Return to Transcripts main page
CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Biden Addresses Nation To Pass The Torch To Harris; CNN Poll Shows Harris Improves On Biden's Performance Vs. Trump; Trump Unleashes On Harris, Framing Her As Ultra Liberal; "NewsNight" Tackles VP Kamala Harris' Qualifications As A Presidential Candidate. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired July 24, 2024 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Tonight, the president in primetime bares his soul --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Nothing can come in the way of saving our democracy. That includes personal ambition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: -- about his choice to turn the page on his own campaign.
Plus, Donald Trump tests new material --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You're ultra liberal, and we don't want you here. Kamala, you're fired. Get out of here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: -- against his new opponent, Kamala Harris.
Also, thousands of anti-war protesters come face to face with police. Will similar scenes swallow Chicago and the Harris Convention?
Live at the Table, Reihan Salam, Ashley Allison, Ana Navarro and Betsy McCaughey. Welcome to a special edition of NewsNight, State of the Race.
A very good evening to you. I'm Abby Philip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about tonight. Joe Biden has said goodbye.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I revere this office, but I love my country more. It's been the honor of my life to serve as your president. But in the defense of democracy, which is at stake, I think it's more important than any title.
But I've decided the best way forward is to pass the torch to a new generation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Biden traced his trajectory from Scranton to Delaware, to the Capitol, to the White House behind that resolute desk, and he framed the stakes again and again for this election in November.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I've given my heart and my soul to our nation, like so many others. I've been blessed a million times in return the love and support of the American people.
The great thing about America is, here, kings and dictators do not rule, the people do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Our panel is here with us in New York. Ana, this is a president who has spent the youth of his life and the sunset of his life in public office. It is really an incredible moment for Joe Biden, for someone who spent quite a lot of time with him over the years. How did you take it all in?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I guess, you know, I've had a few days to process it. It's made me very sad. It's made me very sad. It's also made me very grateful and very nostalgic. I met Joe Biden over 20 years ago, almost 25 years ago, as I was a very young lobbyist working on immigration issues. And the last time I saw Joe Biden in person, which was the day -- the night after the debate here in New York, he said to me when I met you, you were just a kid. And then he said, you're still a kid.
And, you know, we were on different sides of the aisle. When he was running with President Barack Obama, then-Senator Barack Obama then, I was very much supporting the Republican candidate. But somehow, we always had this mutual respect.
And I just -- you know, all I can say to you today is that for Joe Biden, I want him to know that I am an American who is grateful for everything he's done for this country, for his over 50 years of service to this country. I am grateful that he took us out of the hell of COVID, that he took us out of the hell of Trump. I am grateful that he called to our better angels, that he showed us decency, that he brought integrity back to the institution of the White House, and that he left it all on the field, that he did it until the last moment he could.
I love the guy and I think he's going to go down in history as one of the most consequential precedents in U.S. history. You'll tell us more about that.
FORMER LT. GOV. BETSY MCCAUGHEY (R-NY): Yes. I wanted to love this speech, I truly did, the old warrior about to say goodbye, somebody who's given decades to the country. But, in the end, when he said he was passing the torch, I felt that, in fact, the truth got torched, because everyone was waiting for him to give an honest reason why he suddenly changed his mind, and we didn't get anything --
[22:05:06]
PHILLIP: Okay, let me play it, okay? I want to play that so people can hear Betsy is talking about. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Nothing can come in the way of saving our democracy. That includes personal ambition. So, I've decided the best way forward is to pass the torch to a new generation. That's the best way to unite our nation.
You know, there is a time and a place for long years of experience in public life. There's also a time and a place for new voices, fresh voices, yes, younger voices. And that time and place is now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: The president said that he thought he could have a second term, that he said, what I did in the first term, I wanted to continue, I was ready to continue it, and then he pretty much said, but I lost my party. He admitted that he lost his party. And he said, in order to unify my party, which at this consequential moment, this defining moment of American history is essential, I stepped aside.
So, it's very interesting. He basically admitted that he lost the Democratic Party, which, by the way, is absolutely unprecedented. We've had presidents who've decided not to run again. They did so before they had lost the party.
MCCAUGHEY: He didn't lose it on policy. He lost it because of his infirmity.
PHILLIP: Well, (INAUDIBLE) of his age, and, I mean, he talks about the fact that this is a moment for younger voices. I mean, he said that.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He didn't actually lose the party. The reality is he could have gone to Chicago and still got the Democratic nomination. Look, we're all adults here and we make big decisions in our lives sometimes. And it takes time to come to a big decision. He said it would be an act of God, which sometimes that's what actually makes a big decision in your life. He said it would be if there was an illness or he said if he couldn't win.
And the moment he got to the point where his senior advisers told him he could not win, that is when he put party and country over himself, unlike the Republican Party candidate. I'll say I was in the Rose Garden the day President Obama gave the speech the day after Donald Trump won the election and Joe Biden stood by him. Nobody wants to have to relive that day. And so Joe Biden understood that he might not be able to win. And so he said, it is time for me to pass the torch as I promised I would do four years ago.
REIHAN SALAM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The thing that we understand is that Joe Biden --
MCCAUGHEY: No candidate can ever be sure of winning.
SALAM: No president can ever be sure of winning. Joe Biden is very much a creature of the Democratic Party. He's been around for 50 years. He is someone who is from a safe state. He was always willing to make the most aggressive partisan punches because he could afford to do that. He was rescued from political oblivion by Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar dropping out of the presidential race to save the Democratic Party from a Bernie Sanders nomination that time around.
It was not because of his great charisma, not because of his great ability. There's a reason why Barack Obama doubted him, said that there was always a way that Joe Biden could find a way to screw things up. He was very much an accidental president, someone who is not capable of meeting the moment. The idea that he is some kind of American hero --
NAFTALI: Wait --
PHILLIP: Do you think he met the moment tonight? I mean, tonight was a moment that called for him to put aside political ambition. I mean, I think we underestimate how difficult that is. I mean, Donald Trump lost fair and square.
SALAM: He had no choice, Abby, (INAUDIBLE) absolutely no choice.
ALLISON: Everybody has a choice. And I just like to correct history. The reason why Joe Biden got the Democratic nomination in 2020 was because of black people. So --
SALAM: Absolutely, moderate black voters in the south and then he suddenly got Elizabeth Warren's, Bernie Sanders' platform.
PHILLIP: They also believed -- this is an important point, black voters believed that Joe Biden was the only person who could beat Donald Trump. It turned out that they were correct.
So, you can call it accidental, but it's also math.
SALAM: The real accident is that Barack Obama chose Joe Biden reluctantly over Evan Bayh. You know, if Evan Bayh had been chosen, we would be in a very different political time.
NAVARRO: When Joe Biden first won his seat in Delaware, it was not a sure seat. He was not -- he didn't coast into the seat. We also saw this is a man I think that so many people feel so much for, because of the incredible personal tragedy that he has survived, and continued serving the country through. It's not easy.
And, look, you seem to want him, you know, to talk about infirmity. We don't know what he has. We do know that we've seen very young men go into that office and four years later come out looking like they've been through a meat grinder. So, imagine what the weight of the presidency is on somebody (INAUDIBLE).
[22:10:01]
SALAM: Well, look, dishonesty and (INAUDIBLE) had long before this presidency.
MCCAUGHEY: Because we have a 25th Amendment. And many people wanted to hear tonight what is actual status. We're forgetting recent history. The Robert Hur tapes, which Merrick Garland refused to let the American people here. They didn't want the American people to hear the mumbling, the stumbling, the fumbling, the long lapses in between answers to those questions. They were hiding Joe Biden's real abilities.
PHILLIP: First of all --
(CROSSTALKS)
NAFTALI: We have time for a wake first.
PHILLIP: Lieutenant Governor, we don't actually know if any of those things happened, but go ahead.
NAFTALI: Listen, before we, we, we do this, and I know, I mean, I'm a historian, I can't wait to find out what actually happened, but before we do that, could we just step back for a moment and recognize something absolutely incredible about the United States? This is a superpower, all right? And a president has nuclear weapons, and the president is the commander-in-chief, and there's never any question until 6th that somebody would give up authority, would give up the chance for power.
Now, the president didn't resign tonight but he gave up his chance to be re-elected. That is extraordinary. Let's just keep in mind we are talking about someone giving away a position that is the most powerful in the world. When somebody says he had to, they don't understand the presidency. If he were investigated and he was about to be impeached and maybe removed --
SALAM: That's so obviously false but, I mean --
NAFTALI: Oh, it's not so obviously false. I'm telling you, he did not have to. He had all the delegates.
SALAM: He's still there for another six months when he's manifestly incapable.
NAFTALI: Tell me how you know he's manifestly incapable.
SALAM: I'm sorry to say that this is a sensitive matter where there are a lot of folks. Who have been talking about this for some time.
NAFTALI: Oh yes, I've heard them, too. My doctor tells me he thinks he might have something, but he also says, but he's not my patient.
SALAM: And, look, the deeper problem, the deeper question is, who is actually in charge at any given time? You know, this notion that he's only sharp for six hours of the day, this is an incredibly volatile moment in part because of his failures.
ALLISON: Are we having a --
NAVARRO: No. Everything you're saying, I'm sorry, is speculation. Let me tell you what is not speculation.
SALAM: It's not a speculation. He's been an absolute failure --
NAVARRO: No, it is speculation. Because, actually, unlike you, I've actually seen the guy at 9:00 at night. I have seen him after he has had five different events in 24 hours.
SALAM: Might that cloud your judgment?
NAVARRO: What?
SALAM: Do you think that makes you more objective?
NAVARRO: Well, I think the fact that I have actually seen him, whereas you're just reading gossips and speculation.
MCCAUGHEY: We all saw the debate. We all saw the debate where Joe Biden was clearly incompetent, unable to address the questions that he should have been able to address. We know that Robert Hur and Merrick Garland kept those audiotapes from the public.
SALAM: And Democratic lawmakers --
NAVARRO: We all saw the debate, which is what --
MCCAUGHEY: Kamala Harris is now going to be running for president deceived --
SALAM: Democratic lawmakers who were --
(CROSSTALKS)
ALLISON: I'm sorry, this isn't the story.
PHILLIP: One at a time. Ashley, go ahead.
ALLISON: I appreciate that the enthusiasm that Kamala Harris has now sparked in the Democratic Party has made some people nervous. But the story that Joe Biden is lying to the public is not -- when was the last time you were with Joe Biden? When was the last time you were with Joe Biden? So, if you weren't --
SALAM: There are a lot of Democrats in Congress who were with him in October 2021, who are frightened and afraid in October 2021, because he could not clearly communicate a case for passing major legislation, something that he specialized in during the Obama administration.
NAVARRO: Donald Trump's chief of staff was afraid of Donald Trump.
(CROSSTALKS)
SALAM: And that was a real vulnerability for him.
NAVARRO: The only time that we have had -- the only time we have talked about the 25th Amednment regarding a president in the recent history has been cabinet members of Donald Trump.
SALAM: I appreciate the pivot. I think that that makes a lot of sense for you.
NAVARRO: No, it's not a pivot. It's true.
ALLISON: I'd just like to say --
PHILLIP: I'm going to give Tim the last word on this one.
NAFTALI: Look, we are going to be able to deliberate and judge and debate when the president stopped being the same as the teleprompter Biden, but it doesn't matter today.
MCCAUGHEY: It does matter very much for the security of the United States.
NAFTALI: No, let me explain why it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter today because he moved aside in time for the Democrats to choose a candidate and to unite around a candidate. Whether you like that process or not is a different issue. Had he remained and then proved himself incompetent while the formal nominee, then one could say this man had dragged the country down. He waited too long, clearly.
[22:15:00]
But how long is too long is something we won't know until we know about November.
But in the meantime, there is no evidence, there's speculation, that he is not running the ship. Remember, we've had presidents who were, how should I put it, not micromanagers of the presidency. Ronald Reagan was a good president but he was not a micromanager. He was not in the office a lot.
We've had presidents who were like Barack Obama and John F. Kennedy, who were micromanagers. They don't always have to be. What they have to do is set the course for the state. There is no doubt that Biden set the course for this presidency, whether you like it or not.
PHILLIP: As we were having this heated conversation, someone has weighed in.
SALAM: It's very unfortunate, of course.
PHILLIP: As we've been having this conversation, someone has weighed in, and that is former President Barack Obama. He says on X, among other things, thank you for your speech. He's thanking his former running mate and friend, despite the reported tensions between them in these last few weeks, President Joe Biden. Tim Naftali, thank you for joining us and bringing all of that history to the table here today. Everyone else, don't go anywhere just yet.
Coming up, Donald Trump unleashes on Kamala Harris, mocking those who said that he'd be nice after he was shot.
Plus, some breaking news tonight involving the vice presidential search, we are hearing that one of the contenders has now removed himself from the list. We'll tell you who that is.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:50]
PHILLIP: Tonight, the first look into the head-to-head matchup between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. We have a brand new CNN poll and CNN's Political Director David Chalian is here to break it all down for us. David?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Abby, we have our brand new, exclusive CNN poll conducted by SSRS that gives us our first snapshot of a Harris-Trump race. Here's the top line. It's a margin of error race, no clear leader. 49 percent for Donald Trump, 46 percent support for Kamala Harris. That's among registered voters. And that three- point differential, well, that's about half the margin of error that Joe Biden was trailing Trump with just in the spring. He was down six points in our spring poll.
So, how is Harris narrowing that gap now into a margin of error race? Well, among young voters 18 to 34, Harris has a four point advantage over Trump in this poll. Trump had a seven-point advantage over Biden with young voters. Black voters, Harris advantage, 63 percentage points over Trump. Biden had a 47 point advantage over Trump. Hispanic voters, Donald Trump's advantage over Biden, was 9 points, now Kamala Harris has narrowed that to a two-point advantage for Trump, still a warning sign. Democrats won the Hispanic vote in 2020 by 30 points. And among female voters, Kamala Harris has a five-point advantage over Trump where he was tied with Biden.
Take a look here, too. She has flipped the script on whether or not people are voting for her or against Trump. 50 percent now say they're voting for Harris, 50 percent say they're voting for Harris to cast a vote against Trump. Look at what it was with Joe Biden. Only a third of his voters were voting for Biden. And Donald Trump has increased his affirmative vote now. 74 percent of Trump supporters say their vote is for Donald Trump. Only a quarter are saying they're voting against Kamala Harris. Abby?
PHILLIP: David Chalian, thank you for all of that.
Back with my panel here. Really fascinating numbers that show a race that is now a real race, and before it was getting out of the Democrats hands, basically. ALLISON: Yes. So, this is the part I like about campaigns. It's making the math and work. So, one thing that I think we're seeing now with the introduction of Kamala Harris at the top of most likely at the top of the ticket is that her base is rallying around her. It's really hard to win at the national level if you don't have a constituency that is going to help push you up to just baseline.
PHILLIP: Baseline operation.
ALLISON: And it is very clear that black women, black people are, are doing that right now for Kamala Harris. There is still a segment of the black population that she needs to go out and talk to, particularly young black folks. But black people are excited about her candidacy and will be a strong base, same with Latinos and young people.
But here's the thing about the coalition that she's going to have to build. You'll remember in 2016, 53 percent of white women voted for Donald Trump. When you have a base that is rallying around you, it doesn't mean you take them for granted, but it allows you to present energy into a set -- to a second tier of -- not a second tier of voters, but a more uncertain group of voters, like working class white folks.
And so if she can spend the next 100 days letting her surrogates, her allies really keep the base energized and spend the time for folks who are less familiar with her who were maybe double haters or maybe Nikki Haley voters and say, vote for me, I'm the future, she can win this.
NAVARRO: So, a marked difference, though, between today and 2016, when 51 percent of white women, as you say, voted for Donald Trump is the abortion issue.
ALLISON: That's right, yes.
NAVARRO: And it's that issue that cuts across all women. Yes, black women, Latinas, poor white women are disproportionately affected. But I think so many women, even Republican women, because I see the way this is polling in places like Florida, are really afraid of the idea that it's affecting IVF, that their daughters are not going to have the same ability to get treatment that they had, that it's affecting healthcare decisions.
I think women in writ large are pretty pissed off that government is telling them what to do with their body.
[22:25:02]
PHILLIP: I want to just play real quick, just because this happened tonight, not long before President Biden spoke. Donald Trump is on the campaign trail, and he basically said, enough with being nice, enough with unity, here is how he's going after Kamala Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Kamala Harris is the most liberal elected politician in American history. Did you know that? She's an ultra liberal. So, she was the border czar, but she never went to the border, right?
Kamala threw open our borders and allowed 20 million illegal aliens to stampede into our country from all over the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: First of all, it must be an inner -- one of those inner ear things where only Republicans cannot hear Kamala and say it correctly.
(CROSSTALKS)
NAVARRO: Abby, they hear it perfectly well in Florida. They absolutely know that the name is Kamala. They do this on purpose.
SALAM: My name is regularly mispronounced on CNN. So, these things happen.
NAVARRO: Okay, but you're not vice president of the United States.
(CROSSTALKS)
MCCAUGHEY: I was going to say a moment ago about abortion, because facing many -- a contest between many Democrats and Republicans could be about abortion. But it's not going to be, and I'll tell you why. Kamala Harris loses the advantage with women that she would have as an ardently pro-abortion candidate for this reason. She is also ardently, decisively pro-equity. Pro, and by that I mean, giving advantages to minorities and women at the expense of white men. So, women voting who have brothers, sons, husbands who are going out into the workplace or applying to college know that a Kamala Harris presidency mean white men go to the back of the line.
PHILLIP: So, just so I understand what you're saying, you're saying that white women --
MCCAUGHEY: Don't laugh, it's absolutely true.
PHILLIP: Let me just -- to be clear, you're saying that, that that women, white women in particular, are going to vote against Kamala Harris because they have been the beneficiaries?
MCCAUGHEY: No, because they know what's happening to their husbands when their husbands apply for a job, when their sons apply to get a job. I can tell you that young men, young white men graduating from college and going into the workplace this year are being told, you know, we'd like to hire you, but we have a quota. We have to fill with women and minorities. I'm sorry. That is what is happening, and it is a very important issue to Americans.
ALLISON: Well, I thought the Supreme Court said affirmative action wasn't allowed.
MCCAUGHEY: That's right. And when the court said that --
ALLISON: So, I'm not sure your argument is actually holding up, because it's not the law of the land anymore.
MCCAUGHEY: That's right. But Kamala Harris bashed the Supreme Court ruling saying, no, no, she doesn't want colorblind society. She wants equity. She believes that if people start in a different place, they should be judged differently and she wants minorities and women to be advantaged in job --
PHILLIP: I don't want to go deep into it.
NAVARRO: Everything you're saying is really, honestly, deeply offensive and deeply inaccurate. First of all, you know, I don't think that Kamala Harris wants her husband to be disadvantaged, her stepson to be disadvantaged. What you are saying, you are totally twisting her position.
MCCAUGHEY: I'm not.
SALAM: You might want to look at her record in the Senate. And if you look at the environmental justice for all, if you're looking at -- you know, setting up this diversity commission around the CARES Act, trying to impose racial preferences for the Federal Reserve and Federal Reserve staffing --
MCCAUGHEY: How about debt relief for black farmers only?
SALAM: This is something where she was differentiated. She was in lockstep with Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders. But in this one domain, race conscious policy was a high priority for her.
By the way, some people think that's great. But then let's honestly engage with what her policy prescriptions were and the fact that not everyone feels the way you do, Ana. Not everyone loves these ideas.
NAVARRO: That's absolutely perfectly fine. Not everybody might feel the same.
SALAM: I so glad you're the same disagreeing with you. That's great to hear.
NAVARRO: Listen, I disagree with me sometimes. I disagree with --
MCCAUGHEY: We can feel love fest best here and disagree.
SALAM: I can all agree with you half of the time.
NAVARRO: But Kamala Harris and folks who want equity, what they want is a level playing field.
MCCAUGHEY: No.
NAVARRO: Because they understand -- well --
MCCAUGHEY: That's not what they want. She says she wants equal outcomes.
ALLISON: Can I just say, I want equity? NAVARRO: That not at all what it is.
MCCAUGHEY: Not telling you what you want. But white women voters don't want that to have another (INAUDIBLE).
ALLISON: You just said, no, that's not what, what they want. I'm a part of that they.
MCCAUGHEY: No.
ALLISON: And what I'm saying -- yes.
MCCAUGHEY: You said white women.
ALLISON: No. What I am saying right now is that I believe in equity. And when I say equity, I want everyone to have a fair level playing field. I do not want --
MCCAUGHEY: That's not the definition of equity. Take a look at Kamala Harris' 2020 campaign ad.
NAVARRO: Let's let Ashley's --
ALLISON: Just because you talk so much doesn't make you right, okay? A conversation is that you listen. You actually hear what somebody says, and then we have a discourse. Just talking over someone doesn't make your point any stronger.
[22:30:01]
Equity allow --we can say, we know that there are people who are some disadvantaged, some white poor folks who are more disadvantaged than some people who are black middle class.
We know that. But what equity is, is that, and I will just say, white women are the ones who have benefited the most from affirmative action. So, maybe you're sitting at this chair because somebody thought you deserve to have an equal playing field.
MCCAUGHEY: I don't agree with them.
ALLISON: You don't have to, but the facts are the facts. Like you don't have to agree with it, but numbers are numbers and facts are facts and we do know white women benefited more from affirmative action than even Ana, myself, or Abby, or you at this point. Equity is that we want an even playing field. We want everybody to want to have a fair shot.
MCCAUGHEY: That's an incorrect definition.
ALLISON: No, it's not.
UNKNOWN: Yes, it is.
SALAM: We can just look at Kamala Harris' legislation. We can look specifically at what she proposed. Now, you were suggesting earlier on that a Supreme Court decision regarding racial preferences and higher education admissions applies much more broadly.
If that's the case, that's first of all contested, but if that's the case, then much of what Senator Harris proposed during her time in the Senate would now be found unconstitutional and again that's very much up for dispute.
ALLISON: That's exactly what Project 225 wants to do.
SALAM: Well look, but you were pointing that out as a fact earlier on and what I'm suggesting is that this is a live political and policy debate where there are a lot of Americans, black, brown, white Americans, who favor an approach markedly different from Kamala Harris'. And by the way, actually you may well be right that white women are the chief beneficiaries of preferences.
That is not a strike in favor of these ideas and there are many women of all colors who agree that that is actually not a very wise way to build a country and to advance policies that get a lot of buy-in and legitimacy from folks. So, I think that that's why, you know, this conversation about DEI is so strange because diversity, equity, inclusion.
You have Joe Biden saying that this is the foundation of the country. This is something that's enormously important. Look at my vice president. Now that it's become more contentious, less popular, now there are a lot of people of color who are very concerned about a DEI agenda, suddenly it's offensive.
PHILLIP: You know, I will say it's interesting to hear you guys talk about this because rather than having a policy conversation, they just call her the DEI candidate -
ALLISON: That's right.
PHILLIP: -- which makes no sense considering that -- it makes no sense considering that she has qualifications to do the job just like all the other people who were considered. But instead of the policy, you're hearing these ad hominem arguments, which is I think where all of this really breaks down and could potentially backfire.
NAVARRO: You know what I can't wrap my head around? So, on the one hand, I've seen Republicans trying to make the argument, particularly to black men and black people, that Kamala Harris is not black, right? They go through this entire thing, she's not black enough. But then on the other hand, they want to tell you that everything she's gotten in life, she's achieved because she's black and was given to her as a gift because she's black.
SALAM: Which Republicans are saying this?
MCCAUGHEY: I would never make that argument.
SALAM: Just out of curiosity. Because there are plenty of folks on the left I've heard that from too, so you're identifying someone on social media vaguely who said she's not black enough because she's also an Asian-American? MCCAUGHEY: I don't think we should focus on Kamala Harris'
personality. I
NAVARRO: I can give you a lot of Republicans in the elected office who have said that she is that she's been given things because she's black.
MCCAUGHEY: I don't think we should focus on Kamala Harris' personality or personal traits. I can point to the legislation that she drove through the Biden administration. For example, the American Rescue Act. Section 1001, Debt Relief for Black Farmers, but white farmers need not apply. Another section, relief for restaurant owners, but only women or minority owners. White owners had to wait three weeks additional in case the money ran out.
PHILLIP: All right, you guys, we're out of time for this -- for this one.
ALLISON: I'm just glad you're acknowledging that Kamala Harris actually did something.
PHILLIP: Let me just -- we're going to pause here because we have a lot more ahead. I just want to say, Lieutenant Governor, the reason that the black farmers thing is an issue is because the government used to actually prevent black farmers from getting the same kinds of aid that they would give to white farmers.
So, it's, you know, responding to an actual act of the government. That's one of the reasons that that is an issue for legislation. That's the reason it's on the table as legislation. But everyone, stand by for us. We've got a lot more ahead.
Breaking news involving the Vice President's Kamala Harris' running mate search. We are now hearing that one of the contenders has removed his name from that list. You can stay with us. We've got more on that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:38:53]
PHILLIP: And breaking news, one of the V.P. contenders for Kamala Harris has taken his name out of consideration. Retired Admiral William McRaven, who oversaw the Bin Laden raid, says that there are far better options. And my panel is back. Bill McRaven is a favorite of Washington. No labels tried to recruit him into the race. He said no then and here we are.
SALAM: So, I guess my view is that if you're Kamala Harris, it makes perfect sense. You want a very low risk pick. You don't want to blow things up. You don't want to divide the party. But my view is that there's one potential vice presidential pick who would be huge, who would change the dynamic of the race. That is Governor Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania.
He is someone who has described problematic, unruly, violent Gaza protesters as akin to the Ku Klux Klan. He's been very clear on stinting. He is someone who was able to speak about a Trump supporter at the recent Trump rally where there was an assassination attempt, Corey Comperatore, in a very human way, where he was really celebrating that person's life in a way that felt totally genuine.
PHILLIP: He did have a great moment during that --
SALAM: He is totally different and he would really change things. The trouble is that there is a wing of the Democratic Party that does not want someone who is a staunch supporter of Israel and someone who is actually willing to face down violent protesters and say there's no room for him in the party.
[22:40:08]
PHILLIP: Do you think that that's true or is that overblown? I'm genuinely curious because --
SALAM: Chicago could be a mess.
PHILLIP: I think I've never seen Democrats as pragmatic as they are right now.
ALLISON: Yeah.
PHILLIP: Since 2020 when they picked Joe Biden over everybody else.
ALLISON: Yeah, I don't necessarily agree with that in terms of their -- I know that there is a wing of the party that is definitely protesting and its --
SALAM: A big and loud wing.
PHILLIP: It's actually --
ALLISON: It's not any louder than MAGA but --
PHILLIP: It's small, like factually it's smaller and loud.
ALLISON: But I also will say is that they are people who voted uncommitted and are still trying to find a pathway for Democrats to win in November because they understand the risk of Donald Trump's place.
But putting that point aside, I want to talk about veepstakes on the Democratic side since it's my party. In this moment, put points on the board. Arizona, Pennsylvania, two people from those states, two important states that we need to win picked Mark Kelly --
PHILLIP: Okay.
ALLISON: We just had the map up.
NAVARRO: You are just absolutely right on that.
ALLISON: Thank you.
PHILLIP: Arizona, Pennsylvania and North Carolina is on that list, too. And according to our reporting, these are the top --
NAVARRO: What Kamala Harris needs to do is pick somebody that's better than J.D. Vance, which should be a very low bar. I heard J.D. Vance be described the other day as J.D. Vance is the Sarah Palin of Dan Quayles. I mean, you know, he has the lowest numbers, right? He has the lowest numbers after the convention of any vice presidential candidate. She needs to find somebody that's going to beat him.
SALAMA: Don't underestimate J.D. Vance. That would be a mistake -- somebody -- before --
PHILLIP: Hold your thoughts for us. We've got a lot more to discuss. CNN has captured a protester, as we were just discussing this, holding a Hamas flag in Washington, D.C., as Democrats fear similar scenes playing out in Chicago at their convention. Our special guests will join us to discuss that and more. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:46:20]
PHILLIP: We're back and we have a special guest joining the conversation at the table. With us now, Congressman Jim Clyburn of South Carolina. He is one of the senior most Democrats in the House of Representatives, and he famously helped tilt the 2020 primary toward Joe Biden. And that is, in some ways, putting it lightly. Congressman, thank you for being here.
REP. JIM CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, thank you very much for having me.
PHILLIP: I wonder, listening to President Biden tonight, you've known him for a very long time. You said you were going to watch it by yourself. This is a moment for you, I'm sure, too, because of your role in helping put him in the White House. What was your reaction to the Joe Biden that you saw tonight?
CLYBURN: I thought it was a great speech. I thought what came through, more than anything else, is a Joe that I know. You may recall when I made that endorsement that people talk about a lot back in 2020, it was a little refrain. I know Joe. We know Joe. But most importantly, Joe knows us. And that came through tonight.
He knows this country. He loves this country. He knows its people. He has great love for the democracy that has made us what we are today, and he will do anything to prevent this country from getting off track.
From the very beginning, it was a recognition that we're not perfect. We all got to know the history of this country, far from being perfect. But then we decided, the founding fathers did, to start on a track toward a more perfect union. And we are still on that track. And Joe Biden has done his part to keep us on that.
But the other side seemed to want to take us backward. We've done that before. After the 1876 presidential election, which they were trying to replicate on January 6, 2021, we took a backward thrust that led us to Jim Crow.
Jim Crow caused things to happen in this country that none of us ought to ever want to revisit. But if you look at Trump's Project 2025 and see what's in it, you will see that this project, if it were ever implemented, would take this country back to where we were doing Jim Crow.
PHILLIP: Let me ask you, Congressman, about the road ahead for Vice President Harris. We have a new CNN poll out now showing that she's made some gains in consolidating support within the party, but there's still a lot of work to do.
And you're also hearing Republicans, including former President Trump, describing her as the most liberal candidate, likening her to Bernie Sanders, your colleague in the Senate. Does she need to convince voters that she is not some fire-breathing liberal? And if so, how does she do that?
CLYBURN: Well, you know, I tell people a whole lot. My father was a fundamentalist minister, and he used to teach us that if you make a dollar, you ought to be able to save a nickel. When you walk out of the room, you turn your lights out.
[22:50:01]
You ought to conserve. He was a conservative, but he never asked his church on Sunday morning to give a conservative offering. He asked for a liberal offering. I grew up learning that we must balance liberalism and conservatism. This whole stuff of either you're conservative or you're liberal, that's poppycock. We have to look and see what the issues are, see what the conditions are, see what the needs are.
I have three daughters. I don't treat them the same way because their needs are not the same. We treat people according to their needs, and we ought to get out of this stuff, this blaming liberal or that radical conservative. We have to deal with issues based upon what people's needs are.
I heard you talking earlier about black farmers and the pay for black farmers. The former lieutenant governor ought to be ashamed of herself. We know. I used to run the South Carolina Commission for Farm Workers, and those three-member white-only committees turned down every loan every black farmer tried to get.
The black soldiers that came back from World War II, when white soldiers were getting the GI Bill of Rights, they did not give those GI Bill of Rights to black soldiers. They didn't get the home loans that the white soldiers got.
They didn't get the educational opportunities that white soldiers got. How do you correct that? Should we correct that? Or are we going to blame the process that we put in place to correct the fact that people lost their farms because they were discriminated against?
PHILLIP: It's such an important piece. Just one second, Lieutenant Governor. It's such an important piece of history that you're putting there on the table, Congressman. I just want to introduce the panel that's here right now. Lieutenant Governor, I'll give you a quick second to respond to that but I want to move on to something else.
MCCAUGHEY: I would like to respond because the farmers in upstate New York, the dairy farmers, needed debt relief, too, and they were going to be denied debt relief because of the color of their skin.
PHILLIP: How do you respond to what the Congressman is saying --
MCCAUGHEY: I am responding.
PHILLIP: - which is that for decades black farmers were denied --
MCCAUGHEY: Sins of the past --
PHILLIP: -- equal access --
MCCAUGHEY: That's true and --
PHILLIP: -- to the same services and aid that white farmers were getting?
MCCAUGHEY: You should not make the people of the present suffer for the sins of our ancestors. That is not fair. And you can't tell the white farmers in upstate New York who are suffering, trying to hold on to their dairy farms that they can't have the same kind of debt relief because their skin isn't the right color.
ALLISON: This isn't the sins of our past. This is the present that we're talking about.
PHILLIP: I want to -- I know Reihan has a question for the Congressman. You can go ahead and ask him.
SALAM: Just -- you've given a really thoughtful tribute to the idea that you want pragmatic moderation. When you are looking to the selection of a running mate for Vice President Kamala Harris, I wonder if you think that she should be looking to consolidate and make enthusiastic progressive base voters.
Or if you think she should choose someone who's going to appeal to independents and swing voters. What would your recommendation to her be? Because I know she listens very closely to what you have to say.
CLYBURN: Well, I've made it very clear. I noticed the three front runners for this, one of whom is the governor of North Carolina, another the governor of Pennsylvania, and then the senator from Arizona. All three of them are great people. They bring different kinds of backgrounds to this whole ticket. Either one of them, in my opinion, would be great.
The fact of the matter is there's nothing unusual about putting together a ticket with that one. Everybody loves John F. Kennedy. He would never have been President of the United States if he had not put Lyndon Baines Johnson on the ticket with him, and he did it because Johnson was from Texas, and he needed Johnson in order to help moderate the ticket. So, I would ask her to look at this program, look at all these people, and see who can best moderate the ticket and get that person.
PHILLIP: Ana?
NAVARRO: Congressman, nice to see you. And listen, I know one of your three daughters, and I know you treat them all very well. So, say hello to Mignon for me.
CLYBURN: Thank you.
NAVARRO: Look, you have worked with so many presidents, very closely with so many presidents in your tenure. You know what it takes to be a good president. And there's so many that are questioning Vice President Kamala Harris' qualifications.
There's so many out there saying, some of your colleagues, Republican colleagues in Congress, saying that she is a DEI hire that only became vice president because of the color of her skin.
[22:55:02]
So, since you know her and you know what it takes, what do you think are her qualifications to be president?
CLYBURN: She's an incredibly smart woman. I met her a long time ago before she ever ran for attorney general. She was a prosecutor there in California. In fact, I went out to California and spent a little time with her when she was running for that position.
Was she DUI, I mean, DEI when she became the governor, I mean, the attorney general? Was she DEI when she became a United States senator? So, why is she DEI when she is running for president? She was an incredibly good attorney general, tremendous success, a good senator, and a great vice president. All of those seem to be training grounds for being president.
So, if you just look at her background and her experiences, you will see in that the kind of foundation, if any white guy had that foundation, they would be saying she is well prepared to be President of the United States. So, why do we ascribe that to her?
PHILLIP: Congressman James Clyburn, we really appreciate you joining the conversation with us. Thank you very much and thank you to everyone here. We'll be back in a moment.
CLYBURN: Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:59:43]
PHILLIP: All right. No time for net caps tonight except for one. Ana has something to say.
NAVARRO: Yes. You know, so we have seen some old video of J.D. Vance where he was attacking childless cat ladies. That's what he called Kamala Harris, despite the fact that she's raised -- helped raise two stepchildren.
[23:00:02]
So, I just want to make sure that if he's going to be attacking cat ladies, childless dog ladies are in the conversation.
ALLISON: Me, too. So, Chacha demands --
PHILLIP: The childless dog ladies enter the chat.
NAVARRO: -- equal treatment here. Right.
ALLISON: So does ZZ. She wants to be treated fairly. Equity.
PHILLIP: There's nothing wrong with childless cat or dog ladies.
NAVARRO: Iguanas, fish, hamsters, ferrets.
PHILLIP: Thank you all so much for watching "NewsNight" State of the Race. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
