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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Fires Chairman Of The Joint Chiefs Of Staff; Judge Blocks Trump's Order Targeting DEI Programs; Supreme Court Says, Watchdog Fired By Trump Can Stay on Job; Maine Governor Takes A Stand Against Trump's Policy On Transgender Athletes; Actor George Clooney Explains Why Donald Trump Won And Why Joe Biden Clung To Hope That He Could Win. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired February 21, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, were Donald Trump's eyes bigger than America's appetite for change? Polls warned the president that voters think he's doing much too much as the courts tell Trump no.
Plus, snafu, the president fires the chairman of the Joint Chiefs months after his Pentagon chief --
PETE HEGSETH, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Yes, you got to fire the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.
PHILLIP: -- said to do just that.
Also, forget going high.
REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): The fact that I'm rooting for Canada and I'm rooting for Mexico a lot is really wild.
PHILLIP: Democrats focus on cliques and clout and owning the conservatives.
And, oh brother, really? George Clooney gives an interview that has Democrats' ears burning after reading, as the A-lister directs the media to give themselves a close up.
Live at the table, Jemele Hill, Chuck Rocha, Melik Abdul, Katie Frost, and Joanna Coles.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Philip in New York. Let's get right to the breaking news tonight. Donald Trump escalates his purge. The president and his defense secretary have fired the nation's top general, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The president thanked C.Q. Brown for his service, but, remember, Pete Hegseth said this about Brown just three months ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: Well, first of all, you got to fire -- you know, you got to fire the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and you got to fire this -- I mean, obviously, you're going to bring in a new secretary of defense, but any general that was involved, general, admiral, whatever that was involved in any of the DEI woke shit, it's got to go. Either you're in for warfighting, and that's it, that's the only litmus test we care about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: One prominent retired four star general tells CNN that the firing is, quote, sadly political and tragic for our nation. Now, as for C.Q. Brown's replacement, that person is John Dan Razin Caine. He's a retired lieutenant Air Force general who Trump called instrumental in annihilating ISIS.
Joining us in our fifth seat at the table is Tanya Domi, a former U.S. Army captain and Columbia University adjunct professor. Tanya, thanks for joining us.
What is your reaction to this news tonight?
TANYA DOMI, FORMER U.S. ARMY CAPTAIN: Well, my reaction is that the Trump Pentagon does not welcome black people. They're discouraging black people from joining. There's no home for women. We know also the CNO of the Navy, the chief naval operations officer was a woman, was also fired tonight. The commander of the -- sorry, of --
PHILLIP: The Air Force vice chief -- we actually have the list up there. The Air Force vice chief was fired. The lieutenant general was also fired. And then three JAGs were also fired.
DOMI: Yes. So, there was a purge of the lawyers, the senior lawyers. And the message there is that there's no rule of law left. It's a lawless purge. They removed the lawyers, and you have lawyers at every level of command, and it's a terrible message to send out tonight. And also it's -- in the military, what we know is that we come from all different walks of life, we're different races, we have different economic backgrounds, we're different genders, and that there's no place for disrespect or a lack of respect for the dignity of soldiers.
PHILLIP: One of the things to remember about C.Q. Brown, he was put in his previous position by Donald Trump and Trump praised him when he did that. He actually was on duty today, as he always is. He was down at the border with our troops down there when this firing order came down.
How can we look at this and not see this as just simply Pete Hegseth has decided that he is a symbol of DEI, and that's why he was fired?
KATIE FROST, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I don't want to say he's a symbol of DEI. I mean, this is maybe surprising? No. We've been seeing this, you know, Secretary Hegseth was talking about how he needed to go. [22:05:02]
But look at what Hegseth is talking about as the Pentagon as a whole. He is looking to completely restructure the approach that the previous administration has.
PHILLIP: But that's not why Hegseth said he should be fired. He said he should be fired because he was, in his words, involved in DEI.
C.Q. Brown, as far as we know, there's been no indication that he's been fired for cause, that he did anything wrong, that even that he has some philosophical approach to warfighting that is different from the president's.
FROST: I mean, you serve at the pleasure of the president, though. That is the nature of these roles. And so the president is clearly looking to go in a different direction at the Pentagon, so he's going to put a new team in place to do that.
JEMELE HILL, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Well, I thought you were going to play that other clip in that -- I think that same podcast where Pete Hegseth basically questioned C.Q.'s qualifications because he was black, and he said that in that podcast, that -- and this is in the Associated Press story, his remarks saying, I don't know if he's qualified. Maybe he is, maybe isn't, because he was black.
So, it's hard for anyone to read this other than the fact, as you pointed out, that this is a very directed purge that has nothing to do with philosophy, that has everything to do with the faces of the military, which Pete Hegseth has said several times that he doesn't respect women soldiers and he doesn't respect people of color serving in these positions.
And so by putting this out there, if you're in the military and you're a person of color or even if you're just a person of color in this country, how are you supposed to feel seeing this?
PHILLIP: Which is going to be an issue. I mean, there have only been two African-Americans who've served as chairman of the Joint Chiefs. C.Q. Brown was the second, Colin Powell was the first, and he's also now no longer the highest ranking black officer in the military.
CHUCK ROCHA, CO-HOST, THE LATINO VOTE PODCAST: We've been hearing a lot of about military readiness. A lot of these men and women who got their jobs lost today have spent their whole life dedicated to defending the flag and defending this country, no matter the color of their skin, just like you said. And I think that that's what we have to think about, military readiness, because that's what Republicans have been using to justify some of the DE and I stuff that's been going on within the military and all branches of the government now that Trump's in office.
But these are real folks with real experience. You know, I've worked with groups like vote vets around the country and worked with folks who have I admire every day because of the sacrifices they make for our country and thinking about these folks that's done this under this auspice. And the voter out there and in the focus groups the last election we were in, this is not -- sure, everybody voted for change in some form or fashion, but I don't think this is the change they voted for and I think there's going to be repercussions for this kind of anxiety now that we're going to have in a tenuous world.
PHILLIP: Before you jump in, I want to ask you about something you raised, too, the JAG situation.
DOMI: Yes.
PHILLIP: These are the military lawyers.
DOMI: That's right.
PHILLIP: Three of the highest ranking military lawyers were -- they're saying they're accepting nominations. Presumptively, they're being fired. This is also Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who in his confirmation hearing, he was questioned about his use of the term, JAG off, and he suggested that JAGs, rather than enforcing the law, they are trying to get promotions and that they don't have the best interest of rank and file soldiers.
DOMI: Well, I deeply disagree with that conclusion.
PHILLIP: And we can't forget also Pete Hegseth advocated to Trump for pardoning people who were accused of war crimes.
DOMI: Yes, he did.
PHILLIP: So, put that all together.
DOMI: Yes. I mean, the fact is he convinced Trump to issue pardons to three officers who were engaged in war crimes, and people witnessed that. And when you don't take accountability, that actually diminishes unit cohesion. Because when people are treated differently and it looks unfair, then that is a real demoralizing occurrence.
And I would add that when you take out the legal, the top legal officers, you're talking about the White House sees itself as the law and order over the armed forces, but actually you need lawyers at every level of command.
And I would add that this is a readiness issue because what's happening now is that the Trump White House is in playing a subtraction game. And we have -- the military has not been able to achieve its recruiting goals and they certainly aren't going to be able to do that with white men only. This is a very diverse union. It's a unit. And it's probably the best example of America at its best. It's really a travesty.
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, the idea that they want to start to now influence how the law is effectively enforced within the military. Why would they do that?
MELIK ABDUL, GOP POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Oh, there are a number of things that the Trump administration do that is cause for concern for a number of people.
[22:10:02]
But in this case, I don't have a problem with the dismissals and I think that we do Brown a disservice by assuming that he's being let go because he's black, because then that means that he was chosen because he was black. And I don't think that he was even --
PHILLIP: Why would that mean that? He's a four star general. He was picked by Trump, actually.
ABDUL: But I'm saying the conversation that we're literally having around the table is that the reason he was let go is because of his race.
PHILLIP: Well, the only reason we're saying that is because Pete Hegseth said he should go because --
ABDUL: He is going to have to -- yes, he's going to -- and the Trump administration, because they've kind of jumped into these DEI things, a lot of things that they've said, they're going to have to answer for. But I think we should put that aside from why he was let go. Obviously, there were conversations for months now about the fact that C.Q. Brown would be leaving. Well, it's happened now and I think, again, do him and all of women, men, people of color, the military disservice to say that if Donald Trump takes an action, then the reason he's taking that action is because of race. I don't think that that's admirable (ph).
PHILLIP: I don't think we're responsible for making that connection. Pete Hegseth does.
HILL: Because his comment was, was it when he talked about whether or not the position that C.Q. Brown was in, he said, was it because of his skin color or his skill? We'll never know, but there's always doubt.
ABDUL: And that's what I said. They have to answer based on -- they have to answer to that, much like Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk made the comments about the pilot saying that he's now going to feel any comfort --
(CROSSTALKS)
ABDUL: That's different from the firing, though. You can't say that he's fired because he's black.
PHILLIP: Okay, hold on. Let's just break this down. Pete Hegseth is the -- he is the secretary of defense. He said three months ago --
ABDUL: Before he was secretary of defense.
PHILLIP: Right. But, okay, he said three months ago, C.Q. Brown should be fired. He said so, because he said he doesn't know if he's qualified because he's black. Maybe he got his promotion because he's black or maybe he didn't. He questioned this man's qualifications after 40 years in the military.
But I want to -- okay, Pete Hegseth aside, C.Q. Brown aside, the person that Trump has chosen to replace him, this is the other part of the coin. It's what Pete Hegseth has said, and then there's also the kind of political loyalty that's at the heart of it. Here's what Donald Trump has said about Razin Caine, who is replacing him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: So, I walked down, and this is where I met General Razin Caine. And what's your name, General? What's your name? And he gave me his name. What's your name, Sergeant? Yes, sir, and I love you, sir. I think you're great, sir. I'll kill for you, sir. Then he puts on a Make America Great Again hat. You're not allowed to do that, but they did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABDUL: What's wrong with that?
PHILLIP: I didn't say anything was wrong with it. I'm just saying this is the context in which this is all happening. Trump is not he's -- he doesn't give us a lot of surprises. He likes people who love him and who are loyal to him.
FROST: One, especially after the last four years that he went through and seeing a lot of people who were part of his administration who then went out and were saying a lot of very negative things about him. He feels they were disloyal to him. So, he's going to be very serious about making sure he has people who he knows he can count on.
And I'll say we had the race conversation, it's not the first time relationships have soured between President Trump and the Pentagon. I mean, he's been very upset with the top generals before, General Milley, General Mattis, and race wasn't an issue there, it's just there's a very difference in their approach and leadership style.
PHILLIP: As far as I know, I have not heard Trump say anything about C.Q. Brown and things that he has actually done, so that's the other part of it, is that there's really not a lot there except for Pete Hegseth's comments. I want to hear your take on that last piece.
DOMI: Sure, but I just want to add, on the first day of the Trump administration, the commander of the Coast Guard was fired, a woman. Nobody said anything about it. It kind of got buried in 31, you know, executive orders. So, that's another person and that's gone from leadership. And this really is a readiness issue.
PHILLIP: Yes. We now have two members of the Joint Chiefs who are out tonight. Not unprecedented necessarily, but certainly a notable start to this Trump administration.
Tanya Domi, thank you very much for joining us. Everyone else, stay with us.
More breaking news tonight, the courts are delivering Trump some very bad news tonight, including a judge blocking his efforts to get rid of DEI across the entire government. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, the courts tell Donald Trump the word he likes to hear the least, no. A judge telling the president that his attempt to write diversity and equity and inclusion out of existence by an executive order crosses constitutional lines. The lawsuit from higher education groups alleges that Trump's day one order oversteps his power. The administration is arguing also that he was targeting programs that violate civil rights law.
Now, separately tonight, the Supreme Court has weighed in. They're rejecting Trump's bid to fire the head of a watchdog agency, at least for now. But tonight's developments are just more examples of what the president wants coming up against what the law actually allows and what the American people asked for.
Joanna Coles is with us now at the table. This is, you know, going to be the story of the next four years. But obviously, the courts, it's a bit of a mixed bag, but the courts are, in certain areas, stepping in and saying, hey, you've gone too far.
And I think actually the DEI order, being extremely sweeping, being halted tonight is very significant.
[22:20:00]
And also the watchdog groups, I think, is incredibly significant because this is how they kind of get away with doing whatever they want, is by taking, you know, the watchman out of the tower essentially.
JOANNA COLES, CHIEF CONTENT OFFICER, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, this is clearly a humiliating moment for Donald Trump, isn't it? But then at the same time, he's got so much else going on that it's hard to know to what extent he's actually paying any attention to this.
I mean, what's so fascinating about the way that one month in he's roared into office is that it's a sort of spray and pray. There's just so much going on that he may not even care. I'm sure he's spending all his time thinking how on earth do I manage Elon Musk? And that's what I'm hearing out of the White House that no one knows in the White House how to control Elon, least of all the president.
PHILLIP: Yes. And I think you're right, that they kind of don't care which ones stick, which ones don't, they're putting it all out there to see what happens.
ROCHA: I think it's really important that we base this conversation that it's the same Supreme Court who gave him immunity for any crimes he would ever commit. So, when folks are like, oh, this is a big win for Democrats, this Supreme Court said this is just a temporary thing, and it's the same one who said he can be exempt for all crimes. PHILLIP: Wasn't that -- I think you're right, but doesn't that suggest that, I mean, I'm not trying to defend the Supreme Court, but I'm just saying they are looking at the laws and the facts and they're taking it case by case.
ROCHA: That's their job. They should just look at the law. That's what worries me is if they don't. I'm glad that they looked at the law or not. I don't think they looked at the law when they gave him exemptions over everything. They've given him the power to be a king, if you will.
FROST: If you like every single thing that comes down with the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court isn't doing their job. And this was -- you know, they didn't say no, they said not now. So, you know, they're going to delay it to the end of February.
But what I found real interesting was how it broke down. You know, you had Gorsuch and Alito, and Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson and Sotomayor all agreeing. They were the dissenting justices. Now, they probably dissented for different reasons, but I mean, talk about bipartisanship. If you told me I would be seeing Ketanji Brown Jackson and Samuel Alito on the same side, I would have been shocked. So, I mean, it's definitely interesting on how, what the decision was.
PHILLIP: We're also -- I mean, it's not just the courts, but public opinion is starting to come in. We've got some poll numbers out showing that Elon Musk, as you pointed out, Joanna, is probably the most unpopular thing going on in this administration. More than half of the country thinks that having him in the White House is a bad thing. Another 53 percent say they don't like the government agencies being shut down. You look at the January 6th pardons, that's really unpopular. I mean, almost all Americans, 80-something percent of Americans oppose that.
So, the reality is setting in and Americans are saying this is too far.
ABDUL: Yes. So, I think that's what, like the court cases, I think this was all part of the strategy. Donald Trump has been president before. So, I think the strategy was to throw everything at the wall to see what sticks. We've seen some wins.
For Donald Trump, but we've also seen some losses for Donald Trump. There are judges who have said, you know what, I think around getting rid of some of the federal workers, there are judges who said, no, you can actually do that. And I think this is just part of the strategy. He's not going to win every case here and the Supreme Court, ultimately, of course, they're the ultimate decider, but I think that's important, but Donald Trump, the administration has to be concerned about the numbers because it isn't just the economic numbers. And we had -- you know, people have been talking about what's happening with the economy. They have to be concerned about that, but also any slippage.
And I think the big thing for Donald Trump, you know, the question is, well, what could change for Donald Trump? You know, what could happen to make him change course? I think for one, the stock market.
COLES: Well, the Dow is 700 points today, which means that people are beginning to feel it in their pensions, in their IRAs. All of that stuff starts to impact people, plus the fact that people now know someone whose cousin was just let go by the government.
Once this stuff trickles down, I think it's much more difficult to contain.
ROCHA: I think it already has, and this is my point on that, is that, this week, Congress was not in session, we're still paying them, they weren't in session, they were home. And when they were home, they had town halls. And if you looked at some of those town halls, folks were really upset. So, this is when you're going to start seeing that Congress hasn't said nothing.
HILL: No, I agree with you all. It's like now somebody knows a friend who lost a job, now somebody knows how the funding is impacted. And I think a lot of times people pay too much attention or they get too seduced by optics. And a lot of his voters did. The idea of government waste being rooted out and government fraud, and then they realize, oh, well, if he cuts grants at universities that are in my city, that means that a lot of people who work at that university now suddenly are looking at unemployment.
And so now they're realizing sort of the how the consequences of that vote and not understanding what you're voting for because everybody knew all the things proposed in Project 2025 were deeply unpopular and we're seeing this in real time. And I don't know, I mean, Trump is a stubborn person. And given all the people that are around the White House that are constantly, you know, that are his loyalists, I don't think he's going to change course.
[22:25:03]
I think he's going to continue.
As you said, financially, that might be something that will move him. But he's got too many people who are yes men and women around him to think -- to really fully understand how all of this is a terrible idea.
PHILLIP: Why would he change course? I mean --
(CROSSTALKS)
COLES: People are telling him, no, the courts are telling him, no, right? But it turns out that even the Supreme Court might turn out to be the resistance. Who knew? But I think his approval ratings are down to 45 percent. He's a man that loves an audience. He's the show. And the one person he has that he might be able to jettison, if he can figure out how to do it, to improve his own popularity, is Elon Musk.
And actually at the Daily Beast, we've been running excerpts of Michael Wolff's new book. Basically, Michael is the sort of official chronicler now of Donald Trump. And there's a fascinating bit where Elon comes onto the stage at the second Butler rally, and Donald Trump sees him, and he sees him jumping up and down, and his T-shirt doesn't fit.
ROCHA: He saw his belly.
COLES: His belly's full, and Donald Trump is like, what the F is the matter with him, why is he behaving like this, and no one knows how to contain him. And which doesn't mean that he isn't capable of doing a good job, but the way he's doing it, the reckless way that may work in tech, where you can move fast and break things, doesn't work at all.
ABDUL: And Donald Trump is the only person that can change that.
PHILLIP: The Washington Post reported, to your point, that it's unnerving even some of Trump advisers in the White House. So --
ABDUL: And I imagine continue his chief of staff too,
PHILLIP: Don't you worry.
Coming up next, is this what the new resistance looks like? A Democratic governor clashing with Trump to his face.
And a congresswoman makes a provocative remark about which side she's on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROCKETT: I'm rooting for Canada and I'm rooting for Mexico.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:31:19]
PHILLIP: Tonight, a strategy, but for resistance in the Trump era, or just for clicks. Democrats are trying to make viral moments. And here's just one example from today. The Maine governor taking a stand against the president's policy on transgender athletes, and Trump saying in so many words, that's a nice budget you have there. Would be a shame if anything happened to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I understand Maine. Is Maine here, the governor of Maine?
GOV. JANET MILLS (D) MAINE: I'm here.
TRUMP: Are you not going to comply with it?
MILLS: I'm complying with state and federal laws.
TRUMP: Well, we are the federal law. Well, you better do it. You better do it because you're not going to get any federal funding at all if you don't. And by the way, your population, even though it's somewhat liberal, although I did very well there, Your population doesn't want men playing in women's sports. So you better -- you better comply because otherwise you're not getting any -- any federal funding.
MILLS: See up in court.
TRUMP: Every state, good, I'll see you in court. I look forward to that. That should be a real easy one. And enjoy your life after, governor, because I don't think you'll be in elected politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Okay, so hours after that confrontation, the Trump Education Department's Civil Rights Division announced an investigation into whether Maine is allowing transgender girls to compete in women's athletics.
Welcome to the Trump era, everyone. I mean, this is what it's going to be like. I mean, but, I guess in a way, I wonder if this is exactly the kind of energy and spirit that maybe the Democratic base is looking for in their leaders right now, Chuck.
ROCHA: That's what I was saying when I was watching it. Regardless of the issue, I just want somebody to stand up. You can tell how uncomfortable he gets when somebody's in his face. He's like every other bully that I've dealt with my entire life. I used to bounce in a nightclub and the one who was always talking is not the one you had to worry about.
It was one being quiet, diligently doing their work or dancing or singing, whatever they were doing at the nightclub. But it's the one who's jabbing all the time. He's not used to somebody in his face. Democrats, listen to me, all you got to do is stand up to a bully. All you got to do is get in their face and tell them your opinion and you got to go the American people go, look, he's crazy but here's my idea. It is not near as crazy as that.
PHILLIP: Can I -- let me just this is the other example. So Jasmine Crockett, you know her. She's been on the show before. She said this when she was on the Breakfast Club. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): I mean Canada has really been the one to call it out. The fact that I'm rooting for Canada and I'm rooting for Mexico a lot is really wild. But they are really the ones that are speaking truth to power right now. They can see what it is and they were like, we are not messing with this crazy regime from Mar-a-Lago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FROST: Probably not the best look after we lost a hockey game in Canada last night.
HILL: The timing wasn't great. FROST: But going back to Governor Mills, I mean, I know this is
definitely what the Democrats want. They want those viral moments. They love the idea of a strong woman standing up to President Trump. And it might play well on the Internet. I seriously doubt that this is going to play well for her in the state of Maine. I have family in Maine. I go there every summer.
Actually, the state rep who brought this issue to light is a good friend of mine. And the Maine State House is incredibly close right now. Republicans only had -- the Democrats only have a two seat majority. If she's going to pick a fight and have a lengthy court battle on a very unpopular issue from the 2024 general election, it could flip the Maine second, it could flip the Maine state House.
And in Maine, the secretary of state, attorney general, and state auditor are all selected by the state legislature. They're not elected statewide. So she could be looking at handing a lot of control in her state to Republicans if they want to talk about this.
PHILLIP: It's an important point about the types of issues, right? Like it's tempting to feel good about pushing back on Trump about whatever. But the reality is that the one thing Trump is not doing is actually addressing the cost of living for Americans.
[22:35:01]
And wouldn't it be a smart thing for Democrats to focus on that as opposed to making these moments?
HILL: Well, no, I mean, I think they can do both. I mean, to be honest, because let's be real about Americans, they like a certain level of entertainment. And that's kind of how we got Donald Trump, is that he's had a lot of these types of moments that people who maybe have a short attention span aren't necessarily paying the attention to the issues on a day-to-day or out-of-hour basis, like most of us are consuming kind of political news.
And so, when they see somebody standing up to Trump, that registers. And while, to your point, you know, like, that might not play great for Maine, but I think right now, a lot of Democratic voters, they need to see this kind of resistance. They need to see this kind of fight because they feel like, I think they felt pretty abandoned by the Democratic Party for most of this flurry of Trump activity.
They felt like, like Jasmine Crockett, even though, you know, again, this is coming off a very contentious rivalry with U.S. and Canada and hockey, may not have been the best moment, but the fact is Jasmine Crockett, her visibility has exploded in this moment because she's doing something that Democrats should be doing, which is going on TV, going on different programs all the time, and reminding people of the clown show that we have going on in D.C.
PHILLIP: And speaking in plain English, which I think is big.
HILL: Correct.
PHILLIP: Which I think is big.
PHILLIP: Going a long way.
HILL: Yeah.
PHILLIP: Okay, one last thing. Speaking of plain English, I won't even say what this congressman said, but he defended his use of the, should I just say the D word? He called Elon Musk the D word, and this is why he said he did it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): I haven't stopped speaking out against Elon Musk or Donald Trump's policy since we got that letter. I'm going to continue to speak out, and I encourage Democrats, the public, we've got to be vocal in our opposition.
And I think one thing that you are hearing from people, and I'm certainly hearing it back home, is that people want us to be tough. People want us to be aggressive in our approach of taking on the dismantling of our federal institutions. And that shouldn't stop, and it's certainly not going to stop for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: He also got a letter from the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia who apparently has not a whole lot else to do other than play cop for Elon Musk, but --
ABDUL: As my granddaddy would say, you know I really like people who are real smart at the mouth. So the exchange with the Maine governor, I actually liked it. I mean Donald Trump went out, he called her out and she went back at him. I think that is -- that is perfect, much different than what we're seeing with Jasmine Crockett when you're going around saying that you're rooting for other countries.
And this is coupled with as viral moment that Representative Crockett has. She continues to do this sort of thing over and over again. It's kind of hip and it appeals to a certain part of the Democratic base. But this is not the same type of party.
For instance, the Nancy Pelosi type of party, when Nancy Pelosi could call someone and say, you need to stop that. So, what are the Democrats doing now? They're screaming, yelling expletives outside of federal buildings. And the question for Democrats is that what is --
ROCHA: We also have sternly worded memos. Don't forget about that.
ABDUL: That's sternly worded memos.
PHILLIP: Don't forget about the memos. There have been Democrat memos.
ABDUL: But I think Democrats need more.
ROCHA: Sternly worded. ABDUL: Yeah, I think the Democratic party, they want more from their
leaders. And what we're seeing from Maxine Waters, Chuck Schumer, Representative Crockett, it is not what they need in order to win because midterms is really going to be around the corner. And then you have 2028. I don't think they're setting themselves up well because everything -- their hair is on fire each and every time.
PHILLIP: No more memos, okay?
ABDUL: Let's start with that.
COLES: I would just say that we are one month in and it is a show, right? Donald Trump is a show. His people are a show and people are watching it. There's no reason for the Democrats to start leaping in at this moment. Let Trump do his thing, let Elon do his thing and then let the voters decide.
ABDUL: So, the James Carville approach, because you know that's what I think James Carville said, Democrats need to just sit back --
COLES: And let the show come out.
ROCHA: Look, as a Democrat here, let me explain how the Democrats work. They're rule followers. And they love a good rule. They love a sternly warranted memo, as well. But they love the rules. You know what Donald Trump does? He don't play by the rules.
COLES: Right. No rules.
ROCHA: There's no rules. And so we don't know what to do. A bunch of over-educated, mainly white folks trying to figure this out from Harvard and Yale.
UNKNOWN: They're like, what the rules?
ROCHA: But the rules, you see, you can't do that. They throw it on the board.
FROST: But I will tell you, Chuck, one rule that I strongly, I will live by as long as I'm on television, if you can't say it to your grandmother, don't say it on television.
PHILLIP: Okay, well, we start also with the president.
HILL: Some of us had to say it. I'm saying. We could say that, too. So --
COLES: Some of us were being told that by our parents.
HILL: Exactly. I was like --
FROST: My Nana would kill me. I can't say that.
PHILLIP: Yeah, certain things I just won't say, even if the president says it. Coming up next, he is not an anchorman, but he plays one on stage. And now, George Clooney has a message for the media and is breaking a silence finally about Donald Trump's win.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:44:23]
PHILLIP: Tonight, George Clooney has a diagnosis that explains why Donald Trump won and why Joe Biden clung to hope that he could win for so long. The actor told "The New York Times" that outlets like the one he talked to didn't do their jobs, that they didn't make clear that the former president was hiding his incapacities. The media, he says, in many ways dropped the ball. Okay, I mean, I'll just open it up. I don't know who has thoughts. I wonder if this is a little revisionist in a way.
COLES: Well, this was an incredibly difficult story to cover because Biden's team of the closest six people to him, including his wife and his son, Mike Donilon and Anne Tomasini, kept him incredibly protected.
[22:45:00]
He rarely went out. He didn't give press conferences. Donald Trump has probably spoken more to the press in the one month he's been in power Biden than Joe Biden did for the entire time he was president. So it was very difficult to actually cover this story.
So was it the media's fault? The media could have done more, but a lot of people in the media were talking about this. "The Wall Street Journal" wrote about it. "The New York Times" wrote about it. "The Daily Beast" wrote about it.
PHILLIP: Yeah, and "The New York Times" and "The Journal" were raked over the coals.
COLES: Absolutely.
PHILLIP: I'm old enough to remember that at least, that they were raked over the coals by Biden supporters forever even mentioning the president's age. But just on Clooney for a second. Just look at this timeline because on June 14th, he hosted a fundraiser with President Biden. We saw him there. There were actually criticisms of Biden at that very fundraiser on how he was behaving.
COLES: And they raised $28 million.
PHILLIP: They, yes, and it was not until a month later after the disastrous debate that he then actually said Biden should step down. So, every -- there's a lot of blame to go around, but certainly the people who were up close to him in that timeframe could have said something earlier.
FROST: And they obviously had a great amount of influence over him and they should have been like, Mr. President, you're not able to serve another four years. You're not going to be the strongest candidate for the Democratic Party. You need to step aside. And his refusal to do that and just hanging on for dear life is what led to now Trump's second term.
But as far as Clooney goes, he hosts that fundraiser, he saw him. But he didn't step out until after people on this very network were saying, they're worried, they're looking to replace him. This is a serious concern here.
PHILLIP: You know, almost two weeks after the debate. So, it was well into this whole conversation.
FROST: He likes to play a hero and you know, in the movies and he thinking he's the hero for the Democratic Party now. And so like, see, I told you guys, you know.
PHILLIP: I'll give him credit for first putting out the op-ed that he did, because that was a real flash point in that conversation. But there is, you know, for the people, the donors, the staffers, those are the folks who were the most resistant to this idea that Biden should go.
HILL: Yeah, I mean, listen, I think especially as you know, as a journalist, it can be really tricky when you're dealing with somebody at that level and their health and, you know, nobody wants to step out there and be wrong, even though you may hear the whispers, you want to make sure that you have everything confirmed.
I found it really interesting reading that piece about Clooney, how he also didn't blame the Biden administration for being terrible at explaining that we're a world economy where we're actually doing better than all the other G7 countries.
I'm like, that information was out there quite a bit, that when it came to the, you know, the inflation and that the U.S. was doing much better than other countries. So, he's not only blaming the media, but he's also blaming the Biden administration and Democrats for the narratives that were said. And I'm like --
PHILLIP: But I do think you have to acknowledge, Jamal, that, yes, the Biden administration may have talked about these things, but Joe Biden was not the best messenger of his own record.
ABDUL: And they knew that, they knew that, which is why they changed the primary calendar to benefit Joe Biden. They didn't have to go through a primary. Kamala Harris, of course she was in a tough spot, but Kamala Harris knew that Joe Biden was in a diminished capacity. What did everyone do when they got on television? I don't, you know, George Clooney trying to blame the media.
PHILLIP: Yeah.
ABDUL: It's not the media.
PHILLIP: Well, let's listen to some of what they were saying. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RITA BRAVER, CBS CORRESPONDENT: Quite a few Americans have some questions about the president's current mental fitness. As somebody who spends I can see you shaking your head.
JILL BIDEN, FORMER U.S. FIRST LADY: Yes.
BRAVER: So, what's your response to that?
BIDEN: I think that's ridiculous.
UNKNOWN: Do you believe that the president is as sharp today as he was when he took this job?
KARINE JEAN-PERRE, FORMER WHITE HOIUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He is as sharp as ever, as I have known him to be in my engagement and my experience.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D): His mental acuity is great. It's fine. It's as good as it's been over the years. All this right-wing propaganda that his mental acuity is defined as wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROCHA: George Clooney is not the first person to tell me how to do my job, because I'm a political consultant. People tell me that all the time. I've got a better way for you to run this campaign. Let me tell you how Joe Biden's going to win. Why did you work for Bernie Sanders? I've heard it all, from my mama, from my wife. I hear it. George Clooney, welcome home to the bandwagon here.
The thing that's went down is exactly what you're talking about. This group of folks that were around him. Because I work with those folks, I run a presidential campaign and that's true. You protect the principle at all costs, but at a certain point, we all would tell Bernie Sanders, or whoever that is, the tough thing that they needed to hear, the best for the campaign, the best for the primary.
I've been on a primary where my principal had a heart attack. I'll take somebody back to that day in Las Vegas when we found Bernie Sanders in the shower. Like those kind of crazy things when you sit and go, okay, the campaign's over. I'll never forget that phone call when they're like, we're going to have to shut it down. Those are real things.
[22:50:01]
PHILLIP: Wow. I've never heard that you found him in the shower.
ROCHA: I didn't. They called me and told me that it was bad. Like he had had a heart attack.
PHILLIP: Wow. Yeah.
ABDUL: But imagine how difficult it is to have that conversation with the actual president. A candidate is different. But the president of the United States, and I was saying last fall when David Axelrod first started coming out with these criticisms, I said, oh, so he had a conversation with Barack Obama about this.
PHILLIP: Well -- ABDUL: He -- Joe Biden didn't respond to it. He came out again. Joe Biden didn't respond to it. Then you heard the rumors, the murmurings of like Nancy Pelosi and others who were encouraging him to do it because Joe Biden said, because he truly believed that he was the only person who could beat Donald Trump. And to his credit, he had beaten them before and I think that's what he's waiting on because he wasn't the transitional president that he promised to be.
COLES: Well, I was going to say he had a very good showing in the midterms, right? So, it was in April 23 when without as far as we know any input from his advisors or his family he announced that he was going to run and he wasn't going to be the transition candidate from generations between the older and the younger generation as he promised, he was actually going to run again because what does power do? It intoxicates people and makes them think they can do more than they can.
PHILLIP: Yeah.
COLES: And we're seeing it again. This might be the death kneel of the idea that there are people around, people in power who are going to tell them the truth. I just, I'm not sure we're in that era anymore, to be honest.
Coming up next, our panel will give us their nightcaps, rule change edition in honor of the New York Yankees. We'll explain what that's about, next.
(COMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:56:16]
PHILLIP: The comedians of "Have I Got News for You", they are back and they're hosting Republican Congressman Mike Lawler at the table, and he had an interesting musical performance for the group.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Donald Trump lives by one song. It was a Beach Boys hit back in the day. Aruba, Jamaica, Panama, I'm going take you. Bermuda, Bahama, Greenland come home to your mama, Key Largo. Toronto, Trudeau, why don't we go? Off the Mediterranean Sea, there's a place called Gazelago, that's where we've got to go to get some USAID.
(APPLAUSE)
AMBER RUFFIN, COMEDIAN: We just have to prepare a song because, honey --
UNKNOWN: We can freestyle a song right here.
ROY WOOD JR., COMEDIAN: Hey, of the memorization alone, I got to give points.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: I would give him points, too. You can catch the whole episode of "Have I Got News for You" tomorrow night at 9 P.M. on CNN. And now, no songs here, but it is time for our "NewsNight" cap rule change edition today. The New York Yankees reversed their long-time ban of beards in the clubhouse. Players can now have them as long as they're, quote, well-groomed.
So, you each have 30 seconds to tell us which long-time rule you would change. Melik.
ABDUL: My rule, shoes at the airport. Or at least make them having to take off their shoes at the airport. Through the security line, that and laptops is so inconsistent. If you go to Denver, you don't have to take your laptop out of your briefcase or anything. I think there needs to be some consistency and repeal this idea that you have to take off your shoes in order to get on the plane.
PHILLIP: Amen.
ROCHA: If I could repeal all the bans, I would repeal all the things that my wife won't let me do. We literally call her guardrails. But for this segment, we will say that what I want a band is no alcohol at the baseball game after the seventh inning. If we can have beers, we can have beers, as well.
COLES: Okay, so mine also involves feet. I was once on the subway and the person next to me cut their toenails on the subway. And one piece, one chip of toenail claimed flying over in a parabola missed me and hit the person on my left. So, I would say no toenail clipping on the subway.
HILL: You would think some things would be just understood. I also have a sports one. So the day after the Super Bowl, what happens? We all have to go to work. What if we had a rule where we didn't have to go to work. The day after the Super Bowl should be a national holiday. We don't have to go after that, right? So --
UNKNOWN: That works.
PHILLIP: Yes. I totally agree.
HILL: I want to see that change. No working after the Super Bowl.
PHILLIP: I can't get over the toenails, though. I'm sorry. That's really disgusting.
COLES: New York Public subway.
FROST: I think you win with that one. But mine is also sports related. So the Four Nations face-off was a huge success for the NHL. I have friends who had never cared about hockey before but they all tuned in to watch and why. The viral clips that sucked us in with three fights in the first nine seconds. But in the NHL, if you leave the bench to join a fight, you get an automatic misconduct.
We need to get rid of that. We need to bring back the bench clearing brawls of the '90s. Let's have some good old-fashioned hockey fights. We need to see them.
PHILLIP: You know what? That's actually a very good take.
HILL: More sports should actually allow fighting. There it is.
PHILLIP: Right. They don't even pretend to not want the fighting. So why not just like --
FROST: It's the old joke.
[23:00:00]
I went to a hockey game. And I went to a fight and the hockey game broke out. Like, this is why people love hockey. Let's bring it back. Bring those goalies skating out to face off too. Let's just do it.
HILL: Oh, when goalies skate, when they face off, that's the best.
FROST: Oh, it's the best. I love it.
ROCHA: I want to go back to Mike Lawler and say that you know he does a Michael Jackson impression, as well. I mean like dressing up and dancing like Michael Jackson.
PHILLIP: Yeah, he's a Michael Jackson's super fan. That's right. You just reminded me of that. All right, everyone. Thank you very much. Have a great weekend. Thanks for watching "NewsNight" and we'll see you tomorrow morning at 10 A.M. Eastern with our conversation show, "Table for Five". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
