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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Harris Hits Blue Wall and Trump in North Carolina With Two Weeks to Go; Race Tightens Between Trump and Harris in Final Two Weeks; Trump Tells Lewd Story About Arnold Palmer in Closing Pitch. "NewsNight" Panelists Discuss Trump Policies; Liz Cheney Campaigns For Harris. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 21, 2024 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, the meaning of the map. Kamala Harris tries to keep the blue wall blue, while Donald Trump turns his swing state focus to North Carolina.
Plus, locker room talk.
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: But when he took showers with the other pros, they said, oh my God, that's unbelievable.
PHILLIP: The former president obsesses over the size of something other than his crowds. Will the R-rated description repulse voters?
Also, Donald Trump dons an apron --
TRUMP: This is fun. I could do this all day. I wouldn't mind this job.
PHILLIP: -- at a McDonald's drive thru. But did the elaborate troll go over like a McPizza or the McHotdog?
And, it's okay.
FMR. REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): It's not sustainable for us as a country and it has to change.
PHILLIP: Republican Liz Cheney gives permission to conservative, anti-abortion voters to stray outside party lines and vote for the Democrat.
Live at the table, Nayyera Haq, Scott Jennings, Andrew Yang and Congressman Mike Waltz. With 14 days to go, Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening, everyone. I'm Abby Philip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about, oh, the places you'll go, or rather the places Donald Trump and Kamala Harris are going. Today, the map providing confirmation that both of these candidates see this election coming down to just a few states, and a few states only.
Harris hit Pennsylvania and Michigan and Wisconsin with Liz Cheney, the Republican who has endorsed her, and Trump held three separate events in North Carolina. Two of the counties, though, where the former president stopped today, and they went blue for Biden back in 2020.
So, our panel here in New York, what does this all say about what they're doing? It does seem like both candidates feel like they need to reach into the bucket of the opposing candidate and try to get some new voters.
ANDREW YANG, FORMER 2020 DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They have better numbers than we do, Abby. I remember when I was a candidate, we had all sorts of polling because we were testing numbers in the field and messages all the time. And the most valuable asset that each campaign has is the candidate. So, where they send the candidate is where they want to get votes in these final days.
NAYYERA HAQ, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE SENIOR DIRECTOR: This is the barnstorming season, right? Get out every vote. And when your polls are within the margin of error, three to four points, every vote counts, every constituency counts. And if you can get the opposing party's people to stay home, right, increase the negatives against Trump, which are pretty significant, that can also be part of a winning strategy.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: At this point, I think this is not as much about persuasion, although there's probably a little bit of that going on on the margins, as it is about trying to change the composition of the electorate. If you're Donald Trump, what do you need to do? You need to put people into the voting booth who don't normally show up, a lot of men, a lot of people who are low propensity or no propensity voters. So, that's what he's trying to do. And if you're Kamala Harris, you're on the other side of that algebra. You're trying to get a lot of maybe a low propensity women voters, if you believe in the gender gap theory of the election to do the same thing.
So, there's a lot of just turn out here, and not turn out of the regulars, turn out of the people who don't often vote in elections and who can get more of that, that'll help determine the election.
REP. MIKE WALTZ (R-FL): I think Scott's absolutely right in the sense that I was in North Carolina in two different locations campaigning for the president, the veterans for Trump, and then another one for one of our candidates, Laurie Buckhout, a retired colonel who's seeking to flip a seat.
And I and others are somewhat worried about Western North Carolina. It's been devastated. There's 800 roads that that still are not open. However, the head of the RNC, Michael Wgatley, is from North Carolina, Lara Trump's from North Carolina. They have they have a plan to get out these mobile voting sites, but people feel like they've been left behind by their state governor, in Governor Cooper, who didn't request federal resources until five days after the disaster. And you have the 82nd Airborne Division right there that could have gone to help.
So, you know, it's this real -- you know, we'll see how it goes in terms of people actually being able to get to the ballot. And then people that are so upset, I think they're going to walk out of the mountains to be able to vote for Trump.
[22:05:05]
PHILLIP: There's some information about the early voting picture in North Carolina. I want to show you some of these numbers, because, so far, we have more than 14 million people who have voted nationwide in this country.
CNN's Political Director David Chalian took a closer look at what's happening in this particular battleground state of North Carolina.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Abby, let's dig into one critical battleground state in the early vote, North Carolina, 16 electoral votes at stake. Donald Trump won it four years ago. It was his narrowest margin of victory of any state he won four years ago, and he needs it back in his column to get to 270 electoral votes.
How many people have voted thus far in the Tar Heel State? More than a million people have voted today, but that number is way down from what it was four years ago at this point, two weeks out. We've seen a drop, especially in mail vote, given that there's not a pandemic going on right now.
What do we know about this vote? Well, if we break it out by party 35 percent of the early vote cast by Democrats, 33 percent of the ballots have been cast by Republicans. 31 percent no party affiliation. How does that party breakdown compare to four years ago? Democrats had a much bigger slice of the pie, 44 percent at this point, 15 days out. Four years ago, Republicans were only at 24 percent of the ballots cast and no party affiliation at 31 percent.
This is a potential warning sign for Democrats, and we should note, we don't know how these people are voting. We just know the party I.D. But this is a potential warning sign, because if fewer Democrats are showing up to vote early, Democrats are going to need to up their game on the Election Day turnout, and that has been an area of advantage for Republicans. Abby?
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, it's such an interesting picture in North Carolina, the points that you made about the effect of the storm but also just the way that people are voting is changing, because it's not a pandemic anymore.
You're also seeing Harris in -- where she was in Wisconsin, trying to basically make a different play here, which is looking at the numbers for Trump. You've got a bunch of states, Georgia, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, where Nikki Haley voters came out in droves after she got out of the race, after all was said and done. And those numbers are way bigger in some cases than the margin by which Joe Biden won those states. So, it makes a lot of sense that she would be there.
HAQ: And we've seen that people in general are willing to cross party lines or their traditional voting patterns in these last two elections. And even today, the vast majority of voting public is still unaffiliated politically, right, that most people don't align with their specific party.
I would say Wisconsin's a particularly interesting example where you have a congressman, Mike Gallagher, who was a rising star in the party, a really talented head of the China committee, and effectively left Congress because he didn't think he could buck Trump and also keep his office. So, there's a lot of tension in that state.
JENNINGS: I have a couple comments on what we just saw in the data. Republicans are very enthusiastic about this early voting score. Now, look, it's a bit of a witch's cauldron. '24 is different than '20. However, you see better returns in North Carolina. Some of the stuff out of Florida and Miami is huge. Nevada, Republicans doing very well there. I mean, across the board, you see a lot of Republican enthusiasm for early and mail-in voting that you just have not seen in the past. That's number one.
Number two, on the Nikki Haley issue --
PHILLIP: It could also be because they decided to stop demonizing it.
HAQ: Well, yes. I mean, Trump is supporting what he did before.
JENNINGS: Whatever it is, it's a better picture that you're looking at today than we have been looking at in the early period.
On the Nikki Haley issue, I saw somebody today say that Harris was making a direct play for Nikki Haley voters with Liz Cheney. And, you know, interestingly, Donald Trump will be making a play for Nikki Haley voters with actual Nikki Haley, who has endorsed his campaign. And, apparently, they're talking about campaigning together.
So, I understand why Harris is going after those people. But, to me, I wouldn't want the people sort of around tangential Haley. I'd want the real thing.
PHILLIP: It is super interesting that she has been up until this now, like really not around.
YANG: Well, Trump had a chance to bury the hatchet with Nikki Haley, instead he just crowed about how much he beat her by. I think the fact that --
JENNINGS: Wait, she spoke at the convention.
YANG: No, but it is -- I mean, that was weeks ago. We were talking about -- PHILLIP: Last week, he was asked specifically about her.
(CROSSTALKS)
JENNINGS: There was more to that statement.
YANG: So, Kamala has already said that she is going to name a Republican to her cabinet. She's campaigning with Liz Cheney. I think that the big move she could make would be to name Mitt Romney as her secretary of state. He got 61 million votes in 2012. I'm sure a lot of the Nikki Haley voters are also former Romney voters.
PHILLIP: (INAUDIBLE) where this idea came from?
HAQ: I love --
YANG: So, this was originated by Jonathan Martin.
JENNINGS: Wait, wait, wait.--
HAQ: What is this whole Romney --
YANG: And he's right, because this is a huge opportunity for her to actually put a vision to this cabinet.
[22:10:00]
When she said that she was going to name a Republican to the cabinet, a bunch of independent friends of mine said, ooh, like, that's actually interesting. And if you actually had the former Republican nominee, who's no fan of Trump's say, yes, I will be Kamala's secretary of state, I think that would be a huge deal in the swing states that she's trying to win, that she's campaigning in right now.
HAQ: I'm not sure there's a Romney for Secretary of State constituency as much as there is for, you know, abortion rights, or is there air for, you know, certain economic policies, but I do understand the, you know, paying homage to how politics used to be, and it was traditional to have someone from the opposite party in one of the positions, not typically one of the most plumb positions in government.
But to that point, I don't understand why people who have been directly demonized and attacked by Donald Trump, like Nikki Haley, like Ted Cruz, will continue then, as they see him getting more power and decide that they want to line up with him and support him. He has held no loyalty to anybody up until this point.
PHILLIP: I mean, it's hard to understand, but the fact is that it happens all the time.
HAQ: Yes, all the time.
PHILLIP: They do it all the time. You were going to say?
WALTZ: Well, I was just going to, you know, Andrew mentioned casting a vision, and, well, I think I'd take any vision from the Harris campaign. I mean, she's -- the problem is the fundamental issue with her campaign is we haven't re-elected a vice president since 1988, H.W. Bush, and the reason we did it was we everybody wanted a third Reagan term. Nobody wants a second Biden term. It's been a disaster economically from a crime standpoint and certainly from a foreign policy standpoint.
But she can't quite bring herself to run away from that. She can't define what she's running towards, except for a bit of a word salad. And so she's defaulting to Trump.
YANG: Well, there are a lot of Americans --
(CROSSTALKS)
HAQ: But the crime data point --
JENNINGS: More want another Trump term than Biden. Look at the polling. He's got a -- that's why he got out.
YANG: It's one reason why Biden is not the nominee and I was definitely in there.
PHILLIP: Just real quick because Scott just mentioned the polling. We do have that polling. The Washington Post poll from this weekend looked at a bunch of issues, and here's where it stands. On a lot of these issues, to Scott's point, Trump is beating Harris on inflation, on the economy, even slightly by on threats to democracy. She wins on healthcare and abortion.
WALTZ: Can you say that last part again about threats to democracy? You seem to kind of want to get past that.
PHILLIP: No, no, no.
HAQ: I'll dig into it.
PHILLIP: 43-40 on threats to democracy and Trump is ahead.
HAQ: Yes, I think the democracy message you're now starting to see resonate as people start to unpack what it means, because before it did seem to be, all right, what is this thing about democracy, it's just what we do. We're starting to see that seniors, those who thought that many of the civil rights issues, Roe v. Wade, women's rights issues were already settled. Boomers and seniors thinking that, oh, wait a second. This has all been unraveled. This was the legacy, right, that idea of what lefty movements had done for this country. So, seniors are now actually turning towards Kamala Harris.
JENNINGS: I think this issue of whether we're going to do another Biden term is real. And if you look inside -- I think these numbers pretty much tell the story about why each candidate talks about the issues that they do. But the fact is Donald Trump's retrospective job approval is much higher than the job approval of the Biden-Harris administration. There's a reason for that, because people felt more economically secure. They felt like we had less war and strife going on around the world. And under Biden-Harris, they just don't feel that they have anxiety about the state of their own life under the current administration.
And so if people are looking at real time comparisons between two presidents, two presidencies, which they are, and that's how the election is decided, it's pretty clear that's where Trump's going to score.
YANG: But it's one reason why whichever candidate feels like the change candidate, I think, has an advantage. And even though Kamala is the sitting vice president, she embodies change much more than Donald Trump to a lot of Americans.
PHILLIP: She is competitive on that change question. We'll see how determinative that is.
Everyone stick around. Coming up next for us, Donald Trump is stepping up his shock jock rhetoric with just two weeks to go in this election, including with a crude story about Arnold Palmer. The golfer's daughter is going to join us to respond to that.
Plus, there's Tim Walz saying that Donald Trump's McDonald's stunt was disrespecting to workers. But did it accidentally reveal a major policy position for Donald Trump?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: We all know size matters to Donald Trump. But instead of talking about his crowds this weekend, he was talking about what golf legend Arnold Palmer was carrying and not in his golf bag.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Arnold Palmer was all man. And I say that in all due respect to women, and I love women.
And this man was strong and tough. And I refuse to say it, but when he took showers with the other pros, they came out of there, they said, oh my God, that's unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Joining me now is Arnold Palmer's daughter, Peg Palmer Wears. Peg, when you hear that, what goes through your mind?
PEG PALMER WEARS, DAUGHTER OF GOLFER ARNOLD PALMER: It is not a dignified way to talk about my father, particularly in his hometown at an airport named in his honor. And I can't do anything about what people say or jokes that people have made over the years, you know, and they can say it's all in good fun.
[22:20:00]
But to have that be something that in 2024 is, you know, out there in the air about who my father was is a little hard to be comfortable with. He changed the face of golf. He contributed everything he had in his life to a meaningful existence, to making golf an important sport, to making contact with people to grow the game. So, this feels really like a disconnect with who he was in so many ways.
PHILLIP: And it's coming from. a former president of the United States, someone who is running to be president again. Has anyone reached out to you, Donald Trump or his campaign, after he made those vulgar remarks about your father?
WEARS: They probably have a long line of people to reach out to because it seems to be something he does. Again, he can say it's locker room talk. It's something that seems to -- he seems to think is acceptable. In my father's world, it wouldn't be acceptable.
PHILLIP: Peg Palmer Wears, from the battleground state of North Carolina, we appreciate you taking some time to talk to us tonight. Thank you so much.
WEARS: Thank you so much for having me.
PHILLIP: All right, we're back at the table. Who wants to take the Trump --
HAQ: I want nothing to do with --
JENNINGS: You know what, first of all, Arnold Palmer's daughter seems like a lovely person.
PHILLIP: He is very lovely.
JENNINGS: And very nice. I have to tell you though, as someone who's often the target of this kind of vicious speculation, I was outraged. Come on, it's a joke. It's a total joke.
And let me just ask you one question. If you're so offended by this, where was the offense at the Democrat convention, when former President Barack Obama himself at the podium made his own junk joke at the podium? I didn't hear anybody offended about that, and now we're offended about this? Come on.
HAQ: And actually the thing is I don't think people are even offended. They're just like, oh there goes Donald again. We thought maybe he could focus on policy, complete a speech.
JENNINGS: It's a joke.
HAQ: But this is -- it's like it goes back to the same shtick. And what was funny about the Obama joke, A, it was actually funny, and, B --
JENNINGS: But it's okay when he does it Yes, it's funny when he does it. HAQ: It was unusual that he did it. This is par for the course for Donald Trump.
WALTZ: Is that a golf pun?
HAQ: Thank you. I see, I'm so glad you picked up on that.
The fact that we are, what, two weeks out before an election, every vote counts, people talk about the economy, all these issues, and you have all of these Republican strategists saying, Donald, please just stay on message, actually just complete a speech, and this is how he chooses to spend his time.
It's not changing any voters, right? People will find the joke funny or not.
WALTZ: No, I think you're watching a clip. You're watching a ten- second clip of what was an hour and a half speech where he was talking about the economy. He was talking about the world being on fire. He was talking about Iran.
HAQ: He also decided to go on his rant about insulting Kamala Harris' intelligence. And, again, I'm not sure that when you're talking about the swath of women voters who are still, in theory, up for grabs, that continuing to call a woman stupid, calling her names is an effective way to get that vote.
WALTZ: Okay. I mean --
PHILLIP: Also, just for the record, what Obama said, which had actually, he never said anything.
JENNINGS: He literally did the hands.
PHILLIP: But he didn't use any words.
JENNINGS: He said, we know --
PHILLIP: Donald Trump was talking about Arnold Palmer naked in a shower. And --
WALTZ: I don't think he said, to make it easy, when he gets out of the shower, everybody was saying, oh man.
HAQ: That's right, because you're fully clothed coming out of the shower. That's right.
WALTZ: Look, at the end of the day, I don't think anybody, except for this show --
PHILLIP: It's very clear that's what he was talking about.
WALTZ: I don't think anybody of this show is really that concerned about it. No one back in Florida is talking about it. And I got to tell you, when we're on the verge of a major war in the Middle East, again, when we had a leak come out of this administration, that essentially threw Israel under the bus, clearly in favor of Iran, I agree with you. I actually agree with you. There's a lot of other things we could be talking about.
YANG: This joke didn't change a single vote. I mean, you know, like his people liked it. People that don't like him didn't like it. You know, to me, there are more important things that he could be talking about that we should be talking about.
PHILLIP: Let me play what, what Vice President Harris said about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: In many, many ways, Donald Trump is an unserious man, but the consequences of him being president of the United States are brutally serious. There are things that he says that will be the subject of skits and laughter and jokes.
[22:25:04]
But words have meaning coming from someone who aspires to stand behind the seal of the president of the United States. These are the things that are at stake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JENNINGS: Abby, the scolding from Kamala Harris who's upset because her opponent has a sense of humor, this is what we're in for for the next four years? I agree with her, by the way, words do have meaning, everybody's words, except for hers, because what she said when she ran for president before apparently have no meaning based on the kind of campaign she's running now.
If you can't take a joke, make a joke, laugh a little on the campaign trail, I don't think the American people are in for scolding, right now.
PHILLIP: But I do think that the through line of a lot of the conversations that we have are about how does this actually land on the ears of women. And I've talked to a lot of women voters who do not like, that they feel like when Donald Trump is on T.V., they cannot turn up the volume when their kids are around. Like that's -- I mean, maybe that doesn't change a vote, but there are a lot of people in this country who feel that way.
HAQ: Well, and it's also to what Scott was saying --
WALTZ: I think it may not feel that way for a second or they may feel that way, but you know what they do right after that? They go to the gas station. They go to the grocery store. They feel incredibly insecure with the, which, I think, we could all agree now crime is rising now that the FBI has, you know, kind of redone the statistics with the insecurity that we feel around the world. And, once again, we're talking about what President Trump said, but what people are feeling right now is what he did and then what hasn't been done since then. HAQ: Yes, let's talk about how women feel insecure and how women feel in this moment, right? Can't go to the hospital and expect that my healthcare needs or reproductive needs will be met in a medical way. They'll have to be dealt with the legal way.
WALTZ: And number one purchaser of guns are women.
HAQ: Number two --
WALTZ: Because they feel insecure.
HAQ: And who are they feeling threatened by?
WALTZ: Criminals that are being let out of jail.
HAQ: This idea that it's a joke, if you can't take a joke, you should just be okay with it if you can't take a joke, right? So many challenges that women have in the workplace, in social settings, are dismissed as, you can't take a joke.
The entire point of the 1960s movement forward was to have women seen as equal, to be able to compete on an equal playing field, and to diminish our safety and security, or our opinions about whether or not we think something is appropriate for our children as a joke, I think it's part of the demeaning aspect of Donald Trump.
JENNINGS: What did he say about women? He talked about Arnold Palmer. What did he say about women?
HAQ: In that same speech, he insulted, continued to insult Kamala Harris and Liz Cheney for being -- for their intelligence, they're stupid. J.D. Vance went on a rant that it is a consistent theme for these two men that when women in opposition, the thing that they come up with is insulting them for their intelligence. That's it, nothing else on policy.
JENNINGS: So, you're connecting that to the Arnold Palmer side. I don't know that anyone else in America is connected at all.
HAQ: No, I'm connecting it, it's not to your, in two minutes ago saying, you should just be able to take a joke. You can't take a joke. Oh, that's your problem.
JENNINGS: I didn't say it was your problem.
HAQ: I said, it's a problem that if somebody can't take a joke and wants to turn this into the biggest issue in the election, that's a political problem.
PHILLIP: I don't think anybody's turning this into the biggest issue in the election. It is, though, emblematic of who Donald Trump is. And to your point, nothing new here, he's been telling all kinds of jokes on the campaign trail for years now.
Everyone hang tight. Coming up next, Donald Trump may be praising McDonald's workers after his stunt, but hear why his policies as president made it tougher for them. A special guest is going to join us in our fifth seat. That's next.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: A Big Mac display that will connect with voters or a supersized stunt. Donald Trump took a Sunday detour to a Pennsylvania McDonald's and he tied an apron up to make the point about his rival --actually, someone else tied the apron for him, to be clear, and whether her resume included actually working for the Golden Arches.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (R): I love McDonald's. I love jobs. I like to see good jobs. And I think it's inappropriate when somebody puts down all over the place that she worked at McDonald's. She specifically worked at the French fry -- where they make the French fries, and she talked about the heat. It was so tough. She never worked at McDonald's. In other words, she's lying Kamala.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Okay. CNN Economics commentator Catherine Rampbell is going to join us in our fifth seat. She is a "Washington Post" opinion columnist. Catherine, we have some actual economics to talk to you about. But first, that -- this McDonald's thing has really taken on a life of its own and I'm not sure anybody really cares except Donald Trump about this.
REP. MIKE WALTZ (R) TRUMP SURROGATE: Well, it's about owning the news cycle. There's 15 left to go and he certainly owned the last one and we're still talking about it now. What I -- look, it came across so authentically because he so authentically loves the food. And anytime you're around him, you get a choice of Quarter Pounders or Big Macs or a double cheeseburger, like literally every day.
NAYYERA HAQ, FORMER OBAMA STATE DEPARTMENT SENIOR ADVISER: You can definitely see it from two totally different universes because there's the one that you're talking about and the one, the other one in which it's like, oh, once again, Donald Trump pretends to have a job that he, you know, he doesn't have, you know, has to fake the whole place because he can't actually walk in and work or pretend that he knows what he's doing.
WALTZ: He was almost assassinated. You've got to secure it. Okay.
HAQ: But there -- there's so, it's the idea of what Donald Trump says and projects versus what he actually knows how to do.
[22:35:03]
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Wait, I'm sorry.
HAQ: It's a fascinating -- it's a fascinating phrase that I've been trying to do.
JENNINGS: Hold on. I just -- I'm learning for the first time. Are you saying Donald Trump didn't actually work at a McDonald's?
CATHERINE RAMPBELL, CNN ECONOMICS COMMENTATOR: Shocking, right?
JENNINGS: I'm learning this for the first time. I can't believe the democratic reaction to this today. He has caused them to lose their minds.
WALTZ: All they're talking about.
RAMPBELL: I think this is the most normal thing Donald Trump has done in months. You know, he didn't talk about a famous golfer's junk. He didn't say that Ukraine should surrender to Russia. He didn't give a tax cut, promised a tax cut to anyone who like walked by his peripheral vision. He went and he did a political stunt which is a tried and true political stunt. Kamala Harris has, in fact, done versions.
WALTZ: Buying Doritos and a --
RAMPBELL: No, Kamala Harris worked with a home health aide. You know, they all do these kind of like work a day.
HAQ: The diner -- the diner events.
RAMPBELL: Yes, this is a very common thing, and I think really not that remarkable.
PHILLIP: When it comes to the economics of it --
RAMPBELL: Yes.
PHILLIP: Okay, you're talking about McDonald's workers, most of them probably minimum wage or close to it. What does Donald Trump mean for those people?
RAMPBELL: Yes, see, I think this is much more significant than whether he put on the apron and whether he likes French fries and all of that, which is his actual record. And his record is not great for his now colleagues from McDonald's, including the fact that when he was president, he made it harder to go after McDonald's for wage theft. He opposed raising the minimum wage, continues to oppose raising the minimum wage. Actually, we didn't show the clip.
PHILLIP: Yes, we can play it. We got the clip.
RAMPBELL: Sure.
PHILLIP: Here's what he said when he was asked, oh, should you raise the minimum wage for these fine people at McDonald's?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Should minimum wage be raised? TRUMP: Well, I think this, I think these people work hard, they're great, and I just saw something, a process, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful thing to see. These are great franchises.
RAMPBELL: Yes.
PHILLIP: That's what you call the business a dodge.
RAMPBELL: Yes.
PHILLIP: He did not answer the question.
RAMPBELL: In other contexts, he has opposed it. He has likewise cut funding for OSHA, which is the federal agency that inspects workplaces like McDonald's for a firm.
WALTZ: Dramatically over-regulates many businesses and adds those regulatory costs.
RAMPBELL: I mean, if you work at McDonald's.
WALTZ: That get passed on in terms of an inflationary standpoint, so--
RAMPBELL: Yes, I don't think that's true.
WALTZ: No, it is true.
UNKNOWN: Or -- or --
WALTZ: It's not. It is. If you want to talk regulation versus deregulation and the fact that he deregulated 22 regulations for every one that have since been added back.
RAMPBELL: That's not actually true.
WALTZ: It is a key driver of inflation.
RAMPBELL: That's not actually true.
WALTZ: It absolutely is. It's these small businesses that have to hire an army of lawyers and accountants to then provide the mountain of paperwork to regulatory agencies that absolutely is true.
RAMPBELL: Look, I'm in favor of simplifying the regulatory system. That's mostly at the state and local level, not at the federal level. And besides if you look at --
WALTZ: Okay.
RAMPBELL: -- Donald Trump's regulatory record, there was a big paper, a big analysis that came out, I want to say in 2020 or 2021.
WALTZ: Okay--
RAMPBELL: It's not actually true that he decreased regulations. WALTZ: -- but if we want to talk about federal regulations at the EPA, at OSHA, the Department of Labor --
HAQ: What she is talking about is worker safety.
RAMPBELL: Worker safety is important.
HAQ: The idea of worker safety -- the idea of, you know, whether or not children of a certain age should be able to work in factories, right?
RAMPBELL: Or at McDonald's.
HAQ: Yes.
PHILLIP: Before you jump in, before you jump in, I want to play something else because the other thing about this is like what is Donald Trump actually saying on the campaign trail? Here is a taste of all the things that he has promised workers and then we'll talk about it on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: By contrast, I will massively cut taxes for workers and small businesses, and very importantly, there will be no tax on tips. No tax on overtime. And very important for your seniors, no tax on Social Security benefits for our seniors. I will make interest on car loans fully tax deductible because affording a car is essential to restoring the American dream.
You know, in the old days, when we were smart, when we were a smart country, in the 1890s and all, this is when the country was relatively the richest it ever was. It had all tariffs. It didn't have an income tax.
UNKNOWN: Yes, Sir.
TRUMP: Okay? Now, we have income taxes and we have people that are dying, they're paying tax and they don't have the money to pay the tax. No, there is a way. I mean, if we -- if what I'm planning comes out, it's a great question by the way.
UNKNOWN: Everyone could have taken their message.
TRUMP: You're a pretty sophisticated cat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, make it make sense to me, Scott, because I'm looking at no taxes on tips, no taxes on overtime, no taxes on Social Security, no taxes on federal income.
JENNINGS: Abby, Abby. I'm already voting for Trump. You don't have to keep going.
PHILLIP: Yes, but Scott -- JENNINGS: I mean, I'm already there. I'm already voting for him.
PHILLIP: Before Trump, I assume you were a fiscal conservative. Explain to me how does --
JENNINGS: I'm a low-tax conservative, hey.
PHILLIP: How does the balance sheet work?
JENNINGS: I'm a low-tax conservative. like it when Donald Trump cuts taxes because that's what Republican tradition leaves you.
PHILLIP: Yes, so how are you going to pay for it?
[22:40:00]
JENNINGS: How are we going to pay for it?
PHILLIP: Yes.
JENNINGS: I guess we're going to cut spending and have a smaller government which is also just fine with me.
RAMPBELL: You know that under Donald Trump--
JENNINGS: We had COVID, don't start.
RAMPBELL: No, before, before COVID, he actually signed trillions of dollars of new spending into law. Before COVID, new spending and new tax cuts.
JENNINGS: Look.
RAMPBELL: I mean, the deficit widened well before COVID.
PHILLIP: Look, I was also curious, Congressman. She also mentioned --
HAQ: You're talking about facts actually matter in cash.
PHILLIP: I was curious, okay? Is any of this real? You go on Trump's website.
UNKNOWN: No.
PHILLIP: It's not there. The vast majority of this, I think the only one that's on there is no tax on tips. Otherwise, it's not there. So, is he deceiving voters and just telling them what they want to hear, what sounds good on the campaign trail?
WALTZ: There's two ways to address the deficit. There is cutting spending and there is enhancing growth. And these will clearly enhance growth --
RAMPBELL: It will not enhance growth.
WALTZ: -- including cutting regulations. HAQ: But to your question--
RAMPBELL: That's not sufficiently adding to the cost.
WALTZ: And if you're driving down the deficit of the country --
ANDREW YANG (D) FORMER 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The fact is politicians regularly say things on the stump that may or may not become law. I will say that the no tax on tips, Kamala did follow suit because that was a political winner particularly in Nevada.
RAMPBELL: It was a bad idea when she proposed it, too.
YANG: But Americans know that in a 50-50 essentially deadlocked Congress, a lot of these things may not see the light of day. So, each candidate is kind of painting a picture. And then most voters are like, hey, they might get a piece of that picture passed into law. A small piece at this point because we're going to have an entirely divide government.
RAMPBELL: I mean, there is going to be a large portion of the tax -- a large portion of the tax code is going to expire next year. And there will be an enormous food fight over the tax code next year. So, I don't know that I would take all of these promises seriously, obviously. I agree with you on that. But I do think it is reasonable to look at what they are prioritizing.
PHILLIP: Actually, hold on. We actually have a sitting congressman at the table. Congressman.
WALTZ: Sure.
PHILLIP: Are you going to vote for no tax on overtime, no tax on Social Security, and a zeroed out federal income tax? Are you voting for that?
WALTZ: I'll vote for the -- for the tax cuts. And to your point --
PHILLIP: Which -- we're going to be specific here.
WALTZ: And I'll vote for the tax cuts.
PHILLIP: And we're going to be -- let's be specific here because --
WALTZ: I'm not going to get hypotheticals in legislation, but I'll certainly vote for the tax cuts.
PHILLIP: You are a Republican in Congress.
WALTZ: But let me tell, but let me answer your question because you're right. The tax cut jobs ad is on the table. All of it's on the table. And you know what? The Harris campaign has proposed doubling capital gains, which will devastate entrepreneurship --
PHILLIP: I didn't even --
WALTZ: -- which will devastate entrepreneurship --
PHILLIP: didn't even get to the part where Trump is talking about lowering corporate taxes.
WALTZ: -- and small businesses and you know what it'll do to the V.C. and the private equity ecosystem here.
HAQ: They are the ones I want to help these days. That's true, the V.Cs and the private equity guys are the ones who need America's and the government's help right now. I keep forgetting that they're struggling. They're really struggling today. Yes.
JENNINGS: They will if Tim Walz becomes Vice President who purports not even to know what they do. Can I just --
WALZ: Who funds all of the innovation in this country?
JENNINGS: Just look at my cross and says McDonald's thing is this whole minimum wage deal. You know the average wage in McDonald's is already between like 14 and 17 bucks an hour. They don't make minimum wage. They already make, beyond that, everybody's been carping on Trump for the minimum wage thing. So --
RAMPBELL: Well, it hasn't been an increase since 2009. So --
JENNINGS: I know. And --
RAMPBELL: Of course, it's not going to be as binding on people now.
JENNINGS: But this corporation is already paying people beyond that, according to the internet that I was able to research while we were sitting here. So, I think it's an unfair attack on Trump, this minimum wage worker issue.
RAMPBELL: McDonald's is not the only employer in America. You know that, right? Like there are lots of other service jobs.
JENNINGS: Yes, I didn't -- I'm sorry, am I arguing that they are?
PHILLIP: But shouldn't he be able to answer the question?
JENNINGS: You sat here and attacked him for attacking minimum wage workers because he went to McDonald's. And I just wanted to point out how wrong you were.
PHILLIP: She did not do that.
RAMPBELL: I didn't attack him for going to McDonald's. I attacked him for his actual record, which is bad for the workers of McDonald's.
JENNINGS: The reason you're sitting here is because he went to McDonald's.
RAMPBELL: The reason I'm sitting here is because I write on economic policy and I know something about the economic policies we're discussing. PHILLIP: I guess this is where I need to be clear. She's sitting here because she actually knows things about economic policy.
JENNINGS: But did you not raise the minimum wage?
PHILLIP: No, no, no. We're talking about whether Donald Trump -- we're talking about what is Donald Trump's position on some key issues, right? If Donald Trump opposes the minimum wage, don't you think he owes an answer to that question, to the voters?
JENNINGS: On the minimum wage?
PHILLIP: On that, plus all the other questions that we've raised about how he's paying for all these things?
JENNINGS: Look, I think he should go out and advocate for policies that he thinks will, A, help workers, B, stimulate economic growth, and C, get us out of the economic anxiety that we have been suffering under Biden-Harris. And that's what I would expect any presidential candidate to do.
Joe Biden and Kamala Harris made promises to people four years ago. Some of it came true, some of it didn't. But that's what candidates do. They have aspirations and they have goals.
PHILLIP: Yes.
JENINGS: Now, whether the Congress will do it, I don't know. But that's his job.
PHILLIP: It's also within the parameters of what candidates are supposed to do that when they're asked questions about how is this supposed to work? Shouldn't they be able to answer that? I mean, that's how this works, too.
WALZ: I would offer Harris to answer that.
HAQ: Part of what this points out is how much Donald Trump will cater to who's in front of him. And I think it is very much from a desire of, I want you person in front of me to like me.
[22:45:00]
The problem is, he'll do that with Vladimir Putin sitting there, too. I really want you to like me right now, so let me give you whatever you want, including the country of Ukraine.
JENNINGS: He's trying to get votes.
PHILLIP: All right, guys, everyone hang on, hang on. Coming up next, Congresswoman Liz Cheney is telling her fellow abortion rights opponents that it's okay to vote for Vice President Kamala Harris. We're going to discuss that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:49:45]
PHILLIP: Tonight, country before party, even on the issue of abortion, that is the message from Liz Cheney to conservative voters who may be on the fence about voting for Kamala Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ CHENEY (R) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: I think there are many of us around the country who have been pro-life, but who have watched what's going on in our states since the Dobbs decision, and have watched state legislatures put in place laws that are resulting in women not getting the care they need.
[22:50:20]
That's not sustainable for us as a country, and it has to change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Again, here in the upside down, Liz Cheney making the case for Kamala Harris, making the case actually--
WALZ: Look, I was going to say--
PHILLIP: The women first but go ahead.
WALZ: I'm sorry, well, sorry, Scott pointed at me.
RAMPBELL: This is a nice microcosm of this whole policy.
PHILLIP: Go ahead, Congressman, tell us what you were going to say.
WALZ: Oh, okay, well, I was just going to point out having served with Liz Cheney in Congress, regardless man, woman, or indifferent, she signed the amicus brief in advocating for Dobbs. The decision she now apparently thinks went too far. She has a lifetime A grade from Susan B. Anthony, a lifetime voting record.
PHILLIP: And Kamala Harris has an F, so they could not --
WALZ: A perfect voting record by Susan B. Anthony, the premier and pre-eminent pro-life organization in the country. But I guess now those principles went somewhere. And I think regardless of my gender, I can just point that out if that's all right.
RAMPBELL: I agree. I would say that the fact that even someone with an A rating from the Susan B. Anthony Pro-Life America organization --
WALZ: Perfect.
RAMPBELL: Perfect. That even she finds some of these state laws objectionable is pretty telling in that you cannot help but be moved by stories of women.
WALZ: The decision she signed an amicus brief for to return it to the states. RAMPBELL: Again, we're talking about what states have done. And there
are women who are bleeding out in hospital lobbies because they can't get care. They are going into sepsis before they can get treatment. IVF is still in legal jeopardy, including in Alabama, where the state legislature claims that they fix the issue. Fertility clinics are still closing.
There are plenty of -- plenty of policies that even if you are very pro-life, you can find extremely objectionable because these states haven't interpreted their ability to curb women's access to care, even for wanted pregnancies.
HAQ: This is the challenge that we see, right, with the removal of federal protections and essentially what happens at different state levels we have seen throughout the course of American history where federal government has been necessary to establish a basic sense of rights for multiple people across multiple state lines, and that's what has been undone.
We have had people at this table in this conversation, not today, who have said they've regretted what they've done at the state level because they didn't understand the implications of the medical decisions they were making as politicians.
It was not that long ago where the libertarian or conservative view was "keep government out of my business". And I would say it would be welcomed by many people from multiple political persuasions to keep government out of our bodies once again.
JENNINGS: I find Cheney's statements to be shocking, A, because of the amicus brief, B, she supported Donald Trump for president, a Republican, knowing full well the kinds of judges that he intended to appoint to the Supreme Court and the federal judiciary. And so, Donald Trump is for her to now complain about something that she once strongly supported, sending this back to the political process, either Congress or the states, it is kind of a shocking thing.
Also, Donald Trump's not running for state representative in any particular state. He is running for president, and he's made his position on this very clear. He's got a very moderate, center-right, long-standing Republican position that goes back to Reagan. He's pro- life. He believes in some moderate limits on weeks. He believes in the three exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother. He has been a champion, a champion for IVF.
RAMPBELL: He has not. I'm sorry.
JENNINGS: He has absolutely has.
RAMPBELL: I'm sorry, I need to interrupt. He absolutely has.
JENNINGS: You don't need to interrupt because you're wrong. He has been a champion in the party for speaking for IVF.
RAMPBELL: I wrote about this like two weeks ago. You can look at his -- JENNINGS: Okay, welI, I listen to what he says all the time.
RAMPBELL: I look at his record.
JENNINGS: He has read his statement in the middle.
HAQ: Do you believe him when he says he's the father of IVF?
JENNINGS: Yes, I do.
HAQ: When he says he's the father of IVF--
RAMPBELL: Okay, okay.
PHILLIP: If you're having a back and forth --
RAMPBELL: -- when he says he's the father of IVF.
RAMPBELL: Okay, okay. Look at his actual record. For example, his recent statement saying, oh, we're going to make insurers cover IVF. You know that he led the initiative to repeal Obamacare which got rid of all essential health benefits, all requirements for insurers to cover any sort of health care, that would include IVF.
PHILLIP: All right.
RAMPBELL: Beyond that, there was a law, a bill rather, that Democrats proposed to protect IVF.
JENNINGS: A sham vote, by the way.
PHILLIP: We are at the end of the show, guys. We got to go, I'm sorry to say. Before we go,
Congressman Walz does have a new book out. It's out tomorrow. It's called "Hard Truths: Think and Lead Like A Green Beret".
[22:55:01]
Congratulations to you, Congressman Waltz. Everyone else, thank you very much for joining me. Coming up next, what Vice President Harris thinks about edibles. We'll have that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:59:50]
Before we go, Kamala Harris has asked about stress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA SHRIVER, FORMER FIRST LADY OF CALIFORNIA: You know, everybody I talk to says, you know, I have to turn off the news.
[23:00:00] I can't read anything. I'm meditating. I'm doing yoga. I'm doing --I'm so anxious. I just don't even know I'm eating gummies. All kinds of things, you know. What are you doing? What are you doing?
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CURRENT PRESIDENTIAL NOMINIEE (D): Not eating gummies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: No gummies for her, but the vice president said that instead she works out and talks to her family every day, which I guess we all could use a little bit of. Thank you for watching "NewsNight State of the Race". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
