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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Judge Declares Mistrial In Clancy Case After Jury Deadlocks; Looking Ahead To Holiday Travel Prices; Rep. Mike Lawler (R-NY) And Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-NJ), Is Interviewed About Push Bill Requiring 9/11 Curriculum In All 50 States; WSJ: Fetterman Skips Meetings, Shows Little Interest In Doing Job.. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 04, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: I hope all of you at home have a wonderful Labor Day weekend as well. If you want to spend some of it with us, you can watch more of The Arena tomorrow. The Arena Saturday airs at noon and again at 4:00 pm Eastern. It'll be right here on CNN. I'd love to have you join us.

You also, of course, can always stream The Arena live. You can catch up whenever you want. We are in the CNN app. It's on that QR code below.

And you can catch up by listening to our podcast. You can follow the show on X and Instagram. We're at thearenacnn. But don't go anywhere, "The Lead" anchor by Phil Mattingly starts right now.

[17:00:31]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: A mistrial for Lindsay Clancy. So what happens next? The Lead starts right now. Another dramatic day in court ending with a mistrial in Lindsay Clancy's murder trial. The jury saying in a note, quote, "It is with a heavy heart that we report we are unable to come to a unanimous decision.

So will the Massachusetts woman face another trial over allegations of killing her three children? We're going live to the courthouse in moments. Plus, a number of Democrats now calling for Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania to resign after a stunning Wall Street Journal article detailed a man who appears to have little interest in actually doing his job. Those details and the text messages the Journal obtained are ahead.

And families traveling this Labor Day weekend will see higher prices at nearly every turn. Hotels, airport, fair gas, all more expensive. But that doesn't mean the rest of your weekend or upcoming holiday travel has to break the bank. Points Guy is here with tips to save you stress and money.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper. We begin with breaking news in our Law and Justice Lead and the triple murder trial of Lindsay Clancy ending in a mistrial after nearly six weeks of testimony, more than 80 witnesses, 300 exhibits and almost 40 hours of jury deliberations. In a dramatic turn of events this morning, the jury sent a note to the court saying with a heavy heart it could not unanimously decide whether Clancy is criminally responsible for killing her three children in 2023. And most strikingly in the note, the jurors were definitive, saying they, quote, "will not be able to."

The judge then announced he would declare a mistrial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE WILLIAM SULLIVAN, PLYMOUTH COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT: The jury did not ask to be sent back, which would be a possibility if they had requested it. But under the statute and the case law, I don't feel I have any choice but to declare a mistrial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Prosecutors agreed with the judge's decision. But in an intense courtroom moment, Clancy's defense attorney objected, requesting time to file an emergency appeal with Massachusetts high court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN REDDINGTON, LINDSAY CLANCY'S ATTORNEY: What I'm asking for is time to file a single justice --

SULLIVAN: Right.

REDDINGTON: -- appeal for this travesty. That's what I'm asking for.

SULLIVAN: So you're asking for emergency stay at this point?

REDDINGTON: Yes.

SULLIVAN: Right.

REDDINGTON: And the jurors don't have to come back tomorrow. They can be told -- they don't even have to come back if I lose the motion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Clancy's defense did, in fact lose that appeal. Then shortly after 2:20 p.m. Eastern, the judge officially declared a mistrial and discharged the jury.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SULLIVAN: I understood that you all gave everything you could. You braced for that duty. You performed that duty. And I just kind of wanted to thank you on behalf of myself and behalf of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

MATTINGLY: Moments after court wrapped up, Clancy's attorney also thanked the jurors. Well, most of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REDDINGTON: Where do I begin to thank these jurors? Minus one. They were robbed by one man for whatever his agenda was. And you could see how defeated they were sitting there. And I got a funny feeling that they would have gone on for another week if they had to. So I hope that guy can sleep well at night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Let's get straight to CNN Legal Correspondent Jean Casarez outside the courthouse in Massachusetts. Also with me, former prosecutor and trial attorney Katie Phang and CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson.

Jean, it is only right we start to you -- with you, given the tireless coverage you've had throughout the course of this trial. Let's -- we heard from the prosecution after court today as well. What are they saying right now?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We did, and it's significant because we haven't heard from prosecutors at all. We still have not heard from the assistant district attorneys, and I don't think we will because if there is a retrial, they will be retrying this case. But we've heard from the elected district attorney of Plymouth County, Massachusetts, right where we are here, and he explained to the people exactly why they brought this prosecution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIMOTHY CRUZ, PLYMOUTH COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Our priority has always been to fight for Cora, for Dawson and for Callan. The noise in this case may be louder than it is for other prosecutions in our county, but we have treated it the same as any other case. Children were murdered and it's our job to seek justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:05:07]

CASAREZ: They also said that in his remarks that the postpartum community, that that is a significant issue. It's something that should be addressed. But this case was specifically about the actions of the defendant, Lindsay Clancy on or about January 24th of 2023. He focused that they will make their decision in the future if they retry this case. But he was peppered by women at the end of what -- his remarks, and they were -- they were questions that we'll just say were not nice toward him at all.

And he said, look, I don't have to take this. I don't have to respond to this. And then he left. He stopped taking the questions because they were so anti anything about this prosecution at all. He just couldn't continue.

MATTINGLY: Katie, just to trace back through kind of the dramatic sequence of events over the course of the last 24 hours that landed this trial in a mistrial, what's your take about how it all played out? KATIE PHANG, TRIAL ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: It was unprecedented. I mean, there may be some small historical legal precedent we can point to, but really not. If you think about what happened today, the fact that there was this brief moment in where an emergency petition was made to a higher court right before a mistrial was declared, I mean, that is wild. In all of the decades that I've been practicing law, that doesn't happen. But what's really important to know here is the prosecution carried a burden to be able to prove, beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt, the charges that were brought against Lindsay Clancy.

And I would submit to you, Phil, that now the prosecution will continue to carry another burden. Because un -- I can guarantee, bet my bottom dollar, Kevin Reddington will say that double jeopardy will attach if they try to retry Lindsay Clancy. That manifest necessity for the judge to declare a mistrial did not exist today. And as a result, the prosecution is barred from being able to do so. But as a former prosecutor myself that tried homicide cases, the groundswell of support for Lindsay Clancy, that 11 to one vote, would make me have a little bit of a come to Jesus moment with my office as a prosecutor to decide whether or not we should retry this case.

MATTINGLY: Yes, it seems without question, as they try and think through the next steps. That's a key component of things.

Joey, I want to go back to the back and forth between the judge and Clancy's defense attorney this morning. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REDDINGTON: I would ask that you specifically direct their attention to proof beyond a reasonable doubt and reinstruct them on that forcefully.

SULLIVAN: I think I did that yesterday. Didn't I?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

REDDINGTON: You did it yesterday. You did it soft. You didn't do it forcefully. And I'm asking --

SULLIVAN: I mean, what -- I mean, what do you want -- what do you want me to do?

REDDINGTON: I want --

SULLIVAN: Get a brass band. I read the instruction as written by the SJC.

REDDINGTON: Well, my point, Judge, simply, is that you're kind of glossing over the issue. The issue is this juror was will not, according to that note, apply the law of reasonable doubt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Joey, what did you make of that exchange? Both Reddington's demeanor, but also what he was trying to get at there.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Phil, you know, this is a case, like many other cases, where tensions are always high. And a defense attorney's job is to advocate for their client, not to please the judge or to play nice with the judge. And what the defendant -- defense attorney was doing in protecting the defendant in this case was saying, listen, Judge, I think that you have to bring it home to the jury with respect to what reasonable doubt is, and the judge does not want to tip the scale one way or the other.

What do I mean by that, Phil? What I mean is that when a judge reads an instruction, a judge reads an instruction such that it's clear enough for the jury to get it and understand it. And if a judge highlights particular portions of it, right, such that the judge is having an opinion as to what's significant and what's not, it could demean other portions. So the judge has to be careful. He doesn't need a band.

He is not an actor. He's a judge. Remember the role of all the parties in the courtroom. That defense attorney is advocating for his client because he believes that she did not appreciate the rightfulness or wrongfulness of her actions. The prosecutor's job is to prosecute.

The judge is merely a referee with respect to the law, what that law means. And the jury ultimately decides the factual issues. So things like that in court happen every day around America, where you get into it with a judge, you don't see eye to eye. You get or try to get the judge to see it your way. In this particular instance, the judge was not having it and believe he did his job.

MATTINGLY: Jean, walk people through what's next here. What do you expect?

CASAREZ: Well, there's going to be a hearing on 29 September, a status check, and the defense is going to have a couple of motions to put on the record. But I think the issue now is a potential jury pool right in this county. This is not that large of a county, and everyone knows this case backwards and forwards. They can quote testimony because I've talked to people from this community.

[17:10:15:]

So there has to be a cooling off period, as they call it in the law, so that jurors can get back to normal because they've got to have jurors that are not going to be biased at this point. Everybody's going to know about the case. But it's interesting because with Kevin Reddington, the way he was attacking that one juror that was on the other side, that would not go with the other 11. If potential jurors hear that, they may not want to serve, because you would hate to be the brunt of Kevin Reddington's comments.

MATTINGLY: Katie, I want to take the point Jean was just making and thread it back into the last point you were making in terms of what the prosecution is doing right now, how they're thinking through the next steps, but also how they're thinking about what just happened. How are prosecutors ever going to find somebody or find a jury that isn't aware of this case?

PHANG: Well, realistically, I don't think you're going to be able to do so. Let's be honest. We -- when we're doing jury selection, we ask people, when they are sitting in voir dire or the jury selection process, whether they are familiar, their, you know, ability to be able to access the media prior to, I don't know if you're ever going to be able to truly find a juror.

Now, listen, that's not the standard. The standard isn't, hey, have you never not heard of this, or are you not familiar with the facts? The standard is whether or not you can be fair and impartial. And I kind of want to mention something about the jurors, though, because this is incredibly relevant to what Jean just said. The judge just entered an order this afternoon stating that the identities of the empaneled jurors will remain anonymous and confidential for another 14 days.

And so there is clearly more time between 14 days now and that September 29th status hearing, right? And so it'll be interesting to see, once those identities are revealed, what that one juror holdout has to say about the dynamics behind that door in that jury room.

MATTINGLY: Yes, that is absolutely the case. My thanks to all of you for your expertise and just great work. Appreciate it.

And we've got much more on our breaking news --

JACKSON: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: -- on the Lindsay Clancy trial. Up next, how this trial reignited a conversation about maternal mental health and the resources offered to women struggling after childbirth.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:16:24]

MATTINGLY: We're back with more of our coverage of the Lindsay Clancy trial after a shocking twist in court. The judge declaring a mistrial after the jury failed to reach consensus in the case that has absolutely gripped a country of court watchers. The defense's argument that Clancy was suffering from postpartum psychosis when she killed her three child -- three young children sparked a nationwide debate over maternal mental health.

Reproductive psychiatrist Dr. Catherine Birndorf from the Motherhood Center of New York joins me now. Jean Casarez is back with us.

And Jean, just to start with you, because you've done really important reporting outside the courtroom. We've seen the hundreds of women in pink outside the courtroom over the last few weeks. A number of women in pink today actually inside the courtroom, all supporting Lindsay Clancy throughout the trial. How are they feeling about the mistrial decision?

CASAREZ: Well, first, let me tell you about the jurors inside the courtroom. When the judge issued and ordered the mistrial, female jurors were shaking their head. They just were so upset. Some were clasping their hands. One juror, when the judge said, you should be so proud for being the jury, you were.

One female juror was like, uh-uh, nope, not at all. Now, outside, they had the same emotions, the same reactions, because everyone in the courtyard, they were for Lindsay Clancy. And you know what they're saying that if the prosecution decides to retry this case, they're going to amp it up and they're going to be out there, they're going to be supporting her, and there may be many, many more here at the courthouse.

MATTINGLY: Dr. Birndorf, postpartum psychosis at the center of the defense's argument here, what do you make now of the amount of attention on that condition throughout this trial, given there's no verdict either way?

DR. CATHERINE BIRNDORF, CO-FOUNDER, CEO & MEDICAL DIRECTOR, THE MOTHERHOOD CENTER OF NEW YORK: I think that maternal mental illness is real and people recognize that, particularly women who see themselves. But people are struggling to believe that mothers could actually have mental illness in pregnancy and in the postpartum. And it's like anathema. But these are just illnesses. Postpartum psychosis, depression, anxiety, OCD illnesses just like hypertension or diabetes.

I don't even know why it's a debate, but I can see that this was bringing to the fore these illnesses as real illnesses. And everyone knows it's true.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Awareness and the importance of the conversation was certainly part of this entire process over the course of the last few weeks.

Jean, the jury appeared to be split 11 to one towards acquitting Clancy before the judge declared this mistrial. How will that impact the prosecution's argument if there's a retrial?

CASAREZ: They've got to look. They've got to look, assess and potentially even try to talk to the female jurors to see what swayed them so strongly. You know, the prosecution in this case, they told the jury and their experts told the jury through testimony that Lindsay Clancy had a mental disease or defect on January 24th of 2023, that she had it. But the way they approached it was an altruistic filicide, filicide killing your children. That she loved her children very much and she had chosen to take her own life and she didn't want to leave her children without a mother.

But that theory right there did not gel with the jury as the defense theory did. You know, the prosecution touched on all of this. First time we have ever heard the prosecution coming out, the district attorney of this county coming out, talking about this case and their theory. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:20:00] CRUZ: This case is not about a health care system or about how women are treated in it or what diagnoses there are in the DSM or what there are not. Those are all important issues. They stir up emotion, and sometimes they stir up anger. In this job, it is the facts ultimately decide how you act, not the opinions of observers. Several steps removed from our court proceedings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: So what he's actually saying right there is the evidence spoke, the jurors that believed Kevin Reddington's side had the winning argument, that they were looking at outside forces and not the relevant issues of the actions of the defendant on that specific day.

MATTINGLY: Dr. Birndorf, Lindsay Clancy and her husband are both pursuing individual medical malpractice lawsuits against a number of doctors. I believe in hospital systems, alleging she was prescribed nine different psychiatric medications in the months leading up to the killings and alleging those providers failed to coordinate her care. What do you make of the basis for the case there?

BIRNDORF: Look, I think there were a lot of medications, and it can take several medications to treat postpartum psychosis. There's also trial and error and medications that are prescribed that aren't necessarily taken. So I don't make much of that. And what I also know is that not all doctors and most medical professionals really -- they've never seen postpartum psychosis, and they don't know how to -- they're not aware of it. They don't know how to treat it.

They're not experts in it. So we are asking jurors, let alone medical professionals, to know something that they actually don't know that much about. So who knows what will turn out there? But I think these awareness around these issues, more training, more expertise, more treatment centers like the Motherhood Center, it's so essential that all of this comes to the fore. And that's what this has done for maternal mental health.

MATTINGLY: To that point, Dr. Birndorf, I know you work with pregnant women and new mothers, can you talk about --

BIRNDORF: Yes.

MATTINGLY: -- the stigma they face around asking for help and how it can be a deterrent?

BIRNDORF: Absolutely. Well, I think what's so wonderful about this, if you can say that, is that people -- this has given people permission to come forward and to step up being silent and to feeling ashamed and to say, hey, I have something wrong, too. I'm a good mother. I'm a mother who loves my kids, and I'm struggling. We see women every day who want children, who've gone through to great lengths to have them, and then once they have them, they don't feel attached, they don't feel loved, they don't feel anything and they can't figure out what's wrong.

And it's not because they're bad mothers or should they have had children, it's because they have illness. Illness that's treatable. If we can recognize it, we can prevent it, we can treat it and people fully recover. So it's so essential that we pay attention to this now.

MATTINGLY: Dr. Catherine Birndorf, grateful for your expertise and sharing it. Jean Casarez, great work as always, my friend. Thank you both.

BIRNDORF: Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Road trip anyone? Millions are hitting the road this holiday weekend. But the getaway getting a bit pricey from gas to airfare to hotel hotels. We've got ways to save. Plus, why you want to book that Holiday travel now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:27:47]

MATTINGLY: In our Money Lead, not the news you want to hear if you're hitting the road this Labor Day weekend, gas prices at holiday highs. In fact, GasBuddy is predicting pump prices will be their highest ever for a Labor Day.

AAA says the national average for a gallon of regular is $4.15. And diesel, you don't -- you don't want to talk about diesel. It hit an all-time U.S. high today at $5.85 a gallon. Jet fuel costs also remain high, driving up travel prices. So we're going to talk to an expert about what this all means, what you should be doing.

That would be The Points Guy, Brian Kelly.

Brian, always appreciate your expertise and counsel. What's the biggest sticker shock travelers should be thinking about prepared for? Gas, airfare or hotels right now?

BRIAN KELLY, FOUNDER, THE POINTS GUY: Well, gas is up about 30 percent year over year and flights around 20 percent. And as we look forward to the holiday season, we're anticipating them to stay around that. So everything is up. The only thing that isn't up so much is cruising. So there are still some deals if you like cruising.

But yes, in general travels up across the board.

MATTINGLY: You mentioned kind of looking forward to the holiday season right now. We know that the jet fuel costs led to higher airfares this summer. Thanksgiving, Christmas, fares already up. What people be doing? Should they be booking those trips now instead of waiting?

Should they wait? What's your sense of it?

KELLY: Well, we teamed up with Points Path and analyzed millions of airfares and the sweet spot is this next week. So until about September 10th for the Thanksgiving holiday, if you're booking domestic travel, so I would book it within the next week. And if you're traveling internationally at any point this fall, book it now. In general, international fares go up as departure date comes closer. So in general, you want to time it.

Google Flights has a great feature, so when you're searching for flights, it'll actually tell you if the flight is low. If you ever see a low flight these days, book it because chances are it's not going to get lower. And you can also set alerts so that if airfare drops, you can book it.

MATTINGLY: Can I -- this is a technical question that might not be that technical. Like what qualifies as a low fare at this point?

KELLY: Well, everything is contextual. Every single route, it depends. And no single person can answer that. That's why you have to use data. And Google Flights has billion of data sets, so they know more than anyone, even your friend who's a travel expert on any given route, it really depends on the demand past, whether the airlines have added capacity.

[17:30:15]

So I really do trust Google Flights. It's free to use google.com/flights. I think most flight experts start there when hunting for flights.

MATTINGLY: Yes, maybe don't trust the anecdotal thoughts of like your salesman friend, go that route. All right, can I ask, what's the best strategy to make sure you don't regret it if you purchase a fare now and it drops later?

KELLY: Yes, if it drops later, you can always reprice it. Now, most of us are too busy to keep checking and I don't even do that myself. I use sites, there's one called Junova, J-U-N-O-V-A. It's an A.I. repricing tool.

So it's free, you give it your flight and if they can find a lower price and get you a voucher, they just take a portion of the voucher they get you. So I love using tools like that. But remember, when using frequent flyer miles, most of the U.S. programs will let you cancel for free up until departure.

So if you book a ticket today for the holidays and it's really high, keep checking. And if it drops, you know, some of the airlines will let you rebook it and automatically give you the miles. Others, you may have to call. But frequent flyer miles are very easy to deposit and rebook when a better option opens up.

MATTINGLY: I would not ask you to have a crystal ball, like even you can't predict the future given what's been going on over the course of the last year or five. But what would determine kind of a reversal in the trajectory of prices? Is it solely based on the conflict in Iran right now? Are there other elements you're looking at?

KELLY: There's a lot of elements. Most is demand. So if there were to be any other, you know, events that would scare people from traveling, but you know, Scott Kirby, the CEO of United was asked point blank, hey, what do you think about airfare? And if there's anyone with an inkling, he said that they're pretty much high fares are here to stay. If the war suddenly ended, the Strait was open and oil was flowing, that certainly I think would bring pressure down. But, you know, the airline CEOs have said, well, consumers are paying the higher rates. And so I wouldn't be hopeful for huge relief anytime soon.

MATTINGLY: That last point is very, very critical. Brian Kelly, I somehow always learn like 15 things when I talk to you. Thank you as always for your expertise.

KELLY: Thanks for having me.

MATTINGLY: Well, there's a new bipartisan push to make sure children across the United States are taught about the attacks on September 11th, 2001, the impact they had on our country. The lawmakers behind this, join me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:37:02]

MATTINGLY: In our National Lead, in one week from today, this country will mark 25 years since the September 11th attacks. My next two guests want to make sure that all students in all 50 states learn about the horrific events and how it changed the country forever. Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey and Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York join me now. Appreciate your guys' time.

Congressman Lawler, you said that by teaching this story of 9/11, we honor those we lost on that day, celebrate the heroism, and prepare for the future generations to remain vigilant. Can you walk us through what this curriculum would look like?

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): I was on my fifth day of freshman year of high school on September 11th. And obviously that had a profound impact on our country, the state of New York and New Jersey, as well as, you know, our communities that we represent.

And to today, we are still losing 9/11 first responders to 9/11 health-related illnesses. And when you think about the fact that over 100 million people have been born in the United States since 9/11, the fact is that they were not born on that day and have no memory of it. And so it is imperative, like with anything in history, that we teach it.

And I think about the fact that next Friday, I'm going to be attending dozens of 9/11 ceremonies across my district and yet, when you look at Pearl Harbor, only one community in my district still has a Pearl Harbor remembrance ceremony. As people die, as generations, you know, pass on, we tend to forget and we lose sight of these important moments in our history and what defined our history. So teaching this in our schools, teaching what happened on 9/11 to lead up to 9/11 and the aftermath is vital to make sure that we truly never forget and that we do everything in our power as a country to ensure this never happens again.

MATTINGLY: It's such a good point. It was such a foundational moment in my life, I feel like in everybody's life, that it's almost impossible to think about that 100 million number and the necessity of it. It's also something that makes you think about, like, where we are now from a security perspective and what we've learned and what we've been able to implement.

Congressman Gottheimer, your push for this legislation comes as a bipartisan Intelligence Committee 9/11 Review Task Force, which you co-chair, is out with a new report. You say there are still dangerous gaps in intelligence sharing. Explain.

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): Well, that's right, but to Mike's point, and, you know, I think Mike and I, because we live near each other and thousands of people not only perish that day but continue to perish, and we know their families, we get together every year. It's really hard to believe it's been 25 years. We all, as you pointed out, we remember exactly where we were, but you think about it, a lot of our new educators in the classroom weren't alive, many of them, right? They're just coming, right? They're just starting to teach.

[17:40:09]

They didn't know it themselves. So it's really important to make sure we actually have these lessons and lesson plans and that we teach our kids. Only 15 states actually have requirements to teach about 9/11 despite the 100 million, as you said, weren't born then, so we have to make sure we don't forget. And part of what we focused on in the 9/11 commission report, which analyzed 25 years since the first 9/11 commission report to see what's been effective and where we need to move forward.

The biggest thing I learned from our work is to make sure, as we said that day, we didn't have enough imagination, the failure of imagination, and we need to make sure we continue to think of the next threats. We have A.I., we have drones. The threats are online as much as they are in person, and the question is, is our intelligence community structured and prepared for the threats of tomorrow and the ones we're facing imminently today, and I think that's the biggest thing.

And the biggest problem back then was the stovepiping that went on between our 18 intelligence agencies, right? The silos, and the key is making sure, because time, you start to head back into those silos where we're not sharing intelligence. That's the biggest thing, also, that we've got to make sure doesn't happen, that there is this sharing of intelligence because it happens so fast so that we're prepared to fight back against our adversaries.

MATTINGLY: My thanks to Congressman Gottheimer and Lawler.

Well, we're less than two months from the midterms, and some vulnerable Republicans are trying to find a way to tell the President, please stay away. Is that a good strategy? Our panel weighs in next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:46:07] MATTINGLY: In our Politics Lead, a damning new report about Senator John Fetterman paints a grim picture of his performance in Washington. According to "The Wall Street Journal," the Pennsylvania Democrat shows little interest in doing his Senate duties, routinely skipping meetings with constituents and fellow lawmakers while making time for conservative media. The article details one instance when Fetterman bailed on a group of paralyzed veterans claiming he didn't feel well. But then, just an hour later, he walked into his office showing no signs of illness for an interview with "Fox."

"The Journal's" reporting is based on interviews with more than a dozen former Fetterman staffers as well as text messages and internal records. "The Journal" also says Fetterman's office ignored multiple requests for comments. My panel joins me now, and it includes Siobhan Hughes of the Wall Street Journal, one of the reporters who was on the co-byline of this story.

I want to start on that last part, because in the process of doing stories like this, it's one of those things where the office, maybe even the member themselves, will sit down with you and be like, here's the 5,000-word reason why your story is wrong. It was that damning. They didn't respond. According to the article, they didn't respond at all.

SIOBHAN HUGHES, REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: The Fetterman office did not respond at all, and they had multiple chances to respond. I, my colleague Will Hobson both reached out to the office. Will went up, he drove up to Erie, Pennsylvania to talk to Fetterman in person at one of the few appearances he's had in the state, and it was crickets.

MATTINGLY: Why do you think that is?

HUGHES: You know, Fetterman does have a habit of walling himself off when there is information he doesn't want to hear or doesn't want to be presented with, and that's certainly consistent with that.

MATTINGLY: Meghan, his party, his colleagues, aren't exactly running to his defense here. You know, former Democratic Congressman Conor Lamb saying, John, if there's a decent bone left in your body, just quit. It's an insult to the decent people in our state for you to treat them in the office this way. What do you hear, like, in the party right now? People have been frustrated with Fetterman for a long time.

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING: Yes, I mean, I think that most Democrats would wish that he would resign. I don't know that people want him to resign immediately because I think that there's a little worry that Democrats would lose a seat in Pennsylvania, that it would go to a Republican. But then you're also worried that he's going to caucus with Republicans at some point.

So I think Democrats are just -- they're in a position here. They don't really know what to do. He's not serving his constituents well. He's not fulfilling his duties as a senator, right? It's a real problem here, and I don't envy Chuck Schumer for having to deal with it.

MATTINGLY: Bob, as a very savvy man of this town who knows how things work and knows the people who make them work, Meghan's point about potentially caucusing with Republicans, that has also been hanging out there throughout every part of this process. He said it's not going to happen. Where is this going on that front? I know that's political, not necessarily --

BOB CUSACK, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Sure, sure. Well, Phil, he's up in 2028. There is no way he can win a Democratic primary. No way. So he either has to become an Independent or a Republican. Now, as you said, he's denied it, but he's opened the door just a little bit. He's criticized Democrats for being anti-Israel, and he said if that continues, you never know, basically. So this is one to watch.

He could -- I don't think he's going to be changing parties or leaving the Democratic Party before the election, but after the election? This Senate race, you know, the battle for the Senate is so close. We could have a 50-50 split, and guess what? He could flip it.

MATTINGLY: Yes, he could become essentially, and you make this point. He could become a kingmaker, depending on how things go, and changes the dynamic, changes the math. Carine, in the report, there's this exchange between the senator and his aide regarding a children's hospital of Philadelphia known as CHOP. The senator texts, why do I have to keep having to meet with CHOP? His aide responds, because they are worried about vaccines and Medicaid cuts. Fetterman writes back, well, I'm not, and I'm convinced they just want free trips to D.C.

CARINE HAJJAR, MEMBER, WASHINGTON POST EDITORIAL BOARD: I think Americans are probably really exhausted. There's probably so much fatigue around sort of this dehumanizing rhetoric you hear from politicians broadly, and this seems to be another blow. The timing is incredibly awkward for Democrats, not only because of the implications for the Senate going into the midterms, but also voters aren't just tired of the rhetoric.

[17:50:12]

They're also extremely tired of somebody who seems out of touch, who isn't focusing on constituents. There are huge questions right now about the Democratic establishment and what that means. Fetterman ran as an outsider, in a way, but now he's part of that establishment, and this entire debacle shows that he is out of touch with his constituents. It's incredibly awkward for Democrats.

MATTINGLY: Out of touch, and Siobhan, you guys wrote this so well, like out of touch with his brand, like who he was when he ran in 18, when he ran and lost, what was it, governor or primary prior to winning his Senate seat. I'm interested where you think this goes next. Like they're out right, are they out right now? The House is out right now.

HUGHES: The Senate is out right now, but, you know, we were talking a little bit beforehand. The next big thing is on September 14th, when the Senate comes back into session, they all stream in, and oh, by the way, this story can't move on because a group of former Fetterman staffers has formed an account on the social media site X where they plan to release additional information, additional texts to really drive home the point, and so everybody's going to have to answer this question.

MATTINGLY: And you're reporting that's a legitimate account?

HUGHES: I have verified that account. I have talked to a former aide who has said yes, that's legitimate.

MATTINGLY: Yes, this news cycle is not going to go away. Bob, there's another news cycle that people are going to be paying attention to next week. That'll be the president in Dallas.

CUSACK: Yes.

MATTINGLY: "Politico's" got a piece about sub-swing district Republicans who aren't sold on having the president campaign for them, one Republican in a competitive race saying this about their conversations with pollsters related to Trump. Some of the guidance has been you're blanked if you mention him too much, and you're blanked if you don't stay in his good graces. So that is the problem, which, no, that would seem to be a problem.

CUSACK: That's a big problem, especially with the House and Senate being, you know, so close, and probably the House flips and the Senate will see. But this is a fear factor issue, and Republicans are stuck because they fear Donald Trump. And if you publicly say, yes, Mr. President, I don't want you to come to my district or state, well, then he could lash out at you.

They need his base to show up. So they're kind of stuck, and that's why Republicans are in a position, both on Iran and whether to invite Trump, whose now approval ratings are in the 30s. I mean, this is dire situation. Over the last month, the pendulum has swung toward Democrats taking not only the House but the Senate.

MATTINGLY: Yes, they also need his money. If it comes. I'm not sure, you're on the trail. You have visited these races. You've been on the ground in these places. Do you think Trump is in albatross like some of these quoted operatives seem to think?

HAJJAR: I mean, certainly in battleground races, and it's not just the reputation or the approval. It's also, as you said, the money. I think it's $400 million in a pack. Loyalty to the President is really important to getting his support. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's very difficult right now for Republicans who are running in purple districts, and the President certainly isn't making it easier from a branding perspective, from games to renaming things to triumphal arches. All of the attention is always on Donald Trump, and that makes it very difficult in battleground states.

MATTINGLY: When you're talking to voters, you don't hear a lot of, like, what I really love is the triumphal arch.

HAJJAR: I'll keep an ear out for that one.

MATTINGLY: Yes. It could be out there. It's just kind of a little bit under the surface. Meghan, who's the -- Meghan Hays, sorry. You got mad at me once at the White House at holidays for eternity.

HAYS: We're still using that catchphrase.

MATTINGLY: The NRCC, National Republican Congressional Committee, is launching a joint ad buy with Congressman Max Miller. Currently facing allegations of domestic abuse, the committee released a statement today saying, in part, Ohioans have a clear choice. Max Miller will vote to stop socialist policies, and Bernie-bro, Brian Poindexter, will make them a reality. This is not a race. NRCC should be spending it.

HAYS: No, absolutely not. I mean --

MATTINGLY: It's a plus-nine, plus-10 district. He's not a front-line member. Like, they're dropping cash in now.

HAYS: No, and actually, I think it's going to impact the governor's race in Ohio and the Senate race in Ohio because people are going to now turn out and vote for the Democrat in this district in a place where they would have voted for the Republican and voted down-ballot, the entire ballot for Republican.

So the entire Democratic ticket in Ohio is going to benefit from this person's horrible decisions. He should have dropped out a long time ago. But I just want to go back to what you were saying about the Republicans not wanting Trump, that they are cowards.

They should say to him, they work for their constituents and they work for the people in their district. They don't work for Donald Trump. And so the fact that they think, oh, we're damned if we do, damned if we don't, that is your problem and you deserve to lose for not standing up to who your boss really is, and that's the people in your district. And that really bothers me because Democrats don't seem to have a problem doing that. People have told Kamala Harris not to come.

MATTINGLY: Do you agree with that?

CUSACK: Well, if you stand up to him, though, if you voted to impeach him, most of those guys are gone.

HAYS: Well, that's a problem. That's a problem with the base, then, because you work for your constituents. You don't work for Donald Trump.

MATTINGLY: But it's the most salient point of, like, one, the guy just never goes away when you think he does, but two, everyone who has crossed him is no longer a sitting member of Congress. And I think it is an absolutely fair point to say, like, fine, if that's the reality of things, like, have a conscience and morals. But, like, these are politicians.

[17:55:11] CUSACK: And Susan Collins just said, Liz Cheney, where's she? She's got no power left.

MATTINGLY: Yes, and Collins' point is, like, look, I'm still on the probes. I still have a role.

HAYS: And what has Donald Trump's economic policies done for these people? They've destroyed these districts. They've destroyed these people, even put them in a position that they have to fight for their lives in these plus-nine districts. I mean, it's unconscionable that people.

MATTINGLY: Man, I mixed one letter up in your last name. You are ready to rock and roll. All right, thank you guys very much. Thanks for coming in.

Well, the first ballots in the midterm elections are being sent out today. But right now, we're getting breaking news in President Trump's fight to curb mail-in voting. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:59:58]

MATTINGLY: The Lead tonight, breaking news in the ballot battle over President Trump's effort to limit mail-in voting, a federal judge just extended a block on Trump's executive order calling for the U.S. Postal Service to enforce new rules on who can get a mail-in ballot.