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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Judge Says, Trump's Mass Firings of Workers Likely Unlawful; Pardoned January 6th Rioter Speaks out at the Table; DOJ Signals Making January 6th Pardons Wider in Scope. Tate Brothers Arrive in Florida After The Lifting Of Travel Restrictions; A Child Dies And Dozens Are Sick In America's Largest Measles Outbreak. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired February 27, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tonight, unlawful, a judge tells the Trump administration there's no universe where DOGE's deep cuts are legal, while conservative radio gets an earful from their own people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just a little concerning that we don't let these guys get neglected because they've done so much for our country.
PHILLIP: Plus, she went to jail for January 6th crimes was pardoned only to become the target of her fellow rioters. Pam Hemphill joins the table.
Also, MAGA reportedly imports alleged criminals accused of heinous crimes against women.
And a disease from the past haunts the present as RFK Jr. doesn't do the one thing that made measles a memory.
Live at the table, Congressman Jared Moskowitz, Melik Abdul, Arthur Aidala, Nayyera Haq, and Roy Wood Jr.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening, I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about, DOGE defied. Tonight, the courts are again standing in Elon Musk's way. A federal judge in California is the latest to put up a flashing red light. He's telling the administration that its attempts to fire huge chunks of the federal bureaucracy are unlawful. That judge says this, OPM does not have any authority whatsoever under any statute in the history of the universe to hire and fire employees within another agency. The agencies could thumb their nose at OPM if they wanted to.
Another judge says that the plaintiff's trying to stop DOGE from accessing federal databases that they deserve to know more, and is compelling the Trump administration to actually testify.
Roy Wood is back at the table with us. Welcome. An all new episode, by the way, of Have I Got News for You, it airs this Saturday night. But Congressman Moskowitz, you're a part of the DOGE caucus. And so far, what do you make of all the things that they have done and just what the judge said tonight. The biggest thing that they're trying to do is fire all these probationary workers. The judge is like, this is nowhere in the legal books that they're allowed to do this.
REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D-FL): Yes. Thanks Abby. Thanks for having me. Yes, I was the first Democrat to join the DOGE caucus. Of course, Marjorie Taylor Greene, who chairs the committee, wouldn't let me talk the other day. She denied me even the ability to attend the hearing. So, the free speech people are at it again.
But, look, at the end of the day, right, this is why when that email first came out from a couple of days ago, you saw the Department of Defense, the secretary of Department of Defense and the people there, you saw the State Department saying that don't answer the email. And that wasn't because they wanted to be disrespectful, it was because OPM has never had authority to issue that sort of edict to those departments. And even the secretaries that Trump appointed that were Senate-confirmed knew that.
You know, as far as the DOGE, I think the majority of Americans believe government needs to become more efficient and government should spend less money. And if you look at the polling, they still believe in the mission. But the polling also shows the execution is not favorable, and neither is Elon. And how they're doing it is the big mistake. They got to be working with Congress. We're $36 trillion in debt. The only way you're going to get at that is by working with Congress.
I appreciate that they say they found $60 billion. That's a lot of money, the American people, but to get at the debt, you're going to have to go to Congress.
NAYYERA HAQ, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SENIOR DIRECTOR, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: There's a challenge with them targeting not only probationary employees but also the way that they've been going about with a chainsaw and just cutting across all of these employees at key agencies, is that even when it gets resolved in court, the months and months it'll take, they've already, when they realize, oops, we got rid of the nuclear security inspectors, oops, we got rid of the people who are inspecting for bird flu, oops, we can't find these people anymore. So, the damage is already being done even though there is legal recourse. That may take too long to fix what is broken.
ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, hopefully, though, we're going to follow the law, right? I mean, I'm the lawyer, so I want -- if the judge says, no, you can't do this, we have to, as a society, follow what the judge says, and then follow the procedures. There's now an appeal. And if there's going to be an appeal, then let the appellate courts make that decision.
[22:05:01]
The president of the United States has Congress, and they have the Senate. What the congressman is saying is accurate, but they could take it a step further. They could change the law. And they could say this agency, OPM, now does have the ability to do X, Y, and Z.
MOSKOWITZ: Are you suggesting that Congress has to pass a law?
AIDALA: That's up to you, sir.
PHILLIP: Elon is also -- he's already saying some of these judges should be impeached because they're ruling in ways that he doesn't like.
ROY WOOD JR., CNN HOST: Exactly, because we're going to wait on the law but all they're going to do is try and circumvent the law. Elon is going, well, if the president can't do what he wants, is that a democracy? No, it's a democracy because everybody's supposed to have a say. We're literally watching DOGE, like watching DOGE in the way that they're making these cuts, it's like watching somebody put together LEGOs without the instructions. And then you realize on page 20, you need to go back to page 2 and go all the way back and figure out what you did wrong. And that's just backwards.
AIDALA: That's why you need Roy here, though, for the LEGO analogy. See, that's -- only he can break it down with LEGOs.
WOOD: They fired a dude -- they fired the only dude at the park who got the keys to the bathroom. Was it Yellowstone? One of the national parks.
AIDALA: You know what, do they have trees? Do they have trees.
MELIK ABDUL, GOP POLITICAL STRATEGIST: I think that, and I think you're right, and, you know, the Trump campaign, the Trump, the White House, they're quick to point it out, and it is a fact that the majority of Americans do agree with cutting waste, fraud and abuse. But what I would like to see, because I haven't seen any polling, even though I kind of have a sense of how it would turn out, ask specific questions, do you like how DOGE is going about what it's doing? We're seeing people asking, do you support, you know, eliminating waste, fraud and abuse? They ask those questions --
PHILLIP: There has been a polling on that.
MOSKOWITZ: 34 percent of Americans support how DOGE is going about it, when 75 percent of Americans support the mission. So, that tells you right there that the execution has been a big failure. And these probationary folks, probation makes it sound like they've done something wrong.
PHILLIP: Right.
MOSKOWITZ: These are people in some instances -- PHILLIP: They're just new hires, essentially.
MOSKOWITZ: Oh, no, they took a promotion. In their promotion, they're on probation for the first year. That's why they're making these mistakes because they're just having some algorithm go through. They're letting off -- they're firing veterans.
PHILLIP: I don't think that -- do you really think that those are mistakes or is the intention just to slash heads, like because they just need to get to certain numbers? I mean, we heard Elon the other day in the White House saying, oh, we have to cut X billion dollars every single day until September. He doesn't really care where that money comes from. He only cares about the numbers.
ABDUL: Yes. And I think that's the big point with Elon Musk. He doesn't care. Donald Trump has been president of the United States before. So, there are people around Donald Trump who understand how government works. What we're going to get into, and nobody's really talking to it yet, as they continue to cut a lot of these employees, many of them, especially career employees, are protected under the Merit System Protections Board, which means that when they're fired, they can appeal that to the Merit System Protections Board. And what you're going to see is a backlog of cases of former federal employees filing and probably get into --
PHILLIP: And the judges are going to step in. I want to play this, though, because these are some of the literal voices of Trump supporters who are confused about what's happening right now in their own government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of our tenants just recently got laid off from the USDA, and he's stable back, multiple deployments overseas.
Just a little concerning that we don't let these guys, you know, fall off the wagon here and get neglected because they've done so much for our country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The reason I'm calling is so I'm a current federal employee.
How do you make life decisions, try to figure out what to do, how do you know to send your kids to college, if you can afford to buy a house when there's no information coming from the administration, which I support strongly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just wanted to call and advocate for my daughter here. So, my daughter was diagnosed with a DIPG. It is a brain tumor of the brain stem.
With the lack of funding, basically, all you get is parents like me who have had a kid with this, starting organizations and coming up with money to carry on the research for them. So, that's why I wanted to call and, you know, advocate for research.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, real life consequences here, very serious stuff.
HAQ: We heard Donald Trump say many times. There will be pain as I enact my policies, right? We've seen Elon Musk talk about varieties of ways in which certain types of people should be advanced in society. And that's a reality that is hitting home for millions of Americans right now. The irony being, though, that by the time they're able to develop or figure out what the reaction is going to be, the consequences will already have put in place. And you have now the Steve Bannons of the world who are like, you know, Medicaid is a big part of our MAGA base. People care about this. And the coalition includes these CEO monarch tech bros, like this is going to come to a head sooner rather than later.
PHILLIP: Roy, I wonder what you think about just the sheer number of people who say, I support this administration.
[22:10:04]
That was the Sean Hannity show they were calling into. What do you say to them that now they're realizing actually this stuff is affecting me and I voted for Donald Trump?
WOOD: You're about to get a serious education on government and how government works. And I empathize with all the people that are going to suffer under these cuts because you have someone who's essentially trying to run this country like a tech company where you can chop off big limbs when you're making cuts in tech because you don't have to think about the rollover. And that like DOGE makes cuts in departments I didn't even know existed as an American. Just we're cutting the Department of Oxygen.
AIDALA: Okay, but that's great. Not Department of Oxygen, but one of those departments, they cut 800 people out of 13,000. So, it's less than 10 percent. It's like an 8 percent cut.
MOSKOWITZ: Yes, but which 800? Yes, but which 800? In FEMA, they just let go of a thousand people. A lot of that is senior management. A lot of that is coming from the general counsel's office. And so who you're firing is also a big deal.
AIDALA: But often that happens in agencies like CNN, like other corporations. They look at who's making the most money and is there a younger person who's hipper who's going to get less money and they're going to take --
MOSKOWITZ: That's a key point because these are all related. So, as they're trying to figure out how they're going to pay how they're going to extend the Trump tax cuts with a $4 trillion number on that without adding to the debt because Republicans have been against that until they get into power, of course, this is the problem. If you're not going to slash Social Security or Medicare or now Medicaid, there's not enough money to do that.
And so what Elon's mission is they're trying to figure out where they can find all this money in order to extend the tax cuts. That's the entire game that is going on.
AIDALA: Okay. But a lot of people are happy with those tax cuts.
HAQ: They're prioritizing efficiency over government services, right? Many of the people who were hired in probationary circumstances, especially post-COVID, were the scientists and the researchers and the inspectors who were working on bird flu, influenza, vaccine research. Those are the ones that you fire first because they're probationary. So, these are services that people need.
PHILLIP: Just to highlight something from the callers that we played, one of them was talking about serious brain tumor, cancer research. That is a serious problem. There are plenty of people out there who are relying on cancer research funded by the government. That funding has basically dried up and those people essentially have no hope. So, it's a tragic situation for so many Americans right now.
But coming up next, one of the pardoned January 6th rioters is now free to travel, and she'll join us here at the table, why Pam Hemphill is in a war of words with the freed Proud Boys leader and what she wants to say to Donald Trump ahead of his address to Congress next week. Don't miss this conversation.
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[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: This week, the Justice Department is changing its story. When Donald Trump pardoned the criminals who were convicted or pled guilty of insurrection and insurrection-related crimes, the Justice Department said that the pardon only applied to those crimes, not to all the other things. Now, the DOJ lawyers are saying that they have clarity, and those pardons actually apply to other crimes, not just the ones that were committed on January 6th.
It is a head-spinning shift, and one that has a former January 6th rioter worried about who exactly Donald Trump is putting back on the streets.
Joining us here in our fifth seat at the table is Pam Hemphill. She marched on the Capitol and served 60 days behind bars for her crimes. She's now allowed to travel because she was pardoned by Donald Trump.
Pam, you've been on this show many, many times. And for those of you who are watching who have not seen her, Pam has done a 180 from where you were on January 6th. But when you hear that the DOJ is saying everybody's pardoned, not just because of what they did on January 6th, but all of the other infractions, which include some violent crimes, weapons charges, all kinds of other things, what do you make of that?
PAM HEMPHILL, PARDONED FOR PARTICIPATION IN JAN. 6 RIOT: That's horrifying. No, it should never have happened. I pleaded guilty because I was guilty. I'm not a victim of January the 6th and the DOJ was not weaponized against me. I was a volunteer. I broke the law. It's that easy. And they do not want to face that. PHILLIP: So, you've been, in a bit of a back and forth with Enrique Tarrio, who's the head of the Proud Boys. He's been I think you would describe it as harassing you to a degree on social media. One of his posts, he said, tell your new judge you'll be arrested soon. There's another one where he encouraged someone to sue you for slander, et cetera. Some of this stuff is pretty kind of foul language. What do you make of this harassment and are you worried for your own safety?
HEMPHILL: Well, yes and no. No, I don't like bullies. I'm not afraid of them. I'm upset that Trump lied that the election was stolen. That's why I was there. And what's happening is I'm destroying their narrative and they don't like it. Too bad, I'm going to continue to destroy your narrative because you've been lying about everything that happened on January the 6th. I've had a year-and-a-half of pushing back on you and researching. And everything you have shared, Tarrio, saying you didn't get due process. I looked up the court recordings. You got due process. You are lying about everything on that day.
PHILLIP: And now he's out there, he's harassing Pam. He's also harassing January 6th police officers who were injured seriously. And then this latest from the DOJ, Congressman, I mean, what do you make of their about turn on this?
[22:20:03]
Why are they trying to pardon these people for everything?
MOSKOWITZ: Well, first of all, I mean, let me just say that I have immense respect for Pam. I mean, I serve with people on Capitol Hill that pretend it was a beautiful day and that, you know, people were just getting a tour and took a wrong direction and that everything was perfect, and there were no guns there, no police officers were harmed, and here we have someone who went there and is taking the responsibility. I mean, that's what should have happened, period.
You know, I think what's going on here is that there was a debate, I think, within the White House, whether to do this again with a scalp or with a hatchet, which is a theme we're now seeing, and they took a hatchet. And when they did that, they realized that they pardoned some people that shouldn't have been pardoned. Remember, J.D. Vance said, if you were violent that day, you're not going to get a pardon. That was a direct quote from the vice president, and then everyone got pardoned. And so they own this. And so now that they own it, I think what they're trying to do is they're owning it all the way down because now they can't parse it.
PHILLIP: Is it because there's no accountability, they figure why not, who's going to stop them?
WOOD: Yes, exactly. If you're for Trump, you get the hookup. That's what it is. I'm sorry to be that broad about it, but, I mean --
PHILLIP: You're not wrong.
WOOD: If you just look at the last month-and-a-half of how the administration -- PHILLIP: The litmus test is just support and loyalty.
WOOD: Yes.
HEMPHILL: May I say something?
PHILLIP: Absolutely.
HEMPHILL: You know, see, Trump lied about the election, right? And he's lying about everything. So, what he has to do, he has to keep his narrative going, that the DOJ is weaponized against him. And if you -- they're coming after me, but they're really coming after you.
AIDALA: Well, Pam, you know, having no reflection on you, you have to say the DOJ was weaponized against Donald Trump and you can say the Manhattan D.A.'s office was and the New York State attorney general was. I mean, there's no doubt about it I practice in this area of law. That case that was brought by Alvin Bragg in the Manhattan District Attorney's Office was the first of its kind in the history of the United States of America. So, they would definitely targeting him. I'm not talking about January 6th. I'm talking about Donald Trump himself.
And I think he's got PTSD. You know, it turned out all right for him, but he almost went to jail federally. He almost went to jail statewide. They called his three adult children to the stand in the finance case. They took his companies and said, you can't run your companies in the state of New York.
So, in terms of Donald Trump, the whole system was definitely weaponized against him.
PHILLIP: Do you think that he should have faced charges for his role on January 6th?
HEMPHILL: I disagree.
AIDALA: The president of the United States?
PHILLIP: The now president of the United States?
AIDALA: Him? Personally, no.
PHILLIP: Why?
AIDALA: Because he doesn't meet the threshold for acting in concert or conspiracy. There was no evidence that there was a real conspiracy under the letter of the law.
PHILLIP: So, you don't think that there should be any accountability for Trump's role in spinning up a complete farcical lie about the election to draw people to the Capitol? He encouraged them. He directly encouraged them to come on that day. He said it's going to be wild. You don't think there should be any consequences whatsoever for that kind of conduct?
AIDALA: Not federal criminal consequences. PHILLIP: So, what consequences should they be?
AIDALA: Well, there was. Look, you have Pam, who was a supporter and that was against him. You have a lot of people who think --
PHILLIP: But people like Pam who paid the price.
AIDALA: but she said she deserved to be here.
ABDUL: And Donald Trump was held responsible because Donald Trump was impeached. Now, if there was a criminal case to be made, the Biden administration obviously could have filed charges against Donald Trump. It was being investigated, but it's important.
PHILLIP: Don't you remember when Mitch McConnell stood on the Senate floor and said, I'm not going to vote in favor of impeachment because there is a criminal process that should follow.
MOSKOWITZ: Yes.
PHILLIP: He said that.
MOSKOWITZ: Yes, I know. Look. We could play that game all day long, right? Hypocrisy in Washington, it just doesn't matter anymore. I assume you would agree that not all of those people should have been pardoned.
AIDALA: Yes.
MOSKOWITZ: I mean, that was a mistake. And, look, I've been very clear on this. I think some of the pardons that President Biden did also shouldn't have happened.
AIDALA: But he campaigned on it. He said he was going to pardon everyone and he followed through.
MOSKOWITZ: Hold on. You are right about that. Everything he said, other than having dinner with Hannibal Lecter, has happened, okay? He has absolutely --
AIDALA: Did he say he was going to have dinner with Hannibal Lecter?
MOSKOWITZ: Well, he talked a lot about having dinner, okay, with Hannibal Lecter. But you're right, all of that stuff was on the ballot. People may not have believed him. It doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it right.
PHILLIP: He also didn't -- he did not actually say that he was going to pardon violent offenders and then pardon them for all the other allegations or crimes that they may have committed that completely unrelated to January 6th. I mean, what is that about that part?
AIDALA: Well, I haven't -- that part, I have not studied. So, I hesitate to comment on it. But President Biden on his way out the door pardoned people for crimes that weren't committed for like a decade at a time. PHILLIP: You're talking about his son --
AIDALA: His son and family.
[22:25:00]
(CROSSTALKS)
HEMPHILL: He sounds like an enabler.
AIDALA: Besides just his son.
HEMPHILL: He's doing all the propaganda again that keeps going around in this.
ABDUL: Well, that's not propaganda. Those are actually fact that Joe Biden did pardon his son for crimes that he had --
(CROSSTALKS)
MOSKOWITZ: I didn't like the pardons. I didn't like the preemptive pardons. But as it turns out, President Biden was right. I mean, you didn't -- they didn't hire Dan Bongino because he's a pacifist, right? So, the game is up. They're not de-weaponizing DOJ. They're going to take the playbook that they felt was run on them and, man, they are going to juice it up to ways we've never seen.
And that's why Dan Bongino was hired. So, as it turned out, while I didn't like the pardons, now President Biden was right to do it because, otherwise, those people would have been targeted.
PHILLIP: Pam, you're also going back to D.C. for the first time since January 6th. What are you there to accomplish? What do you want to see?
HEMPHILL: Well, I'm going to make amends and because I don't -- I want to hopefully see the Capitol chief, Capitol Police chief, I guess that's what he's called, the captain, and hug him and say, I'm so sorry that I was ever there that day, that I bought into all the propaganda that was going on and all the disinformation and finding out now that the election was never stolen. Even Pence had told him he didn't want to be a part of it. People around Trump told him that the election hadn't been stolen and he still went out there and lied to me anyway.
I paid 60 days in prison, I've never been in prison in my life, for lies and propaganda. And I'm telling you what, I need to go there tomorrow, I want to see if I can run into any of the senators, or you, or somebody.
WOOD: Don't run.
HEMPHILL: I'm going to be peaceful.
AIDALA: Didn't President Trump say to be peaceful that day? PHILLIP: Last thing for you, Pam. I mean, look, Donald Trump as we've been discussing here, not only is he unrepentant but he has doubled down on the lies that led you to the Capitol. What do you want to say to him?
HEMPHILL: I mean, you can't say anything to a narcissist, especially a dangerous one, ain't nothing you can say. I wouldn't say anything to him. Just try to get him out of office as soon as possible.
PHILLIP: All right. Pam Hemphill, thank you very much for joining us. Everyone else, hang tight.
Coming up next, two right wing influencers accused of horrific crimes in more than one country are now back on American soil and their arrival is splitting the MAGA world in half. We'll discuss next.
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[22:30:00]
PHILLIP: MAGA really might not want to be judged by the company they keep these days, at least when the company is Andrew and Tristan Tate. The brothers arrived in Florida today, and it is the first time the influencers have been home in years after the lifting of their travel restrictions.
They were not allowed to come and go as they pleased because they were facing charges of rape and human trafficking in Romania. They also spew misogynistic garbage to millions of people for money. Here is just a sampling of the disturbing and often graphic stuff that they've been saying, including why women learning self-defense is useless.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW TATE, RIGHT-WING INFLUENCER: Hey, you cheated, you cheated. It's bang out the machete, boom in her face and you grip her up by the neck. Shut up, bitch (ph). Yes, but you know what they didn't teach you in self-defense? Here's a little move. When I grab you by your neck and you start annoying me trying to resist, and I just -- and then I grab you by your neck again.
Then what the (BEEP) are you going to do when your face has collapsed? And your (BEEP) cheekbone's broken. You are not going to do shit (ph) but cry. It's not about being property, it's about the fact that she belongs to him and the intimate parts of her body belong to him because they're in a relationship. And if she wants to sell those, he has a stake in those parts of her body.
The woman is always giving over to the man. Read the Bible, read the Quran. I have seen so many women fail to park and crash cars and do dumb shit (ph). I do not want a female pilot flying me through a hurricane. I've seen enough female driving of all vehicles to know that that shit (ph) is a bad idea. And I want a male pilot.
Am I sexist? Yes. Why? Because of my experiences of the world. A 19 year old is more attractive than a 26 year old woman and I'll tell you why. Cause that 26 year old has talked to more guys, been to the club more times, been more places, more mess for me to clean up. Whereas a 19 year old might have had one guy from high school just broke up, she's fresh and I (BEEP) can put my imprint on her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Nayyera is back with us at the table. Look, I just want to add a little bit of just, the news here. One of the reasons that we're even talking about this is because there are some questions about why they are back in the United States.
So, a little while ago, Trump's special envoy, Rick Grinnell, met with Romania's foreign minister at the Munich Security Conference. They talked about the Tate brothers. The Romanians say, no pressure, but the conversation happened. I just want to know, why did the conversation happen in the first place? Why?
MELIK ABDUL, GOP POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Yeah, I am someone, you know, and I have said many times, I am O.G. MAGA, meaning two-time Obama voter turned Bernie bro, turned three-time Trump supporter. There are many distinctions on the right and what this support for -- that's not even MAGA. There's a lot of people on the right whether it's MAGA, independence, libertarians, they're all lumped in on the right.
I'll say there is no reason that anyone should be embracing -- you can set aside the, you know, criminal charges. Maybe they're innocent. But we heard -- what we heard on that tape and for me, I'd say there's no reason that anyone should be embracing them. But because we live in a post Elon Musk climate where he's now a baby daddy, got baby mama, several baby mamas and conservatives are embracing --
ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There's a big difference be having a lot of kids and a lot of -- with a lot of women --
ABDUL: But that's not a conservative thing.
AIDALA: These guys are saying --
ABDUL: Yes.
AIDALA: It is beyond disgraceful. I mean look, I'm a criminal defense attorney. We can't have a society where it's guilt by accusation, and we don't know the system in Romania. It's very different than the system in the United States of America. That being said, what those guys said was absolutely disgusting, horrible. I would never want to be in their company because of those views, which are disgusting.
NAYYERA HAQ, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SENIOR DIRECTOR, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: You know who it would be great to hear that from? Would be any one of the Trump administration officials who were involved in bringing them back home because we don't know what deal was cut with Romania, why they're back here. Governor Ron DeSantis, not exactly a feminist himself, said he doesn't even want them in the state right now.
UNKNOWN: He's investigating. PHILLIP: Yeah, I mean, let's play the Ron DeSantis thought.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R) FLORIDA: Clearly, the federal government has jurisdiction whether they want to rebuff his entry into the United States and I have confidence that whether it's Pam Bondi or Kristi Noem that they will be looking at that. The reality is, no, Florida is not a place where you're welcome with that -- with those that type of conduct in the air. And I don't know how it came to this. We were not involved. We were not notified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Your district, actually, is where they landed.
REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D) FLORIDA: Yeah, new constituents of mine. How fortunate. And actually, I used to work for Ron DeSantis, so I know how he feels about that. He means that, of what he's saying. Yeah, I mean, look, we heard from Trump on the campaign trail, right? Other countries were sending rapists, people from Messina's islands, human traffickers.
These guys literally are those people. And look, they're U.S. citizens, so they can't be barred here. But what was negotiated was that Romania had a travel ban on them. That's what was removed, which allowed them now to come to Florida.
PHILLIP: You know, the CEO of Barstool Sports, Dave Portnoy, not exactly a raging liberal, said this, "If I'm going to be fair, these questions need to be asked today. Why is the release of the Epstein's list always a shit (ph) show? What's the point of booting out illegal -- illegals and criminals while somehow becoming a safe haven for the Tate brother?"
To your point, Congressman, "Why is crypto in the toilet if Trump is the crypto king? How far does Tesla stock have to crash before Elon goes back to work?" It seems like some people are kind of questioning what's going on here. Why are all of these ancillary things that are not the economy and closing the border happening? And what's the objective?
HAQ: Many -- many of these influencers were part of the winning coalition. Now, you may say they're not O.G. MAGA and Trump may disavow them, at any point, he's welcome to, and he has not yet. But this is -- this is the coalition that got Trump to his maximum of his ability to win the election. And the coalition does include misogynistic men, young men, and the Tate brothers are part of that ecosystem that is raising up a generation to continue this type of talk.
ROY WOOD JR. COMEDIAN: Yes, and I think that if we look at Trump consistently just going back over 30, 40 years, he's always consistently been loyal to people that are loyal to him. So, if you've done anything that's been beneficial to my base, then right now, I think we're still in the honeymoon phase where he's still handing out cookies and rewards to everybody that's ever done something for him that was beneficial, whether you knew them or not, whether you ever shook the Tate brothers hand or not. Like it just, everybody's getting it.
ABDUL: They were not beneficial to Trump.
PHILLIP: No, well, okay, but to Roy's point though, here's -- let's just show some of this because I was struck by this. This was posted on November 10th by Andrew Tate. It's this like reel of videos that basically puts him alongside Trump and Trump iconography right after the election.
I mean, not by accident, right? The idea here is to create a sense of alignment between the garbage that they're spewing and the sort of machismo that Trump represents. Whether you like it or not, that is what they did.
ABDUL: So, here's what concerns me about this, is that this is very different from what was happening in the first Trump administration. There were -- when there were people around Donald Trump who ended up not meaning him any good or not being good for him, he got rid of them. But I wonder, who are these people around Donald Trump?
Because you can draw a straight line between the people who said, you know what, Donald Trump, even though J.D. Vance and many Republicans have said, we're fine with, you know, you're pardoning January 6th, it's just not those who were violent. Well, somebody around Donald Trump, because it wasn't Trump.
PHILLIP: The answer is not always the people. Look.
ABDUL: No.
PHILLIP: Donald Trump got rid of a lot of people who were, quote unquote, "good for him in the first term" because they contradicted him. What if it's just Donald Trump and not the people around him?
ABDUL: I don't think it's him because this is so different for Donald Trump and the fact that, for instance, Elon Musk, think about the amount of authority that he's given Elon Musk. This isn't what Donald Trump did in his first administration, but Elon Musk is literally conducting press conferences overshadowing Donald Trump in many ways.
WOOD JR.: That's not on brand for you. We got to be careful to make sure that he's still the president. So, he still should have some say in what's going on.
[22:40:00]
And we can't just act like, well, it's Elon who's doing everything. No, you have to have some degree of competency to know. My question, how do -- how do we know what Romania -- will we ever be able to know what Romania did?
ABDUL: Yeah, how do we find that out?
AIDALA: It's not that I --
MOSKOWITZ: I can't call my friends in Romania
UNKNOWN: What was the deal?
UNKNOWN: Because I don't know the answer to that.
AIDALA: No, no, I'll tell you the deal.
AIDALA: I will tell you the answer to that.
PHILLIP: Get Congress on it. How about that?
AIDALA: Would that ever come out? It had to do with their criminal justice system. They were charged, I think, five years ago, and there's been a lot of missteps in their criminal --
PHILLIP: I think it was two years ago. Yeah.
AIDALA: Well, maybe the investigation started a while ago. Maybe they were arrested two years ago. But there's been a lot of missteps and eventually, they got some sort of bail or bond to at least leave. I don't believe this charge has ever been dismissed.
However, Abby, we have to say, yes, Donald Trump has been a ladies' man, and yes, he said some vile things. He is not a proponent of punching women in the face the way these guys said, that they're property, shut them up.
HAQ: I get it, but, look --
AIDALA: I mean, he lives for his daughter, Ivanka.
PHILLIP: Hold on, hold on.
HAQ: We cannot -- we're splitting hairs here.
AIDALA: No, no, we're not splitting hairs about punching a woman in the face and shoving her around the neck.
PHILLIP: Listen, okay, Arthur. To your point, right, this is not to say, okay, Donald Trump endorses that specific language. However, any sane politician would say, two guys who have said these things publicly, let me have absolutely nothing to do with them. But that is not happening.
ABDUL: And he was asked about this in the press conference.
PHILLIP: I'm looking at a politician here, because am I right or wrong about that, that in a normal world, politicians are not clamoring to associate anything near what these guys are doing?
MOSKOWITZ: Well, I don't know if you've watched Congress lately. There's a couple. There's a couple.
PHILLIP: Okay. MOSKOWITZ: But look.
PHILLIP: To be fair, yes.
MOSKOWITZ: To be fair, no. I mean, it's surprising that this happened. This is a --today was not a good day, actually, for the administration, if you're looking at a couple of things that happened today. One was this Tate thing that happened today. The other was this question about, you know, do you regret calling him a dictator? And he was like, did I say that? Right. And the other thing was, if you look at the traffic online over the Epstein release, I have never seen the --
UNKNOWN: Oh, yeah. They're pissed.
MOSKOWITZ: -- left and the right come together in a moment on the debacle of what the Epstein --
AIDALA: I don't know what you guys are talking about. I mean.
HAQ: Well, here's the challenge with all of the misogyny floating around in the Trumpverse and the Tate world is that 53 percent of women still voted for men.
PHILLIP: Well, we'll find out. I hope we -- I hope we find out more about what happened here because I think the public deserves to know.
WOOD JR.: Is Romania that terrible that you just got to come back to America? I thought Romania was nice.
PHILLIP: If you're charged with it, they're charged with it. I don't think you want --
MOSKOWITZ: I don't know. Is Romania (inaudible) in the Riviera?
PHILLIP: All right guys, we got to leave it there. Coming up next, a child has died and dozens are sick in America's largest measles outbreak in decades. Now, R.F.K. Jr., who is now the nation's chief health officer, he won't personally endorse the vaccine. We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:47:14]
PHILLIP: Tonight, an outbreak and an omission. The measles is an entirely preventable disease. It is one that the United States already eradicated, but now a West Texas outbreak has killed a child. It's a deadly serious issue, and it came up in the president's first cabinet meeting, but with, of course, disinformation from R.F.K. Jr.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: We're watching it. We put out a post on it yesterday, and we're going to continue to follow it. Incidentally, there have been four measles outbreaks this year in this country last year that we're 16. So, it's not unusual. We have measles outbreaks every year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Now, Health and Human Services won't answer CNN's questions about if or when RFK will say two simple words, get vaccinated. It is amazing that we are talking about this.
AIDALA: Well, is what he said accurate? Were there 16 -- were there 16 outbreaks last year, and there's only four this year?
PHILLIP: There is.
AIDALA: I don't know.
PHILLIP: It has been 10 years since somebody has died from measles. And basically, for the last 25 years, measles has been eradicated in this country. And so far, we've had over 100 cases, which is way more than in previous years, for this time of the year. I mean, we are in February, February 28th.
UNKNOWN: But I don't think that was disinformation.
HAQ: The hospitalizations also, he did make a big mistake there. The hospitalizations said, oh, it's just precautionary. No, the children were not able to breathe. That's why they were brought to the hospital. And these are very easy, preventable, proven diseases, vaccines rather.
And the idea that, I mean, I'm a parent of two kids, one of them still needs to get her second shot for the MMR. I'm going to get that as soon as possible. But the challenge is that we're discrediting something that has actually been working in our society. When there's so many things that are broken, why -- why make healthcare scarier for people?
UNKNOWN: So, I think this happened.
PHILLIP: Why couldn't he just say in that moment, I urge all Americans to get vaccinated. Getting vaccinated is the surefire way to prevent kids from getting measles. That's it. Because that is it.
HAQ: Because he doesn't believe in this.
ABDUL: So, I think, I think the struggle for RFK is, RFK before he became HHS secretary versus the role that he plays now. I don't think that it is as important for RFK to say "get vaccinated". I think that is something that obviously kids -- kids get, you know, we all get the shots I forgot what time --
AIDALA: You can't go to school without it.
WOOD JR.: That's the only reason.
ABDUL: So those things, so those things --
PHILLIP: We used to not be able to go to school without it but many more parents are getting vaccines.
ABDUL: But I think the larger issue, though, is that we're seeing -- because I believe the person who died I know I think they were unvaccinated but until we deal with the fact that there were people stemming from COVID, all of the mistakes that were made around the vaccine and the information that we got.
[22:50:03]
And you're talking to a vaccinated Trump supporter.
PHILLIP: I don't think that this is just, first of all, especially when you're talking about R.F.K. Jr.
HAQ: Yeah.
PHILLIP: He personally is responsible for a good chunk of the misinformation around vaccines in general, and specifically measles. Just listen to this from his hearing just a few weeks ago.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KENNEDY, JR.: I support the measles vaccine. I support the polio vaccine. I will do nothing as HHS secretary that makes it difficult or discourages people from taking either of those drugs.
SEN. RON WYDEN (D) OREGON: Any -- anybody who believes that ought to look at the measles book you wrote saying parents have been misled into believing that measles is a deadly disease. That's not true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: I mean, he tried to paper over his actual history on this issue.
AIDALA: I mean, we all knew that President Obama was against gay marriage when he came in, and then he said his thoughts evolved, and then he was for it.
PHILLIP: This is not about gay marriage. This is about science.
MOSKOWITZ: Hold on. That was like a curveball from --
AIDALA: But it's true. People's attitudes evolved.
MOSKOWITZ: Obama? We're bringing up Obama?
AIDALA: Yeah, why not? But he was great president.
HAQ: Racism and science are not about belief. They're science.
MOSKOWITZ: First of all, I think the thing that came out in that hearing that was the clearest for me is that RFK's kids are all vaccinated. He vaccinated his kids and yet he's telling other parents, well, the science, we're relitigating stuff that shouldn't be relitigated. I don't disagree that there was a lot of stuff that came out of COVID that gave a lot of doubt. But that doubt should be forward looking.
We shouldn't be going back and looking at the flu vaccine. They canceled a hearing on that the other day. When the HHS wanted to put a statement out on the measles, whether people should get the vaccine, they couldn't even put a statement out. They sent a statement from the CDC instead.
PHILLIP: Roy, quick --
WOOD JR.: Yeah, I think that this is all about just undoing past policies, and I think that's what a lot of this administration is on. It's just, let's just reevaluate everything that's ever been done throughout the entire history of this country. And I think that being vaccinated is very important. I just don't know if RFK is ever going to openly say that until the numbers get beyond what he's talking about right now.
PHILLIP: And the truth is, it would actually be extremely powerful if he were to do that. He is one of the biggest anti-vaccine voices in the country. If he were to say to Americans, get the measles vaccine, that would have an impact. And he's not saying it. Then, panel is going to give us their nightcaps next. It's inspired by an amazing discovery at a thrift store. We'll explain that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:57:06]
PHILLIP: We're back and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap, TV memorabilia edition. A woman who resells fashion was looking at her local thrift store when she saw a beautiful wedding dress for $19. Well, turns out it's a Vera Wang. And turns out it's the model worn by Carrie Bradshaw in a photo shoot ahead of her ill-fated wedding in the "Sex and the City" series. You see it there? Okay, so you each have 30 seconds to tell us what piece of TV memorabilia you would want as a souvenir. Arthur?
AIDALA: So, when I was asked this in the green room, like the answer shot right out of my mouth. There was a show on in the 1970s, on Tuesday nights at eight o'clock, ABC. It was called "Happy Days". And the main guy was Arthur Fonzarelli, and you know my name is Arthur, and he was like, hey, Arthur, he was an Italian guy, and he was a cool guy. He was a tough guy, but you never saw him fight, and he always took care of his best friend, Richie.
HAQ: Keep your collar up like that, Arthur.
PHILLIP: It suits you.
AIDALA: And it is in the Smithsonian, so.
HAQ: "The Fonz".
AIDALA: "The Fonz".
HAQ: I knew "The Fonz". PHILLIP: Nayyera.
HAQ: "Alf", the "Alf" costume. Because at this point, you might as well throw aliens back into the mix.
PHILLIP: Why the heck not? Roy?
WOOD, JR.: I thought you like "Alf", the actual alien. I was like, OK, in uniform. I want the Sanford and Son truck. That's the piece of TV memorabilia I want. Lamont Sanford riding around in his daddy's car. Hands down, the biggest scrub to ever make it. Lamont Sanford lived with his daddy, drove his daddy's truck, and lived upstairs, and somehow still got women to come over to the house.
AIDALA: One of the best shows of all time.
WOOD JR.: Greatest scrub of all time.
PHILLIP: Go ahead.
MOSKOWITZ: I'd love to say something from Seinfeld or Curb Your Enthusiasm, but I couldn't help myself. The most iconic thing ever on television was the chair that Donald Trump sat in the boardroom on "The Apprentice". Most iconic, most important. He's a big fan of the show.
PHILLIP: The way you said it sounded like you were doing a little bit of a Trump impression. He's a big fan of the show, so just in case he's watching, best chair ever.
PHILLIP: Okay, that's not what I expected you to say at all. Okay. All right, go ahead.
ABDUL: So, the best thing, the thing, that I would want is Julia Child's oven. If you guys haven't seen it, you know, she used to do the shows.
PHILLIP: Yes.
ABDUL: I'm a big fan of Julia Child. I've made her beef bouillon, many, many times.
PHILLIP: That's a really expensive piece of memorabilia.
ABDUL: It is an expensive piece of memorabilia. It's been in the Smithsonian Museum, but I would love that.
AIDALA: Malik, who knew?
ABDUL: I'm a cook. I like to cook.
PHILLIP: Yeah, I would want that too, to be honest. I want a giant chocolate bar from "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory". You know, I've always, as a kid, I always wanted to just take a chocolate bar and just like bite into it like they did.
AIDALA: That was the first movie I ever saw. G Wilder was good.
PHILLIP: Okay, Roy, we got 30 seconds.
[23:00:00]
"Have I Got News For You" this Saturday.
WOOD JR.: Yes.
PHILLIP: What are we in for?
WOOD JR.: Yes, we have Rep. Jasmine Crockett on the show. So, we want everybody to come and check it out. See you on Max and Saturday night on the network.
PHILLIP: Okay, that's going to be --
WOOD JR.: I'm going to ask her about Elon, too, see if she can say something. She can cuss and I can't.
MOSKOWITZ: A lot of bleeping.
PHILLIP: Yeah, you do want to tune into that one. Thank you very much, everyone. Thanks for watching "NewsNight". "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
