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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Backs Florida Six-Week Abortion Ban After Suggesting the Opposite; Harris, Trump Virtually Tied With Voting to Start in Days; Poll Shows Harris as More Level-Headed, Mentally Fit; "NewsNight" Tackles State Of The Presidential Race 2024. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired August 30, 2024 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, anybody's ballgame, the polls, all of them show a 2024 race reset from a clear Trump advantage to no clear leader.
Plus, Donald Trump caught between a rock and a hard place, his track record on abortion.
REPORTER: You would veto an abortion ban if it was sent to your desk.
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, what's happening is you're never going to have to do it.
CORNISH: And voter support for fertility treatments.
TRUMP: I kept hearing that I'm against it and I'm actually very much for it.
CORNISH: And triggers conservative fury in the process.
And what she left unsaid.
KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Same old tired playbook. Next question, please.
CORNISH: Harris declines to enter the chat. Why she's ignoring the debate over Trump, race, and gender.
Live at the table, Nayyera Haq, Mike Dubke, Chuck Rocha, and Shermichael Singleton. Welcome to a special edition of NewsNight, State of the Race.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH (on camera): Good evening. I'm Audie Cornish in New York. Abby Phillip has the night off.
So, let's get right to what America is talking about. Where exactly does Donald Trump stand on abortion? The answer would depend on whether you asked him yesterday or today. For example, right now, his home state, Florida, has a six-week abortion ban. Last night, he was asked about a ballot measure that would amend the law and give women up to 24 weeks to make that decision. Here's how he answered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: So, you'll vote in favor of the amendment?
TRUMP: I'm voting that -- I am going to be voting that we need more than six weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: The backlash from anti abortion activists was immediate, Conservative Radio Host Erick Erickson, for example.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have never, and I will never vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights. Donald Trump came very close to sounding like he does yesterday. And if he loses in November, yesterday, August 29th, in the year of our Lord, 2024, will be the day he lost if he doesn't do some damage control pretty quickly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: So, message received. Trump's answer to the same question a day later, a bit more nuanced.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Are you voting yes or no on Amendment 4 in Florida?
TRUMP: So, I think six weeks, you need more time than six weeks. I've disagreed with that right from the early primaries when I heard about it, I disagreed with it. At the same time, the Democrats are radical because the nine months is just a ridiculous situation that where you can do an abortion in the ninth month. And, you know, some of the states like Minnesota and other states have it where you could actually execute the baby after birth. And all of that stuff is unacceptable. So, I'll be voting no for that reason.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: There is no state where executing a baby after birth is legal. The Harris-Walz campaign released a statement tonight making it clear that they believe his final answer is the one they'll be campaigning on, saying in part Donald Trump just made his position on abortion very clear he will vote to uphold an abortion ban, so extreme it applies before many women even know they are pregnant.
So, we are here with our panel to talk about this discussion. So, Mike, I want to talk to you because obviously you've worked with the Trump White House. So, you were there at the time when they had really solidified support from the anti-abortion activist movement, aimed at the backs of that movement. So, do you see a shift? MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Do I see a shift in the president's position? No. This has never been an issue that he has wanted to discuss outside, really outside of talking about the three Supreme Court justices that he appointed. My issue with this, frankly, from right now, and I think the reason we're talking about it tonight, is because there are these perceived shifts in his answer. And the enthusiasm on this issue has shifted from the pro-life to the pro-choice movements because of the decision on overturning Roe.
My advice to any political candidate on this is pick your position and stick to it. Otherwise, we're going to have this.
CORNISH: Okay. Here's where it gets complicated, because Trump and Vance have backed down on the national abortion ban idea, a crackdown on abortion pills, and restrictions on IVF.
[22:05:01]
So, I know you want to jump in here. Give me a sense of how this could be perceived, how to talk about it, because you're working with a lot of congressional lawmakers who are trying to win some races.
CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: It reminded me of when my granddaddy was teaching me how to do a fishing knot when I was a little boy. There's a lot of twists and a lot of turns. And the reason that is because this is their Achilles' heel. Because of what a Donald Trump did with the Supreme Court and because people know that, women are really bad. And there's one thing I know as a 55-year-old man, you don't want to get bad with a bunch of women because they're going to vote and show up and that's what they've been doing.
CORNISH: Yes. And you (INAUDIBLE) but you just got married. So I know that these are lessons you're just taking on board.
Shermichael for you, you're often the person who says like, look, this isn't exactly what he's saying, his positions have, in a way, always been moderate, maybe this is a return to the mean for him.
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean look, I think the former president has never had a clear and decisive thought process on abortion.
CORNISH: Well, he did. These are my Supreme Court justices. They will overturn it.
SINGLETON: Well, yes, I think that's a bit of politics.
CORNISH: But he says my justices.
SINGLETON: I understand that, Audie, but I don't think in terms of his personal, ideological, or philosophical beliefs, he is of the mindset that I'm either pro-right, or pro-life, rather, or pro-choice. I don't know if he thinks about it in those terms. With that said, I do think the pro-life community has to recognize that the political tides are shifting on this particular issue, from abortion rights to IVF. There are some that did not like his response on that issue, I think that's a bit problematic. It's not enough to win elections if you're turning off a sizable percent of voters who may agree with you on economics, on immigration, on foreign policy, but there's one particular issue you've crystallized that support for the other side. That's just not good electoral policy.
CORNISH: We won't let the man talk about this all night.
NAYYERA HAQ, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE SENIOR DIRECTOR: I will say that the majority of the American public consistently, since Roe v. Wade, was passed has supported the right to an abortion. Now, what has been represented at the state level has a certain side of the American population that maybe wasn't so hyper partisan and focused on this one issue, perhaps was asleep at the wheel for some time. That can be argued.
But in terms of the actual politics of this, general mass consensus as abortion as healthcare has been welcome.
CORNISH: Yes. Or we can say it this way. We've got a poll here that notes who voters think would be better to handle the issue. And, of course, that is to Harris, 55 percent over 38 percent. Quinnipiac also asked about whether or not it was extremely important in the choice for president among likely voters, I always like to underscore that, and for Democrats, of course, 53 percent, but independents, 27 percent. Is that what abortion rights activists are counting on?
HAQ: They are counting on women who have not been participating in the same rate, potentially as previously. The majority of the American public right now is unaffiliated. So, they're not part -- they don't identify along partisan lines, but they identify on issues. And abortion as health care is turning out, not just suburban women, but their spouses, right, the challenges that they're facing in the doctor's office, the fact that something as miraculous as IVF is now potentially on the chopping block as being illegal, all of this.
CORNISH: Does the Tim Walz discussion and second guessing his resume, and I'd like you to jump in here, does that distract from the conversation?
HAQ: And somebody (ph) asked that, because that gets to the idea of if somebody slips on one letter in a medical term, suddenly everything they're saying about that is wrong. A man standing up there and talking about fertility in the family is a very important conversation for Americans to hear. This is about starting families.
CORNISH: And is one of the big shifts culturally, Mike?
DUBKE: Yes, well I was just going to say, going back to IVF, what we're not talking about is the policy position that the Trump campaign took yesterday or the day before in terms of funding IVF.
CORNISH: Which was wild.
DUBKE: Which was wild.
CORNISH: I have to say, I mean, right, like the government is going to pay.
SINGLETON: It's not traditional conservative orthodontics.
DUBKE: It is not. It is not. But I think it's a tacit recognition by the campaign that they need to get -- they need to wrap their arms around this issue.
HAQ: Right. Because as Shermichael said, it's not a sincere belief. And to have something like health care and reproductive rights for women's bodies not be a sincerely had belief is a problem.
SINGLETON: Wait, that's definitely not what I said. I said that the president in terms of philosophical beliefs on this issue, I don't think it's deeply rooted.
HAQ: Exactly. That means he doesn't have a philosophical belief about whether or not women should control their own bodies.
CORNISH: I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Here's another way that someone might interpret that, which is, well, maybe I don't need to worry so much about what Donald Trump is going to do on abortion, because we all know it's not that big a deal to him.
ROCHA: This is why you see this. You see people acting abnormally. Let me promise you one thing in a campaign. They're not just out there saying things. Every now and then, Donald Trump will. That's why a lot of people hate him and love him because the polling says this in every race that I'm working in across the country, it's one of the top three issues.
But also Donald Trump knows he has to have his base too and has to have a lot of new people show up as well, that this IVR and others is a big deal or a big issue.
[22:10:03]
SINGLETON: He's obviously trying to moderate --
DUBKE: I'm actually quite surprised that you're saying it's one of the top three issues, because I have not --
ROCHA: In every single race.
DUBKE: I am flabbergasted by that because the polling that I've seen, it is similar to the polling --
CORNISH: Yes, I am not going to fact-check you, but they have a graphic so I have to show it. It's my duty. It says issues most important to voters, and this is from late August Quinnipiac, but abortion, while high, it's not the top.
ROCHA: Let me in fact-check you on this, and fact-check all of you.
CORNISH: Let's see. It's Friday night. We're ready.
ROCHA: If you can easily go look at every campaign that's being run right now online of what the T.V. ads are, and in every single congressional district in America, the abortion ad is the end of it all (ph).
DUBKE: I guarantee you, every Democrat is running an issue on abortion. That doesn't mean it's one of the top three issues that these constituents --
ROCHA: They wouldn't be running it if it wasn't working.
HAQ: The number one vulnerability -- right, what you're voting for is different than what the vulnerability is on the Republican side. It's a negative campaign.
CORNISH: And to Nayyera's point, if we can put that graphic up again, number three is SCOTUS. And I have to think abortion also has to do with that.
HAQ: And why is Trump running away from his own record and his own history on this issue?
SINGLETON: But is that enough to move --
CORNISH: I really want to hear this. Why run away from what was a success for the anti-abortion movement? It was a success.
SINGLETON: Is it enough to move voters in the middle over the economy, over immigration? I'm not convinced that, yes, it excites Democrats. I would agree with you on that point, Chuck.
HAQ: Then find something else.
SINGLETON: But I think voters in Pennsylvania are not going to be moved by reproductive rights more than issues of the economy.
CORNISH: Oh, but we know where they are because in the last election, Doug Mastriano really basically no --
SINGLETON: No, Doug Mastriano was not a good candidate, though.
CORNISH: But he talked about it.
SINGLETON: I think if we had a better candidate, we probably would have performed better in that race.
DUBKE: Exactly right. I mean, he was almost a one issue candidate.
SINGLETON: He was.
DUBKE: And, generally, one issue candidates do not perform well.
ROCHA: For two election cycles, we've used this as a motivational factor.
DUBKE: For five election cycles, you've used this.
ROCHA: I've done this for 34 years, and I've seen the Republicans do it on the other side pretty well as well, like this is something that both parties have fought against for many years.
DUBKE: I totally concede that the enthusiasm on this issue after the overturning of Roe is on the pro-choice on the Democrat side for this issue.
CORNISH: Also known as backlash.
DUBKE: Momentum, backlash.
CORNISH: Yes, he calls it a lot of potato patato. But, yes, it does, it has a whiff of backlash and potentially overreach.
DUBKE: And there is a reason why you have activists who are trying to put these constitutional amendments on the state constitutional on the ballot.
CORNISH: It doesn't undermine their effort if the guy who said leave it to the states can't answer a question about his own state? This is a comms question.
DUBKE: I think he has to.
CORNISH: I'm asking for your professional, right?
DUBKE: My professional answer here is what I said at the very beginning. Pick a position and stick to it. Because the voters are going to respect your values on this position, and much more so than going back and forth and back and forth, he's for fracking, against fracking, you know, that kind of thing.
SINGLETON: Look, I'm pro-life, and when we say that, I think we need to be clear on what that means. And a lot of people look at Republicans and they say, okay, you're anti-abortion. So, if someone has a child, are you going to support policies to help that individual take care of the child? What does that partnership look like?
And we need to roll that out as conservatives to say, we will be with you if you're struggling to have a child, to start a family. We haven't necessarily done that and we need to.
HAQW: That would be a wonderful pro life and pro family policy. That's not what we've seen the Republican Party do in Congress. And, in fact, the ability to even -- it went to the Senate and J.D. Vance vote it down, the idea of making IVF something that was accessible to most people. So --
CORNISH: Yes, I remember at the time the arguments there from senators was we don't need to do this, because it's not actually in jeopardy, but I understand as a message vote, it was a difficult one.
Please stay with us because we're going to talk about some other issues because we are in the final stretch of the 2024 campaign. New polling shows that it's still anyone's race and we're going to have a special guest who'll join us in our fifth seat to discuss it. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
CORNISH: Labor Day marks the time when the election marathon turns into a sprint, and the country enters this last part of the story far from decided. New polling this week shows the contest between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris as no clear leader.
Joining us now in our fifth seat is National Political Reporter Jessica Washington. Now, Jessica, Kamala Harris has momentum, we can say at least, compared to what Joe Biden had. Can you talk about what's going on in terms of like where the campaign is focusing its time?
JESSICA WASHINGTON, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. So the campaign I think is clearly trying to, I mean, they're trying to keep this enthusiasm going. We saw in this new polling that the enthusiasm is high for Kamala Harris. So, I think with that convention, they're trying to --
CORNISH: And when we say that, do we mean high within the groups where Biden was soft, because that was the concern, right?
WASHINGTON: Yes, so we are seeing that she is doing better with groups that have been softening on Biden, I think, particularly with black voters, you know, there are -- and with women, she has been performing even better. I mean, across multiple different groups, she's been performing much stronger than Biden.
I think with younger voters, we are going to have to see if this new pivot to the center ends up impacting some of that enthusiasm down the line, for sure.
CORNISH: Okay. Before I want to jump in on that, because I want you to explain it, what do you count as pivot to the center? I think everyone here would be able to comment on that.
WASHINGTON: Yes. I mean, I definitely think, you know, when we're seeing the way she's talked about immigration, really highlighting border security over some of the ways that Democrats have talked about immigration before in previous conventions. I mean, you know, I heard you guys mentioned fracking. I think that's, you know, an obvious sign.
[22:20:00]
There are just kind of multiple different ways you can see, or I think highlighting her record as a prosecutor is a big way that we can talk about this too. I think in 2020 in particular, we saw her kind of have to run away from that a little bit. You know, try and avoid this, Kamala is a cop (ph), kind of things that have come after her.
So, I do think we're seeing a pivot to the center and whether or not that ends up hurting some of this enthusiasm that she's clearly gained with young voters. I think we have to wait and see.
CORNISH: Yes, Chuck?
ROCHA: There's a great thing about campaigns and that there's a finish line. And everything, the thing you need to know about a campaign is that there's one thing you can never get back, and that is time and it's Labor Day. That means ballots are going out in the western states in like 30 days. It's a race. Watch where they go.
CORNISH: Yes, we could say that. Mail-in ballots available, let's see, North Carolina, September 6th, Wisconsin, September 19th, Michigan, September 26th, Georgia at least gives us all the way to October 7th.
ROCHAR: Watch where they travel to, watch where they travel to because it's too late for anything cute or head nods or fake outs. Where they go is where their polling says they should be going.
CORNISH: Okay. Before I pivot then, what do you consider something cute?
ROCHA: Going to Florida.
CORNISH: Okay, something cute?
HAQ: Trying to run away from what you've already been. And I would say that for her, she has always been a prosecutor, leaning into I'm going to prosecute the case for reproductive rights, works very well for her in this moment.
CORNISH: What works less well?
HAQ: She was never going to get the Kamala the cop people anyway, right? They might have stayed home They might have gone some kind of odd third party and I do think third parties are a concern, but she needs to not het led by Trump or fall into a frame that the Republicans are putting for her and continue to just talk directly to the American people.
CORNISH: Okay. Wait. One other thing, this is where we -- you said, emotionally, and that people -- Harris viewed as more level headed, mentally fit. We're looking at polling from Quinnipiac about how they are comparing candidates in terms of qualities, leadership, whether they care about you. She's closed the gaps in a lot of ways. Vulnerabilities for him?
DUBKE: So, I'm going to go back to what we were talking about, only because --
CORNISH: You were talking about fracking again?
DUBKE: No. This is -- well, yes.
CORNISH: I thought about it.
DUBKE: It is going to be about fracking because this is a senator who was voting to the left of Bernie Sanders when she was in office. When she ran in 2019, she was against fracking, Medicare for all, decriminalizing the border. Now, all of those positions have shifted on her. When you ask if she's going to the center, heck, yes, she's running to the center, but will it last?
This is where I really want the Trump administration to do two things, or the Trump campaign. Talk about Biden Harris all the time and then talk about her record, the record that she had for years and years and years, that in the last 40 days that she's been on the national stage has somehow evaporated and shifted and --
SINGLETON: It's a whole new person.
(CROSSTALKS)
CORNISH: Hold on one minute, okay? Vulnerabilities is what I'm asking. Where is Trump vulnerable right now?
SINGLETON: You're going to throw that one to me since Mike didn't necessarily answer it. So, look, I think --
CORNISH: What's cute?
SINGLETON: I think not being able to stay disciplined can become a very serious problem for him. I think Mike was right about trying to find a message on the reproductive issue that's somewhat mainstream without isolating or turning off evangelicals, they need to figure that out. But he's incredibly strong on the economy, he's incredibly strong on immigration, foreign policy, I'm just going to throw it out there all day.
CORNISH: What's a head nod? Because we know this in campaign land, right? All of a sudden someone's in a state and you're like, why are they there? What to you would be something that doesn't make sense that you'd be worried about?
DUBKE: And that's why Hillary Clinton lost in 2016. She was in --
ROCHA: Look, I'm a Democrat, I agree with that.
CORNISH: So, for Trump, what could that be? What's a vulnerability?
DUBKE: Keep talking about how I won more votes in California. I mean, why are we talking -- you know, California's a terrible -- that's going to go for Harris.
ROCHA: But I also ran Bernie Sanders --
(CROSSTALKS)
CORNISH: Well, by the way, he is spending his time that's fascinating to me is being at the Moms for Liberty speech event tonight.
ROCHA: He was on the couch. That's all I remember. It was awkward.
CORNISH: But that's a group started in Florida. People may remember it as part of the post-pandemic, anti-woke, anti-DEI indoctrination kind of school movement. But when I see it, I think women in the suburbs, what -- did that mean anything to you seeing him trying to kind of campaign and work with that constituency? WASHINGTON: Yes, I mean, Trump has a major vulnerability with women. I think that's clear. It was clear even before he was running against a woman who's incredibly popular and, you know, not incredibly popular among women, definitely compared to Trump. So, obviously, this is a group that he's going to try and cater to.
Now, I think the vulnerability for Trump, if we want to put it in that way, is that these kinds of groups are considered by many voters, by many people in the United States, as, quote/unquote, weird, this phrase that we keep seeing, you know, tossed out time and time again.
CORNISH: In that case, because of book bans, et cetera.
[22:25:01]
WASHINGTON: Yes, because of these book bans. These kinds of things that are not generally popular with all Americans, that are considered kind of fringe. And obviously there are people who are pushing these issues very intensely, who care about this very intensely. They're loud, they're out there, and it can seem as if it's more popular than it is. But I think a lot of Americans find this strange.
HAQ: I mean, it's a mom's group that he was able to get access to, but they're very extreme in their positions in policies. I'm a suburban mother. This is not typically what people think or look like, but diversity, you know, like it's all changing in suburbia, millennial moms.
CORNISH: It's worth noting they're famous in part because they ran for office and were successful being on school boards, et cetera.
HAQ: And that I think is where we now are going to see the backlash of other women who were not as active and not as engaged, realize that being asleep politically has resulted in school environments that we don't like, pulling back on our own freedoms and reproductive rights, and that's the silent majority, the unaffiliated American right now that I think is going to come out in droves this election cycle.
DUBKE: I thought we had to go, so I was going to jump in. But this group is a backlash to the extremism of the NEA and other teacher associations and wanting to put parents --
SINGLETON: And COVID shutdowns.
DUBKE: And with COVID shutdowns and giving parents the ability to work with their children and work with the schools that was denied by a lot of these very extreme movements on the left.
HAQ: Fact-check, this is actually not a grassroots localized movement. It is a national movement with lobbyists that have managed to find the couple of people in different key districts that they've been able to activate. Very successful --
ROCHA: Fact-check, when I tuned in, there was four big dudes in cowboy hats singing on stage and I felt awkward. I'm just saying it right now. CORNISH: Everyone stick around for this rodeo.
Next, the road Kamala Harris will not travel. Our panel weighs in on why the Democratic nominee is carefully choreographing her answers about race, shying away from attacking her opponent who has questioned her racial identity.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:31:32]
CORNISH: Welcome back. So, this year's election cycle is taking a different path from 2016, specifically when it comes to taking on Donald Trump. Because back then, Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton directly addressed Trump's attacks on, let's say, women. Here's an example during her DNC acceptance speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D) 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They thought he couldn't possibly mean all the horrible things he says, like when he called women pigs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Later, Trump kind of wades into similar slurry territory, this time against Kamala Harris. But the difference is, unlike Clinton, Harris seems uninterested.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: What I want to ask you about is what he said last month. He suggested that you happened to turn black recently for political purposes, questioning a core part of your identity.
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE (D): Yeah.
BASH: Any --
HARRIS: Same old tired playbook. Next question, please.
BASH: That's it?
HARRIS: That's it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: All right, I want to talk about this shift with you guys because I have a thesis that kind of like post-awakening, which is what I call the great short-lived awakening after the death of George Floyd and the protests that happened.
The backlash involved being anti-DEI, anti-woke -- we mentioned Moms for Liberty earlier, and it really became even more radioactive than in the past to say, like, you're calling me a racist, right? That was fighting words in the office. So, it feels like Democrats are maybe backing off of the "awakening" vibes. Tell me I'm wrong, these are just thesis.
OBAMA WHITE HOUSE SENIOR DIRECTOR: I think you're wrong, yeah, and here's why. I think the -- Trump is known, he's a known quantity.
CORNISH: But doesn't he want to be called racist and then you get to tell your voters, look, this is how they talk about you.
HAQ: Bingo. So, that's exactly why she's not going to fall in that trap and she's certainly not going to to justify her identity to a bridge and tunnel guy from Queens from the 1980s who's like, oh, I'm going to tell you what you are and what you're not, right? Like just the whole paradigm, she's like, no. I'm good, thank you very much.
CORNISH: I mean, I'm not going to hate on Bridge and Tunnel people, just make sure we put that under her.
HAQ: That's how I grew up.
CORNISH: Exactly, yeah, exactly.
HAQ: I grew up Bridge and Tunnel. I know of what I speak. I know of what I speak.
CORNISH: Mike, let me see your eyebrows here, come on.
DUBKE: Was that good? Was that on camera? I don't know.
CORNISH: We don't need to get into his comment because I think at the time, he was talking to these reporters at the National Association of Black Journalists, he wades into this territory. But what is the point going forward? Is it to hope Democrats start talking about this stuff and then --
DUBKE: Oh, I guarantee you some Democrats will. I think this is really smart political instinct on the part of the vice president. And moving off of having these --
CORNISH: Meaning letting other people talk about it.
DUBKE: Let other people talk about it. And others will.
CORNISH: I think you had the same thought.
ROCHA: Yeah.
CORNISH: Yeah, especially in the media. We can't resist.
WASHINGTON: Exactly, yeah. And I really think if she had said something -- yeah, well, but if she had said something --
CORNISH: Welcome to the program.
WASHINGTON: We're a part of it.
CORNISH: It's not even Black History Month. I'm here for it.
ROCHA: Put your mic up on something that's incredibly hard to do. So, I guess --
WASHINGTON: Oh, sorry. No.
CORNISH: No, go ahead.
ROCHA: I want to back up, Mike on what he said about having discipline, having put people in this position, writing the speech for them and saying, don't say this, is her saying that she's not going to wait into it.
[22:35:00]
When my first instinct as a Mexican redneck would have been, I've been black my whole life and look right back at her, because I'd have got mad. She was very disciplined, because if she would have done that as a consultant and a strategist, that's what we all would have talked about for two weeks, is that and how she put them in their place and oh, she's bad. She got to be more presidential and be disciplined in the moment.
SINGLETON: But we have seen a lot, even at the corporate level, a lot of corporations roll back DEI efforts, a lot of universities and institutions cancel out some of those roles. And so, I think the vice president is perhaps aware of this cultural shift, Audie, and she's a woman, she's black, that's sort of obvious.
CORNISH: Yeah.
SINGLETON: I don't think it needs to be said.
CORNISH: But I mean, remember when she first came out, I remember seeing a cascade of DEI hire, talking about her. Like that was a thing conservatives were saying online.
HAQ: And so now, let them say that, and let her present herself as the daughter of hardworking middle-class Americans, right? The ability to relate to people on the economy, on their lived experience.
And yes, obviously she has a diverse background and upbringing, but in connecting to Americans, which is typically what the right-wing complaint has been is you're putting up a color barrier to get in the way of all of this. And if that's the complaint, she's not falling into that. Where does that right wing argument go?
SINGLETON: I thought it was smart. I mean, there are some voters who probably don't necessarily want to constantly be reminded of that. I'm not saying that's a good thing, obviously. She knows who she is. She's spoken at a great lengths about her background.
We all know she's a black woman. You don't need to keep debating it. She's talking about why she's running. She's talking about her positions. I don't necessarily agree with them, but I think she is doing this the right way on this particular issue. ROCHA: But without saying that, voter registration for black women and
brown women is through the roof. There's one thing you can't lie about is voter rich, and we have the numbers. And when the states reports -- if you look at Target Smart Data, just put this out yesterday, the increase has been over 500 percent with black women and Latino women of -- register -- to vote.
WASHINGTON: Yeah, I think it's like you said it's baked in people know that she's a black woman they know that she's proud of her identity she doesn't need to keep saying it. I think also, frankly, and what I was following online, people did start to buy into some of these arguments that Donald Trump had made about her racial identity.
And every time it comes up, there are going to be people in the comments section who continue to spread disinformation and misinformation about race and her race in particular. I think we've all seen it.
And so, I think it's very smart not to give that any more oxygen because those people are never going to believe her when she says in an interview, I'm black, I've always been black. The people who want to. you know, believe that misinformation. So, I think it's smart not to give it anymore oxygen.
CORNISH: The other thing I'm curious about is for a time, I feel like we were all reporting about Trump curious black and brown men.
ROCHA: Yes.
CORNISH: And this clearly has changed the dynamic, but I don't know how, what do you actually see?
ROCHA: As a non-college educated brown man, which won't shock none of you viewers after how I talk, this is a real thing that's happening out there because it's a relatability. Presidential elections are different than congressional races. Presidential races are about people you trust or you like or you feel like you have something in common with.
They didn't feel like they had anything in common with Joe Biden. Some of them feel like they do or they don't with Donald Trump. This has changed fundamentally on the ground. It hasn't fixed all the problems. But you can see in poll measured against poll to where you see a relatability even with Latino and black men.
SINGLETON: Yeah, you even see some will say, well, the Democratic Party has become too feminine. It's too much about women only, if you look at some qualitative reports on that.
CORNISH: Yeah, we remember Jim Carville's pre-chief emails of the Democratic Party.
SINGLETON: Well, I mean, I know people didn't like it, but I think James Carville was kind of right. And I think some of these men, younger men of color, are looking for some type of restorative effort on the economic front. Women of color are superseding us academically. They're going to college at higher rates, graduated at higher rates. And a lot of these younger men are saying, well, what about us? And Trump appears to be providing some type of an answer to that.
CORNISH: Yeah, okay, next topic for next show. Maybe I'll have you on the podcast because obviously, the gender gap is a real issue to be discussed and it's an area of vulnerability for both candidates. I want everyone to hold on. We have more to discuss.
Next, on a lighter note, when is the thumbs up? Not a thumbs up. We'll discuss. But first I want to note that coming up on Monday night, Abby Phillip and I will be examining five key issues from both presidential candidates ahead of the November election.
It's going to be part of a two-hour special for the whole story with Anderson Cooper. Now, one major immigration that I looked at in terms of a unique hurdle for the vice president was immigration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH (voice-over): Her first official trip abroad as vice president, Guatemala, in June of 2021. She talked about the role of women in economic development there. But Harris also delivered a stark message.
HARRIS: I want to be clear to folks in this region who are thinking about making that dangerous trek to the United States-Mexico border. Do not come. Do not come.
[22:40:00]
The United States will continue to enforce our laws and secure our border.
CORNISH: "Do not come. Do not come." What was her reaction to how that was received?
ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR VP KAMALA HARRIS: It wasn't real receive coming from the daughter of immigrants and a black woman.
ETIENNE: So that was a moment in which I think we realized that, okay, we have to talk about these things differently. Although it's the company line, we can't toe that line in the same way that Joe Biden can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:45:05]
CORNISH: Okay, deceptively easy question, what do you think when I do this? Now, say I were to do that thumbs up at Gettysburg. You might feel a lot different, right? Well, tonight, Jonathan Last of "The Bulwark" wants us all to think about why Donald Trump is always giving the thumbs up, no matter where he goes. The latest film evidence is from Arlington National Cemetery, where Trump gave a thumbs up next to grieving family members and graves.
So, we're back with my panel. Everyone has talked about this week in the context of just was he supposed to be there? The army hitting back. The reason why we're talking about this is this is a candidate on the trail trying to send a message. What is the message sent by the thumbs up?
DUBKE: There's no message. That's the part I just have to fundamentally disagree on this. This is an individual that's been in the public eye for 40 years. He gets a lot of pictures taken when he was on "The Apprentice" when he was doing all of this. That is his signature move. It's not particular -- I don't particularly love it.
CORNISH: You don't read anything into it.
DUBKE: I don't read anything into it. When he's having his photo taken, it is like second nature for him to do that.
CORNISH: It is. Here's some examples. Here he is with Kyle Rittenhouse, who is best known for shooting somebody. And also, a family. Here he is with Melania. I think the thing I see in it is you have this -- he's our T.V. candidate, right? The way Reagan was our movie star candidate. And I feel like he lives in 2D. He's always got to look the same in every single photo. It's like brand consistency.
HAQ: That photo, the second photo of Melania, that's a baby who was orphaned, right? And he's like, hey, we're here to smile with this baby that we don't know what's happened to their parents. What's going to happen to this baby? It's the idea of the context doesn't matter, but it's a very online thing to do. There's a whole subculture of going to a funeral and posing next to the open casket.
CORNISH: How do you know about this? Where are you hanging out online? Is it Reddit? Yeah. It's a reddit place.
WASHINGTON: No, I think it's very online. I think branding yourself in this way is very online. He's not connecting to the moment that he's in. And I think --
CORNISH: He is the moment that he's in. That's the argument that the billboard is making.
WASHINGTON: And I think that's a good point. And I think also just thinking about him and J.D. Vance, I mean, we saw J.D. Vance go to that donut shop and be really awkward. I think what we're seeing is just awkward people who are struggling to connect with other human beings and this really -- and be natural in the moment.
DUBKE: He's been doing this for years and years and years.
SINGLETON: And everyone who works for Trump. I mean, from the campaign in 2016, the people who worked in the administration, they're all doing it, all of my old friends. I see photos and everybody has a thumbs up.
CORNISH: I think you guys are making a good point. The reason why I'm talking about it though is because times change. And isn't this the kind of thing that makes, it's hard to beat the weird allegations this way.
HAQ: And it's the idea of the former commander in chief, he's not just a candidate, the former commander of chief doesn't get the difference of a regular photo op and being at Arlington Cemetery.
ROCHA: And if we get the brand thing, I mean, folks understand the brand thing. I am a brown man who sounds like an old white man when I talk and I wear a cowboy hat most of the time. I understand what brands do and it's good for my brand. But I also know that my mama says, at 10 o'clock at night with these lights, she can't see my eyes. So, I leave the brand at the house because it's just common sense.
CORNISH: You're going with the time and the place argument.
ROCHA: Right.
CORNISH: I want to let you guys finish your thought though. Like is there, it's hard, times change. And people are now looking at all the same stuff Trump used to do differently and Democrats are treating it differently. So, is this another thing that makes you vulnerable to being like, this guy seems like a weirdo? Which is kind of the argument Democrats are making.
DUBKE: Bottom line is, Democrats are trying to take the playbook that Republicans used against Joe Biden. Except I don't think it works as well, because, you know, as somebody else said, he can walk down a staircase, and he knows which store to go to, so it's not the same situation that you had with Biden.
But there are certain things. He's been doing this for so long. It is such second nature. We can read all of this into it. And it was an interesting article and it was inappropriate in all of that sense.
CORNISH: We should say the list of things inappropriate about that moment was quite long. We're picking the smallest one.
SINGLETON: I mean how many voters are going to change their minds because they read that article from the book?
CORNISH: No, that's not the way I'm looking at it. I'm asking this question because we are in a sprint towards the end of the election, and every moment matters, and is this how you spend it?
SINGLETON: Yeah, Audie, I get it. I'm just not certain Democrats can utilize that to move the needle forward with some constituency out there that looks at that and says, oh my God, I need to vote Democratic now.
HAQ: It's not just about Democrats.
SINGLETON: I just don't see that.
HAQ: Trump's entire message is make America great again, going backwards, so him not changing and doing the same thing over and over again just reinforces.
[22:50:00]
SINGLETON: But you know what, there are a lot of voters out there who are saying America's not great right now economically and I do want to go back a couple of years.
DUBKE: I want to go back four years to when inflation was non- existent, we had lower, you know, interest rates and all of that. Yes, there it is.
ROCHA: We're still talking about what he did at the cemetery. That's what I'm saying is he's not getting to talk about that because they took an opportunity that should have been a slam dunk easy.
And he has an issue to have with Biden's and what happened in Afghanistan and all the things. But now we're talking about the thumbs and him doing something disrespectful in a veteran's cemetery. As a political professional who runs these things, that's a no-no. You just don't keep talking about this four days later.
SINGLETON: There was definitely an advantage for the former president because the families invited him and not the sitting president. So, you're right about that.
ROCHA: We're still talking about it.
UNKNOWN: They are still talking about it.
UNKNOWN: They're not about the veterans.
CORNISH: I want to thank you all for being here on a Friday night before Labor Day. I appreciate your time. Next. The panel is going to give us their night caps. But first, another clip from a two-hour special airing Monday night as part of the whole story with Anderson Cooper. And you're also going to hear about from Abby Phillips, who's taking a look at how Trump handled tensions between the U.S. and North Korea in 2018.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The public battle of words between the leader of the most powerful military on Earth.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE (R): Rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself.
PHILLIP: And one of the world's most reclusive dictators reached a dangerous peak on New Year's Day in 2018. Kim Jong-un warned that he had a nuclear button on his desk and all of the U.S. mainland was within range.
TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: I think, about Donald Trump, he likes to be alpha man. He wants to be tough. And somebody's challenging him, he challenges back. PHILLIP: That same evening, Trump sent a tweet that shook the White
House and the world. "I, too, have a nuclear button, but it is a much bigger and more powerful one than his. And my button works." How big of a concern was it among Trump's aides that there could be a nuclear confrontation on the horizon
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND FORMER CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think it depends on who you ask. But one thing they knew is they were dealing with two unpredictable leaders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:57:04]
CORNISH: We're back and it's time for the "NewsNightcap". You each have 30 seconds to say your piece. Mike Dubke, you're up first.
DUBKE: All right, I'll go. I think we need more trials. And by that, I mean, the high watermark for the Trump campaign was when he was on trial in New York City. And it was when he was most disciplined because he was sitting in a trial all day long. Surrogates were out there talking about immigration, talking about inflation, talking about the international crisis that Biden-Harris administration couldn't take care of and he had to stay quiet because of that gag order and he was leading by 10 points at that point. I think we need more trials.
CORNISH: Okay, Chuck.
ROCHA: I'm anti-trials, but anyway, going back to my thing, I've taken up my time. Every day somebody asks me, what are we going to do about Latino men? They're running to the Republican party. What's happening with Latino men?
Watch Ruben Gallego running for the U.S. Senate. He's going to have a blueprint in Arizona. It's the blueprint of what you can be doing. If you're a Marine, grew up in a single mama household and he's running a really good campaign that people should bring attention to.
CORNISH: Okay, Shermichael.
SINGLETON: I mean, look, it's Friday, there's a holiday weekend coming up. It is all about the psychedelics. So, New York, Oregon, New Hampshire, Arizona. What? Alaska or all states that have either --
CORNISH: You're going into the weekend. That's what it sounds like.
SINGLETON: -- exploring this idea of making psychedelics a legal substance. And a lot of veterans' groups are saying, hey, we need this for PTSD purposes. Maybe some of the candidates should explore this and make this campaign a little funner.
CORNISH: And talk about your interest in this, personally. SINGLETON: I just think it's fascinating because we're talking a lot
about legalizing marijuana, a host of other drugs. And here are veterans' groups saying --
CORNISH: Yeah, this is close to hey, being like, are you high right now?
SINGLETON: I am not high right now. I am not high right now.
CORNISH: Yeah, yeah.
SINGLETON: But hey, some people like psychedelics.
CORNISH: Shermichael --not high right now.
HAQ: Perhaps later.
SINGLETON: No comment.
HAQ: Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes today said that Taylor Swift is no longer on the bleachers. She has been drawing up football plays ahead of this upcoming season. Now, Mahomes is the teammate of Taylor's boyfriend, Travis Kelsey. So, of course, he cares about Taylor's. reputation, especially since she's BFF with the wife, Brittany.
It's worth noting that Taylor typically says that she is a student of Aristotle, but clearly, she, too, knows how to ball. Young girls and women very excited by the fact that Taylor has invited them into the game of football. And when the Chiefs won the Super Bowl last year, which was really hard as a 49ers fan, really hard, Taylor proved that she not only loves the players, she loves the game.
So, will she be criticized? Yes, but I think she will shake it off, all of that criticism. She's her own mastermind, and I doubt that coming up with football plays is her endgame. And she will prove that if she were the man, she'd be the man.
SINGLETON: Shake it off with psychedelics. I like that.
CORNISH: You've got a -- you've got a chance on this business. Would you like to work here?
[23:00:00]
HAQ: There is no pun that I have met that I've never heard.
CORNISH: Everybody, thank you so much. Thank you for watching "NewsNight State of the Race". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
