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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Sen. Roger Marshall (R-KS), Is Interviewed About Senate Panel Votes To Hold Fauci In Contempt Of Congress; Sen. Tim Kaine (D-VA), Is Interviewed About U.S. Boat Strike Casualties Are "Murder Victims"; Vance Attends Senate GOP Lunch To Talk Funding Bill & SAVE Act. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired August 06, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ELIE HONIG, FORMER ASST. U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF N.Y.: We avoided firing, according to our reporting, who got publicly lambasted by Trump for, quote, "folding like an umbrella." It's hard for me to envision her saying, you know what, I've thought about this carefully and I'm not going to prosecute Dr. Fauci. That would shock me.

I guess I'm shocked sometimes, but that would really shock me. So it wouldn't surprise me if they charged Dr. Fauci, and it wouldn't surprise me if that case fails.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Every time I'm shocked. I wonder why I'm shocked because everything is just consistently shocking all the time.

All right, thanks to all of you for being here. Really appreciate it. Don't go anywhere. "The Lead with Jake Tapper" starts right.

[17:00:37]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: This is a serious question. Could Dr. Anthony Fauci end up behind bars? The Lead starts right now.

Breaking with norms and straight down party lines. Republicans in the Senate vote to hold Dr. Anthony Fauci in contempt of Congress after Fauci invoked his Fifth Amendment right in testimony last week more than 100 times. But now the committee referral is bypassing the full Senate. And in an unusual move going directly to the Justice Department, a doctor turned Republican senator is here to weigh in.

And President Trump irked over dwindling missile stockpiles. But it's not the stockpile problem that has him upset. Instead, it's the fact that you know about it. What brand new CNN reporting reveals today.

Plus, Cyclospora and now salmonella, foodborne outbreaks spreading in the U.S. tied to tainted produce, the restaurants impacted, and fears of government cuts being of the problem.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. And we begin with our Politics Lead. A major political and legal fight is on after Republican members of the Senate Homeland Security Committee earlier today voted to hold Dr. Anthony Fauci in contempt of Congress. This is because Fauci pleaded the Fifth more than 100 times in the hearing on the COVID response last Wednesday.

Committee Chairman Rand Paul, senator from Kentucky, is taking the unusual step of bypassing a full Senate vote on the matter, one that Senator Paul would almost certainly not win. It has been a journey on his way out the door in 2021 on January 19, President Trump awarded Dr. Fauci a presidential commendation for his work on the Operation Warp Speed Task Force, which delivered the vaccine in record time. Indeed, the millions of lives saved by warp speed are worthy of a commendation of Fauci and President Trump. But here we are five years later. How did we get here?

Dr. Fauci led the COVID pandemic response in the U.S. as a top adviser to Trump. But Senator Paul and others have long blamed Fauci, not the president who was actually in charge, for issues related to COVID. Namely, many of them allege Fauci orchestrated a cover up of the origins of the coronavirus, which Fauci denies and which has not been established as a fact. Republicans have also bristled at Fauci's guidance on shutdowns, ignoring that the President was giving the same advice, as well as allegations that Fauci instructed some staff on corresponding through private channels to avoid public records gained through the Freedom of Information Act requests.

Now, in that hearing last week on the U.S. Pandemic Response, Fauci was worried, sources tell us, that his responses would be used by Rand Paul and other Republicans in an attempt to bring charges against him for alleged perjury if he said anything that wasn't 100 percent accurate. So his lawyers advised Fauci to take the Fifth. One person close to Fauci saying, quote, "There was no other option. Rand Paul has millions of documents that he could bring up over a 50-year career. Fauci has nothing in front of him," unquote.

But remember, former President Joe Biden gave Fauci a blanket preemptive pardon on his way out the door. Now, Senator Paul, the chairman of the committee, says because of that pardon, Fauci cannot face any legal trouble regarding his past COVID actions and therefore he's legally not permitted to refuse to answer questions. That's also disputed.

Here's Democratic Senator Gary Peters, the committee's ranking Democrat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI): If this committee now seeks to punish a witness for asserting their constitutional protected Fifth Amendment rights, future witnesses will argue that appearing before Congress exposes them to punishment regardless of they -- whether they comply with the subpoena.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And yet that is what the committee did, voting to hold Fauci in contempt of Congress, an eight to five vote down party lines. But because Chairman Paul is skipping the full Senate vote on the floor of the Senate on contempt charges, legal experts say that Rand Paul may be undermining the Justice Department's future ability to charge Fauci. Here's Chairman Paul.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you been in touch with the DOJ and do you have any expectation that they will actually take up this referral?

[17:05:01]

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): I don't know the answer. That's a great question for them. We will hand deliver it today to the attorney general and we will hand deliver it today to the District of Columbia, to the U.S. attorney there. And from there we'll find out.

But this way we don't sit a month waiting to determine whether or not we bring it to the Senate floor. What we will do is it will immediately be referred over. I think it's important for them to look at.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: A conviction on federal contempt charges could carry a sentence of up to one year in prison, from a Trump presidential commendation to possible prison time.

Joining me now, Republican Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas. He practiced medicine in Great Bend for more than 25 years. Also served in the U.S. Army Reserves.

So, Senator, thanks so much for joining us. It seems to a lot of observers that Chairman Paul took this unprecedented step of bypassing a full Senate vote on contempt of Congress because holding Fauci contempt of Congress would actually be a minority view in the Senate. It is not difficult to think of four or five of your Republican colleagues that would not vote to hold him in contempt. How do you respond to the accusation or the suggestion that that's really not how the Senate's supposed to operate?

SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): Well, certainly it's within Chairman Paul's abilities and privileges to do what he's doing. But beyond all this, this is why I think we need a special counsel that the Department of Justice needs to appoint a special counsel to dive into all this. I mean, we haven't even talked about the auto pin yet. This was an auto pin pardon.

What -- how does that come into the area as well? So I think there's a lot out there. And I think to me, more importantly, this is about what's morally right to do, that there was a moral obligation to the million families that lost a loved one, to the 20 million Americans have long COVID to this day. And all just the emotional challenges we have because of those years of the -- of the COVID response. And what we do know is Anthony Fauci clearly lied, misled Congress, he misled the President.

What his diary said was completely different than the advice he was giving the President as well as the American public. TAPPER: What specific layer are you referring to when you say his diary? What his diary said was different than what he was telling the president?

MARSHALL Yes. January 26th, he tells his diary that there's no way that this virus came from a wet market in Wuhan, China. But he goes out publicly and says that it came from nature, that it came from this wet market. And then just four days later, he's meeting with all the gain of function scientists, the top gain of function scientists in the world and 10 of the 12 say that this came from a laboratory. But he never offered that explanation to the President or to the American people. And I think the President's response had been completely different if he'd walked in there and said, look, there's a new virus out there.

It was made in a lab. By the way, America has helped funded the development of this virus. We've been doing this research for decades. We have no idea what this virus is going to look like when it gets out into the world. But we do know that nobody has any immunity to it.

TAPPER: My impression, having interviewed him lots of times and talked to him lots of times during COVID is that he always thought that it was likely from nature, the virus, but he never said it's not man made, that's impossible. He just didn't think that that was likely. And I guess the question is, are these -- are these disagreements about possible facts, about whether or not what was going on in Wuhan the U.S. was actually funding gain of function research or whether the U.S. was funding some other research which allowed Wuhan to do gain of function research? These aren't established facts. These are things that reasonable people can disagree on.

I'm not saying Fauci is wrong and I'm not saying Rand Paul's wrong. I see both of their arguments. Is that really lying if people disagree?

MARSHALL: Jake, what I'm disappointed here is Dr. Fauci didn't tell you about his decades of funding viral gain of function research. That's not in question at all. What he was doing in --

TAPPER: No, but in Wuhan, I mean. In Wuhan and whether or not he was funding Wuhan gain of function research that was about the COVID virus.

MARSHALL: Yes. I just don't think there's any way he wouldn't have known about it. I think he clearly lied to you about all that. He was clearly through Eco health funding this.

When President Obama told him we didn't want to do this type of research anymore, he found some type of loophole to do it. And when that loophole was closed, he took this research out to foreign countries. He orchestrated this. This was his ticket to the Nobel Prize. He thought if he could get this gain of function research done, he was going to get a Nobel Prize.

I think that those are facts. And for him to even begin to deny that this came from a laboratory is beyond the pale to me. He never could show any type of -- TAPPER: I think --

MARSHALL: -- an intermediate species or progenitor of this virus. Just there's a plethora of evidence to say that this virus came from a laboratory and he knew that.

TAPPER: You're a doctor. You know a lot more about medicine and science than I do. But the things you're saying are speculative. He thought he could get a Nobel Prize. I mean, that's not a fact.

[17:10:04]

That's you suggesting that you think that that's likely what was motivating him. But let me ask you a question about this autopen pardon thing.

MARSHALL: Yes.

TAPPER: Because if you're saying that the autopen pardon isn't legitimate, which is again, not established fact, but --

MARSHALL: Right.

TAPPER: -- something that some people believe, and I'm not saying it's not true. I wrote a whole book on Joe Biden. We never found that to be factually definitive. So we didn't include it. But if you think it's true, then doesn't that justify Fauci pleading the Fifth because you're saying the pardon is not legitimate?

MARSHALL: So it does. But I'm saying that needs to go to a special counsel and go to the Supreme Court. There's no way that I could even begin to answer that legal question. And I think if the Supreme Court was on our call tonight that it would be some type of a split decision. But I think there's so many questions here that are going to go unanswered that that's why we need this special counsel and take it out of Washington, take it out of the politics and let the special counsel dive into all these issues, starting with the autopen pardon.

TAPPER: You know, well, forget the autopen pardon, but you're a doctor, and I think -- I think you're right in the sense that there needs to be a serious look at what happened during COVID, what went right, what went wrong, what procedures worked, what procedures didn't, what kind of transparency should have happened and all of that. But I wonder if a 9/11 style commission, not a special counsel, where you're like looking for somebody to charge, but some sort of 9/11 style commission that makes recommendations, that's bipartisan, that could help the U.S. for the next pandemic. Wouldn't that be better in terms of protecting the United States?

MARSHALL: You read my mind, Jake. So Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, a good friend of mine and I had that bill. We've been pushing for that for years. She lived through the 9/11 stuff there in New York herself. And that's what she said from the beginning.

I said, you're right. You're absolutely right. And again, get it out of Washington, that to me, this is what we would call an autopsy, right? You lose a patient, you don't know why. Family members want to know why.

That's why we need a post mortem examination here. And we did make mistakes, we all made mistakes through this process. Let's learn from those mistakes so we could have a better response next time. You're spot on.

TAPPER: All right. Well, I don't know if throwing Fauci in jail gets us there, but let me know when you and Gillibrand want to come on to talk about that bill because I think we need to learn as a country from the mistakes.

Republican Senator Roger Marshall of Kansas. Thank you, sir.

MARSHALL: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: Later, we're going to hear from a Democratic senator on today's party line vote in the committee to hold Dr. Fauci in contempt. Coming up, a special report on The Lead, though, we're going to take a look at exactly who has been killed as the Trump administration targets suspected drug boats in the Caribbean and the Pacific and why one U.S. Senator is calling these attacks and the victims of them murder victims. But first, another Republican senator is calling on Ohio Congressman Max Miller to resign. How Miller is pushing back, sharing text messages and e-mails as he denies accusations that he physically abused his ex-wife and his two year old daughter. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:17:03]

TAPPER: We're back in the Politics Lead. Ohio's other Republican Senator, John Husted, is speaking out about the abuse allegations against Ohio Congressman Max Miller. Writing this afternoon, quote, "Anyone who commits domestic violence is not fit to serve in Congress. I believe Max would be making the right decision to step aside as a candidate and resign from Congress to focus on what is in the best interest of his daughter," unquote.

Moments ago, a different reaction from President Trump, for whom Max Miller, Congressman Miller worked in the White House, when a reporter asked if the president thinks Miller should withdraw from his reelection race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I'm not going to get involved in that. It's a very sad situation and I know Max very well. But it's very, very sad that a situation like that takes place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Congressman Miller denies the accusations that he abused his ex-wife, Emily Moreno, who is the daughter of Husted's colleague, Ohio Republican Senator Bernie Moreno. Senator Moreno told me earlier today, quote, "I sent my daughter, granddaughter and wife out of state to a secure place until such time as they feel safe," unquote, amid the fallout over the allegations. Miller told CNN that that isn't true. He provided e-mails indicating that his ex-wife was communicating with him as to their flight information from Ohio to another state and offering a visit for him, a video visit if she could -- if he could participate a video -- visit with his daughter.

We have reached out to Emily Moreno's representative for comment. CNN's Lauren Fox is on the ground in Ohio 7th Congressional District talking to Miller's constituents.

And Lauren, what are the voters who might ultimately decide the congressman -- congressman's fate? What are they saying?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, just to paint the picture for you here in Ohio 7th district, this is a place that Donald Trump won by more than 10 points just two years ago. This is a solidly Republican district. It is a place that was going to be a very tall order for Democrats here. But I am talking to a lot of Republican voters who are making the case that they have serious questions right now about what they are going to do in November. They have concerns, concerns about these allegations.

They want more answers. They're hoping for more clarity. And while there are many Republicans who say they don't know who to believe right now, they certainly have questions in their mind about whether or not Max Miller is the best person to represent them. And some of them are saying perhaps it might be easier if he just got out of the race so Republican officials could find a new candidate to face off against Brian Poindexter in November.

TAPPER: Lauren, the be all, end all deadline for Congressman Miller to be replaced on the ballot is coming up. Can you explain the difference between this deadline coming up and the deadline that passed this week?

FOX: Yes. So the deadline that passed just a couple of days ago was essentially the deadline for holding a special primary to replace him on the ballot. That means voters would get a say in who was going to be the Republican nominee. What we are talking about now is that if he gets out by August 10, then Republican Party officials can find another candidate to put on the ballot. But after that deadline there is no other change that can happen.

[17:20:21]

If he gets out of this race, then there's no one to run against the Democrat as after August 10th. So you can see why that is such a critical deadline for Republican officials not just here in Ohio 7th district, but also back in Washington at the NRCC where they are eyeing this now as a very potentially competitive race.

TAPPER: August 10th, Monday. Lauren Fox in Medina, Ohio, thank you so much.

Ahead, a head shaking moment for President Trump took the stage in Las Vegas yesterday. Next, the moment the crowd booed when the name of a fallen police officer was mentioned on stage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:25:19]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOE LOMBARDO (R-NV): So I know Pastor Teis spoke about Officer Abdelnabi a few moments ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boo.

LOMBARDO: No, no we're not booing -- we're not booing him. He's the officer that passed away here recently. So.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That was the response that Nevada Governor Joe Lombardo, a Republican, received when asking the crowd at a Trump rally to observe a moment of silence for Las Vegas police officer Austin Abdelnabi, who was killed in the line of duty Tuesday. You heard the boos, presumably because of Abdelnabi's Arabic last name.

A 30-year-old Las Vegas Metropolitan Police officer dedicated his life to serving his country and his community. A native of Greenville, South Carolina. Abdelnabi was also a U.S. Marine Corps veteran who served deployments to Okinawa and Africa before joining the police department. He said he joined the police so he could, quote, "protect and improve the lives of people in any way I can." President Trump also honored Officer Abdelnabi during the rally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It was a big deal, a big story and it should be a big story. And gunned down by a savage criminal at just 30 years old. And Austin died a hero and he will never be forgotten.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: A police escort in procession honoring Officer Abdelnabi was held Wednesday.

A question I put to you, dear viewer, who seems the better citizen, who seems the better patriot, Officer Abdelnabi or the individuals at the Trump rally who booed his name?

To date, the U.S. military has killed more than 200 people in strikes on suspected drug boats in the Caribbean and Pacific. But a U.S. Senator is now arguing the Trump administration has been lying about its objective. And that senator will join us next as The Lead keeps tabs on this story and takes a closer look at the real people behind the death count.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:31:42] TAPPER: Now in our World Lead and the latest installment of our Dead in the Water series on the U.S. boat strikes in the Caribbean and Pacific. Eleven months ago, September 2nd, 2025, the strikes began with Operation Southern Spear.

Now in the last 24 hours we've been told that that mission may be coming to a close replaced by something else. Now here at The Lead we've been compiling victim profiles trying to shed more light on just whom the Trump administration is targeting and killing and why. We sat down with some journalists doing the important investigative work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: They're murder victims.

TAPPER (voice-over): That's Virginia Democratic Senator Tim Kaine's assessment of the Trump administration's campaign targeting people that the administration calls narco-terrorists. In a letter to the White House this week, Kaine accused the Pentagon of going far beyond its original goals in Operation Southern Spear and killing people who are, "Entirely unaware that they are marked for execution."

Operation Southern Spear, which began nearly a year ago, has killed 221 people and destroyed at least 66 vessels. But the results do not seem to have been effective. U.S. Customs and Border Protection data analyzed by the think-tank the Washington Office of Latin America does not show a meaningful decrease in cocaine seizures.

During the 10 months before the boat strikes began, CBP reported seizing more than 56,000 pounds of cocaine. During the 10 months following the beginning of the boat strikes, September 2025 through June 2026, CBP's reported seizures actually increased 2 percent. Fentanyl, which President Trump claims this operation is targeting, is largely produced in Mexico, not Venezuela or Colombia, according to the Drug Enforcement Agency.

And CNN reporting shows military officials do not always know whom they're targeting, some of whom may even be innocent. Chad Joseph and Rishi Samaroo were believed to have been killed in the October 14th strike last year. Their families are suing the Trump administration for wrongful death and extrajudicial killing.

The complaint says, "Mr. Joseph and Mr. Samaroo were not members of or affiliated with drug cartels." And Trinidad's government says, there's no evidence drugs were on board. Chad and Rishi's families told ACLU attorney Jeffrey Stein they were fishing and doing farm work in Venezuela and boarded a boat to get home to Trinidad.

JEFFREY STEIN, STAFF ATTORNEY, ACLU NATIONAL SECURITY PROJECT: Rishi wanted to come home to help care for his elderly mother who had fallen ill. Chad wanted to come home to see his wife and three young children.

TAPPER (voice-over): In response to our request for comment on this lawsuit, the White House said, "All of these decisive strikes have been against designated narco-terrorists bringing deadly poison to our shores." But they have provided absolutely no evidence to back up any of the strikes, which is not to say everyone on these boats had nothing to do with the drug trade. Some were clearly fishermen trying to make extra money.

We sat down with two investigative journalists who have looked into who is being killed. They uncovered the stories of 19 of the dead.

JOSE LUIS PENARREDONDA, EDITOR, EL CLIP: Many of them are reporting shows, are somehow involved in drug trafficking business, in drug transportation business, in very low levels of the chain.

TAPPER (voice-over): Journalist Lorena Melendez told us one of the stories really stuck with her.

[17:35:02]

LORENA MELENDEZ, EDITOR, REBEL ALLIANCE INVESTIGATES: In the case of Juan Carlos, he was a bus driver. And he bought his bus damaged and he couldn't repair it. He said, I have to do bad things. So he traveled to Trinidad.

TAPPER (voice-over): Juan Carlos, his wife told the journalist at consortium El Clip, she did not want him to get on the boat, but he insisted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translator): I'm leaving. I can't take it anymore, what desperation. I'm leaving to live or die, but I'm leaving. That's how he told me.

TAPPER (voice-over): She also remembered the moment she knew he'd been killed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through text translator): But since I'm making empanadas here, the phone is ringing too much. When I see an international call, I say, no, something has happened. Something happened to Juan Carlos. The mistake was seeing the video they sent me where they were blowing up boats.

TAPPER (voice-over): Juan Carlos was believed to have been killed in the October 3rd strike. He leaves behind three children and a grandchild, according to El Clip. Does that sound to you like a narco- terrorist? Another victim was a fixture of his community. Here's investigative journalist Jose Luis Penarredonda.

PENARREDONDA: I think about a Venezuelan guy called, I mean, his name was Pichirilo, managed to speak to people who knew him very well. One of them told me, just tell everyone he was a super nice guy.

TAPPER (voice-over): Eduardo Jaime, or Pichirilo, was a beloved local athlete. A family member tells El Clip he was also on the boat that was blown up on October 14th. None of these individuals seem to have even been mid-level drug traffickers. At worst, they seem like couriers.

Remember when the U.S. struck what Trump called a drug submarine? There were two survivors. The U.S. military held them, then released them to their home countries. Again, raising questions about whether the Trump administration knew who they were targeting.

Andres Tufino Chila was one of those two men. His sister told CNN he was not a criminal. Last month, "The Los Angeles Times" followed the stories of eight fishermen from Mexico who vanished after the February 16th U.S. strikes. "The men sometimes earned extra cash by transporting gasoline to the high seas, where they would refill speedboats ferrying cocaine from South America." They were all killed.

A mass was held for the men at sea a few days later. This video provided by the "L.A. Times" shows mourners drinking beer and singing songs. There are many more of these stories from Mexico, Venezuela, Ecuador, Colombia and Trinidad and Tobago. Maybe couriers caught in the crosshairs of the Trump administration's so far fruitless quest to end drug trafficking, often going after the lowest on the chain. Men who felt they had no other choice and were executed by the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Executed without trial, we should note. As Monday night became Tuesday this week, Southern Command announced the joint task force Southern Spear was ending and it would be replaced by joint task force Western Hemisphere.

We asked the Pentagon if they knew who they were targeting during Southern Spear. They maintain, "Targeting decisions are deliberate based on comprehensive assessments and reviewed through established processes. Every narco-terrorist killed in the Department of War Operations was an affiliated member of a designated terrorist organization actively transporting illicit material." Again, we asked for evidence and they provided none.

Joining us now, Virginia Democratic Senator Tim Kaine, who's on the Senate Armed Services Committee and has been digging into all the classified material on the boat strikes that he can get his hands on. Senator, first, any word from the White House since you sent that letter we refer to at the top of the piece?

KAINE: Jake, good to be with you. The White House made a public statement that they're only striking designated narco-terrorists and they're lying. I have been looking at the every bit of this from the original presidential directive in July to the legal opinion issued by the Department of Justice authorizing military operations in September to the Department of Defense targeting criteria in October.

All of this is classified, so I cannot really go into the contents, but I've reviewed all of it and I've reviewed the strike files themselves. And when this administration says they are only striking designated narco-terrorists, I can tell you from a review of the record they're lying. And the one thing I can tell you about the targeting criteria is what's not in the targeting criteria.

And this stunned me when I finally was able to get it and review it. The Department of Defense does not require any evidence that the boats they are striking contain any narcotics. They could have had that as one of the targeting criteria. I can't tell you what the criteria are, but I feel able to tell you what they're not. They could have included a criteria that we will only strike craft that are carrying narcotics. They chose not to do that.

[17:40:04]

And so they are striking boats and killing people far beyond what the President's directive was and far beyond what the White House and Pentagon spokespeople are saying were they were doing.

TAPPER: I mean, they're obviously killing low level drug dealers. You're not on a speedboat in the Caribbean delivering drugs if you're high up in a cartel. What are you hearing about this new mission as Southern Spear comes to a close and this Western Hemisphere Joint Task Force starts? I guess it has 18 member nations.

KAINE: Jake, but first, I want to say, yes, some of these killed might have been low level, but I believe that many of them killed were not even that.

TAPPER: Oh, absolutely.

KAINE: "The Guardian" has had some really good reporting about the bombing of fishing craft in Ecuadorian waters. And so we're not even talking about low level drug folks here. So here's what we know.

TAPPER: Well, and let me just add to that, if I can. Fishermen who delivered gasoline to boats should have delivered gasoline to boats, I mean, they're delivering -- the worst thing they're accused of doing is delivering gasoline to drug boats of low level people. And they were killed, killed --

KAINE: For delivering gasoline.

TAPPER: Yes.

KAINE: So here's what we know. And there's much we don't know. I met with the head of Southern Command in June and was aware since then the last strike taken under Southern Spear was taken on June 21. And so there's been a pause for six weeks with no strikes taken under Southern Spear. Earlier this week, the Pentagon announced the ending of Southern Spear. It's over. Thank God. I think it never should have been done. It's over.

But what we now have is an 18-nation counter narcotics collaboration. We want to go against narcotics and we want to be collaborating with other nations. What I don't yet hear, if any, that they'll use. But I have a hard time believing we'll sign on to an indiscriminate rogue killing campaign. And so I'm going to get to the bottom of what the new rules are.

But the fact that other nations are participating and you'll recall Senator Rubio announced a -- Secretary Rubio announced a multi-nation effort to combat narco-trafficking a couple of months ago. That that is a good idea. So long as we're not forcing our troops to engage in killing folks with no due process, far beyond what the legal rationale and justification suggests they can do.

TAPPER: Well, there's been no due process here. And it also seems as a strategy to like be like trying to end the drug trafficking in Baltimore by killing 14-year-old kids with dime bags on street corners. I mean, that's it might be easier to do it, but it's not going to end anything.

KAINE: Well, and I think, Jake, you're reporting a point like me saying it's not been effective. The Trump administration's own data --

TAPPER: Right.

KAINE: -- the drug enforcement administration is saying that this has not affected the quantity of cocaine coming into the United States. And it's also they look at prices. If we were really reducing the quantity, you would see street level prices going up. That's not happened.

So you pointed out correctly, this isn't really about fentanyl because fentanyl comes from Mexico, not Venezuela and Ecuador. This is an effort to go after cocaine trafficking. And if that was the goal, it has not been successful.

TAPPER: Not to mention the ingredients for fentanyl are coming from China, but much easier to kill some poor Ecuadorians in the Caribbean than actually take on China. Democratic Senator Tim Kaine, thanks for joining us. Really appreciate it.

KAINE: Absolutely, Jake.

[17:43:54]

TAPPER: Next, what President Trump said moments ago about reports that he wants to see more support for Vice President J.D. Vance is the possible Republican nominee for president in 2028.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In the Politics Lead, with the Senate staring down their August recess, Vice President J.D. Vance stopped by today's Republican Senate lunch to have a discussion about key legislative priorities before they leave town, naming funding the government and you guessed it, President Trump's desire to pass his controversial SAVE America Voting Security Bill.

My panel is here. Let's start with J.D. Vance, because "The Washington Post" has an interesting story about 2028. President Trump privately telling donors to get behind J.D. Vance, "At the end of the day, we need to elect J.D., Trump said during an Oval Office meeting with roughly with donors roughly two weeks ago, according to two people with knowledge of the comments. The piece noted that this doesn't constitute a public endorsement. President Trump himself clarified that this afternoon. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a report that you told donors that they need to get J.D. Vance elected in 2028. Is that your official endorsement?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, it's I heard about it a little while ago. I think he's great, but we're way too early to even be thinking about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And yet he's telling people to get behind him. What do you think?

JESSE ARM, VICE PRESIDENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS, MANHATTAN INSTITUTE: Well, who's telling "The Washington Post" that right? A source familiar with the conversation. I think the real piece of --

TAPPER: Do you think donors don't talk. Donors got some big, yes.

ARM: A lot of people talk. I think a lot of people who like Marco Rubio talk. I think a lot of people who like J.D. Vance --

TAPPER: OK. Fair enough.

ARM: -- everybody is trying to place stories and drive news cycles. And the latest thing we're seeing more and more of, you told me not to bring up Michigan. I know we're talking about --

[17:50:07]

TAPPER: We're going to talk about Michigan and next hour.

ARM: But people are now even placing polls to shape stories. So there is a trend now that is very much like people know how to shape the news cycles. And really, this is a story, I think, mostly about who's talking to the press that it is about who Donald Trump is thinking for 2028.

TAPPER: What do you think?

MO ELLEITHEE, EXECUTIVE DIR., GEORGETOWN INSTITUTE OF POLITICS & PUBLIC SERVICE: I can think of one group that would have an interest in this story being out there and that is pro J.D. Vance owners, right?

TAPPER: Right.

ELLEITHEE: I mean over the past couple months we have seen all the early polling which no one should pay any real attention to know what they are, right, showing Rubio ascendant Vance on the decline, right? All the momentum within the Republican Party right now is actually with Rubio still super early. But some maintenance work that needs to be done by the Vance team.

TAPPER: So just let me ask you because the Senate would use today, but they've installed over so many issues. Do you think J.D. Vance coming in and pressuring them and pass the SAVE Act et cetera, et cetera, going to move it along?

ARM: I don't know. I don't think it would happen to be perfectly honest, I don't think it necessarily moves the needle, no. The Vice President is out there pushing to SAVE America Act. I think he's doing what he can to grease the wheels here, but the challenge is Democrats who are not going to vote for it and that presents a major issue. I don't know maybe they can pass a clean save act just voter I.D. something of that nature. President hasn't expressed a huge appetite for that. And just to tie a bow on that last component we were talking about it should be said that J.D. is of course the prohibitive front runner right '28.

TAPPER: Right.

ARM: He is literally the RNC finance chair that is unheard of he has access to all of these donors. So look J.D. Vance has a lot of balls in the air right now. Moving the SAVE Act is a difficult one to advance, but I don't know maybe.

ELLEITHEE: It's not just that they weren't on board yet.

TAPPER: Murkowski.

ELLEITHEE: Right.

TAPPER: Susan Collins.

ELLEITHEE: Person to me is some of the reporting I've seen coming out of this meeting was that he went in to talk about SAVE Act and he got peppered mainly about with questions about the Iran war.

TAPPER: Right.

ELLEITHEE: That's the story of this moment we're in. This is the President's priority. He's sending the Vice President in to talk about this when people out there, including senators who many of whom are up for reelection this year care about the Iran war and affordability.

TAPPER: So let's talk about the Senate Republican launch because it was hosted coincidentally by Ohio Senator Bernie Moreno after the lunch which was attended by Ohio's former senator now Vice President J.D. Vance, the other Ohio Republican Senator Jon Husted called on Moreno's former son-in-law Congressman Max Miller also of Ohio to resign and drop out of his race for reelection in Ohio amid all these allegations for Moreno's daughter and Miller of course denies all of that another.

Republican senator, Tim Sheehy from Montana also called on Miller to drop his bid after the lunch, he wrote "What kind of person would treat their daughter this way. This guy is clearly a degenerate sociopath. Max should step aside and seek help. Staying in this race makes it far more likely we lose the seat in hand Democrats, a majority to impeach President Trump." This was about the Blue Bunny story that's what Tim Sheehy was responding to. I don't know in the weeds you are but this is whole thing about Congressman Miller not giving his daughter's Blue Bunny to his daughter. And this is something the senator Moreno was talking about is an ugly, ugly story. But what do you what do you make -- I mean now you have senators who aren't even part of the Ohio story. Republicans, I mean the degenerate sociopaths.

ARM: Yes. Look, Senator Sheehy, Senator Britt, these are the rising stars of the Senate GOP caucus. So if this is out there out there saying I think probably the right course of action. I can opine on Blue Bunny or the family dynamics because the truth is what the President said is accurate. It's an extremely sad, sorrowful answer all parties involved these things are incredibly ugly. And I hope that all the parties who need help seek help whether it's Max Miller or his young daughter who's caught in the crosshairs of all this.

TAPPER: Mo, what do you think of all this? I mean I know there is the sadness of the story. It is also tragically because these are the he's a politician Max Miller a political story because this is a Republican safe seat, but maybe not if he's the nominee that's the concern anyway from people in the White House.

ELLEITHEE: Yes. And it's so interesting to see and I'm happy to see the senators the Republican senators who have spoken up speak up. You know when that long ago that my side of the aisle was dealing with something ugly.

TAPPER: Swalwell.

ELLEITHEE: Swalwell, I was thinking Platner.

TAPPER: Oh, Platner, yes.

ELLEITHEE: Who are very similarly, you know the story about sexual assault came out just days before the deadline.

TAPPER: Yes.

ELLEITHEE: And you saw a lot of people in my party then, right, I think they came to it late, but they -- it broke then and they came out and they call on to resign or to step down. You're not seeing the level. You're seeing some but you're not seeing the same level and I think that's good that could be a real political issue for them.

[17:55:16]

TAPPER: It is. But they're -- Erik Erikson the conservative commentator he's making the argument that Miller's not just about his race. He's a drag on the ticket because Trump won't be on the top of the ticket, which hurts Republicans in Ohio. And instead you have these very competitive Senate and gubernatorial races and then Max Miller could depress turnout in his district and that could mean anyway, I'm told I'm have to wrap. So just that you're spared. But we're coming back to you in the next hour.

Privately, President Trump has complained that reports on depleted missile stock makes the United States look weak. And moments ago, he was just asked about the reported shortage his reply and what we know about his frustration buying closed doors. That's ahead.

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[18:00:02]

TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, President Trump is reportedly fuming after details about the U.S. military's dwindling --