Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip

Biden And Trump Prepare For High-Stakes CNN Debate; First Look At CNN's Debate And What The Candidates See; Trump Advisers Say, 2020 Debate Interruptions May Have Cost Him; "NewsNight" Talks About Hillary Clinton's Predictions Of Trump's "Patterns"; Abby Phillip And Political Panel Discuss The Upcoming 2024 Presidential Debate. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired June 26, 2024 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Until tomorrow, there has never been a general election presidential debate in Atlanta.

[22:00:05]

All of that is going to change, of course, during the debate right here on CNN's historic Techwood campus, where Ted Turner launched the world's first 24-hour T.V. news network back in 1980. There is so much rich history here with a lot more to be written and, of course, what a special moment just to be here to witness it all.

Thank you so much for joining us. CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip starts now.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: The Biden plan to run it back. That's tonight on NewsNight.

Good evening. I'm Abby Philip here in Atlanta, Georgia. And tomorrow night, the country will tune into CNN for the most important political event of the calendar so far and possibly for all of this campaign, the CNN presidential debate. In just a few moments, a play by play of how exactly it will look and work on that stage where it'll all happen. And that includes a paint by numbers demo of the microphones and what it'll look like and sound like when one of the candidates breaches the rules that they've all agreed to and tries to talk over his opponent.

But, first, the news tonight, Joe Biden plans to talk past Donald Trump and talk straight to you, the American. Voter sources are telling CNN that the president he wants to recreate some key moments from that 2020 debate when he bypassed the moderators, and he addressed the American people directly. Advisers say that that strategy is more important than ever this year. It is no secret, voters are less than enthusiastic about the choices that they face this year, and it's all about making it personal.

Speaking of personal, though, the Biden campaign is also preparing for Trump to go there with attacks on his family and, of course, on Hunter Biden.

Joining me now, one of the best sourced reporters and a longtime Trump watcher and biographer, Maggie Haberman of The New York Times. Maggie, what do you know tonight about how Trump is preparing in these last 24 hours before this debate?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, I think that Trump is more locked down and drilled down on preparing for this debate than, you know, his advisers have suggested publicly, or than he has suggested publicly. He has been engaging in policy sessions with a wide range of advisers and senators and people he's close to essentially to refresh his, his talking points about his administration and the accomplishments he wants to highlight and then also to figure out how to parry certain attacks.

You know, he does not do debate prep, as we understand it, the way that President Biden does. For instance, President Biden does a pretty traditional debate prep, somebody behind a podium, somebody playing Donald Trump. As far as we know, there is nobody doing that now in terms of Biden, but I do think that there is a focus on how to parry aggressive questions from various directions.

PHILLIP: Yes. And tonight, M.J. Lee is reporting that one of the things that the Biden camp is preparing for, and this probably should come as no surprise, is the likelihood that Trump will start to attack his family. The thing is, though, Maggie, Biden was prepared for such an attack in their last debate. So, do you think we can expect to hear anything new from Trump on this front?

HABERMAN: Look, I think it is certainly possible that Trump will talk about Hunter Biden's criminal conviction, I think, especially if Trump's criminal conviction comes up in a way where Trump then will say he was attacked. It's impossible that Trump's criminal conviction is not going to come up. Hunter Biden is not running for president, but Trump and his associates are very aware that it is a sore topic for President Biden. And I think they're going to look for opportunities to try to disrupt his performance or get under his skin.

You are correct that in 2020 he was prepared for such an attack once before and that was specifically on Hunter Biden's drug use. I think this would be a little bit different. I'm also not sure how President Biden will react to that attack, I think, if it comes. I think that's a big question.

PHILLIP: Yes, I'm sure it's something also they're preparing him to deal with from coming from Trump. They have also landed or I wonder if you hear that they have landed on answers to questions about the January 6th insurrection. That's something that reportedly they've been trying to come up with some kind of Goldilocks solution to in debate prep. Have they?

HABERMAN: They have been talking about how they're going to answer various questions related not just to the attack by a pro-Trump mob on the Capitol building during the certification of President Biden's Electoral College win, but also how to address questions about the former president's months of election lies, in which he claimed that the 2020 race was stolen from him, how they're going to answer questions where President Biden is going to describe Donald Trump as a threat to democracy. [22:05:19]

And so they had been workshopping answers to those kinds of things.

I mean, among the things that they had looked at, and this was about two weeks ago, was talking about the supposed internet censorship or efforts to regulate social media by the government. That involves the suit that was tossed by the Supreme Court today. So, I think they're still trying to figure out how to answer some of those questions.

PHILLIP: That's very interesting. So, what about Trump's family? Do you expect to see Melania Trump at the debate tomorrow night?

HABERMAN: I do not. It's possible that will change, but I do not expect to see her now.

PHILLIP: Wow. What do you hear about Trump's thinking about the vice presidential choice that he faces? I mean, I think it's not hard to miss that they are everywhere this week. This week seems to be kind of an intense ramping up of their presence on the airwaves in their tryouts to be his running mate. Many of them will be here in Atlanta. Is he close to a decision? Could it come in the coming days?

HABERMAN: I think it will definitionally come in the coming days you know, simply because he's going to hit the hard deadline of when he has to nominate somebody. He has been clearly not in a huge hurry to make this decision or make this announcement.

I will say, he hadn't said it at this point in 2016 either what he was going to do. He waited until a little closer to the convention. He's got a couple of, you know, benchmark dates coming up, Abby, one of which is his sentencing on July 11th. And so I think that there is -- in the Manhattan criminal case, I think there is going to be some activity around or before that, most likely.

PHILLIP: Maggie Haberman, thank you as always for bringing that reporting to us.

HABERMAN: Thank you. So how will those muted microphones actually work? Well, my colleague, Phil Mattingly and Victor Blackwell, will explain the rules of what happens if one of the candidates tries to interrupt the other.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to the set of the CNN presidential debate. We want to give our viewers a sense of the rules of the debate, so that when they watch it, they can understand how President Biden and President Trump will be engaging with each other. Tomorrow night, just after 9:00 P.M. Eastern, President Biden will enter from the right side of your screen. President Trump will enter from the left side of your screen. The podiums are eight feet apart. Directly across from them, the moderators, CNN's Jake Tapper and Dana Bash.

Now, a reminder, this is a television studio. There's no audience. Candidates will have two minutes to answer questions, and one minute for responses and rebuttals. At the moderator's discretion, there may be an additional minute for follow-ups, clarifications, or responses.

So, how does a candidate know how much time is left to speak? Attached to the cameras in the studio and in the candidate's field of view are the timing lights. When the lights show yellow, there are 15 seconds left in a candidate's answer or response. When the lights flash red, there are 5 seconds left. And when the display is solid red, the time is up. At that point, the candidate's microphone will be turned off, and the other candidate will have their microphone turned on.

My colleague, Victor Blackwell, has more on that.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Phil. If we go behind the podiums, you can see two green lights. When they're on, they signal to the candidate his microphone is on. When the green lights are off, they signal to the candidate. His microphone is off. Now I want to give you a sense of what it will look like for viewers at home if a candidate whose microphone is off interrupts a candidate whose microphone is on.

So, I'm standing at one podium and I'll ask Phil to come in and take the other podium. And so let's say I'm answering a question. My light is green and I'm speaking. Phil's microphone is off and his green lights are not illuminated. He's going to interrupt me as I'm speaking and this is what it will sound like. My volume remains constant while Phil's interruption can be difficult to understand.

MATTINGLY: Let's try the opposite. My microphone is now on. Victor's microphone is off. And he's going to interrupt me. My volume remains constant, while Victor's interruption can be difficult to understand.

Now, CNN's production team has shared this demonstration with the campaigns earlier today, and we're sharing it with you, our viewers, so everyone fully understands how tomorrow night will work. Now, we should note by agreeing to participate in this debate, both campaigns and candidates have also agreed to abide by these rules.

The CNN presidential debate airs live tomorrow night at 9:00 P.M. Eastern.

PHILLIP: Our thanks to Phil and Victor for that explanation.

Joining me now is Philippe Reines, former Hillary Clinton spokesman, who's also cosplayed as Donald Trump during her 2016 debate prep. Also with us, Mike Dubke, he served as Donald Trump's White House communications director, who has also cosplayed as no one.

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I know it's late night.

[22:10:00]

PHILLIP: So, let's start with the mics, because, I mean, this is going to be the thing, I think, tomorrow you can. You can see in that demonstration, you actually hear necessarily -- you cannot understand what the other person is saying. But if Donald Trump is yelling, it's going to be kind of visually very jarring. PHILIPPE REINES, FORMER HILLARY CLINTON SPOKESMAN: Yes, I mean, that was fascinating and jarring to watch. No offense to Victor, I'm not sure he was doing a full Donald Trump to see if he could be heard. If anyone wants me to try it, we can mute the mic now. Yes, I feel bad for the tech guys. They're just going to be on pins and needles.

But it's going to make a big difference. It's going to make a big difference for obvious reasons. Anyone who saw 2020 knows that that could not happen again. I think it's actually going to make a pretty big difference to your colleagues, to Jake Tapper and Dana Bash, because it'll give them some breathing room and some just peace and quiet for a minute to process what they just heard to decide if they need to follow up. If they want to ask a follow-up question, they want to correct something which was impossible four years ago.

Everyone is clearly focused on it. There'll be a fair number of people on Twitter, I imagine, lip reading.

PHILLIP: Yes. Because it was Trump -- I mean, I remember in the trial that he just went through, he was in a courtroom mumbling under his breath. But it was audible to the judge --

DUBKE: Still heard across the courtroom. The other, the other part of this is if the microphone -- we're all talking about when the microphone's off, but I do fully expect there is an opportunity when the microphone is on if there is a question or a question, three questions back that President Trump, Donald Trump, received from Tapper or Bash that he's going to go back to that. And if he's not having an argument with President Biden, he may be having an argument with the moderators.

So, I think that, I think the microphone being off, as many people have talked about, is actually going to benefit Trump. But there's so many other factors that are going into this debate, especially with no audience.

PHILLIP: I want to talk about this reporting from CNN about what the Biden campaign is preparing for in terms of the attacks on his family. I want to play what happened back in 2020. I referenced this when we were talking to Maggie when this came up, when Hunter Biden came up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: My son, like a lot of people, like a lot of people, you know, at home, had a drug problem. He's overtaken it. He's fixed it. He's worked on it, and I'm proud of him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So, I mean, a couple things there, the direct to the microphone, that's exactly the kind of moment they want to recreate. But turning it on its head, I mean, do you think there will be an opportunity to do that this time around?

REINES: Yes, I mean, you have to. You're going to be talking to somewhere between 75, 90, maybe 100 million people. You might not talk to that larger audience any time for the rest of the campaign. You want to make sure that you are giving them your best argument to camera that you are saying what you say every day, but that you're saying as compelling as possible with the guy over here showing why he's the contrast that shouldn't be.

Now, that's obviously very hard to do, especially when you have a Donald Trump who might be throwing the most vicious personal stuff at you. But what President Biden is doing -- and let's not forget something. President Biden debated President Trump twice in 2020, and while Mike will disagree, though he's muted, President Biden beat him both times. The reason we have muting was such a calamity because it was Donald Trump interrupting speaking over, and it did not redound to his favor.

DUBKE: My two green lights are on now, so I get to go. The difference between 2020 and this time is that Biden did not have a record to run on. There are other things to attack Joe Biden on in 2024 than in 2020. We can talk inflation. We can talk the border. We can talk chaos around the world. I think there's going to be enough other topics for Donald Trump to talk about that he doesn't need to bring up Hunter Biden or any of the other cases.

So, we're making a big deal about this and I know that at rallies it gets brought up but there's enough other material and I'm sure his team is prepping him to talk about Biden's record this time.

REINES: Well, I mean, 2016, obviously, President Trump, at the time, came in, he had eight years of Obama Biden to talk about it. And, yes, now there is a sort of very odd neighboring administration where the last seven years but each other, which is something we haven't seen in 134 years.

PHILLIP: That's one of the many things that makes this extremely unusual. And I would also say, Mike, hearing you talk, I'm reminded of the best laid plans, you know, let's how this goes.

REINES: Mike Tyson said everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

PHILLIP: Exactly. Everyone, Philippe, Mike, you guys stick around for us.

[22:15:00]

Up next, we're going to take a look at the 2020 tape of Biden and Trump on their debate tendencies.

Plus, see what happened inside of an Atlanta barbershop when Trump started to brag about his mugshot. Stacey Abrams is here and she'll join me live.

And two major news stories that may play a role tomorrow night, the Supreme Court breach and a disturbing revelation about migrants coming into the United States.

This is CNN special live coverage live from Atlanta. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: They can, they do, they will, under my proposal.

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's not what you've said, and it's not what your party has said.

BIDEN: That is simply a lie.

TRUMP: Your party doesn't say it. Your party wants to go socialist.

BIDEN: My party is me. Right now, I am the Democratic Party.

TRUMP: And they're going to dominate you, Joe. You know that.

BIDEN: I am the Democratic Party right now. The platform of the Democratic Party is what I, in fact, approved of, what I approved of.

[22:20:01]

Now, here's the deal. The deal is that --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Getting some flashbacks? While we dug up that tape, that was one of the last mash-ups between Trump and Biden because we want to see what they might do the next time around.

Our panel has expanded here outside of the debate room. What did you make of that? I mean, I re-watched part of that recently, and I was like, wow, yes.

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, the first thing I noticed is President Biden actually seemed to be in a pretty good mood in that first debate. He was smiling a lot, he was laughing a lot. He was kind of like shooting Donald Trump like he was an annoyance right up until the moment he told him, will, you just shut up, man? I think he was saying what so many Americans were feeling in that moment, they wanted Donald Trump to stop.

PHILLIP: And the lack of self control from Trump, we won't see --

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We will not see that tomorrow. I can guarantee that. I've spoken with enough people on the campaign. And I know Nia is over there laughing at me, but I'm telling you, Nia, it's going to be a different version of Trump tomorrow. I mean, look, he's been preparing for this. The former president recognizes and understands how pivotal this moment is. And he also understands that this is a litmus test, not about the past, but the American people want to know who's best capable of leading the country for the next four years.

And the reality is, if we base our judgment off of all of the available data as of today, they do not believe that person is Joe Biden. And President Trump has to make his case tomorrow to the American people that he is the best option.

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: And what's going to be different from this debate than we've seen from other debates is, the reality is we're not going to see these real in depth conversations about how they're going to save social security, or how about like tax policy is going to change. We're going to hear a lot of these loud, argumentative fights about who has the better policy. But we're not getting into the weeds about how we're going to fix all the ills of the world.

PHILLIP: They're also not really going to be talking to each other. No. That is unusual for debates.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: And you saw a little bit of that in the second debate because there was sort of a muted microphone for part of it, and I think this is good for Donald Trump. I mean, you're arguing that sort of Donald Trump on his best behavior is going to show up tomorrow. I think he is going to be contained and constrained by these muted mics, because he's not going to be able to interrupt Joe Biden.

But I agree, it is. I think one thing to watch is And I probably shouldn't say this on CNN, but is it going to be boring, right? Because there were moments in that second debate, at some point, Joe Biden was like looking at his watch because there was a sort of muted tone to that second debate. It was so different from that.

PHILLIP: When everybody is so on guard and can produce almost like the opposite results.

DUBKE: I actually question whether or not it's going to matter what they say in the positive. We're so far in front of the actual election in November. I'm almost More concerned or I'm curious of watching what the gaffe is, what the mistake is, what are we going to be talking about in the spin room and then on Friday? And what is it that's going to set up for the next part of this debate? I think part of the Biden campaign's plan of having a June debate was to reinvigorate their own campaign. Well, they better hope that Biden doesn't trip himself up tomorrow night.

PHILLIP: Let me let me read this, Katy Waldman from the New Yorker, here's how she described them as not only the oldest major party candidates, but the two singularly inarticulate politicians who have an adversarial relationship to language, as they do to each other. Overstating it?

REINES: Well, I hate to spoil it, but I can tell you right now what we're all going to be saying tomorrow night and Friday. Democrats are going to be saying that Donald Trump showed exactly why he lost, because he's on a hinge and has terrible ideas, and they didn't work, and the Republican is going to be saying that Joe Biden shows that he doesn't have the energy and whatever else you want to call it to make it through.

In truth, the things with the mics is sexy and all, but unless they mute Donald Trump for 90 minutes, he's going to be the same Donald Trump. I think we all need to be drug tested the next time we come out.

SINGLETON: Let's bet some money on it, Philippe. I'm going to put a wager on it.

REINES: He doesn't come with a strategy. He comes in with a list, his grievances. I would take one issue with Mark, which I know I'm going to regret, is that I do think there will be something akin to a policy debate, only because I believe Donald Trump, he has his day-to-day talking points about why his economy was better, why his immigration was better, and he will use that as a cudgel to swamp President Biden with numbers. Because if he's so intent on showing President Biden as not all there, he's going to use everything, personal attacks, other attacks, and the data.

SINGLETON: But I don't think he needs to show that President Biden isn't all there. People can make that decision and determine it for themselves. I think the goal is to show that President Biden's policies have not worked over the past four years.

PRESTON: But, again, we won't be talking about the hard, deep details about Trump's policies and Biden's policies. There will be the debate, and you're absolutely right, you know, I will agree with you there. There's going to be a debate about the issues. The issues are going to be on the table. But everybody at this table and everyone watching tonight is going to be watching to see, does Joe Biden stumble, right?

[22:25:03]

I mean, it's what Jamal was saying earlier.

HENDERSON: And how crazy does Donald Trump sound.

SIMMONS: Like maybe it's what does Joe Biden stumble, but it's also does Donald Trump have like kind of a Jack Nicholson moment on stage and like does something where he's a Few Good Men and he just sort of blurt something out that he's not supposed to say. And so I think people will be looking for this.

Think about this. And when they did this the last time, Joe Biden had been through a series of debates in the primaries, so he was kind of in game shape. Neither one of these guys have been playing pre-season ball. It's no telling how well either one of them will do when the lights come on for the first 15 or 20 minutes.

PHILLIP: They both might suffer from that incumbent shortfall that men and older --

HENDERSON: Hold on. You know what? They're both 80.

PHILLIP: Everyone, stand by for us. Coming up next, ahead of the debate night right here in Atlanta, Donald Trump is bragging, of course, about his mugshot, of all things, and comparing himself to a few superstars. I'll discuss that and the state of Democratic politics with Stacey Abrams. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [22:30:14]

PHILLIP: Sinatra, Elvis, and Donald Trump. Today, the former President called into a campaign event at an Atlanta barbershop and compared himself to those legends when he was asked about a slew of court cases that he's facing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC K.D. BOYD, FOUNDER, HELPING EMPOWER YOUTH: In the black community, it's been made a big deal about how you have been kind of railroaded here as far as your court cases go and everything --

UNKNOWN: Yeah.

BOYD: -- and the support that you'll receive from the black community is kind of like a sympathetic kind of support because it's understood that we've received similar, not even similar, but basically we've been railroaded since the day we came here.

What can we do about those Fani Willis and Alvin Bragg that are, you know, right now sending some poor black person to jail for some crime that they're doing?

TRUMP: But since that happened, the black support -- I think my representatives will tell you this, the black support has gone through the roof, and I guess they equate it to problems that they've had. But since this has happened, like the mug shot, the mug shot is the best set, it just beat Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra by a lot, by the way, beat him by a lot, but that's the number one mug shot of all time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Joining me now, Stacey Abrams, she was the former minority leader of the Georgia House and Georgia's 2018 Democratic candidate for governor. Thank you for joining us.

STACEY ABRAMS (D), FORMER MINORITY LEADER OF GEORGIA HOUSE: Thank you for having me.

PHILLIP: So, of course, as you know, black voters, they are not a monolith, but Donald Trump, what he said there, what you heard from that voter in the room, is there any truth to that? Do his cases and convictions actually resonate with black voters in Georgia?

ABRAMS: I think what resonates with black voters in Georgia is the fact that Donald Trump stood foursquare against the Central Park young men who were accused of a violent crime, and he called for their execution.

They recall that he refused to denounce the Proud Boys, who espoused a hatred and xenophobia that includes a hatred for black people. They know that he is in favor of rescinding the rules that prevent discrimination in housing, that would make it harder for black people and people of color to get access to affordable housing. And so, while there may be some moment of interest in his mugshot, it

is not leading to support. I think it is more recognition that his comeuppance has arrived, and that he is not above the law, which so many of us have known for very long.

PHILLIP: At the same time, this is a big issue in this election. A "Washington Post"-Ipsos Poll from April showed that black Americans question whether President Biden is helping them. Thirty-eight percent said that President Biden's policies have helped them. Almost half said his policies have made no difference. Does President Biden need to speak directly to this -- directly to black Americans, tomorrow on that debate stage?

ABRAMS: Absolutely. And he's going to not only speak to black Americans, he's going to speak to all Americans. And he's going to remind us not only of what he's done, which has been incredibly important, the investments that he's made, the jobs that have been created, the unemployment rate that is near record lows.

But he's also going to point out what's to come, that under a new Biden administration, under a renewed Biden administration, the seeds that he's planted in our economies, in our communities, in our lives, that we will now have a chance to see them come to fruition.

But that under a Trump administration, he has promised that he is going to cut taxes for billionaires, which Moody said will lead to a recession, will lead to inflation. He has said that he is going to balance and pay for this by cutting Social Security and Medicaid. We know that -- and Medicare. We know that for so many of our families, especially for elderly black families, that could be a death knell.

And so, I think the job that President Biden will have tomorrow is to match the false machismo of a Donald Trump with the proven maturity and the foresight that he has shown as the President of the United States.

PHILLIP: When it comes to politics, we've been seeing some primaries this year. One happened yesterday, and a squad member, progressive Democrat Jamaal Bowman, he lost his primary battle to George Latimer, who kind of came at him from the center-left.

"The New York Times" wrote this of the loss. Mr. Bowman's win in 2020 seemed to herald an ascendant progressive movement. In 2024, the center is regaining power. Is that true?

ABRAMS: I think that we live in a moment where politics is hyper-local and deeply international. And that tension is going to play out across the country in primary after primary. I wouldn't extrapolate from any one race that we know what's going to happen.

[22:35:00]

But what I would say it shows is that it's incumbent upon everyone standing for public office to listen to the people they serve, to not be led by those decisions that people want you to make, but to be able to articulate why you're making those choices. And I believe that as we watch the rest of this year play out, as we

see more and more of Donald Trump's performative behavior, and the more he tells us about what he intends to do, Americans will understand, especially black Americans, that he does not intend our good.

PHILLIP: Tomorrow, I imagine that the topic of whether or not Donald Trump actually lost the election in 2020 is going to come up, he continues to suggest that he won when that's not true. But your name has actually been something that Republicans like to bring up when they defend Trump's election denialism. I want you to just listen to some of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If you challenge an election, you should be able to challenge an election. I thought the election was a rigged election, a stolen election. And I should have every right to do that. As you know, you have many people that you've been watching over the years do the same thing, whether it's Hillary Clinton or Stacey Abrams or many others.

BRAD RAFFENSPERGER (R-GA), SECRETARY OF STATE: All this talk of a stolen election, whether it's Stacey Abrams or the President of the United States, is hurting our state.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): When Stacey Abrams challenged the results in Georgia, she was an American hero. When Donald Trump's going to court, he's a dictator.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: We're here in Georgia. I imagine that this is going to come up again. If it does, what's your response if President Biden says, well, Stacey Abrams did it?

ABRAMS: Republicans can repeat a lie as many times as they would like. It does not make it true. I have never once challenged my election. What I challenged were laws and rules and processes that denied access to the right to vote to thousands of Georgians. What I was able to demonstrate in court after court was that we were correct.

And in fact, in a lawsuit that was settled and determined that was actually adjudicated in 2022, in a very long opinion, the judge said, indeed, what we claimed happened, it simply was out of his control to do anything about it because of people like President Trump, who put Supreme Court justices in place, who have weakened access to protections.

That's why I created the organization Fair Fight. I believe in the outcome of elections. But what I do not and will not countenance is putting voters in a position where they do not have full and fair access to the right to vote.

Republicans can try to conflate the two. It is not only false. It undercuts and undermines the legitimacy of those who do need to speak up, who do need to point out that there were irregularities in how they were allowed to vote.

And we know that in Georgia right now, we have new laws, as do 27 other states, that were not in place in 2020 that will make it harder to vote. Republicans have intentionally restricted the right to vote across 28 states because they believe too many people had the right to vote in 2020.

And so, I'm absolutely proud of the work that I have done to lift up the right of voters. I am not entitled to win an election and I never once challenged by election. But I will always speak up for voters who need to have someone championing their right to cast a ballot and have that ballot counted. Stacey Abrams, thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate your time.

ABRAMS: Thank you for having me, Abby.

PHILLP: And up next, did Hillary Clinton's 2016 debate predictions about Donald Trump come true? We got the tape. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:42:59]

PHILLIP: The only person to have debated both President Biden and Donald Trump is now telling Biden that it is a waste of time to try to fact check Donald Trump during this matchup tomorrow night. So, we went back and we looked at Hillary Clinton's three debates with Trump and some of her predictions and they aged strikingly well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a pattern -- a pattern of divisiveness of a very dark and in many ways dangerous vision of our country where he incites violence, where he applauds people who are pushing and pulling and punching at his rallies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Of course, the darkest form of violence following one of his rallies was the January 6th insurrection.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I know that this campaign has caused some questioning and some worries on the part of many leaders across the globe. The United States has kept the peace through our alliances. Donald wants to tear up our alliances.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Trump would go on to abandon the Paris agreement, the TPP, the U.N. Human Rights Council, the Iran nuclear deal, the open skies treaty. And of course, to this day, he is still threatening NATO.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: He'd rather believe Vladimir Putin than the military and civilian intelligence professionals who are sworn to protect us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: And as you may remember, Trump would go on to say this out loud in Helsinki, standing right next to Putin. When it came to the Supreme Court --

CLINTON: Donald has put forth the names of some people that he would consider. And among the ones that he has suggested are people who would reverse Roe v. Wade and reverse marriage equality. I think that would be a terrible mistake and would take us backwards.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: This week does mark the two year anniversary when the justices overturned Roe versus Wade.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Indeed, he said women should be punished, that there should be some form of punishment for women who obtain abortions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:45:10]

PHILLIP: She was also pressing it about this, too. Since the overturning of Roe, it now gives the State the power to do exactly that. In fact, Trump recently said that prosecuting women or even tracking them is now up to the states. And finally, the prediction that still is unfolding by the day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Every time Donald thinks things are not going in his direction, he claims, whatever it is, is rigged against him. He said the FBI was rigged. He lost the Iowa caucus. He lost the Wisconsin primary. He said the Republican primary was rigged against him. He claims the court system and the federal judge is rigged against him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Trump does say he wants to defund the FBI. He does say that his New York conviction shows the courts are rigged. And he is facing criminal charges related to his lies about the election being rigged against him. Up next, why two major stories are likely to factor into tomorrow's debate, including one involving a breach, the other involving the border. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:50:57]

PHILLIP: We have two major stories that are developing that could upend tomorrow's debate. Anticipation is building that the Supreme Court may reveal its decision on Donald Trump's immunity argument in the morning. And on the other big issue, Homeland Security is warning that tonight, a group that may be linked to ISIS smuggled hundreds of migrants into the United States. My panel is back with me.

SCOTUS really knows how to make an appearance. They really are setting this up for maximum impact. I mean, it could be tomorrow, but full disclosure, it could also be later in the week. But if this immunity decision comes down tomorrow, I mean, that's going to be perhaps topic number one.

SINGLETON: I mean, I would be surprised if it comes tomorrow, Abby, to be honest with you. I think they'll probably wait until Friday. And I'm not convinced that whatever the decision will be, that it's going to really change the needle one way or the other. I think folks who support Biden are going to stay there.

Folks support Trump are going to stay there. And the people in the middle, I think, are more concerned with kitchen table issues than whether or not the Supreme Court is going to grant Trump full immunity, which I think most of us would agree isn't going to happen anyway.

PHILLIP: What do you think is going to happen when Donald Trump gets asked, do you think you have immunity to, you know, order a hit on your successor or your predecessor while you're in office because you're President? I mean, I think the issue sets him up to lose it on something that he, frankly, is really far away from a mainstream on.

DUBKE: Well, I think there's a level in which he does think -- a president has a level of immunity. I'd be very surprised if they asked about the SEAL Team Six hit question during the debate. But I do -- I do think that it is a it is a point of contention for him in which he does believe that there is a level of immunity that a president has while in office.

REINES: This goes back to the point that you were talking to about Maggie Haberman, is that Donald Trump has never had to shift to the middle like many candidates or nominees do. He doesn't know how to talk about January 6th in a way that will translate well to the next phase of the campaign.

You were talking about they've been Maggie was reporting that they have been trying to workshop ideas. But this is another one of these things where his innate sense is to never say anything that his base might not agree with.

So, he can't go from these are a thousand patriots that need to be pardoned to, well, you know what, maybe 40 of them should stay in jail. It's the same thing with immunity. He's talking to a bunch of people at the little sliver of society that doesn't know where they're going or they're up for grabs. And those folks don't like hearing this stuff, whether it's SEAL Team Six or any kind of the law doesn't apply to.

PHILLIP: And there's also abortion. That's -- we've gotten actually maybe a draft of an opinion that might be coming down, that would side with the Biden administration. These things were going to be on the agenda anyway. But the contours of it are going to be shaped by what the court does.

HENDERSON: And I think both of these issues favor Biden, right. I mean, on the immunity issue, I think if you're Biden, you can start to talk about Donald Trump saying that he wants to be a dictator, not understanding democracy, not understanding there are limits to his power. And then on the abortion, this is the draconian world that American women live in. And it's all because of Donald Trump and the Supreme Court that he fashioned.

DUBKE: If you're not talking about inflation, if you're not talking about the economy, you're not talking about the border and you're not talking about chaos and wars all around the world, all that does favor Biden.

PHILLIP: Well, the immigration thing is going to is going to be an issue. I mean, that's a really devastating report for the Biden administration on those ISIS people.

SIMMONS: Yeah, that's a sticky one, right?

UNKNOWN: No kidding.

SIMMONS: But I do think the President has something important to say, which is that since then, he's seen the numbers of immigration, people at the border begin to go down from his current policy. He sent Secretary Mayorkas down there. He'll be able to talk about that. So, he's showing that he's taking it seriously, which ultimately is what we're hiring a president to do.

[22:55:04]

It's not that they won't make mistakes. It's not that things won't happen on their watch that we don't like. The question is, how can we trust the president to then take it in his hands and then try to fix the problems that arise?

And I think what we saw in 2020, not to keep going back to this, but we saw Donald Trump at a point where he was tested in a crisis and he failed his test. So, Joe Biden's point now is to be able to say, I know we have a problem. Here's how we're going to fix it. That works very often.

PHILLIP: All right, Preston, take us out.

PRESTON: Well, as you started the segment, there are two issues, right? That are going to be very important. It's going to be the border. Huge story has come out. That's going to be an accelerant. It's going to be gasoline.

Trump will light it on fire. The same thing is going to happen with abortion, as well. Joe Biden has been very, very strident on how he's going to address the issue of abortion. Again, another issue, which gasoline right to match debate tomorrow night.

PHILLIP: Reality is the polls show voters trust Trump on so many of these issues. So, it's really on Joe Biden to figure out how he's going to turn the tables. Everyone, thank you very much.

And don't forget -- how could you forget? Jake Tapper, Dana Bash tomorrow, moderating CNN's Presidential Debate between President Biden and former President Donald Trump. That will be live right here in Atlanta, Georgia, beginning tomorrow, 9 P.M. Eastern and streaming on Max. And thank you very much for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)