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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Trump Says, Strait of Hormuz Will be Fully Open by Friday; U.K. to Ban Social Media for Children Under 16; Gov. Gavin Newsom (D-CA) Says Trump's DOJ is Investigating His Family; UFC Fighter On White House Lawn: "Michelle Obama Is A Man". Aired 6-7p ET
Aired June 15, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.
This hour, President Trump is overseas. He's meeting with key allies at the G7 meeting of world superpowers, and he's lauding an agreement with Iran. Vice President J.D. Vance told me last hour it's a broad framework that leaves a lot of details to be worked out during future negotiations. So, what does this all mean for U.S. troops? What does it mean for the Strait of Hormuz? What does it mean for your gas prices? We're going to discuss.
Plus, the United Kingdom announced today that it is following the lead of its former commonwealth, Australia, in banning social media for kids under 16 years old. This means children will no longer be able to access TikTok or YouTube or Instagram or Facebook and plenty others. I'm going to be joined live by a top Australian official to learn what changes they have seen in their country since introducing that similar ban last year, and which countries he thinks could be next.
Also, the White House today declining to condemn the disgusting comments by a UFC fighter at last night's UFC event at the White House. He used his post-fight speech to say that, quote, Michelle Obama is a man, unquote. Is it really that difficult to denounce such disgusting rhetoric? Our panel will weigh in ahead.
The Lead tonight, President Trump telling reporters that the Strait of Hormuz is already partially opened and predicting it will fully open Friday when the U.S. and Iran are set to formally sign a memorandum of understanding. But while that is the main headline, we still don't know the details of what the U.S. and Iran are agreeing to. Vice President J.D. Vance told me this afternoon that the U.S., in his view, has the leverage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Most importantly, they're going to have a verifiable commitment to not building a nuclear weapon, but the good thing about the way that we've set this up is that we have the leverage here. We have the ability to welcome them into the world economy if they perform. We also have the ability to say, you know what? You don't get anything if you don't meet your end of the obligation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: CNN's Kaitlan Collins is in Geneva, Switzerland, just across the border from the G7 Summit in France. Kaitlan, what are you hearing from administration officials about this Iran agreement?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And we know, Jake, that the vice president is actually expected to be here in Geneva on Friday for the ceremonial signing of this memorandum of understanding that was signed about 24 hours ago, yet despite that time period going on and the fact that this is only about a page-and- a-half document, according to what the vice president told you, no one outside of those who have signed it, and a key handful of people inside the administration, have actually seen what's in this agreement that they are signing so far.
We've heard from officials combating and batting down what's been publicly said about this deal, some by Iranian state media, but no one has actually publicly gotten to lay eyes on the text of this deal yet, and no one really has explained why that is that it hasn't been released yet. There are key Republican senators who have not seen what is in this agreement. They are not yet weighing in because, basically, everyone is just hearing from the administration on what exactly this deal is expected to do.
We did hear from administration officials on background earlier today briefing reporters on what the next few days should look like. They did tell us the full text of this agreement should come out in the next 24 to 48 hours. It's not really clear, Jake, why it's going to take that long for the text of this to come out, but, presumably, we will get to see it before they actually do the ceremonial signing on Friday.
And the other thing the administration has been making clear, Jake, is that this is not really the endgame here. This is a memorandum of understanding. It's not a final deal to end this war because the key issues at the heart of this war, of why the president went into Iran, are still there, and it's still something they've got to work out over the next 60 days that this kind of time period provides for.
What they say is going to happen immediately is the Strait of Hormuz will open. The blockade that's been carried out by the United States is going to be lifted. And there's been a bit of a conflicting report on when exactly the Strait of Hormuz they expect to be at full capacity. The president has said Friday when that ceremonial signing is going to happen, but other officials have told reporters that it will take a while for that traffic to, to start to increase inside the Strait of Hormuz.
Though, Jake, obviously one key concern has been the mines that Iran laid in that strait, and earlier, an official did tell us they know where every mine that Iran laid is. And so we'll obviously see what happens there, the effort to de-mine the strait and get rid of those so tankers feel more comfortable going through it. All of those are still key questions that we're not really sure yet in terms of how it plays out.
But one thing that was said earlier on this call, Jake, that stood out to me is, basically, the administration argued that this is going to be a trial period for Iran to see if they are engaging in good faith and what the terms of this still unknown agreement are, and that if they go well, then they'll see where this goes from here.
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But they did say pretty bluntly they'll have to reassess things in about two to three weeks.
TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins in Switzerland, thanks so much. And don't miss Kaitlan on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. Her guests tonight include Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern on CNN.
With us now, CNN National Security Analyst Alex Plitsas, along with economic policy analyst Henrietta Treyz.
Alex, what are your sources telling you about what is exactly in this agreement, and what is being left to negotiate later during the 60 days of negotiations?
ALEX PLITSAS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So, I did speak to a number of individuals, including one of the mediators who has actually seen the document, and it kind of tracks with what I've been hearing from the last couple weeks, and that's largely that the substance of the agreement had been understood by all the parties, and it was the sequencing that was the problem, and largely with the Iranians looking for cash up front because they were having a liquidity problem.
So, it sounds very much the framework is the appropriate term. There's not a lot of meat on the bones, and it really does push a lot off to phase two. There really isn't anything solid about tolls or taxation or some sort of fee. That'll move into a phase two discussion. Straits of Malacca, I was told, is a potential baseline for discussion over that particular issue. There's nothing about the proxy forces in the region. That'll likely be dealt with separately because the Iranians wouldn't sign on to that, and nothing about the missiles.
All of those types of issues will be negotiated over 60 days, but it does provide for a framework for agreement on the nuclear issues as well as for an opening of the Strait of Hormuz. And what I did hear separately from U.S. officials, who stressed very clearly, and I heard this again from regional mediators, that this is a performance-based, you know, framework that the Iranians will have to comply before they sort of get anything, and that was a U.S. sticking point leading up to this.
And having spoken to mediators before the vice president's interview with you, the two pages that he cited, or page and a half, that's consistent along with the statements that he made. I'd heard very similar comments from regional mediators. So, what the vice president's comments appear to be consistent with those I've spoken to who have seen the document. TAPPER: Henrietta, President Trump said today that the Strait of Hormuz will be completely open by Friday. A Trump administration official predicts it will take roughly two weeks to see a significant increase in traffic through the strait. Is that an accurate assessment, do you think? What needs to be done before things can get back to normal?
HENRIETTA TREYZ, DIRECTOR OF ECONOMIC POLICY, VEDA PARTNERS: Well, I think the urgency that we're seeing from the administration speaks volumes here. I've been with investors and some of the smartest energy analysts in the world throughout the day today, and some folks are saying that they expect crude prices to go to $60 because this'll flow through very quickly, and the same conviction you can hear from other extraordinarily informed guys saying it's going to go to $150 crude if we don't reopen the strait immediately.
And the story is the inventories. We are depleting our inventories as fast as humanly possible in order to prevent the obvious reality of lack of oil supply to the market, to the global market. The Strait of Hormuz is going to take a while to open up. It's at least weeks if not months, to get it back to normal. There's another question about when do ships decide it's a good idea to reenter the strait, which is a whole different issue for insurers, but it's going to be quite some time, and the urgency at the White House to sign this deal before it's even released to the public tells me that we are running out of inventory, and they are running out of time to keep gas prices below the $5 mark, which we are obviously succeeding at right now, but time is running out.
TAPPER: Alex, Iran learned a lesson from this whole enterprise, which is that they can bring the world to its heels by closing the Strait of Hormuz. And this is with their military relatively decimated by the U.S. and Israel. What guarantees do we have that Iran won't close the strait in the future after they've been able to rebuild their military?
PLITSAS: We'll have some sort of, obviously, economic incentives and things for them to be integrated in the community as the stick, but that's really about it.
So, in the lead up to the 12-day war last year, the Iranians had a clandestine nuclear effort, hadn't quite moved towards complete weaponization, but they had that as a means of strategic deterrence. What they learned during the 12-day war is that the ballistic missile program served as just as good a deterrence because they believe that the 12-day war ended in a conditional ceasefire as opposed to an unconditional surrender, which President Trump had posted on Truth Social, as a result of those attacks.
And now this time around, they've learned that very low-cost drones and some projectiles, which will be virtually impossible to destroy all together, can produce the same effects without putting mines in the water. So, in theory, they could do this again at any point of their choosing.
TAPPER: And, Henrietta, it's not just a matter of stopping the shooting, clearing mines in the water. What's it going to take for shipping companies and the firms that insure them to actually feel confident that this war is over and it's safe again?
TREYZ: It just takes one. That is the phrase that really sticks in my mind when I speak with the biggest global insurers. It just takes one mine. It just takes one drone. It just takes one mosquito boat, and all of a sudden you're back to the new normal, which is that Iran has clearly demonstrated that it has control over the strait, and it can disrupt any comfort that we have, any sense of normalcy, almost immediately.
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And that gets back to this idea about trying to create a track record of consistent ceasefire that is going to need to hold for weeks, if not months, before your insurance rates will come down, before they'll drop from the 300 percent uptick that we've seen since the launch of this war.
TAPPER: Henrietta Treyz, Alex Plitsas, thank you so much.
Another country is moving to ban social media for children and teenagers under the age of 16. But should the government be making these decisions, or should it be in the hands of parents? That's next.
California Governor Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, says the Justice Department is now investigating his wife because he is a, quote, political enemy of President Trump. What CNN is learning about potentially related investigations ahead.
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TAPPER: Our Tech Lead now, a new legal battle over social media and children is unfolding in the United States. Florida's attorney general is suing TikTok, accusing that platform of allowing children to create accounts, misleading parents about the content kids see, and using features designed to keep young users hooked. In a statement, TikTok says the app is, quote, built with safety at its core, and that the company is, quote, prepared to defend our strong record on minor safety, unquote.
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Also in our Tech Lead, relatedly, earlier today, U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer unveiled a ban on social media for children under 16. Starmer says the restrictions are needed to protect young people's mental health and safety online. The plan would block access to platforms, such as TikTok and Instagram and Snapchat, with the ban expected to take effect next year.
Reaction from the young people it targets has been mixed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I kind of believe that he'd chicken out of it and give it more time or more consideration. But he seems pretty sure of it, and I'm not sure if I agree with him.
REPORTER: What are you most worried about?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not being able to contact my friends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Some teens are concerned. Others say the ban could be good for them ultimately. The U.K.'s action comes after Australia became the first country to implement a nationwide social media ban for children under 16, sparking a global debate over how far governments should go to regulate children's online lives.
Joining us now is the premier of South Australia, Peter Malinauskas, who initiated that first ban, and we talked to him back then. And welcome back, sir. You've now had time to implement and live with the policy. What has changed the most for young people and families in South Australia?
PETER MALINAUSKAS, PREMIER OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA: Jake, quite simply, kids are talking to people around them a lot more. We've seen a range of challenges emerge since the ban has been implemented that you'd reasonably expect. You know, kids are pretty intuitive. They find ways around these things, and a comprehensive survey was conducted only last month that was statistically significant, and it found 45 percent of kids had done that, which is quite a high number.
But really interestingly, the ban has seen an uplift in sports participation by over 22 percent. 77 percent of parents said, oh, we can actually now talk to our kids about what healthy social media use looks like in a way that they didn't before. And the number that I was really sort of pleased with is 25 percent of kids are reading more.
So, yes, there's been challenges, undoubtedly, but all the uplift we were hoping for, we're actually starting to see real evidence of.
TAPPER: What about mental health for children, or is it too early to tell?
MALINAUSKAS: Look, I think, you know, if we're scientifically honest about it, it's a bit too early to tell before we've got a longitudinal study of positive impacts. But what we do definitively know, Jake, is when kids are talking to one another in a healthy social environment, when they're playing sport, when they're reading, when they're more attentive in the classroom, that will have a positive impact on their mental health.
Only yesterday I was at a significant public school in South Australia where we also implemented the nation's first mobile phone ban in schools, and principals and teachers were all at one about talking how much more attentive kids are in class, and they're seeing less evidence of cyberbullying and the disruption that causes socially in the classroom as a result.
TAPPER: One of the biggest concerns in the U.K right now, and you just heard one of the young people from the U.K. just say this, is teens saying that they're going to lose contact with friends that they speak with and message with on social media. How have you addressed that issue?
MALINAUSKAS: Yes. Look, that is a real concern, and that's the principal reservation that young people have.
So, what's been telling here in Australia thus far is for kids who had social media accounts that have lost them, and that's over 5 million young people in Australia so far, which is a big number in a country of a population of 28 million people overall, the kids that have lost social media, they've tried to find ways around the ban.
But the kids that are becoming older and never had social media in the first instance, parents are stopping them from having it in the first place, even getting a phone later than what would otherwise be the case. The power of the ban, of course, lies in the fact that it is universal. So, as kids come -- you know, turn 13, 14, 15, as they might otherwise start to get a phone, they're not anymore. So, that it's not as though they've missed out on anything, Jake.
For the kids that have lost social media accounts that have actually complied with the ban, they're just finding ways to communicate with their friends in more traditional formats. Going down to the local oval and kicking the footy, playing cricket, talking to one another in the classroom, riding their bike to see their mates rather than just doing it via a mobile phone app, and that is decidedly healthy and something we're very happy with.
TAPPER: Do you think there are other countries besides the U.K. that are going to follow your lead?
MALINAUSKAS: Well, I was rapt to see Canada announce its intentions last week. We've seen the U.K. France is on the precipice of introducing its ban. Denmark has led. Chancellor Merz in Germany has indicated that they support it. Interestingly, in the German instance, it's the center-left parties that have expressed reservations, whereas it was center-left parties in Australia that initiated this.
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So, we are seeing a -- oh, Spain is also well down the track. Malaysia in Southeast Asia, they're now pursuing it. So, this is, you know, in a way that we could have only have hoped when we initiated this in South Australia, this is truly going global. No one is suggesting for a moment, or ever has, that a ban is a silver bullet solution for the challenges we're trying to confront, but it is undoubtedly a powerful tool to put the power back into parents' hands to talk to their kids around what healthy social media and screen time looks like.
TAPPER: South Australia Premier Peter Malinauskas, thank you so much. Good to see you again.
Iran is getting ready for its first World Cup match tonight. But for Iranians living in the United States, many are deeply divided on the team representing their homeland and their heritage. CNN is outside the stadium hosting the match with this story, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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TAPPER: A tragic update to the breaking news from our National Lead. Eight crew members, eight, are believed to be dead after the B-52 bomber crashed shortly after takeoff from Edwards Air Force Base northeast of Los Angeles earlier today.
Emergency crews responded immediately to the crash this morning. You can see the aircraft appears to be completely decimated, as the runway was left with a large blackened scar. Our hearts go out to the loved ones of those involved.
Turning now to our World Lead, we are just a few hours away from Iran's World Cup debut against New Zealand. Iran, it'll be the first time in World Cup history that a host nation is at war with one of the tournament's participants. Many Iranian-Americans are deeply divided. Some plan to watch tonight's match. Others plan to protest outside the stadium in Los Angeles. Protests are not permitted at FIFA events.
CNN's Julia Vargas Jones speaks to Iranian-Americans facing their most complicated World Cup yet.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NADER ADELI, ARYA F.C. CAPTAIN: It looks like that you have gotten used to the Persian culture.
JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Almost every player on this suburban Los Angeles soccer team, the Arya Football Club, is Iranian.
And these are the colors of Iran.
ADELI: Colors of the -- yes. We thought that we keep the excitement of those colors in our jersey as carrying the flag of Iran at the same time.
JONES: And as the Iranian national team plays their first World Cup game here in Los Angeles, they are caught between their cultural identity, their politics, and sports.
Do you feel represented by this team?
ADELI: No. No, it's a definite no. I know that Iran could have better players in their squad, but they're not here, for one reason or another.
JONES: Iran's national team arrived in Tijuana, Mexico, under a cloud of immigration restrictions imposed by the U.S., from fear that Tehran would, quote, abuse the system to sneak terrorists into the United States under false pretenses, a U.S. administration official told CNN.
This is an unprecedented situation, where you have the host of a World Cup be actively at war with one of its participants, and your community, or Iranians who live here in the United States, are caught in the middle of that.
ADELI: Yes, it is very hard situation. I don't know how Iranian government is coping with that, and at the same time, how United States is coping with that. And you would say, why would, should this team be here? We are at war with them, right?
JONES: A number of team Iran staffers had their visas denied, and according to a spokesperson for the Iranian Football Federation, players would only enter the U.S. one day before the first match, and two days before each of the next two matches, to minimize their time in the country.
ADELI: At the end of the day, it is football time.
JONES: But not every player here is so eager to embrace the mindset of football conquers all.
RAMIN GHASHGHAEI, ARYA F.C. PLAYER: I'm not even supporting it. Any logo that has IRGC on it, to me is a terrorist organization, and I have no room to support it. I don't care who they represent.
JONES: Could soccer help give Iranians, at least here, a little bit of a reprieve, a little break?
GHASHGHAEI: All the women and the girls and the teenagers that got killed in Iran in January, not a single blood is worth any soccer team. To me to -- for me to actually go in front of the telly or buy a ticket to go support Iranian national team, that is not an Iranian national team, in my opinion, 100 percent. So, go Brazil.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES (on camera): And Jake, here outside the Los Angeles stadium, we're seeing a steady stream of protesters. They're coming here with that very flag, the sun and lion flag that is viewed as the flag that represents Iran for the people who are opposed to the Iranian government here. What they're saying, Jake, is despite, as you mentioned, protests not being allowed inside FIFA stadiums, is that they want to test that rule. They want to bring their protest inside by bringing this flag inside, which they say is the historical flag of Iran, and we'll see if they actually succeed.
TAPPER: All right. Julia Vargas Jones, thank you so much, really interesting report.
In a video posted on social media, California Governor, potential Democratic Presidential Candidate Gavin Newsom says the Trump Justice Department is investigating his wife. But CNN, or why -- what CNN is learning about any potential related probes, that's next.
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TAPPER: Our Law and Justice Lead now, California's Democratic governor, Gavin Newsom, says President Trump's Justice Department is launching an investigation into his family that the governor says is purely political.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): And to Donald Trump, this country does not belong to you. It does not belong to your cronies, and we're going to fight your lawlessness, and we're going to continue to remind the people of this country of your corruption, that same corruption our founders warned us against as we move to celebrate our 250th anniversary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: That was earlier today. CNN's Paula Reid is following this for us. Paula, what are your sources saying about this investigation? What is it?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, Jake, we're told that there is no investigation directly into Governor Newsom, but there are investigations into people around him, including his wife. They are investigating for possible tax-related crimes.
Now, a different source tells us that in recent weeks there has been a flurry of activity from the FBI and the IRS. So, we're talking about subpoenas for records, interviews they've conducted about the Newsoms, about their personal and professional activities.
Now, there have not been any specific subpoenas for the governor or his wife or interviews with either one of them. But in his video today, Newsom said that President Trump is targeting him as a, quote, political enemy. Of course, Jake, as we know, the Trump Justice Department has an established pattern of pursuing the president's political adversaries. The president has also previously called for Newsom to be arrested.
But we are told by a source that the Justice Department's political leadership, so we're talking about the people Trump picked to run this Justice Department, so Todd Blanche, Stan Woodward, Harmeet Dhillon, that they're not involved in this investigation's origin. Instead, this probe was prompted by a whistleblower complaint and previous investigations.
Because also complicating this is the fact that Newsom's former chief of staff was indicted of November of last year related to charges on a scheme to steal campaign money. Now, she pleaded guilty to three of those charges last month.
But, look, that's a lot of smoke around the governor right now, and if anyone is investigating people that close to you, including your spouse, there is always a chance that investigation may find its way to you.
But, Jake, we're going to continue to report this out and be really careful as we learn more details, because, as we know, there are a lot of political incentives on both sides of this when it comes to how this is being spun. Someone, of course, being on Trump's political enemies list, that's a great thing if you want to throw your hat in the ring for 2028. And, of course, you get a lot of brownie points in the administration if you go after President Trump's political enemies.
TAPPER: Paula Reid, thanks so much. I appreciate it.
My panel joins me now. Lulu Garcia-Navarro, Governor Newsom also said this. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWSOM: Donald Trump isn't just coming after me because of my mean tweets. He's coming after me because I'm considering running for president. Because he hates that I've consistently called him out over and over again for his lies and deceit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think Paula Reid is exactly right, that we need to be very careful because this is preliminary. We first heard it from the governor, and we're just understanding what this is about. But there is a pattern, of course, that we've seen with this Justice Department and with President Trump, where he does go after people that he doesn't like. He's already, as she mentioned, called for Governor Newsom to be put in prison. So, it is concerning.
However, we've also seen people be taken in for reasons that are legitimate, and we don't know yet which one this is.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, this is kind of complicated. I mean, it started from a whistleblower. Presumably, I guess the whistleblower should be believed. Leadership at the DOJ said, look, we're not directly involved in this. The one thing we know in the past, to the point that you've made, Lulu, they have been very direct about, no, we are investigating this person. That's not the case here.
So, Jake, I get the politics why the governor's doing this. He'll raise some money. But I think we need to wait and allow this to move forward before we can really make a determinative perspective on this one way or the other.
TAPPER: Turning to Iran, a senior U.S. official says the president and vice president have both electronically, virtually signed an agreement that would end the U.S. blockade of Iranian ports, start 60 days of negotiations, including over Iran's nuclear aspirations, and also reopen the Strait of Hormuz. Earlier in the show, I asked Vice President Vance specifically about one of those key factors, the Strait of Hormuz. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: So, one of the reasons why I think actually they made this agreement, I don't think they'll ever say this, but one of the reasons why they made this agreement is because they recognize they're losing that leverage over the Strait of Hormuz. That's a card they can play. They played it once, but you can't play it every day indefinitely or you start to lose it. And I think they saw that that leverage point was getting weaker and weaker, which is why we've been able to strike this agreement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: I mean, I guess we'll see, but, as far as I know, ships are pretty scared to go through there because of all the mines that the Iranians have laid.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, I don't buy that explanation. I don't think that's true. I think, in fact, what's happened is that the longer this goes on, the more pressure there's been on the Trump administration. I mean, you've seen his poll numbers precipitously decline. You've seen inflation precipitously go up. It's a political problem in front of the midterms. And so I would say in fact that the pressure has been very squarely on the United States.
And what has been surprising, I think, to many in the administration, is how, after so many concerted attacks, after wiping out the top leadership of the Iranian regime, they have managed to withstand quite a great deal of pressure, and not only withstand pressure, but exert it as well.
TAPPER: And, Shermichael, this agreement's being met with a lot of pushback from your party, from the Republican Party. Senator Lindsey Graham, for example, said he's going to be watching for the details regarding Iran's nuclear program. He expects Vice President Vance to come and explain it all to Congress. We've seen some much harsher criticism from the likes of Eric Erickson and Mark Levin and others.
How much faith do you have in this agreement, which we don't -- we haven't seen the actual text of?
SINGLETON: Yes. Well, I want an agreement before the elections because of everything Lulu just stated.
[18:40:01]
That said, though, I mean, Iran is in a much stronger position than they have ever been.
Now, for a long time, they were a regional nuisance causing chaos, conflicts with their partners, Israel, et cetera, and we sort of dealt with that, I think, as best as we possibly could from administrations, Republicans, and Democrats alike.
Now, they have positioned themselves, in my opinion, to be like a quasi-dominant nation. Maybe they don't have nuclear capabilities. They may not have the largest military with the technological prowess that we have, or the Chinese, or the Russians, but they do have one thing, the ability to exert economic pressure on the global economic order, and that is something that wars, missiles, planes, you can't have enough of them, it doesn't really matter. And so in my personal opinion, even if you have an agreement here, how do we assure that the Iranian regime in the next two, three, or four, five years doesn't repeat this? Because now they recognize they can use it as a real cudgel to get what they want.
TAPPER: Especially as they reconstitute their military.
Stick around, Lulu, Shermichael. An ugly moment at the White House yesterday as a UFC fighter smears former First Lady Michelle Obama. So far, this White House has refused to condemn the comments. We're going to discuss all of that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:45:06]
TAPPER: In our politics lead, a pretty ugly moment at the UFC event at the White House Sunday. Following his beatdown of Derrick Lewis, heavyweight Josh Hokit just decided to mark the moment by smearing a former first lady.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH HOKIT, UFC FIGHTER: Lastly, Michelle Obama is a man! Am I right, America?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, Josh Hokit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: No, you're not right. We heard a mixture of cheers and boos are up from the crowd following Hokit's heinous comments.
So what did the White House have to say about it?
This morning, I reached out to White House Communications Director Steven Cheung and asked him if he had a comment. He said, quote, "He had a great win last night. He showed toughness and the ability to pressure his opponent both on his feet and on the ground."
So then I asked Steven Cheung how the administration's legitimate protests against people who insult First Lady Melania Trump, how that squares with their refusal to criticize Josh Hokit for his crass remarks about First Lady Michelle Obama. Steven Chung responded, quote, "He showed toughness in the ability to pressure his opponent both on his feet and on the ground. He'll definitely move up in the heavyweight rankings," unquote.
My panel joins me now.
Shermichael Singleton, I can't even imagine how Republican heads would be exploding if this were a Democratic event.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, if the roles were reversed, of course.
TAPPER: It would, but it costs nothing just to say like, we condemn those remarks.
SINGLETON: So this isn't reflective of the president. Move on. That aside, I've been looking at this on social media to see how people have been reacting, conservatives I follow. And some folks say, well, I don't understand how this is steeped in racism. That's been one of the consistent things I've seen. Even had a couple of friends that reached out and said, hey, can you just unpack this a little bit further from there?
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, you're their black friend?
SINGLETON: Well, I'm sure they have more than just me. But I said, sure, absolutely. There is a historic context here that I think a lot of people just may not be familiar with, whether it's Michelle Obama being a man or it's tennis star Serena Williams being too masculine. That was a thing when she was at her prime.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Or the president tweeting out them as monkeys, right?
SINGLETON: Or even Winsome Sears, the lieutenant governor, former lieutenant governor of Virginia, has been too angry.
When you attach that historic trope contextually to Black women, what it says is that one, it dehumanizes them, and it does exert that you don't have to have the same empathy. And so what has been the cultural result of that? You look at medicine, for example, when Black women say that they're in pain, they're typically not believed. This isn't my opinion, all of the stats say this.
TAPPER: Yeah, 100 percent.
SINGLETON: Maternity rates for black women, mortality, rather, black women, white women, significantly tear worse than the other.
TAPPER: Dehumanization, the dehumanization. Yes.
SINGLETON: So I think for people who don't understand why some black, many black people have said, "Hey, this is racist," you have to understand historical context that has been laid against women in my community and how those things have led to detrimental impacts and harms for generations and decades. It was inappropriate.
It should not have been stated. And even Dana White, who's a big, free speech guy. This was terrible.
TAPPER: Let me read it. Let me read it. The CEO of UFC, Dana White, had this to say, he said, I understand that the Obamas are public figures, but I'm completely against saying nasty and false things about people's families. Everyone knows my position on free speech, but I hate that kind of nonsense.
We also heard from Dave Portnoy, founder of Barstool Sports. He had this to say about the moment. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAVE PORTNOY, FOUNDER OF BARSTOOL SPORTS: When you have that on the White House lawn, on an event you put down, I don't care what you think about the Obamas or anything, that has to be an immediate denounce, like wrong, doesn't speak for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: But why would the White House not do that? Why would the White House go out of its way to not condemn it?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: A hundred percent. That is -- that is the question. Why wouldn't they? If you don't condemn it, then you endorse it, because this happened literally on your front lawn. This happened in an event that you organized.
And this happened in an event that was there ostensibly to celebrate the president's birthday and the 250-year anniversary of the founding of this country. So what on God's green earth are you doing if you're not condemning it?
SINGLETON: This crap is just so divisive because it's supposed to be representative of the country's history. And if I watched the fight, I wasn't able to go because I was with my family. And all of the other fighters, they thanked God, they thanked military soldiers, EMS, they say it's a great day for the country, et cetera.
And you have one person, I don't know the guy, pretty classless behavior, personal opinion, who maybe he thought this was funny, but funny to whom? I don't think you have to insult people or buy into tropes to dehumanize people to make a point. It just wasn't necessary.
And I'm glad that some people have called it out and rightfully so. But again, contextually, I want people to understand historically why this is so hurtful to so many people out.
TAPPER: Shermichael, thank you so much. Lulu, thank you so much for being here.
The new Apple TV series "Widow's Bay", one of the surprise hits of the year, the season finale is coming up.
Coming up next, creator Katie Dippold joins me to talk about why her show is delighting audiences and critics alike.
[18:50:04]
Also scaring us, to be honest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: In our pop culture lead, perhaps it is fitting for America's 250th year that the season's best new TV show, as crowned by "The New York Times", is "Widow's Bay". "Widow's Bay" explores the past 400 years of history on a small New England island, Widow's Bay, where a terrifying old curse threatens to destroy its population of quirky, complex, seafaring people. After a few episodes dropped, word of mouth made it the number one
show on Apple TV because, honestly, it feels like nothing else out there. And yes, it'll scare the daylights out of you, but then it will also make you laugh. I was talking to the guy on the ferry, and he said something odd. What was that? Also make you laugh.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was talking to the guy on the ferry, and he said something odd.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said bad things happen here.
[18:55:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I find a charm in myself. What town doesn't have a checkered past?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there cannibalism?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I don't think that's right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Joining me now, Kate Dippold. Katie Dippold, the creator and showrunner for "Widow's Bay".
TAPPER: Okay, first of all, I love the show, it's so great. It has been picked up for a second season, that's great news for everybody who's watching it.
KATIE DIPPOLD, CREATOR & SHOWRUNNER, "WIDOW'S BAY": Thank you.
TAPPER: You actually wrote the pilot of this 20 years ago, but you kept refining it. You told "The Hollywood Reporter" you would bring a notebook to the East Coast when you would visit history museums, imagine what it would like if that were "Widow's Bay". And in a way, you made history kind of like a character in the show.
DIPPOLD: Yes. And we spent a lot of time in the writer's room thinking about the centuries of history. So when one outrageous event appeared, it would be just pop as fun. Do you know what I mean?
TAPPER: Yeah.
DIPPOLD: We wanted to ground it and make it feel as real as possible so it didn't feel too campy.
TAPPER: Yeah.
DIPPOLD: So yeah, a lot of work has been put in that history.
TAPPER: I want to show a silent scene with the town mayor, played by Matthew Reese from "The Americans". He's looking through a board games collection at a haunted hotel. These games are daddy's home, she shouldn't have said that, teeth, in which the accessory is a pair of pliers. Then there's a card game called run. These are funny and unnerving both.
It's a tough tone to achieve. You hit it out of the park but it's a tough tone -- no, you did and because it is legitimately scary, but legitimately hilarious.
DIPPOLD: That was the goal because I, sometimes it can get really muddy easily and it can really fall off the rails, but I just, I want to do a show where when you laugh, you laugh, but when it gets scary, the scary's never silly. Like I find terror delightful.
TAPPER: Yeah.
DIPPOLD: I mean, like I'm delighted by a haunted house. If you go to the movies and someone has a really well-crafted horror scene, I love it when the audience screams but then everyone starts laughing. You know, just gets you.
It's kind of like a childlike dangerous excitement kind of feeling I was always chasing so that was the goal.
TAPPER: Is there is there like an archetype TV show or movie that when you think of like the horror comedy genre, that they -- that was a goal or an -- a role model for you?
DIPPOLD: I mean, my favorite horror comedies are, I would say, "American Werewolf in London".
TAPPER: Oh, that's great. Yeah.
DIPPOLD: I love "Cabin in the Woods" and "Shaun of the Dead" and Sam Rainey movies.
TAPPER: "Cabin in the Woods" is just scary that way.
DIPPOLD: I did that, because those are all very different from each other. "Cabin in the Woods" is terrifying.
TAPPER: "Shaun of the Dead" is funny --
DIPPOLD: "Shaun of the Dead" is more funny.
TAPPER: -- and scary.
DIPPOLD: "American Werewolf in London," I feel like does both really well. Like they'll take a huge swing, but then they'll also terrify you with the subway sequence and the tube. So those were the ones I would think about a lot, even though they're very different from them.
TAPPER: So one of the best horror directors of all time, Guillermo de Toro, said, quote, "Widow's Bay" may very well be the best streaming series in a long time. Just series, not horror comedy series. Best series in a long time, and hands down one of the most mesmerizing acts of narrative prestigitation in horror. It's easy for him to say. I want to do -- I want to ask about this horror, because obviously you
have it. You first kind of became notable when in 2016 you had a viral tweet. You said throwback to Halloween when I dressed as the Babadook but my friend's house had more of a grown-ups drinking wine vibe. Is that true? Is that an actual incident?
DIPPOLD: It is an actual incident and what the photo doesn't tell you like I sat there and watched a movie for about an hour and a half dressed like that
TAPPER: And nobody was else -- nobody else was dressed.
DIPPOLD: No, my one friend said he was going to dress up but he came as someone from "The Sopranos" so he just wore a tracksuit like this is not a Halloween costume, OK? And so we just sat there like that, and also I was drinking red wine, so I had red wine --
TAPPER: Bloody, bloody mouth.
DIPPOLD: -- against the white face.
TAPPER: That's the perfect combination of comedy and horror right there
DIPPOLD: That honestly, like that photo is my soul, and it is the spirit of the show.
TAPPER: So if you Google "Widow's Bay", you probably know this. There's an Easter egg where Google suggests a correction. Did you mean the next to Martha's Vineyard and definitely not cursed? That pops up.
So if you were an unfortunate tourist in "Widow's Bay", which character would you want to grab a beer with?
DIPPOLD: Oh my gosh, that's a great question. I mean, I guess you got to grab a beer of Wyck. But also Rosemary, I mean, she's going to be chain smoking at that bar. She's going to have some stories to tell you.
I mean, I love them all equally, but to grab a beer with, I got to say Rosemary.
TAPPER: Rosemary.
DIPPOLD: Wyck, too. It's close. It's close. It's very hard. It's tough to answer these types of questions.
TAPPER: Thank you for bringing so much joy into --
DIPPOLD: Thank you so much.
TAPPER: -- like when I pitched this to my wife, I said it's supposed to be great. I don't know anything about it, but it's supposed to be scary and she hates scary.
DIPPOLD: Yeah. TAPPER: She loves the show.
DIPPOLD: That's -- so I keep hearing this from people. I have friends that hate horror, but they -- I think the horror in this aims to delight you.
TAPPER: Yes.
DIPPOLD: Not make you feel bad.
TAPPER: Right.
DIPPOLD: It's sort of bleak. But we are trying to scare you, but we want you to have a good time.
TAPPER: Oh, you succeed. The clown, especially the clown.
Katie Dippold, thank you so much for being here.
DIPPOLD: Thank you for having me.
TAPPER: If you ever missed an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now, and the season finale of "Widow's Bay", I think, drops tomorrow.
Thanks for watching.
