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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Ads Mentioning Trump Make Up Less Than 1 Percent of GOP Ad Spending; Trump Tells Axios He's Approaching a Major Crossroads; Controversial Left-Wing Streamer Hasan Piker Courts Fresh Scrutiny in Interview With Axios. Paul Whelan Bill Would Compensate Americans Imprisoned Abroad. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired September 17, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, with just 47 days until midterm Election Day, President Trump is boasting about what he sees as big accomplishments. But a new CNN analysis today finds most Republican candidates are actually trying to distance themselves from the president. I'll ask a House Republican what he thinks of the strategy in moments.

Plus, it's not smooth sailing for the Democrats either. Left-wing streamer Hasan Piker causing new headaches for Democrats hoping to flip a key Senate seat in Michigan. Axios Reporter Alex Thompson is here with a new clip from his sit-down with Piker. You're going to see this clip first here on The Lead.

Also, today was the first day of jury selection in the trial of a former American Idol contestant accused of killing his wife and then staging a crime scene. What we're learning about the role his preteen daughters are going to play in the trial.

And he spent more than five years detained in Russia, and now former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan has teamed up with Democratic Congresswoman Haley Stevens on legislation meant to help Americans who had been detained abroad once they return home. Paul Whelan and Congresswoman Stevens are here to explain how this would work.

The Lead tonight, with 47 days until polls close, Republicans, in many ways, are peeling away from their leader. A new CNN analysis shows that Republicans have only aired 12 T.V. ads mentioning Trump in the first half of this month. That's out of the 500 ads plastered all over the airwaves, devoting less than 1 percent of their ad spending to spots specifically mentioning the president, some even going as far as Florida Republican Congresswoman Maria Salazar, who plainly spelled out her opposition to Trump in a brand-new campaign ad out today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARIA SALAZAR (R-FL): Mr. President, some of your immigration enforcement efforts have gone too far. In July, 50 percent of the 50,000 people that were detained had no criminal record. Be careful what your advisers are telling you about immigration policies. The same Hispanics who help you get to the White House in 2024 feel betrayed today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The congresswoman represents a battleground district, her message reflected in new nationwide polls. A New York Times/Siena College poll out this week shows voters preferred Democrats' handling of immigration over Republicans, 52 percent to 45 percent. Immigration, usually strong with the Republican Party and President Trump, not anymore.

Despite all of this, President Trump dug into his immigration message last night, ignoring Republicans clearly who want to campaign without him. He mentioned perhaps his biggest issue as affordability.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: For this election, I'm asking you to pretend I'm on the ballot just one more time. If we lose, you're going to lose your border, you're going to lose your tax cuts, you're going to lose your wealth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Speaking of wealth, gas prices spiked another 7 cents today, ballooning to a national average of $4.44 a gallon, while mortgage rates climbed again today, hitting 7 percent, their highest level since President Trump took office.

Meanwhile, First Lady Melania Trump is posting opulent videos about her preparations for the upcoming state dinner with Chinese President Xi, complete with moody shots of crystal chandeliers and fancy stemware.

Joining us now, Republican Texas Congressman Chip Roy. Congressman, always good to see you.

Can you explain the worldview of the president and first lady when they -- when she puts up that state dinner video, very fancy, but it's giving kind of like Nancy Reagan White House China vibes, and then President Trump talking about how there is no affordability crisis?

REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): Well, Jake, good to be on and I'm never going to try to, you know, explain what someone else is thinking about on any particular issue. But what I can tell you is what the people of Texas are telling me, and people across the country. And, you know, I've been traveling around. I was in Pennsylvania campaigning for my good friend, Scott Perry, just this last weekend. And people are concerned of course about affordability. The president's right to raise it.

It takes a while. Like we've been in this term for 18 months. It takes a while to reverse the mistakes, by the way, of both parties. Both parties have been failing on the spending front. That's driven inflation, that's now got a place where we've got interest rates that are high.

Obviously, the president has taken on Iran, and that's a real issue, right? Iran and having a nuclear weapon is a danger to our ally Israel. It's a danger to the American people. It's a danger to our country. And so I applaud him for taking it on at a time when it was politically challenging to do so.

[18:05:00]

But we need to bring it to a close. We need to have a path forward, and Republicans need to be focused on that path forward, building on what we've accomplished.

By the way, the spending reductions of $1.7 trillion, that was a record. And, Jake, you know that. And that was a hard thing to achieve through the whole debate of the big beautiful bill, and all the things that we were able to achieve on tax policy. And we've got to get serious about spending restraint in order to get interest rates and to get inflation down.

But I'm proud of what we've done on the border. And with all due respect to my colleague from Florida, the people that I talk to are glad that we've been doing what we can do to prevent the tragedies that occurred to Laken Riley, to Jocelyn Nungaray, who I've gotten to know her mother so well. All of the parents that I represent that were dying from kids who were dying from fentanyl poisoning, they're proud of what we've done on the border.

So, my message is, we got to finish the job. And that's what we're saying to people, and that's what I'm going around when I'm campaigning and stumping for other people, that we need to help finishing the job.

TAPPER: Yes. I mean, I think when President Trump took office, I don't think -- I mean, first of all, his immigration policy was one of the reasons he was elected the second time. But I think the issue was a lot of people expected they were going to go after the worst of the worst, the bad -- the so-called bad hombres. And yet we've seen people who are not the worst of the worst, not bad hombres being taken, and then obviously there was what happened in Minneapolis.

Your colleague, Congresswoman Salazar, says she's not advocating for amnesty, just dignity. And now we have an issue that Republicans used to have the advantage on, immigration, and voters are saying they prefer Democrats over Republicans on the issue. Do you understand why the pendulum swung that much?

ROY: Well, first of all, I'm not sure I accept that the pendulum has swung that much. I think most of the people that I talk to, again, not just Republicans. I mean, I live near Austin, Texas. I've got a pretty diverse set of opinions in Austin. And people are very happy that our streets are safer, that we're not having as much fentanyl, that we don't have as many cartel problems and gang problems in South Texas.

And those were very real, ranchers getting run over, lifetime Democrats, by the way, longtime Texas Democrats, longtime Texas Hispanic Democrats in South Texas, who are still delighted that the secure border has made their lives a lot better.

And, by the way, on the removals, with all due respect, we've removed a lot of bad hombres. We've removed a lot of people that were dangerous, that were engaged in, you know, assaults and had criminal records. And, yes, it's not an easy job to go through and start removing people who are here illegally. But they're here illegally, and there are other factors, fraud all of the things that add up in expenses and costs for people, particularly in Texas, where you've got healthcare and you've got education and all of those things.

So, you're trying to remove the bad hombres. You're trying to remove people who are here illegally, and do it to have sanity in our system, and, by the way, address our legal immigration issues as well. We've made progress, but with all due respect, our Democrat colleagues are not exactly sitting down with us to try to figure out how to move legislation that we can work together. So, obviously, we had to do everything, including fund ICE and Border Patrol using reconciliation rather than a sit-down and a bipartisan appropriations matter. We had to do it through reconciliation.

TAPPER: Well, I don't want to re-litigate what happened during the Biden years, but there was a bipartisan measure that your colleague from Oklahoma was working hard on and President Trump pressured Republicans to drop it.

But I do want to ask --

ROY: Well, hold on, Jake. I -- no, I opposed --

TAPPER: I know I shouldn't have brought it up. Okay.

ROY: I know. I opposed that long before President Trump said anything, and I was right to oppose it because that was going to make permanent the very bad policies that were making all of the damage to our country under asylum and parole and catch and release policies.

TAPPER: I'm just saying Democrats and Republicans were working together on it. But, anyway, good to see you, Republican Congressman Chip Roy from Texas, I appreciate your time.

ROY: Good to see you, Jake.

TAPPER: President Trump said today he's at a major crossroads as he decides his next step in the Iran war. How much should we read into those comments, and what options are actually on the table? Our foreign policy experts are here to react next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:10:00]

TAPPER: Our World Lead now, in a new interview with Axios, President Trump says he's approaching a, quote, major crossroads in the Iran war, saying, quote, I have a big decision coming up. Do I want to go in and annihilate them or do I not? It's a big decision. Anything could happen with me, unquote. That's true. CNN National Security Analyst Alex Plitsas joins us along with David Corn, who's the Washington, D.C. bureau chief for Mother Jones. David is the author of a brand-new book. It's called "How Russia Won: Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, and the Fight for America". Congratulations on the book.

Alex, let me ask you, Trump has made this kind of threat to annihilate Iran before, but significantly, he's supposed to meet with the leaders of six Gulf countries on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly, or UNGA, in New York next week.

ALEX PLITSAS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: He is supposed to meet with them. We found out today that the Iranian delegation, although it's smaller than last year, is coming, along with President Pezeshkian. And there are some critical decision points coming up. So, it's unclear if the blockade is going to work in the short-term and certainly before the end of the year, even administration at this point.

And the Iranians are hanging on. The civilian negotiators are still seem to be out of out of sync with the IRGC when they go back to Iran, the security apparatus, who then negates any deals that are sort of being made. And then the deal the other day that was supposed to be struck with the Omanis, which would've opened up the strait and then potentially lifted a blockade and made their way back to this 14-point plan for negotiations, fell apart when the Iranians issued a statement on behalf of the Omanis, basically saying they were going to control the waterway and use this as a strategic bargaining piece. So, we are no further along right now than we've been.

TAPPER: One thing that's stunning in this Iran war is, and you've confirmed this, CNN reported that Russian spy satellites were moved over a U.S. air base in Saudi Arabia shortly before a particularly devastating attack by Iran on this U.S. air base in March. What more can you tell us before I bring David in to talk about the Russian role here?

PLITSAS: Sure. So, I can confirm that there were about 14 passes over the base in Saudi. We had some strategic aircraft that were there. The CNN reported --

TAPPER: 14 passes by, this Russian --

PLITSAS: Correct. And the damage that was done, the assessment and the CNN's analysis on this was spot on, but it wasn't just limited to that base. They made single passes over a number of other bases, Diego Garcia, where a couple missiles were fired.

TAPPER: That's the island in the middle of the --

PLITSAS: In the middle of the -- right. Also over Jordan, over bases in Qatar and other places. And I know in speaking to some of the Gulf allies earlier today, they also called the Russians out on it in private, and they got nothing but basically lies and denials in response.

[18:15:05]

But it's blatantly clear the Russians provided intelligence that led to U.S. troops being wounded and also destruction of U.S. military equipment.

TAPPER: And, David, this feeds right into your thesis, which is that the Russians are still an enemy of the United States and playing us, and doing everything they can to undermine the United States.

DAVID CORN, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, MOTHER JONES: Not just an enemy. I mean, I wrote this book to talk about what happened after 2016. We argued about whether they intervened in the election here to help Donald Trump.

TAPPER: They sure tried to, no question.

CORN: But I think the evidence is pretty clear they did. But it also happened again and again and again. In 2020 and 2024, they've been running disinformation influence operations against the U.S. through that whole period of time while engaging in this sort of behavior, and all along Trump has been complicit. He denies that Russia's doing anything to intervene here, saying Russia, Russia, Russia, it's the deep state conspiracy. And then when they engage in this activity to help Iran while he's -- we're in a war with Iran, it doesn't seem to bother him.

And even -- you know, there's the trivial side of this, too, with a Russian oligarch paying for Donald Trump Jr.'s wedding.

TAPPER: Well, how do you see that factoring in? How is that part -- how is that connected?

CORN: It's all connected because I think Putin has been waging basically a covert warfare, twilight, not kinetic, against the United States for ten years. And that means trying to influence our elections, but also trying to infiltrate, just get into Trump's inner circle.

I mean, we have Russian disinformation networks in the last week starting to get into social media platforms, like they've done in the past, and disparage Democrats, and help Republicans, obviously to help Trump. And at the same time, we have a report of this guy who's actually in part of Putin's security apparatus.

He's not just one of these Russian business guys coming in, within the last few years, becoming this good friend of Donald Trump Jr., paying for his wedding celebration. I mean, it's -- it doesn't pass the smell test. It's all part of a Russian overarching targeting of the Trump administration.

TAPPER: Not to mention these arrests or these warrants for individuals connected with Russian intelligence who were in the United States and trying to hire people to kill, I think, Russian dissidents, including here in the D.C. area.

Alex, the Iran-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen, they released a video showing what they claim is a Saudi F-15 that they shot down. It would be only the second time one of the U..S-made jets has been shot down. Last week, the Houthis captured a strategic island at the mouth of the Red Sea. How much trouble, more trouble, could the Houthis cause, and can the U.S. do anything about it?

PLITSAS: So, they could certainly cause a lot more trouble. The -- as we're seeing up here on the map, there's an island that's right there in the center. That's the Bab el-Mandeb. So, we've heard a lot about the Strait of Hormuz, which is the entrance on the other side to the Persian Gulf or the Arabian Gulf. This is the entrance to the Red Sea, and the Houthis have previously choked that off. There was a naval battle with the U.S., and then that sort of ended.

Now, there was a round of strikes with the Houthis last year that resulted in a ceasefire agreement with the United States. That seems to have held for right now. So, any blockade out there as of right now is only on Saudi ships. If they decide to try to block off the strait, I think that's going to be a trigger point for potential U.S. action. And right now, I think that the Saudis are being basically asked to take care of this, and unless they block it off or go after international shipping, I don't know that the U.S. is going to get involved immediately.

TAPPER: So, David one other thing having to do with Trump and Russia. In a social media post today, President Trump said the U.S. is making major progress towards establishing an army base in Poland, but wouldn't Putin see that as a challenge?

CORN: Yes, it's interesting because the Polish government is now a conservative government that has, you know, wants to back away from supporting Ukraine.

And remember just a couple months ago ,Trump got mad at Europe, and he said, I'm going to take troops out of Germany and out of other places and put them in Poland. So, it's not so much directed at Russia. It's basically, you know, shooting the finger, as he keeps doing, at NATO and the European alliance.

Poland is part of that, but it's like Hungary was, you know, until the change in government there. So, I think that's what this is about.

And, you know, again and again and again, we see him siding with Putin, even in the last week or two, with Jared Kushner and Trump himself saying the way to end this war is if Ukraine makes concessions to Putin. That's Putin's policy.

TAPPER: Again, David's new book. It's called "How Russia Won: Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin, and the Fight for America". David Corn and Alex Plitsas, thanks so much for being here. I really appreciate it, guys.

A former American Idol contestant is accused of murdering his wife and then staging a crime scene to make it look like it had been a home invasion. Today was the first day in his trial. Those details are next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [18:20:00]

TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, a former American Idol contestant is now at the center of a murder trial. He's accused of killing the very woman who once encouraged him to chase his dream of becoming a singer. Prosecutors say that Caleb Flynn shot his wife, Ashley, inside their Ohio home, then tried to cover it up by staging the scene as if it had been a deadly home invasion. He has pleaded not guilty.

Joining us now, it's CNN's Jean Casarez. Jean, walk us through what happened here. What is the defense's argument?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the defense has quite a story because they say this is the truth. We want to tell everybody they just got a jury, Jake, minutes ago. WHIO, our affiliate in Ohio, is saying there is a jury and opening statements will be first thing tomorrow morning.

But that's Caleb Flynn right there, and he called 911 February of this year. So, this was months ago. It's not like a year ago. This is February 2026, out of his mind, hysterical, saying that his wife had just been shot two times in their home. The door to the garage was open. His car, the center console was up. He did not see anyone at all, and he doesn't know who did this.

[18:25:03]

And law enforcement came. They were consoling him. They have two young daughters that were in the home at the time. And -- but three days later, he was charged with her murder.

And this was a beautiful couple. I mean, Ashley Flynn, the victim, the one that was killed with two shots to the head, she was a substitute teacher. She was a volleyball coach at the middle school. And this is Tipp City, Ohio, where everybody knows everybody, and the community, the outpouring of love for Ashley Flynn right there.

And they were shocked that Caleb was actually charged because he went to Hollywood. He went to Hollywood for American Idol in 2013. He was a pastor, a music pastor for the church, and then he was a church member after that, but very talented in his own right, and he said it, because of his wife is why he got on American Idol. She supported him. And the question is, what do prosecutors have and what is the motive, Jake, because they have not shown their hand on a motive.

We learned today, according to our affiliate, they never found the gun. Never found the gun, and that's important because you're talking ballistics. You got to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Defense says they can't prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. They cannot.

TAPPER: All right. Jean Casarez, thank you so much. Really fascinating, we'll follow this trial.

Coming up next my co-author, Alex Thompson, he's here to share a brand-new clip of an interview with Hasan Piker as Democrats try to distance themselves from the, shall we say, controversial left-wing streamer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, with just 47 days to go until midterm election day, many Democrats are hoping that the far, far-left voices in their party do not hurt their efforts. That includes, of course, streamer Hasan Piker. But Piker, who is no stranger to controversy, in fact, he seems to seek it, just gave Republicans plenty to work with in this final stretch when he sat down with Axios' Alex Thompson, and Alex exclusively brought The Lead this part of his conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX THOMPSON, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, AXIOS: Do you think Iran should be free to build a nuclear weapon?

HASAN PIKER, LEFT-WING STREAMER: I think Iran, much like any other sovereign nation, has a right to defend itself regardless of its domestic policies. My opinion on the matter is not dissimilar to what John Mearsheimer has said, which is that in order to create regional stability in a world where mutually assured destruction is the only way for countries to have sovereignty, it's the same principle that I apply to Ukraine as well, countries that would have nuclear arms in an age of nuclear proliferation are the only countries that can generate true sovereignty.

Now, having said that, do I want Iran to have nuclear arms? No, but I also don't want America or Russia or China to have nuclear arms either.

THOMPSON: Do you think the Middle East would be more stable if Iran had a nuclear weapon?

PIKER: I believe, yes, I think that the Middle East would be more stable. Having said that, once again, I'm not advocating, I'm not trying to, you know, send Iran enriched nuclear uranium nuclear grade enriched uranium.

But with respect to Iran, I think the nuclear conversation is a distraction. Time and time again, they have shown, the Iranian government, regardless of whether you want to trust them or not, you can just look at their actions, have proven that they are utilizing the conversation of enriched uranium as a point of leverage to bring America back to the table to get sanctions relief.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Wow. All right, Alex joins me now.

Alex, I want you to take a listen to what Congresswoman Debbie Dingell from Michigan had to say earlier today about Mr. Piker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): I'm so sick of talking about Hasan Piker, and I want Hasan Piker to go away. I don't know why he had to do that interview. If he wants to see Abdul El-Sayed elected, stop going on television.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, just to answer the question, why are you interviewing Hasan Piker? Why are we covering it? Democrats campaign with him. Abdul El-Sayed campaigned with him in the primary. Mamdani did an interview with him. He appeared at various rallies of very successful DSA candidates who are now probably going to be members of Congress. But is there a way for the Democratic Party to separate themselves from Piker?

THOMPSON: I mean, Hasan Piker has millions of followers on Twitch and other social, you know, streams, which is why all these Democrats, especially on the left wing of the party, are campaigning with him.

Now, maybe that works in like a very deep blue seat, Congressional seat, but in a swing state like Michigan, which is one of the key Senate races this cycle, it could be deadly, which is why, you know, Mike Rogers, the Republican nominee, has really honed in on Abdul El- Sayed, bring in Hasan Piker.

I was actually talking to Democrats today that feels that even though maybe Hasan Piker did rally a lot of like young progressives in the primary, that they felt it was a mistake in the end because he probably could've won the primary anyway, you know, and now it's just become a political liability in the general election.

TAPPER: Piker, in addition to, in that clip comparing a democracy like Ukraine with a theocracy like Iran or the United States -- a democracy like the United States with a theocracy like Iran, he made this comparison from of -- when you asked him which is the worst -- well, let's just play the clip. It's about the United States and Al- Qaeda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMPSON: You once said that America is the top dog in terrorism.

PIKER: Yes.

THOMPSON: Do you think America, then, is worse than Al-Qaeda?

PIKER: Pound for pound, as far as the number of deaths, yes. We have caused tremendous terror all around the world.

I think that that is not only terror that we are waging on regular civilians in nations in the periphery, but it's also having consequences on ourselves.

[18:35:09]

It's having dramatic consequences on the home front. One clear example of this is what we did in Minop, right? There's no distinction between blowing up a school, triple tapping it with Tomahawk missiles. If you're killing 140 schoolgirls, that is an act of terror. This doesn't mean that all Americans are terrorists, but the reality of the matter is we have to create an environment of accountability to ensure things like that never happen again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, Alex, Piker walked away from the conversation, said this was the most contentious interview he's ever done. Why do you think he saw it that way?

THOMPSON: Well, because I pushed him. You know, I mean, Hasan Piker, by his own admission, is a provocateur, says things that, you know, in case, you know, seem to incite political violence or at least suggest that. And, you know, I really pushed him on every single statement.

And the reason I pushed him was because he is influential. He does have a real constituency on the left wing of the Democratic Party. It's why he has become a fixture in this midterm cycle, and he could even become a force in the future. And the Democratic Party, you know, officials at the very top are sort of, you know, a little bit in denial about his appeal, and they just hope he will go away.

You heard that from Representative Debbie Dingell. And, but the fact is that there are a number of Democrats voters that do agree with him, which is why we sat down with him. But I also really wanted to push him because he had not, in my opinion, been really pushed on some of his more controversial views in the past.

TAPPER: Oh, absolutely not. I mean, left-wing and right-wing YouTubers alike have all been rather obsequious.

Alex Thompson, not you, thank you so much. Good to see you as always, my friend.

THOMPSON: Thank you.

TAPPER: My panel joins me now. Hey, guys. All right, Karen, I know you want to say something about Hasan Piker. Just -- no, go. Just what you --

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. It's your show, Jake.

TAPPER: I know, but you have strong feelings about us even doing the segment, so just talk about it.

FINNEY: Well, look, I think the media is building him up for very obvious reasons to try to -- you know, I'm sure the Republicans are putting on a lot of pressure because they have a lot of whack jobs that we have to talk about and people who are aligned with right-wing nationalism --

TAPPER: You know I cover that all the time. FINNEY: I know, but that's what I'm saying. I also know how the game goes. So, if you're on the right, then you say, hey, how come you don't cover the crazies on the left?

TAPPER: I don't --

FINNEY: But I'm just saying I know the game.

TAPPER: I don't think these people are even talking to me. Nobody's talking to me about this. We covered this because Alex did this interview, and it made news, and for the reasons that I gave, which is Democrats have this guy campaigning with them.

FINNEY: Okay. But Jake, he said all these people, three, four I think you counted, out of how many candidates total. And this is not a -- I guess the thing that I resent is he's not someone that has any power, any authority. I don't know that we can say he has real influence because we actually don't know who his followers actually are. I mean, what do we -- some of them could be Republicans. Some of them could be more right wing. I mean, who knows? You don't know. Do you know?

JESSE ARM, VICE PRESIDENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS, MANHATTAN INSTITUTE: Well, yes.

FINNEY: I mean, I'm just saying we don't know who his --

ARM: Yes, I know that right-wingers don't like Hasan Piker. I can say that with near certain.

FINNEY: That's not what I said. But you don't know who his listeners are.

ARM: Oh, I'm sure he's got a lot of fans in Pakistan. I don't doubt he does, yes.

TAPPER: No. But let me come to Karen's defense here after she just dissected me, which is there is the, you know, the horseshoe theory, and you see right-wingers, like Megan, like Tucker, like, you know, whatever, like saying expression as of agreement with Hasan Piker on some things.

ARM: Yes, well, we're --

FINNEY: You stopped Bernie --

TAPPER: So, let him go.

FINNEY: Go ahead.

ARM: Okay, yes. So, we're talking about Abdul El-Sayed who invited Hasan Piker to campaign with him. My gosh. Hasan Piker clearly had some power in that primary. He turned a lot of people out at a lot of campuses, injected some grassroots energy into the campaign. Abdul way underperformed polling in that election, but he did win by the skin of his teeth, knocked out Haley Stevens, who had the support of the broad majority of black voters who are the base of the Democratic Party in Michigan, and now Abdul is the candidate.

And now anytime anyone wants to ask Abdul El-Sayed about why did you bring this scumbag, and let's be honest, this moron, I agree with you there, to campaign with you on the trail, who says things like America deserved 9/11 --

TAPPER: He took that back.

ARM: -- like Al-Qaeda -- oh, he took that one back? Okay. But he said --

TAPPER: In fairness.

ARM: He just said that America is worse than Al-Qaeda.

TAPPER: That is true.

ARM: I'm genuinely not sure which one of those things is a more absurd comment. So, in any event, this guy --

TAPPER: But I'm sure Karen agrees with you on that.

ARM: Right. But the problem is why does Abdul El-Sayed now get to --

FINNEY: You're yelling.

TAPPER: He's just passionate.

ARM: I am passionate.

FINNEY: Okay. You don't have to yell at me.

ARM: I'll bring it down a notch for you.

TAPPER: Okay.

FINNEY: Thank you.

ARM: Why is it that Abdul El-Sayed now gets the courtesy of saying, it's a streamer in California, I've got nothing to do with him, he's no connection to my campaign? He was there.

[18:40:00]

TAPPER: Let me bring in -- guys, get ready for a sot number in question two. So, here is what Abdul El-Sayed, the Senate candidate, Democratic Senate nominee in Michigan, said when asked by Fox about Hasan Piker. Let's play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDUL EL-SAYED (D), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: The reason I talk to Hasan isn't because of Hasan, it's because of the three million people who pay attention to what he has to say. And I think it's important to be able to offer those folks a pathway back into our politics. I understand that's exciting conversation in D.C., but I would encourage you to come to places like Michigan and have conversations with people. I promise you, they don't think that a streamer in California is raising the price of their gas or their groceries. You know who's doing that? The guy right down there who lives in the White House. He's doing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Okay. So, that was, I mean, Abdul talking about Hasan Piker once in Detroit with a local Fox affiliate explaining why he talked to him, and then in D.C. getting mad at people like me, why I wasn't there.

FINNEY: No. I mean, look, in fairness, I mean, I counted it. He got asked about Hasan Piker more than any substantive question about what is going on the ground in Michigan.

TAPPER: Okay. At that event, you mean?

FINNEY: No, across the board in the primary and so far in the general.

TAPPER: Okay.

FINNEY: That I find disgusting, and I think that is a dereliction of duty on our part because I'm more interested in what is happening. What is it that voters are attracted to? What is it that they care about that is resonating?

The point -- I mean, Hasan Piker, what a jerk. Who cares? More importantly, though, I think the other piece of this that is a bigger picture both for the left and the right, there are, you know -- now that we're calling -- you know, you referenced him as a political commentator. As far as I know, he's --

TAPPER: Did I?

FINNEY: Oh, he was -- his chyron was political commentator.

TAPPER: Okay. Okay.

FINNEY: No, I'm just saying, if we're going to legitimize him like that, then --

ARM: Karen, we didn't legitimize him. Abdul El-Sayed legitimized him when he brought him onto the campaign trail as a surrogate. Go look at what he said in front of his own logo, his own Abdul El-Sayed campaign logo back in April. Alex Wren just posted it from Politico to his Twitter earlier today. He said, I'm not willing to disavow any of Abdul El-Sayed's views. It wasn't I want to talk to Abdul -- Hasan Piker's -- excuse me, potato, potato, I mix them up.

TAPPER: It wasn't saying Abdul -- Abdul said he wasn't willing to --

ARM: Abdul said he wasn't willing back in April to disavow any of Hasan Piker's views. He did not say, I'm looking to speak to Abdul's audience.

FINNEY: Okay.

TAPPER: Okay.

ARM: Piker's audience.

TAPPER: Just for the record, the political commentator was Axios chyron.

FINNEY: Axios, okay. So, Axios is --

ARM: He's changed his tone. Abdul has changed his tone.

FINNEY: In fairness, he has answered that question. He has on several occasions talked -- I mean, I'm not --

ARM: He's changed his answer to that question.

FINNEY: Stop yelling at me, man.

ARM: I'm not yelling.

FINNEY: No, it's really pissing me off.

TAPPER: But can I ask you a question?

ARM: Sorry you're upset.

TAPPER: Is there a legitimate difference between us talking about this and talking about, like, Nick Fuentes or Tucker Carlson?

FINNEY: Absolutely not. We should be talking about both. That's what I'm saying. I'm not --

ARM: Yes, you just said we shouldn't talk about Piker.

FINNEY: No, I did not. That's --

ARM: You just said that. That was how you began the segment.

FINNEY: I said that we shouldn't talk about him as someone who is important in the Democratic Party or has power or is a political commentator.

ARM: He is important. He does have power. Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson are important and have power, too, and they're really bad, and I'm happy to talk about them any time you want.

TAPPER: Well, what do you think about them?

ARM: They're really, really bad.

TAPPER: Do you think they have too much influence over the Republican Party?

ARM: Everybody should disavow them within the Republican Party.

TAPPER: You know, we did a piece --

ARM: Everybody in the GOP Congress has disavowed these people for the most part, and anybody who hasn't should soon.

TAPPER: So, let me just say this. We did a piece yesterday on this show about the rising tide of anti-Semitism in the Republican Party, and how many not just like Hasan Pikers, you know, or Nick Fuenteses are, but like Bo French, the Texas Railroad Commission candidate, like whatever.

Like this bigotry, and it's represented by the Hasan Piker's on the left in a smaller number --

FINNEY: As far as we know.

TAPPER: Yes.

FINNEY: Because, look, we don't -- one of the things we don't know is all of these guys, I think we have to be very careful about. I don't think that someone like Tucker Carlson, who I used to work with, should be legitimized. I think we should be very careful about how much we give streamers and YouTube --

ARM: It's not up to you to decide who's legitimized.

FINNEY: I get to finish my sentence now.

TAPPER: Just let her finish and then we're done. Yes.

FINNEY: I just think we have to be -- I am mindful that for those of us who actually do the work and do politics and do our research, that it -- there's a difference between that than some guy you -- I mean, when he's not even --

TAPPER: Of course. And that's -- and just FYI, that's why you're on this platform, as often as I can get you, and not -- and I don't have him on, okay?

FINNEY: That's my point.

TAPPER: A lot of people watch them. But it is true, and Jesse's point is true, which is the Nick Fuenteses of the world and the Hasan Pikers of the world have a lot of big audiences. And thanks to both of you, and I'm sorry if this got too contentious, but it's --

FINNEY: No, I --

TAPPER: It's a well-known --

FINNEY: I can handle it, but I don't think --

TAPPER: I know everybody can handle it.

Anyway, speaking of Haley Stevens, former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan spent five years in Russian detention, but now he's using his platform and his freedom to launch a new project that was just introduced on Capitol Hill by Haley Stevens. We're going to have Haley Stevens and Paul Whelan here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:48:30]

TAPPER: In our world lead, you might remember these incredible images of former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan finally touching down on American soil after being wrongfully detained in Russia for more than five years.

But after the dust settled, Whelan told CNN, quote, "For people like me who have come home after five and a half years, we really don't have very much. House is gone. Cars are gone. Employment's gone. No health insurance," unquote.

Now he and his congresswoman, Michigan Democrat Haley Stevens, are working on passing new legislation that would provide a lump sum to Americans returning from similar situations.

And Paul Whelan and Congresswoman Stevens join us now.

Congresswoman, thanks so much for being here. So, the House has left until after the midterms, and you're going to be out of office come January.

REP. HALEY STEVENS (D-MI): Yeah, you know.

TAPPER: You ran for senate. Um, how likely is this bill to become law? And if it doesn't pass, is there somebody who's going to take up your mantle here?

STEVENS: Well, I would tell you this, Paul Whelan's name in the United States House of Representatives carries so much weight. His story, what he lived through, and now this last piece that we really need to get done, our obligation not just to Paul, but the others who were wrongfully detained and then came home and it just felt like the reintegration stopped at the airport. And that's not right.

So this has been an area of tremendous bipartisan collaboration over my time in Congress.

[18:50:00]

The flag that you're seeing there, that was created through legislation that I helped craft in a bipartisan way, in a Republican congress that passed into law, that was signed by Joe Biden March 9th as Hostage Day of Recognition.

And now it's this piece it's hearing Paul's story five and a half years without income, losing his home, losing his beloved dog. And I want to make this right.

TAPPER: Yeah. And obviously, he was a pawn. He was a representative of the United States --

STEVENS: Of course.

TAPPER: -- through no fault of his own. And, Paul, the bill explicitly does not apply to people going to places that the U.S. State Department tells Americans not to travel to. Why include that in the legislation?

PAUL WHELAN, FORMER RUSSIAN PRISONER: Well, it's a little bit of common sense. Countries like Russia, North Korea, American citizens shouldn't go. There are a few others.

If American citizens take it upon themselves to go there and they're lucky enough to -- after being caught by the FSB to be transferred back, you know, through an exchange process, they wouldn't qualify for the compensation because they put themselves in peril.

Trevor Reed and I, we went as tourists. There were no travel warnings, and the FSB picked us up for no reason other than to elicit a trade from the United States. So once the State Department has said, hey, don't go there. If people go, you know, it's kind of on them.

TAPPER: Paul, this is this legislation is separate and distinct from the Levinson Act, which requires the secretary of state to make mental and physical health care services available to former detainees and their families. We talked about that on the show last year. Let's play just a bit of that for our viewers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What have you heard from the Trump administration about the Levinson Act?

WHELAN: Nothing. I'm trying to meet with Secretary Rubio now so we can discuss, make sure that he understands what the issue is. It shouldn't be me asking Congress to fund this bill. It should be the State Department asking Congress to fund the law.

It shouldn't be up to hostages to ask for benefits. The benefits are in the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, Paul, did you ever get to meet with Secretary Rubio? And did you ever eventually receive your benefits from the Levinson Act?

WHELAN: Well, you know, I haven't met with Secretary Rubio. I know he's very busy running around the world, solving a lot of problems. However, I do interact with the hostage affairs team. And on January 1st, 2026, the State Department started providing the medical care and psychological care benefits to hostages, working with them individually and with their families to ensure that the five-year provision that's in the Levinson act was actually being provided to us.

As you said, the problem we ran into is Congress passed this great, great piece to take care of us. And it wasn't appropriated. So, there was no money. And the State Department said, well, it's not our fault. So we had to kind of, you know, bridge that gap between congress and state. It happened. And now we're being taken care of much better than we were.

TAPPER: And, Congresswoman, while I have you, I have to ask you about Michigan politics since obviously that's a huge Senate race, as I don't need to tell you.

STEVENS: There might be an election coming, an election coming up.

TAPPER: There's a election coming up in just a few days. So, Abdul El-Sayed, who narrowly defeated you in the primary for this open, open Michigan Senate seat? He's been trying since the primary to distance himself from left wing media personality Hasan Piker, who you criticized him for campaigning with --

STEVENS: Hooray! He does need to be distanced from.

TAPPER: So he here is El-Sayed yesterday. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDUL EL-SAYED (D), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: I understand that that's exciting conversation in D.C., but I would encourage you to come to places like Michigan and have conversations with people. I promise you, they don't think that a streamer in California is raising the price of their gas or their groceries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Today, Piker is making some headlines because he told "Axios" that, pound for pound, the United States is worse than al Qaeda when it comes to terrorism and taking life.

Do you think this Piker problem is still a problem in Michigan, not just D.C.?

STEVENS: Well, Piker is a demagogue who's way outside of the bounds of the Democratic Party. That I'm a proud part of, and I don't like it. I'm glad to hear that the nominee saying this has nothing to do with what he's running on anymore.

I will tell you, seeing Paul Whelan here on your show, the last time I got to see him in person was actually at my election night party. The primary is over, but I was proud to spend some time with Paul and my family, as we were watching the votes come in.

I believe Paul Whelan is an American hero. And you're right that come January 2nd, my term in the congress ends. But up until my last day there, I'm working for the people and I'm working for this country and to make things right for people like Paul, like Trevor Reed.

[18:55:08]

We've got other hostages. The president's meeting with Xi Jinping. We've got wrongful detainees in China. Min Zin. I, you know, spent time with his family today. He needs to come home. And I hope the president says something.

TAPPER: All right. Democrat from Michigan, Congresswoman Haley Stevens and Paul Whelan, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our national lead, President Trump's proposal to build a championship golf course in Washington, D.C., or the surrounding area could cost up to $49 million, according to a document reviewed by CNN. Trump, who is obviously an avid golfer, targeted east Potomac. That's an affordable public golf course in D.C. after he visited and claimed it was, quote, dilapidated, worn out and very dangerous and outdated, unquote. The National Park Service will solicit bids in January.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, X and on TikTok @jaketapper.

You can follow the show on x and Instagram at the lead, CNN. If you ever miss an episode of the lead, you can watch the entire show on the CNN app.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now. See you tomorrow.