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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Cornell Students Call For Transparency, Accountability From University; U.S. Economy Added 29,000 Jobs Last Month, Fewer Than Expected; Black Unemployment Just Rose At Its Fastest Pace Since COVID; U.S. Economy Added 28K Jobs In Sept., Unemployment Rises To 4.2 Percent; Trump Declines To Rule Out Putting Ice Agents At Polls; Sen. Tillis Tells Off Trump In Newly Revealed Texts. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 02, 2026 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Have a wonderful weekend and I would love it if you spent some of it with us. You can tune in tomorrow for The Arena Saturday. It airs at noon and then again at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time. And also, don't forget, you can always stream The Arena live. You can catch up whenever you want.

It's all in the CNN app. Just scan the QR code below on your screen. You can also catch up by listening to The Arena's podcast. You can follow us on X and Instagram the arenacnn. But don't go anywhere, "The Lead" anchored today by Pamela Brown starts right now.

[17:00:29]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: From civil lawsuit to criminal investigation. The Lead starts right now.

The alleged gang rape at Cornell University now in the hands of a special prosecutor. New York Attorney General Letitia James taking over the case as we learn of a ketamine overdose and a drug related arrest, all just one day before the alleged attack at that very same frat house.

Also this hour, President Trump headed to Mobile, Alabama. But why this ruby red state? Is it a smart strategy for Republicans or a sign of nervousness 32 Days out Election Day?

And new comments from that hero pilot attacked in the cockpit. What he says about the terrifying moment his co-pilot tried to hijack the plane.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Pamela Brown in for Jake Tapper, who is on assignment.

And we begin with our Law and Justice Lead. The alleged 2024 gang rape at a Cornell University fraternity house is now an active criminal investigation. That's according to New York Attorney General Letitia James, who is taking over as special prosecutor. New York Governor Kathy Hochul removed Tompkins County District Attorney Matthew Van Houten from the case, saying she had lost faith in his ability to oversee it fairly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D), NEW YORK: No public official gets a look the other way when the system breaks down and fails our young people. And as governor, I will not allow anyone to sweep this case under the rug.

LETITIA JAMES, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF NEW YORK: A comprehensive investigation of this nature takes time, but my office is committed to seeing it through.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Earlier today, I spoke with Jane Doe's attorney, Thomas Giuffra, who says he supports the decision to bring in a special prosecutor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS GIUFFRA, JANE DOE'S ATTORNEY: I was planning on writing a letter to the governor myself today requesting that she appoint a special prosecutor. And she saved me having to do that. And I was thrilled that she did because she recognized clearly that something was going on up in Ithaca, New York that was inappropriate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Meanwhile, mounting questions for Cornell University police. Today the university revised its FAQ page about this alleged assault. The page initially said Cornell police shared all investigatory information, but now it says campus police share Jane Doe's sworn statement and the Snapchat screenshot.

Also today, new details about police activity at that very same fraternity house just hours before the alleged assault. CNN's Jason Carroll reports from Ithaca, New York, where students are demanding transparency.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOCHUL: What we learned yesterday raised even more troubling questions about what was done and not done after this young woman came forward.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New York's governor visibly angry as she stood next to the state's attorney general, focusing her ire on the Tompkins County district attorney and the Cornell Police Department.

HOCHUL: In what world would the police learn from a victim that she'd been literally gang raped while intoxicated by five men in a fraternity house and not elevate those allegations to the district attorney?

CARROLL (voice-over): Governor Kathy Hochul referred to crucial statements Jane Doe allegedly made to Cornell police in 2024. A New York Times report showed according to a university internal investigation, the Jane Doe allegedly told campus police, "I can say with 100 percent confidence I was raped." That allegation was not included in what university police handed over to the district attorney.

HOCHUL: Them sending a partial record over is, in my judgment, a failure.

CARROLL (voice-over): Attorney General Letitia James, now leading the investigation.

JAMES: Every New Yorker deserves to know that when they report a crime, it will be investigated fully and fairly, that they will be seen and heard. That is the promise of our justice system. I stand ready to lead a process guided by the facts and the law.

CARROLL (voice-over): According to the New York Times report, there were about 120 pages of Jane Doe's interviews with Cornell police and the school's Title IX office. The Tompkins County district attorney telling CNN this week he received a six page statement which did not include her explicit rape allegation. The DA says he supports the governor's decision, saying, "It has become clear that we were not provided the full picture by the university."

[17:05:13]

GIUFFRA: She clearly said I was 100 percent raped. She clearly says she was -- she was hit and there was violence utilized. All that was sanitized out of the six page police report. I think there was a lot of protection of the university and its reputation. And I don't like the word cover up, but it feels like a cover up was going on.

CARROLL: Some students here telling us they welcomed the attorney general taking over the investigation. Many still critical of the university's response, saying there has not been enough transparency, accusing the university's president of not publicly addressing the issue enough.

EMELY GUTIERREZ, CORNELL STUDENT: I think administration needs to talk to our students, not just handle it and let our students have to do it. Our students are the ones who have to conduct the town hall to be heard and understood. Whereas they get to just like leave, go home and send out an FAQ with no type of real explanation about our disciplinary process.

CARROLL (voice-over): The administration at Cornell have released written statements since the alleged assault two years ago, including one on Tuesday saying in part, "The events that took place on our campus in 2024 were appalling then and remain so now. We recognize that these reports have raised difficult and understandable questions about how Cornell responds to allegations of sexual misconduct on campus."

We visited the university president's office today but were unable to meet him and he did not respond to our multiple calls requesting an interview.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: And Pamela, also want to point out that according to the Cornell police records and Title IX investigation, a few things, in the days just before Jane Doe she was -- she was sexually assaulted at the Chi Phi house, one person apparently overdosed on ketamine at the Chi Phi house and apparently there was also some sort of a drug related arrest at the very same fraternity house. And of course you remember Jane Doe alleges on the night that she was sexually assaulted, she was given ketamine at the house. Pamela.

BROWN: Jason Carroll, thank you.

Joining us now is Jane Wang, a sophomore at Cornell University. She attended yesterday's student assembly and spoke about a similar experience in reporting a sexual assault.

Thank you so much for coming on, Jane. So you describe feeling let down by the university's Title IX process after your experience. How so?

JANE WANG,CORNELL UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Yes, the entire -- the entire Title IX process that I had gone through with my case here at Cornell, I felt like it was just treated with a complete lack of urgency, lack of responsiveness and the entire process of me filing paperwork and trying to, you know, deal with the entire process of filing while or in the midst of all of my mental and emotional kind of healing was just -- there was just a total lack of structure and kind of like transparency in that process.

And when I was reading on, on the case with Jane Doe and seeing her kind of discontent and how our school administration failed her as well, it really, really resonated with me. And it made me realize that this is an issue that wasn't just in my situation, but with hers and with so many other, you know, Title IX filings across, you know, the university's kind of like, administration.

BROWN: So in the aftermath of reporting your case, how much did you feel the burden was on you to make sure that the Title IX office was moving forward with its investigation?

WANG: It's difficult because with my case, it felt like the burden was kind of pushed onto the victim or like the survivor in this situation, me, to be the one to consistently reach out for follow ups. After I submitted all of my paperwork, they had responded to tell me that, you know, oh, we are going to look into this case, we're going to possibly start an investigation and we will be in touch with you shortly about, you know, should we need any sort of additional information. And after that, it -- the responsibility became entirely my own to try to send follow up e-mails, try to get updates.

And I think because of the lack of timeliness in which my situation was dealt with for me personally, after, you know, a few months, I realized that it wasn't very conducive for me personally to continue kind of like hearing to the end of this -- to this case. And I had just requested for it to be closed.

But it's because of this lack of timeliness that so many other victims and survivors are discouraged from truly seeking out justice within this process because of how slow it is. Nobody wants to have their case be dragged out, you know, months and months on end, and have to relive through that trauma every single time, you know, it gets brought up. That was my personal experience with it.

[17:10:38]

And I'm sure I can't speak on behalf of every single victim, obviously, but that was definitely my personal experience with it. And I think for a lot of other victims as well, the fact that our system is in place is not enough to ensure that the actual students and the actual victims are really able to utilize those resources to eventually seek out justice.

BROWN: In terms of last night's public forum, do you think anything actionable came out of it?

WANG: I am -- I'm very optimistic. And I -- and I -- I don't want to say that I'm optimistic because I think, you know, the school is going to turn around from this and, you know, resolve sexual violence forever and ever.

But I, as somebody who's studying public policy here at Cornell and has taken a lot of classes, you know, with Cornell professors here, learning about, you know, different policies that we can enact going into the future to, you know, create some sort of positive change, I really do hope that this situation is a kind of wakeup call for both the Cornell administration, but also for every single institution of higher education out there nationwide, to kind of look within, realize the, you know, systems of support that are there or maybe not there for their students and really take this opportunity as a way to listen to our student body, listen to the actual needs and demands of survivors, and to be able to implement policy that's going to put them first going into the future.

BROWN: Tell us more about the atmosphere on campus since this civil suit was filed and the campus has been in the national spotlight, both in the perspective as a Cornell student and as someone who has gone through the Title IX process.

WANG: It's complicated because I think you see a lot of kind of both sides of the coin here. There are some people who decide to kind of deal with the situation by not really talking about it at all or pretending like everything's normal and OK. I've personally had some teachers or some like, you know, clubs on campus basically treat this as, oh, you know, it's happening right now, but it's going to eventually blow over. And in the meantime, it's more important for us to continue as normal and to, you know, still provide all of the Cornell students here just like the same kind of consistent education, same opportunities, same events.

That personally, for me, feels very, very discouraging and upsetting to see because it kind of makes it feel like nobody cares or that nobody is really, really invested in, you know, the mental health of all of the students on campus as a whole. But I do also see a lot that's kind of on the opposite side of this coin, being all of the amazing, amazing student organizations on campus who are speaking up about this and trying to create a change. BROWN: Well, Jane Wang, we so appreciate you coming on to share your experience and your perspective on everything happening -- about everything happening on campus right now. Thank you so much.

WANG: Absolutely.

BROWN: And a reminder, for anyone who may be navigating a similar crisis, there are people who can help at the RAINN Network, short for Rape, Abuse, Incest National Network. Reach them anytime at rainn.org with two Ns. Or call 1-800-656-HOPE.

And still ahead, new text messages sent to President Trump revealed how outgoing Republican Senator Thom Tillis reportedly lashed out at the president who threatens his political career.

[17:14:36]

Plus, that hero fly Dubai pilot, in his own words, what he's saying today about his co-pilot trying to hijack a passenger plane.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In our World Lead, the hero pilot stabbed by his co-pilot on Wednesday's terrifying flight, Dubai flight, is speaking out. Smit Machchhar spoke with India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi in a video call earlier today. And he was still in the hospital, bandaged and recovering. His wife, Sonal, also spoke to CNN affiliate CNN News 18. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SONAL MACHCHHAR, FLYDUBAI PILOT'S WIFE: We haven't asked him anything because right now we don't want him to get flashbacks of the incident. I'm just so grateful to God that he's been saved and everyone on the plane is safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv, Israel.

Jeremy, how is speed processing all of this?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Pam, for the last several days, I've been speaking with several of the passengers who were on that flight, including some of the other passengers who acted heroically to subdue the attacker, the co-pilot in this case. But everyone's been waiting to hear from the Indian captain, Smit Machchhar, the man who successfully managed to open that pilot -- that cockpit door even as he was being attacked. He spoke today to the Indian Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, from his hospital bed in the United Arab Emirates and this is what he said.

[17:20:15]

CAPTAIN SMIT MACHCHHAR, FLYDUBAI PILOT (through translator): I was fighting for my life. But there was a moment where I realized if I don't do anything because I'd fallen down, I was so severely wounded that I had fallen down. At that time I was thinking, what if I don't get up? And sir, I've been flying planes for the last 17 years, and I've been a captain for the last 11 years. And even if I shut my eyes, I know what is happening in the plane.

And when I was on the ground, I realized that the aircraft was falling down. And I knew in that moment, one last push, Smit, just do it. The door is right there. And even at that time, he was beating me up. And then I just opened it, sir.

And then everybody came. And everybody else also played an equal role in this. I was telling, sir, that I was doing this for my life, but at the same time, I knew that I cannot let everybody else die. That's it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: And Pam, it's really impossible to understate how critical Machchhar's actions were in that flight because those cockpit doors, they only open from the inside. And so without him having done that, none of the other heroic passengers would have been able to get in there and subdue the attacker.

Dr. Shota Musaev, the dentist on the flight who treated him, told me that he was worried that that pilot, that Indian pilot, might not make it. His blood pressure was dropping, he was falling in and out of consciousness. But thankfully, now he's being treated at a hospital in the UAE and appears to be recovering.

BROWN: Yes, we wish him a speedy recovery. Wow. And is there any update, Jeremy, on the investigation into the co-pilot?

DIAMOND: Well, authorities have yet to publicly disclose the name and the identity of that co-pilot. But so far we've heard from Israeli officials that he is an Omani national and he has now been extradited from Saudi Arabia to the United Arab Emirates, where Emirati authorities are now in charge of that investigation. And we expect that Israeli officials will also have some role or at least some cooperation with the UAE in carrying out that investigation. Notable, of course, because initially Israel was largely in the dark. Saudi Arabia and Israel don't have official diplomatic relations.

But now with the UAE, a very different story. Pam.

BROWN: All right, Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much.

Well, just ahead, the last jobs report before midterm Election Day. What it shows about the state of the economy and unemployment for one particular demographic rising at its fastest pace since COVID.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:27:08]

BROWN: In our Money Lead, the final jobs report before the midterm election is out. And it's likely going to complicate Republicans final economic pitch to voters. The U.S. added just 29,000 jobs in September, far fewer than expected. Unemployment ticked up to 4.2 percent. And workers' wages are not keeping up with inflation.

Wages are at 3 percent. Inflation is at 3.6 percent. Joining us now to discuss is Justin Wolfers, professor of Economics, Public Policy at the University of Michigan.

Justin, nice to see you. So shortly before this latest jobs report came out this morning, former Trump adviser Stephen Moore told my colleague John Berman this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MOORE, FORMER TRUMP ECONOMIC ADVISER: We've got record investment in the United States, manufacturing as strong as it's been in my lifetime. Construction industry is doing very well. For blue collar workers, this has been a real boom period. So, you know, other than the fact that inflation is ticking up, almost all of the other indicators of the economy are strong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Does the latest jobs report reflect that, Justin?

JUSTIN WOLFERS, PROFESSOR ECONOMICS AND PUBLIC POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: Mate, I think there's a little lesson there. There's just no point interviewing or talking to lying liars because lying liars lie. One hundred percent of all jobs growth in this economy has come from the health care and social assistance sector. The rest of the economy is actually shedding jobs. I don't know why you would want to look the sectors that Stephen Moore just suggested you would want to look at.

Manufacturing is not doing well. It hasn't been doing well for decades. We have turned the U.S. economy and the global economy upside down with this idea that somehow tariffs are going to turn it around and they just plain haven't. What they have done, of course, is shaped the cost of living. They've nudged that up, making it even harder for the folks who do have a paycheck to get by.

BROWN: I want to talk about one fact that really stood out from today's jobs report, and that is Black unemployment rose to its fastest pace since COVID. The unemployment rate for Black Americans rose from six to 7 percent. It's even more stark for Black women, whose jobless rate went from 5 percent 9 -- 5.9 percent in August to 7.3 percent in September. What do you make of that?

WOLFERS: Mate, this is where you're so upset that you interviewed an economist, because I'm going to tell you the truth, which is these are very, very noisy numbers. Once you get down to thinking about the unemployment rate by race and then by race by gender, we just don't have very accurate measures. So they bounce around a lot from month to month.

What I can tell you is over the long run, if you run a healthy economy, a rising tide lifts all boats. And so generally speaking, the stronger the economy, the better things are for all sorts of underrepresented minority groups. BROWN: So theoretically speaking, say we weren't dealing with tariffs in the Iran war, how do you think the economy would be right now in comparison?

[17:30:05]

WOLFERS: So if we're in an imaginary world in which economic policy was spot on and the U.S. was respected and admired around the world, wouldn't it be wonderful? I mean, you know, maybe you and I would just have a beer, we'd have a chat, we'd have a smile, we wouldn't be worried about the rising cost of living. We wouldn't be worried about rising bond yields. We wouldn't be worried about rising mortgage interest rates. We wouldn't just I've got this constant far right here in my brow, you might have it too. I'd get Botox to get rid of it.

BROWN: Just wrinkle right here.

WOLFERS: Now I wouldn't even have to pay for my Botox. Yes, wouldn't that be so much better? So let's go to your imaginary world. And let's just dream there together. Because I think that seems like a lovely place.

BROWN: Is there anything? Is there any silver lining in the economy right now? I mean, is there anything that jumps out at you that you can point to? You know what, that is a positive indicator.

WOLFERS: Oh, absolutely.

BROWN: Tell us about that.

WOLFERS: The problem, you know, when people say everything's perfect, my job is to say no, it's not. But when people say everything's terrible, they're also wrong. The unemployment rate, it was 4.2 percent. Today, it's a tick up from 4.1 percent. But basically, it's been stable for two, two and a half years, at a rate that's very low by historical standards, very low by international standards.

And so the reality is, often joblessness can be a really tough thing in a lot of people's lives. And for the 4.2 percent who have it, my heart goes out to you. But I do want to celebrate the fact it's only 4.2 percent. That's fantastic news.

BROWN: All right, good. Good. Got some good news in there. I also want to talk about this move that, you know, Trump pressured Europe to tap into its emergency stocks of diesel or face a possible ban on U.S. exports of the fuel. He announced earlier today that Europe will now release its diesel reserves. Will that translate to lower gas prices for Americans? And if so, how soon? Could it be before the elections?

WOLFERS: So problem number one, the President was talking about diesel there. What goes into yours and my car is gasoline. Problem number two is --

BROWN: Well, but it does factor into our, you know, other cost of living items, right? Because it transport trucks need diesel to transport. Yes. WOLFERS: Absolutely. Look, this is a gimmick, and it's a dumb gimmick. Basically, there's a bunch of fuel sitting in tanks and we can get rid of the fuel that's in those tanks, but it doesn't solve the fundamental problem. Fundamental problem is we can't get oil from the Middle East. We can't do that because the Strait of Hormuz is closed. We can't do that because we're in the middle of a war over there.

Getting folks to take a little bit of fuel out of their storage tanks, well, on the upside, it means there's more fuel today. It also means there's less in the storage tanks, but none of the underlying problem is solved. What you might do is make it look like you're taking some action in the days and weeks leading up to an election.

BROWN: Justin Wolfers, always great to have you on. Thank you so much.

WOLFERS: My pleasure.

[17:32:56]

BROWN: All right. Right now in Alabama, President Trump is just minutes away from taking the stage. Up next, some of his recent rhetoric that has election watchers listening up, including a comment about possibly invoking the Insurrection Act.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In our Politics Lead, with just 32 days until polls close in the midterm elections, President Trump is declining to rule out sending ICE agents to polling sites. In an interview with Time, he was also asked if he'd rule out declaring a state of emergency in the lead-up to the midterms unless there is widespread violence in the streets.

He responded, I don't rule anything out or in. We'll see. You mean the Insurrection Act? The reporter said, yes. To which Trump answered, I've never used it. I could use it. A lot of people think I should use it sometimes.

David Becker is the executive director and founder of the Center for Election Innovation and Research. So David, walk us through what Election Day in this country would look like if Trump were to invoke the Insurrection Act. And is that an actual concern for you?

DAVID BECKER, CEO & FOUNDER, CENTER FOR ELECTION INNOVATION & RESEARCH: It's not much of a concern. Look, the President has tried in over 20 months to exert power over elections in the United States, power that he just doesn't have under the Constitution. Under Article 1, Section 4 of the Constitution, he has zero power over elections. The state legislatures run elections. The states run elections. So he's tried to sign two executive orders. Both have been blocked by the courts, including by the Supreme Court.

He has tried to seize sensitive voter data from 30 states plus D.C. In the 26 courts that have looked at these cases, his DOJ is now zero in 26 in those cases. He's tried to investigate past elections. He's come up with nothing. And the fact is, the federal government doesn't run elections. The states run elections.

And we have, in our 250 years of American elections, never canceled or postponed or interfered with a federal general election, not through a civil war, not through two world wars, not through two global pandemics, not through multiple natural disasters, and not even during the war of 1812, when British troops were on American soil, they had seized the city of Detroit, they burned down the White House, and the elections of 1812 and 1814 still went on.

The President can sign a piece of paper. He can say what he wants to say. But the states run elections. And if he tries to do anything really extreme, the courts are going to block it right away. Voters in this country, and we might see record turnout, are going to see the same safe, convenient, secure voting experience they've seen in past recent elections.

BROWN: We're already seeing a lot of early voting. Some of the voters actually said they wanted to vote early because they wanted to avoid any issues on Election Day. I mean, some voters are worried there could be some shenanigans of some sort. What do you say to them?

[17:40:01]

BECKER: Yes. Yes, we certainly can understand it. We've never seen a President try to interfere with elections as much as he has. We've never seen the federal government before go from being a partner with the states to potentially being an adversary. But for all of that, it's been a lot of noise. And there hasn't been a lot of success on the parts of the federal government in interfering with our elections.

Think back to the California primary, where the President aimed a ton of disinformation at California election officials in the aftermath of that primary. He had lawyers from the U.S. attorney's office in Los Angeles go down to the vote counting center, where they were welcomed because the process is transparent. And they said some political things afterwards. But it's been about four months, exactly four months since that primary.

And all the people who won those elections advanced to the general election. There are no legal challenges. There are no investigations and prosecutions. California's elections have held up to scrutiny. The election officials work as withstood scrutiny. And that's what we're going to see in November. I can understand the concern. And early voting is a great way to avoid any potential problem. Forty-seven states, every state except Mississippi, Alabama and New Hampshire, offer some form of early voting.

And I just checked today. I think today we went past a million ballots.

BROWN: We did.

BECKER: Already having been cast in the November election.

BROWN: We did. I have confirmed that. Just in your work at the center, have you ever been given any reason to doubt the integrity of America's election process?

BECKER: No, quite the contrary. I mean, our process designed to be resilient against all kinds of potential problems. It's a very complex process. We don't run a single election in November. We run about 10,000 little elections all over the country in various counties and localities run by our neighbors, public servants at the county and local level and at the state level. And their work is transparent. It's withstand scrutiny every single time. There's never been more scrutiny of elections.

And yet for all of that, all of those elections have withstood that scrutiny by courts and others. It's really remarkable. If anyone has any doubts, they should volunteer to be a poll worker. And they'll see all the redundancies and checks and balances and transparencies in the process that prevent election theft or any major error from changing the outcome of an election. And so you should feel confident about that as we go to the polls this year.

BROWN: We're running out of time, but I quickly want to ask you about DOJ announcing charges against 10 non-U.S. citizens in Minnesota, who it alleges either registered to vote or did vote in an election. You released a statement in response in which you asserted that non- citizen voting is incredibly rare and well prevented by states. But when charges are leveled like this, does that undercut the message? And so, so doubt.

BECKER: So I think maybe that's what they're trying to do. Certainly to announce arrests like this over several elections in Minnesota, this close to an upcoming election is odd for the DOJ to do. The DOJ has a policy that they're not supposed to be investigating election crimes and announcing it close to an election. But every time they make an announcement like this, it's almost an admission that this isn't much of a problem. Ten people in Minnesota is .000, I think, 3 percent of the voter registration list.

It had no impact. The election officials across the country, we run a tracker on our website. And every time you see when these claims are investigated, it's a very small number. States are doing a really good job of keeping non-citizens off the list, and the numbers are infinitesimally small.

BROWN: All right, David Becker, thanks so much.

[17:43:25]

And up next, the few choice words from outgoing Republican Senator Thom Tillis. The colorful language he reportedly sent directly to President Trump who tried to threaten the senator's political career.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In our Politics Lead, a new text messages released by "Politico," we see Senator Thom Tillis, the outgoing Republican lawmaker known for speaking out against the President, berating him this summer. In one text, the senator writes to Trump, I still want to help, but I don't take this bullshit from anyone, including you, Mr. President. Save that shit for the cowards who don't care if you fail. I care if you fail. And right now we are failing. Quoting Thom Tillis there.

Tillis's message seems to be a direct response to Trump posting that day that the senator was, "weak and ineffective and a quitter for deciding not to run again." Tillis revealed these texts to the President in his new book called "How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents." My panel joins us now. We have Mark Williams here, as well as Adrian Elrod. Mark, to kick it off to you, you really never see Republicans in this day and age talk to the president like this. What do you make of it?

MARK WILLIAMS, PRINCIPAL, FEROX STRATEGIES: Well, this is Thom Tillis unchained, right? He's not running for reelection. And he's trying to sell trying to sell books. I mean, this is like old white guy TMZ at this point. You just you're dishing on your on your ex. And so it's I guess it's sexy for the next like 30 seconds. But at the end of the day, I mean, I think he's got to sell subscriptions or whatever he's trying to hawk right now.

BROWN: So in another text, he writes, If you had ever threatened me directly with a primary, I would have immediately told you to F yourself. And I would not. That's a bridge too far to say. And I would have announced my retirement immediately. Save those threats and had games for cowards and fools. This is quite a peek behind the curtain. Do you think any other Republicans speak to Trump this way privately?

ADRIENNE ELROD, FORMER SENIOR SPOKESWOMAN, HARRIS-WALZ CAMPAIGN: I don't know. It's fascinating. He obviously proactively put these texts out there in his book that he's got coming out, which is also fascinating. Look, I mean, here's the bottom line. Thom Tillis has been very outspoken against Trump for quite a long time. He's made it very clear that, you know, one of the reasons why he didn't run for reelection is because he doesn't like this current environment with the President and where the Republican Party is going.

[17:49:56]

I also think he knew that he would have a very difficult time running against Governor Cooper, the Democratic nominee, who's incredibly popular in the state. But I don't know. I guess I'm not as surprised because he's been so -- Tillis has been so outspoken against Trump that he's just obviously doubling down and probably doesn't want to have a career as a lobbyist because I think it's going to be that much harder for him to get anything done from the Trump administration once he leaves the Senate.

BROWN: Do you see any more Republicans taking a cue from Tillis?

WILLIAMS: No, not if they want to continue their kind of political careers right now and kind of the Trump era. I think if, you know, if we really look at it, if these two guys could have figured out how to get along, the Republicans wouldn't be witnessing what we're witnessing in the North Carolina Senate race right now. I mean we just saw a Super PAC pull money out of North Carolina. I think if Thom Tillis is in that race, it is far more competitive than it is right now.

BROWN: But what about the fact that Trump is a historically unpopular president? I mean, could this in a way benefit a Republican like Tillis? I know you said he can't go out lobbying because of this, but it's -- I mean, could the tide be turning?

WILLIAMS: I don't think so. I think the Republican electorate is still the Republican electorate. And so if you come out against at least within kind of Republican primary voters as against the President, you're still going to kind of --

ELROD: Yes, but I think there's kind of a balancing act. I mean, you are still seeing people who are candidates who are embracing, you know, some aspects of Trump. But you're also seeing a lot of candidates, Ashley Hinson in Iowa, for example, who are coming out against --

BROWN: Maria Salazar.

ELROD: And Megan and Salazar. There's a number of them who are really distancing themselves, you know, maybe saying like, thank you, Mr. President, for trying, but like we need to get this war needs to come to an end. So on policy issues, you're seeing that happen. But on culture issues, you know, the issues that Trump has really used to galvanize and solidify the MAGA base, it's that much harder for them to come out.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I think like if you find kind of one-offs, they'll go against the President, war on Iran, gas prices, et cetera. But you're not going to see them attacking the President like we saw Thom Tillis in these texts.

BROWN: I want to go to what former Biden press secretary Karine Jean- Pierre, remember her? She penned a new op-ed in "The New York Times" where she warns that the current administration is making the same mistakes that President Biden did, particularly on the economy. She writes, the truth is we had a stale message and outdated models for delivering it. It cost Mr. Biden and eventually Vice President Kamala Harris dearly. President Trump is now making a mistake even more damaging. What do you think about that?

ELROD: She's exactly right. I mean, I worked very closely with Karine when I was President Biden's initial one of his top spokespeople on the campaign. And I took that job then to Vice President Harris when we did the candidate switch. I mean, look, we had a lot of strong numbers to tout. I mean, 15 million jobs, record unemployment, record low black unemployment, so many things to talk about, record number of manufacturing jobs. I can still tout them in my sleep. But the bottom line is the American people are not feeling it.

Then you lose a lot of credibility. And so what we were doing, I was just as guilty of this, is we were going out there on T.V. and different mediums and saying, no, actually, the economy is great. You're wrong. You may be feeling some economic pain, but the overall economy is good. I'm glad she wrote this. I think that there were certainly outdated models. And I think you are also seeing, as she makes clear in the op-ed, that Donald Trump is doing the exact same thing, except this time the economy is far worse. Inflation is up. Gas prices are higher. People can't afford the groceries. It's far worse than it was under 2024.

BROWN: It was hard under Biden for a time. But at the end, when he was leaving office, everything was going down. Go ahead.

WILLIAMS: Right. And, you know, KJP, I love that she's a truth teller now, right? When Biden was in office, she was trying to tell us, don't believe your lying eyes. Inflation is transitory. There's $5 gas. Don't believe any of that. Joe Biden's behind the scenes juggling chainsaws.

BROWN: But isn't Trump doing that right now? He's saying, don't believe what you see.

WILLIAMS: Well, no, I agree. I just love how people get, you know, two years removed. And now she's like, oh, well, now I can tell the truth about the messaging that we were saying.

BROWN: Well, and also it brings up the messaging around age, because she touches on that. She says of these two men, writing, looking back, we misread the public mood, thinking the age conversation would fade. The Trump White House should realize that over the next two years, there will be only more, not less scrutiny when the President appears to drift off during meetings, is cagey about the results of his medical exams or goes on one of his erratic late night social media screens? The President is aging in front of our eyes. We've seen him fall asleep at meetings. Do Republicans have concerns?

WILLIAMS: I don't think so. He's not running for re-election. And we're going to start, like, have all the candidates.

ELROD: Yes, but he's currently the president for another two years. Two more years.

WILLIAMS: But Democrats didn't even say that about Biden until it became painfully obvious on the debate stage that it was a, it was a problem because he was running for re-election. At the end of the day, he's not running for re-election. Republicans are going to be like, I think he's good to go. He's the most transparent president that we've had in, in 20 years. In 20 years.

ELROD: The most transparent president we've ever had in 20 years.

WILLIAMS: He's in front of the media --

BROWN: And hasn't raised his tax returns willingly.

ELROD: Exactly.

WILLIAMS: -- day after day after day after day, which is far more than Joe Biden ever was.

[17:55:02] ELROD: OK.

BROWN: Final words and then we got to go.

ELROD: No, I just -- I think we are done relitigating the past as Democrats. We are looking forward to the future. And that's one of the reasons why Democrats are doing so well. And you have a whole new crop of potential people when, right when the midterms are over, who are going to announce their presidents, the presidential bid on the Democratic side. And it's going to be really exciting to watch.

WILLIAMS: President AOC, on the way.

BROWN: OK. Let's, let's see what happens. Thank you all. Appreciate it.

Another live look in Mobile, Alabama. It is rally night for the President and this Republican stronghold. We're also going to go live to Iowa where Republicans are flooding the state with money. What CNN's political director is reading into all of this, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:59:52]

BROWN: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Pamela Brown in for Jake Tapper. In this hour, President Trump is on his way to Alabama as he ramps up his midterm campaigning with just 32 days to go. But there are new signs today that Republicans are growing increasingly worried about their odds of holding on to the U.S. Senate.