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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump: We Have Pictures Of Alleged Reflecting Pool Vandalism; Federal Judge Throws Out Federal Subpoenas Targeting Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz (D-MN) And Allies; Trump Says, Preventing Iran From Having Nuclear Weapon Supersedes Risk Of Economic Depression; Newsom Stands By Biden As Dem Governor Courts Support For 2028; Iconic Music Producer Clive Davis Dies At 94. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired June 22, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And welcome to The Lead.

[18:00:00]

I'm Anderson Cooper in for Jake Tapper.

This hour, the White House dispatching Secretary of State Marco Rubio to the Middle East as Vice President J.D. Vance returns to the U.S. after negotiations with Iran. Question is the -- well, there is still confusion and conflicting statements tonight about whether the Strait of Hormuz is actually open, and questions about the future of Iran's nuclear program. I'll talk to a Republican lawmaker, what he's hearing from the Trump administration ahead.

Also, President Trump now threatening ten years in prison for anyone he says is damaging federal property after he claimed, without evidence, that the Reflecting Pool was vandalized. That pool now having to be drained again after it filled with algae just days after Trump's $14 million renovations were allegedly completed. CNN is on the National Mall with the update on the progress.

Plus, a federal judge today throwing out the Trump Justice Department subpoenas at Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and other Democrats, calling those unconstitutional and retaliatory. We're breaking down what comes next in this legal battle.

And music industry titan Clive Davis has died at the age of 94. Known for producing icons from Janis Joplin to Whitney Houston, Billy Joel, Davis was dubbed the man with the golden ears. We'll have a tribute to his life and legacy ahead.

The Lead tonight, President Trump now claiming there's photo evidence that vandals are behind the swampy reopening of the Lincoln Reflecting Pool after his costly renovation, a multi-million dollar pet project he's been touting for close to two months ahead of celebrations in the capital for America's 250th anniversary.

So far, five people have been arrested with more given citations for allegedly tampering with the peeling material inside the algae-filled Reflecting Pool so far. The president defended his project again this afternoon. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I can't help it if somebody goes in with a knife and starts hacking it up. And we also have pictures of it, you know. We have pictures.

REPORTER: Can you release the photos? We've been asking for them.

TRUMP: Yes, at the right time you'll see it. You'll see it in court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: CNN's Sunlen Serfaty went down to the Reflecting Pool today for a look at this evolving mess.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: You're going to have something you're going to be very proud of.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A peeling bottom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's still not fixed. And it is, it's disappointing.

SERFATY: Arrests for alleged vandalism, a high-profile lawsuit, and one $14 million green-hued pool. The president's Reflecting Pool makeover is now overflowing with controversy.

TRUMP: We did a hell of a job, but everybody's looking at that Reflecting Pool.

SERFATY: And yet, 18 days after the pool was filled with water after the initial renovation, President Trump is now saying the pool will likely need to be shut down and drained again, blaming it on what he says are vandals that have forced a new round of repairs.

Administration officials say the police have made several arrests at the Reflecting Pool alleging vandalism, including three-time U.S. Olympian David Hearn, who says he was arrested after touching a flap of blue material partially detached from the bottom of the pool.

DAVID HEARN, FORMER U.S. OLYMPIAN: I took my left hand glove off and reached down into the water and sort of felt the end and bent it around a little bit.

SERFATY: Hearn denies vandalizing the pool and says he was cited with destruction and defacing government property and disobeying a government employee.

JEANINE PIRRO, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: There are several citations that have been handed out to individuals, and these are cases that will be prosecuted to the full extent.

SERFATY: On Truth Social, without evidence, the president wrote, they took some form of knife or blade and put a 250-foot-long gash into the beautiful facade of what took so much work, competence and money to build and complete. He added, quote, they also poured corrosive and destructive materials into the pool.

Tampering with federal property carries a prison sentence of up to ten years in federal court.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've never seen this many National Guards in the National Park area. They came up to me and two other women asking if we've touched it, and then just promoting us not to, that we would get arrested or, and charged with vandalism if we did.

SERFATY: President Trump and the U.S. attorney in D.C. have been very clear they intend to push forward to penalize those accused of wrongdoing as much as possible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SERFATY (on camera): And earlier today, we saw several trailers come in and start unloading equipment down here at the Reflecting Pool. You'll see some of it behind me. These are actually security cameras that workers confirmed. There are at least six security cameras that will be now set up on the Reflecting Pool with 360-degree views, they tell us.

Meantime, the president has convened a meeting with his contractors, not only talking about draining the pool, but making, he says, the necessary repairs. Anderson?

COOPER: Sunlen Serfaty at the Reflecting Pool, thank you.

Joining me now is Matt Viser from The Atlantic. Matt, you have been speaking to algae experts about the -- you've become an algae expert really yourself, but you've been speaking to algae experts about the growth in the reflecting pool, about the Trump administration's efforts to contain the algae.

You write, after a week of combat, they have essentially killed off one type of algae infesting the pool only to create the conditions for a new type to take over.

[18:05:06]

What did you learn about what is going on?

MATT VISER, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: So, this occurred last week. I started to get frustrated. Nobody could tell me what kind of algae was growing in the pool. And so we had two samples that were sent off to two different researchers so that we could test the algae and determine that it was a genus called Scenedesmus, which, as of last week, I did not know that name. So, we're all learning things here.

It is a green algae that has taken over from what seemed to be a blue- green algae that can be toxic that was there earlier in the week in some of the photos, and clearly identified by these researchers. And which may have led -- I mean, we've seen some of the ducks and the wildlife down there killed over the past few days, which could have been from the toxic algae.

COOPER: So, is this new algae as toxic?

VISER: No, it's not as toxic but it is rapidly growing. It's thicker than one of the researchers we consulted with had ever seen. So, I think the new algae is just able to grow much at a much faster rate, in part because of the hydrogen peroxide that National Park Service workers poured into the water last week, which did seem to effectively kill off the blue-green algae that is more toxic.

COOPER: But that hydrogen peroxide, and we saw bottles of it being poured in, that has actually led to this other algae?

VISER: Yes, it's created the conditions where now this other algae doesn't have to compete for nutrients with another type. And so it's been able to flourish in the water and create the different colors that we're seeing in the Reflecting Pool.

COOPER: The owner of the company that did the waterproof lining of the pool and the interior department deflected the blame for the algae when you reached them. Did your experts suggest any of the changes President Trump made with the paint and the lining would be contributing to this particular bloom of algae?

VISER: In part, yes. I mean, Trump and this whole project have put this as like an incubator for algae to grow. The darker material at the base allows it to warm up a little bit easier in the water. So, it's created the conditions for the algae through this project to have it flourish in a much more rapid environment.

COOPER: And in terms of the chances of fixing the algae issue, I mean, do you think the pool will be fixed up to the president's standards by July 4th weekend?

VISER: No. At least according to the people that we've been talking to, it needs to be cooler weather. And the water -- you know, if they drain the water, they'll need to retest and put some water in there that has fewer nutrients where algae can flourish.

But, really, I mean, one of the people I talked to said if you were going to create an environment for algae to grow, you would have it in just this type of environment, that you have a shallow pool a lot of water, and a hot environment. And it's almost the perfect scenario to have algae be blooming in this Reflecting Pool.

COOPER: Wow. Matt Viser, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

VISER: Thank you.

COOPER: I want to bring in Norm Eisen. He's the attorney representing former U.S. Olympian David Hearn, who was arrested Friday for allegedly tampering with the Reflecting Pool. We should note Norm investigated Trump as counsel to House Judiciary Committee in the first impeachment of the trial of Donald Trump and litigated cases involving him previously. So, Norm, can you just give us a recap of what your client, what David was doing on Friday when he was arrested? What does he say he was doing?

NORM EISEN, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING DAVID HEARN: David is, as you know, Anderson, a decorated Olympian. He was on a long bike ride, as thousands of people do a day. As a concerned citizen, he went to check out this mess that Donald Trump has created of the Reflecting Pool.

He did not break the law. He did nothing that in a more normal time or even a few days ago was unusual. And every American should be concerned at these kinds of crackdowns by the administration. There's been a long pattern of this administration targeting innocent individuals, Attorney General Tish James, FBI Director Jim Comey.

COOPER: Well, so the president --

EISEN: Davey is the latest.

COOPER: The president said that somebody cut a 250-foot thing with a knife, that other people have been tampering with knives.

[18:10:00]

Did your client use any tool to peel off anything?

EISEN: No. No, of course not, Anderson. And there'll be ample proof he could not have dragged a 250-foot knife line down this pool. He did nothing unusual, nothing different. It appears that law enforcement was there in order to find an excuse for the president to make these claims without evidence, Anderson.

But we're talking about real human lives here and --

COOPER: So, let me just ask, when he was arrested, did he have any large paint chips on him? I mean, these are questions I never thought I would be asking, but -- or any piece of the lining?

EISEN: No, of course not, Anderson. This is a meritless prosecution. We will get into all the details in court. Every American should be concerned about this kind of thing. And, of course, as you pointed out, there's no evidence for the things that the president has said.

Anderson, is my client responsible for those horrendous algae blooms, or creating this perfect storm in the pool, or having a composite material that is coming up off the bottom of the pool? Of course not. He's a cyclist who was going by, a concerned citizen, curious as Americans are about this mess.

COOPER: What happened over the course of the five hours that he was held?

EISEN: Well, he was wrongly detained and he was eventually released, as they must do. He was issued misdemeanor citations. And we'll be back in court to contest those. He's innocent. He's done nothing wrong, and it's terrible that they're doing this to American people with these baseless charges, Anderson.

By the way, he's represented our country. He's a decorated Olympian. He did nothing improper, illegal, or wrong in this situation, and profoundly concerning.

COOPER: And let me just ask you, the president has said there are photos. He wasn't specifying, as I understand, I don't believe he was specifying your client in particular. Do you believe there are any photos which would implicate your client?

EISEN: There are no -- my client did nothing wrong. He broke no laws. There are no photos that implicate him in any wrongdoing. Anderson, people have been checking out what is going on in that corrupt mess at the Reflecting Pool made on a no-bid contract with one of Donald Trump's cronies from Mar-a-Lago involved in the affair, and blame is being cast about.

Davey did nothing wrong here. And it should be concerning to every American that someone who does nothing wrong who goes by the Reflecting Pool can be treated this way by the authorities.

COOPER: Like the algae, the blame is spreading.

Norm Eisen, I appreciate it. Thank you.

The Justice Department may soon be able to release potentially embarrassing audio recordings of former President Joe Biden soon unless the courts step in. We'll explain that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

COOPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, new court rulings could clear the way for the Justice Department to release additional audio recordings of former President Joe Biden speaking with his ghostwriter, this time from 2016 and 2017. Republicans have argued the recordings that raise some questions about Biden's memory and mental acuity years before his presidency.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz joins us now. So, what are the key legal hurdles standing between these recordings and the public release?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, right now it is Joe Biden trying to go to the courts to somehow convince them that these tapes should be private, that he spoke about private things with his ghostwriter in 2016 and 2017.

The ghostwriter, he was writing, or helping Biden with his memoir, Promise Me, Dad. That was the memoir that Biden released about the death of his son, Beau, and his decision subsequently not to run for president in that pivotal election.

These interviews that came right after his vice presidency, and Joe Biden has argued to the courts that he has a privacy interest here, that a group like The Heritage Foundation, which is seeking these under a public records transparency law, that they should not be able to make this sort of argument and just get something that was personal to Biden and then collected in a criminal investigation that was later done by Robert Hur, which looked at these tapes and whether Biden had improperly disclosed national security information in them. Biden wasn't charged.

But this is a moment, too, where Joe Biden can point out that he believes that not just The Heritage Foundation, but also conservatives, including those on Capitol Hill, that they want to retaliate against him, that they don't like him, that they want to expose him, and that part of this is something that he says they shouldn't be able to do because when he was president, his Justice Department was keeping these tapes secret.

Now, Anderson, the judge at the lower court here, Judge Dabney Friedrich, she listened to these audio recordings from 2016, 2017, and she said this actually isn't covering that much of the sensitive topics. And not only The Heritage Foundation could get them, but it's quite possible that a committee on Capitol Hill could also get them and release them.

[18:20:00]

COOPER: Well, also today, a federal judge has thrown out Justice Department grand jury subpoenas aimed at Minnesota's Governor Tim Walz, his allies. What happened there?

POLANTZ: Well, in that case, that is a judge looking at subpoenas that were issued to the offices of essentially Democratic officials in Minnesota during the surge of immigration enforcement, federal immigration enforcement last winter. The judge is looking at those subpoenas and saying they were blatantly unlawful. They were unethical to be issued. It was an abuse of the grand jury process in Minnesota by the federal Justice Department, the Trump administration going after these Democratic officials, including the governor, Tim Walz, and that there was no plausible investigative justification for anything to be sent or for a grand jury to be looking into these officials.

The judge looked at what the record was publicly, what Donald Trump had said, what the attorney general had said at the time, and what the judge saw was that they wanted to pressure, coerce, harass, and retaliate against the Democrats in those offices rather than have a legitimate reason to investigate them and issue them subpoenas for documents in January of this year.

COOPER: All right. Katelyn Polantz, thanks very much. I appreciate it.

He's known as The Tiger and holds a U.S. passport, but now this Trump- backed candidate could soon be the next leader of Colombia. We'll go there live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00] COOPER: In our World Lead, a far-right candidate endorsed by President Trump is set to become Colombia's next president. CNN's Stefano Pozzebon reports on the former criminal lawyer nicknamed The Tiger. He represents a dramatic political shift for the country as he prepares to succeed the outgoing president, Gustavo Petro.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR (voice over): This is when MAGA politics meets Latin American soccer.

Abelardo de la Espriella narrowly edged ahead in Colombia's presidential election on Sunday thanks in part to a campaign that leaned into spectacle, flashy A.I.-generated content, and the tiger imagery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Petro and Cepeda, by disregarding the verdict of the ballot boxes, you are not challenging The Tiger. You are challenging millions of citizens who freely gave victory to Jose Manuel and me.

POZZEBON: The Tiger is his self-appointed nickname to signify his uncompromising approach to crime, while casting Colombia's establishment as a swamp. If it sounds familiar, it is. De la Espriella is a U.S. citizen who used to work in Miami and has close ties to the Florida Republican Party.

President Donald Trump endorsed him ahead of the vote, and has already congratulated him as president-elect, even though Colombia's electoral authorities are still counting the ballots.

This vote follows the ascent of other right-wing leaders across Latin America, from El Salvador's Nayib Bukele to Argentina's Javier Milei, both Trump allies who promised a radical new image of their countries.

De la Espriella has no experience in office, and he cultivated an image of a successful entrepreneur with a personal brand of rum and a passionate singer of Italian lyrics, his supporters all too happy to vote for a Trump lookalike.

NORLIS ARTETA, ABELARDO DE LA ESPRIELLA SUPPORTER: I have the U.S. flag because I love this country, its order, its culture, everything about it.

When I heard that Trump, our President Trump, was going to support Abelardo, I said, he is the one. That's it. Why? Because there's no progress without order.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

POZZEBON (on camera): And, Anderson, you can probably understand given the stakes here in Colombia that this country's really edging into hours of tensions, perhaps days of tension before the electoral authorities can finally publish the final results. So, for example, this morning the left-wing candidate, Ivan Cepeda, announced that he has appealed the results from 57,000 electoral seats. Hopefully, it will not take too long of a time to get to these results. Anderson?

COOPER: All right. Stefano, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

President Trump was asked today if he's willing to risk a worldwide economic depression by striking Iran if the agreement falls apart. Hear his answer next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

COOPER: In our Politics Lead this afternoon, President Trump was asked if he would be willing to risk a worldwide economic depression to strike Iran again. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, not the way I'm doing it. It's not going to cause depression.

REPORTER: Yes, but if they don't abide by the memorandum of understanding?

TRUMP: Well, nuclear weapon supersedes depression. Depression's real bad. Nuclear weapon will cause depression much more quickly. The way we're doing it, we have the opposite of a depression.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Joining us now, Republican Congressman from Indiana Marlin Stutzman. Congressman, I appreciate you being here. What do you make of those comments from President Trump?

REP. MARLIN STUTZMAN (R-IN): Anderson, great to be with you this evening. I think that it's really a delicate balance here to be sure that we get the, you know, Strait of Hormuz secured, making sure, of course, that Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapon, and also, you know, there's things here at home that we have to address as well.

Of course, the gas prices are still on top of people's minds as they, you know, are facing higher prices. Republicans have done a really good job, of course, of focusing on affordability. But the president has a tough job, especially dealing with the IRGC, which continues to move the goalpost. But I'm hoping that this MOU sticks, and I believe that President Trump has done a remarkable job of bringing them to the table.

COOPER: The president has said he thinks that this -- the current regime is less radical than the previous. Do you think that's true?

STUTZMAN: Well, we'll see. You know, the ayatollah, of course, is dead. I believe that the son is likely dead as well, but we'll find out. You know, this is a very brutal regime, one that has continued to show that they are zealots, that they are -- they're true believers that could die for their beliefs. And one of the things that I think is important, too, is that we keep, you know, the relationship with Israel, that there's no daylight between the United States and Israel as we deal with this. Hezbollah is an extension of the IRGC, and they're all backed into a corner right now.

So, President Trump has them in a tough spot.

[18:35:00]

We need to continue to put the pressure on and force them. Ultimately, I'd like to see the IRGC replaced, but that's a very difficult task, and it's going to take one that takes a broader coalition of countries working together to accomplish that.

COOPER: Vice President Vance said this weekend's negotiations were very good. He said he got Iran to allow nuclear monitors in. Hours later, Iran said, actually, nothing will change, and the United Nations nuclear watchdog will not be entering the country. How does this -- or how does the U.S., I guess, move forward with these negotiations if this keeps happening? There's daylight between what the administration is saying and what the Iranians are saying.

STUTZMAN: Yes. I think, again, you know, they're so good at propaganda from the IRGC, and that we're going to have to continue just to move forward and do what it's going to take to be sure that they don't have nuclear capabilities. The IRGC is in disarray. Obviously, there's -- I'm sure there's a power struggle within their entire coalition or their -- inside their leadership group. They've got a lot to figure out themselves.

So, I think that we've got the pressure on them. We need to continue to keep the pressure on. But making sure that the Strait of Hormuz is opened up for free flow of traffic is a really important piece to all of this as well, because it does affect our economy.

And I know, you know, the IRGC knows they can use that against us. But making sure ultimately the first objective is no nuclear capability and keeping the Strait of Hormuz opened up for free flow is just as important. And the president is going to continue to put the pressure on wherever he can to make sure that happens.

COOPER: I'm wondering what you're hearing from your constituents in Indiana. A new CBS News/YouGov poll shows 78 percent of Americans said they prefer to end the war now. I know you told Fox earlier Republicans who don't like the president's handling of this need to, quote, just relax. It seems like a majority of Americans don't want to wait this out. What are you hearing in Indiana?

STUTZMAN: You know, it's really mixed, Anderson. You know, if you talk to folks who are older, you know, north of 40 years of age, they tell me, we got to finish the job. This has been going on too long. Iran has been at war with us since 1979, and with the west. Also, you know, younger people are -- have a mixed opinion of it.

And so I think that we have to do what's right and do the job that needed to be done for a long time. Obviously, it's going to be one of those things where we're going to have to walk and chew gum at the same time. We can still focus on the economic issues here at home that a lot of people are concerned about and making sure that the results are accomplished in the Middle East with Iran. We've come this far.

I'd just hate to see us lose any sort of ground, and making sure that Israel has the ability to defend itself against Hezbollah. Hezbollah's is also a real problem, and Iran is using Hezbollah as leverage during these discussions.

So, the MOU is critically important. It's going to take some time, but I think we're on the right track.

COOPER: That discussion of what happens to Hezbollah, that's been pushed basically down the road. That can has been kicked down the road, and Iran shows no sign of, in any way, cleaving itself from supporting Hezbollah.

STUTZMAN: Well, you know, we've known for a long time that Hezbollah is a proxy of Iran, and they continue to attack Israel. That's where I believe that, you know, Israel has to have the ability to defend itself.

I was just on the northern border a couple of weeks ago and saw where Hezbollah is attacking farmers there on the northern side of Israel. And if they're going to be killing, you know, whether it's Israelis, Israeli soldiers, Israel has every right to strike back and to defend the country.

So, I think that's one of the things that's important as the president goes through the negotiations. You know, as I've been told by many folks in Israel that President Trump has been the strongest president for Israel in a long time.

And so I know that we're all on the same page. We're on -- you know, we want to see the outcome be, you know, favorable for all of us involved, their safety and security there. And the president's leading, and I know that he's going to be sure that the job gets done right.

COOPER: Congressman from Indiana, Marlin Stutzman, thanks so much. I appreciate your time.

STUTZMAN: Thank you, Anderson, great to be with you.

COOPER: As he prepares for a potential 2028 presidential campaign, California Governor Gavin Newsom is defending former President Joe Biden in a way that many others in his party are not. Our panel weighs in next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

COOPER: We are back now with the Politics Lead. Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni is now skipping the U.S. Embassy's annual July 4th party in Rome this year, her feud with President Trump over a supposed selfie moment continuing to escalate.

My panel is here with me now. Alyssa, why does this continue? Over the weekend, Trump doubled down on his claim that Meloni begged him for a picture, going on in a post saying that she's, quote, doing poorly because she turned down the United States of America, a country that truly loves and protects Italy, when it came to denying Iran from obtaining or developing a nuclear weapon. How do you see this spat going?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, it's a strange development, because I think a lot of folks thought Giorgia Meloni would be somewhat aligned with Donald Trump. She's leans to the right in Italy, but she's somebody who's been very pro-Ukraine, has been strong against Iran, and I think sees this new deal as a mistake.

But I think the fact that she's being so forthright in her criticisms, and even put out this video kind of clapping back, shows that people realize Donald Trump's very close to being a lame duck president. Even European leaders are realizing that this sort of having to suck up to him that we've seen for the last two years is kind of starting to end, and I think this is one of those first salvos in it. Is it silly? Yes. But it points to a bigger moment that's happening.

COOPER: Paul, also in that message, she's taking a jab at NATO, obviously.

PAUL RIECKHOFF, HOST, INDEPENDENT AMERICANS PODCAST: Yes, and I think that's the bigger message is that Trump is toxic, and nobody wants their picture taken with him anymore if you want to get support back home. And that's going to be especially true in Europe, where NATO is a valuable ally and always been so strong with the U.S., and Trump continues to trash NATO over and over again.

[18:45:05]

So this is an appeal, I think, to the populism and the patriotism of the people in Italy, but it does reflect the broader outrage that Europe has with Trump and particularly his stance on NATO. It's not a long path for him to get increased popularity in Europe. I think he's going to hear a lot more boos if he goes and visits.

COOPER: Well, also the NATO secretary general is coming to Washington this week. I mean, no doubt this will come up as well.

CHRISTINE QUINN, EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE CHAIR, NEW YORK STATE DEMOCRATIC COMMITTEE: One would think. One would think it'll definitely come up. And it's not like this attack against NATO is a one-off on Donald Trump. He has been beating that drum repeatedly in both of his terms. And to beat that drum and then at the same time be in a war that there really was no ever justification for, and for him to raise with the prime minister that she wasn't for getting rid of a nuclear weapon in Iran, have we actually done that with this war, right? Or didn't we do that in June but then we didn't do it?

So -- I mean, in November, so I think it makes no sense and also let's not forget with the prime minister, Donald Trump attacked the pope. That is unpopular in Italy. Whether the pope is an American or Italian or from anywhere else, you don't attack the pope. And she is also responding to that.

COOPER: Yeah. Well, it's interesting. You hear Gavin Newsom, potential, obviously, frontrunner for the presidency, defending Joe Biden in a way that a lot of other Democrats aren't. I just want to play some of what he's been saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: Never turn my back on Joe Biden. Our former president, who I think was one of the most successful presidents in the last century, and that is Joe Biden. And I will defend that to my grave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Alyssa, what do you think the strategy is here? Because Gavin Newsom has a strategy, it seems, for a lot of stuff.

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Gavin Newsom is not someone who does things lightly. There's polling and there's strategy behind everything. I would say two things. When you compare his numbers to other likely front-runner Kamala Harris, he polls about 25 points higher with older voters, 65-plus, among Democrats.

And I think those voters are very likely to have a lot more sympathy, empathy, and sort of love for Joe Biden, someone who's been in public life for 40 years. I think he sees this as a way to align himself I also think it's potentially a way to force Kamala Harris to decide where she's going to come down on this issue.

The smartest thing she could do is run as far from possible as Biden in this campaign going ahead, and he's kind of getting out out-front and forcing her to do that.

RIECKHOFF: I think he's also trying to appeal to the middle and look less liberal, which has always been his problem. He's always going to be the good-looking California liberal, and he's going to have a really hard time reaching independents and moderate Republicans. I think this is a clumsy way to do it. I don't think it's going to work. I think it comes off as inauthentic.

And I also don't think Biden's popularity is strong right now with independents and moderate Republicans, but I think that's what it's all about, trying to position himself consistently more moderate than he is, because a California Democrat is toast with independents in the years ahead.

QUINN: And, you know, Newsom has a problem that Hillary Clinton had. The independents and the right think she's -- think he is too liberal, but the progressives and the liberal don't think he's progressive or liberal enough, so he's just losing, losing.

So I think this -- I think you're right. It's about reaching out to older voters and maybe putting a squeeze on Kamala Harris, but I don't think it works out in the end, because if he ends up the nominee, that's going to be a very hard position to justify in the general election.

COOPER: If Kamala Harris runs, what does she do in that --

GRIFFIN: If you read her book, it's hard to tell. Listen, she has advisors around her saying she needs to come out and say she would have approached Gaza differently, saying she needed to break away from Biden, be more direct in what she would have done differently. I suppose that that's likely what she will do if she ends up running. So I think she's going to take the lane of sort of anti-Biden if she gets in.

COOPER: It's kind of -- it's a terrible situation for her either way.

GRIFFIN: It's a totally uncomfortable position. And by the way, to Paul's point, like, I don't think running, embracing Biden helps anyone. This is an interesting move. But if you're trying to get independents, young people, people who feel like this administration took them the wrong direction, embracing Biden is not the way.

RIECKHOFF: I think if Kamala Harris runs again, what happens is she loses badly again, even more so than last time. Even Democrats are sick of her. And at this point, Democrats have to come up with a new playbook and new faces, especially if they want to appeal young people and independents.

COOPER: There's also a report in "Politico" about another possible 2028 hopeful Arizona Senator Ruben Gallego, a review of campaign finance records, found that he, quote, "has used his leadership PAC to fund recent trips to Miami, Chicago, Disneyland, and Disney World with his family." Gallego, according to the 'Politico", has tapped that PAC and his main campaign committee for more than $18,000 in reimbursements for child care since 2019, including $400 to his wife's mother for babysitting.

Gallego telling "Politico" in a statement, this is not breaking news with the rising cost of child care and the burden it has in the budgets of American families, Democrats and Republicans in Congress and the White House alike regularly travel with their wives and children, as is permitted by the FEC.

I should also point out the FEC candidate -- they say that candidate committees can pay for childcare as long as they are for personal use, but PACs do not even have that limitation on them.

[18:50:03]

Is this a problem you think?

QUINN: I do think it's a problem because one of the things that we Democrats have as it relates to Trump is hitting him and everyone associated with him on corruption and making the swamp swampier, not less swampy. So if you're a Democrat, you want to be crossing the T's and dotting the I's. Whether it's legal or not, under federal election rules, I can't

really say, but it does not pass the smell test. It is not smart. The Democrats need to stay squeaky, squeaky clean as it relates to corruption so we can hold on to that issue.

COOPER: You think --

GRIFFIN: I mean, listen, of the issues dogging Gallego, I think this is a lesser issue than his associations with Eric Swalwell out of the governor's race. I like Ruben Gallego but they were extremely close. He's reportedly hired a -- you know, a PR firm that's supposed to help him navigate --

COOPER: He's denied any denied knowledge.

GRIFFIN: -- any wrongdoing but that's going to be something that's going to continue to dog him there's going to be more questions and I think that's a bigger concern for his ambition.

RIECKHOFF: And also just being disconnected from the people going to the Super Bowl, having lavish parties. We're in this environment where populists and people across the country want to eat the rich. When you look like you're hanging out at the Super Bowl and spending money on frivolous things, you look a lot like the Trump White House. I'm sure if he hasn't already, Trump's going to pounce on this and start slamming him pretty soon and saying both sides, it's going to resonate with people. This is why they hate politics.

COOPER: Yeah.

Paul Rieckhoff, appreciate it. Christine Quinn, Alyssa Griffin, thanks so much.

Coming up, remembering the man known as the man with the golden ears, legendary music executive Clive Davis died at 94. Bruce Springsteen, Aretha Franklin, Notorious B.I.G., the industry titan helped launch and shape generations of music stars -- a look back at his remarkable legacy in the music.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:56:06]

COOPER: Legendary record producer Clive Davis has died at the age of 94. He was known for helping launch and shape the careers of artists, including Whitney Houston and Billy Joel.

CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister brings us more in his extraordinary legacy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLIVE DAVIS, ICONIC MUSIC PRODUCER: I never thought in a million years that I would discover artists. I don't read music. I don't play music. It's just in the gut.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Janis Joplin, Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston, the Grateful Dead, Bruce Springsteen, Santana, and the list goes on. Clive Davis, known as the man with the golden ears, either discovered them or help catapult them into music superstardom.

DAVIS: My parents died when I was a late teenager. I had no money. To rise above the station, I studied law to become a lawyer. The fates were good. Luck was in my way, and the firm that I went to work for represented Columbia Records.

I became their general counsel for five years. And then overnight, I was made head of the company.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): His knack for finding talent was almost immediately evident.

DAVIS: From the signing of Janice Joplin and Donovan and Blood, Sweat and Tears and Santana and then Chicago, and when they all hit one after another, and I was there making that judgment, and I saw them all come through. It obviously gave me confidence to keep going.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): And not only did Davis find all the right artists, he also found them the right songs.

DAVIS: Regarding Whitney, I discovered her when she was 19, and we embarked on this odyssey, breaking every record.

(MUSIC)

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): That song convinced Davis Houston was a superstar.

DAVIS: That's a song I commissioned for the life of Muhammad Ali eight years earlier. And there's this young teenager singing "The Greatest Love of All" like I never heard it before.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Davis was born in Brooklyn, New York, in 1932. In a career spanning more than 50 years, he won four Grammy Awards, a Grammy Trustee Award, and was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2000.

Davis married twice and had four children. In 2013, he released a memoir called "The Soundtrack of My Life". In it, he revealed that he was bisexual.

DAVIS: I opened myself up to the possibility of having a relationship with a person rather than a gender.

WAGMEISTER (voice-over): In one of his final sit-down interviews, Davis told me what he was most proud of.

WAGMEISTER: What do you want people to remember you by? What is your legacy?

DAVIS: My legacy is that I discovered or nurtured an unusual array of the most gifted artists of all time, and that they felt safe. But to see that they were still headlining arenas all over the world, and were not one-hit wonders, was such a great feeling.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Wagmeister joins us now from Los Angeles.

His legacy is somewhat complicated by scrutiny he faced later in life.

WAGMEISTER: Yes, Anderson. So Clive Davis, make no mistake, an absolute legend in the music industry. But he was a cofounder of Sean Combs's Bad Boy Records. He financially backed that label. And of course, the two shared a great deal of professional success.

So as Diddy then faced criminal charges, Clive Davis faced some scrutiny. But as I said, make no mistake, he was a living legend up until the very end. Anderson, you know all about Clive Davis's Grammy's weekend party. And just this year, a few months ago, he threw that party and it drew everyone from Mariah Carey to J.Lo to Nancy Pelosi, who was a staple at that party. I went and covered for a few years and a who's who was there, Anderson.

COOPER: Elizabeth Wagmeister, thanks very much.

An incredible life he had.

Later tonight, I'll speak with music icon Stevie Wonder about the career and the life of Clive Davis. I'll see you at 8:00 p.m. Eastern for "AC360".

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.