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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Trump Administration Faces Lawsuit Over White House Ban; Trump Meets with Mamdani. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired September 21, 2026 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST AND POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: All right, thanks so much to my panel. Really appreciate all of you for being here. Thanks to all of you at home for joining us as well. Don't forget, you can now stream "The Arena" live. Catch up whenever you want. It's all in the CNN app. Just scan the Q.R. code below. You can also catch up by listening to our podcast. You can follow us on X and Instagram. We are @thearenacnn. Don't go anywhere. "The Lead" anchored by Pamela Brown starts right now.
PAMELA BROWN, CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: A big day for President Trump, but fewer cameras there to see it. "The Lead" starts right now. Consequences of pushing the press away. The Trump administration is facing a new lawsuit after the president banned CNN and other media outlets from the White House. Ahead, the show of support from other outlets that still have access as the judge now weighs how far this First Amendment fight will go.
And breaking news, travel chaos. No flights in or out at some of the busiest airports in the country. How a construction mishap is to blame.
Plus, a stunning moment in Texas. The Venezuelan man shot by ICE calling into a news conference from custody. What he told his wife about his condition and the bullet still lodged in his back.
Welcome to "The Lead." I'm Pamela Brown, in for Jake Tapper, and we start in our "Politics Lead." And breaking this hour, President Trump is meeting with New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani. That is happening at the mayor's residence, Gracie Mansion. Mayor Mamdani is due to address the press when that meeting is over and, of course, we'll bring that to you when it happens.
Trump is in New York ahead of tomorrow's major speech at the United Nations General Assembly amid fears of widening global wars. And today, 43 days away from the midterm elections, Trump finds himself wading into the political deep end without the press pool. CNN was scheduled to have White House T.V. pool duty and travel with the president to New York today, but the White House revoked CNN's pool access after previously banning CNN, MS NOW, and Politico from the White House on Friday. The other major networks stood in solidarity, declining to replace CNN as today's pool crew.
Now, CNN, MS NOW, and Politico have filed a critical First Amendment lawsuit to restore White House access. A hearing in this case is set for Wednesday. President Trump reacting to this on Truth Social today, posting -- quote -- "They have drawn a great judge, for them, a man who ruled in favor of Jim Acosta, who now seems to have disappeared from the planet. The judge's name is Tim Kelly, and he was, sadly, appointed by Trump. In other words, almost without question and, as usual, we'll go for appeal."
We're going to get to all of these with our panel, Republican strategist Shermichael Singleton, New York Times journalist Lulu Garcia-Navarro, and former Trump White House communications director, Alyssa Farah Griffin. Shermichael, I want to just start with you on where we are right now. I mean, President Trump is staring down deepening global crises ahead of the midterms along with a dismal approval rating while also picking this First Amendment fight with the press. What exactly is going on here? What's his strategy?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: You know, when I look at this, I actually would prefer for the president to have the media to his avail. I mean, I would look at it a bit differently, Pamela. I think the president is at his strongest when he's going back and forth with members of the press. His base loves it. It gives him an opportunity to talk about his agenda. There are things that the president should be focused on going into midterms. Lulu here obviously disagrees. That's OK.
BROWN: That look she just did.
SINGLETON: I saw her look.
(LAUGHTER)
That's OK. I'm speaking as a strategist, not as a member of the press, which I am not. That said, however, there are things that the president can be focused on. He can talk about the fact that immigration has improved. He can, in fact, talk about no tax on tips. He can talk about the Trump accounts, giving Americans the opportunity to annually put money in accounts to afford for their children to go to college in 18 years or have money to put down payment for a home.
These are the messaging and talking points that I would love to see the president focused on, and having that back and forth with members of the press gives him that opportunity to deliver that message to the American people.
BROWN: So, Lulu, I want you to weigh in, but let's first listen to how J.D. Vance is defending this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: He's not banning media outlets. What he's doing is saying, we're not going to give you special access to the White House if you engage in what is effectively propaganda. We have to remember, those three outlets account, about 92 percent of the stories that they have on the president of the United States, on the administration, are negative. That's not representative of the American people. It's not representative of public opinion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Just to be clear, the White House perception of negative is obviously not the same as inaccurate or false. What do you think about how he's framing this and where do you see this headed?
[17:05:00]
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, JOURNALIST FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES, PODCAST HOST: I mean, he's putting lipstick on a pig, right? Because this is a First Amendment issue. It's very clearly a First Amendment issue. This is viewpoint discrimination. They're targeting specific outlets and saying, we don't like your coverage and, therefore, we don't think that you should have access to it.
And who loses here are the American people because what are we doing when we go and sit in front of the president of the United States to ask questions? We are asking questions in the people's name, right? We are there at the pleasure not of the president, but of the public. And so, when he does this, what he does is actually, as you rightly point out, damage himself, but he also damages the voter. This is actually trying to, you know, constrict information into the public square.
And also, I just -- I covered so many countries around the world that are, you know, under authoritarian rule, that don't have vibrant democracies. And the thing that I would always say is that America, no matter what its faults, has this incredible press and stands up for press freedom. And this is a very dark day, indeed, that I never thought I'd see where I had to go on social media and say, I stand with a free press.
BROWN: And I think what you said is so important. It's not that we're indignant because we're part of the press, right? It's because as part of the press, you serve the people. That's the core job or the vehicle.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think it's the thing that you can't say enough.
BROWN: Yes.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: You cannot say it enough, that, you know, we are there to publicize what the president is saying, good, bad. You know, if he wants to get his message across about the good things that he's doing, you know, especially as part of the pool, the pool is there to literally record every bit of what the president says. That's their duty. That's their job.
And also, these organizations pay for that, right? I mean, it's only a small press pool because there's not that many organizations that can actually finance --
BROWN: Yes. GARCIA-NAVARRO: -- what it costs to travel with the president to every place that he goes.
BROWN: And just a reminder, CNN was supposed to do the poll, which means travel with the president, cover him, and that did not happen today. Obviously, because of the ban.
And so, Alyssa, to bring you in on this conversation, a source told CNN Trump aide Natalie Harp showed President Trump apparently clips before he banned CNN, MS NOW, and Politico from the White House. These clips apparently were negative in nature. Does that track with what you know about Trump?
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: Yes. Listen, this is something he tried in the first term when I was in the White House. We all remember when he yanked then-CNN anchor Jim Acosta's credentials. I remember when I was White House communications director, he at one point wanted to target Kaitlan Collins and have her moved out of her seat in the front of the press briefing room. We were able to resolve it.
But this is something that he goes with. When he feels like his coverage is bad, he thinks of the James Brady briefing room as part of the White House. So, he thinks that he controls it and he should control access. In the past, he has had press staffers around him who convinced him it's not a good idea.
And what I would say is this is outrageous, but it's also an incredible self-own by the president. Donald Trump exists with T.V. Like Donald Trump with no T.V. is like a beach with no sand. He needs it to thrive. He needs it to get his message out. He needs it to get what he is doing covered.
And this is a consequential week. He's at the United Nations General Assembly later this week. There are multiple conflicts going on around the world. He's meeting with Mayor Mamdani as we speak. These are things that he wants to have publicized for the public, but also the public deserves to know about. And because he kind of took his ball and went home and said that he doesn't want these people covering the White House, we're left without any live stream footage of it.
BROWN: Do you think that this move is authoritarian in nature?
GRIFFIN: It's a step toward it. That's my thing with President Trump, is he likes to go up to the line. He thinks that presidents should have a very expansive view of the presidency and the executive branch. That said, he does still take a lot of questions from press day in and day out.
And what I would encourage him and advisors around him is more access, not less. Let him have his back and forth. Let him get his, you know, little swipes in at the reporters, but have them there to tell the story. The fourth estate exists to inform the public. It is critical to our democracy and it serves no one when there's this sort of blackness around the president. We just have blackout around the president. We don't even know what he's doing or saying. BROWN: Tomorrow, we do know he's going to be at the U.N. General Assembly. He's going to have that big speech that will be covered. He has a lot to tackle in this speech. What do you want to hear from him, especially when it comes to what's happening in the Middle East and how it's impacting Americans at home with these higher gas prices?
SINGLETON: You know, Pamela, it's not even just the Middle East. We haven't talked about this a lot in mainstream politics, but I'm also looking at Russia and China. There's some reporting from some international outlets that Vladimir Putin is considering testing NATO. I would love to know if the president is talking with our allies about this.
There's also some reporting that China may be looking at potentially doing something against Taiwan. Are we prepared for that? Are we ready to act? We know that our munition capabilities are extremely shortened as a result of this conflict with Iran, so gas prices are certainly an issue.
[17:10:01]
But God forbid, in the next two years, let's say Vladimir Putin does decide to go further and cross that line, are we ready to do what's necessary? Lulu, you know this. You've been in that part of the world. Are we even in the predicament with the capabilities to thwart such a military strike and move from the Russians? And then you merge that with the Chinese simultaneously.
And so, I do want to hear about gas prices, but I think we're at the precipice of something incredibly dangerous here for the western order, and I want to see the United States lead that front with our allies. That's what I want to hear about.
BROWN: Do you expect him to do that, Lulu?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: No. You know, often, President Trump fumbles these very important opportunities because what he likes is to sort of bully the international community. And he has never been a fan of the United Nations, and there are legitimate reasons for that. He did fix the escalator this year.
BROWN: Yes. There we go.
(LAUGHTER)
GARCIA-NAVARRO: But, you know, I do think there is a concern that the winds of war are breathing down our necks. If you look at America from the outside, it looks like a country that is divided, it looks like a country that is distracted, it looks like a country that might not be prepared for something terrible to happen.
SINGLETON: Yes.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: And that is often when enemies choose to strike.
SINGLETON: Or Xi Jinping said, a country that's in decline. He said that with President Trump sitting right next to him. That should worry us.
BROWN: Well, the question is, what should be the message from Trump when he meets with Xi Jinping later this week for the state dinner at the White House?
All right, everyone, stand by as we wait for Mayor Mamdani to address the news media. And up next, the latest on that ground stop impacting multiple major airports in the northeast. Plus, the Venezuelan man shot in the back by ICE calling his wife from custody just hours ago. We'll show you that moment. And then later, the suggestion today from Vice President J.D. Vance to help ease gas prices. Could it work?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: All right, New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani is speaking after his meeting with President Trump. You see the two men together. Let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAYOR ZOHRAN MAMDANI, NEW YORK CITY, NEW YORK: This afternoon, President Trump and I met at Gracie Mansion to discuss the city we both are so fortunate to serve, New York City. Each time the president and I speak, it is about the same topics, how to improve the lives of New Yorkers and how to use the power of government to take on the cost of living crisis, to grow our economy, and to build a better, stronger New York.
Each day, millions of New Yorkers struggle to get by in a city where a decent life costs too much, where a future of possibility and prosperity feels forever just one paycheck out of reach, where dignity is not accorded to all, but only afforded by some.
[17:14:57]
I have said time and again that I will work with anyone, no matter what party they belong to, no matter how much we may disagree on other topics, whoever has the power and the will to lift that weight off New Yorkers' backs at a time where hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers are asking the questions of how they can afford this city. I appreciate the conversation the president and I have had on the subject of how we can make it easier to afford life in this great city that we call our home.
With that, we will take questions just before -- president, if you want to add any remarks.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Sure. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. I've been at Gracie Mansion. We were discussing quite a few times over the years a lot. And it sorts of feels like a home. And it's a special place, a very special, a beautiful place when you go inside. And I've seen it with numerous different mayors. And I said some great ones and some not so great ones. So, hopefully, you're going to be a great one. I'll be able to say you're going to be a great one and you're off to a start. So, I just want to thank the mayor for the invitation. I'm in New York to do the United Nations tomorrow. I have a lot of meetings right now. Today, very important meetings with heads of different countries. But this is like a little bit of old home week for me because so many things -- we've done so many things from the beautiful home or house or building standing right behind me. And if you have any questions, we'd love to take them. Thank you.
UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. We're going to start with N.J. Burkett. Please, wait for the microphone. Thank you.
N.J. BURKETT, BROADCAST JOURNALIST: Thank you. Mr. President, Mr. Mayor, there aren't too many Democrats who would roll out the red carpet for Donald Trump. You did that today. What tangible results, achievements could you point to from your relationship with the president?
MAMDANI: You know, one of the focuses of the conversation the president and I have been having is about the possibility of building more housing here in New York City. We've spoken about Sunnyside Yard. And it's a real pleasure that just today, we've agreed to set up a new level of that conversation between our housing and operations team at City Hall and the White House team because what we're speaking about is 12,000 homes, 30,000 jobs, the prospect of an entire new neighborhood in a city where housing is the number one cost.
I appreciate the president, his interest in this. And we also know the president, not just as the leader of the country, but also as someone who has built quite a lot of housing here in our city. I don't know, Mr. President, you want to add anything?
TRUMP: Well, I can tell you that Sunnyside is a big job. I've been watching that for 35 years. Everybody has wanted to do something with Sunnyside Yard. Well, we met at the White House a couple of times, but we met at the White House. The mayor brought that up, the possibility of doing Sunnyside Yard. It's a very -- I would say that was a very federal-oriented job. You're going to need a lot of federal approvals and probably some federal money to do it. But it's always been a great location. I owned a building in Sunnyside. It was a great building. I know it very well. So, when he mentioned Sunnyside Yard, they've been talking about developing that for 50 years. So, maybe they have a shot at doing it.
UNKNOWN: Thank you. Next, we'll go to Jared (ph) in the first row. Please, wait for the microphone.
JARED (ph): Mr. Mayor, Mr. President, this is the first time that a sitting president has visited Gracie Mansion in decades. Mr. President, on the way here, you posted that this is one of your favorite places in the world. Why is that? And Mr. Mayor, what did you show the president? What did you want to see?
TRUMP: Well, I can say, from my standpoint, I love New York, and this represents New York. This is where the mayor lived and continues to live. And we were discussing it a long time ago. When you first got elected, I said, well, you're going to move because you were maybe having some doubts about moving in because it is a little bit on the luxurious side. And I said, when you're the mayor, you have to live there. So -- and he has done that. And it was very nice inside, beautifully kept. And -- but it's a very, very representative place of New York, very important place.
MAMDANI: We appreciate the president's commitment to the city. And today, you know, the president shared many of his memories of having been to Gracie Mansion before, having been out here as well on the lawn. And we appreciated the conversation of how we can work together to deliver a lower cost of living for New Yorkers.
UNKNOWN: Thank you. We'll go to Gloria next.
GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you. So, Mr. President, you spoke about Sunnyside Yard. Are you committing to supporting that project? And it sounds like you also talked about affordability. You have dismissed that in the past, but that is one of Mayor Mamdani's key agenda items. So, did you talk about affordability and did you -- is there anything you can do for affordability for New Yorkers?
[17:19:59]
TRUMP: Well, I know a lot about affordability because I did that housing. I did many, many low-income and moderate-income buildings over the years, and had great success with it. We have -- really, it was very important. I would think that Sunnyside would have to have a component, at least a pretty substantial component of exactly that. So, yes, we discussed that. If you do Sunnyside, I think you're going to have to have that kind of a component.
UNKNOWN: Thank you. We're going to go to Laura (ph), and this will be the last question for the president.
LAURA (ph): Thank you. Mayor, to you first. What is your response to President Trump banning outlets from the White House grounds? Did you challenge him at all about this in your meeting with him? Historians and legal scholars have called it textbook authoritarianism. And Mr. President, are you banning outlets like MSNBC, CNN, and Politico in order to distract from the Iran war and high gas prices?
MAMDANI: You know, I told the president that we're going to have all of the members of the press here on the lawn. And that is something that I believe in, is everyone, no matter the opinion or the critique that we engage. Mr. President?
TRUMP: It's interesting because they said they were going to boycott me, but they never boycott me. So, I wasn't very worried about that. Look at all that press. But no, I'm not. I'm only doing it because I think the press also has an obligation.
And, you know, I won in a landslide. I won the election in a landslide. I've done great things. I've done a lot of great things. I've settled eight wars.
And we have the best economic numbers for the country in the history of our country. We have $21 trillion pouring in. The biggest number ever. Any country was three. Nobody has ever done what we've done.
I never get anything positive. It's always negative, even having to do with the war. We've done so well. We have told, look, they're not going to have a nuclear weapon. Let me just put it that way.
And they're not doing well. They're not doing well. In fact, I have meetings on it today. They're doing very poorly. You would think that an outlet would write at least reasonably well, but never.
If you look at CNN, it's fake news. If you look at MS NOW, I don't even know what MS NOW is. I guess it's the MSNBC, what it used to be, or MSDNC, as some people call it. That's Democrat National Committee. But it's just biased news.
And I think that these outlets have an obligation to be fair. And if they're fake news, I really think I have an obligation not to allow them into another very special house. This is a special house, Gracie Mansion. Well, the White House is the most special of all houses, I have to say, and I don't even think the mayor would argue with that.
And I think I have an obligation not to let fake news. They're very bad for the country, very bad for national security. So, I have that obligation. So, we'll see how it works out.
UNKNOWN: Thank you. That's all the time the president has. Thank you all so much. The mayor will stay to take a few questions.
UNKNOWN: A lot of New Yorkers are here on protected status, and it has been removed.
TRUMP: Well, the mayor feels very strongly about it, I can tell you. He did bring it up, but he feels very, very strongly about it.
UNKNOWN: How do you feel --
TRUMP: I feel strongly about a lot of things. I feel strongly about taking care of people. And that's what we do. We're doing a good job of it.
MAMDANI: Thank you so much.
UNKNOWN: Thank you so much.
MAMDANI: Thank you. Appreciate it.
UNKNOWN: All right, the mayor will have time for a few more questions. We can go to New York 1. Beth Kelly Manna (ph) over here.
BETH KELLY MANNA (ph): Hi. Right over here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: All right, so, we just heard from President Trump and Mayor Mamdani. Mayor Mamdani continues to take questions, as you see. We're monitoring it right now. And our panel is back with us, Republican strategist Shermichael Singleton, New York Times journalist Lulu Garcia- Navarro, and former Trump White House communications director, Alyssa Farah Griffin.
Lulu, what do you make of what you just heard from the mayor and the president there, especially concerning the press ban involving CNN, MS NOW, and Politico?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Everything about this is fascinating. You're watching it right now. There is Donald Trump sitting behind Mayor Mamdani, right? Seeming deferential in a way that he is never deferential. He spoke incredibly and almost in a conciliatory way.
And this -- by the way, they have a good relationship when they see each other face to face. Donald Trump has said terrible things about Mayor Mamdani on social media and when Mayor Mamdani is not there, but when they're in the same room together, there is some kind of chemistry there, and it's fascinating to watch.
BROWN: Yes.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: And also, Mayor Mamdani is also very correct. You know, he's very solicitous. These are two people that couldn't have more different politics. And so, let me just celebrate the vision of two very different people, two very powerful people, you know, sitting together.
I'll also say Donald Trump was supposed to leave. And, of course, if there's a microphone and a camera, it's very rare that he would.
BROWN: All right. Let's listen back in.
[17:25:00]
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNKNOWN: Thank you so much. That's all the time we have. Thank you all.
BROWN: So, we could -- you know, we see the two men together. As you point out, they walked out initially before they went to the podium. They were very chummy with each other. How do you think the mayor is sort of walking this fine line, particularly when it comes to the press ban?
SINGLETON: Yes. Look, I think the mayor answered well. I mean, look, he's a leader among Democrats. And I think Donald Trump views him as an outsider who was absolutely disruptive to the traditional democratic establishment, the same way Donald Trump was disruptive to the republican establishment. Donald Trump transformed the Republican Party, whether you agree with it or not.
And I would argue, in many ways, Mayor Mamdani has changed the Democratic Party. I mean, you look at the slew of DSA candidates who are winning across the country or who are winning nominations. You have a DSA candidate for mayor who won, who will soon come into power.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: But it's also that he's popular. I think the thing with Donald Trump is like game loves games.
BROWN: He likes -- he likes winners.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: He likes winners.
SINGLETON: No. I'm sure -- I agree with that. But I'm making a bigger point in that you have these two outsiders who've transformed American politics in terms of two major political parties. And I think there is something about that that the president absolutely respects.
And look, the republican establishment did not want Donald Trump. Remember that. The democratic establishment, Hakeem Jeffries is going to have to wrestle with this this faction of DSA members once he assumes the position of speaker of the House, which I believe he will.
And so, I think -- I think he looks at this, Pamela. He looks at Mayor Mamdani. And to your point, Lulu, he sees a winner. And one thing we know, the president loves a winner. And Mayor Mamdani, whether you agree with his politics or not, this guy is a winner. His approval ratings appear to be through the roof in New York. And who would have expected that several months ago? I know I certainly didn't.
BROWN: Listen, what's in it for Trump, in your view, to have this meeting with Mayor Mamdani?
GRIFFIN: It's so fascinating. I echo Lulu, by the way. I think that the president also thinks that Mayor Mamdani looks like he's out of central casting. He looks the part. He's tall. He's commanding. He has a presence. And that's something Trump cares about in politicians.
But I think for him, he's forever a New Yorker. And I think it's showing that he cares about the city. He's invested in it. I would say there's a lot more upside for the mayor than there is for the president. Mayor Mamdani is also extremely polarizing on the right. So, I think appearing too warm, too cordial with him isn't really a win for the president, but I think it's a huge win for Mayor Mamdani.
And I would just point out that some of the left flank in the DSA crowd that love him really, really excoriated Hakeem Jeffries for meeting with President Trump. So, I would just point out that it is always helpful and it is always in the interest of constituents when leaders are able to talk to each other and to try to have collaborative, you know, ideas in the small areas that they can agree.
BROWN: Yes. He was asked about that, and he said, look, we both care about New York and want to work together to do what's best for New Yorkers. But how do you think his supporters will take this, the Mamdanis?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Well, I think -- I mean, the thing that Mamdani always does very well is, first of all, look at his face. His face is always completely neutral. I've interviewed Mayor Mamdani. He actually has a very kind of expressive manner about him, but not there. He is completely stone-faced.
The other thing that he is always very careful to do whenever he meets with President Trump is to say what he is meeting with him for, that this isn't just like a random meeting, that there is an ask, that he is doing it in the service of New Yorkers. And so, he's hoping that that will inoculate him from actually being seen with the president. And, as you know, there's probably no inoculation on the left against that. People are going to be angry. But Mayor Mamdani rides high. I mean, I don't know that there's anyone more popular than Obama on the left right now.
SINGLETON: If I could just add quickly to Lulu's point, the mayor is proving that he can govern. That's simply it. People want results. And so, they may not like him standing next to the president, to Lulu's point but, as she said, he talks about very specific, tangible things to say. I'm meeting with the president to deliver X, Y and Z for the residents of New York City. That is my job. I may not like the person I'm standing next to, I may not agree with him philosophically, but if that means I can get a win for my city, I'm going to get a win. And I think most New Yorkers, Lulu, correct me if I'm wrong, would applaud that.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think probably not. I mean, I don't want to speak for all New Yorkers, but I do think he's very good, Mayor Mamdani, at doing things and explaining why he's doing them.
BROWN: Yes, he has always been seen as an effective messenger.
SINGLETON: Yes.
BROWN: All right, thank you all. We appreciate it. And we're also following this stunning moment in Texas. A Venezuelan man shot by ICE calling into a news conference from custody. What he told his wife about his condition and the bullet that is still lodged in his back.
[17:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Breaking news in the National Lead, during a dramatic news conference this afternoon, we heard from the man who was shot by an ICE agent yesterday in Austin, Texas. The man, a DoorDash diver from Venezuela, was taken into federal custody, pending removal from the country. As CNN's Ed Lavandera reports, he still has a bullet in his body.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATE LINCOLN-GOLDFINCH, PEREZ FAMILY ATTORNEY: Tenemos Wilbur on the telephone.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A dramatic phone call in the middle of a news conference with activists protesting the ICE officer's shooting of a Venezuelan food delivery driver Sunday in Austin. Wilbur Garces Perez called from the South Texas detention facility, where he's being held in immigration custody, and took questions from journalists.
[17:35:05] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am not doing well due to the gunshot wound, and I have not received the medical attention that I require.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): This video has sparked a wave of anger across the city of Austin. The images capture an ICE officer shooting and wounding Garces-Perez from Venezuela, who was working as a DoorDash driver. The video shows 28-year-old Garces Perez with a gunshot wound in his back. He was then handcuffed after being pulled out of his car. His lawyer says ICE took Garces Perez into custody from the hospital with the bullet still in his body just hours after the shooting.
LINCOLN-GOLDFINCH: He's struggling.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Kate Lincoln-Goldfinch is an immigration attorney representing Garces Perez's family.
LINCOLN-GOLDFINCH: When he was discharged from the hospital at 4 o'clock yesterday, he had a bullet lodged in his back, and they told him they wouldn't remove the bullet. They sent him to ICE with the bullet in his back, without paying medication, and he slept overnight in a processing center without a bed.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): She said she spoke with the Venezuelan immigrant by phone Monday morning. She says Garces Perez told her an unmarked black truck rammed his vehicle twice. A source familiar with the incident tells CNN, ICE officers were conducting targeted immigration enforcement operations Sunday based on license plate checks. Agents had a brief exchange with Garces Perez, who had a deportation order before he fled the scene in his car.
The shooting took place shortly afterward. Video of the scene shows two apparent bullet holes in the rear passenger window of the Venezuelan man's car and damage to the passenger door. Garces Perez's attorney says he remains in ICE custody and has been interrogated by the agency.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An SUV rode next to him and tried to hit him. He thought it was like an aggressive driver. Turns out it was not. He asked the ICE officer if he could please at least pull over so that they could detain him. They said no, and they sideswiped him basically. He did a U-turn to try and find a spot to park so that he could go with them, and they basically ran into him and then shot him.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Protests erupted within hours of the Austin shooting.
LIMON VERDE, AUSTIN RESIDENT: There's lots of people that are hurt. There is pain in their hearts. There is pain whenever they leave their home knowing that they won't come back.
REP. GREG CASAR (D-TX): We will all be more safe when ICE gets the hell out of Austin, Texas. (END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA: And, Pamela, the Department of Homeland Security says that Wilbur Garcia -- Garces Perez is in stable condition, but his family is still very much worried about his physical condition. He was asked during that press conference today why the bullet wasn't removed. He said that he asked the doctor if they were going to remove the bullet. The doctor -- he says the doctor told him that it was too close to his spine and that ICE agents were eager to get him out of the hospital as quickly as possible, and he believes that that's why that procedure was not done.
His lawyers say that they are right now in the process of trying to ensure that he is not deported before the investigation into this shooting is complete. Pamela?
BROWN: Ed Lavandera, thank you so much.
And joining us now is Texas Democratic Congressman Greg Casar, whose district includes Austin. You saw him there in Ed's piece. Thanks for coming on, Congressman. So, you have bystander videos in the wake of this shooting seeming to indicate ICE agents did little to treat the man after he was shot.
When Wilbur Garces Perez called him to the news conference, he said he still has a bullet in his back and he's in pain. What more do you know, and what are your biggest concerns right now?
I think we're having some issue with audio. It worked before.
CASAR: Oh, sorry.
BROWN: Before the break. Oh, OK, we can hear you now. All right, great. There you go. Go ahead.
CASAR: What we've heard from Wilbur's family and then heard from Wilbur directly is that we have someone who was a DoorDash delivery driver just trying to do his job. He was slammed by an unmarked vehicle, shot by ICE agents in the back, denied basic medical care, and then taken to a detention center in the Texas desert. And now they want to deport him before he ever gets the chance to testify about what happened.
I don't care if you're a Democrat or Republican or Independent. We don't think in this country that the government should be allowed to shoot you and then try to cover it up. Mr. Garces Perez needs to go see a doctor. He should not be deported. He should be released. And ICE needs to get out of Austin so they can stop this kind of terror in our community.
BROWN: Do you know if the ICE agents involved were wearing body cameras?
[17:39:57]
CASAR: We do not know if the ICE agents were wearing body cameras, but I am demanding three basic things, transparency, accountability and safety. For transparency, the dash cam footage should be released immediately. Any body cam footage from any of those multiple ICE agents should be immediately released.
And local law enforcement is treating this as a criminal investigation. Those witnesses, including the ICE officer that shot Wilbur, need to cooperate with the investigation. They should not be allowed to flee the state as fugitives.
Second, there needs to be accountability. Any and all wrongdoing should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And when Democrats win back the House in November, we should subpoena not just the ICE officials at the bottom rungs, but up to the very top who have shot multiple U.S. citizens.
ICE, who has lied constantly, they called Renee Good a terrorist. Turns out she was just a mom, U.S. citizen who was killed. And in this case, a DoorDash driver who was shot in the back of the neck.
And then third, we need safety. ICE says that they're trying to make people safe. But since their surge in Austin, they've arrested a five- year-old just a couple miles from where I'm sitting right now. They've raided construction sites. And now they've shot a DoorDash delivery driver in the back of the neck and denied him medical care. He's sitting in a detention center right now with that bullet still in him with no pain medication, and he's bleeding.
BROWN: Congressman, I want you to respond to what the Department of Homeland Security is saying about this. This is a statement that it posted on X saying, "An illegal alien from Venezuela who illegally entered our country under the Biden administration and had a final order of removal." Final order of removal during a law enforcement operation today in Austin, Texas. So just talk about how the officer was involved in this shooting. How do you respond to its description of this?
CASAR: When the first words out of DHS's mouth is not that we need to make sure he's in stable condition, that we should take care of this person that ICE shot, you need to be suspicious. And remember that ICE lied about Renee Good, lied about Alex Pretti, lied about Lorenzo Araujo, all people that were shot and killed.
And in this case, what we heard directly from Wilbur and his attorneys is that he entered lawfully using the CBP One app under the Biden administration. And what we also heard from his attorneys is that some mix ups about his address had him miss a court date. I don't know about you, but whether you are immigrant native born, I think that you shouldn't be shot in the back of the neck by someone in an unmarked vehicle.
And then suddenly be taken out of the hospital and taken to a prison just because there might have been a mix up about court dates. We need a full, transparent investigation about what happened here. And the fact that DHS pulled Mr. Garces Perez out of a hospital four hours after he was shot. And now they're talking about trying to remove him probably tells people watching at home everything you need to know. They are trying to cover this up and we cannot let that happen.
BROWN: All right. Texas Democratic Congressman Greg Casar, thank you. We'll continue to monitor this story and see what happens next. Thanks so much.
CASAR: Appreciate you for covering this, Pam.
[17:43:17]
BROWN: Of course. What sources tell CNN about faulty data from artificial intelligence that they say almost started a war. I'll speak with a top Democrat now calling for an investigation.
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BROWN: And now to our series, A.I.: Friend or Foe? New fallout from the bombshell exclusive CNN report that the U.S. military had planes in the air and was ready to take action against China based off of a false A.I.-generated report. Sources tell CNN the bogus A.I. report, "almost started a war." In a letter to Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and Director of National Intelligence Jay Clayton, three top Democratic senators are calling on government watchdogs to probe the incident and accuse the administration of prioritizing A.I. adoption over competence.
Joining us now is Senator Jack Reed, the top Democrat on the Armed Services Committee and one of the co-authors of the letter. Senator, have you learned anything more about how close the U.S. was to launching an attack against this Chinese ship?
SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): No, we have not been told anything in addition. In fact, the Department of Defense has basically stonewalled the Congress repeatedly over many, many months. We're still waiting for detailed information and conclusions about the strike in Iran on the school in Minab, Iran. They refused to do that.
This is an administration that will not divulge information or accept responsibility. And with A.I., we have to have a sense of what is one of the problems and what are possible ways to minimize collateral damage and damage to civilians. That's why we've called Senator Warner, Senator Coons and I for a investigation by the inspector general, not interfered with by the administration into all the details, make that available to Congress quickly. And then we can start drawing conclusions about legislative provisions that we should include to protect everyone with the use of A.I.
BROWN: So you say you're getting very little information from the Pentagon right now. But what is your assessment of how much the Pentagon and the administration's national security team is relying on A.I. for critical decision making right now?
REED: Well, I think they're relying a great deal on A.I. It is a powerful tool, but I don't think they've taken the sensible precautions to insulate A.I. use from actual targeting or at least to control the A.I. use. And as a result, you've had incidents like the strike on the school in Iran and potentially the strike on the ship that they thought was bearing nuclear materials. So we have to do and they have to do a much better job of identifying those areas in which there has to be a human in the kill chain, if you will.
And also, how do we go ahead and develop and deploy this powerful tool in a way that ensures that we do not cause unanticipated incidents like the sinking of a Chinese ship, for example?
BROWN: Your GOP colleague, Senator Thom Tillis, is calling for President Trump to replace Secretary Hegseth. Do you get the sense that there is a growing sentiment or frustration with Hegseth from Republicans?
REED: I do, and it's properly directed. I opposed the secretary's confirmation from the very beginning. I indicated I felt he did not have the both the experience and temperament to effectively lead the Department of Defense. And he's demonstrated --. So I think the Republicans are beginning to get the same impression. Indeed, I think they had that impression, but they felt they had to be supportive of the president's choice, which was a mistake.
BROWN: Senator Jack Reed, thank you for your time.
REED: Thank you.
BROWN: In the Money Lead, gas prices largely holding today, but it's been a turbulent week. The national average is $4.48. That's up 16 cents in the last seven days. And the rising price of diesel is even more drastic. Its national average is at a record $6.51. That is a 23 percent spike in the last week. And here is why you should care about that. Diesel is what fuels tractor trailers and freight trades and construction vehicles and large farming combines that harvest that your food. If they pay more, that means you'll eventually pay more.
[17:50:10]
My next guest is seeing firsthand how these prices are affecting America's farmers. Democratic Congresswoman Kristen McDonald Rivet of Michigan joins us now. She is on the Agriculture Committee. Congresswoman, thanks for coming on. So today, gas prices in Michigan are more than 40 cents higher than the national average. What are you hearing right now from farmers in your state about how they're shouldering these costs?
REP. KRISTEN MCDONALD RIVET (D-MI): You know, our Ag economy here in Michigan is in a free fall. Farmers will tell you that. I saw a couple of stations in the northern part of my district today where diesel was $7.30 a gallon. So this is not just combines, but it's tractors. It's everything that makes a farm run. It's, frankly, a lot of the pickups that most of the people here in my district drive, and it is breaking their backs.
You know, when we saw the unnecessary trade wars, the spiraling tariffs in the last year, my farmers in my district lost millions and millions of dollars. So going into this season, they really needed a good season in order to hold their farms. And thus, really, this unnecessary war that is jacking up the cost of diesel could be the final straw for many of them. It's really most people who work with their hands drive a diesel truck.
And if you really want to know how working people across America are doing, you look at the price of diesel. They're not doing well.
BROWN: And, of course, if the price of diesel is going up, everything is transporting for the most part. Everything goes up, right? Diesel prices in particular have doubled since last year for farmers. My colleague, Fredricka Whitfield, spoke with the founder of the National Black Farmers Association yesterday, and he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOYD, JR., FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT, NATL. BLACK FARMERS ASSOCIATION: This is a national farm crisis. That cost is going to be passed on to the American people who are going to pay higher prices for products in their local grocery stores. But the problem is farmers don't have the extra money to cover this cost, and the administration hasn't done anything to assist the farmers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Do you believe your fellow Democrats are doing enough to sound the alarm?
RIVET: You know, we're doing everything that we can. I think that you saw Democrats on committee raising this issue over and over and over again about how hard it is for farming. And we get this continual kind of pushback that, you know, the farm economy is fine. Well, talk to a farmer. Talk to a sugar beet farmer or a bean farmer in the middle of Michigan, and they'll tell you things are not fine.
You know, in my district, 70 percent of our jobs pay less than $60,000 a year. So when you think about what take-home pay looks like on 60 grand a year, and all of these escalating prices, you know, I am on a daily basis talking to people, families who use the word drowning. They're economically drowning because they can't afford to fill things in their grocery baskets. They are very worried about the cost of their utilities. They're -- many of them are losing their health insurance.
There is this incredible frustration about the lack of attention that's being paid to it, the bailout for farmers, dollars that were going to help them whether these crises that have been caused by the administration have been very minimal, not even close to coming to be able to rescue some of the farms that are living on a razor's edge.
BROWN: I want to ask you then, given everything you just laid out about how Democrats are doing ahead of the midterms, right? There was an NBC News poll, and it showed the Democrats hold a five-point edge in the battle for control of Congress. That is not nearly as large as the 12-point advantage they enjoyed at this point before the 2018 election. Does it concern you at all the Democrats aren't pulling ahead even more in the polls at this point? What do you think? How do you see it?
RIVET: You know, we're 43 days out from the election, and there is a lot of the fight left to be had. But the piece that I think is being ignored is that most people, and I can see them in my district, but I think you see this all over the country, are just flat-out frustrated with government in general.
So the President's approval ratings are -- have been underwater for a very long time. There is these giant pendulums that happen in politics as people search for somebody they trust, someone who's practical, someone who cares about solving the day-to-day problems that so many people have. And listen, I'm Midwest practical.
[17:54:57]
And what I know is that if we want people to trust our agenda, it has to make it easier to get health insurance. It has to make it easier to buy groceries to be able to have kids. But most of all, we have to do something about the corruption in Washington, because I think that the trust in government has been fundamentally broken. And we need to, the first thing that we need to do in the majority is pass a sweeping anti-corruption package and start to restore that faith that people have that elected officials, whether you're Democrat or Republican, care about how hard their lives are.
BROWN: All right, Democratic Congresswoman Kristen McDonald Rivet of Michigan, thank you so much.
RIVET: Thank you.
BROWN: Well, moments ago, President Trump with New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani, his brand-new comments on the press and banning CNN and other press outlets from the White House.
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