times like nothing is nonpartisan now. I mean, it just seems like you can't even breathe without it being political.

DAVIS: Exactly.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. Although it's -- I mean, it's interesting because there's Freedom 250, which is affiliated with the Trump team. I mean, they set the organization up. There's also America 250, which was supposed to be the nonpartisan organization organizing celebrations for the Fourth of July. So you know, I think the -- and I don't know, but it sounds like there may have been some intentional blurring of those lines when the teams reached out to these artists to try to convince them to perform.

So, it is, I -- I agree broadly, it is, you know, this should be a celebratory moment for the country. And it's unfortunate that politics has infected it. But, you know, this was the way the Trump team intentionally set up Freedom 250, and so, I think these artists felt like they, you know, they weren't leveled with. And so they weren't --

DAVIS: Bad stuff on their part or --

BEDINGFIELD: It could be. It could be. It could be, although certainly, you know, I have worked with celebrities who have participated in Democratic events and the Democratic convention. And you know, there's often a lot of back and forth with artists and their teams. It's a very intensive process. But you know, yes, due diligence should have certainly been done on the staff side, but there should have been transparency on the Trump team's side as well.

BROWN: Well, one artist who is not backing out so far at least is Vanilla Ice. And he posted this on Instagram. I'm super honored to do this concert with everybody. We're going to bring back the '90s. Oh, actually, we can listen to it.

DAVIS: Even better.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANILLA ICE, MUSICIAN: I'm super honored to do this concert with everybody. We're going to bring back the '90s. Put your dancing shoes on. You'll be happy. Trust me. It's all about enjoying the great times of 250 years, man, from George Washington to now. And all the presidents and everybody in between. This is a magical event that's going to happen, and very rare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So much better hearing from him than my rendition.

DAVIS: He's aged pretty well.

BROWN: Yeah, right. I agree.

Side note, I think a lot of us are like, wait, he's still going and he's going to perform and like, wow. So --

BEDINGFIELD: Well, I mean, the, the '90s renaissance is having a moment. So Vanilla Ice and his team probably saw a moment to seize the opportunity, seize the business opportunity.

DAVIS: By the way, my haters always say I have '90s hairdo. So maybe like I will like --

BROWN: Oh, that's all you get from the haters. I would take that and run with it.

(CROSSTALK)

BEDINGFIELD: =- talking about.

BROWN: Exactly. I mean, haters going to hate.

BEDINGFIELD: Exactly.

BROWN: All right. So let's turn to something else. And that is what's happening in South Carolina right now. Congressman Clyburn's world famous fish fry. That's tonight. It's a key destination for Democrats weighing a possible White House run. And, Kate, I just interviewed Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear, and he told me this about his visit. Let's listen.

Okay. We don't have the sound, so I will just tell you.

BEDINGFIELD: Great.

BROWN: He started off talking about, you know, his pitch to Democrats and how, you know, how they want to help the country.

[18:50:01]

But it very much sounded like a pitch from someone running for president. But he told me he hasn't yet made the decision. He's been saying that for a few months now, but obviously not closing the door. What do you think?

BEDINGFIELD: Well, I wouldn't expect to hear from anybody a confirmation that they're running for president until after the midterms, certainly. So --

BROWN: Just remind our viewers, though, like, why is that? You know why.

BEDINGFIELD: Well, there can be some backlash. I mean, you, you know, right now, you've got people all across the country who are running for House and Senate races who are trying to raise money, who are trying to generate media attention, and having somebody come in who is sort of bigfooting and trying to, you know, to generate presidential excitement two years out. You know, they're just they're stealing a finite amount of money and attention resources by doing that.

So you're not going to -- I'd be stunned if you heard a Democrat get in before -- before November. They also want to make a practical decision. They want to see what happens in November. They want to get the latest read from the electorate, sort of where they're going, how they're feeling. So I wouldn't expect anybody to say they're getting in, however.

BROWN: You can get glimpses, right? Like this fish fry in South Carolina.

DAVIS: And first quarter of next year will probably be one.

BEDINGFIELD: Yes, I would -- I would expect yes, I would expect first quarter of next year.

And look, no question the fish fry for a Democrat, the fish fry is a must stop. South Carolina, although the primary schedule has not been set yet for 2028, South Carolina very likely to retain its early role in the primary process.

BROWN: Yeah. I mean, remember with Biden.

BEDINGFIELD: Very much so. It was critical. It was critical to Biden winning -- winning the nomination.

And so, I would expect every Democrat who's eyeing running for president to make their journeys to South Carolina to talk to Mr. Clyburn. And so, the fact, that Andy Beshear is at this event certainly signals that he's -- he's doing some of that legwork.

BROWN: Just very quickly, just to pivot, talking about Republicans so far, there's still no agreement on Iran, right? The president hasn't announced anything. And he has said repeatedly Americans' financial situations isn't part of the factor here when it comes to Iran. But as we get closer to the midterms, what do you want to see as a Republican?

DAVIS: So my national security background hat, I would say I'm happy my commander in chief and I would say that this was Bush, Clinton, you know, anybody would say that we're not going to negotiate on national security based on a midterm election. But obviously, that's hanging around everybody right now.

And, you know, I just saw before we came on, there may be, you know, he may agree to this with the deal. And if he does, is that -- is that quick enough to get the gas prices down or not? I'm not sure. From the economists, they say it's going to take months. So we'll see.

But I don't think that that's what he's thinking about.

BROWN: Okay. All right.

DAVIS: That's not what others are thinking about, he's thinking.

BROWN: Well, I can tell you Republicans in Congress are really thinking about it.

DAVIS: That's what I mean.

BROWN: All right. Ashley Davis, Kate Bedingfield, thank you both. Have a great weekend.

And we are back with a rare interview with the head of the Smithsonian Museums and his personal touch on a new exhibit to honor the nation's 250th birthday. Plus, what he says about input on it from the White House.

We're going to show all of this with our Rene Marsh right after this quick break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:57:34]

BROWN: The Smithsonian Institution in D.C. is preparing for the nation's 250th anniversary.

CNN's Rene Marsh got a sneak peek. Also in a rare interview, she spoke with Lonnie Bunch, who heads up the institution as the Trump administration seeks to influence how American history is presented.

And with the president at the center of the celebrations, we asked whether that political pressure is shaping the exhibits.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're at the Smithsonian Castle. It's been shut down since 2023 for renovations, but its temporarily reopening for the nation's 250th anniversary. And they have a special exhibit co-curated by Smithsonian Secretary Lonnie Bunch. The first time he's done this since becoming secretary, and at a time where the Smithsonian is in the political crosshairs of the Trump administration.

MARSH (voice-over): The new exhibit includes the desk Thomas Jefferson used to draft the Declaration of Independence, Amelia Earhart's flight suit, the original draft of Martin Luther King, Jr.'s I have a dream speech and a model of the Statue of Liberty before it was built.

LONNIE BUNCH III, SMITHSONIAN SECRETARY: We think of the Statue of Liberty about immigration. But if you notice, this was given because America abolished slavery. She's standing on broken chains.

MARSH (voice-over): President Donald Trump looms large over plans for the celebration. But the historian and first Black American to serve as head of the Smithsonian says the administration did not influence his picks for this exhibit.

MARSH: Was there any input from the administration on the exhibits?

BUNCH: None whatsoever. The Smithsonian always does its own scholarship. MARSH: And they didn't ask to have input.

BUNCH: Nobody, nobody --

MARSH: No review?

BUNCH: No, we don't do that. This is the Smithsonian.

MARSH (voice-over): Trump has previously slammed the Smithsonian for what he calls woke ideology. Last year on social media, he said the Smithsonian is out of control, where everything discussed is how horrible our country is, how bad slavery was. He ordered a review of Smithsonian exhibits through executive order in March of 2025.

MARSH: The administration asked for documentation from Smithsonian for review. Where does that stand?

BUNCH: Given -- everything that's been asked, we've given and we wait to hear.

MARSH (voice-over): The Office of Management and Budget, which is doing the review, did not respond to CNN's request for comment.

BUNCH: My goal is that history is driven by scholarship, not partisanship.

MARSH (voice-over): Rene Marsh, CNN, Washington.

BROWN: Our thanks to Renee.

And she adds, the Smithsonian relies on federal funding for 62 percent of its $1 billion budget. The American Aspirations exhibit opens next week and runs through July 26th, and the Smithsonian castle will remain open until September.

And coming up Sunday on "state of the union", Democratic Senator Andy Kim of New Jersey. That's Sunday at 9:00 a.m. and Noon Eastern, right here on CNN.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.