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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump Delivers Unprecedented Political Speech At DOJ; Trump Says Media Reporting Critical Of Him Is Illegal; Democrats In Civil War Over Strategy In New Trump Era; ACLU Releases New Video Shot By Wife Of Activist Mahmoud Khalil; V.P. Vance Gets Booed At The National Symphony Orchestra; SpaceX Mission On Its Way International Space Station. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired March 14, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, the president promises to put the DOJ on a road to perdition in a speech that reads like a Truth Social rant.
Plus, family matters spill outside the Democratic family about Chuck Schumer's leadership and refuse to take care of their own.
Also, no dissent allowed. The Trump administration contemplates if protest can count as supporting terror, while thinking through how to tell schools what they can and cannot teach.
And jeers for J.D. Vance at the Kennedy Center spark MAGA lectures about tolerance.
Live at the table, Chuck Rocha, Melik Abdul, Bryan Lanza, Tara Setmayer and Toure. Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP (on camera): Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York.
Let's get right to what America is talking about, playing the hits. Tonight, Donald Trump is putting his best selling grievances for the country. And he's promising to purge his own Justice Department and prosecute the media. He is also pledging to back the boys in blue, full stop, no exceptions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We're joined today by dozens of police officers, sheriffs, and sheriffs deputies from all across the country. My message to these law enforcement heroes is simple. With me in the White House, you once again have a president who will always have your back, will always have your back.
On day one, I signed an executive order directing the attorney general to ensure that anyone who murders a police officer immediately, with as fast a trial as we could have, gets the death penalty. (END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: But always have your back did not apply to Capitol Police officers who fought off the mob on January 6th. And remember, it wasn't that long ago that Trump branded law enforcement with these labels.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The FBI and the Justice Department have become vicious monsters controlled by radical left scoundrels, lawyers, and the media who tell them what to do.
The gravest threats to our civilization are not from abroad but from within. None is greater than the weaponization of the justice system the FBI and the DOJ.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Joining us in our fifth seat at the table, Donte Mills. He's a civil and criminal attorney and a law professor at Temple University.
Donte the thing that really struck people about this speech was just how typical of a Trump speech it was. It could have been given from a campaign podium, but it was given at the Department of Justice, and particularly as we played there after a couple of years of him really maligning the FBI in particular and the DOJ in pretty broad terms. I mean, I know he's mad about the cases that involved him, but those accusations against them were broad.
DONTE MILLS, NATIONAL TRIAL ATTORNEY: This is scary. And we have to put it on the news, right, no Cardi (ph). What we're talking about here is weaponizing the justice system. What he's doing is saying I want these specific results, I don't care how you get there. And we can't have that in our country. He's talking about saying if somebody kills a police officer instantly give them the death sentence fastest trial as possible. There may be consequences that has to happen, but we want to get things right. We have to get things right, especially if you're taking someone's life.
So, to say that things have to happen because you want a specific result so you're willing to forego the process is a problem. And this is coming from one who complained that the process was used or the Justice Department was weaponized against him. Now, he's turning it on college students. He's turning it on immigrants. He's turning it on anyone that doesn't align with his message, and that's a huge problem.
PHILLIP: Bryan, if you sympathize with Trump, as I know that you do, and feeling that he was unfairly targeted, why would he then turn around and put himself, a partisan figure, inside the Justice Department and talk about the enemies that he wants to go after and all of this stuff? Why not say, I'm getting politics out of this thing, I'm getting out of this thing?
BRYAN LANZA, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Because it's too late. I mean, politics has already infected the Justice Department.
PHILLIP: So, he's doubling down on it?
LANZA: He's not doubling down. He's following the current trend. And he's -- you know, he's saying, in order for me to clear this out, you know, we've had four years of a disruptive partisan Justice Department.
[22:05:00]
In order for me to clear this out, there are some of the tactics that the previous administration did that I need to do. But the ultimate goal is to take the politics out of the Justice Department.
What he's also said in this clip is that he supports the beat cops. And those are the ones that the frontline everyday put their lives at risk, more and more than anybody else in the justice system. And that's nothing wrong with saying, hey, if you're going to take out -- if you're going to kill one of these people, you know, you shouldn't have a 20-year process that allows you to live while that family suffers.
PHILLIP: But then why did he pardon people who assaulted Capitol Police officers?
LANZA: Listen, I think he -- I think in his mind, he separates January 6th officers from the beat cops.
PHILLIP: Well, that makes no sense, right?
LANZA: I'm just telling you where he is.
PHILLIP: I mean, it just doesn't make any sense. You cannot separate out -- I mean, they were doing their jobs on that day. They were assaulted. And they were -- now they're being harassed by the people that Trump pardoned.
TARA SETMAYER, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, THE SENECA PROJECT: Yes, it's the world turned upside down. And, you know, there's no rational, rationalization to Donald Trump saying one thing about beat cops, but then treating the Capitol Police officers and the Metro Police officers that defended our democracy that day as enemies and pardoning the domestic terrorists that attacked them. It doesn't square.
And so the hypocrisy there is infuriating and people can see right through that. There's something else there. It's because Donald Trump doesn't believe in due process. He doesn't care about what the Constitution says or what our justice system is set up for because he's got a grievance. So, it's, you know, rules for me -- thee, but not for me, and that's not the way our system works. And we cannot normalize this picking and cherry-picking and choosing when he wants to apply the law and when he doesn't.
He also said that he was the chief law enforcement officer in the country right there in that speech, which should alarm everyone. No, he's not. Our courts are the ones who decide the law, not the president of the United States.
MILLS: If I could just remind everybody, Donald Trump is the same person who -- there were children in New York who he took out a full page ad to say they needed to get the death penalty because they were convicted, because they were charged with something and it turns out they did not do it. So, he didn't learn his lesson that you are not supposed to go around the rules because you feel -- because you have an opinion. That's not how it works.
CHUCK ROCHA, POD CO-HOST, THE LATINO VOTE: I think folks are used to Donald Trump doing things that are not standard or protocol and my Republican friends would say that's what America voted for. But I would remind everybody here that half of the country voted for Donald Trump and half the country voted for somebody else. That can be the same as anyone on the battleground states and I'm here to say that he is in fact the president. That's not that hard to do for my Republican friends sometimes.
But I'll say what struck me today was, is him standing in the FBI. And I know Obama stood in the FBI and did the same thing, but it seems like when you start thinking about all the things that stacked on each other as a political consultant, it's not just one thing, but I think America is tired of all the things.
PHILLIP: Can I play one more thing that he said? This is when he was talking about the media. Again, no surprise that Trump is attacking the media, but listen to what he said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And I believe that CNN and MSDNC, who literally write 97.6 percent bad about me are political arms of the Democrat Party. And in my opinion, they're really corrupt and they're illegal. What they do is illegal.
These networks and these newspapers are really no different than a highly paid political operative. And it has to stop. It has to be illegal. It's influencing judges. And it's really changing law. And it just cannot be legal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: It has to be illegal.
MELIK ABDUL, RADIO HOST AND GOP POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Yes. So, I think you said at the beginning, and it's right, you know, this is a typical speech of Donald Trump. There are a lot of rhetorical flourishes. There may be some embellishments here and there that Donald Trump does.
But I think the larger thing that Donald Trump is talking about, and that his attacks on the media, this isn't something that's new at all. Donald Trump has been doing this for a while, and I don't think that it's just limited to CNN.
He does have a point. Many people, and I think that's what Donald Trump is articulating, many people feel, whether it's CNN or Fox News or MSNBC, that they are essentially the mouthpieces for a particular political party.
PHILLIP: I think the part that's not typical, Donald Trump can say what he wants about the media. And I think it's actually totally fine for him to feel that his treatment by the media is unfair. Democrats have felt like Fox was unfair to them. That's normal. The part that's not normal is the part where he says, what they're doing is illegal. They write bad things about me and it's illegal. It has to be illegal.
I mean, I get that words don't matter in Trump, but they actually do matter. He's the president of the United States.
MILLS: He's the president of the United States who has his people that we know will follow his instructions in the Justice Department. He handpicked those people that will not say no to him. So, if he says, here's what I think should be illegal, go find a way to make it illegal and to punish these people, it's going to happen. And it's all fine and dandy for the Republicans or one side of the country until he takes up an issue that they don't agree with. And now it's turned on them and now they're in the crosshairs.
SETMAYER: Here's the thing, like are we really having this conversation --
[22:10:01]
PHILLIP: Yes, we are.
SETMAYER: -- that we're saying that what Donald Trump just said as the president of the United States standing there in the Department of Justice saying that freedom of speech and the freedom of the press and all that is illegal? This is insanity. This is the president of the United States where we have a bill of rights where there's the freedom of the press, where we are -- our founding fathers wanted to make sure that you had the freedom to be able to report without the government coming down on you and fear of being prosecuted for that. This is 2025. This is not 1789 when you had the Alien and Sedition Acts and all of that that were used against people who were critical of the government. Are we going back there? Could you imagine, would you sit here and say it was just a typical stump speech if Barack Obama, or President Biden, or President Clinton ever said the things that Donald Trump just said in the --
ABDUL: It wouldn't be a typical speech for him. But it would be a typical speech for him.
But if you talk about it, and we shouldn't ignore the point that Donald Trump was making about the weaponization of the Justice Department.
SETMAYER: Are you serious? Come on.
ABDUL: Well, I'm serious because I'm saying it. I'm serious because I'm saying it. Because many of us saw, during the Biden administration, a number of things that happened. Think of the Hurr report. Many people saw the Hurr report, and they said, well, Biden was just well meaning. Think of the Russia collusion narrative. The fact that many people were going around, many people were going around saying that Donald Trump colluded with Russia to steal the information about the 2016 election. It simply wasn't true. 51 intelligence officers signed on to a letter saying that the --
SETMAYER: Donald Trump has been a hundred times used by the Department of Justice to weaponize against his enemies.
PHILLIP: Melik, let's just take what you're saying at face value, okay? You mentioned the Hurr report. The Hurr report was widely accepted to be incredibly devastating to President Biden. They were so mad about it, they tried to get him to not release it. That was the Biden Justice Department releasing a critical report about the president, same Biden Justice Department the prosecuted, the same Biden Justice Department who prosecuted his son.
LANZA: But it's also the Justice Biden Department saying that he is too old, too decrepit that he couldn't be charged. Yes, that's what the report was. He was well mean, he was well mean. Look, he lost --
MILLS: And you can't be that outrageous, say the justice system was used against Donald Trump, but not be outraged when he's doing the exact same thing. You have to acknowledge that.
ABDUL: Well, I'm not outraged at all. I'm giving you an analysis of the politics of this. I'm not outraged by any of this at all. I accept that this is something that Donald Trump has done many times before, but I think it's pretty hypocritical for people to now be concerned about the weaponization of the Justice Department or even concerned about police officers, because we know, prior to January 6, there was no love for police officers out there and we saw that during the Black Lives Matter movement of 2020.
PHILLIP: Are you concerned about weaponization or not?
ABDUL: I absolutely am.
PHILLIP: So, if you are concerned about weaponization, you would be upset about it if it happened to Trump or if Trump was doing it, correct?
ABDUL: And you know, I've been on this show many times before, I don't have a problem being critical of Donald Trump. I don't think that Donald Trump should have been at the Department of Justice talking about news outlets being illegal or any of that.
PHILLIP: Are you as offended by Donald Trump wanting to weaponize the DOJ as you are about allegedly Joe Biden weaponizing the DOJ?
ABDUL: No. The question isn't am I as offended. I wasn't offended when Joe Biden did it. It was just something the politics of the day, it's something that we talk about. But the fact that -- but you can't tell me what it is that I should have said. I said that I didn't make a big deal about it when Joe Biden did it, and I'm not going to make a big deal about it when Donald Trump did it despite my -- despite how it may be wrong.
SETMAYER: Utilize it, not weaponize the Department of Justice, let's just be clear here.
ABDUL: Joe Biden's administration weaponized the Department of Justice. We don't know what Donald Trump did because we haven't even gotten there yet. We haven't even gotten there yet.
MILLS: It is a slippery slope.
ABDUL: It is a slippery and it's hypocrisy on both sides.
PHILLIP: Melik and Tara, please stop talking for just a second because we can't all hear you when you're talking at the same time.
Donte, I will give you the last word because you're with us for this segment. Go ahead.
MILLS: Let's not choose who was worse or better in weaponizing the justice system. If it happens, it's wrong. It's a slippery slope that we have to call out when we see it. We're on this platform right here. We have an opportunity to say, guys, we can't do this. We have to pay attention to what's going on and we have to stop this. Because if we don't, there will be a situation where I can't say what I believe in if you disagree with it or I'll be punished, and that's not what America is, it's not what America should be. So, we should call it out no matter who's doing it, and it's happening right now.
ABDUL: I agree with that. We just don't do it though.
PHILLIP: Donte Mills, thank you very much for joining us for that. Everyone else, hang tight.
Coming up next, a Democratic civil war suddenly erupts and the knives are out for Chuck Schumer after he joins Republicans to avert a shutdown. Another special guest is going to join us in our fifth seat.
Plus, the Trump administration not only wants to prosecute college protesters but they are now trying to oversee college courses.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:15:00]
PHILLIP: What are Democrats doing? It's a question a lot of people have, including Democrats. And the complaining about the leadership has grown from quiet, behind closed doors murmurs, to loud, very public bickering. It's so loud, in fact, that Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader in the Senate and the party elder, has to say things like this after he joined Republicans to avert a government shutdown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): My job as leader is to lead the party. And if there's going to be danger in the near future, to protect the party. And I'm proud I did it. I knew I did the right thing. And I knew there'd be some disagreements.
[22:20:00]
That's how it always is. I think I have the overwhelming support of my caucus and so many of the members thanked me and said, you did what you thought was courageous.
My caucus and I are in sync and everyone knew what I was doing and respected it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: The old maxim in politics is when you're explaining, you're losing, but it's also true that when you have to say that you're on the same page, you're really not on the same page.
The evidence of the latter is pretty much everywhere, like this reporting from CNN about Senator Michael Bennet, who erupted, erupted during a meeting telling his caucus this week they have to, quote -- they have, quote, no strategy and no plan and no message on the spending bill, or the top Democrat in the House, Hakeem Jeffries, holding onto a life raft.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Senator Chuck Schumer from your state, he includes a different view of this than you. He is not saying let's go back to the negotiating table. He's saying let's take this vote. So, do you -- have you lost confidence in him the fact that you guys see this so differently?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Next question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Or this letter signed by 60 House Democrats scolding Schumer's plan to go along -- to get along with Republicans on this spending bill.
Democrats, yes, they are in disarray. But the Republican president, he's just fine watching Schumer and his party fight each other.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I have great respect, by the way, for what Schumer did today. He went out and he said that they have to vote with the Republicans because it's the right thing to do. I couldn't believe what I heard. But, you know, I think he's going to get some credit for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Even Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi put out a statement, a little sideswipe here, saying that they should listen to people like Rosa DeLauro and Patty Murray who have presented a case that we must have a better choice, a four-week funding extension to keep the government open and negotiate a bipartisan deal. Listen to the women, for the people.
But I have to ask this question, wasn't Schumer right, at the end of the day, that a shutdown would have been politically disastrous for Democrats?
SETMAYER: No.
PHILLIP: And practically disastrous?
TOURE, SUBSTRACK AUTHOR, CULTURE FRIES BY TOURE: For Democrats? Why for Democrats? We don't run the country! The Republicans run the country.
LANZA: You're shutting it down.
TOURE: No. We? No. This -- the grassroots is furious, right? Most of the caucus is furious. I never before -- my parents were Democrats. I've been a Democrat my entire life. Never before did I say, I should leave this party, because if democracy is at risk, and you had no idea what to do, and you have no plan, and even now at this moment, you know nothing of what to do, and you're capitulating to this, this is disgusting.
PHILLIP: Are you thinking about leaving the Democratic Party? Is that what you're saying?
TOURE: Yes. Yes. Me, personally, yes. I'm not an elected official, but I have always voted with the Democrats.
PHILLIP: Over this issue?
TOURE: Yes, over the inability to figure out what to do in the face of fascism and the rise of Trump.
PHILLIP: I hear you on that. The inability to have a plan is absolutely a problem, right? But I'm really questioning, what is the plan after the shutdown happens? Because when a shutdown happens, people don't get paid. And this is not exactly an administration that wants to keep the government open. They actually want the thing to be shut down.
SETMAYER: Yes, but here's the thing, and I'm not a Democrat, never was. I was a lifelong Republican and quit the party over Donald Trump because he is a, you know, someone who doesn't respect the Constitution and is trying to rule like a king. So -- but, look, I was part of the Tea Party movement. I watched what happened and how Republicans were a resistance opposition party when Democrats ran everything. And watching this happen now as someone who's an independent that's pro-democracy, that I guess you can say caucuses with the Democrats now, it is very frustrating.
When you don't have a leader and there's no unification in a message, it hurts the grassroots and the troops that you need. Could you imagine if, oh, I don't know, during World War II, and you saw what was happening with the bombs over London, and then, you know, it was just like, oh, well, you know, Churchill's just going to say we're going to capitulate now, because, well, what are we going to do about it? This is not the way you lead.
What happens is that the Republicans who are in charge, they have to explain why workers aren't getting paid. They need to explain why they can't run the government. And the Democrats need to say, we were fighting for you. It's not -- they're in charge. And show that people are being fought for.
I'm watching what's happening, and when you have a demoralized base, you're never going to lead an opposition. If you don't have the chutzpah, if you don't have the intestinal fortitude to lead, then get the hell out of the way, Chuck Schumer, and let the people who are willing to fight for their constituents lead the party. This is not the way to win.
PHILLIP: Okay, she makes a compelling case that this is a leadership issue.
SETMAYER: 100 percent.
PHILLIP: And I get that. Chuck?
ROCHA: Look, as the Democrat who gets Democrats elected at this table with all due respect to all of my friends, there's a lot going on all at the same time. And stay with the old Mexican redneck, I'll talk slowly for everybody, is that when you're not in charge of jackass, you've got to do something.
[22:25:03]
And to your point, there's a lot of people that fear you like you feel about this party right now. And as you go through race after race after race, there was a whole bunch of people that voted for Donald Trump. Democrats first have to realize that and understand why they voted for Donald Trump.
And then they should realize, what does it mean to actually fight? Democrats have been in charge for a long time, some of the same people. I ain't got here to throw hate at nobody, but the anxiety is very real in America right now, and that's why Donald Trump was elected.
PHILLIP: So, do you think they should have stopped this thing and shut the government down? That is really the question.
ROCHA: As the political consultant here --
TOURE: It's not Dems shutting the government down.
(CROSSTALKS)
TOURE: That's what the Republicans would have said.
PHILLIP: Let me rephrase, okay? The government would have shut down if there were not enough votes, if Democrats had not cast this vote. And that was a consequence of this. Was that an appropriate consequence in order to do something, which is what the base -- ROCHA: You saw two things happen at the same time. You saw Schumer said, I'm going to take these bullets for everybody. It may cost me my leadership position.
SETMAYER: It should cost him his leadership position.
ROCHA: And Democrats feel just like this right here throughout the country. We need them to show up in a midterm election. So, I think --
SETMAYER: I'm not a Democrat, though. I'm an independent.
ROCHA: That's right. I'm talking about winning an election.
SETMAYER: I know. And in order to win elections in 2026, if we actually have them, you have to have people that are motivated to vote for people who will fight for them.
TOURE: The capitulation that she's talking about is not part of fighting. That's not what the grassroots want. That's not going to save our democracy. Let them deal with the government that they shut down.
PHILLIP: But the model is the Tea Party, Freedom Caucus model of resistance, right?
SETMAYER: Yes. You didn't even realize they were in the resistance.
PHILLIP: I just want to -- I'm not -- listen, I'm not trying to advocate for one position or another. I'm just putting on the table what happens next, okay. What happens on the next day after that happens and there's a shutdown?
LANZA: People don't get paid.
ABDUL: To piggyback off of what Chuck said, the reality is that Democrats --
ROCHA: Don't give me fired by the Democrats then.
ABDUL: Democrats, their options were simply limited. Republicans control not just the White House, they control the Senate, and they control the House. So, what could they do other than say, well, we're not going to play ball and shut the government down? I think that Chuck Schumer did the right thing. I am consistently, 100 percent of the time, it doesn't matter if it's a Democrat or a Republican in the White House, I will always say that the government should never shut down. We pay members of Congress $180,000 a year. And unlike those people who may get a delay check and if you work with a contractor, you probably won't get paid at all if the government shut down. There is no circumstance where Democrats, Republicans should shut the government down. Chuck Schumer did exactly what he needed to do to keep the government open. People are not going to be happy. That's how that works.
SETMAYER: First of all, the government is being decapitated and dismantled with hundreds of thousands of people -- ABDUL: Okay. But it was facing a shutdown. It was facing a shutdown.
SETMAYER: Hundreds of thousands of people are being fired illegally right now by Republicans and by an unelected South African billionaire donor to Donald Trump.
ABDUL: What does that have to do with South Africa? What does South Africa have to do with anything?
SETMAYER: Anyway, because that's where he's from and he doesn't believe in our democracy. So, that's the problem. So, you're so worried about illegal immigrants taking jobs, well, there you got where the immigrants taking jobs right now.
ABDUL: Well, who is you? I haven't said anything about illegal immigrants.
SETMAYER: But, anyway, the government is being shut down right now as we speak with all of our --
ABDUL: The government is not being shut down.
SETMAYER: Oh, no? Ask the Department of Education.
TOURE: The democracy is being shut down. That's what she said.
SETMAYER: Well, ask the Department of Education folks who just got half of them fired. Ask the IRS folks who got fired. Ask the people in OPM who got fired.
LANZA: Ask Mahmoud Khalil.
SETMAYER: Ask the people in the Department of --
ABDUL: That's not the same as shutting the government down, which is what you seem as if you wanted the government to do. You want the government to shut down because you people, you wanted the government to shut down, and I'm happy the government isn't shutting down.
PHILLIP: Tara, please stop for just a second, because we -- you know, I said it like three times already. We can't all talk at the same time, but I just want to draw attention to Bryan Lanza's face right now because he is in heaven.
But, Bryan, I do expect that the next time that Republicans are in the minority, which will happen at some point, and when we get to this point, which we will, probably, because Republicans have repeatedly shut down the government.
LANZA: 100 percent, it's happened before.
PHILLIP: You will say that the right thing to do is to not shut the government down, because this has happened before, because Republicans have brought the country to the end.
LANZA: Listen, what I will say definitively, it's never right to shut down the government. It's never right to play games with the debts, with the debt limit things. You have to keep functioning. If you want people to believe that Washington is working, you have to make sure that's operating.
Chuck Schumer did, you know, a courageous thing. He knew he was going to get beat up.
TOURE: It's the Republicans position that we're going through this that we shouldn't shut down the government. This was the Republican shut down.
(CROSSTALKS)
TOURE: Republicans are in control of Congress. How could it be a Democratic shutdown?
ABDUL: Republicans are always blamed for a shutdown. They were blamed for a shutdown when Biden was in office. They were blamed for a shutdown when Trump was in office. This just happens all the time.
[22:30:00]
But this would have been a Democratic shutdown --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Okay, guys -- all right, guys --
SETMAYER: This is the conversation because Democrats failed to message this. But somehow it's Democrats' fault.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Melik, Melik, it's not just random blame being assigned, okay, for those previous shutdowns. In those cases that you're talking about, Republicans said we will not fund the government. They actually explicitly said that. We will not fund the government unless you get what we --
ABDUL: No. We're forgetting Nancy Pelosi.
PHILLIP: No. No.
ABDUL: Well, remember the 2018 shutdown?
PHILLIP: Melik.
ABDUL: Donald Trump wanted to get his border wall funding and Nancy Pelosi said we will not give you a cent --
PHILLIP: Okay, Melik. Listen.
ABDUL: -- so, our border wall. And then she said, I will shut the government down.
PHILLIP: -- I was -- I was there. No, no. I was there covering that. ABDUL: And that's what Donald Trump did. Donald Trump shut the government down when he was president.
PHILLIP: There were deals on the table that Donald Trump rejected --
SETMAYER: That's correct.
PHILLIP: -- on multiple occasions, okay? Let's not rewrite history at the scene. Okay.
ABDUL: That's not rewriting history. That's what happened.
PHILLIP: Next for us, the Trump administration is now demanding to oversee Columbia University's courses in a direct attack on academic freedom. We'll debate that. Plus, Trump's Kennedy Center president responds to J.D. Vance getting booed from the audience and urges, quote, "diversity and inclusion". Yes. We're talking about DEI there. We'll talk about it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:35:52]
Tonight, a glimpse at the worst day of Noor Abdallah's life. Captured on cell phone video, Abdallah is the married -- is the wife of Mahmoud Khalil, the activist at Columbia University and a graduate who ICE agents arrested this week.
He hasn't been charged with anything, at least not yet, but he is in the Trump administration custody and a target for helping organize anti- Israel protests. Now, the ACLU is releasing this new video shot by Abdullah that shows the very moment that federal agents took her husband away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: What? You're going to be under arrest. So, turn around. Turn around. Turn around.
NOOR ABDALLAH, WIFE OF MAHMPUD KHALIL: Okay. Let's not resist. Okay, he's not resisiting. He's giving me his phone. Okay? He's not -- I understand. He's not resisting. Like -- and what should I do? I don't know. Can -- can we get a name, please, of -- of can we get your name?
UNKNOWN: Stay back.
ABDALLAH: I understand. The lawyer's asking for your name.
UNKNOWN: Go back please. Go over there.
UNKNOWN: We don't give our names. He'll be taking to immigration custody at 26 Federal Plaza.
ABDALLAH: Can you -- can you please specify what agency is taking him, please? Excuse me. There -- nobody --they're not talking to me. I don't know. (END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: The Trump administration is also making big demands of Columbia University saying if they like their federal funding, they'll have to overhaul the department that oversees Middle East, South Asian and African studies.
In addition to major changes to student discipline and admissions rules, this is, the case of Mahmoud Khalil is, on the free speech front, going to be very interesting to watch play out. But what Trump is doing when it comes to Columbia's curriculum is also something that we have never seen.
TOURE: Yeah. This is what you do in a dictatorship that you tell them what you can teach the people. This is frightening and disgusting. This -- if this went through, this would completely ruin one of the great institutions in America because who would want to go there after he destroys?
And how precise the Asian, you said, the African and the Middle Eastern departments -- how interesting that he is targeting those departments? Again, another attack on people of color. It's just constant with these people. It's all about white supremacy.
ROCHA: You know, we will take it back to the beginning of the top of the show when we talked about the FBI and weaponization. When we did let's go back to the politics of all of this. When folks went to vote, this is not what they voted for, but they voted for cheaper prices, other things to get easier in their life and there's one story after another.
One story is not going to change this. But one story building off of another, does start to have a narrative of what you're talking about folks like, oh, maybe them, Democrats, was right about democracy.
LANZA: To say, guys, we -- we must have missed what happened last summer, these protests on these universities. The violence, the disrespect. People were paying hard earned money to go to these universities and thugs shut it down.
And what the Trump administration is saying is, like, it is a privilege to be in the United States. You have a visa. You -- you're expected to behave a certain way. You can't be disruptive at universities. You can't --
UNKNOWN: You can't protest in America?
LANZA: I said you can't be disruptive in universities when kids are trying to take --
SETMAYER: Yeah, but why --
PHILLIP: But actually --
[CROSSTALK] LANZA: I'm not talking about disrupting student life. You're shutting down schools --
TOURE: You're talking about protesters. You're not talking about the shutting down of teaching? What does it have to do with teaching in university?
LANZA: -- shutdown schools --
PHILLIP: Bryan --
TOURE: But what does that have to do with teaching?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Bryan, there have been protests --
UNKNOWN: Of course, they did. They shut down schools.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: -- for decades, okay? Going all the way back to the 1960s.
LANZA: And it's broken.
PHILLIP: That has a long history --
LANZA: And it's broken.
PHILLIP: -- anti-war protests. All kinds of protests.
LANZA: It's broken and that's what America is about. Sorry to inform you of that.
PHILLIP: Seriously, on this front, okay? You know, we've talked earlier this week about Malcolm Khalil, but I do want to spend some time here on the curriculum of it all. Why is the government telling schools what they can and cannot teach?
LANZA: Because clearly the Trump administration, the Department of Education sees that what is being taught in your universities is corrosive to the American culture.
TOURE: Oh my God.
PHILLIP: Why did they not --
TOURE: I can't believe you would say that with a straight face.
PHILLIP: Why did they not --
TOURE: Are you kidding?
LANZA: I'm not kidding. I'd repeat it. What's that?
PHILLIP: Why did they not provide proof of that? LANZA: Yeah. They -- all they have to do is just provide the videos
from this last summer that last --
SETMAYER: That is --
TOURE: Wow.
PHILLIP: That's not proof of anything.
[22:40:00]
SETMAYER: Okay, wait a minute.
PHILLIP: I mean, there's a letter here and --
LANZA: Majority would agree with me than with you guys on this.
PHILLIP: It basically makes contingent --it makes contingent $400 million of federal funding to the university --
LANZA: Taxpayer money.
PHILLIP: -- on a whole --
LANZA: It's not just right. It's taxpayer money we're talking about.
PHILLIP: Absolutely.
LANZA: Yes.
PHILLIP: Taxpayer money on a whole host of things that are the domain of a private institution. I'm -- I'm not understanding what --
LANZA: I don't feel bad. I don't feel bad for Columbia. They did this to themselves.
PHILLIP: It's not about feeling bad. I'm talking about the legality of it all.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I can't understand it.
UNKNOWN: Unbelievable.
SETMAYER: First of all, I remember when -- when conservatives used to not be okay with the government telling private institutions what they can and cannot teach.
LANZA: They don't have to take the money.
SETMAYER: And so, I remember that. And so, it's -- it's interesting to me.
LANZA: They don't have to take taxpayer money. They don't have to -- SETMAYER: -- the hypocrisy here with this. It's okay now when it's your agenda. This is very scary. I don't agree with what happened on those campuses. I was very much on the other side I thought what was going on was awful.
And -- but, however, Columbia and a multitude of other universities that Donald Trump is threatening, they are -- they have a right to have their own curriculums. And for him to be like a Mafioso boss saying, if you don't do what we want, we're going to withhold the money is crazy. They're withholding money from PhD programs. They're withholding money from --
LANZA: The Biden administration withheld money from schools during -- during his tenure who were --
SETMAYER: Okay, they did not threaten --
(CROSSTALK)
TOURE: Wow. You know, both sides --
(CROSSTALK)
TOURE: That's crazy.
SETMAYER: I know. "Whataboutism" is being seen.
PHILLIP: What are you talking about?
LANZA: You know, the Biden administration set up rules to universities and says that if you don't honor the way we want you to do with transgender sports, we are withholding your money.
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: Transgender sports -- oh, my God. I'm back to this again. Oh, my God.
LANZA: By the way, this government -- government holds money from universities all the time because --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Okay, so you're talking about like probably a title nine situation, is that what you're saying?
LANZA: I'm talking about the federal government. Biden administration withholding money from universities because it didn't achieve a policy goal that they wanted to do. That's what I'm saying.
PHILLIP: But in this particular case, the Trump administration -- the Trump administration is saying, you must sanction an entire department in a university. You have to force people to not wear masks, at the university. You have to do all kinds of other things, punish -- punish students in a particular way. Otherwise, all of your funding as a research institution is being held up, being held hostage. ABDUL: Yeah. So, this for me, this is too much of big government. I
don't like the idea that any government, whether it's Republican or Democrat, telling a school what you can and cannot teach.
But I think we should go back to the gentleman who was arrested and notice as we're talking about this, these protests around the country, we're not talking about any American citizen who was arrested or being detained. We're talking about somebody who is a guest in this country.
UNKNOWN: He's permanent resident. He's not a guest. He's married to a citizen. That's not a guest.
ABDUL: He is a guest in this country and that's why --
TOURE: A guest goes home. A permanent, legal resident does not go home.
ABDUL: He is a guest --
TOURE: This is his home.
ABDUL: -- which is why the Secretary of State --
PHILLIP: Well, you know --
ABDUL: -- that here is a reason that Michael Rubio was able to --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Well, you know, we will, we wilI actually, I mean, this is going to be -- this is going to be very significant, actually, what you're pointing out here, because I think a lot of people have said that it was a mistake for the Trump administration to target a green card holder because --
SETMAYER: Absolutely.
PHILLIP: -- the legal protections for green card holders is not the same as a student visa. And maybe they didn't know that he had a green card because they didn't dig that deep into it. But that's going to be really significant. It is not the same to be a visa holder and a green card holder in this country, and the courts will decide what happens with this case.
LANZA: And the taxpayer.
SETMAYER: That's correct.
PHILLIP: Well, that, as well. Coming up next, Trump handpicked his chair for the Kennedy Center, and he calls diversity a strength now after the vice president got booed there last night. We'll show you the video and discuss next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:48:17] PHILLIP: J.D. Vance went to see the National Symphony Orchestra, but instead, he got a course.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEEP)
(BOOING)
(BEEP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Vance made the orchestra and the crowd sit and wait for his arrival for about 20 minutes, but the frustration probably has as much to do with that as it does Trump's overhaul of the Kennedy Center. The new loyalist maestro of the organization, Ric Grenell, was none too happy about that reception. He called the crowd intolerant.
Quote, "As president, I take diversity and inclusion very seriously. I've met with many of you, he's writing to his staff here, and I love that we are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, agnostic, gay, straight, black, white, Hispanic and absolutely different. Intolerance toward people who are politically different is just as unacceptable as intolerance in other areas. Everyone is welcome at the Kennedy Center," he says.
ROCHA: Wait. If we're going to talk about art and culture, let me start. You all hang on one second. This is in my backyard. I live in Washington D.C. just like you do. Ebony Payne, my beautiful wife, takes me there all the time to get culture and to get art. She's hoping that I'll return from there and not talk like this anymore.
What I'm expecting any moment at this place is to be like having, monster truck pulls and a Kid Rock concert, and I could've saw that in Tyler, Texas at The Oil Palace.
[22:50:03]
TOURE: That was a good raise. You know, look. Tolerance is not about being tolerant of intolerance and hatred. That's not what we're talking about. And the notion that inclusion should include powerful white straight men and not what it's supposed to be including marginalized people is a complete turn about of the use of the term inclusion, and it's kind of disgusting.
PHILLIP: I mean, do you think he really means it though? I mean, this seems like trolling.
SETMAYER: This is absurd. It's absurd. And, as someone who grew up in the arts, whose mom was in the arts, who went to performing arts school, who goes to the Kennedy Center on a regular basis, who gives money well, used to, not anymore, gives money to the Kennedy Center, it breaks my heart to see that the Kennedy Center, which is a national treasure and a living memorial to JFK, is being sullied like this.
It is really so typical of authoritarian regimes. We've seen it in history to come in and take over the -- take over the arts and -- and put -- make it, remake it in their image and likeness and what they deem acceptable. Stalin did it. Pinochet did it. The Nazis did it. And now, Donald Trump is doing it.
And this is when you put people who are unserious like Ric Grenell and Dan Scavino, who was Donald Trump's freaking cat golf caddy at one point or something, these are the people that are now on the board of the Kennedy Center, and Donald Trump appoints himself the chairman, and then they turn around and talk about DEI intolerance? It's a joke. They think the American people are stupid. We see what's going on here.
LANZA: J.D. went there to go see --
SETMAYER: Deserved to get booed.
LANZA: -- the symphony. He's promoting the arts, which is his --
SETMAYER: Oh, oh, is he?
LANZA: -- presence there is there to promote the arts, which is --
SETMAYER: Come on.
LANZA: What every elementary school teacher wants for their kids.
SETMAYER: Well, don't let them be gay. Or what -- is he going to promote that?
LANZA: Ric Grenell is gay?
SETMAYER: Oh, I know he is. There's also a lot of self-hating people, so I don't care about that.
LANZA: So, here it is. So, there we go.
SETMAYER: J.D. Vance criticizes people.
ABDUL: I'll just jump in here. This is this is the first time the arts.
LANZA: That's not a bad thing.
ABDUL: This isn't the first time that the radical left, the resistance decided that they were going to do this. So, remember back when it was Mike --
(CROSSTALK)
ABDUL: So, I need to be able to finish my point. So, well, I'm if I'm able to finish it, I'll tell you. We remember what happened with it was, Pence at the time. He was booed here in New York City at the Hamilton.
This whole community, this is literally what they do, and that's why I was one of those who although I'm a patron of the Kennedy Center, I said that this is something that they need to do because I talked about -- on this show, I said that it had not been a welcoming space for conservatives. And we see now with the -- this intolerance --
SETMAYER: That's not true.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Let me just read this --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Let me read this text post from Ric Grenell because he says -- hang on a second. Hang on a second, guys. I'm talking now. Thank you. "It troubles me to see that so many in the audience appear to be white and intolerant of diverse political views. Diversity is our strength," he says. Let's -- I just want to remind you. Pete Hegseth also said, "diversity is our strength" is the dumbest phrase in military history.
SETMAYER: Are there literally any trace --
(CROSSTALK))
PHILLIP: Bryan, I think this is an elaborate troll, though.
SETMAYER: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SETMAYER: Literally erasing black people, women, Hispanic, from government websites.
PHILLIP: He wants to -- he wants to make it -- to turn the tables and show that it's --
UNKNOWN: That white people aren't accepted sometimes?
PHILLIP: White people aren't accepting of conservatives.
SETMAYER: Oh, my gosh.
PHILLIP: I guess is the point that that he's trying to make.
ABDUL: Well, if you're talking about white, liberal women.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP:
ROCHA: Get really worked up about this. If you look at what DOGE is doing, most of those cuts are coming in art and culture. And folks that are tuned in like you and other folks who love the arts know that, and I think that's the real reason for the boo because they didn't let that happen in their own community.
SETMAYER: It's bigger than that, though. They're literally erasing black people, women, Hispanics --
UNKNOWN: At the Kennedy Center?
SETMAYER: No, across the entire government, thanks to Donald Trump. They all -- they even erased the history of blacks, women, Hispanics at Arlington Cemetery. So, they need to stand up for that.
PHILLIP: We got to go. Everyone, thank you very much for all of that. Coming up for us, SpaceX mission is on its way to the International Space Station. It'll bring back two astronauts who have spent ten months in space. Neil deGrasse Tyson will explain what's in store for them. That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:58:52]
PHILLIP: The comedians of "Have I Got News For You" are back, and they have some thoughts on Trump's economic plan. And we make a special appearance, too. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROY WOOD, JR., COMEDIAN: Which of Trump's economic policies are being blamed for the current doom and gloom?
AMBER RUFFIN, COMEDIAN: Oh, the part where he and his rich little friends take all our money?
WOOD JR.: No. That's what happens. But what was the policy that, like, how did how did you --
MICHAEL IAN BLACK, COMEDIAN: I'll explain the policy. Trump and his rich little friends take all our money.
RUFFIN: I feel like --
WOOD JR.: Got it. I understand that now. Why didn't you say it like that? The answer is it's mostly inconsistency around Trump's tariffs.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He puts the tariff in. He puts the tariff out. He puts the tariff in. He puts the tariff out. Then he does the hokey pokey, and he turns us all around.
WOOD JR.: Turn to the left. Turn to the right. Crisscross.
RUFFIN: Stay on your knees, stay on your knees.
WOOD JR.: Everybody tear it wide.
(APPLAUSE)
RUFFIN: Oh, we are black tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[23:00:00]
PHILLIP: You can catch an all-new episode tomorrow at 9 P.M. on CNN. Thank you very much for watching "NewsNight". We'll see you tomorrow morning, 10 A.M., with our conversation show, "Table for Five", and you can catch me anytime on your favorite social media platforms, X, Instagram and TikTok. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
