Return to Transcripts main page
CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Nikki Haley To GOP, Are You Trying To Lose The Election; Sen. Joe Manchin (I-WV) Won't Endorse Harris After Roe Filibuster Remarks; U.S Republicans Delete Past Support for Lt. Gov. Mark Robinson (R-NC); "NewsNight" Panelists Debate On U.S Economy State During Trump Administration; Missouri State Executes Marcellus Williams. Aired 10- 11p ET
Aired September 24, 2024 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, women, men, and the issue that could tilt the election.
KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We should eliminate the filibuster for Roe.
PHILLIP: Why Kamala Harris and abortion rights are riling up the electorate.
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (I-WV): Shame on her. Shame on her.
PHILLIP: Plus, ballot busters, conservatives accuse MAGA of forfeiting elections over toxic candidates.
Also, he famously described Donald Trump's first moment on the job.
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: George W. Bush says to me, well, that was some weird shit.
PHILLIP: But as November draws closer, silence from 43. Should that change?
And a surreal new square for your 2024 bingo card by Mark Cuban says Trump is more socialist than Bernie Sanders.
Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Keith Boykin, Marc Lotter and Karen Finney. 41 days to go. Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about. Are Republicans trying to lose the election? That is from Nikki Haley tonight. As the gender gap between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump is widening exactly six weeks before Election Day, one of Haley's reasons for that comment is this from a Republican Senate candidate in Ohio. It was released by his Democratic opponent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERNIE MORENO (R), OHIO SENATE CANDIDATE: Sadly, by the way, there's a lot of suburban women. A lot of suburban women that are like, listen, abortion is in. If I can't have an abortion in this country whenever I want, I will vote for anybody else. Okay, a little crazy, by the way, but especially for women that are like past 50, I thinking to myself, I don't think that's an issue for you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Now, Kamala Harris is running aggressively on this issue of abortion, of course. And this morning, she reiterated that she supports eliminating the filibuster to restore Roe versus Wade protections. Now, keep in mind, her position on that is not new, but this is how Senator Joe Manchin reacted to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANCHIN: She knows that filibuster is the Holy Grail for democracy. It's the only thing that keeps us talking and working together. If you get rid of that, then this would be the House on steroids.
REPORTER: You're not going to endorse her?
MANCHIN: I'm not endorsing, never. I think that's basically something that can destroy our country, and my country is more important to me than any one person or any one person's ideology.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: And, finally, Donald Trump himself, who bragged about overturning Roe, is making this declaration to America's women.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You will be protected and I will be your protector.
Women will be happy, healthy, confident and free. You will no longer be thinking about abortion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: There's absolutely no more subtlety left in politics, apparently. But let's start with Joe Manchin, because he said, never. He will never endorse in this race. And this is the issue. It's one that dates back a couple of years for Vice President Harris. But is he right to a degree that there are more downsides to upsides of eliminating the filibuster?
KEITH BOYKIN, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE AIDE: Obviously, I disagree. I've been a long time opponent of the filibuster. The filibuster is not in the Constitution. It's not required to have it in the United States Senate. It started by accident in 1805. They tried to fix it in 1917, tried to fix it again in the 1970s. They lowered the threshold. It's not some part of the Holy Grail of the United States.
PHILLIP: He said it's the Holy Grail.
BOYKIN: He said it's the Holy Grail of democracy. And the irony of it is that the filibuster was used to thwart democracy. It was used to block the Voting Rights Act in 1965.
[22:05:01]
It was used to block the extension of the Voting Rights Act in the 2000s.
So, the idea that Joe Manchin is saying this is an essential part of our democracy, it just seems preposterous.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'll take the other side of it. I do think --
BOYKIN: I'm surprised. I'm surprised.
JENNINGS: Well, I wanted to let you finish and make all your points. I think Manchin is right. It does force both parties in the Senate, a closely divided Senate, and what will continue to be a closely divided Senate, to talk and work together and define bipartisan common ground on big issues. You don't have this in the House. The party that's in the majority can usually work its will, but in the Senate, I think most Americans would think it is a good thing.
Now, Harris has been on a journey in 2017 when Trump was the president, she signed a letter saying she wanted to protect the filibuster. Then she changed her position in '22. Now she says she wants to change it for this one issue. I guess they could do that, but I would be surprised if a Senate next year, which is highly likely to be controlled by Republicans, would be interested in changing the filibuster just for abortion legislation.
PHILLIP: I mean, just to Scott's point, okay, here's what Kyrsten Sinema, who obviously Democrats are no big fans of hers, but here's what she has to say. To state the extremely obvious, eliminating the filibuster to codify Roe versus Wade also enables a future Congress to ban all abortion nationwide. What an absolutely terrible, shortsighted idea. I mean, that's got to be a fear. It's got to be a fear.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But this actually goes back to 2022. After the 2020 election, we saw a rash of anti-voting rights legislation being passed at the state level. We needed two votes to get the John Lewis Voting Rights Act passed and an update of just the Voting Rights Act, and the filibuster stood in the way.
And Joe Manchin knows that. I don't care how you feel about the filibuster, this is performative bull from Joe Manchin, which he's very good at, by the way. It's the specialty of his. I've known him a long time because he knows -- I mean, I can tell you that in focus groups with black voters, they will -- Charlamagne tha God, even in his interview with The New York Times, talked about Joe Manchin blocking the Voting Rights Act using the filibuster. The conversation at the time was, should we have a carve-out for issues around constitutional rights? So it was actually around voting rights and reproductive rights. That was added to the conversation after Dobbs was overturned.
So, he's being so disingenuous. This is an excuse for him to say, I'm not going to vote for Kamala.
MARC LOTTER, FORMER STRATEGIC COMMS DIRECTOR, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN: But how many times do we have to go down this slippery slope and for Democrats to make the mistake that they later pay for? I mean, it was Harry Reid who eliminated the filibuster to pass Barack Obama's cabinet secretaries on a straight line party vote. And then flash forward five, six, seven years later, Neil Gorsuch and the Supreme Court justices are done the exact same way.
PHILLIP: Let me go back to the issue of abortion here for a second because I think that's what undergirds all of this. I mean, you heard what Trump said, you heard what Harris said, you heard what Bernie Moreno said. His staff, I should say, they said it was a tongue in cheek joke. However, it's almost as if Republicans are recognizing this is not a good issue for them and they're just like, well, we're never going to get those ladies.
FINNEY: I thought you were going to file this to respond. I didn't --
JENNINGS: I mean, I think a couple things. On the Moreno comment, which we played, I always tell candidates, don't be a comedian, because you're not, and don't be a pundit, because you're not. You're a candidate. And when you're talking about issues and you're talking about people, even people that may disagree with you on an issue, you have to do so with great care and understanding their views and also understanding there may be other issues you can talk to them about. They may not agree with you on this, but maybe they would agree with you on that. You sort of forfeit that when you start to become flip and kind of a pundit on your own thing.
So, my advice to Moreno would be, look, maybe you've got some disagreements here, but what should you be talking about? And this goes for Trump too. The economy, cost of living, food prices, immigration, public safety, those are things.
PHILLIP: They got to figure out how to talk about abortion. I mean, this is one of the top issues for voters.
FINNEY: I'm going to add one thing just because I agree with Scott's two rules. My other rule to candidates is always, you are always on. Somebody has a phone, they're recording you, so you're never having a private conversation, so shut up. Just don't do it, right?
JENNINGS: True.
FINNEY: But with regard to this, I mean, you know, this seeming attack, and I will say as a single woman who does not have children, it is starting to feel like a bit of an attack, you know, we're being attacked because we're old and now our wombs are drying up and we have to -- we should just be grandmothers or, you know, and raise somebody else's kids, or, you know, there's something wrong with us if we don't have children.
And it's so out of touch with the reality that it's why 57 percent of Ohioans voted to codify Roe v. Wade, and it's about rights. It's about our fundamental freedom. As a woman in her 50s I literally had a right taken away from me two years ago, that is how a lot of women feel regardless of whether or not you are childbearing age.
[22:10:05]
LOTTER: But one thing I think we should also point out though, and I agree with you, Scott, 100 percent, don't be a pundit, don't be a comic. And I think he phrased it badly. What he was trying -- I'm not going to say what he was trying to say. I saw it.
FINNEY: Please don't. You don't want to go there, brother.
LOTTER: I don't want to do that. But I did see there was a Kaiser Family Foundation poll earlier this year, this summer, actually, it was about a month or so ago, of women, abortion ranked tenth. It was only 10 percent named it as the top issue for 2024. It was the economy, it was immigration, it was the things that we were talking about. And so while 10 percent, they're probably already committed in terms of who they're going to support, whether they are pro-life or they're pro-abortion, you know who you're supporting. But it's the other 90 percent you've also --
BOYKIN: I think you misread the statistic. The fact that it's tenth on the list, I'm not sure what that list is. It doesn't mean that only 10 percent of women care about it.
LOTTER: 10 percent (INAUDIBLE).
PHILLIP: And I would say, I understand that other polls, including a CNN/SSRS poll just this week, it's number three in terms of the top issues. So, it's after the economy, it's after protecting democracy, but --
FINNEY: And eight in ten Americans support Roe v. Wade. So, I don't know where your 10 percent comes from, but it's a majority issue.
PHILLIP: But Republicans are not only struggling, but Trump is just now saying, well, I'll be your protector, as if that addresses the issue. He absolutely doesn't.
BOYKIN: And he has no credibility on this issue. He is the one who appointed the three justices who overturned Roe versus Wade, Dobbs is because of Donald Trump. If it weren't for Donald Trump, women would still have the right to have control over their own bodies in this country. But one out of three women in the country now live in states with a Trump abortion ban. And every state that has had this on as a constitutional amendment is a ballot measure. Six states have had it and every state has approved allowing women the right to have control over their own bodies, which is what the right was for all of our lives. And the fact that the Republican Party wants to go back and now Donald Trump and J.D. Vance and others are realizing that they made a big, huge mistake, and they're trying to figure out how do they dig out of it. And he can't even come up with a straight answer of what his opinion is on the amendment in Florida.
JENNINGS: Well, he's not voting for the amendment.
BOYKIN: But he had to change his opinion to get there.
JENNINGS: I actually think he has a fairly moderate and defensible position on this topic.
FINNEY: (INAUDIBLE), I know it.
JENNINGS: And, yes, because it's been our party's position going back for a very long time. It is possible to be where most Americans are, some reasonable limits, and people disagree, but it could be between, you know, 15 and 20 weeks. He believes in the three exceptions, rape, incest, and life of the mother, which has widespread support. He believes in IVF technologies, and, heck, even wants to pay for some of it, which, even as a fiscal conservative, you know, concerns some Republicans. But that's a pretty moderate, defensible position.
That having been said, nothing is going to happen in Washington, because all the action is at the states, and as you just pointed out, the momentum is with the pro-abortion people in the states right now.
FINNEY: People are dying.
PHILLIP: We do have to go, but I'll let you -- so I'll let you get the last one.
FINNEY: So, meanwhile, women are dying in the states, or some women are losing their ability to have children in the future. Doctors are terrified. But also, because, Scott, I've heard you make that argument before, it's not like he's saying, women, you're safe because I promise I will codify Roe v. Wade. He's saying, no, back to the state. So, that's not the necessary -- that is not the moderate position in 2024 when eight in ten Americans say.
PHILLIP: And when, we should just be clear, many states are actually passing six-week abortion bans, which are virtually complete abortion bans. So, that is happening at the state level.
Everyone stick around. Coming up next, we've got a special guest joining us in our fifth seat, as new details emerge about the black Nazi porn scandal involving a Trump-backed candidate.
Plus, is George W. Bush morally wrong for staying on the sidelines in this election? We're going to debate it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00] PHILLIP: Just in tonight, Republicans across the country are now scrubbing their social media feeds to get rid of images and messages of support for Mark Robinson. He is, of course, the Republican gubernatorial candidate in North Carolina who is at the center of a black Nazi porn scandal. Well, this comes as conservatives at the National Review are slamming MAGA for choosing toxic and fringe candidates who are costing the party elections.
Joining us in our fifth seat tonight is Bishop William Barber, a Carolina native and a professor and director of the Center for Public Theology and Public Policy at Yale University. Reverend Barber, thank you for joining us. It's good to see you here in New York.
You know, I wonder this race, even though all this stuff has come out about Mark Robinson, it's virtually unchanged. It's a ten-point spread, but that means about 35, 37 percent of North Carolinians are totally fine with Mark Robinson being the governor of their state. Does that surprise you?
REV. WILLIAM BARBER II, DIRECTOR, YALE CENTER FOR PUBLIC THEOLOGY AND PUBLIC POLICY: Not really, because he was already talked to before the latest things came out. It's almost as though focus saying as long as you don't do it on a nude porn site, it's okay. I mean, you think about this guy was saying that Jesus was an endorser, basically, of his campaign, that Jesus was -- the first tenet of Jesus was freedom, and the first tenet of Jesus was love, and how you treat the poor, and how you treat the least of these. He's anti-immigrant. Jesus was pro- immigrant and he claims to be a person of faith. He talks about some people needing to be killed.
And if you go look at that tape, it's interesting.
[22:20:00]
Before he even talked about some people needing to be killed, the pastor of that church said that Biden was being led by the devil, and he agreed with it. This was before. The point about being killed was just before the assassination attempt on President Trump. And he tried to say later that he wasn't really talking about political violence. He was talking about on the battlefield. But if you listen, as I've done over and over to the whole thing, you can't disseminate that.
So, here we have this candidate and he's been attacking everybody. And now what it looks like is he was attacking himself. That's the strange psychological part. I'm a pastor. So, I don't beat up on people when they have hard times. I don't rejoice in the downfall of people I disagree with. But it seems like he's attacking himself, because he's been attacking gay people, he's been attacking lesbians, he's been attacking trans people. Now, this report comes out and says he's on these news sites.
PHILLIP: Well, I mean, yes --
BOYKIN: Porn sites.
BARBER: Porn sites, excuse me. PHILLIP: Porn, not news sites. But the National Review's point, I mean, they're saying, the Republican Party, beginning with its voters needs to recognize that choosing candidates based on their offensiveness and fringy vibes is a formula for futility. Chalk up the North Carolina governorship as another office lost for the GOP by forfeit. Do you agree with them?
JENNINGS: Oh, yes. We've definitely nominated some candidates that were poor quality. Now, this cycle, I think if you look at it in total, it's not been as bad. Robinson's obviously at the top of that list right now. But if you go back to the last cycle in the Senate races, you know, we left some races on the table because of candidate quality.
It's really a question of what do you believe the purpose of a political party is? To win elections or to grind axes or to win cultural battles? I'm of the old school. I think there exists to win elections. So, you should nominate the people who could best win elections.
BARBER: But can I say, but, Abby, this is not new for a Republican. Ronald Reagan went to Philadelphia, Mississippi, when he opened his campaign where he knew (INAUDIBLE) and good man had died and talked about how he saw big black books buying stakes in the line and use of welfare money. George Bush used Willie Horton.
This business of positive polarization is a playbook straight out of the southern strategy, was built by Kevin Phillips, was built because when Republicans decided with Richard Nixon, they didn't want to go with Wallace, but they wanted to go with a candidate that could divide the country. They said their way of working was to positively and intentionally pit people against one another. This is an old playbook. It's been used a lot.
And what does it do? When you do this, then guess what you don't deal with, the issues. The fact that there are 4 million poor low wealth people in North Carolina, we're not talking about that. We're not talking about the over a million people who are still uninsured. We're not talking, I mean, over a million people, 1.8 million who make less than a living wage, and we haven't raised the minimum wage since 2009. We're not talking about the 300,000 people that just lost their health care because we didn't carry over from Medicare expansion during COVID.
So, this is a design play. It's a design play to put these issues out there, hope you can pit enough people against each other, particularly in the south, and then win by not having to deal with the real issues.
PHILLIP: We are talking about North Carolina as a battleground state because, according to a lot of the recent polling, it's within the margin of error, meaning Harris and Trump are right there neck-and- neck. But that is in spite of the fact that the governor's race is a ten-point spread. So, what is driving that? And do you really think, Keith, that Harris can actually make the state be in play given all the dynamics that the reverend just talked about?
BOYKIN: I think the reverend would agree the state is in play, right? It's very much in play right now. Am I wrong?
BARBER: I think it's very much in play. And I think, in fact, Obama in 2008 only won 33 counties. But you got to look at where he won. He went out west. He won two counties out west. He went to the east and won eight or nine counties, Pasquotank, Wilson, Wayne. And he talked to, particularly to poor and low wage voters. That's the key there. 1 million poor and low wage voters in the state that I'm from.
PHILLIP: Let me ask -- let me show you this then, because this was really interesting. We were looking at The New York Times polls. This is Mark Robinson, his performance among this demographic, white, non- college educated North Carolina voters. It's the only demographic where he is over 50 percent.
BOYKIN: What does that tell you, right?
PHILLIP: What does that tell you?
BOYKIN: It tells me a lot. I mean, Mark Robinson is a self-hating black man. And the reason why white people and white Republicans like him is because he's a self-hating black man. He's exactly the type of black person that Republicans like, a black person who hates black people, a black person who calls himself a Nazi, a black person who says he wants to join the KKK, a black person who says he wants to bring back slavery. That's the type of Republican that white people like to be a black person to represent them.
And that says everything about what today's Republican Party is, but it also says about, as Reverend Barber was saying, where the party has been going for the past 60 years, since the beginning of the southern strategy.
[22:25:03]
The party has devolved far away from the party of Lincoln. That doesn't exist anymore. And we know that since 1964, after Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act, that no Democratic candidate for president has ever won the white vote.
So, when you translate that to what's happening in North Carolina, it's a matter of getting those people, as Reverend Barber was saying, who are black or white or Latino or whatever, whoever they are, who are poor, who are not being represented, to talk to them and talk to their issues and not fall for the distraction, because they want us to be talking about all these side issues instead of talking about jobs and health care and education and housing and things that people are actually concerned about.
LOTTER: That's right. Donald Trump is doing that and that's why he's getting --
BOYKIN: Donald Trump is talking about that?
LOTTER: He's doubling his support in the black community. He's got 8 percent in 2020.
BOYKIN: Wait.
LOTTER: Hang on Keith. Let me -- hang on. He got 8 percent in 2020. He's 16, 17 percent now. He's seen a 10 percent increase in the Hispanic vote because people know they're better off.
PHILLIP: Let me let Keith respond and then you'll get in.
BOYKIN: First, I just had to go back to the point you said that Donald Trump is actually talking about the issues. Donald Trump is actually talking about. about Haitian immigrants eating cats and dogs. That's what your guy is talking about. Your guy is talking about Haitian immigrants eating cats and dogs, talking about Kamala Harris' laugh and her last name and how she just turned black. Donald Trump is doing everything he can to distract the campaign, to focus on these side issues instead of focusing on jobs.
What is his plan for inflation? What is his plan for health care? He says he has concepts of a plan. That's not talking about these issues, Marc.
FINNEY: A couple of things. Number one, I agree with everything that Keith said, and it's worse than that, though, when we talk about Springfield, because that's actually not a conversation about immigration. It is about distraction, exactly what Bishop Barber was saying. You now have children on our own air, little children who were actually born in this country, who are being teased, talking about being terrified. One little girl said, I'm terrified, but I pray that I believe my daddy will keep me safe. That is what Donald Trump's lies are doing. And I've heard you repeat those lies on television when it comes to North Carolina, and that's just spreading the hate and disinformation.
Bishop Barber is exactly correct, having worked on the 2022 Senate race there. What Obama was able to do in 2012, that was the strategy. It is about getting out of the areas that we typically see candidates go to and talking to people in the more rural areas. And when you fail to -- and the voters are there, if you don't talk to them --
PHILLIP: That is my question, then, for you, Bishop Barber, there is Harris doing what you think she needs to do to win the state.
BARBER: We won same-day registration and early voting in 2008. That was addition. Obama lost an election. They won during the early voting. But, listen, I don't think either candidate is doing as they should. I think Donald Trump is worse because he was president. He gave tax cuts to billionaires and millionaires, but he did not raise the minimum wage. We had not raised the minimum wage since 2009. In fact, one of the tragedies was when eight Democrats joined all the Republicans in the Senate to block raising the minimum wage for 50 million people, which would have pumped $330-some billion into the economy.
In North Carolina, you have 1.8 million poor and low wage voters. You have over a million voters that didn't vote last time who are poor and low wage. Trump only won by 74,000 votes in every battleground state. Poor and low wage voters now make up 35 to 43 percent of the electorate. There's not a state that's a battleground that if 10 to 12 percent of poor and low wage voters were to vote, that they would not change the outcome of the election.
But what the campaigns have to understand, you have to talk to them. You have to say, if you elect me, your wages are going to go up, you're not going to have these low wages and you're going to have health care and you're going to have education, and that's what where we should be. And you have to go outside in North Carolina of the I-40 corridor, Charlotte, Winston, Salem, Greensboro, Raleigh and go to the west and Jackson County and Buncombe County and go to the east, and Trump has not been doing that. And I don't think any of the candidates have done it the way they should. Middle class is fine but you got to talk about poor and low wage voters.
PHILLIP: Go ahead, Scott.
JENNINGS: Yes. I think poor and low wage working class voters also -- I mean, the issue you're conveniently leaving out of this conversation is they've been crushed by inflation for the last three and a half years. And when you -- I don't think it's as simple as what you laid out, Keith, about race. I think they're looking at their overall situation and saying, you know, four years ago, eight years ago, whatever, I felt like I was at least had a fighting chance. And today, after being crushed, I'm in a hole. So, I don't know how to get out.
And I do think they're looking for -- but I do think they're looking for someone to blame, or to at least say, why did these policies get enacted upon me? I'm the one who's feeling it the most.
BARBER: First of all, there are 140 million poor, low wage folk. The majority of them are white. 66 million of them are white. Only 26 million are black. Secondly, Trump inherited a good economy and blew it with his massive tax cuts that have only drew driven up the debt.
[22:30:07]
The inflation came out of price gouging. It came out of a pandemic. That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that we haven't raised the minimum wage since 2009.
LOTTER: The San Francisco Fed has --
PHILLIP: We really have to go there.
BARBER II: Three Nobel Peace Prize economists said if you raise it, it will not hurt jobs. It will, in fact, build the economy.
PHILLIP: We've got a lot more to discuss. Everybody, hang on for us. Coming up next, George W. Bush has spoken about the need to protect democracy. So, does he actually need to speak out about this election this year? We're going to discuss that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:35:07]
PHILLIP: So, before we get into our next debate, George W. Bush has talked a lot about democracy over the years. Here's a taste of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UBNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I ask you to be citizens. Citizens, not spectators. One of the great strengths of America is our active public square. Issues are influenced by the will of the people. My hope is that you speak out on the issues that matter to you. By taking part in American democracy, you will make our country stronger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: But the former president has refused to endorse a candidate in this cycle. His office is saying, quote, "President Bush retired from presidential politics years ago." But with voters concerned that democracy is on the ballot this year, does he have an obligation, a responsibility to speak out? Scott? You used to work for him?
JENNINGS: No. Yes, I did. And I revered this man and worked for him in two elections and in his White House. And I think he did an amazing job and is one of our greatest living Americans.
No, I don't think he has a responsibility to speak out. I mean, he has -- once he left the presidency, he has basically stayed out of politics. Not everybody in his family has, necessarily, but he, as a former president, has made the decision not to engage in the way that other former presidents have. And I think we ought to respect that.
Look, he gives speeches and he does public appearances and he makes his views on issues known from time to time. But he has personally chosen not to wade into this personally, and I think we ought to leave him alone about it because it's his right to do that.
FINNEY: It is. No, it is absolutely his right. You're correct on that. I think to me, what is more upsetting is and disappointing is the fact that, you know, we were just having a conversation about how low the Republican Party can actually go in North Carolina, lower than many of us ever thought possible.
And yet, how about speaking out about the fact that the former president who is now trying to go back to the White House actually incited an insurrection and violence at our Capitol where people died. How about the fact that this man has 34 felony counts against him?
I mean, you don't have to speak out if it's about, you know, if you don't want to, but if you don't speak out, this is what happens to your party. And I think I agree actually with Liz Cheney that maybe you got to just burn it down and try to build something new.
PHILLIP: Did you ever think that Dick Cheney would be the first to endorse a Democrat and not George W. Bush? I don't know, go ahead, Reverend.
BARBER II: You know, when I think about --all of us are talking about democracy, interested on both sides, everybody's saying democracy is at stake. I think the question is, what kind of democracy do we want? Do we want one that's been told vitriol and hate and division or do we
want one that takes seriously issue like 800 people dying a day from poverty and low wages, 200 and some thousand people a year. That is unnecessary.
If that's the case, I don't remember, over time when a president puts his hand on the Bible and swears to defend this country from enemies, domestic and abroad, do they ever retract that? So, he's still under that oath.
We still call him this president, former president. And in that sense, if in fact, I'm not talking about his personal, political and moral responsibility, you see a threat, as he has said, to this country that will keep us from dealing with the real issues that we face, the hard issues we face.
Yes, there's a moral obligation on every American and especially those who have led at the highest level. They have never -- he has never retracted that commitment to defend us from --
BOYKIN: I just don't -- I just don't think it matters. I mean, maybe it matters to Republicans, but I mean, I don't really care whether George --
PHILLIP: Would you want it as a Democrat? Like, you want --
BOYKIN: It's another thing I could say -- I could use against Scott. You know, in the next debate.
JENNINGS: Say, hey, you're a guy. And that's all you really want, isn't it?
BOYKIN: Yes, but other than that, you know, I mean, I don't want any Democrat who's going to change their opinion about Donald Trump because of what George W. Bush says. I don't know that even the Republicans would change their opinion about Donald Trump because of what George W. Bush says, because Donald Trump has taken over the Republican Party.
But what we do know is that Donald Trump's own people, his own vice president, his own secretary of state, his own attorney general, his own defense secretary, his own chief of staff, his own national security advisor have all condemned him at several different times. His own -- his own niece has called him a racist. His nephew has said he uses the N-word.
I mean, Omarosa, his top black aide said he was a racist. Everybody who knows this guy, who has had a position of influence, has had some sort of negative thing to say about him. So, it's not some sort of democratic conspiracy. The people who know him best say Donald Trump is a horrible person, except --
PHILLIP: There is something going on -- go ahead.
LOTTER: At one point though, do we start to listen to the actual people we're supposed to be listening to? I mean, A, the man was elected in 2016, got the most votes of a sitting president in 2020.
[22:40:02]
He won the nomination again, and then he is leading in the race for re-election.
PHILLIP: Okay, but Mark. Hold on, hold on. But Mark, I mean, okay. I feel like if you list all those things, you also have to note he lost the popular vote in 2016. He lost the election and the popular vote in 2020. So, even in all those cases, the people --
FINNEY: The people that listen to the majority of the people were not the vote. You can't have it both ways.
LOTTER: We do not elect our presidents by popular vote.
FINNEY: That's not what you said.
LOTTER: I'm saying is that's how we elect our presidents. And so, he is the leading candidate right now. And at least in the Republican Party, you can literally tell people, whether it's Washington, D.C., New York, former politicians. The people have said, the heck with you, we want someone who's going to fight for our issues. We were tired of being lied to. Donald Trump is doing it.
PHILLIP: All right, hold on. Another word.
BARBER II: But in a sense, this president didn't fight. He fought against the American people. He fought against those who are hurting.
LOTTER: He raised the wages, Sir.
BARBER II: He didn't raise wages.
LOTTER: We had lower poverty, we had low wages, low inflation.
BARBER II: No, no. He did not raise the minimum wage as a policy.
FINNEY: Inflation was seven percent when he left office.
FINNEY: Inflation was seven percent when he left office.
PHILLIP: Marc and Karen, wait a second.
BARBER II: The things that he did, he inherited an economic situation that was already up from Obama. This man incited an insurrection. He has used the office for meanness. He has used the office for hurt. He has not used it as a president and we, the people -- and if you want to listen to him, I agree, we should listen to him.
Every lie he's told, we all listen to him. Every bad economic thing, we all listen to him. Everything he didn't do during the pandemic, we all listen to him. He was worse than Woodrow Wilson on the pandemic who was bad himself and got 600,000 people to die. We should listen to him, but we should ask the people to speak. PHILLIP: Is there a fear factor for Republicans? I mean, let's play
for GOP Governor Pat McCrory, who won't say what he's going to do in this next election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Governor, briefly, before I let you go, you had been involved in No Labels. Who are you going to vote for this cycle? Donald Trump or Kamala Harris?
GOV. PAT MCCRORY (R) FORMER NORTH CAROLINA GOVERNOR: I think our founders were brilliant in having the secret ballot. In this cancel culture of today, I would recommend people maybe keep their vote quiet at this point in time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BARBER II: He was a little Donald Trump in North Carolina.
PHILLIP: But he talked about Cancel Culture? Is the Cancel Culture going to come from the Republican Party?
UNKNOWN: Yes.
FINNEY: Is it really canceling?
JENNINGS: I think he's already canceled.
PHILLIP: I think -- is going to be cancel culture.
FINNEY: -- Omarosa.
BOYKIN: I'm just saying.
JENNINGS: I think one thing Marc said is true, which is there are millions upon millions upon millions of Americans who have lost faith in government elites, institutional elites, and so on, and they see Donald Trump as someone coming from outside that system to avenge what they believe are policies that were not put in place with their best interests in mind. You can disagree with that. I know you do.
BARBER II: No, no. I'm an independent. Don't speak for me. I actually agree with that, but he didn't address that. I didn't say who I was going for. I said, I'm an independent. And I'm saying that Donald Trump played on that anger and disappointed. He did not use this office for the things he could have.
JENNINGS: What do you mean he played? He played on it or he responded to it?
BARBER II: He says, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this. Remember when he said, only I, I alone can fix it.
JENNINGS: I know, I understand.
BARBER II: And I'm talking about having talked to people in your state of East Kentucky, who I met, have gone out and met with -- people in Appalachia, up in West Virginia who are deeply disappointed. I'm talking about white women who are struggling today and they're not blaming it on Biden or blaming it on Democrats.
The truth of the matter, when you look at history and you look at when wages have gone up, they've gone up and when policies have changed to permanently make them go up, it has happened on Democrats. But I'm not somebody who's just saying, Democrat, Democrat. I'm saying, let's get down to these real issues and have a real debate.
JENNINGS: So, you're considering Trump.
BARBER: In the CNN debate -- the CNN debate is not a game. In the CNN debate that's coming up, let poverty and low wages be the center economic issue and ask each candidate whether you stand on those issues and what are your power.
PHILLIP: I hope there will be a CNN debate. We debate on this particular topic. We got to leave it there. Reverend William Barber, thank you very much for joining us here at the table. Everyone else, hold on for us. Up next, billionaire Mark Cuban says Donald Trump is more socialist than Bernie Sanders. We'll explain what he means by that and debate it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:49:06]
PHILLIP: The pigs must be flying because Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are being compared to each other. Here is what billionaire Mark Cuban had to say on a Harris campaign call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK CUBAN, BILLIONAIRE ENTREPRENEUR: So, now you've got Donald Trump getting involved in price caps and price controls to a greater extent than self-described socialist Bernie Sanders. And I think that just says so much about how far -- how far Donald has gone to, you know, his socialist and communistic tendencies, right? These things he kicks off the top of his head, he just makes up in real time and then everybody around him tries to justify it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, he's talking about Trump's proposal, newly debuted, I guess, to cap credit card interest rates at a certain level. That's even lower than Bernie Sanders did.
[22:50:01]
But that's not all. I mean, he wants -- yes, we know about the tariffs. He talks about the government paying for IVF. He talks about all kinds of things and it seems like he just wants to give people money, pay for it, be damned.
LOTTER: Well, I definitely think when it comes to the tariffs, especially as he was talking today about John Deere, that's fighting for American jobs. The company is shipping manufacturing overseas to Mexico.
He's warning them, he says, if you do it, I'm going to tariff it, put 200 percent on it. You're going to lose business, so you might want to reconsider it. When it comes to IVF, obviously, he's very supportive of it. How we get to paying for it, that's going to be a different question.
PHILLIP: But I mean, are those not conservative principles? I mean, I think that's the question, is like, are those actually conservative principles?
FINNEY: But also, how are you going to pay for it actually matters? Like, where this been? You know, I hear a lot of Republicans about where are the specifics? Great, where are the specifics? Where are the details? Because I'll tell you what economists are saying is everything he is laying out.
It's like, you get a car and you get a thing. Oh, I met with the vape lobbyists. I'm going to be supportive of vaping. Oh, I met with oil and gas. Oh, I'm going to give you a cabinet seat. I mean, it's like everybody's going to get something. He's not saying how he's going to pay for it or how it would actually work when he does mass deportations, tearing kids from their families, I guess, again.
But all of the economists are saying it will increase inflation, we got inflation under three percent, finally, back down. It'll increase inflation. It will -- it's bad for job creation. And the worst of it all is who's going to pay? The working poor and the middle class up to $4000.
LOTTER: They're not buying tractors from John Deere.
PHILLIP: Scott, I mean, I do want to know what you think about this because you talk a lot about Trump on the policies being more aligned with your --your views, but I mean, this is a pillar of his economic agenda. I mean, are those actually aligned with your views?
JENNINGS: Yes, he's more populist economic theory than the party in which I was raised. And this is a huge split in the Republican Party. I mean, you know, just today, my old boss Mitch McConnell made a rare comment about Trump and said he doesn't necessarily believe tariffs are a good idea. You're going to see debates like this within the party. I will say the energy is behind Trump on these matters right now.
And I do think there's a reason that in our own CNN poll today, 51 percent of Americans said they judged Trump's term to be a success and only 37 percent have judged the Biden-Harris administration to be a success.
There is something going on where people are remembering what he did, how he did it, and they're comparing it to what's happening right now. So, you can cherry pick these individual statements or policies. But if you look at the comparative and you look at our own polling, you realize he's hit upon an economic vein that is working for him in this election. He beats Harris on it, and he is viewed as a better president than Biden and Harris.
PHILLIP: Yes, 50 percent say that Trump is better to handle the economy. Just 39 percent say that of Harris. There's a lot of work for her to do here, a lot of work.
BOYKIN: Yes, I don't think that people are remembering the past. I think they are forgetting the past. They're forgetting about the fact that we lost three million jobs nearly when Trump was president. They're forgetting about the fact that he mismanaged the COVID crisis. They're forgetting about the fact that Donald Trump actually --is this true?
Donald Trump has actually inherited -- everything I said is true -- inherited an economy that was doing well and left an economy that wasn't doing well. They're forgetting about the fact that actually -- that we've actually grown by having 16 million new jobs now and Donald Trump has the worst jobs record of any president in recent history.
But also, there's another point that needs to be said here is that Donald Trump is a transactional politician. He doesn't have any fundamental beliefs. So, he just says whatever comes to his mind. And the real issue here with Donald Trump is that he's sold himself as this successful businessman who he never was.
The guy had six bankruptcies before he even came into office, we know that, and it's not a debatable point. Not only that, but you know, he's got his Donald Trump media company, which is, now it's lost 70 percent of its value this year.
PHILLIP: All right.
JENNINGS: The job thing deserves a fact-check because the pandemic shut down the American economy. They were bounced back and everybody knows it.
BOYKIN: And the Biden administration managed the recovery better than any other country in the Western world.
PHILLIP: We are going to move on. The panel's going to give us their nightcaps next, including the wild intersection between "Friends" the TV show, and this election.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:58:20]
PHILLIP: We are back and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap. You each have 30 seconds to say your piece. Keith.
BOYKIN: The state of Missouri tonight executed Marcellus Williams, a 55-year-old black man, who the prosecutor in the case said that he wanted to have that case vacated and other people have intervened to try to get that case overthrown --overturned. But the Supreme Court tonight said, no, we're not going to stand in to do anything about it. And it was a six to three decision showing that the three liberal
democratic justices opposed killing him and the six Republican appointed justices wanted to kill him, showing that elections do have consequences to all those people who say that they don't.
PHILLIP: All right, Karen.
FINNEY: Voting matters. Vote no matter what wherein we -- and right before our very eyes, we are seeing Donald Trump lay out the rationale for his 2024 version of what we saw in 2020, trying to change the rules in Nebraska, trying to change the rules in Georgia. And we should, we've got to warn about it and sound the alarm bells that it's happening right before our eyes. We cannot let voter suppression take root and people got to get out and vote.
PHILLIP: All right, Scott.
JENNINGS: Last night, I had some advice for the white dudes for Harris. Tonight, the white women for Harris. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MICHIGAN): The House party just slayed. I'm calling voters today. Rizzing them up. Trump wants to ship union chaps overseas. Not chill. This is gas. Trump wants to cut taxes for billionaires. I'm leaving the chat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: So, maybe we could also talk about this one.
PHILLIP: How to reach the youths.
JENNINGS: I'm just saying, maybe when you, before you post your video, think twice, put your phone in airplane mode, something.
[23:00:00]
PHILLIP: It's not -- it's not for you, Scott. Marc.
LOTTER: Thirty years ago last night, "Friends" debuted on network television and I did the math. Monica and Chandler's twins, who were born in the very last episode, would be 20. And so, they would vote in their first presidential election this year.
FINNEY: Wow.
PHILLIP: Where are those babies today?
LOTTER: They live in New York, probably.
PHILLIP: If someone knows where those babies are today, let us know. Everyone, thank you very much for watching. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
