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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Hawks Confusion Sparks Embarrassing Moment For GOP Senator; Six Flags Shuts Down X2 Roller Coaster After CNN Investigation; Five Weeks Until Midterm Election Day; WSJ Reporter Evan Gershkovich Details His Time In Russian Prison; NHL On TNT Debuts Wednesday With Flyers Hosting Penguins. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired September 29, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, the Atlanta Hawks, the Iowa Hawkeyes, how confusion over the two led a Republican senator to jump to some really wrong conclusions and accuse former Special Counsel Jack Smith of perjury. I'm going to speak with the senator who was in the room for today's heated testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Plus, a major announcement from Six Flags amusement park, shutting down its famous X2 rollercoaster after a CNN investigation. New reaction from people who say they were directly affected, including one woman with a life-changing brain injury.

Also, exactly five weeks away from midterm Election Day and the fight to control Congress, the state that has become a money pit for Republicans, $166 million spent on campaign ads. Voters, we feel your pain.

And calling all Philly fans, you just got to see the special guest who joined me in the office and caused quite a commotion

The Lead tonight, a heated showdown between Senate Republicans and former Special Counsel Jack Smith. During today's Senate judiciary hearing, Republicans made their disdain for Special Counsel Smith clear as they accused Smith of targeting Republicans when he prosecuted President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): You make me want to throw up in my mouth.

SEN. ERIC SCHMITT (R-MO): You will go down as a total dirt bag.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Javert from Les Mis would look at you with astonishment.

Your conduct represents the most egregious abuse of power in the history of the Department of Justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Several Republicans also criticized Smith for secretly subpoenaing lawmakers' phone and other records. Smith testified that the non-disclosures were in order to protect against Trump's potential obstruction of justice efforts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK SMITH, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SPECIAL COUNSEL: Donald Trump, in our case, in the elections case, later suggested that a witness, General Mark Milley, should be put to death. He said, if you come after me, I'm coming after you. We had an absolute basis to seek protection of our investigation from that sort of obstruction.

Our securing these subpoenas and non-disclosure orders was consistent with the law. The toll records were --

CRUZ: It was explicitly contrary to federal statute. It was explicitly contrary to the Federal Constitution.

SEN. DARLINE GRAHAM (R-SC): Do you really believe that Lindsey was going to destroy evidence that was not even in his possession?

SMITH: No. I believe your brother was a patriotic public servant. He was not a target of our investigation, and, in fact, he likely would've been a witness in our case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: There was also this rather viral moment when Senator Eric Schmitt of Missouri put some questions to Mr. Smith. The Missouri Republican suggested that in February 2024, Smith went to an NBA game in Atlanta between the Golden State Warriors and the Atlanta Hawks so that he could secretly meet with Fani Willis, the district attorney for Fulton County, Georgia, who was also trying to prosecute President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SMITH: I definitely did not go to a Hawks game, I'm sure of that.

SCHMITT: Okay. Did you ever meet Nathan Wade or Fani Willis in your time as special counsel?

SMITH: No.

SCHMITT: What would you say if I had a series of text messages from your team that said you were in Atlanta at a Warrior-Hawks game on February 3rd, 2024, the day after Willis and Wade announced their affair?

I don't think you know that we have this stuff. So, I'll give you a second to process it so you don't, you know, perjure yourself.

SMITH: You just took it down really quick. If I could look at that again.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): We need a copy of the actual texts. Can you give the witness the courtesy of giving him a copy of that? SMITH: I recall going to a University of Maryland basketball game where Caitlin Clark was playing.

KLOBUCHAR: Could it then be that University of Iowa is the Hawkeyes? Could that be it, and maybe before we show this kind of thing?

SCHMITT: But it's not your time.

KLOBUCHAR: When you are calling a witness a dirt bag --

SCHMITT: I presented him with text messages about him wanting to meet with people that could have obviously been related to the prosecution that was coordinated with his office in Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Yikes. There was indeed a women's college basketball game in Maryland between the Iowa Hawkeyes and Maryland Terrapins on that date, February 3rd, 2024. The Hawkeyes won, for what it's worth.

Now to someone who was in the room for today's hearing, I want to bring in Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, who sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Senator, what was your takeaway from former Special Counsel Jack Smith's testimony today?

[18:05:01]

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): He was very direct, factual, low-key, as you could tell from those answers that you played. He was going through the facts, the evidence, the law that led him to indict Donald Trump for obstruction of justice and for inciting the riot on January 6th that caused more than 140 Capitol Police officers to be assaulted and almost the counting of the vote to be stopped, the peaceful of transition of power to be halted.

And on the other hand, as you also saw from some of the name-calling there, it was kind of a new low in demagoguery and incivility. Recalling some of the great moments in that very room, senators earning the respect and dignity that is accorded the United States Senate. This kind of hearing was very much in contrast.

And I will just say one more thing, Jake. That room was the place where we sought refuge on January 6th. There was a kind of supreme irony to this hearing because we were taken there, it was our undisclosed location, as we hustled, in fact ran to safety, hearing the shouts and seeing the weaponry, and then on T.V. all of the pictures which now are so familiar to Americans.

And so I really think that we have to recall what happened on January 6th, and the conclusion of those grand juries that Jack Smith impaneled, that Donald Trump was responsible, the person most responsible, that he incited the riot, that he foresaw the results, and then he exploited the results of that mob action. TAPPER: What was the deal with Senator Schmitt and the basketball game? Did he ever explain what happened? Was his staff mixing up text message that said Hawks and Hawkeyes? I can't really make sense of what happened.

BLUMENTHAL: He simply got it wrong, whether it was his staff or himself. The Hawkeyes and the Hawks, maybe it's an understandable confusion. But to imply that someone is guilty of perjury and calling him a dirt bag when the senator was the one confused, I think shows you if you're going to try a Perry Mason moment, you better have your facts straight.

I'm a former federal prosecutor, U.S. attorney for Connecticut, as well as state attorney general, and cross-examination depends on reliable facts. But I will say that this kind of incivility is, I think, repugnant to the American people, and they ought to be focused on what happened on January 6th, the felonies that occurred, and the need to prevent it from happening again.

TAPPER: Several Republicans blasted Smith for secretly subpoenaing lawmakers' phone records during his investigation into Trump. The phone companies were not able to notify lawmakers due to judicial non- disclosure orders. And it wasn't the content of the conversation, but it was just about who called who.

Now there's a bipartisan bill from Republican Senator Mike Lee of Utah and Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware that would make it harder for the federal government to access someone's private electronic data. Would you support that bill?

BLUMENTHAL: I would support a bill that protects privacy. But let's be clear about what actually happened here. The subpoenas were to the phone company and to the National Archives and Records Administration for Donald Trump's records, not for Congressional information. The texts that were produced as a result involved Donald Trump. The phone records that were produced, and you're absolutely right, none of them concerned content. It was simply the fact of the call.

The texts, by the way, were from both Democrats and Republicans who were in communication with Trump during that period, June 4th to June 7th. And the phone calls were as a result of either contacts, calls made by the members of Congress to Donald Trump or vice versa.

And, you know, as I said to some of my colleagues, if you phone a mob boss and the mob boss records are subpoenaed, your name is going to show up. And that's what happened here.

TAPPER: After the hearing, Republican Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina argued that both Republican and Democratic administrations have weaponized the Justice Department. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Everybody wants to pick the one side that they don't happen to have that jersey on to indict them when if everybody's intellectually honest, every -- almost said a bad word -- every doggone one of them are equally guilty. They're silent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:10:00]

TAPPER: What's your response?

BLUMENTHAL: Well, there is no question that the Trump administration has weaponized the Department of Justice in a way that is unprecedented and unparalleled in American history. And by their own admission, the leaders of this Department of Justice say, in effect, they're Donald Trump's lawyers. They should be the people's lawyers.

Jack Smith was very clear. He was not told by anyone to investigate anything in particular. Obviously, he was investigating a crime. He found that a crime had been committed. He found beyond a reasonable doubt that the evidence and facts and law showed that Donald Trump committed serious crimes that imperiled our democracy. But it was never a political figure telling him what to do or politics that involved this investigation and prosecution.

TAPPER: Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

In Massachusetts today, a major shift in defense from Lindsay Clancy, that mother accused of deliberately killing her three children, what her attorney is now calling for, weeks after the case ended in a mistrial.

Plus, a lot more oil flowing through the Strait of Hormuz. Could that motivate Trump to end the war against Iran?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

TAPPER: In our World Lead, with considerable help from the United States Navy, Gulf oil producers are managing to get a lot more oil through the Strait of Hormuz. Marine data trackers say oil and petroleum product has averaged 13.1 million barrels per day. That's just under 80 percent of the 17.1 million barrels that travel through the strait every day before the war. Meanwhile, Washington and Tehran are signaling they could return to talks this week.

Joining us now, CNN National Security Analyst Alex Plitsas. Alex, the U.S. has successfully suppressed Iran's ability to disrupt shipping and is providing enough security to bring oil flows close to pre-war levels. What does this mean for Iran, and how long can the U.S. Navy be required to do this?

ALEX PLITSAS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So, the U.S. Navy could be required to do this for as long as this operation takes, but there is a wear and tear that comes with that. And we've seen some of the longest deployments in carrier history in the United States over the last couple of rotations. And so what that means on the back end is those carriers are going to be in dry dock for quite some time on repair.

So, the implications for the Navy will take place over the next several years where those carriers will be in sustained maintenance, which means they won't be available to go back out to sea. For the Iranians, that is the reason that they had their militias in Iraq attack the East-West pipeline about a week ago, in which the, the Saudi pipeline that moved a lot of oil across the desert to the port of Yanbu on the Red Sea out of commission. And then we saw the Houthis push through to the coast and potentially put the Bab el-Mandeb at risk.

Both of those were meant to counter these gains that the U.S. has made in moving oil out through the Arabian Gulf to about 80 percent of pre- war levels, as you've meant. Because part of Iran's four-point strategy is to increase the price of oil and gas and goods to try to put pressure on the United States.

So, not good for Iran, they're -- the blockade is on, their back is in the corner, and we've seen them lash out previously. So how much longer this lasts without Iran lashing out is yet to be seen.

TAPPER: What has Iran's strategy been as they continue to try to control as much of the strait as possible, and how much power do they still have?

PLITSAS: So, they certainly still have power left. I mean, because one of the things that they learned through this past conflict is they don't need to actually shut down the Strait of Hormuz with mines. They actually don't need a nuclear program to hold people at risk from a deterrence perspective. A few drones and a few missiles hitting ships is sufficient to keep most of the major shipping carriers from transiting the strait.

However, the U.S. has now learned that they're able to successfully help navigate and use smaller ships to move oil and gas out of the strait. So, it's kind of a move countermove situation that we've found ourselves in.

Their strategy to-date has been a four pillar one. So, one has been to increase or maximize U.S. casualties to the extent possible. The second is to increase the price of oil and gas. The third is to put pressure on the GCC states, the Gulf allies, by, you know, firing rockets and missiles at them and getting them to pressure the U.S. And, finally, the fourth is to divide the president's base going into midterm elections, because the Iranians believe that the midterms are what President Trump cares about.

They're mistaken in that sense, and they continue to look at this the wrong way. But they're continuing to push pressure on the United States, hoping that's going to get the president to capitulate within the next 40 days before the midterm elections.

TAPPER: Do these potential talks between Washington and Tehran that are being discussed now, are they different from previous rounds in any meaningful way, the previous rounds that either fell apart or never ended up coming to fruition? PLITSAS: Not particularly, unfortunately. I was hoping for better news, but the seven-day plan that was discussed actually is not an Iranian plan. It's one that was devised by the Gulf states, and they were hoping to get Iran and Oman to come together on an agreement of how ships could transit the straits about two weeks ago.

But Iran issued a statement that was maximalist in its demands. You know, we're going to control the waterway. It's a future state you know, bargaining chip. And the Gulf states looked at it and said, forget it. This is ridiculous. We're not going to allow this meeting to take place, and they canceled it. And they've continued to try to push Iran to come to an agreement with Oman.

That, by the way, is point five out of the 14-point plan that's a page-and-a-half long that the U.S. had come to an agreement with Iran on. So, the hope was that if we could get them to come to an agreement on that point of how the Strait of Hormuz would function, they could go back to a negotiating stance. And what that was, was seven days of no hostilities in the strait. Iran doesn't fire. The U.S. lifts the blockade. There's some humanitarian aid that goes, and it facilitates discussions.

What ended up happening in response, though, is after the Gulf States talked to Iran about that, they presented the U.S., Well, if you lift all of the sanctions, if you unfreeze all of our assets and basically give us everything that we want, then maybe we'll lift everything, and we can negotiate afterwards. The U.S. rejected it, and that's where we're at the moment.

TAPPER: All right. Alex Plitsis, thank you so much. I appreciate it. A big decision from Six Flags amusement parks today to shut down its world-famous X2 rollercoaster after a CNN investigation exposed years of injuries and even deaths.

[18:20:00]

Reaction to that announcement, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: One month after an investigation first on CNN, Six Flags amusement parks is now permanently shutting down its famous X2 rollercoaster at Magic Mountain in Los Angeles County. They say more than 100 people have come forward blaming the ride for brain injuries they suffered just in the last two years. Attorneys also cite deaths linked to the ride.

Let's bring in CNN Senior Investigative Correspondent Kyung Lah, who's been all over this story. Kyung, what reason is Six Flags giving for shutting down this ride?

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, broadly, Jake, the company is citing guest confidence being affected, but let's walk through the facts here before I get to their full statement. About a month ago, with reporting colleagues, Blake Ellis and Melanie Hicken, our CNN investigation exposed a history of severe brain injuries and deaths linked to the X2 rollercoaster.

[18:25:01]

Our investigation documented allegations of injured riders, some of those allegations dating back more than a decade.

Now, all of this was largely kept under wraps until two women ended up in the same emergency room right after they got off the X2 ride. They had both been on the ride the same week in July. Both underwent emergency brain surgery.

Now, their surgeons said that they believe their traumatic brain injuries were caused by the X2 ride. Pamela Guillen and the parents of Naomi Greer-Wilkinson spoke to us, and after we shared their stories on CNN, 100 additional victims reached out to their lawyer, all 100 of those victims claiming to be injured from the ride in the last two years, according to their attorney.

Now, that brings us to today's announcement. Six Flags Magic Mountain says that X2 will permanently shut down. The company's president wrote, quote, while X2 consistently passed a multitude of safety tests, we have decided to close the ride because we believe it's the right thing to do. Ride safety is a cornerstone of our business, and when we see guest confidence affected, we take it seriously. Jake?

TAPPER: You heard from some of the families suing Six Flags about this now shuttered ride. What are they telling you?

LAH: The two women I just mentioned, we did hear from their families today. Pam Guillen, who was released from the hospital, but she is still suffering from brain damage. You can see how severe her injury was. She said, quote, I'm relieved that X2 is closing for good. I never should've been hurt, and neither should have the others who were.

And we also heard from the parents of Naomi Greer-Wilkinson. They tell us, quote, this is long overdue. This should have happened long before Naomi's brain injury, and we're happy to hear that now, finally, no one else's daughter or sister will ever be able to be hurt on this ride again.

We do need to point out that Naomi still is in the hospital, Jake, and she is still in a coma. Jake?

TAPPER: Kyung Lah, thank you so much.

A big interview coming up on The Lead, Wall Street Journal Reporter Evan Gershkovich will be here. What he's revealing now about his 2023 arrest in Russia on Trumped up espionage charges, and spending 16 months behind bars in a Russian prison.

Plus, the ever so close Senate race going down in Texas, hear just how much money Republicans are spending to try to win in this ruby red state.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [18:30:00]

TAPPER: And we're back with our Politics Lead. The midterm countdown now only 35 days until Election Day. Republicans face headwinds in many Congressional contests, including the Senate race in Ohio, if recent polls are to be believed. Incumbent Republican Senator, John Husted, who was appointed to the seat last year to backfill JD Vance who became the vice president. Husted now faces former Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown, who lost his seat in 2024 to Bernie Moreno.

A new Marist poll shows Brown has an eight-point lead over Husted among registered voters, not likely voters, but registered. It's not exactly the margins Republicans want to see in a ruby red state like Ohio as they fight to keep control of the Senate.

My panel joins me now. Mike Dubke, The New York Times taking a closer look at Ohio, speaking with voters, take a look. Here's one, quote, I don't know a whole lot about Husted, said Debbie Grenko, 67, a Republican, as she stroked her pony Spirit at the Delaware County Fair in central Ohio last week. It's Sherrod Brown in there, right? The Times goes on to quote a Republican strategist who says name recognition isn't everything.

But, Mike, this can't be reassuring to Republicans who know that Ohio should be a lock.

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: It should be a lock. And, I mean, it wasn't that long ago that Ohio was the toss-up state, and now it should be a Republican lock. So, this is this is a bit distressing.

I do think when you've got a candidate on the ballot in the former lieutenant governor, now Senator Husted, who hadn't run statewide -- has run statewide, but not for a seat like this on his own in this high-profile, we've got a bit of a -- you know, name recognition is important here.

But, you know, I'm hopeful that Ohio comes back, and that's -- I think you're going to ask about a whole bunch of states, and that's going to be my answer, I think, in a number of -- to a number of these questions.

TAPPER: You're heading me off at the pass.

Chuck Rocha, how confident are you -- let me just state for the record here, I don't believe any polls. I'm just a poll skeptic, okay, when it comes to the state-by-state or house-by-house contests. I just -- maybe for national mood or whatever, but not for this kind of thing, because you can't predict the voters and you can't -- I just don't even know if people know how to poll anymore.

That said, what do you think?

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I'm working in a lot of these races. I'm working in the Senate race in Texas and a number of the other Senate races, and 25 Congressional races. And I can tell you this, we've talked about this before, Jake, the American public, Democrat, independent, or Republican, are pissed. And they're just pissed that they can't catch up.

No matter if they get four hours of overtime, eight hours of overtime, pick up a shift on a weekend, they can't get ahead, and the party in power gets blamed, and that's Republicans. Guess what, Republicans? We got blamed two years ago. That's how we got Donald Trump.

And the other thing you can't do in politics, and, Jake, you're right about the polls, is watch where the money and the people go. You can't hide those two things. And Republicans are pouring money into places like Texas, Alaska, Iowa, places we didn't expect them to. That tells you what you need to, because money don't lie.

TAPPER: Yes. I do believe in following what the politicians do because their polling is so much more intense and so much more expensive than the public polling, so I should be more precise. I'm talking about, like, you know, like us.

But let's talk more about the Texas Senate race, because I do believe it is competitive, just like I believe Ohio's competitive. A new CNN analysis found that since the start of this month, September, Republicans have spent $166 million to help boost the campaign of Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, $166 million.

[18:35:11]

That's more than Michigan and Maine combined. In fact, a single ad for Paxton aired 258 times during the courtroom show Judge Judy this, this month alone.

Mike Dubke, obviously, this is what you get when you put up a candidate like Ken Paxton. You need a lot of money.

DUBKE: Yes.

TAPPER: Could this -- could it make the difference?

DUBKE: I think part of it's going to make a difference, but Chuck's right. The voters are pissed.

Now, if you believe that, you know, and I think Republicans do and they understand that, how do you make them pissed about something other than their pocketbook? And that is going to be the struggle here. And I think in Texas, what you're going to see is there's going to be a lot of conversations about the Democratic standard-bearer for Senate, and are you so pissed off that that you're going to vote for this guy for the U.S. Senate? So, that's part of it. But, you know, at the end of the day, this is why candidates matter, and we'll see how Texas fares.

TAPPER: Chuck, it's not just Republican spending in the Lone Star State, of course. The Democratic Senate Majority PAC says it's about to invest in Talarico. That -- I assume you would interpret that as a positive sign because in September, heading into October they're not going to invest unless they think there's a decent shot. ROCHA: That's a huge, huge sign because there's only so much money to go around. And we're talking about Iowa and Ohio and Michigan and all these places. For them to step into Texas shows that the race is where me and you think it is. I know it is, because I can see the inside polling, not only there, but in Congressional races.

But let me put a little more meat on that bone on what you said about that $160 million. That's only really been spent since Labor Day. That's the craziness about this. James Talarico, through the summer and through the early part of the fall here, has been on T.V. by himself building up a reputation of who he is without being unabated by any Republican. That's going to be the real tell, is all of this late money make a difference when James Talarico's been out there telling a message to people?

And the last point is I'm working in all of these southern Congressional races where there's heavy Latinos, and these same Latinos voted for Donald Trump two years ago, where they may be the most pissed because they're the most affected by gas and diesel prices, and they happen to be more middle class. So, the construction industry and what's happening with ICE is all a perfect storm for this Latino hurricane to hit Republicans in the mouth come the midterms.

TAPPER: Mike, there's this other issue on the ballot this midterm season, A.I., data centers. A CNN poll finds nearly two-thirds of registered voters say data centers and AI will be an extremely or very important factor in their vote for Congress.

President Trump met with top tech executives at the White House today. He spoke about data centers. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: So, you're going to see data centers are going to be very popular.

But even in America, there are so many people that want data centers. You know, the areas with data centers have become very rich. People have become very rich.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: An NBC News poll released earlier this month found a majority of Americans oppose construction of any A.I. data center in their community. So, I'm not saying that President Trump's wrong that there aren't people who want it, I mean, 31 percent strongly support it, but it does look like the president is with the 31 percent and not the majority on this issue.

DUBKE: Yes. But sometimes, Jake, you got to lead, and I think that's where the president is on this. Look, people are afraid. I think data centers are part of a larger conversation about A.I. or S.I. or whatever we're calling it today. This isn't a branding issue. We're in a change from an information society to an intelligence society, the new way of things getting done, and that is unnerving. So, we've got cost of living problems right now, but we've also got this new technology that's come.

And I actually give the president some credit here by leading on this and pushing America to basically be a leader in this new endeavor. So, it's going to be tight, but I think he's doing the right thing. He's being a leader on this.

TAPPER: I want to talk once more about one of the more bizarre moments of the day during the Jack Smith hearing on the Hill in the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is a room where there are a lot of cameras can catch a lot of different angles.

So, there was this awkward moment when Missouri Republican Senator Eric Schmitt tried to link Jack Smith to some sort of secret meeting with officials in Atlanta. He was citing text messages, and he said that Jack Smith was at an Atlanta Hawks game on this February 3rd, 2024. That's the day after Fani Willis, the Fulton County district attorney, acknowledged he'd been having an affair with a special prosecutor.

[18:40:01]

Jack Smith shut down the theory, said he was not at a Hawks game in Atlanta. He was at a Hawkeyes game, the Iowa Hawkeyes in College Park, Maryland.

Now, I want to show you Senator Katie Britt of Alabama. She used to be a staffer on Capitol Hill. That's what you really need to understand about this. She used to be the chief of staff for Senator Dick Shelby. So, I just want you to watch Senator Katie Britt's face while Eric Schmitt was setting himself on fire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SMMITH: I recall going to a University of Maryland basketball game where Caitlin Clark was playing right around that time. And the Marshal Service was there with me. You could check if that was the exact date. It was Maryland playing Iowa, I think February of 2024.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Chuck, any thoughts on Senator Britt's reaction face?

ROCHA: All I'm going to say is it's ad-making season, and not only am I going to clip that for an ad, it's Donald Trump saying that data centers are good. It's already been clipped by my team today, and we're putting it in Congressional races tomorrow.

TAPPER: I mean, you know, she's a lovely lady and a wonderful senator, I'm sure, to her constituents, but that is just a, a meme waiting to happen.

Thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

Up next, Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich, he spent 16 long months in a Russian prison on Trumped up espionage charges. Despite the misery, he managed to do his job as a reporter. He has this incredible new book out today. He's going to talk about it next here on The Lead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:45:19]

TAPPER: In our world today, it's been a little over two years since "Wall Street Journal" reporter Evan Gershkovich touched down in the United States after spending 16 months in a Russian prison. His brand- new book, "This Cursed Beautiful Land: A Russian-American Story," is out today. It's a fantastic book, well-reported -- well-reported, and really well written.

And it details his upbringing by his immigrant parents, one from Ukraine, the other from Russia. His first few years reporting in Russia, his arrest on these bogus espionage charges, his time in prison, the sham trial. Fascinating details behind the largest ever east-west post-Soviet prisoner swap, and his eventual freedom.

The book is candid. It includes insights into his conversation with President Biden on the tarmac, where Biden told him, quote, "If you ever want to speak not as a reporter and a president, but just as two people," he offered. "My door's always open."

It is my honor to welcome to THE LEAD, Evan Gershkovich.

Thank you so much for joining us. We've been covering you for some time, and it's wonderful to meet you and wonderful to read your book.

At the beginning of the book, you quote one of the Russian investigators who said you were being charged with espionage. He quoted the Greek philosopher Heraclitus, you can't step in the same river twice. And the full quote goes on to say, because it is not the same river, and he is not the same man.

And I wonder, how have you changed as a man after stepping into that river? How are you doing?

EVAN GERSHKOVICH, IMPRISONED IN RUSSIA FOR 16 MONTHS: So first off, Jake, thanks so much for having me. But also thank you for all the support while I was, you know, on that stint, so to speak. You know, I've been thinking about that a lot in the past few days with the book coming out about, you know, where I stand.

And interestingly enough, I feel actually like I'm kind of myself again. And I think that's partly to do with the work that I put in after the therapy, the processing. And that's partly writing this book, I think with a traumatic event, you have to force yourself to look at it and think about it and come to terms with it. And that's kind of what a, you know, a book does.

But, you know, that could have stayed private. That could have been my own work with a therapist, but I really wanted people to see something beyond just my, you know, just my experience. But the experience of the Russian people.

And so, I hope that they can, you know, they find a book that's much broader than that.

TAPPER: Oh, it is. It's great. Yeah. I mean, it really gets into who your parents are. The immigrant experience and its unsparing and candid.

Your parents, Ella and Mikhail, they came on the show on the 250th day of your imprisonment. They told me they still had hope for you to come home, but they were worried about you. Of course, your mom shared that you told her it was like fighting against a stream just to get through every day.

What kept you going on these incredibly brutal days in a Russian prison?

GERSHKOVICH: You know, I think one thing that's really important to point out is that I think the Russian state is really calculating and how they treat certain prisoners. And so, in my case, if it, you know, it's a cynical -- a cynical setup to take somebody for a swap and eventually swap them.

That means that I'm not being treated in the sort of brutal ways that we know how they can treat people. Viktoriia Roschchyna, a Ukrainian journalist, was taken captive in Ukraine in -- Russian-occupied Ukraine around the same time. And she came home in a body bag. She was killed, and her body organs were removed, so her parents couldn't figure out what happened with her.

And that's not what happened with me. They treated me like the sort of pristine package to be kept and swapped so my value would stay very high. And that was a kind of known, you know, known secret from day one, my first night in prison. You know, there's a -- we have a television and on state -- on state news, you know, a newscaster like you, except its for state propaganda says, you know, it might be cynical, but we've replenished our exchange fund, so to speak.

The term the Russians use for what they, you know, the group of people that they take capture to then trade. And so, that -- knowing that as a reporter who was working in the country for five and a half years up to that point, had reported on cases like this, that really helped, you know, also having this wide support network from my newsroom to other journalists like yourself, also my family, my friends, my girlfriend who really rallied around me. So, I really wasn't alone.

And also my Russian background that you alluded to at the beginning, you know, I spoke the language, I understood the customs. And so, I could have conversations with my cellmates, understand what was going on on television and newspapers, but also talk to prison guards and talk to, you know, FSB officials.

[18:50:04]

And as a journalist, it was a sort of unique opportunity, kind of, you know, to end up there. When I got to Russia in 2017, it was more open, but its not like we could waltz in and interview a kremlin official or let alone an FSB official on any day. And, you know, now that I was there, I understood it's not a situation that I could change. So, I really focused on treating it, you know, in a way as a kind of coping mechanism, as a reporting assignment.

TAPPER: Yeah. You also write about Putin's turn against media organizations just before the full scale invasion of Ukraine. You say, quote, one outlet was branded undesirable, a coded term used to denote a national security threat, after it published a story alleging that Putin had a previously unknown daughter, his third, who had been born out of wedlock in 2003.

Now, obviously, we have freedom of speech and freedom of the press in this country, and yet obviously, freedom of the press has been chilled in this country. And in fact, this national security labeling is not only in Russia.

We at CNN and "Politico" and MS NOW have recently been labeled, although the judge didn't buy it, national security risks. How do you, as a symbol of press freedom or the lack of it in Russia, how do you see what's going on in the U.S. right now?

GERSHKOVICH: I mean, I think, you know, one thing to point out in terms of the differences between the U.S. and Russia at this point, is that that undesirable designation for Russian independent Russian news outlets for that one specifically meant that anybody associated with that outlet would automatically end up in jail for six years.

TAPPER: Yeah.

GERSHKOVICH: Right? And so those journalists all had to flee the country, and they did. You know, one of them, Roman Badanin, who wrote a brilliant book about Putin, last year, he's at Stanford. He's not -- he can't be in the country anymore.

So, you know, we're at a different, let's call it a different stage. And I personally don't think it's always useful in comparing. I think it's -- we can look at what's happening in the states on their own terms, you know, like my -- since I've been home, my newspaper has been sued. A reporter for our newspaper was doxed by, you know, the president, the vice president, and Musk, who was running DOGE at the time.

And, you know, yeah, exactly what happened, you know, just selecting certain television stations and excluding them from the pool because you feel like it doesn't seem like the best way to uphold the First Amendment or, you know, and I think that on its own, isn't exactly great without, you know, I think sometimes these comparisons can be a bit too, you know, sort of drastic.

You know, since I've been home, I've seen comparisons to Hungary, right? During Viktor Orban's rule and sort of Orbanization. And maybe that's more apt, but I think we can just judge it on its own, that it's not the best situation for the press right now back home.

TAPPER: I agree, I agree 100 percent.

Evan Gershkovich, I have a billion questions for you, but we have to go. And I know you have a lot of interviews to do. I hope you'll come back on THE LEAD, not just to talk about your experience, but also to talk about your expertise in Russia and Ukraine and everything else. And I'm so glad that your mom and dad have you back.

GERSHKOVICH: Thanks so much, Jake. Thanks again.

TAPPER: The puck drops next as a special guest pays a visit to THE LEAD. You're not going to want to miss it. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:57:41]

TAPPER: In our sports lead, the puck drops on a new hockey season. NHL on TNT returns tomorrow night with an epic doubleheader, including the battle for Pennsylvania. My Philadelphia Flyers taking on the Pittsburgh Penguins.

But before the face-off, a special guest stopped by THE LEAD.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: As a native Philadelphian, I can tell you that whenever fall rolls around, there's one thing we can all count on.

TAPPER (voice-over): The return of beloved oddball Philadelphia Flyers mascot Gritty. Gritty told me he wanted to get me ready for the season. He may have overdone it.

TAPPER: Gritty, what are you doing with my suits? It is nice having one of my good friends from Philly come for a visit, although some are finding my guest a little distracting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jake, is everything okay in here?

TAPPER: I'm fine. It's hockey season.

TAPPER (voice-over): Gritty said he wanted to help me prepare for my show.

TAPPER: If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready.

TAPPER (voice-over): But I didn't really know what he meant by help.

TAPPER: And in our national lead tomorrow, the city of Philadelphia will attempt to set a world record for the most people eating a cheesesteak at the same time. And let me tell you, Flyers mascot Gritty is on a truly generational run -- chaotic, iconic, and he is the epitome of peak performance.

Who wrote this? Did someone let Gritty into the control room?

Anyway, the orange and black are back Wednesday night. Let's go Flyers! Beat Pittsburgh.

Guys, why am I orange?

(END VIDEOTAPE) TAPPER: Thanks so much to Gritty my bestie for stopping by. Also tomorrow, CNN is hosting a debate in Californias race for governor between Democrat Xavier Becerra and Republican Steve Hilton. I will moderate alongside CNN's Dana Bash.

That is tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 Pacific, only on CNN, and will carry it on all our platforms. CNN, CNN international, CNN en Espanol, and streaming on the CNN all access app. You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X, and on TikTok @jaketapper.

You can follow the show on X and Instagram @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can watch the show on the CNN app.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now. I'll see you tomorrow.