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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Dem. Nominee Amy Acton's Estranged Mother Urges Voters Not To Vote For Her In New Attack Video; CNN Poll Of Polls Gives Democrat Edge In Ohio Senate Race; N.H. GOP Senate Candidate Distances Himself From Trump In Ad: "Never Even Met The Man"; Ukraine, Russia Face Impasse In Negotiations And On The Battlefield; "Out Of Office" With Sen. Thom Tillis Of North Carolina; Knicks Aim To Defend Championship In Season Opener Vs. 76ers. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired October 20, 2026 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Thanks very much to my panel. Really appreciate all of you being here. Thanks to you at home for watching. Don't go anywhere. Jake Tapper is standing by for "The Lead."
Hi, Jake. Great interview with Senator Tillis.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Oh, thanks. You got to watch the whole thing. We really go into the trailer park and the creek, all the places. You'll like it.
HUNT: Love it.
TAPPER: Thank you so much.
HUNT: Have a great show.
TAPPER: We'll see you tomorrow on "The Arena."
HUNT: See you tomorrow.
[17:00:41]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. And from that CNN election jam, you know we're going to start in our Politics Lead because there are only two more weeks until midterm election day. But candidates should not assume that they still have 14 days to make their cases because some Americans have been quite proactive this year. More than 10 million American voters have already cast their ballots in the midterm elections with in person early voting starting today in Hawaii, Louisiana, Missouri, Utah and Wisconsin.
Republicans continue to play defense. It is a brutal environment for Republicans out there. They are working to hang on to seats in deep red areas that could now be in danger, thanks to many factors, including President Trump's unpopular war in Iran, President Trump's unpopular tariffs and what the public perceives to be President Trump's out of whack priorities. That's according to the polls.
So today, President Trump is continuing his rescue mission. We should note the president by some measures has the very worst job approval rating of any president heading into the midterms ever. But Mr. Trump is determined to try to rally those remaining faithful. Traveling to Greenville, North Carolina, today, a state that continues to see higher early voting turnout compared to 2022 midterms, Trump is specifically rallying for Michael Whatley, another Republican, in a tight race against his Democratic opponent, former North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper.
Again, just to underline this, President Trump worried about the former Republican National Committee chairman running for Senate in a state that Trump won three times in a row. That's where the national mood is. Trump has a rally stop every day this week, campaigning into overwhelmingly red states that voted for him in double digits in 2024.
This weekend, he's going to head to Michigan, hoping to lock down a Republican Senate seat for Mike Rogers, who's running in a crucial tight race against Democrat Abdul El-Sayed. Michigan being one of the few Democratic trouble states. Last night, Trump stopped in deep red Kansas, where Republicans are trying to ward off a historic fumble in danger of losing a Senate race to Democrats for the first time in 94 years in that state. Trump there defended the state's Republican incumbent Senator Roger Marshall, who's also a physician, from charges that he was too aggressive in going after poor patients who were trying to pay him bills that they couldn't afford. Trump made headlines for a term he used while defending Senator Marshall.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITES STATES: He was given a bum rap because he was mandated by law to request strongly money owed from patients. You're not allowed not to do it. You have to, by law, go after those people. And they made it like, oh, he was some kind of a shylock type guy. And if he didn't make these requests, he would be breaking the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Trump also used the term shylock last year. Then Vice President Joe Biden did in 2014. The Anti-Defamation League, which last year condemned Trump's use of the word, wrote today on X that the term was, quote, "rooted in a longstanding anti-Semitic stereotype."
Also in Kansas yesterday, Trump relied on a familiar tactic that he uses when it's tough for his party out there. He's invoking now the dramatic images of the fiery protests in France.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If you want to see what is at stake in this election, just look at what's happening in France, a once great nation that is being conquered, looted and burned to the ground by migrants, jihadists and communists who hate Christianity and they hate, frankly, the Western civilization itself.
When you see burning steeples and raging fires in France, just remember that is what the radical Democrats want to do to America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Trump last night announced a plan aimed at helping the same farmers that his own tariffs and war in Iran have hurt. It's an $8 billion farm relief plan to deal with high fertilizer and diesel costs. Then Trump joked about his push to make E15 fuel available year round, which would help Kansas. But he said he would only do it if voters reelected Republican Senator Roger Marshall.
CNN's Jeff Zeleny is on the campaign trail for us in Detroit, where this afternoon both candidates in Michigan Senate race have been holding events.
And Jeff, you're outside an event with El-Sayed that he held with Georgia Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock. What's standing out to you today on the ground there?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, two weeks before Election Day, it's clear that obviously Congress in recess. So many members of Congress are fanning out across battleground states like right here in Michigan. Members of the Congressional Black Caucus have been here most every day trying to rally support for Abdul El-Sayed, who is trying to win over a critical block of the electorate here, particularly in Detroit as well as Michigan. Black voters, of course, are key to any Democratic victory.
[17:05:22]
But this race has been very interesting because Republican Mike Rogers has also been trying to make some inroads and outreach as well. But just a short time ago here, Abdul El-Sayed talked about voting rights and protection as a way to rally support among Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABDUL EL-SAYED, (D) MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: If your vote did not matter, they would not be working so hard to take it away from you. If your vote did not matter, they would not be working so hard to suppress it. If your vote did not matter, they would not be so afraid of your vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENY: So early voting actually starts here on Saturday. And former President Barack Obama will be here campaigning for Abdul El Sayed, then President Trump comes the next day. An open question will be if Mike Rogers will attend that rally. But he was speaking earlier this afternoon at the Economic Club right here in Detroit, again talking about his outreach to African American communities. He's opened up a campaign office right here in Detroit, which most Republican candidates have not done.
He explained his rationale like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE ROGERS, (R) MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: We have built coalitions that really are very untraditional for a Republican candidate. We've spent a lot of time here in Detroit, Flint, Pontiac. I think if we're going to get our state right, we have to have everybody included in its forward progress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENY: So, look, Jake, in the next two weeks, it's clear that both candidates here in this critical Senate race are trying to rally all of the potential coalitions.
But what is so interesting about here in Michigan, of course, during the primary campaign that Abdul El-Sayed just narrowly defeated Congresswoman Haley Stevens, the Black vote was central to that. But Stevens largely won that. So that is why he is trying to shore up some support there. But Mike Rogers is also trying to shave off a sliver of support.
So in all of these close races, there is no doubt that every vote matters. But here, the coalitions, Jake, are going to be something to keep an eye on election night.
TAPPER: Yes, maybe the tightest race in the country. Jeff Zeleny on the campaign trail in Michigan, thanks so much.
The race for Ohio governor is getting a lot of attention today, and it's getting rather nasty. Mysterious new viral video features the estranged mother of the Democratic nominee, Dr. Amy Acton. And she, the estranged mother, urges Ohioans to not vote for her daughter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONNA STEARNS ARTHUR, AMY ACTON'S MOTHER: It's not easy for a mother to say this, but Amy has a serious problem. She's lied her entire life. My daughter needs help, and she can't help you if she needs help herself.
Don't vote for people who lie. Don't let her become your governor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Pretty stunning stuff until you read into what Amy Acton's mother is actually responsible for in Amy Acton's childhood. The video has since -- has strong condemnations across the political spectrum. Also from Acton's brother -- now, Acton notes that her mother lost custody of her and her brother in 1978 after choosing to stay with Acton's stepfather, who was convicted of sexually abusing Amy Acton as a child.
Now, the video doesn't say who made the ad, who paid for it, but the campaign of Vivek Ramaswamy, the Republican nominee, did not disavow it. In fact, they seemed to double down on it. And it is the latest escalation of what is considered one of the nation's ugliest political campaigns being run by Vivek Ramaswamy. It is a technique and a tactic that reeks of desperation.
Let's bring in CNN's Lauren Fox to discuss. Lauren, first of all, obviously Vivek Ramaswamy's campaign standing by this, not disavowing it. Do we have any idea where this video came from?
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, we don't know who made this video. In fact, in this new video, Acton's mother directs people not to vote for her estranged daughter for governor. And she argues she's lied her entire life and that she needs help. But what's not included in this video is who created it or the painful and complicated backstory that has existed for Acton and her family.
Now, the Democratic gubernatorial candidate has talked publicly about how she has not seen her mother in decades, since she was 12 years old and her mom lost custody of her and her brother. Acton's also talked about how her mother's husband during that time was charged with sexually abusing her when she was a young girl. The campaign issued a statement from Acton's brother, Phil Stearns, calling the video, quote, "a despicable low in an attempt to turn the sexual abuse Amy endured at 12 years old from our birth mother's husband into a political talking point."
[17:10:05]
Now, Jake, there's no evidence that this is actually airing on television or on digital in Ohio. The video actually first appeared Monday night on Ohio political blog "The Rooster." The author of that blog, D.J. Byrnes, told our colleague Patrick Svitek, that he obtained it from a voter who actually saw it as part of a polling call and recorded it.
Now, no one has claimed credit for making the video, and an official with V-PAC, the main super PAC that's backing Republican gubernatorial candidate Vivek Ramaswamy, said it didn't produce it. But Ramaswamy's official campaign did not address whether it was responsible for the ad, although the spokesperson Connie Luck suggested voters should consider the message from Acton's mother. Jake.
TAPPER: Lauren, how is Acton herself responding to this video, considering the fact that her stepfather was charged with sexually abusing her when she was a child?
FOX: Yes, I mean, Acton has talked about this in the past, and she addressed it on local radio today. Just take a listen here, Jake.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMY ACTON, (D) OHIO, GOV. CANDIDATE: It -- you know, it's awful to see this. It's awful to see her this way. And it's even more incredible to see that my opponent has taken advantage of someone who is -- who's clearly not well, who is older. And this is totally in line with who he is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOX: The campaign also cut a new video from her brother talking about the abuse that they both suffered at the hand of their former stepfather. I would also just note, Jake, that the campaign points out that obviously they want to be talking about the economy, they want to be talking about other issues, but certainly this has been front and center in this very personal attack today in Ohio. Jake.
TAPPER: Yes, it's a new low in American politics. CNN's Lauren Fox, thanks so much.
Let's discuss with our panel. Let's start with David Urban, your take on the video. And Vivek Ramaswamy's campaign not shying away from the message of the ad and not addressing who's responsible for it or even distancing themselves from it.
DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. You know, Jake, if anything, it makes Amy Acton a more sympathetic candidate, right, because you feel for her for what you had to endure as a young child. So I'm not sure who was testing it and what polling situation or who put it out, but if I was the, you know, the Republican candidate here, Vivek Ramaswamy, running, I would run away from that ad and say, you know, you have sympathy, great sympathy for victims of sexual assault, especially my candidate.
Listen, this kind of goes hand in glove with the -- with all the Epstein stuff. You know, voters are just -- they're very sympathetic to victims of sexual assault, alleged sexual assault. And it does not -- it's just not a good look. And so come out, disavow it, move on.
You know, you heard Lauren say the campaign said they want to talk about issues. Well, then talk about issues.
TAPPER: And Xochitl, I mean, the Ramaswamy campaign was asked for comment, and they basically started going into questions about Amy Acton. It would have been very easy for them to say, we have no idea who did that and we disavow it. And the ad still would have been out there. But they didn't do that.
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, they actually-- you're right, Jake. They leaned into it and said that they should -- they asked voters to consider what her strange mother had said, and instead Vivek Ramaswamy could have taken the higher road here. Actually, to be honest with you, all Republicans should be taking the higher road here, just as David said.
TAPPER: Yes.
HINOJOSA: Yes, I see David. They should be doing exactly what David has said here. And when you have a victim of sexual abuse who was, you know, left her parents or her mother at the age of 12, that is something that I am sure is, you know, that she remembers. And that was a big deal in her life and caused her a lot of pain. Just watching that interview brought me heartache.
And so everyone, all Republicans, should be coming out and disavowing it.
To be honest with you, this just goes to moral character in terms of Vivek Ramaswamy. If he can't disavow whoever did this video and speak out against it, then he is not fit to serve. And so I think this is a larger issue and it's going to backfire him at the end of the day.
TAPPER: Well, whether or not he wins, this is going to be a section of his obituary, whatever that may be. It's -- this is the kind of thing that just leaves a stain on somebody's record, again, whether or not he wins.
Let's turn to the Ohio Senate race. Today, President Trump talked about the Republican Senator Jon Husted, who is running for reelection against former Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This is our candidate who nobody, I guess, actually people from Ohio, a small group of sports, big sports fans knew, but we found out about the real man. And you probably saw the polls. He's now leading and he was down by quite a bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[17:15:17]
TAPPER: This is after Trump went to Ohio and started effusively braving -- praising Senator Husted's body, including his rear end. We should note, I don't know exactly what he's talking about. A new CNN poll of polls average, including four recent surveys of likely voters find Sherrod Brown is basically has a narrow advantage over Husted, 49 percent to 44 percent, basically within the margin of error. It's still a very, very close race. But I haven't seen any public polls showing that after Trump praised his body, Husted, surged in the poll.
So, Xochitl, what do you think of it all?
HINOJOSA: I don't think that he is surging in the polls. If this race is tightening, it's not because Donald Trump commented on his bum. It is because the GOP is spending $317 million in the state against Sherrod Brown right now. And they have the advantage in terms of spend in the state and that is what is causing it to completely tighten.
The other thing that is happening in the state is Donald Trump's approval rating. I mean, if you are someone like Sherrod Brown right now and when you're talking about cost of living, the issues of data centers, all of those things are what is giving Sherrod Brown the upper hand here. And I would say that if there is anything Trump is a vulnerability in that state because of his low approval rating.
TAPPER: So let -- David, let's turn to New Hampshire. John Sununu, former senator, now the Senate Republican nominee in New Hampshire, running against Congressman Chris Pappas in an open seat. He's tried to distance himself a bit from Trump in a new ad. He does have the president's endorsement. Here's a clip where he talks about Pappas and Trump.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN SUNUNU, (R) NEW HAMPSHIRE SENATE CANDIDATE: The way Chris Pappas tells it, I'm President Trump's long lost son. I've never even met the man. When the president's policies are bad for New Hampshire, I'll oppose them just like I oppose the war in Iran, and the trade war with Canada. That's New Hampshire independent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So that's a pretty significant distancing in a purple state. What do you think, David?
URBAN: Yes, listen, I'm bullish on both these races. I think Ohio structurally favors Republicans. Jake, Ohio to me is like Pennsylvania without Philadelphia, right? So I give the advantage to Ohio. Our own Harry Enten has said Ohio is one of those states in the past three or four elections, Republicans about kicked their coverage by six to nine points on Election Day.
That would put us squarely in the victory in the lane there. And I really like John Sununo's chances. You've got the governor at the top of the ticket. Very, very popular governor running probably 10 points ahead. Chris Pappas is a weak candidate.
John Sununo, who's been in the Senate before, the Sununu brand is very strong. I, you know, I think very highly of him. So I think, you know, we're going to win in New Hampshire.
I'm not being naive here. I think we're going to win in New Hampshire. I think we're going to win in Ohio. I think a lot of these races we're winning. I like the fact that we are -- you know, have the Democrats on their heels in Minnesota.
I am not so sanguine about the Senate as many. I do think there's obviously -- look, we're pushing a big rock up a hill in Texas. We've got some candidate issues there. I think Roger Marshall is going to have a tough time in Kansas unnecessarily. But overall, I like our chances and I like our chances to states, Ohio and New Hampshire very much so.
TAPPER: All right, thanks to both of you. Really appreciate it.
We're staying on the campaign trail. Heading down to Texas next as David was just describing, that's where CNN's John King is talking to voters in areas that have deep, deep red for decades. Are there any alliance-alliances shifting now in these midterms?
[17:18:48]
Plus, we're also going to go live to Madison Square Garden for a moment. I've been looking forward to for months, especially in the last couple of weeks. LeBron James making his debut this evening with the Philadelphia 76ers as they face off against the reigning NBA champions on the kickoff. The tip off for NBA season. Stick with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, early voting is underway in Texas and one of the many key races we're tracking is the Texas Senate contest. The latest CNN poll of polls in Texas finding averages of the last few polls finds no clear leader in the U.S. Senate race between Democratic State Representative James Talarico and Republican Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton. Among likely voters, 50 percent support Talarico, 47 percent back Paxton.
For his "All Over the Map" series, CNN's John King recently visited a Texas district once considered an easy win for Republicans and now a toss-up.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Corpus Christi Bay, southeast Texas, a spot on the map that was supposed to be a safe harbor for Republicans this year.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm calling on behalf of James Talarico, Gina Hinojosa and Democrats down the ballot.
KING (voice-over): Supposed to be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're asking for your support for your vote.
KING (voice-over): It's crunch time and Nueces County Democrats are bursting with energy, believing even ruby red Texas might be part of a giant midterm message.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Connect with each other, figure out what we do, need to do ahead.
KING (voice-over): The governor's race is tight. So is a nasty Senate clash. And the House race here in Texas 34, a toss-up, too, despite election year redistricting Texas Republicans thought would paint it red.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where did all the money go? It's like who's getting rich and where is it going? Is it the oil tycoons? They're all getting rich.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody's getting it.
KING (voice-over): The politics bar is in the slice of Corpus Christi added to the redrawn 34th, four friends around the table, two Democrats and two Republicans.
KING: So let's skip the parties and the names for a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
KING: Raise your hand if you think things need to change. OK. So that's everybody at the table.
Republicans Milton Reyna and Richard Contreras in a very different mood from our first chat here eight months ago. This is Reyna's bar. Business is slow.
MILTON REYNA, TEXAS VOTER: I don't trust what's being said right now. I think we've been told the same thing over and over again and we haven't seen any results, any action from it. And yes, I am disappointed.
[17:25:07]
Contreras is in real estate. Business is down, hurt by high interest rates and higher costs for just about everything.
RICHARD CONTRERAS, TEXAS VOTER: Our war is the problem, to be honest with you. I think we're struggling with that and we need to get out of that. We need to finish it and move on.
KING (voice-over): Still on Team Abbott for governor.
CONTRERAS: I like Abbott.
REYNA: I like Abbott, too.
KING (voice-over): But Republican Senate nominee Ken Paxton turns their stomachs.
KING: You're a Republican and you're having a hard time in a race that could determine which party controls the United States Senate.
CONTRERAS: I need to be an American first, I think honestly. And I have to make that decision based on character. And right now Paxton's character is just not doing it. I am 80 percent not voting for Paxton.
REYNA: I -- I'm not saying I won't vote for Talarico, but I agree with Richard. I'm probably about 80 percent that I won't -- that I won't vote for Paxton.
KING: Does undecided mean you might skip that race when you go through the ballot?
CONTRERAS: It means that I may ask my wife, who are you voting for?
KING (voice-over): Both likely Republican for House, but hardly enthusiastic.
REYNA: The Republicans had full control and we haven't done anything with any of that. So is sticking with a Republican Congress and House and Senate still the right -- the right thing to do? I don't know.
KING (voice-over): This side of the table is excited.
KING: Does this time feel actually different, that it's possible as opposed to a dream?
RAMON HERRERA, TEXAS VOTER: It does.
ADELITA CAVADA, TEXAS VOTER: I think it does different.
HERRERA: It does. It does.
KING (voice-over): Ramon Herrera is betting on a big swing in the Latino vote.
HERRERA: You stop trying to promote everything that he's doing. It's not working out.
CAVADA: Yes, same.
KING (voice-over): And that Adelita Cavada sees another positive for Democrats.
CAVADA: I've seen young people more excited this time online, in person. Younger people are starting to show up and I think that that's what's different this time.
I have hope that Texas will turn through, but I -- I'm dubious.
KING (voice-over): John King, CNN, Corpus Christi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: And our thanks to John King for that report.
We're learning some heartbreaking new details tonight about two of the latest victims of Putin's war on Ukraine, a schoolteacher and her one- year-old daughter. Will these latest attacks convince President Trump that he should stop siding with Putin? That story's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:31:49]
TAPPER: We have some breaking news for you in our World Lead. New reporting in "The Wall Street Journal" reveals that trillionaire Elon Musk was the one behind the slowdown of the military version of his Starlink Internet service, which Ukraine uses to run some of its military equipment. That slowdown only deepened the mistrust between the United States and Ukraine last week.
Meanwhile, in Norway today, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said the U.S. was once again sharing intelligence with the Ukraine, information Zelenskyy says is crucial to warning civilians about incoming Russian attacks. And now we're learning more about the Ukrainian mom and baby that were killed in the Russian strike on Kharkiv yesterday. Baby Angelina was just over one-year-old. Her mom Inna was a schoolteacher. Ukrainian officials shared gut wrenching photos of the girl lifeless in her stroller.
Zelenskyy says that Inna was walking through a popular park with her baby when the Iranian maid Shahed drone struck an attack that he called, "pure atrocity." A reminder that after this girl and her mom were killed by Russia, Trump said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, have you agreed to a trilateral meeting with President Putin and Xi to talk about Ukraine?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, but I would do it. Not so much for Ukraine because Russia, frankly has been fine on Ukraine. They haven't been doing much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Russia has been fine in Ukraine, they haven't been doing much, the President said. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh joins us now. And Nick, Special Envoy Witkoff heads to Russia tomorrow. Is he going to be able to abridge Russia's maximalist demands for Ukraine's desire to keep their territory?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: It's a tough ask, isn't it? I mean, even before his arrival, the foreign minister of Russia Sergey Lavrov suggested he'll listen to what Steve Witkoff and virtually joining Jared Kushner will have to say. But Russia is unlikely to make political concessions and that's always been the case, frankly. A European official in Oslo I was speaking today said it doesn't really matter what plan they come up with. It's ultimately about what Russia is willing to go along with, which so far, as you say is ultimately maximalist demands.
But even Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who spent 45 minutes on the phone with Volodymyr Zelenskyy today of Ukraine, reminded people in a recent interview about how Russia wants the remaining 11 percent of Donetsk and that's ultimately the last defensive line for Ukraine before Russia has a straight shot at Kyiv. So at least somebody in the White House, it seems clear of the stakes here for Kyiv.
But that same phone call too, President Zelenskyy harked back to as something he hoped for better news about their access to Starlink and Patriot interceptors potentially in the hours ahead. Also too, Zelenskyy said they hoped they would hear from Witkoff in the next 48 hours after his visit to Moscow, perhaps to see how whatever he's bringing with him was potentially received. He is apparently on paper bringing some kind of formation of security guarantees for Ukraine. Quite what's being offered in exchange though for that unclear, Jake.
TAPPER: And Nick, we're also hearing that Zelenskyy and Secretary of State Marco Rubio had a conversation and talked about Patriot missiles for the U.S. Made air defense system that Ukraine needs.
[17:34:57]
WALSH: Yes, I mean, look, this is the ultimate, most important task. When I met Zelenskyy in August, he talks about how every morning he's on the phone trying to get more of these interceptors. It's the U.S. that have the largest stockpile. They make them. They have been frankly holding them back to replenish their own stocks after what's been happening in the Middle East. But clearly desperate needs never more acute than it has been for Ukraine. They appear to have had a recent relief, possibly from European supplies. But recently we reported they were down to zero again.
And continually day by day trying to find one or two to intercept Russian ballistic missiles. There are ballistic warnings over Kyiv today across Ukraine, one dead, 18 injured in Kyiv. That threat does not stop. And this prevarication over early warning for ballistic missiles, the interceptors Starlink access exceptionally complex at this stage for Ukraine, how they bring things back to how they were today about putting things back on track. But clearly that seems a complex move right now.
TAPPER: Yes, indeed. Nick Paton Walsh, thanks so much.
We're going Out of Office for the next installment of my digital series, long form conversations out of the office. This time it's North Carolina Senator Thom Tillis as we visit the trailer park where he grew up and his former high school. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:40:40]
TAPPER: We're back with the Politics Lead as President Trump heads to North Carolina to campaign for his handpicked GOP candidate for Senate, Michael Whatley. We wanted to learn a little bit more about the senator whose life the president has made a lot more difficult, Republican Thom Tillis, who is exiting the Senate. It's the latest installment in my CNN digital series Out of Office, and in which we talk to both Republicans and Democrats in some of their favorite places about their life experiences, childhoods and their struggles and successes.
Senator took us -- took me to where he grew up, opening up about his humble beginnings, his thoughts on the GOP and why he says he shuns sycophants.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: So were you in this same trailer park for seven years or no, there was a different.
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): No, it was this one. I didn't feel poor. I mean, we were like, right on. That's why I've said it was a perfect life experiment for being on the economic bubble. I mean, we were, you know, when you lived here, you obviously had less money to pay the bills and, you know, we always had money. I mean, we -- because we worked. So I think a part of maybe why we didn't experience feeling like we were short on money, except for that stretch where we were starving to death, is that we were always working. So we had cash flow.
TAPPER: Your first job was walking a cat though, right?
TILLIS: Yes, that was random coinage and biscuits.
TAPPER: I've had cats in my life. We have one now. Like, I don't know that you can walk them.
TILLIS: You know what I've always said a domestic animal's behavior is a reflection of their owners. TAPPER: And did you just get used to the sound of this growing up?
TILLIS: What, what sound?
TAPPER: How often did this happen? How often do you hear this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot.
TAPPER: A lot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Several times a day.
TAPPER: All the time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
TAPPER: The idea of not being surrounded by sycophants as the best way to lead, like, and that -- and then the worst way to lead is just being by surrounded by people who just tell you everything you want to hear.
TILLIS: Yes. You're Wonderful.
TAPPER: Did you learn that from your first boss, Fain?
TILLIS: Yes.
TAPPER: When he had those glasses with the flowers on them.
TILLIS: Yes.
TAPPER: And he called you in, tell that story.
TILLIS: You know what? It --
TAPPER: What's his -- what was his name?
TILLIS: His name was Estal Fain. So I moved to Chattanooga by myself and this guy doing my first annual review. I come in. I'm one of the junior people. A lot of the senior people have gone into the day. Go in his office. He's wearing glasses I'd never seen before throughout the entire.
TAPPER: With flowers on them.
TILLIS: Flowers on them, little dots and stuff. They were dark. They were like horn rim sort of glasses. But he said, you got any questions for me? I said, what is with these glasses? And he burst out laughing. He said, I have worn these throughout the whole day. Most of the people have been quiet.
A few people even complimented me. They're my girlfriend's glasses. And I was just curious if anybody would even say anything. I'm the only one that did.
TAPPER: That's a big lesson for you, right? TILLIS: Yes.
TAPPER: And you do it to your staff.
TILLIS: Well, what I was trying to tell people is, my gosh, when you work with or for someone, fix their collar. I mean, I'll go around. If I see a complete stranger with a collar out, I'll tell them, or a zipper down. But, you know, I test them. And one of the things I did is, you know that sticky sort of --
TAPPER: When you get like a new ATM card or something?
TILLIS: No ATM card. Well, if you roll up a good part of that, it looks like something that may come out of your nostril. So I literally, like, stuck one.
TAPPER: And then sticky.
TILLIS: This was several. Yes, yes. It's perfect prop. So I -- this was years ago. I'd stuck one in there and have discussion with people and just see if anybody would say anything. And I'd say something to the, well, I'm going to run out here, you know, like, go back into the public.
TAPPER: Talk to the T.V. cameras.
TILLIS: Yes. And I go, seriously, you were going to let me go out of this room with what looks like an enormous booger in my nose because you were uncomfortable with telling me that? Do you know the consequences of me going out there? And so I was just saying, guys, you know, get over this -- I -- get over the stigma of telling somebody, hey, your zipper's down.
TAPPER: Yes.
TILLIS: You're actually doing them a favor. I'm trying to prevent people from being embarrassed in the same way I'm trying to prevent this president from being embarrassed or go down a path he shouldn't go down. I'm saying, Mr. President. Let me help you. Let me give you an idea of how this plays out politically and operationally versus some of these people that haven't -- they haven't spent a day in a Democratic body.
[17:45:00]
TAPPER: And now his historically low approval rating, consumer confidence is down a lot.
TILLIS: Yes.
TAPPER: And 77 percent of the country thinks we're on the wrong track.
TILLIS: Right. Other than that we're trending in the right direction.
TAPPER: Other than that, things are good. You think it's a bloodbath coming for a Republican? TILLIS: I think it's going to be rough. We have time to overcome, I think, some of the problems in the Senate. I personally don't see any scenario where we can keep the majorities in the House. I'd like to fight for it. It's not like I'm giving up. I just -- I don't see the path.
TAPPER (voice-over): The senator is a lot more candid as he nears the end of his term, including in his new memoir, "How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents: The Trouble with Sycophants, Courage, Outsourcing and Partisan Groupthink." Tillis is not seeking reelection.
TAPPER: I saw a poll the other day about why the Republican Party's having trouble in farm country in Iowa and Kansas and whatever, and why there are opportunities for Democrats there. And it's because these people just see that rural hospitals are closing, like you predicted.
TILLIS: I told everyone last year, if you look at the bill, the notices for Medicare cuts first. I didn't really focus much on SNAP because I was fundamentally OK with it, but I did have a problem with the timing. SNAP cuts, Medicaid cuts are literally going out this month. And whether they're right or wrong is irrelevant. It's whether or not the change can be absorbed and not have a political consequence.
TAPPER: And we saw that with DOGE, with Elon Musk laughing about the cuts to --
TILLIS: Yes.
TAPPER: -- what was it? Ebola?
TILLIS: Oh, yes.
ELON MUSK, INDUSTRIALIST: One of the things we accidentally canceled, very briefly was Ebola.
TILLIS: We accidentally shut down an Ebola program. I didn't find that the least but funny. In fact, it made me mad.
TAPPER (voice-over): Before moving to the trailer park, Tillis and his family lived in a house just up the hill from Country Meadows.
TAPPER: You planted this tree?
TILLIS: In December of 1973.
TAPPER: How old were you?
TILLIS: So if you were to -- I would have been 13 because it was December of 1973.
TAPPER: Yes.
TILLIS: That we moved here. TAPPER: That's pretty cool.
TILLIS: Yes.
TAPPER: Big tree.
TILLIS: Yes. I think it was the nicest house we ever.
TAPPER: Nicest house you ever lived.
TILLIS: And it was new, man. I mean, my God, it was new.
TAPPER: You know what reminded me, it was interesting when you said you looked at the in the Big, Beautiful Bill, you looked at the no tax on tips from the perspective of when you lived here. You had a job as a waiter, and you also had a job at a warehouse. You thought, why? Why would waiter Thom Tillis get the no tax on tips? But warehouse employee Thom Tillis doesn't get that benefit.
TILLIS: And even worse --
TAPPER: Yes.
TILLIS: -- waiter Thom Tillis is paying for our warehouse worker, Thom Tillis is paying for waiter, Thom Tillis tax evading, got to come from somewhere.
TAPPER: Right.
TILLIS: Yes. That's what I mean about people. You know, just -- that's inherently unfair. It's gimmicky, I think, and not sustainable, which is why they're set to expire in '28.
TAPPER: Yes. The no tax on tips is going to expire?
TILLIS: Yes. All of those things expire. The Social Security, all that expires in '28.
TAPPER: Oh, man.
TILLIS: And I'm just saying, guys, you know, our state motto is esse quam videri to be rather than to seem. This is not a permanent tax break. It's something that'll go away. What they need is not maybe a few dollars off on tax on tips. They need an economy that's thriving, that's driving their wages up.
TAPPER: Right.
TAPPER (voice-over): Tillis famously voted against President Trump's one Big, Beautiful Bill Act, which included no tax on tips. He says he did so because he knew the bill would ultimately hurt North Carolina's rural communities. Today, the senator has a couple other examples where he wishes he had voted no.
TAPPER: I know you've expressed regret for voting for Hegseth and for RFK Jr. But you also explained while those confirmation hearings were going on, you went to the people on their committees. You went to the three doctors on the health committee, and you went to Republicans on armed services and said, I'll join you if you're going to oppose these guys.
TILLIS: Yes. I said, if you come out unanimous, then I'm going to support it. But if one of you all express a problem, I'll be right there with you. I need to understand, you know, your basis, but my guess is it's sound. I'll support you.
TAPPER: But you wish that you had voted against them at this?
TILLIS: Hegseth, definitely. Now, I believe that whatever cost we would have incurred from just tanking Hegseth's nomination would have been far less than the damage he's done over the last two years and the damage for the President, by the way. But Hegseth has done damage to this President's brand. I mean, if nothing else, he's -- after Epic Fury, which was well executed, we've just been meandering in Iran, and it's become consequential to the election next month.
TAPPER: Yes. So many people oppose the war, but also don't see a way out of it 100 percent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: And you can look for my entire conversation with Senator Thom Tillis on the CNN all access app or online@cnn.com/watch.
Up next, we're heading to the heart of New York City, where CNN's Omar Jimenez has the best assignment of the day. Omar?
[17:50:05]
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Hard to think of a bigger stage to start the NBA season. Here you got the defending champs, the New York Knicks up against the 76ers with oh, yes, Lebron James, who's going to be making his debut. We expect more on that coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Our Sports Lead now, the reigning NBA champions, the New York Knickerbockers, will take on my newly star studded Philadelphia 76ers at Madison Square Garden in the next hour with LeBron James making his Sixers debut. CNN's Omar Jimenez is enviably inside MSG. And Omar, this is an historic night on both sides of the court.
[17:55:02]
JIMENEZ: It really is. I mean, look, the Knicks are defending their title, something they haven't done in more than 50 years. And then for the 76ers, we're seeing the debut of one LeBron James, the NBA's all- time leading scorer, all-time minutes played, games played, trying to take the Sixers to the next level.
Now, obviously the excitement is still here for Knicks fans. Everyone here in the building, they've got these NBA Champions shirt ready to go. Keep that spirit high. But I was talking to some of the Knicks fans earlier. I just want you to listen to this guy because I think he summed up the feelings for Knicks fans right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since we won a chip last year, the NBA been scrambling. You got so much people done got traded to other teams. That's what we do, huh? We messed the NBA up so bad that they, everybody got switched over. Not alone 76ers, they went and got LeBron, they went and got Brown. Who else you want go get Jesus. He ain't going to save you. Still Knicks in five.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: So they're still saying Knicks in five even after all this time. But one thing we've been watching for, one, LeBron James now warming up right there at the top of the key in his new 76ers digs again, trying to get this Sixers team to that, over that threshold and maybe do something that the Knicks were able to do. And one thing that's actually working in their favor on that front is over the last eight seasons in the NBA, we've seen eight different champions, which works against the Knicks here for trying to repeat. But it gives the opportunity for a team like the Sixers, especially coming out of the Eastern Conference and especially for fans of the Sixers. I don't know if there are any of those out there, Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Omar Jimenez inside Madison Square Garden. Thank you so much. And go Sixers.
We're going to head to Battleground North Carolina next where President Trump's about to hold a rally. Stick with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
