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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Soon, Trump Campaigns In South Carolina; Spirit Airlines' Date To Train A.I. Models; Drama In Tupac Shakur Murder Trial; Gov. Newsom: "I'm Enthusiastic" About Trump Accounts; Source: Meghan Markle In Talks To Join U.K. TV Show. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired August 21, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper.
This hour, President Trump just landed in South Carolina, and soon he'll take the stage for a rally aimed at ginning up support for Senator Darline Graham after she made a series of blunders. With just a few days until this runoff election, will the power of the Trump endorsement carry her across the finish line?
Plus, the first week of testimony wraps up in just a few minutes in the Tupac Shakur murder trial, and there was drama in the court today as the defendant, Duane Davis, spoke for the first time in his trial, accusing prosecutors of endangering his family.
Also, it's the latest installment of our series AI: Friend or Foe? If you ever flew with Spirit Airlines, worked there, emailed someone who worked there, then your personal information will soon be used to train A.I. models. We'll explain what kind of data is included and how exactly it will be used.
And new details tonight on what Prince Harry and Meghan Markle plan to do when they return to the United Kingdom in the coming weeks, including a potential return to acting for the Duchess of Sussex. That's ahead.
The Lead tonight starts in the beautiful state of South Carolina. President Trump is set to take the stage in the next hour to rally for late Senator Lindsey Graham's sister, Darline Graham. It is a critical moment for both Trump and Graham, as some of Trump's steadfast supporters openly reject his pick for the U.S. Senate, a race that's going to a Republican runoff on Tuesday.
Now, one state representative says the world is, quote, laughing at Darline Graham, particularly after her debate performance earlier this week, where Graham admitted that she, quote, wasn't that informed about national security, and said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DARLINE GRAHAM (R-SC): There's 50 million people in South Carolina. Half of them live paycheck to paycheck. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: The population is closer to 5 million.
Trump was asked about her debate flub just about an hour ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: All she was is being honest. She's very smart.
She's surrounded by very good people, and she said that she's totally for the military. I mean, she's going to do what the military wants, and really what the president wants. She understands that national security is my thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: So, here's the latest. Earlier today, former South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford threw his support behind Graham's opponent, Congressman Ralph Norman, while former Governor Henry McMaster just endorsed Senator Darline Graham.
We start things off with CNN's Betsy Klein in Myrtle Beach, traveling with the president. Betsy, it's always good to see you on the campaign trail. Is this as close? Is this as much of a jump ball as it seems right now?
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. The both sides I've been talking to here are extremely clear-eyed. This race is going to be very, very tight. And Tuesday's Senate runoff election between Darline Graham, who's, of course, the sister of the late Senator Lindsey Graham, a very close friend of President Trump, is really setting up a key test of how powerful and potent his endorsement really is.
It comes on the heels of several high-profile losses for candidates that he has endorsed in their primary races. So, president now all-in on Darline Graham, you saw him double down on his support when he was asked about that debate night gaffe. He brushed it off, said she was being honest. But there is widespread acknowledgement within her team that that was a bad moment, that she fumbled the ball.
They feel at this point like she has recovered with a focus, with a message on affordability. However, they really feel good about their support among women as well as suburban voters, and the selection of Myrtle Beach for this rally is very notable. This is one of the fastest-growing metros in the country. It is historically very supportive of President Trump.
And they are really trying to capitalize on that with both this event and their message. We saw a series of signs heading into this arena for Darline Graham. It said, quote, endorsed by Trump, trusted by Trump. So, in an election where it's really going to come down to a matter of turnout, that they believe matters. Phil? MATTINGLY: You know, Betsy, we've been split-screening you with the senior senator from the states of South Carolina, Tim Scott. It's a pretty red state. Taking the time to campaign there, I assume, means that this is a very personal race to Trump at this point.
KLEIN: Yes, it's certainly personal. He described Lindsey Graham as his best friend. So, certainly, he feels a personal tie here and a stake to visit. But, of course, South Carolina is not a battleground state, and a lot of people are questioning whether this is the best use of his time two weeks out, or, excuse me, two months out from a midterm election.
Of course, you and I both know very well, Phil, that a president's most valuable commodity is their time. Presidents have very finite amounts of that. The fact that he is coming here to South Carolina again, I think, really underscores how meaningful his relationship with Lindsey Graham was.
MATTINGLY: The unflappable Betsy Klein, a savvy veteran dealing with the arena noise, Tim Scott.
[18:05:00]
Betsy Klein in South Carolina, thanks so much. We'll be talking to you throughout the course of the rally.
Our panel is joining me now. And, Ashley, first off, I want people to understand the contrast of Tim Scott on the trail versus Tim Scott like in the hallways of the Capitol is very jarring. Like he's very good on the trail. I've covered him in 2016 when he was going around with Rubio. Like he actually can electrify a crowd, doesn't really talk to reporters in the Capitol. I just want to note. Feel free to change that.
Kind of the last point that Betsy was making, like the commodity that is time for a president. Red state, there are midterm elections, he's got a huge war chest that he hasn't opened the spigot on yet. There's a lot of frontline guys looking around saying like, hey, any time, man. The importance of this to Trump, does it match up with the importance of it politically?
ASHLEY DAVIS, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL, GEORGE W. BUSH ADMINISTRATION: Well, number one, I think it's important that, to him because he asked her to run. I mean, he's the one that asked her to run for the full-time Senate, so I think it's very important. Listen, I did my own little very sophisticated focus group of my dad and his friends who live in Myrtle Beach area. And they were like, What's Trump doing? I mean, that's their response. If they like -- if he likes Darline Graham, that's who we're voting for. There was absolutely no concern that she didn't know the answer on Taiwan.
And I also think it's mid-August. The election and then now the runoff has been so close that people are going to go to the polls and she's probably going to win. It's probably going to be closer. But Norman's been around for a long time, and at the end of the day, I think she'll pull it out. CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Let me add one more thing to the Norman thing. And people forget, because we talk about Lindsey Graham and his tragic passing but Lindsey Graham only got 60 percent of the primary vote just a couple months ago. Because it's not a good thing, no matter if you're a Democrat or Republican right now, to be an incumbent. They're the most unpopular people in American politics, because folks are sick and tired of all politicians.
And I think she's getting a little bit of that, and you know this, Phil, in a runoff it's just a super small electorate where Donald Trump could have more of an impact, but also Norman's been around a long time, and he'd been waiting a long time for this seat. And there's a lot of folks who thinks they he had done his time. So, watch the turnout, because the turnout will matter here, because it's only going to be a small little group of Republican voters.
MATTINGLY: You know, to that point, now that I know that you have a focus group on hand, I mean --
A. DAVIS: It's very sophisticated.
MATTINGLY: -- I will approach this with the humility of having assumed from the jump like, oh, Trump's behind her, wanted her to run, this is a done deal, everybody's going to get out. Nobody got out. Credit to Darline Graham for being the top vote getter in a packed primary of people with a lot of resume behind them. Do you think the flubs matter? Like the debate commentary, the I don't really know that much about national security, not really knowing how many people are in South Carolina, like that's a good cable hit. Does it matter to the electorate?
A. DAVIS: That comment matters more, I think, than the national security aspect, because what she did say of what she cares about and what she's worked her whole life on is making sure that people have a good life. I mean, she's obviously been very focused on the cost of living and making sure that people that don't have enough money have services, and so that's her focus. Her brother's focus was national security.
And, listen, at the end of the day, we all know if she has good national security staff around her she is going to support the troops and it's not going to matter at the end of the day. I hope -- listen, she's been through hell and back and she's even going through it more now because of what she's just been thrust into, which is big time. And I hope she pulls it out. Listen, I think that she'll be a good, thoughtful senator.
ROCHA: I think the comments matter more because this is probably such a minuscule electorate that is more tuned in than any one. Folks that are on Twitter, folks that are reading, not the infrequent voter that Donald Trump actually got to show up in a general election. It's just the opposite of that. And for Democrats, there are over 50 marginal Congressional seats in America where the House will be flipped, and not a one of them are in South Carolina, to your point earlier.
There's lots of places. This week, the Cook Political Report moved Texas and Iowa one notch more Democrat, where he could be there rallying his troops for Ken Paxton, but he's in South Carolina.
A. DAVIS: And he will be. But, listen, at the end of the day, he asked her to run, and he's going to Myrtle Beach. I mean, so he's -- I mean, this is like --
ROCHA: I can smell the pork rinds and the baby oil from here.
A. DAVIS: Can we talk about Chuck's beard?
ROCHA: No, we don't talk about my beard. I've been gone for two weeks.
MATTINGLY: I want to talk about his tan. Like how does somebody go to Alaska and come back with this kind of tan?
No, okay, I want to keep us on track because, actually, one of the things that I've been thinking about a lot is, and Trump brings this on himself because he cares so deeply about his endorsement record. People are just -- like Democrats are frothing at the idea that he could lose another race where he endorsed. I don't really care like if he wins or like his record of endorsements doesn't matter to me in terms of how I cover things. But I do wonder, from a political perspective, if you see kind of an indicator of maybe he is losing some influence. Maybe if he does hit the road later, it's not going to matter as much as it would have two years ago.
A. DAVIS: So, I looked at how many people he's endorsed this cycle, which is over 335, I think was the number.
MATTINGLY: But like city council members are my --
A. DAVIS: And he's lost 12.
MATTINGLY: Yes.
A. DAVIS: So, like when everyone's saying he's lost so many, he's won 96 percent.
[18:10:01]
So, I think places like South Carolina, it does really matter. But I think there's a lot of people hoping that she loses just because of his endorsement, which is not fair to her. And if you look at someone that would be a good senator in regards to my politics of moderate Republican politics, she would be much better for me than Norman, who's been very like much of a destructionist and not wanting to pass any bills.
MATTINGLY: Freedom Caucus guy, yes.
A. DAVIS: Yes. So, I think that he -- she is much more in line personally with what I hope that South Carolina would bring to the table.
MATTINGLY: Do you read anything into endorsements, wins, losses, anything like that in terms of the president's record going into the midterms? ROCHA: I watch the lame duck, and you cover the Hill much more than I do, and I think you know that I know that people will get more of a spine if he's defanged some moving into a midterm. If the Republicans lose Congress in November, and they've got so much legislation that they need to move through the system in November and December, and he's lost a few of these races, he won't be president again, I think it's a whole new look in Congress when it comes to voting, because they won't be scared no more.
MATTINGLY: Trying to bait me into an appropriations discussion. I will not have it. We got a lot more to get to. You guys are sticking around. We got much more to discuss this hour.
Coming up, North Korea is sending a drone squad to Russia to help them target Ukraine as President Trump seems to be courting Kim Jong-un for another meeting. We'll talk to a lawmaker about the lofty implications with the nuclear nation. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:15:00]
MATTINGLY: This just in to our Politics Lead, the Pentagon has forced out several top staffers at Stars and Stripes, an official U.S. military publication that has historically operated with editorial independence from the military.
Publisher Max Lederer, Editor-in-Chief Eric Slavin, and a reporter were given separation notices. You're looking at the Stars and Stripes' own reporting on this. Lederer had already told staff he would retire next month, saying his philosophy differs from the Defense Department's direction of leadership. And Slavin told The Washington Post he was dismissed for insubordination related to an interview he gave to CBS for a piece on Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's efforts to exert control over Stars and Stripes.
And to our World Lead, you're looking at the aftermath of a deadly double tap Russian strike on a Ukrainian shopping center today in Central Ukraine. Ukrainian officials say at least 15 people are dead and more than 100 wounded after Russian attack drones hit the same location about a half an hour apart. And now CNN is learning Russia is calling in reinforcements for its drone program, including a North Korean drone unit that could attack targets in Ukraine.
Joining us now, Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, a Democrat from Illinois on the Oversight and Intelligence Committees. Congressman, I really appreciate your time.
Obviously, North Korea and Russia have been getting closer since they signed a NATO-style mutual defense pact two years ago. How serious of a threat is the North Korea-Russia partnership to NATO and to the U.S. at this point?
REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): It's very serious. They've provided ballistic missiles to the Russians. They've provided close to 25,000 troops on rotation through Ukraine, and now they're providing something like 400 drone operators to the Russians to now participate in kind of drone warfare.
And so this is a problem for various reasons, but one of which is they're obviously adding to the fight that the Ukrainians have to deal with and munitions that the Russians did not have previously that they now have at their disposal.
MATTINGLY: The latest reporting from CNN on the drone units that are going over comes just a few days after President Trump announced that U.S. military drills with South Korea would be scaled down, as he put it, quote, based on my very good relationship with Kim Jong-un. Trump clearly wants another meeting with the North Korean leader.
Denuclearization hasn't gone that great with Iran up to this point. Do you have any hope that Trump's posture, the way he operates with Kim Jong-un, could have -- lead to an outcome of some sort?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: No. We've seen this movie before. It didn't turn out well the first time in Trump's first term.
Look, when you push your friends, partners, and allies away, like the South Koreans, it just shows weakness on our part, and that invites further aggression, and that's what's going to happen with regard to the North Koreans. Not only that, but the South Koreans are now hedging as well. There's open talk in the South Korean political system about developing their own nuclear weapons, and that is the opposite of what we want to see on the Korean Peninsula.
We've pursued a denuclearization strategy, and now we're going in the opposite direction, and it could really create a very dangerous situation in an already dangerous part of the world.
MATTINGLY: Your Judiciary Committee colleagues today released a new report called Pardons Inc: How Trump and His Clemency-for-Cash Racket Let White Collar Criminals and International Drug Dealers Walk Free and Dodge Billions in Restitution Owed to Their Victims. President Biden pardoned members of his family as he left office. Why is this a different situation?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, this is a different scale we're talking about right now. Look, we're seeing kind of a two-tiered justice system where if you're a friend of the president and you give campaign contributions especially, you're likely going to get clemency, even in some very, very heinous crimes. Not only that, but as this report details, the people that get clemency are now not paying restitution that would otherwise go to the victims of their crimes.
And so it's a double-whammy. On the one hand, these people are getting a, a get out of jail free card for being a friend of the president, and then the victims are suffering the consequences and not getting the restitution that they are owed. And so it's just corroding our justice system every day that this continues.
MATTINGLY: That report out today, I think probably a preview of one of many things you will see Democrats pursue if they're in the majority in the next Congress.
[18:20:05]
Congressman, I really appreciate your time, as always, sir. Thanks so much.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you so much.
MATTINGLY: Well, as part of its bankruptcy proceedings, Spirit Airlines sold personal passenger information that's going to be used to train A.I. We'll explain what kind of data and how it'll be used. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MATTINGLY: A live look at Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, where you see right there Republican Senate candidate, Republican Senator Darline Graham is speaking at a rally. President Donald Trump will be at that rally and speaking shortly. We'll keep an eye on that.
Well, in the meantime, it's time for our series, A.I.: Friend or Foe?
So, have you ever flown Spirit, worked for the airline, even corresponded with someone at the company? Well, some of that data is now headed to Google to help power it's A.I., Google paying $10 million for Spirit's data.
[18:25:03]
The deal comes after the airline halted its operations in May.
And joining me now is Sara Nelson, the president of the Association of Flight Attendants.
And, Sara, we were just talking about it. I saw the headline, I was like, ah, I don't know that I love that, when you see the headline. Explain to people what this is and how it's been communicated to former employees, many of whom are still looking for work or in the process of training for work, what they -- if they have to worry about something here.
SARA NELSON, PRESIDENT, ASSOCIATION OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS: Well, first of all, this wasn't really communicated at all. It was just in a bankruptcy filing, hidden in the middle of a bankruptcy filing Friday night. And we had to make sense of it and put our objection forward, and we were actually successful in getting this pushed back. So the sale is not approved yet. The next bankruptcy court date is September 9th. It was going to go through on August 19th.
But we've pushed it back because what this says is that even though they say it's going to de-identify the names involved, and there's confidentiality for customers, for employees, all of their data is available, their employee emails, their tax records, their payroll records, their time sheets all of this confidential information, frankly, and their disciplinary files, as they're out trying to search for other jobs.
These are people who lost everything overnight. Their airline shut down with no notice at all. They had no health insurance, no paychecks. They -- we had to work on getting them their last paycheck. They are still waiting on their vacation and earned sick time and other benefits that they are due, and we're fighting for that in the bankruptcy court. There's nothing left to give out.
But this is insult to injury in a time when these workers are really trying to just look for work and then thinking, what, this is my data. How can you sell this to someone else when I no longer have a relationship with Spirit? Spirit did not make good on its commitment to me, and now you're saying that you're going to take my data and my personal information too when I'm trying to get a job somewhere else?
MATTINGLY: How much of -- when your members are -- there are a litany of things your members, as you are relaying, are concerned about here. The idea that it's being used to train an A.I. system or an LLM, how much are you hearing about that aspect of it given no one really knows exactly what that means at this point?
NELSON: Well, look, I mean, the very first thing that people are concerned about that that we're talking to is their personal data.
MATTINGLY: Right.
NELSON: Very, very concerned about that. But also then they're immediately asking the other questions. What does this mean for our future? Is everything just for sale? Are we going to be completely controlled? Are people going to know everything about us, and that's just for sale, all of our personal data, anywhere, anytime? There's a lot of concerns about A.I. and how this is going to be used and why Google would want this.
And I think that, you know, the one thing that's sort of interesting is I think about all of those disciplinary files that were handled by H.R. people, and what Google's really doing is taking this to try to train A.I. to replace those jobs. So, how ironic. But it's very, very concerning across the board.
And I think this is something Americans have to be concerned about. It's very good, actually, that our union is there because there would be no one to object otherwise. There could be employees that would go through this kind of process, and without a union, they'd have no one to stand up for them.
MATTINGLY: Yes. I mean, you were just saying you found out about it in a court filing, not that the company or former company or any officials were actually reaching out to you. Do people who say, like, look, these companies have everything on us at this point anyway, consumer data?
NELSON: Yes.
MATTINGLY: And I think this gets to the specific issues of your members, which is personnel files, work related issues. What's your base concern and what do you think your next steps are as you try and help out your members? NELSON: Yes. So, we're going to continue to fight in the bankruptcy court, and we are saying that the sale should not go through unless this can be made sure that it's completely confidential. We have to be able to ensure that we can track that. Right now, it's an unnamed third party that supposedly is going to de-identify this. There are no assurances whatsoever at all.
So, if we can get those assurances that this will be completely confidential, then we're not trying to hold up the sale. But we're going to be arguing that, and the next court date is September 9th. But beyond that, I think that we have to take this out, and we have to think about this in terms of policy, because this is a new terrain that all of us are facing with A.I. And we -- policymakers need to be thinking about this when we're thinking about the kind of guardrails that we need to put on this new industry.
And, you know, I work in a heavy regulated industry, and we remain safe because of that. There is an FAA. There should be an FAA agency for A.I. And this is one of the considerations that needs to be made.
MATTINGLY: Sarah Nelson, I really appreciate you coming in.
NELSON: Thank you.
MATTINGLY: Please keep us posted as we move further into this court case.
NELSON: Thanks.
MATTINGLY: Well, court is just about to wrap up in the Tupac Shakur murder trial. After one week of testimony, where are we in that case? Our team that has been inside the courtroom joins us next to bring you up to speed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
MATTINGLY: Breaking news in our Law and Justice Lead, week one of testimony in the Tupac Shakur murder trial just wrapped up moments ago. But for the first time in court today, we heard from the man accused of orchestrating the fatal 1996 shooting of Shakur.
CNN's Josh Campbell is following the case for us. Josh, tell us about that moment.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, it came out of nowhere. In fact, the court was still in session, and we haven't heard the defendant in here, Duane Davis, who, of course, has pleaded not guilty to charges in Tupac's murder. He raised his finger and wanted to get the judge's attention and it's unclear exactly what he was referring to, but he appeared to take exception to what he said was his address being disclosed publicly. Hear -- watch that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUANE DAVIS, DEFENDANT: They keep giving out my address. They broke in my house, vandalized my house.
This stuff is wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've heard it's going on both ways.
D. DAVIS: They're invading people's rights.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That there's concerns both --
D. DAVIS: They're wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMPBELL: Now again, it was not clear what he was referring to, but the judge did admonish both sides that both the lawyers as well as the witnesses to not release any information that shouldn't be public. In fact, at one point, he got a little snippy because a prosecutor said, well, I think he's upset because we're prosecuting him for murder, in which -- to which Duane Davis then responded and said, no, I'm upset because I think you're endangering my family.
[18:35:10]
So, again, something we did not expect today.
MATTINGLY: Yes, no question about that. On the actual substance, you've been covering everyminute of this, despite claiming he made up the past stories of his involvement with Tupac's murder, the jury continuing to listen to recordings of Davis speaking about his role in that night. What do we know?
CAMPBELL: Well, he was indeed the star witness during this first week, his own words. He spoke to police officers long ago. That was recorded. He also gave a series of media interviews in which he talked about his role that night. Now, he says he didn't actually pull the trigger, but it was his nephew, and they allegedly opened fire on Tupac as well as rap producer Suge Knight out of retribution because Duane Davis' nephew was allegedly beaten up earlier in the night by Shakur's entourage.
Now, one video that was played for the court included a documentary, Death Row Chronicles. We hear him describing that night. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. DAVIS: When we pulled up, I was in the front seat. I happened to see my friend, Suge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said the shots came from the back. Big Dre, Orlando, who shot Tupac?
D. DAVIS: I'm going to keep it for the code of the streets. It just came from the backseat, bro.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CAMPBELL: Said he was going to keep it for the code on the streets, and that's something that law enforcement has grappled with in this case, that you have these competing gang factions that didn't want to initially explain exactly what happened.
It's worth pointing out that documentary also included a dramatized recreation of what exactly occurred. But you're seeing there on your screen images that were introduced in court, actual images of the BMW that Tupac Shakur was in when he was shot and killed.
Of course, finally, Phil, the big question in all of this, we have two competing versions that Davis has told. There's the past versions where he said, yes, I was there, I was involved. He's now saying, I made it up in order to make money. The big question, how will this land with the jury? Which side will -- which side of the story will they actually believe. Phil?
MATTINGLY: Yes, hanging over everything, wrapping up the first week. Josh Campbell, I appreciate you, my friend. Thank you.
CAMPBELL: Of course.
MATTINGLY: Well, he's positioned himself as one of President Trump's fiercest critics, but today, California Governor Gavin Newsom praised one of the president's actions, calling it, quote, one of the best things he's done. So, what is it? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:40:00]
MATTINGLY: Looking at a split screen of rallies. South Carolina, it is where it's all happening in politics right now, the runoff election coming up. President Trump will be on stage in Myrtle Beach shortly. He's expected to speak there soon. On your right, Darline Graham's opponent in the runoff, Congressman Ralph Norman, about to start a town hall in Anderson, South Carolina. We're going to be keeping an eye on that.
But also today, Vice President J.D. Vance rallying with Republican candidates and promoting the administration's economic policies at a steel plant where his grandfather once worked in Middletown, Ohio.
I want to jump right in with the panel that's back with me right now. Chuck, the vice president talked about his grandfather, James Vance, working at the same steel mill, different name, pretty sure different ownership at this point. Here's what he said about his grandfather's politics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Back then, he said that Democrats were the party of union men, so he usually voted Democrat, but he thought way too many politicians were just plain old corrupt, and he was right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: One, I think a lot of people think like that. I don't think that's specific to J.D. Vance's grandfather. I'm more interested in who wins the battle of who do you trust more, or, frankly, who's less corrupt when you talk to folks on the campaign trail?
ROCHA: There's a lot of anxiety out there with working people, and I've been to that steel mill, and you know this, Phil. I went to work in a factory when I was 19. I'd never been to college. I was a teenage father, and I'm that worker he was talking about. I followed my father into that rubber plant. And those guys had been looking for an outlet because we were taught if you work hard, you play by the rules, you work a little overtime, you could get ahead. Maybe you could send your kids to school. Well, that has been shrinking, even under Democrats and under Republicans.
And the reason they can't get away with this is because they're in charge right now. They weren't in charge when Donald Trump got elected, and Donald Trump got a lot of those voters. As a Democrat, I give him credit because he was saying, I'm something different. I'm not one of those politicians. But they bought that, but now they're not buying it anymore because they're in charge and things continue to go up, and I think that'll be the Achilles' heel as we head into the midterms.
MATTINGLY: Ashley, I think that's such an essential point because this gets at my next question, which was what Vance said today about affordability. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VANCE: On the affordability question, we know that under Joe Biden, the cost of a median price home nearly doubled. Now, for the first time in over five years, rents are falling for the first time. We got a lot of work to do, but we're finally seeing that American dream of home ownership become accessible again to our young people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: First off, that last part is just flat out not accurate right now when you talk to young people. But putting that aside, it's more like the echoes of when I was covering the Biden White House, listening to them over and over again be like, we're making progress, we're working on it, and being like, well, people aren't feeling it right now, and that didn't work out great for them.
A. DAVIS: No, and I think that's our same problem right now. And also you have the stock market and other things that are doing really well, but are the general people -- but also those voters you were talking about, like yourself, they also don't like the everything's free for everybody either from the socialist message. I mean, I think that there is like a big chunk of people that like hardworking people and just expect the government to help them out as well, but just not for free, as you're giving me an evil eye.
But I also have to say, one thing that came out today that's good, we're finally talking about and we're going, you know, we're going into this last stretch after Labor Day. They're opening up endpoints for -- imports for beef prices which was a major policy decision today that was announced, which will help bring beef prices down, which I think is huge, because that was a major issue under Biden and hasn't gotten better under Trump.
And then also, if you look at the numbers this week, the job numbers, 15 percent, the job numbers for manufacturing are at the highest they've been in 15 years.
[18:45:07]
But are people actually feeling it? So, we do have some momentum. We need to continue talking about it. But right now, we're losing the messaging battle in regards to everyday Americans.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: I think the irony of that is on a macro level, without any question at all, the resilience of the U.S. economy, the ability to make it through tariff shocks, oil supply shocks and really produce on a macro level has been, without question, great. It also did that a lot with the Biden team, too. And they always kind of ran into this problem, which is the difficulty of this moment.
You mentioned the, the beef deal that was announced today. We're still waiting for a lot of details. There is no question. If you want to know how the administration feels about affordability issues, that is a prime example, because their allies in Montana, their allies in Nebraska. If you are a rancher or cattlemen, you are not happy right now. But to your point, depending on how it's implemented, it will have an effect.
DAVIS: And that's why it hasn't come out for the last two years. I mean, and this is why it's coming out now.
ROCHA: And we're my firm is working on congressional races from coast to coast in marginal races. And in none of those races, Ashley, are we saying that things are free when we're running ads? We're not saying we're the party to give you things free. We're running ads saying things cost too much and that things haven't gotten any better under, and we're not in charge. They're in charge. So, it's cost and corruption, but it's also about the anxiety that I talk about, because I think this is the piece that we're missing.
I think Ashleys talked about it because it's that anxiety that's caused Trump to do what he's done with beef prices, because they're desperate. It's what he's done with our Iran because he wants gas prices down. I just, as we've talked about, came back from Alaska this morning and gas was $9.56 a gallon. I know it's Alaska, but things are really anxious out there for folks right now.
And I think that's why you're going to see the rubber hit the road as we get to Labor Day, because Trump is desperate to talk about the economy. Ashley, my friend, talks about how they should be talking about it every time they can, because the windows closing. And you said something earlier with your reporter from South Carolina.
Actually, she said it. There's one thing in politics you never get back. And that's another tick of that clock. You never get back that time. And folks are really wondering what's happening going into Labor Day.
MATTINGLY: By the way, citing Alaskan gas is like citing that one gas station near the Kennedy Center that's always like, oh my. It's fair. It's not a fair comparative.
DAVIS: It's like $20 a gallon.
MATTINGLY: Okay. I do want to ask about something because on the economy, you don't see a lot of Democrats saying nice things about the president and his team. California Governor Gavin Newsom did have one. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: I'm enthusiastic about encouraging people to get a Trump account. I think it's incredibly important. It's one of the best things he's done.
Take advantage of this to not fall prey to the politics or the cynicism, or maybe even the fear that if I download a Trump account, somehow that means something. It doesn't. It just means something for your kid. It's not Trump's money. It's your child's money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: I don't -- I don't care about the politics. It's good policy.
DAVIS: Totally.
MATTINGLY: Democrats who understand this stuff know it's good policy. Are you surprised that Newsom would come out and say it?
DAVIS: No, I actually think it's very smart because I was actually just saying this the other day. I think he's getting tired of just criticizing everything the president does. There are some good things, and this is one of them. And listen, I don't have a -- you have kids that you can take advantage of this because they're now eight.
MATTINGLY: Yeah.
DAVIS: But, you know, I don't at this time.
ROCHA: I got grandkids.
DAVIS: Yeah. But it's a big deal. And that's going to be something that is changing the future of some of these children.
ROCHA: I think as we move into 2028, we get past these midterms. I think you're going to see a contrast in 20 Democrats that are running for president on which one of them just do it with a hammer every single day. And folks that are looking for ways to find some commonality because folks are frustrated.
MATTINGLY: You have a different memory of the 2020 primary than I do about folks just trying to find just kept going further and further.
DAVIS: Which no, I agree --
ROCHA: I ran Bernie Sanders political campaign.
MATTINGLY: I know.
DAVIS: I know, but see, my biggest fear for 2020 -- for our 2028 is running against AOC because I think she brings out so many different people, and I think she has the excitement. You don't agree with me necessarily on this, but I think that it's really hard for her to, you know, not win a primary.
MATTINGLY: We will see. That's way, way far in the future.
ROCHA: There we go.
MATTINGLY: Ashley Davis, Chuck, I appreciate you guys. Thank you as always.
Well, when Prince Harry and ,Meghan Markle make their return to the United Kingdom, she could also make her return to acting. Those new details next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:53:27]
MATTINGLY: New details tonight on what Prince Harry and Meghan Markle plan to do when they return to the U.K.
Here's CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Phil.
So this is really big news. Meghan Markle could be making her big return to acting in a major way. A source familiar with ongoing discussions tells me that Meghan Markle is in talks to possibly join the third season of Guy Ritchie's Netflix series "The Gentlemen".
Now, a deal is not in place, and deadline, which was the first outlet to report that Meghan got an offer to join the gentlemen. They say that talks are hypothetical at this point, and that no role has been decided for Markle.
Now I have reached out to multiple representatives for Markle. None of them have gotten back to me. Netflix declined to comment, but here's why this would make sense. Of course, this all comes on the backdrop of Meghan and Prince Harry making their return to the U.K. with their two young children, but also remember they have a deal with Netflix. Of course, they did their major docu series on Netflix. And also, Meghan Markle has been doing her lifestyle show on the major streaming giant.
So, time will tell. But again, a source does indicate that these talks are ongoing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: Elizabeth Wagmeister, thank you.
Well, in our politics lead, Jake Tapper has got a look at a brand new book that imagines how a future civil war in the U.S. may play out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: Our politics lead now. Breaking up is hard to do.
[18:55:00]
America's differences right now feel increasingly extreme, and a new novel by Kurt Andersen called "The Breakup", imagines that roughly 20 years from now, the United States has endured a right wing domestic insurgency, fought a civil war, and essentially agreed to peacefully divide itself into two separate countries.
And underneath that is another breakup, the 23-year marriage of the protagonist. So, the novel asks a similar question about both relationships. At what point do differences become irreconcilable, and when is something broken still worth trying to repair and save?
And Kurt Andersen joins me now.
Kurt, thanks so much for joining us.
KURT ANDERSEN, AUTHOR, "THE BREAKUP": Thanks for having me.
TAPPER: Congrats on the book. So, you wrote a novel in which America actually breaks up into separate countries.
In a "New York Times" op-ed, you argue that America is already beginning essentially to live separately. Conscious uncoupling, as it were. Did you write this novel because you think America is -- a United States of America is likely to un-unite?
ANDERSEN: I don't know about likely. I feel like it's -- it seems likelier to me, less farfetched as a story that the kind of story that I tell in the breakup than it did when I began thinking about it and writing about three or four years ago.
So I would say -- I think it's much more plausible and than it was. And what I do think is that coming back together in the old way without some radical transformation of our governing apparatus is, is not in the cards is my sense.
MATTINGLY: I want to read an excerpt from the book, the wife in the in the book, Natalie says, quote, as the country started cracking up, I felt caught in a tragic love triangle. The two Americas hating each other, me still loving them both. And I wonder if you think that Americans are losing what Natalie has,
a love of both. Do you think that in blue enclaves, people just don't even see the good in red states and vice versa?
ANDERSEN: Yes and no. My experience traveling around the south, talking to my own friends, they're still like, oh gosh, I love this country, I am. But what they share is Natalie's sadness at what's going on and the seeming irreconcilability of these. You know, they're the enemy. This mutual contempt that goes nowhere but getting more intense.
MATTINGLY: Natalie also says, quote, and it's not going to happen, Ash. That's her husband, ex-husband, this Cracker Barrel versus Whole Foods civil war. The people I grew up with are not going to risk their speed boats and RVs and mortgages to start a war over drag queens and pronouns and unisex bathrooms, and too many black people on TV ads.
Natalies convinced regular Americans aren't going to leave their comfortable lives to fight a civil war over that. She turns out -- well, I don't want to ruin anything, but the war does happen.
ANDERSEN: You learn that in the first chapter.
TAPPER: How does a country enter a civil war when nobody wants to actually fight a civil war?
ANDERSEN: Well, that's what we discover. I mean, Natalie grew up in east Tennessee, by the way, working class. So, she has a whole different view of the red states than her husband, who grew up in L.A. has. So that's -- but that's why she was -- had her, as she says, disparagingly, lived experience that this just wasn't going to happen.
And what, among other things, we find out about the war that does happen, the uprising in a way more than a civil war, which she doesn't want to call it, is that, you know, they recruit thousands of people to kill and assassinate and kidnap and blow up things. But like, ultimately, because an administration that decides, no, this is a war and we have to crush it, it works as any such uprising in this country I believe would happen.
MATTINGLY: You describe -- I mean, obviously, the metaphor of the civil war for a breakup of a marriage and vice versa.
ANDERSEN: Yeah.
MATTINGLY: It's a love affair. It's a -- it's a love affair gone bad. Do you still believe in the love affair of America, of the -- of the United States?
ANDERSEN: I think we're farther gone than, say, Asher and Natalie are in the book. Asher and Natalie's -- their differences are not entirely political. They're over technology. They're over culture. They're over a lot of things.
But and -- they're not ex-spouses yet in this book. And so, they there's some hope for them, some a lot of hope. And there's hope at the end of the book about America.
I think that maybe splitting up, as with divorces, is better than the option of staying in a terrible marriage. So, I think that old civics history idea that we grew up with of, oh, no, this is great America, America, eclectic, everybody of all different kinds of points of view can have their opinion. I do think that's the love of that is gone. And that's what I don't see returning without some incident things, something that makes the fever break.
TAPPER: All right. The book is "The Breakup", a great novel. Check it out. It's out now. Kurt Andersen, thanks so much for being here.
ANDERSEN: Thank you.
TAPPER: Thanks for classing up the joint.
ANDERSEN: Thanks. My pleasure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION", Education Secretary Linda McMahon, former Vice President Mike Pence and author Jonathan Haidt. That's Sunday at 9:00 a.m. and noon Eastern on CNN.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.
