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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip

Harris And Trump Position Themselves As The Agent Of Change; Harris Declines To Distance Herself From Biden Or Policies; Book Says, Trump Had Up To Seven Calls With Putin After Leaving White House; Elon Musk Deletes Jokes About A Hypothetical Assassination Of The Sitting President And Vice President; Line Men Work Round The Clock To Restore Power In Helene-Affected Areas. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired October 08, 2024 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, with one month until America votes, Kamala Harris runs toward Joe Biden's legacy.

KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: There is not a thing that comes to mind.

PHILLIP: Plus, Secret Admirers, a new book reveals Donald Trump keeps in touch with Russia's Vladimir Putin.

Also Elon Musk laughs off an assassination of the Democratic nominee while his tech bro brethren complete a 180 from Trumpphobic to MAGAfiles.

Live at the table, Ashley Allison, Scott Jennings, Congressman Ro Khanna, Scott Taylor and Kara Swisher.

With 27 days to go. Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Philip in New York.

Let's get right to what America is talking about. Which candidate can make your life better? Well, Kamala Harris is in the middle of a media tour, and today she got a question that speaks to what's on your mind, the direction of the country and what it's headed for, and how it might look different if she had led the country through the last four years and not Joe Biden.

Well, her answer singled out that she was a little surprised by the question. Just listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you have done something differently than President Biden during the past four years? HARRIS: There is not a thing that comes to mind in terms of -- and I've been a part of most of the decisions that have had impact.

Listen, I plan on having a Republican in my cabinet. You ask me, what's the difference between Joe Biden and me? Well, that will be one of the differences. I'm going to have a Republican in my cabinet because I don't feel burdened by letting pride get in the way of a good idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: All right. We're here at the table. It is surprising that she didn't have an answer canned and ready to go for that question, which is kind of at the core of what voters are asking themselves. Who is really the candidate who's going to give them change here?

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, Scott, you're like --

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm all for you.

ALLISON: Yes.

PHILLIP: Ashley was feeling the energy in Scott.

JENNINGS: You go ahead.

ALLISON: No, I mean, I would have said, actually, one of the things that I was doing different is what I'm talking about here today on this show, and it's introducing that the care economy is going to be center in my campaign, because we have a country who is burdened by having to care for our parents that we were just talking about, because there are things that are different.

But here's the thing that answer shows me is that Kamala Harris is a loyal person to her boss, and she's not going to use an interview to throw him under the bus for click bait.

PHILLIP: I don't think it has to be throwing under the bus, but, I mean, it is a legitimate question for voters, like what is the next four years going to look like that is different from the last four years?

JENNINGS: She is running on the slogan of a new way forward. And she said today we're going to stay on the same path, which is I think everyone would admit not a popular path.

I mean, Biden has put some handcuffs on her. I mean, he has gone out last week and said she helped me pass every law. She was part of every decision. I mean, he's making it difficult for her to get any separation. And then she has also, in the last few days, said Biden is totally with it, totally vouch for his mental acuity, and today says, yes, I can't really think of anything that I would have done differently.

This must be very confusing for American voters who must be thinking, then why are you running? Why isn't he running? If he's up to it and you wouldn't change anything, then why is Joe Biden not in this race right now? I thought, but who goes on The View and gets outsmarted, by the way. I mean, this was a total disaster for her.

KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Although if she had a canned answer, you would have said, ah, she has --

JENNINGS: No, I would have said good job, separate yourself. It would be the wise political strategy.

SWISHER: She has done that in several different times. But in this case she just was giving the answer off the top of her head and it's fine to do that. At one time, you want her to be sort of unscripted and other times people want her to be scripted or shouldn't be scripted. And so I think she just said she's going to be loyal this guy. I think you're absolutely right, she cannot, especially as a woman, throw him under the bus. She needs to look loyal and she has been loyal to him. And I think people would find that upsetting if she threw him under the bus, too, whatever she does in that case.

PHILLIP: I hear what you're saying, Scott. And I think, logically, yes, it seems that it would be difficult for her to separate herself from Biden, but look at this New York Times/Siena poll asked which candidate represents change. 46 percent say Harris. 44 percent say Trump, which candidate represent is a strong leader, 45 percent say Harris, 48 percent say Trump. So, something in there tells me that voters are -- yes, they actually do think that she's going to be different from Biden.

[22:05:02]

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, and one of the most important issues of our time, abortion rights, reproductive rights, she is different. She's clearer. She's visited a reproductive health clinic. She's more passionate. She doesn't have to say it. It's obvious. This is why the race is neck-and-neck. Women are supporting her much more than they supported Joe Biden. And I think you know, whether she flubbed an answer or not or loyal, the point is everyone knows that she's a clear moral voice on an issue that really matters.

PHILLIP: So, one of the other interesting things about this kind of press tour that she's doing is that we are seeing a different side of her. I mean, she's going to places like Howard Stern, to The View, to Call Her Daddy. And here is --

FMR. REP. SCOTT TAYLOR (R-VA): Say it again.

PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, that's --

SWISHER: Can I just stop? This is in one of the biggest shows in the world.

KHANNA: Bigger than yours?

SWISHER: Much. I wish it was. But here's the thing. Like it is huge, and I think most people do not recognize this, including all the cable stations. Like, ha, ha, ha, this is an important show. This is the Howard Stern of women, if you want to make it -- if you have to make it.

TAYLOR: Probably better than Howard Stern now.

SWISHER: Howard Stern's pretty good. For a long time, he's had an amazing career in that regard.

But this is an important venue for her to be on, and I can't underscore it. I was talking to a group of people, and some people were joking about it. Every young person I said, you don't understand this, all the young people are like, thank you. Like you have to understand how important --

PHILLIP: Absolutely. I mean, let me just play real quick before you jump in. This is her talking to 60 Minutes. This is traditional media. But she's talking about the gun that she owns that a lot of Republicans have questioned, is it real? Where is it? Here's her talking about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, what kind of gun do you own and when and why did you get it?

HARRIS: I have a Glock. And I've had it for quite some time. And, I mean, look, Bill, my background is in law enforcement. And so there you go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever fired it?

HARRIS: Yes, of course, I have, at a shooting range. Yes, of course I have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: All right. So, can we lay this to rest? Are you satisfied that she owns a gun, that she --

TAYLOR: It doesn't matter to me. I guess, you know, let me talk about just briefly about a couple of things that we just said. Like I don't want her to have canned answers. I don't want her -- you know, I want her to be authentic. And that's another case right there. She's like, I own a Glock, you know, well, and I've had it for quite some time. Well, quite some time ago, she also supported legislation that would have banned that Glock and would have confiscated inside city limits that Glock. So, I just --

PHILLIP: In Washington or in California?

TAYLOR: In California. So -- and in San Francisco specifically.

So, I just find her to be very inauthentic and I think a lot of folks do as well. So, I think it is important for her to go on those mediums and nontraditional media, just like President Trump, has many, many times in many podcasts. I think it's extremely important. I want her to. I want her to do as much media as possible, because I believe the more that people see her, the more they see the inauthenticity and the more they dislike her.

PHILLIP: Do you think that she should have done more media earlier? I mean, I don't want to go too deep into this conversation, but, I mean, the big picture of all of this, and I'll play another clip in a moment, but the big picture of all of this, do you think that she is doing just fine, and why not see this part of her a month ago?

ALLISON: Who knows if she should? I mean, honestly, like I know that like mainstream media wants to be like, she should have done it. We've never seen a campaign like this before. So, people who act like they know exactly what's happening here, they also have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn, okay? So, I just think that like we will know on November 6th or 7th or 8th or 9th, whatever it's called, whether or not she should have done more media.

I think the question is, at the end of the campaign, when you look at the hours of interviews, interviews, not Fox News, not like, you know, but interviews that Kamala Harris has done and Donald Trump has done, I bet you they almost average out to be the same. And I think the way we cover it is different because we cover Donald Trump and Kamala Harris differently. Whether we like it or not, that's the case. I mean, I hear --

PHILLIP: We will see.

ALLISON: We will see.

PHILLIP: We'll go back.

ALLISON: But we also -- but I think we should do it per capita for how long they've been in the race.

PHILLIP: But she really has not done it. And even with this blitz, she really still has not done a lot of it.

SWISHER: Yes, she's really done in mainstream media. They're very active on social media. Everything has changed, and mainstream media doesn't seem to get that still, I don't know, 20 years into the internet age. People consume things much differently than they used to. And you have to just respond to that. And in her case, she's doing what she wants to do. That's why The New York Times is squawking, because they haven't gotten the interview. But maybe things have changed.

TAYLOR: She's only had the, you know, the Call Me Daddy and Howard Stern.

ALLISON: And she had All The Smoke, and then All The Smoke, Matt Barnes, and Stephen Jackson were on the Breakfast Club today talking about, which reads -- but I think it's just like -- it's a strategy.

PHILLIP: It's not an either or thing. I mean, but you got to acknowledge that just because she has the ability to do friendly interviews doesn't mean that that's the only thing that she should do.

[22:10:01] I think it's totally fine for her to do it. It's just that it's also fine for her to do, quote/unquote, mainstream media because --

ALLISON: Well, what mainstream media is Donald Trump doing, I guess, is my --

PHILLIP: I mean, I think that's a totally fair question. Scott, go ahead.

JENNINGS: I think even some of the friendly nontraditional interviews have not turned out that well, but her contact with the mainstream media, I mean, the 60 Minutes interview, you know, on issue after issue, I think, did not really help her campaign. The immigration answers did not help her campaign. You know, denying answering the question three times about whether they made the right decisions on the immigration changes that led the flood of people into the country.

So, I think the reason they're shying away from it is because often her rhetoric doesn't survive contact with the mainstream media. It's more apt to survive contact when you go on The View, usually. But it's a tough thing for her.

KHANNA: Even then it was --

PHILLIP: Let me play one quick thing just because I think this is actually an important shift in messaging. This is her on Howard Stern taking a page honestly out of Donald Trump's book.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: I do believe that this is an election that is about strength versus weakness and weakness as projected by someone who puts himself in front of the American people and does not have the strength to stand in defense of their needs, their dreams, their desires.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: That's a different message, but it sounds like it's one that could very well be effective, especially since Trump is trying to run as the strong candidate. I mean, he himself has said, like a strong man.

KHANNA: I think she showed that also in the debate, where she went toe to toe with Donald Trump and came out stronger, and that was against a former president. I think that's where she came off as presidential. But my view is it's not as important for her to do as much mainstream media. I mean, I think she's done fine. I think she needs to go on factory floors. I think she needs to go on town halls. I think she needs to go in the rural communities.

And the place where I've actually seen her grow tremendously is her connection with voters on a retail level. I've seen her when she was a district attorney in San Francisco and you look at her now there was an image of her connecting with a young girl and how she connected effortlessly. Put her out there with voters. They're the ones who are going to decide. SWISHER: Also, CEOs aren't doing these anymore either. Everybody is going directly to people now. I used to do lots of CEO interviews. It's very hard to get them now. Mark Zuckerberg goes to friendly venues where they say, oh, what a large head you have, how did you think up that, or whatever. It's a change in the whole media ecosystem because they have their own direct way. And I think a lot of media has to think about that.

TAYLOR: Well, I think, you know, you mentioned her change in rhetoric where she's trying to -- okay, now, I'm the strong person, Donald Trump is the weak person. Just speaking as a dude, right, a country guy, you know, I'm just telling you right now, I mean, I talk to lots of guys, you know, I'm a bro. So, when you talk to people, no one's looking at her and saying this is the strong leader. And that plays out in the data. You see that in the data.

PHILLIP: That's a whole other conversation.

TAYLOR: It's fine. It's not a sexist sexist thing to say, which is what people dismiss it as.

PHILLIP: I think that is worth unpacking 100 percent and it is a challenge for her, but it may not be for the reason that you're saying.

Everyone stick around for us. Coming up next, stunning revelations from Bob Woodward's new book, including Trump's secret calls to Vladimir Putin, his secret COVID deliveries to Putin, and what Biden really thinks of America's allies and adversaries.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:15:00]

PHILLIP: Tonight, phoning a friend? Well, only if that friend is from Russia and a murderous autocrat at that. A new book from Bob Woodward details the post-presidency relationship between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. According to a copy of the book that CNN obtained, Woodward reports that there have been maybe as many as seven calls between Trump and Putin since Trump left the White House in 2021.

Now, Harris weighed in. She says the relationship reveals the core of who Donald Trump is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: I believe Donald Trump has this desire to be a dictator. He admires strong men and he gets played by them because he thinks that they're his friends and they are manipulating him full time and manipulating him by flattery and with favor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: So, Scott Taylor, is it fair to ask what was he doing on these calls and why so many of them?

TAYLOR: It's fair to ask, of course, if it's true. I don't know if it's true. I know it's his reporting. It's the same thing with John Kerry when he was meeting with the Iranian officials after he was out of office. It's fair to ask, you know, what's he talking about? I guess it's fair to ask for sure.

PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, I should note that Trump called that illegal when Kerry did it. He said it was a huge problem.

TAYLOR: Okay, and obviously the Trump campaign has put out a statement that it was false. So, I'm not sure if it's true or not.

But I will say that Mrs. Harris was sent over to stop the war, and shortly after there, Putin invaded, as he did under Obama and Biden. So, it's my opinion that the next president, and hopefully it'll be Donald Trump, has the ability to speak to Putin. And I know that's a dirty word in a lot of circles, which is sort of ridiculous, because you need to be speaking to your enemy, of course. And I think that Donald Trump, as opposed to Harris, has the ability to potentially stop World War III.

[22:20:02]

And that's what I'm betting on.

SWISHER: Well, first of all, she was over there to warn Zelenskyy about the upcoming invasion, so that's oddly inaccurate.

TAYLOR: It's not oddly inaccurate. That's absolutely not true.

SWISHER: No, she was over there to talk --

TAYLOR: She was over there for a show of force to deter Putin from invading. That's why she was there. That's not true.

SWISHER: People didn't believe that they were going to invade and they had intelligence, including in the Woodward book about this.

The second thing is, he's a private citizen. He shouldn't be talking to Vladimir Putin. That's just really pretty much basic stuff. He also shouldn't be meeting with other world leaders. It's not -- he's not -- and we have a government --

TAYLOR: That happens all the time.

SWISHER: I understand that, but this is a unique situation.

TAYLOR: Does Obama meet with world leaders? All the time.

SWISHER: But not in the same fashion.

PHILLIP: Scott, an adversary, that's the question here. An adversary like -- well, I'm asking you, an adversary like Vladimir Putin, does that not change the calculus here?

JENNINGS: Yes, I don't love the optics of him talking to Putin, just to be honest, because --

PHILLIP: And, by the way, in the middle of a war, there's like a war going on.

JENNINGS: But it's not surprising to me that a former U.S. president, Republican or Democrat, would have conversations with world leaders that they had some relationship with. I know the book also, you know, sort of made a big deal out of this idea that he sent these like COVID tests or whatever to Putin.

But I've been wondering -- yes, the machines. I've been wondering, though, today, like what is more concerning? These conversations and these COVID machines or the fact that we've been sending billions to the Iranians who are now funding terrorism and attacking our biggest ally, and Kamala Harris goes on T.V. and says this is our biggest geopolitical foe, which it's not? But the relationship between Biden and Obama and Harris and the Iranians, to me, is far more troubling than this Putin issue.

PHILLIP: I just want to clarify here, you're talking about the Iran nuclear deal, and you're talking about the unfreezing of Iranian assets. That's not the same thing as Obama sending billions of dollars to Iran. Congressman, I'm curious what you think about all this.

KHANNA: I mean, obviously, I don't think he should have been talking to him seven times, but the bigger issue is, what does he want to do going forward? Because he keeps saying he wants to end the war. Well, what does that mean? Does he mean, okay, we're going to give away a fifth of Ukraine, because that's what Putin wants? And then if he does that and he ends the war on those terms, then are we going to say, okay, China, if you invade Taiwan, I'll tell you what, you can have a fifth of Taiwan and we'll end the war?

He's never answered the question and the war on what terms. And if someone -- if he has a solution, then share it with us.

PHILLIP: Yes, I think that's such an important point because, I mean, look, the retrospective part of this is interesting, but it is a question of Trump has been saying for months that he has some special relationship with Putin, that he would release the political prisoners, that he would be able to solve this war in 24 hours.

Let me just play a little bit about what Trump has been saying about his relationship with Putin of late.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I know Putin very well. I have a good relationship and they respect your president, okay? They respect me. They don't respect Biden.

I got to know President Xi of China and Putin of Russia, got to know a lot of the leaders. They're tough cookies and smart.

We have a very good relationship, and I also have a very good relationship, as you know, with President Putin. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: I hope we have more good relations.

TRUMP: Oh, I see. Yes, but, you know, it takes two to tango.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLISON: I think the thing that is --

PHILLIP: It's just incredible, but what is he going to do? What is the actual plan? That is what Americans want to know.

ALLISON: I'll be brief here. The only thing I'll say is that I think the reason why former presidents talking to international and foreign leaders might happen all the time. The difference here is Donald Trump is running to be the president again. And so what conversations is he having after he had got out of office making deals that might be undermining our current government? That is the thing that makes me that hasn't really been brought up in this conversation that makes me very concerned. And they, I think, deserves a bit more scrutiny than for people, than an Obama, than a Bush having a conversation with another foreign leader.

TAYLOR: So, I think Ro is correct here, or not correct, excuse me. I think he has a great point when he's like, what's the plan, right? But it's important to say if you're negotiating something or if you're going to -- let's say he becomes a president and he has to negotiate the end or peace or something like that, you're not just going to throw your plan out there. That is kind of ridiculous, you would say.

PHILLIP: But don't you think he owes the American people more details other than saying, I'm just going to snap my fingers and it'll be solved? That is not how -- I don't think that passes any kind of leadership test for any person, really.

TAYLOR: I understand that we want to hear more. I understand Zelenskyy wants to hear more. But here's the reality, and it's, Putin's the devil, people have been saying that for months, if you even said his name it was bad, you can't talk to him. But the reality is, more likely than not, unless we're in a nuclear war, there will be a political negotiated peace settlement. And how that goes down, what it looks like, what the plan is, you can't say it right now because you just don't know.

[22:25:01]

It's unrealistic to say, what's your plan for the peace settlement right now? Put all your cards on the table right now. It's just unrealistic.

SWISHER: Except we want that specificity from Kamala Harris. And here's the thing.

TAYLOR: I don't.

JENNINGS: I don't either. SWISHER: Let me just say this.

TAYLOR: I don't want that.

SWISHER: Let me just say I am lesbian from San Francisco and Happy International Lesbian Day today.

TAYLOR: Happy International Lesbian Day.

SWISHER: I have to tell you, you may not realize this, but Russia is our enemy. They really, truly are. And you can't say talk to them. They are. They absolutely are. They all kinds of --

TAYLOR: You still have to speak to them.

SWISHER: I didn't say you didn't have to speak to them, but you have to understand, they are our adversary, they're absolute adversary. I can't believe I'm more conservative than you on, so is China.

TAYLOR: You aren't more conservative than me. I'm not someone who just had to put a Ukraine flag in my front yard, because, hold on, the reality is, for the last few years, as Ro knows, I've been helping out substantially in that conflict. So, trust me when I say to you, I'm more conservative than you, I want to end that. But the reality is, it will be a political solution.

SWISHER: Of course.

TAYLOR: That's what's going to happen.

JENNINGS: I think you're both making correct points. I agree with you. They are the enemy. And I agree with you. We do have to talk to them. I think the point Trump has continuously made is, I will command more respect from all parties involved than Harris or that Biden has. And even in this Woodward book, which we're referencing today, Biden is blaming Obama for Russia's aggressiveness in the first place.

And so it would be reasonable for a person to read that and assume there is some dysfunction in the Democratic ranks that is emboldening or making -- that Putin feel emboldened about what he's done. And Trump is playing on that. He's saying, look, they respect me more, therefore, I'm more capable of getting to a quick solution.

SWISHER: Or they think he's a dupe.

PHILLIP: Well, I think that was -- well, I was going to say, there is a character question that is raised by all of this, just given, I mean, Trump's praise for Putin, his praise just generally for autocrats. It does kind of seem like, Trump just really likes Vladimir Putin. And I wonder if that is something that voters should care about, voters should weigh as they weigh their choices?

KHANNA: Well, the problem is he's offering no principles. No one's asking him for a specific plan. But the question is, are you going to rule out giving territory? Is there certain territory you rule out getting What are the general principles that you're offering? But here's where there's two different standards, and it's because Donald Trump has been president, people, you know, are used to that, and Vice President Harris hasn't. And so people say, ah, he's been president, I give him the benefit of the doubt, and Harris has a higher bar. I mean, that's the reality of what's happened on the campaign.

TAYLOR: If Vice President Harris wins the presidency, and I think, Scott, you would agree with me, I don't want her to put a plan out on the table for negotiation to get us out of World War III. You don't want to put any of your cards on the table at the moment, because you just don't know what it's going to look like. You know, it's going to be a political solution. The question about territory, same thing, you don't know. I mean, the realistically speaking on the ground, you're not getting Russia out of Crimea. That's not going to happen.

PHILLIP: We do have to go, but I wonder if you say that, and maybe I don't know if you agree with that, Scott. If you're just going to go off of, you know, Kamala weak, Trump strong, I mean, is that really a basis to evaluate people's foreign policy? You guys have both said that you think Trump is going to get the country out of World War III. On what basis is that?

TAYLOR: Our Navy is sitting in the Red Sea, basically being target practice for the Houthis right now.

PHILLIP: But on what basis do you say that Trump is going to be the one to get this -- to prevent World War III?

TAYLOR: On the four years of his presidency where we had no new wars, where he was able to -- I can tell you firsthand and, Ro, I know you've been working on Yemen for years. The Houthi rebels wanted to negotiate with Trump. I set up meetings for that. They wanted to -- you see what's happening now under Biden-Harris. Our Navy are sitting in the Red Sea being target practice. I mean, you have four years of Biden-Harris, and you have four years of Trump and foreign policy, and you see where the world is today.

JENNINGS: By the way, I mean, they're evaluating some of this through what happened in Afghanistan. I mean, let's be honest. That's when Biden and Harris went underwater August of 2021. And there has been a real concern about their judgment on foreign policy ever since. So, I think Harris has a high bar, if only because we saw what happened in Afghanistan when she said she couldn't think of one thing that she would have changed about Biden, the fact that she didn't say I wish we could have gotten a better outcome for those 13 soldiers. I do think that's in people's minds right now as they're making up their minds.

PHILLIP: Okay, everyone, hang tight for us. Coming up next, Elon Musk jokes about a hypothetical assassination of Kamala Harris as the tech bro culture turns to Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:33:59]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, BILLIONAIRE AND CEO, X, TESLA, SPACEX: I made a joke which I realized I deleted which is like nobody's even bothering to try to kill Kamala because it's pointless. What do you achieve? Nobody's trying to kill Joe Biden. Some people interpreted it as though I was calling for people to assassinate her but I was like no we even, you know, I was like, doesn't seem strange that no one's even bothered to try.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Just absolutely hilarious. That is Elon Musk laughing at his kind of joking about a hypothetical assassination of the sitting president and vice president.

SWISHER: Yes.

PHILLIP: What is going on?

SWISHER: I'm sure it was funny when he told the employees he paid and they laughed hysterically at his joke. It's ridiculous. What he's surrounded by are enablers who laugh at everything he says and therefore either tweets it or he says it. And right there he had, you know, another person, you know, sort of this washed up TV star, who was laughing at his joke, which isn't funny.

[22:35:01]

And everyone who looked at it was, you know, same thing with the jump, awkward, weird, cringy.

PHILLIP: This was Saturday at the rally.

SWISHER: And so, he just doesn't have people around him to say, anymore --anyone who is like that has been cut out of his life and everyone claps when he says it.

PHILLIP: And now suddenly, I mean, he's kind of at the center of the universe, the political conservative universe. He was at the Butler rally, I think, which is what Kara was talking about, with Trump on Saturday jumping up and down bizarrely.

SWISHER: Taking attention from Trump.

PHILLIP: Taking attention from Trump. How did -- how did Elon get here? And do you think that he should be where he is in terms of the influence that he has on your party right now?

JENNINGS: Oh, look, I think rich people often have influence in politics. It's not just in the Republican Party, it's in the Democratic Party, as well. We seem to be more concerned when billionaires are for Republicans than we are when they're for Democrats, and they spend copious amounts of money to elect Democrats cycle after cycle after cycle after cycle.

PHILLIP: I think part of it is also Elon's -- JENNINGS: Sure.

PHILLIP: -- like, irrational, like he had instability. There's a part of it that has --

JENNINGS: He occupies an outside space in our culture because of X, formerly Twitter, because of SpaceX, because --I mean, he's into a lot of things that people are very interested in. Now, this comment, like I've been as critical as anybody of what I think is the rhetoric around Trump that is extremely dangerous. And we can't joke about these things, okay? Because there are crazy people in this world who hear these things. And you know, I think they take it seriously.

And so, if we're going to, look, my view is if we're going to be upset -- and I am unhappy about the rhetoric around Trump, I don't want any of this anywhere near Kamala Harris either because I think all these people deserve our protection from this kind of rhetoric that makes politicians something less than what they are, which is human beings.

KHANNA: I appreciate you saying that, Scott. I think where the Democrats started to lose Elon was actually personal. We should have celebrated his contributions to electric vehicles even though he was against unionization and stood up the unions.

We should have said look, Starlink -- great product that -- that needs to be used. We should celebrate the fact that he's had the first commercial success of private people in space and I think a lot of it was that we didn't celebrate it and he felt offended.

SWISHER: He does get a lot of attention.

PHILLIP: I mean, I'm genuinely curious. I mean, was there something, do you think, that Democrats did?

SWISHER: Yes.

PHILLIP: What was the thing that they did to alienate Elon Musk?

SWISHER: I got a call from him about it when he wasn't invited to that E.V. summit. He should have been invited. I called the White House. I never called the White House.

PHILLIP: Yes.

SWISHER: I'm like, why didn't you invite him? He's very angry. And in fact, I had an interview with Pete Buttigieg at the time, who also was a little bit glib about it. And I was like he's critically important in this sector. I think the union thing was the big deal of why they didn't invite him, and they should have. He deserved that credit for what he's been doing.

KHANNA: And then people were tweeting out about his private flights and taking a private plane.

SWISHER: I'm sorry, free speech.

PHILLIP: I don't think Democrats get blamed for that.

KHANNA: No, no, I'm just saying that, look, and I think he should stay off Twitter. I certainly think he shouldn't be making jokes about the vice president. But I think with the Democrats, remember, he was a supporter of Obama.

PHILLIP: Yes.

KHANNA: Bill Clinton, Obama had this, and we are the party. That is John F. Kennedy. That is about innovation. That is about entrepreneurship.

TAYLOR: They didn't initially give him a text letter.

KHANNA: We should be celebrating that part of it.

PHILLIP: So, there is a -- the union thing is such an interesting part of this. I want to play what Sean O'Brien, he's the head of the Teamsters -- what he's been saying about why Democrats are losing some of these working-class union voters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN O'BRIEN, TEAMSTERS PRESIDENT: I'll be honest with you. I'm a Democrat but they have (BEEP) us over for the last 40 years and for once -- and not all of them. But for once, we're standing up as a union, probably the only one right now, saying, what the (BEEP) have you done for us?

UNKNOWN: Yes,

O'BRIEN: And I'm getting attacked from the left, you know, and we've given, since I've been in office two and a half years, we've given the Democratic machine $15.7 million. We've given Republicans about $340,000, truth be told. So, it's like, you know, people say the Democratic Party is the party of the working people. They're bought and paid for by big tech. That big, those big tech companies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: I'd like to introduce you to Elon Musk who is all into robotics. Are you kidding? Elon and the rest of the world are --

PHILLIP: I don't know the full answer to the question. I just do know that Democrats did bail out their pensions.

KHANNA: We bailed out their pensions. We stood up for the PROAC, the right to organize. We stood up, and I know Sean, and Sean knows this, that we stood up against automation on the big trucks in California. But here is, I think, some of the frustration. Over the last 40 years, it's been a bipartisan consensus in many ways that hollowed out manufacturing in this country.

We saw small towns decimated. We saw steel move to China. And people are upset. And some people blame everyone. Some people blame Republicans. [22:40:00]

Some people blame the Democrats. But I think Democrats should start by saying there were -- people made mistakes and we want to earn back that trust.

PHILLIP: Yes, but is it Big Tech's fault?

ALLISON: No.

PHILLIP: And at this point, can you really say that the Democrats are the party, you know, the party of Big Tech at this point?

ALLISON: I don't know. I mean, that's not where I was going with my point. But sure, maybe. I mean, I think. Okay, I'll say that, sure. We're the party of big tech. I think though, the question I thought you were going to ask me is that, are we the party of the working class?

And I want to just take a step back and say like, well, what is working class these days? And I think when people say that, they mean white men in the middle of the country. And I think that then we should use a different descriptor and we'll -- cause there are a lot of people who are working class that have, from every different background.

I also think for the Teamsters to say -- to the Congressman's point -- we have stood behind labor. Where's Trump on the picket line? Where's Trump saving Lordstown in my hometown where it closed? It was on the verge of closing in Youngstown, Ohio. It was his policies that took that factory out. And it was the Biden policies that brought it back. Wait. It was the Biden policy that brought chips in manufacturing.

I think that the problem is, is that working-class people feel like no party is really talking to them. And they're looking for people that they can identify with. And it's not about policy. So, when you say here in the first segment and I'm not attacking you on this, but when you say, I don't see her as strong --

TAYLOR: I don't.

ALLISON: Okay, but I'm not, I want to have a real conversation with you right now.

TAYLOR: Sure. It's my opinion.

ALLISON: What --what black women do you see as strong? And what black women do you have in your life right now?

TAYLOR: It's not about -- it's not about race. I know plenty of strong black women. It's not about -- don't bring up the race thing.

ALLISON: The reason why I say is that like, is because we are human beings and the way we engage with things is by proximity. And if you've ever worked in --you know that. You know that it's all about, you're saying go on the factory floor is because you want to connect to the human experience.

TAYLOR: Of course.

ALLISON: And if you've never really connected to a strong black woman in your life, then maybe you don't actually understand what her strength is.

SWISHER: First of all, Trump with Elon Musk joked about firing people and anti-union in his discussion. That's one. Two, Democrats or Republicans, guess what? Automation is coming, whether you like it or not. And Elon Musk is behind it and Reid Hoffman is behind it, along with A.I.

It's coming, Sean. Like, I'm sorry to tell you, just the way mechanized farming was coming, just the way information workers are going to be replaced in certain ways. And so, it's not a Democrat or Republican at all. It's all of the rich people and they will in two seconds replace you with a real ally.

TAYLOR: It's not just about tech. I mean, you -- sorry?

PHILLIP: Go ahead.

TAYLOR: I mean, you -- when President Trump came into office, it's because you had this fraying of a post-World War II world order where you had had hollowed out middle class across the country, black, white, brown, didn't matter. Everyone was hollowed out.

So, Trump was coming into office talking to those people. And the first major piece of legislation, which was tax reform, had incentives to bring capital back and manufacturing back. And since that first piece of legislation, every single major piece of legislation since then, Democrat or Republican, has had, whether it's chips or what have you, have had incentives to bring manufacturing back. So, both parties recognize that this is an issue that these are the people that he speaks to.

ALLISON: But he's not pro-labor.

PHILLIP: Real quick, Sir.

ALLISON: But he's not pro-labor. He doesn't support unions. He doesn't believe in --

JENNINGS: He supports working-class Americans but I wanted to --

ALLISON: But working-class Americans get protected through unions. We know that when working-class people don't have the ability to negotiate, when UAW went on strike because the CEOs, year after year, of those big three-car companies got raises and those individuals that were on the factory line, that we're saying these candidates need to go talk to, they weren't getting raises after they had the bailout happened.

Donald Trump doesn't care that their union is protecting them. Joe Biden is the one who says we want them to have collective bargaining. When I was in Ohio and they wanted --Wisconsin -- Scott Walker wanted to get rid of collective bargaining.

John Kasich, Ohio, wanted to get rid of collective bargaining. Donald Trump doesn't believe in collective bargaining, which is a core tenet of labor policy. So, for the Teamsters, which then would mean the Teamsters would not exist. Janice, the Supreme Court, all of these policies.

PHILLIP: I think just as a factual matter, that is very true, which is what makes this so bizarre. Scott.

JENNINGS: I know we got to go.

PHILLIP: Really, really quickly, we got to go.

JENNINGS: If it's true what you say, that the Democrats have been far more supportive, why is it that Kamala Harris cannot secure the traditional union endorsements? She lost the firefighters, she lost the Teamsters, she lost the Fraternal Order police. Why is it that the big union organizations are playing --

ALLISON: Well, the Fraternal Order police didn't endorse Joe Biden either. The Teamsters, the National, didn't endorse either, but she got a collective 20 separate -- across the country where you have a diversity -- but that's what I'm saying is that but it's not about the policy.

PHILLIP: Yes.

ALLISON: It's about the connection and there is the under -- that we actually have to talk about.

PHILLIP: This is like the conversation earlier on the show which is -- we need to unpack that.

[22:45:05]

ALLISON: Why are you --

PHILLIP: Because there's a lot. Well, there's a lot in that conversation. Everyone, hold on for us. Coming up next. One more month, believe it or not before election day. Governor Tim Walz says the electoral college, "needs to go". We'll discuss that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:49:44]

PHILLIP: Tonight, Tim Walz says that the country needs to throw out how it does elections. The Democratic vice presidential nominee telling supporters, mingling at Gavin Newsom's home, that, "The electoral college needs to go." Why? Well, maybe it has something to do with the fact that Democrats have been winning the popular vote in every presidential election cycle since 2008.

[22:50:07]

Is it time?

KHANNA: Well, yes, but the way we're going to get it is the compact, which is every state says we're going to vote for the popular vote winner and we get to 270. But let me say something before that. It is an extraordinary moment, in my view, in this country, that we have an Indian American, African American woman who has at least a 50 percent chance of becoming President of the United States.

And when I think of my upbringing in the 1980s, and I didn't even know if we could have an Indian American in Congress, and you look at how far we've come, I think Kamala Harris is capable of winning any of these states in the Midwest. I think she's capable of connecting. And for a moment, we should celebrate how far this country has come.

JENNINGS: This is what we call bad body language, by the way. You're running to win the electoral college and you're out saying, well, maybe we ought to get rid of the electoral college. Look, I think this is an indication of just how far the Democrats are straying from our norms. They want to pack the Supreme Court.

Walz himself wants restrictions on the First Amendment. He's trying to throw out the electoral college. They want to eliminate the filibuster in the U.S. Senate. Norm after norm after norm apparently means nothing to this ticket, I think people ought to take notice.

PHILLIP: I mean, you're going to talk about norms.

ALLISON: Overthrow the election on January 6th.

PHILLIP: There are a lot of norms.

ALLISON: So, that's the norm that I think we've actually seen.

PHILLIP: You have to acknowledge that, right?

ALLISON: Activate it, not just talk about it.

JENNINGS: I'm just saying, there's norms.

ALLISON: I also think the electoral -

JENNINGS: Democrats talk about norms and they're trying to fill out the norms.

ALLISON: No, I think the electoral college should be banned and should be abolished because I think that it doesn't allow for an accurate representation. We know the history of the electoral college, it actually has racial undertones. It was put in place.

I mean, it's true. And so, we are a country that can change our rules and change our laws. That's why that is what a democracy is about. I don't think we should do it in a haphazard way if it's a constitutional amendment or if it's D.C. statehood. But yes, the electoral college should go.

PHILLIP: And we should note, he did talk about what you're saying, which is that they have to go out and win the states in the electoral college because this election, that's how it's going to be decided. Everyone stay with me. Coming up next. Our panel is here to give us their nightcaps including why one of Trump's bromances won't end well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:56:53]

PHILLIP: We're back and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap. You each have 30 seconds to say your piece. Scott Taylor, you're the newbie at the table. You're up first.

TAYLOR: The newbie. Well, thanks for having me for sure. Mine was about Iran. When the vice president said that was the greatest threat to the United States, it really caught my attention. Because I was like, okay, it's one of a couple things here.

One, she's misinformed. Two, it's to cover politics and political weakness in the region. Of course, our allies getting attacked there. Or three, with all our assets in the region and with the turmoil, are we going to war with Iran? It really caught my attention when she said that.

But that's my hot take, but I do want to give, you know, make sure everybody's safe down in Florida and the rest of the country in the hurricane path, as well as kudos to all those folks out there helping everybody and keeping them safe, and the linemen, of course.

PHILLIP: Yes, we are thinking about them in Florida tonight and for the next couple of days, as well. Kara?

SWISHER: Briefly, we talked earlier about Elon Musk appearing at Donald Trump's rally in Butler, Pennsylvania. I think they're going to have a falling out someday because Elon sucked up information from our greatest information sponge -- attention sponge, who is Donald Trump. And there can be only one, and Donald Trump is the one. And so, I think he was a little wary. And Elon will be too loud for him eventually and it will be an ugly end to the bromance.

PHILLIP: It was very interesting to see them together this weekend. Scott Jennings.

JENNINGS: In my non-CNN life, I have a long-standing professional association with the Kentucky Electric Cooperatives and they sent me some pictures today and I wanted to give a shout out to the 10,000 co- op line workers from about two dozen states who have descended on the area devastated by Helene.

These guys are working 16 hours a day to restore power. So, some people curse the darkness. These guys literally light candles one line at a time. So, thank you to the line workers of America.

PHILLIP: That's amazing. I love that. Thanks, Scott. Go ahead, Ro.

KHANNA: Well, thanks to them. I grew up outside Philadelphia, so I was still a Phillies fan. We didn't have a good night tonight to the Mets, but my prediction is we win the series and we go to the World Series. Two reasons. Wheeler's going to be on the mound on game five and Schwarber. Anne Harper are going to come through for us in the next two games.

PHILLIP: All right.

SWISHER: What did he just say?

ALLISON: I know.

PHILLIP: I was looking at you to translate that for me.

SWISHER: No, I'm the only lesbian who hates sports.

PHILLIP: All right. People at home, they heard your heart on that one. Go ahead, Ashley.

ALLISON: Well, I grew up in the Midwest and they used to say that you want a president that you could have a beer with and today, Kamala Harris --

UNKNOWN: Whoa.

ALLISON: And in the spirit of bipartisanship, I will give you a beer, Scott.

JENNINGS: I love this so much.

ALLISON: She had her Miller High Life, the champagne of beer.

PHILLIP: I love a prop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: How come everybody has a beer but me?

ALLISON: Cheers. Sorry, Abby. You're still on the clock. We're all --

UNKNOWN: How do we know what's in the cup?

ALLISON: Right, we don't -- there's something stronger in the cup. But no, seriously. She had a beer.

SWISHER: Oh, wow.

ALLISON: She had a comical moment. I haven't had one of these since college.

UNKNOWN: Oh.

ALLISON: Goes down a little different these days.

SWISHER: No.

PHILLIP: It's not working for you, Kara?

SWISHER: Not working for me.

PHILLIP: Yes. I just had a flashback to high school.

PHILLIP: It was --

ALLISON: High school people.

JENNINGS: A beer summit tonight.

PHILLIP: A beer summit tonight. This whole show was very much a beer summit.

SWISHER: Oh, man.

JENNINGS: Cheers to America.

[23:00:00]

ALLISON: God bless America. And the linemen.

SWISHER: Here you go.

PHILLIP: Everyone, thank you very much. Thank you for watching "NewsNight" State of the Race. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.