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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip

Liz Cheney Campaigns With Harris in Battleground Wisconsin; Trump Again Lies About Losing Election 32 Days Before Next One; Trump Baselessly Says Biden Stole FEMA Money for Migrants. "NewsNight" Discusses Donald Trump And Melania Trump Disagreeing On Abortion Issue. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired October 03, 2024 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, teaming up --

FMR. REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): I have never voted for a Democrat.

PHILLIP: -- to topple Trump.

CHENEY: I am proudly casting my vote for Vice President Kamala Harris.

PHILLIP: Republican Liz Cheney takes to the campaign trail to tell voters why Kamala Harris is the only choice in November.

Plus, what he said --

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: They're dying and they're getting no help from our federal government.

PHILLIP: -- he actually did. Donald Trump's record of withholding help to disaster stricken communities desperate for it.

Also, no reading between the lines.

MELANIA TRUMP, FORMER U.S. FIRST LADY: There is no room for compromise.

PHILLIP: Melania Trump makes clear --

M. TRUMP: What does my body, my choice really mean?

PHILLIP: What she believes about abortion is wildly different than her MAGA husband's party.

Live at the Table, Madison Gesiotto, Van Jones, Ramesh Ponnuru, and Nayyera Haq.

With 32 days to go, Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do. (END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening, I'm Abby Phillip in New York. Let's get right to what America is talking about, maybe the strangest political pairing ever? Well, tonight, Liz Cheney standing side by side with Kamala Harris in Wisconsin and officially endorsing Harris for president. The Republican encouraged Republicans and independents to join her, and she listed many reasons why she's voting against Donald Trump.

But chief among them was the issue of the January 6th attack and Trump's refusal to do anything resembling taking responsibility for it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: I don't care if you are a Democrat or a Republican or an independent, that is depravity and we must never become numb to it.

Any person who would do these things can never be trusted with power again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: As you can imagine, Trump had a very strong reaction to the Cheney-Harris event.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D. TRUMP: Well, Liz Cheney lost for Congress. She was terrible.

Liz Cheney is a stupid war hawk. All she wants to do is shoot missiles at people.

I really think it hurts. I think, frankly, if Kamala -- I think they hurt each other. I think they're so bad, both of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So, here we are in the upside down world. That was a war hawk that he said. Not warthog, even though, theoretically, you can see Donald Trump saying either of those things. But, I mean, the Cheney endorsement is a sort of a shock to the political system, but will it matter is what I'm wondering.

NAYYERA HAQ, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE SENIOR DIRECTOR: I have a hard time seeing how it changes any of these so-called undecided voters, but I also have a hard time seeing that anybody doesn't already have an opinion about Donald Trump and Kamala Harris, that there are voters who are -- identifies unaffiliated but people know the candidates, they know generally the issues.

What this does is potentially help with some of the enthusiasm, folks who may have been more likely to stay home, who may consider, and maybe some of those are white women, right, who have voted for Trump in high percentages in both elections. Maybe that's part of what this is, is that building that enthusiasm that, you know, either you stay home or maybe you're like, okay, I can turn out for this combination now.

PHILLIP: I want to play a little bit more of Cheney because it's not just the anti Trump part of it. She actually made an affirmative case for Kamala Harris. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: A President Harris, that President Harris will be able to unite this nation. I know that she will be a president who will defend the rule of law and I know that she will be a president who can inspire all of our children, and if I might say so, especially our little girls.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: I, honest to God, don't think I ever thought I would hear Liz Cheney say something like that. Even the idea of her giving voice to this aspiration of many Americans to have a woman president just seems so foreign, but here we are.

[22:05:04]

RAMESH PONNURU, EDITOR, NATIONAL REVIEW: You know, I was reminded when she made that remark also that pretty much, with the exception of Trump, most of the time, every president has said, I'm going to unite the country and none of them has succeeded in doing it. And I would be very, very skeptical that Harris would.

But getting back to this question of the political import, I think that Harris -- excuse me, that Cheney does represent a lot of voters. There are a lot of sort of ancestrally Republican voters, people who voted Republican in the past, but voted for Clinton and voted for Biden because for various reasons they considered Trump unacceptable. Cheney speaks for those voters.

But I wonder if Harris hasn't already maxed out with that kind of voter who is moved by the question of democracy and Trump's threat to it.

PHILLIP: What do you think?

MADISON GESIOTTO, FORMER RNC NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: I mean, I think that anti-Trump voters are already with Cheney, they're already with Kamala or they're certainly against Trump. The people that were undecided, you have to give them something to jump about. I mean, you have to give them that excitement, you have to inspire them, and I don't think anything about her speech necessarily did that.

So, I think it's very difficult to see a world in which this really changes anything, especially when you look, I mean, on Tuesday at the vice presidential debate, over 43 million people watched this, and that's unlikely to change things. And the reality is, obviously, J.D. Vance had a very good performance on Tuesday. I think he impressed many people that weren't expecting for him to do as well as he did. And that's not likely to shift the needle. So, I don't think Liz Cheney's speech today is going to really do much of anything.

PHILLIP: There are some gettable voters, about almost 10 percent of the electorate in Wisconsin.

VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Some things matter for reasons that aren't directly tied to voter behavior. You know, we focus on that a lot because we're 30 days out from an election. But I think this matters from the point of view of history. Kamala Harris is building a pro-democracy coalition. She's building a united front to stop authoritarianism in the United States.

Now, to me, I don't care if one more person votes for or against her based on the stand. What I'm proud of is that the antibodies seem to be kicking in, that when you have, you know, the Cheneys and when you have ALC and when you have, Taylor Swift, when you have so much of American society coming together, saying we literally agree on nothing except that this person should not be the president of the United States because we do not trust that this person will honor our Constitution.

I think that's significant. I don't know if it changes --

PHILLIP: (INAUDIBLE) that's different from 2020 and how? I mean, is it -- because it did feel -- it has felt in the past like that a lot of people in culture and in sports and in politics have turned against Trump, but that hasn't stopped Trump from performing extremely well.

JONES: Look, I don't know how this is going to work out. I mean, there, there's a clash that's coming and there are people who are on the Trump side who see it very differently. But what I'm saying is this is a much broader coalition around Kamala Harris. It seems to me -- again, Liz Cheney was not standing next to Kamala Harris or Joe Biden or anybody four years ago.

PHILLIP: That's true.

HAQ: And what it does Bring back into the narrative is that reminder of what happened on January 6th, right? Liz Cheney was and Adam Kinzinger, they -- it was a bipartisan panel that went through and looked at everything and displayed that video and information for the American public, that has been forgotten to some degree.

So, this represents this idea of what a, quote/unquote, old school bipartisanship looks like, the idea of return to a set of democratic principles, but it doesn't change the enthusiasm people who like Trump have for Trump. If you look at polling and talk about what actually authoritarianism actions are, 40 percent of Americans are perfectly fine with it.

So, this is why it's discussed as a battle for American democracy and pluralism, because there is a very different worldview that Trump presents about how America should operate.

GESIOTTO: And the undecided voters, I mean, you continue to see the polling, especially in these very important critical swing states. They continue to say the economy is their most important issue followed obviously very closely in many places by immigration. And that's not what was talked about today. Obviously, Liz Cheney and Kamala Harris have very different views on those issues. And so I think talking about policy there wouldn't have made sense, but that's what I think could sway these voters.

PHILLIP: You know, one of the things that keeps this going as a topic is that Donald Trump keeps denying that the election was -- he lost,

PONNURU: (INAUDIBLE) today said that Trump did not lose in 2020. So, they want to simultaneously say, oh, you Democrats are obsessed with 2020 and themselves remain obsessed with 2020.

PHILLIP: I mean, let me just actually play what Trump said today because this wasn't even a question to him. He just said it.

JONES: He just coughed it up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D. TRUMP: You know, last time, last election, we did great in 2016. A lot of people didn't know we did much better in 2020. We won. We won. We did win. It was a rigged election. It was a rigged election. You have to tell Kamala Harris, that's why I'm doing it again, if I thought I lost, I wouldn't be doing this again.

[22:10:05]

You know where I'd be right now on the beaches of Monte Carlo, maybe, or someplace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: It's almost like he's trying to remind himself why he's doing it. So, he's creating or, you know, reinvigorating this narrative. And, by the way, a couple weeks ago he was saying he lost. So, which one is it?

JONES: I don't know, but I will say this. J.D. Vance, you know, just from a pure performance basis, did very well at the debate. He lied the whole time, but he did very well while he was lying. The problem is they lost the debate about the debate because at the very end, J.D. Vance falls down these stairs and can't just say the obvious that Donald Trump lost.

So, this continues to be an albatross around the neck of this campaign. And for Donald -- I mean, look, it's one thing for Donald Trump to get up there on his little pogo stick and say it's nonsense, but J.D. Vance literally flushed his whole debate performance down the toilet over the same issue.

HAQ: Well, and it comes across to folks who are watching this as a complete denial of reality. For the last four years, Biden has been in the White House. He's been president, right? And we saw what happened on January 6th. So, if you want to say that the economy or immigration are the top issues for voters, but you're talking, you're denying this other basic reality, it is hard to have credibility and confidence in that ticket.

PONNURU: You know, and the other thing that's I think kind of interesting is that Vance has tried to sort of tap dance around this in the past. He said, oh, there are problems with the 2020 election. It was unfair for social media companies to do this and that. That's not the same thing, of course, as saying that Trump actually won the election. He sort of avoided going that far until really today.

HAQ: Because his audience have won. At the end of the day, he's got to keep Trump happy.

PHILLIP: It is a litmus test in Trump's circle that you must acknowledge his warped view of this, which is that he falsely claims that he won. I mean, and J.D. Vance knows that. He knows that he would be thrown off the boat immediately if he were to even give a hint of acknowledging that.

Everyone stick around for us. Coming up next, Donald Trump's former White House advisers, they are making a damning allegation that he wanted to refuse disaster relief money to blue states. A special guest is going to join us in our fifth seat on that.

Plus, Melania Trump is undercutting her own husband on two major campaign issues just one month before the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

M. TRUMP: What does my body, my choice really mean?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:15:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D. TRUMP: People are dying in North Carolina. They're dying all over those five, six states. They're dying, and they're getting no help from our federal government because they have no money, because their money's been spent on people that should not be in our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Donald Trump there is wrong. Disaster relief money is separate from the money that goes to migrant's needs. And both the White House and FEMA have now responded to that wildly spreading false claim now that aid is being provided to help victims of the hurricane and that it's not being siphoned away for other purposes.

But some of Trump's own former White House aides are now saying that when he was in office, he initially refused to help blue states with disaster relief.

Joining us now in our fifth seat is CNN's Chief Climate Correspondent Bill Weir. Bill, first of all, let's start with the fact here that we are talking about these incredibly destructive storms and they are affecting large swaths of the country, red states, blue states. Rather than talking about that, Donald Trump is trying to make this a political issue. But what is the reality for Americans at this moment?

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this story is really interesting. This is new information. We had covered his ambivalence around Hurricane Maria's response in Puerto Rico. There were eight damning inspector general reports about that particular one. But this is an official, former official named Mark Harvey. He was in the resilience part of the National Security Council and had to literally, he says, show Donald Trump precinct by precinct vote tallies from Orange County to prove there were more Trump supporters there than in Iowa, and that they deserved a wildfire.

PHILLIP: Yes. Let me just read the quote he said. We went as far as looking up how many votes he got in those impacted areas to show him these are people who voted for you.

WEIR: And then on the other side of that, Ron DeSantis writes in his autobiography that after Hurricane Michael hit the panhandle, he said to Donald Trump, these are your people. So, instead of giving 75 percent federal coverage for the disaster, let's give him a hundred percent, and he did. And that was a difference of maybe $300 million, depending on sort of favoritism. A president has discretion on the percentage based on usually the size of the disaster.

In the end, Donald Trump did approve dozens of disasters in California, more than any other state, but this shows his transactional impulse, right? Everything is about how do I play this to my advantage? And what it does is it trickles down this conspiracy to now you have the Red Cross and FEMA fighting these theories that you're only going to get $750 and the rest of the money went to Ukraine.

PHILLIP: I mean, this is in the middle of a disaster, like the disaster is happening right now and people are trying to pick their lives up. It just seems very cynical.

PONNURU: You know, and one thing that I think gives it some credence is that he said in public back in April 2020 on Twitter, he said, which is, I guess what we called it back that, he said why should we give any COVID relief money to blue states, right?

[22:20:07]

He said he put that out there in a kind of just saying kind of way, but it's of a piece with the way he's approached all of public life.

HAQ: And to your point earlier, it's not a discussion for Donald Trump about uniting America. It's consistently us versus them and his team, and then he will protect and take care of his people. And that's part of the promise, is if you join his team, you will get taken care of.

It's also a reminder of why this system of governance exists, where there are civil servants who are non-political, who literally look at how do you help people, how do you make sure that the money gets where it's needed to go, and that system needs to be maintained and protected.

PHILLIP: I mean, Madison, is this a bridge too far? I mean, is Trump just going -- he always goes a little too far, but is this too far?

GESIOTTO: Well, I feel like disaster relief should never be political. I don't care whether it's a Democrat or Republican. We have to look at each individual situation and make sure that we provide the funds necessary to give the relief needed to these people. I mean, we see people stranded out there. We see people struggling. We see moms on Facebook posting, like please help, we're running out of baby formula, my neighbor has no oxygen. I mean, this is a true disaster and what's going on now, obviously, what goes on with the wildfires.

But to say that this is the only time ever in history that any politician, Republican or Democrat, has politicized something like this, difference being sometimes Trump says things in front of everybody that other politicians do behind closed doors. And I think that's the frustration that so many people across the country have with government, with politicians, with Congress. I mean, in Ohio, for example, many people not very far from where I'm from, in East Palestine, Ohio, were very, very frustrated that it took President Biden over a year to come, and they begged him to come.

PHILLIP: I do think that the difference here is that Trump is just straight up lying.

GESIOTTO: Well, there was like --

PHILLIP: Here are the governors -- these are the governors of the affected states. Here's what they're saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been superb. We're getting assistance and we're asking for everything we need.

GOV. GLENN YOUNGKIN (R-VA): I'm incredibly appreciative of the rapid response and the cooperation from the federal team at FEMA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The response was quick from the federal government.

GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R-GA): We got what we need. He offered that if there's other things we need, just to call him directly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: These are Republican governors who have every reason in the world to want to help Kamala Harris to lose. They're not big Biden fans and they're just telling the truth. They're just saying that America's government is responding to an American crisis the way that it always has. But Donald Trump is lying.

And the problem with it is not just now. Now, it's terrible. People are suffering. Maybe people are more afraid than they need to be. They might be more confused than they need to be. The problem is this gets in -- this poison gets to the system. So, now you are, you're creating -- it's like termites in the foundation --

WEIR: Especially when you consider there were 23 separate billion dollar disasters last year, so far, 20 this year. And if you go to look for the list, the server is down because that is held in Asheville, North Carolina. It's been taken out by this hurricane.

So, even Deanne Criswell and Brock Long, a former FEMA administrator, would agree we're not in a position where FEMA's going to make you whole again. The cavalry is not coming, because there's so many disasters going on at the same time. But it's about communities trusting each other and building trust before the disaster hits.

GESIOTTO: But they're not saying that FEMA's going to run out of money before the end of the hurricane season this year.

PHILLIP: Which, does happen.

WEIR: It does happen.

PHILLIP: It does happen.

WEIR: The Congress appropriates that.

PHILLIP: Right. And that's why there was some talk of Congress coming back to do exactly that. I mean, the thing though about this storm, now the second deadliest storm in some decades, second only to Katrina, is that, you know, when we're trying to understand who's responsible for the deaths, I mean, help us out here, Bill. I mean, it seems to me part of what happened here was that places that don't get this kind of weather were getting this kind of weather and just were not ready for it.

WEIR: There was a big flood in Asheville in 1916, I think. This one was so much worse. It's just we don't live in our grandparents' planet anymore. The water cycles are just way more violent. The flashfloods are flashier because, you know, there's heat trapping pollution, just a warmer planet moves more water in much more unpredictable ways.

So, we lack the imagination to think about the kind of wildfire we saw in Maui or these kinds of inland hurricanes. There's a new term called it's the brown ocean effect because the dirt was so moist from the rain before Helene hit, that it created almost like ocean conditions to keep the hurricane alive on land.

And so this is something leaders need to be educating the public about, to brace for and prepare for not say it's not happening in the first place then a transactional response.

PHILLIP: This got missed on Sunday but here's what Trump said about climate change. And mind you, the storm had come, had devastated parts of the country, and he said this.

[22:25:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D. TRUMP: Do you ever notice, this was such a big deal, the environmental stuff. I haven't heard the environmental stuff mentioned in six months. I was saying the other night, what the hell happened to the environment?

No, but think about this. I haven't heard -- Mike, I haven't heard -- they don't ever talk about the environment anymore. You know why? Mike is saying, don't talk about it now. No, it's one of the great scams of all time. You know why they don't talk about it. Because people aren't buying it anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAQ: J.D. Vance echoed this at the debate as well, and he said, if you believe that climate change is caused by carbon in the air, the caveat there, I think, it's deeply significant, because climate science is proven more real and sincere than tobacco causing cancer, right? That's by the consensus of scientists, and now by the lived experiences of people. The people who actually understand this most deeply in their pocketbooks, farmers, right? And the fact that most people in urban centers are disconnected from our food supplies, these are the threats of the future, right, this focus on individual people or where they're from as opposed to something that everybody on this planet has to deal with.

PHILLIP: Bill, as somebody who spends your days and your nights talking about the environment, when you hear Trump say that, I mean, what do you think?

WEIR: It's just so disrespectful to folks who do think about it. Farmers, supply chain experts, insurance executives who are going broke because you can't cover this much disaster at once. It's just silly. So much of the world has just moved on from the debate over whether it's even happening. It just takes a special level of us to say it's not happening now in the face of all of this.

PONNURU: Maybe it's a reflection of the press that Trump consumes, that he's not hearing about the environment.

WEIR: Absolutely. And that's the case with the voters as well.

PONNURU: But the other thing is that we do hear less about it during campaign season because it ranks low among voter concerns. Voters are much more likely to tell you that they put inflation and the cost of living and the jobs rate higher than climate change. That's reflected in the way campaigning happens.

HAQ: That's a demographic difference. If you look at the segment that will be the majority of the population, voting population, 45 and under, they rank climate much higher. It's in their top three. They have grown up with this understanding --

PONNUNRU: Swing voters don't.

PHILLIP: Well, I mean, I --

WEIR: And I'm waiting for the day, excuse me, Abby, when the pollster says, do you know that your health, wealth, and happiness depends on a certain temperature range on planet Earth?

PHILLIP: And I think that's such a great point, because I think we ask, when we ask voters, like climate, it seems almost esoteric in a way.

WEIR: Yes, it's starving polar bears.

PHILLIP: And I do think that it ranks low for a lot of people. But then, at the same time, that's different from Trump and Vance basically suggesting that it does not matter at all and that there does not need to be a grown up like government response to it.

JONES: When people are not able to get insurance for their houses, that's an economic impact of climate, which is beginning to happen. Also you have all the other -- you talk about, you know, work, wealth, and health, all impacted, all these things that go along with climate, like asthma, air pollution, other stuff. So, I do think the political class, we don't do a great job of breaking the two syllables climate apart and showing how it hits everybody in their pocketbooks but people are aware.

And I think the other thing that was, I think, awful that J.D. Vance did was when he was talking about America and what's wrong with it, he would always say it was because energy prices are too high, and then we have too many immigrants. As if we are producing more energy, both clean and dirty, than any country in the world. And so he just -- J.D. Vance lied about the lies that he lied about, and the climate's just one of them.

HAQ: And there were solutions to this, right? The Paris Climate Accord is something the entire global community got behind, largely led by the United States, to have it shaped in a way that was helpful for the United States and Trump just pulled out of that. So, this idea of an entire generation having been raised past voting age now participating, they see the reality and day-to-day impacts of this in a way that I think Trump and a lot of boomers still see it as an esoteric matter of belief (ph).

GESIOTTO: I do think it's very difficult for so many people across the country, though, to watch the people who continue to lobby and talk about how much this matters, how important this is. They fly around on their private jets. They continue to, in so many ways, support pushing manufacturing. I know you don't, but a lot of people do. I'd like to fly around in a private jet but they continue to push a lot of manufacturing over to China, where they don't have environmental controls, the worst polluters in the world. And so it's very difficult, I think, for them to put a grasp on the importance of it when the people explaining it to them just do it like this.

PHILLIP: Well, okay, yes, that's an important issue. But if you're not even having the conversation, you can't hold China accountable for its greenhouse gas emissions. [22:30:00]

Bill Weir, thank you, nice for us to have you at the table tonight. Everyone else hang tight for us.

Coming up next, her husband bragged about overturning Roe versus Wade. And now 32 days before the election, Melania Trump says that he is wrong in a pretty surprising video.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIP: A disagreement between husband and wife playing out in public tonight. We are talking about Donald Trump and Melania Trump and the fight is over abortion. It is a potentially potent issue in this election cycle and Melania now says that women deserve to choose to do whatever they want to do with their bodies.

[22:35:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELANIA TRUMP, FORMER U.S. FIRST LADY: Individual freedom is a fundamental principle that I safeguard. Without a doubt. There is no room for compromise when it comes to this essential right that all women possess from birth -- individual freedom. What does my body, my choice really mean?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Her husband's party strongly disagrees with that. And the former president says that he decided to stay out of it as much as he could. And she could write whatever she wanted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (R): We spoke about it and I said, you have to write what you believe. I'm not going to tell you what to do. You have to write what you believe. She's very beloved. People love our former First Lady, I can tell you that. But I said, you have to stick with your heart. I've said that to everybody. You have to go with your heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: What is going on here? Okay, so here's a tweet from the Students for Life president, Kristan Hawkins. An October surprise is supposed to hurt your opponent, not your friends. Team Trump, write that down. Yikes.

MADISON GESIOTTO, FORMER RNC NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: Yes, this has been, I think, a very tough week on the issue for President Trump. I think he's in a very, very weird position in a difficult spot right now. Obviously, I think his lasting legacy in so many ways in the Republican Party lies in those Supreme Court picks, not just on this issue but on many issues. He got those picks that'll be able to impact the country for generations potentially to come.

And so, I think the pro-life movement really rallied around him because of the overturning of Roe v. Wade and what he was able to do in terms of saving pre-born lives. However, not just this week, but the past, I would say two months, there's been a lot of disagreement within the pro-life movement.

And I'm seeing this play out right now post the V.P. debate on Tuesday, in which they don't feel like he's been that ally that he once was. They don't feel like they agree with what J.D. Vance said. On Tuesday, meanwhile, I'm talking to other Republicans, specifically a lot of women that are in counties, that are swing counties in Ohio and other states across the country, that are saying they really loved what J.D. Vance had to say.

They loved someone softening the tone on the issue and saying, listen, we haven't been great on the issue. And so, it's really interesting to see the two sides of the Republican party really at play here on this issue. However, I think it's definitely interesting when it's his wife.

PHILLIP: People wonder whether you can even, I mean, what Melania Trump is an enigma in many ways, and that's part of the reason why they're releasing these videos, these dramatic videos, is to kind of feed into that.

But the idea that, first of all, Trump is even softening on abortion. I think a lot of people would question that. And I think a lot of people also question Melania Trump suddenly coming out of the woodworks and revealing this.

RAMESH PONNURU, COLUMNIST, "WASHINGTON POST": Right, it's sort of part of their having it every which way.

PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, it kind of seems like it.

PONNURU: I can't help but think of her own famous words, Melania's, or at least her jackets, which is, "I really don't care, do you?" Because she didn't have any influence. These pro-choice views of hers didn't matter in Trump's first term. Why would we expect that they would matter in another Trump term? HAQ: I think it's a very cynical play, the timing for getting back

some suburban white women voters who were very skeptical of what J.D. Vance and Donald Trump have done when it comes to women's health care. And J.D. Vance -- what he tried to couch in terms of the debate about, you know, we should be providing for health care and the support of children after they're born goes against his entire voting record.

But the irony to me here is that this is a moment where you see many husbands, wives, men and women coming together. So many men speaking about the experiences of their family and their desire to have a family being impacted negatively by the overturning of Roe, by the draconian laws in different states, yet we're seeing these two people on completely different page.

GESIOTTO: I don't think this is coming from the campaign, though. A lot of people saying, hey, I think they put her out there. Melania Trump typically does what Melania Trump wants to do. And as Trump said, I told her, speak from the heart, say what you want to say. I think if it were up to the campaign, she would have been on the other side of this.

PHILLIP: So, here's the other thing --

GESIOTTO: I don't think that's from that.

PHILLIP: --she's been talking about. She writes in her book that she cautioned Trump about the child separation thing, tried to encourage him to end it. She says, allegedly, "This has to stop," the former First Lady told her husband, "emphasizing the trauma it caused to these families, describing approaching her husband, whose hardline stance on immigration was well known".

And Trump writes, "I am sympathetic to all who wish to find a better life in this country. As an immigrant myself, I intimately understand the necessary, if arduous process of legally becoming an American."

Now, again, to Ramesh's point, where was that energy when this was actually happening publicly? And there's also audio of her defending the conditions that these children were being kept in at the time that was released by a former friend of hers?

[22:40:00]

VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But I don't know what's going on here. It's really weird, but I will say this. We have never seen this happen before in American politics where a former First Lady or the spouse of a presidential candidate --

PHILLIP: Right, he's running for president right now.

JONES: --thirty days before election comes out with a book that says, screw you and everything that you're running on in your party. That's what's happening. Now, we can pretend that there's some kind of 19- dimensional chess happening. And what this really is the Trump campaign. I just don't think they get along. I think they do not get along. I don't think they agree on much. And I think she's just having a, "I'm going to do it my way moment."

And by the way, when you --when you have the light coming down and you're coming out of the shadows, look, I think she's trying to send a signal to America that she is not down with none of this.

HAQ: Oh, no, no. She was a birther right there with him, right? Like --

PHILLIP: There's a difference between a motive that is related to Trump's political future and there are other motives including financial motives. She is selling a book and CNN reported today that when we requested an interview with her, her publicist or publisher came back and said, that'll be $250,000, please.

JONES: Hey, well, hey, I'm asking for 250. GESIOTTO: They did walk it back. The publisher said that she, or I

guess they said, she didn't actually know about the request.

PONNURU: Right, listen. You can have me for half of that.

JONES: Exactly. I want 250 to be sitting here.

HAQ: I mean, respect the hustle, I guess, right? Like, I just --

PHILLIP: I mean, selling books is selling books. And sometimes you write provocative things to sell a book.

HAQ: She also talked about being a champion for abortion rights. I'm like, so in what way are you helping be the vanguard for this? Are you actually getting your husband to change? He's ultimately the one with the power in this situation.

JONES: Trump is not going to do nothing different than he wants to do. Nobody can influence Trump to do anything except maybe Trump. So -- but I think that we are overthinking this. I've been watching all day long people imagining like, I just think Melania Trump is trying to sell a book. She's trying to make her own money. She's trying to come out from the shadows. And I don't think -- I think she is literally giving the middle finger to the campaign and to the party.

GESIOTTO: I think very reflective of couples across the country. There's many people that are Republican, Democrat spouses that don't agree on this issue specifically, as well as many others. And I think that's another example of the reality of that relationship.

HAQ: The irony actually is that the majority of the American public, across party partisan lines for, since we've had Roe v. Wade have supported some level, a degree of abortion rights, abortion, more than 80 percent. So, the idea -- it is actually a very bipartisan consensus issue. The extremes of what the pro-life movement has done is what has changed the dynamic in American politics.

GESIOTTO: There's extremes on both sides, though. It's not just pro- lifers.

GESIOTTO: On to something to a degree, there are a lot of split households. We've seen that before in politics. And I guarantee you, we'll see it again in this cycle. Everyone, hang on for us. Coming up next, Donald Trump is patient -- his patient medical chart is a mystery to all of us although we don't know about the former president's health as we go into this presidential election.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:42:22]

PHILLIP: August 20, that is when Donald Trump said that he would gladly release his medical records. But 44 days have passed and they remain nowhere to be seen. Back at the table here, one thing to note, obviously, Donald Trump is now the oldest candidate ever. And just a couple months ago, he took a bullet that grazed his ear. We haven't heard anything about that. He said that he would release these medical records. Why not?

PONNURU: He's planning to do it at the same time he releases his health care plan.

PHILLIP: Right, two weeks from now.

HAQ: And his tax records.

PONNURU: No, but look, these questions were debated about Biden and his health was -- and is a legitimate issue, so is Trump's. Trump will be the oldest -- if he wins -- the oldest person to take the oath of office. And it's of course, it's a reasonable thing that voters should be aware of.

GESIOTTO: But I do think there's a huge difference.

PHILLIP: This is an issue for Biden, Madison, though. If this was an issue for Biden, why is it not an issue for Biden?

GESIOTTO: Well, I think there's a huge difference between the way they present themselves, between the stamina that they have. I mean, you can say that you want to see his records and -- because of his age and I understand that.

I don't think that's necessarily wrong as he's running for president of the United States. However, to say that Biden and Trump are the same and that the stamina is the same or was the same is just simply a flat out lie.

PONNURU: Right, I wouldn't say that.

PHILLIP: I don't think it's about --

GESIOTTO: I mean, Trump is go, go, go.

GESIOTTO: This guy is has a better stamina than people 30 years his junior.

PHILLIP: It's not about perception. It's about health. And also, Trump was the one. I mean, he said he would do it. He said he has nothing to hide. I mean, look, typically with Trump, I mean, even when he was president, there wasn't a ton of information released, but there are some, first of all, in addition to his age, he had an actual medical issue, never released a doctor's report.

They had Ronnie Jackson come out and say, I saw him and he's fine, which is not enough. Even in past assassination attempts, he's been hospitalized for COVID. In the past, his medical records have said he had a high cholesterol, that he was overweight. I mean, don't the American people deserve to know?

GESIOTTO: He wouldn't be the first person running for office to be overweight. I mean, that's a bit silly, too, that we're going to release his medical records because he's overweight.

PHILLIP: No, no, I'm just -- I'm just saying -- GESIOTTO: I do agree with you that they can be released. I don't think that --

PHILLIP: -- those are the things -- those are just the things that we know about his medical state.

GESIOTTO: Of course,

PHILLIP: I'm not passing judgment on it. It's just what we know.

GESIOTTO: And I think there's also a lot of Democrats out there, which I think is very disgusting, that continue to claim that he wasn't actually shot and that there was no bullet in his ear. And that's pretty disturbing. You see that circling online daily.

JONES: Well, there's all kinds of nutty stuff online. I do think that this is a problem because there are two things that go together.

[22:50:00]

JONES: One is you have the oldest candidate and he doesn't seem healthy. We also have the youngest V.P. who's so far, he wrote a phony biography, served well in the military, sucked up to rich people, and has been in Senate for a year and a half. So, I'm worried that you're going to wind up not with Trump but with J.D. Vance as president.

And J.D. Vance, I think, is not yet tested. A year and a half in the Senate, people say Obama, he did four years, and people say he wasn't ready. So, I think it's a combination of a -- unqualified vanity pick on the V.P. side and a very unhealthy presidential pick that puts the country in a lot of jeopardy if we wind up with these guys winning.

HAQ: It's also the idea of transparency, right? This is something that has been consistent over presidential cycles, regardless of what people may say online. It's something that has been considered a right for the American public to know. And it became an issue in the campaign for between Obama and John McCain, the idea of who is a heartbeat away from the presidency?

PHILLIP: And that was a lot -- a lot of that was also because of John McCain's choice of Sarah Palin. Kind of like what Vance was saying, it raises the question in the minds of voters, you know, is this person who you picked to be your V.P. going to end up being actually a heartbeat away?

HAQ: And Donald Trump could be one of those miraculous people, because we do know some of these folks who can drink Coke all day and, you know, have McDonald's, serve McDonald's to athletes, and be fine, then tell us, right? Let us know that we can take that piece of worry and anxiety off the table about our presidency.

PHILLIP: Maybe at this point, we should just take the guesswork out of it and Congress should just say, if you're running for president, we should see your medical records. If you're running for vice president, we should see your medical records. I mean, this is a government -- yes. This is a national security issue, actually, at a certain point.

Everyone, stay with me. Coming up next, the panel will give us their nightcaps, including the bosses' potential impact on this election.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:56:39]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN PERFORMING "BORN IN THE U.S.A.")

PHILLIP: There's a little hint for you. We are back and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap. You each have 30 seconds to say your piece. Nayyera, you're up.

HAQ: Well, you don't -- no longer have to wonder if Bruce Springsteen, who he supports to lead this American land. He is no longer dancing in the dark at a diner in Freehold, not on the streets of Philadelphia, unfortunately. He endorsed Kamala Harris saying that he thinks that she'll probably be tougher than the rest.

PHILLIP: I guess -- was that a surprise?

HAQ: Right, the guy who loved Obama. But it does point to this idea of, like you said, Van, the broader coalition. The idea of Bruce Springsteen, you know, being welcomed in diners when some others aren't.

PHILLIP: Doesn't hurt -- doesn't hurt to have the boss on your side.

HAQ: Right, the union worker, right? Welcoming the white union worker.

PHILLIP: He was in a diner with Flanellon (ph), so --

JONES: I love it and I knew all those songs. Well-done, well-done.

PHILLIP: All right, Ramesh.

PONNURU: So, New York City Mayor Eric Adams is under federal indictment for corruption, and he has been getting some words of solidarity from his fellow federal indictee, Donald Trump. I would not be shocked if before too long, Adams rescinds his endorsement of Harris and maybe even tries to cast his electoral vote for Trump.

PHILLIP: Crazier things have happened. I mean, I don't think you can rule that out at all.

GESIOTTO: 2024 bingo card.

PHILLIP: I mean, there's a lot -- there's a lot going on.

PONNURU: Trump has given pardons to corrupt Democrats before.

PHILLIP: Well, and also Republicans have been backing him up on immigration. They've been backing him up on this idea he's being targeted. So, there's a lot of, kind of, kumbaya moments happening there. Madison.

GESIOTTO: A silver lining in the tragedy in North Carolina right now, we continue to see community rallying around each other. We continue to see Americans coming together from all sides of the political spectrum to do what's right and support these victims.

We saw today more airlifts happening, people coming in to volunteer from across the country. Ivanka flew in the 300 Starlink units donated by Elon Musk. I know Abby's not a fan of Elon, but -but -- we can all get behind that.

PHILLIP: Starlink is great technology. I have nothing against Starlink. I just have a problem with him spreading conspiracy theory tweets on Twitter.

GESIOTTO: And there's a lot of relief, obviously, yet to come, but the silver lining, of course, is seeing this happen and it's always a positive thing.

PHILLIP: Yes and actually, I mean, I think one of the things about these disasters is that you see just regular people who've given their entire life to helping other people, showing up almost as if they were the government and providing this kind of relief. It's amazing to see, honestly.

JONES: Alongside the government who's also showing up.

PHILLIP: Alongside the government, as well.

HAQ: There is a spare of generosity that we underestimate in the American public.

PHILLIP: Yes. All right, Van.

JONES: So -- so mine is a true hot take. So, all day long, this white Republican congressperson's been getting beat up because he dressed up like Michael Jackson 20 years ago. Who cares? Who cares?

[23:00:00]

If the worst thing happening in Black America is that 20 years ago somebody dressed up like Michael Jackson, Dr. King's dream has been realized, okay? We have a thousand more problems to worry about. It's not like, look, if you dressed up like Black people to demean Black people, slavery, coom stuff, this guy literally just dressed up like a super fan.

PHILLIP: He's a Michael Jackson super fan.

JONES: And so, listen, guys, I love you. Can we leave this dude alone and worry about some folks who are actually trying to hurt Black people, not Michael Jackson fans?

PHILLIP: Look, he's running for Congress. There are a lot of serious issues, that is not one of them.

JONES: That is not one of them.

PHILLIP: Everyone, thank you very much and thank you for watching "NewsNight" State of the Race. Laura Coates is up right now.