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CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
Trump's DOJ Tests Above The Law Debate With Defiant Move; Trump Claims Biden's Autopen Pardons Are Void And Vacant; Trump Says Biden's Pardons Are Invalid; Schumer Skipping The Test As The American Public Gives Democrats And His Leadership A Failing Grade; Israel Launches Extensive Strikes In Gaza. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired March 17, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST (voice over): Tonight, words matter, or do they, if they're not written down? The Trump administration tells a judge they're only bound by what's on paper, raising questions about if they're blatantly breaking the law.
Plus, pardons and autopen, the president makes a proclamation that Joe Biden's preemptive pardons for Trump's political enemies are void.
Also, Democrat dodger, Chuck Schumer scraps a book tour as his own party plans to protest his leadership at every turn.
And cornering culture, Donald Trump tries to put a MAGA stamp on the Kennedy Center while welcoming a notorious fighter into the People's House.
Live at the table, Scott Jennings, Ana Navarro, Congressman Adriano Espaillat, and Carrie Sheffield.
Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here, they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York. Let's get right to what America is talking about, above the law. Tonight, the president's men are making an argument that presidents are so powerful that only certain kinds of judges can constrain what they do.
The latest tug of war between the executive and the courts is now over deportations. A federal judge wants answers from the Trump administration about when flights deporting immigrants took off on Saturday, and when the government believes the judge, James Boasberg, ordered those flights to stop. The judge wants those answers by noon. Tomorrow to see if Trump treated a lawful order more like a suggestion, something to be ignored.
But what the White House is saying tonight goes beyond a fight over when something happened. And it goes directly to the heart of our democracy and its functions. The White House is saying out loud on television that there is no such thing as judicial review, that if what the court says constrains the president's power too bad, the president can just do it anyway.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR POLICY: The district court has no ability to, in any way, restrain the president's authorities under the Alien Enemies Act or his ability to conduct the foreign affairs of the United States.
District court judges do not have the authority as a general matter to enjoin the functioning of the executive branch but their authority is at its lowest point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Joining us in our fifth seat at the table is Donte Mills. He's a civil and criminal attorney and a law professor at Temple University.
Donte, take that one on for us. The courts have no authority to constrain the president's power, essentially.
DONTE MILLS, CIVIL AND CRIMINAL ATTORNEY: It has my blood boiling. I'm an attorney, so I'm a little, I guess, subjective. But what you have to know is the law provides structure. We have to know what's right or wrong so we can follow it. And if you have somebody that's going to ignore or disregard the rule of law, it brings chaos. And we can't have that.
And you also want to understand that the judicial branch went through the process of studying the impact of laws. And that's why we have laws. So we say, okay, if this is followed, here's what's going to happen as a result. If you're out here not following that law and you're making up your own rules and following your own guidelines, you haven't thought through what the impact of that is going to be. And it can be very harmful to us as a society if you're making up your own rules and not following the laws that our judicial system has determined moves us in the right direction.
PHILLIP: So, maybe it will end up being that the courts might agree with the Trump administration that this is a national security exercise. But it seems like what Donte is saying and what seems self- evident is that there is a process for determining whether that's true or not, because it's not obvious that immigration enforcement is like carrying out a war, you know, overseas somewhere in Syria or elsewhere.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think a few things. Number one, we've had a number of instances now on immigration and other matters where individual district court judges are trying to effectively substitute their judgment for that of what the White House believes is core function of the presidency as designated by the Constitution.
[22:05:03]
That's a key question and probably needs to be sorted out by the Supreme Court someday. That's number one.
Number two, on the issue of these deportations, it's quite clear the president believes he is keeping the United States and its citizens safe from noncitizens who are in the country illegally, first of all, and, second of all, who have a long history of committing very violent acts from murder to rape to sex trafficking and so on. And --
PHILLIP: Don't you think they have to prove that though? Because, I mean, I think that's -- I don't think anybody disagrees about their ability to deport people who are who are murderers or rapists or whatever, but don't they have to actually prove that those people are who they say they are and that they've carried out those acts of -- those criminal acts?
JENNINGS: Well, we know they're violent people because --
PHILLIP: How do we know?
JENNINGS: Well, because their records have already been pulled. I mean, these people were violent from where they came from, and now they're here illegally. So, wouldn't anyone keep them?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Wait, do we actually know who they are?
PHILLIP: Well, that's what I'm saying.
NAVARRO: Have they even given us their identity?
PHILLIP: (INAUDIBLE) happened in the court today, is that the lawyers for the government couldn't say really who these people were.
MILLS: And interesting enough, what they tried to use is they said, oh, we're looking at some of their tattoos, which means they have a gang affiliation, so they be they can be deported. There's a slippery slope that we don't want to open up. And that's why we have a process for everything,
JENNINGS: But they're illegal immigrants, yes?
MILLS: So, we don't know.
REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT (D-NY): The state of affairs --
MILLS: They're saying they're bad people so they --
PHILLIP: It would be fine --
MILLS: This has all fallen to the rhetoric (INAUDIBLE), right? What if somebody turns that on one of us or somebody else?
JENNINGS: We're citizens. They're not citizens.
MILLS: But there's people who are here --
ESPAILLAT: The state of affairs in America is one that citizens are being stopped and questioned. I met with a U.S. citizen who was stopped at a subway station, questioned by ICE, detained for three hours. This is the state of affairs in America. So, it's not necessarily about who's on that plane who may have a criminal record. We don't know their names or first names and last names. But it is really about those that are not on the plane that could find themselves one day on a plane.
JENNINGS: You all are conflating different groups of people. U.S. citizens are different than noncitizens. And people here under certain status are much different than people who came here illegally, particularly if you came here illegally and you were violent where you came from. And I think the Trump administration, frankly, has a political and maybe even a legal mandate to exit from the country violent, illegal aliens who came in this country.
NAVARRO: Let me -- so, a few things. First of all, Trump is the distractor in chief. So, it benefits him that we're having this argument and that we are talking about and we're watching the video of these supposed violent criminals going into El Salvador because that means we're not talking about the stock market tanking. We're not talking about the ten-year old U.S. citizen girl in the midst of cancer treatment who was deported with her father, her parents, back to Mexico. We are not talking about the little 11-year-old-year old girl who committed suicide in Texas because she was being bullied because her parents were immigrants. We're not talking about those things. We're watching this very graphic video.
We don't know their identity. Honestly, as an immigrant, and I know, Adriano, you are an immigrant as well, I don't know a single immigrant in this country who doesn't want violent criminals booted out. Because if you come to this country and you do something terrible, you really don't deserve to be here. This country is for people who come to live in freedom, who come to seek opportunity, who come for a better future for their children.
And I want to say this. Out of Venezuelans, 0.9 of the Venezuelan immigrants in this country are suspected, not proven, suspected Tren de Aragua. That means that the vast majority who've now had their temporary protective status taken out are good, decent people contributing to this society. Most Venezuelans, I know, Venezuelan- Americans in Miami, in Doral actually, where Trump has his club, voted for Trump, big supporters of Trump. And since Trump got in, first thing he did was send Rick Grenell to go negotiate with Maduro, who lost an election, stole it, and Rick Grenell and Trump have legitimized him and normalized him.
(INAUDIBLE) temporary protective status, and every time he opens his mouth to talk about Venezuelans, he portrays them as gang members.
CARRIE SHEFFIELD, SENIOR POLICY ANALYST, INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S VOICE: So, Trump is doing exactly what he was elected to do. He's not distracted. He was elected. One of the top issues, the economy and immigration, number two issue, according to Gallup, was why President Trump won this election.
And he is focused on the fact that 84,000 people were killed by drug overdoses last year and more than 100,000 the year before that. And so we're talking about opioids. You're talking about components that are originating in China and they're coming up through Mexico, they're coming up, they're trafficked by gangs who do not care about the United States and that is an act of war.
And that is why the president has invoked. This debate here is about a separation of powers by the court.
[22:10:00]
PHILLIP: That is not an act of war. I think that's the crux of the issue.
SHEFFIELD: But this is what President Trump has designated these terrorist groups as foreign terrorist organizations.
PHILLIP: But, Carrie, that is actually -- it's actually not an act of war. I think rhetorically he can use that language if he wants to. He's a politician, he can say what he wants. But it's not actually an act of war. And so as a result of that, it has to be adjudicated in the courts whether or not he can use a law that is designed to apply to actual acts of war to do this. I mean --
JENNINGS: It was an invasion, right?
PHILLIP: Hold on a second. Hold on a second. Even the not so liberal New York Post had this headline about this, speaking to Elon Musk, who was tweeting about this weekend. Sorry, Elon, even deporting illegal gangbangers must heed the rule of law. This is not really a controversial thing because, as the congressman pointed out, there are already court cases being adjudicated right now about U.S. citizens who have been detained by ICE wrongfully, people with illegal status who've been detained and sent to other parts of the country, and there's no accountability. And in this country, we have accountability.
MILLS: And that's what it has to be about here. What we're talking about here is we have laws in place. We have to follow them. We're not saying, keep violent people who came to this country illegally, keep them here. We're not saying that. We want them gone.
JENNINGS: That's what the judge said. The judge said, bring them back. The judge said bring them back.
MILLS: A rule has to be followed.
JENNINGS: What would you do then, by the way?
SHEFFIELD: Okay. There is a law. The law --
(CROSSTALKS)
MILLS: And when you prove that they're violent, then they should be kicked out, then you deport them. But you can't make up your own rules and just bypass the judicial system. You can't ignore a judge because we have rules in place. And it's all -- it's fine and dandy now because you don't like who they're targeting, but what happened when you do when there's people who's being targeted --
JENNINGS: There's no illegal alien. I would say, let's keep here over another one. I mean, these people are here in the country illegally, first of all. Second of all, it's a violent population.
MILLS: But if they're following the rules, then they're following the rules to process.
ESPAILLAT: There's due process. But I want to go back to distraction because the graphic scenes that you see on T.V. are lead to a level of distraction.
PHILLIP: Can we show, just so that people know, because you both have referred to it, let's just show, we have some of the video that have been released over the last couple of days showing I guess certain agents, federal agents shaving the heads of detainees, et cetera, et cetera. These are the images that you're talking about.
ESPAILLAT: Well, you know, no one is against deporting a violent criminal. No one, no immigrant is against that. But the distraction, the kind of the telenovela that's going on first between Trump and Musk, and now this, it's a distraction to the major cuts that are being forced down on people's throat. It is the public policy that is being tried to be implemented. It is the executive orders, 92-plus of them that are being implemented, and a good number of them are being challenged in court. This is what's happening behind the scenes. This is what's hurting the American people. This is what will hurt pocketbook issues.
PHILLIP: Are you arguing that this is not important?
ESPAILLAT: I'm saying that there's due process for everyone, including the president of the United States. There's due process for everybody.
MILLS: Whatever you're saying, and you guys keep saying it, and you say this is a distraction. It's not. This is an important issue. The fact that Trump is saying, I don't care what a judge says, I have this belief and I'm going to carry it out anyway, is a huge --
(CROSSTALKS)
SHEFFIELD: That's not what he said. I don't think that's what the president said. So, what happened was you have the legislative branch, the Alien Enemies Act. The legislative branch passed a law that said when you have a predatory incursion or invasion, then the executive can act decisively, which is what the president did.
Again, I go back to the number of 84,000 people killed by opioid overdose, drug overdose last year. That is 28 times the number of people murdered in 9/11. We went to war over nine, over 3,000 deaths in one year. We're talking 84,000 deaths in one year, 110,000 deaths the year before. That is the definition of the legislation of predatory incursion.
And so you have the legislative and you have the executive acting in concert and you have the judicial. This is a violation of the separation of powers. That is what the White House is arguing.
PHILLIP: You're totally mixing up -- you're completely mucking up the waters here because you're talking about a statute that was implemented long before this particular moment and honestly has never been used for a situation like this. And I think at the very least, even just to support what you're saying, the process to figure out whether or not this is legal is actually in the courts. It's actually for a district court to say, hey, let's have some hearings on this. But before you do that, don't deport people before we know whether their rights have been violated.
JENNINGS: I'm just looking at this --
NAVARRO: Here's, to me, what the issue was. First of all, when I say it's a distraction, it's not what he's doing. It's the way he's doing it, right? Because he could deport these people and not make a video of it in a stunt and be in cahoots with Nayib Bukele in El Salvador.
[22:15:06]
He could do it a different way. It's very similar to what he did sending supposedly Tren de Aragua people to Guantanamo, who've now had to be brought back because it was logistically impossible. But it was a big thing that he had sent undocumented immigrants to Guantanamo.
Look, here's the problem though. The problem is that there are no guardrails, and the problem is that, in theory, there are supposed to be co-equal branches of government. But are the Republicans in Congress going to impeach him if he breaks the law or if he doesn't follow judicial order? They are not. And what enforcement mechanism, realistically speaking and practically speaking, do these courts have to make the president of the United States turn a plane around?
JENNINGS: Look, the political mechanism is, we have elections. And if the American people decide that you're right or that you're right and we should coddle foreign terrorists who have come in --
NAVARRO: Nobody has said that. No, do not put words on my mouth.
JENNINGS: But if they decide that Trump is right and that -- they're no different than Hamas or ISIS. If Hamas or ISIS came here and committed these same acts, we would be screaming. We would be screaming to throw them out.
PHILLIP: Scott, nobody is disagreeing with you that criminals should be deported. The problem is that the government has not been able to prove that all of these people are who they say they are. And that's at the very minimum what they ought to be able to do. Everybody agrees, you're arguing with the wrong people about whether or not --
SHEFFIELD: They don't even have the same rights. They're not U.S. citizens.
PHILLIP: Hold on.
(CROSSTALKS) JENNINGS: Everyone has right to due process.
(CROSSTALKS)
NAVARRO: There were Venezuelans sent to Guantanamo, who were supposedly Tren de Aragua members, who were not. So, yes, we have, we are wondering who these people are.
PHILLIP: It's --
NAVARRO: Just let us know. Let there be transparency.
PHILLIP: To be continued, to be continued, there's a lot more to this conversation.
Coming up next, Trump's new revenge fantasy includes Joe Biden's use of the autopen, and whether his pardons are actually legitimate. We'll discuss that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:20:00]
PHILLIP: Tonight, Donald Trump has a new conspiracy. The president says pardons issued by Joe Biden are void because he didn't physically sign them. The Truth Social post hit the internet overnight, and the preemptive protections for Trump's political enemies, Trump says, are of no further force or effect because of the fact that they were done by autopen before guessing that his predecessor didn't know anything about them.
Now, that is a baseless claim without anything to support it but one that everyone probably should have seen coming because Trump has been harping on the autopen for days.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: That autopen is a big deal.
You don't use autopen, it's -- number one, it's disrespectful to the office. Number two, maybe it's not even valid because, you know, who's getting him to sign?
You know, that's a big subject. I'm sure you won't ask about that. But the whole subject of autopen, did he know what he was doing?
REPORTER: Have you yourself ever used autopen, sir?
TRUMP: Yes, only for very unimportant papers.
I'll sign them whenever I can, but when I can't, I, you know, would use an autopen. But to use them for what they've used it for is terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: Now, on this one, I might agree with you two that this is prime Trump distraction territory, but it is useful to sort of see the anatomy of this type of conspiracy. It starts with someone maybe in conservative media saying something about autopen, and all of a sudden Trump is saying it and tweeting it and saying that without even proving that autopen was used, frankly, that this is something that he can just invalidate.
MILLS: Yes. And, again, we're going back to structure. We need structure, and rules of law and structure in this country because that's how we operate. If he's saying pardons don't matter, don't count anymore because of this autopen, now you're essentially invalidating the whole pardon system. So, now can his pardons be challenged? For whatever reason, the next president comes in and says, I want to challenge your pardons, that's not how we should operate. We have rules, we have laws, and they must be followed.
JENNINGS: I'm skeptical that the pen itself, the device itself would be invalidating. I do think it is a question about, look, there's credible reporting across lots of mainstream media outlets about Joe Biden's capacities.
SHEFFIELD: Elder abuse?
JENNINGS: And so, if we believe, or it could be shown that these things were not signed by his own hand, it is a legitimate question. Was he in the room when they used the autopen? Who did he tell to do it? I mean, I do think because the pardon is a core constitutional function of the presidency, the idea that he didn't sign the documents does raise questions.
ESPAILLAT: But the autopen has become a common practice in the White House. Here we are talking about that and not about the hundreds of January 6th pardons that he proposed and implemented in the White House. That should be -- maybe let's take a look at each and every one of them.
JENNINGS: But he's seen those. I think he did it on T.V.
ESPAILLAT: He signed those. But the autopen process has been a common practice in the White House, and now he wants to invalidate.
(CROSSTALKS)
SHEFFIELD: I actually don't think it's about the pen. I don't think it's about the pen. I think it's about the cognitive decline of Joe Biden that the press covered up for four years. It's about the fact that this could be -- he's talking about elder abuse. He's talking about his -- the cognition of the former president was highly questionable. And I'll give you some numbers about the FBI --
[22:25:00]
PHILLIP: Don't you have to be able to actually demonstrate that there -- that if Trump is claiming that Biden had absolutely no idea what was going on here, don't you have to actually have evidence of that? NAVARRO: Well, okay. Let's talk about whether Biden knew what he was talking about or not. Joe Biden gave interviews where -- okay, listen, and Donald Trump, well --
SHEFFIELD: She asked me a question.
NAVARRO: Okay, I'm now answering the question myself.
PHILLIP: Just a second, okay? Finish your thought and then you can jump in.
SHEFFIELD: So, we have lots of evidence of Biden's cognitive decline. He was calling on dead reporters in press conferences. He was shaking hands with ghosts that didn't exist. He couldn't even go -- like he was shaking hands with the air. He was -- he didn't know where to go. He had to be guided because he had no idea what was going on. He couldn't do a basic sentence without looking at a large card.
PHILLIP: Let's say that all of this is true. Again, it's a very specific allegation here. I mean, just on a basic level, you got to be able to actually show proof of the thing that you're alleging and there is no proof of any of this.
SHEFFIELD: Well, he says that $28.3 billion in elder exploitation every year, FBI says $3.4 billion dollars in internet crime against elders every year.
PHILLIP: Okay.
SHEFFIELD: So, the question about cognitive --
PHILLIP: So, that is proof that -- that is proof that Biden used autopen to sign the pardons that he didn't know about?
SHEFFIELD: No. I'm just saying that there's a lot of evidence that elder abuse happens.
PHILLIP: Those are important statistics, but it has nothing to do with the conversation.
NAVARRO: Well, here's a good thing. The good thing is that Donald Trump is going to be the oldest president when he leaves office, assuming that he makes it to four years. And so then we can talk about elder abuse of Donald Trump then.
In the meantime, we saw Joe Biden actually. Speak and give interviews and respond to questions about some of these specific pardons, particularly for the January 6th committee that are being referred to.
What I think is worrying here to me, at least, is that there's a reason. You know, this is Donald Trump setting up the foundation to try to continue investigating and to try to continue to go against the Liz Cheneys and the other members of that January 6th committee that irritate him, right, that he's angry about that, he wants to take retribution and revenge on. If he is taking retribution against a law firm that represented Hillary Clinton, imagine what he would like to do? He's told us what he'd like to do to Liz Cheney.
PHILLIP: This is a big part of the question here. Is he setting up retribution? This is what he said on Friday at the DOJ, no less, about his political enemies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Unfortunately, in recent years, a corrupt group of hacks and radicals within the ranks of the American government obliterated the trust and goodwill built up over generations.
We will expel the rogue actors and corrupt forces from our government. We will expose and very much expose their egregious crimes and severe misconduct of which was levels you've never seen anything like it.
They're scum and you have to know that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, this is, Donte, back to what you were kind of saying earlier in the previous block, which is it's always a question with Trump of is this about something underlying, which is his desire to prosecute these people who are now protected by pardons. And will he just test the system and see if he can get away with it?
MILLS: So, he gets in his mind what he wants to happen and this is figure out how I can make this happen. Whether it's illegal or not, whether I should be doing it or not, we don't have to listen to judges. We can invalidate part presidential pardons as long as I get what I want.
And there's a lot of people that's okay with that because they're not a target right now. But if they become a target and Trump ignores everything that's in place and there's no stopgap to prevent the people he's targeting from being punished, then it's going to be a problem. So, I'm saying we have to speak up now.
PHILLIP: When the issue is on the other foot, would you be okay with that, pardons just disappearing because the president says that they should?
JENNINGS: Well, I'm skeptical that argument's going to hold up, but I just would say on the Biden pardons, they didn't go through the normal process. They didn't go through the DOJ. You've been talking about normal process.
PHILLIP: That's true of Trump's pardons too.
JENNINGS: Well, I know, but no one's alleging that he had a device, signed them, and he wasn't aware of it.
PHILLIP: But, Scott, as we've established, since 2005, it has been established the president can use autopen. It doesn't change anything.
JENNINGS: I'm not arguing that it is.
PHILLIP: Also Trump didn't go through a process either, and that's not required. It's a constitutional liability.
JENNINGS: I know that, but because it didn't go through a process, and it was his own family, and it was apparently handled by a very small number of people in the White House. These pardons probably have less visibility than any pardons in modern history.
PHILLIP: This is also referring to the January 6th committee members, not the family.
JENNINGS: But they didn't run any of this through DOJ. And so at the end --
PHILLIP: Is that suddenly an issue now?
JENNINGS: Well, at the end of the Biden -- at the end of the Biden administration, legitimate questions have been asked about who was running the White House and who was exercising the authority of the Office of the President. These are not illegitimate questions.
[22:30:00]
PHILLIP: I don't -- you got to -- hold on. I think you have to be you have to be fair about it if you say that it's a problem to not run this by DOJ.
JENNINGS: No.
PHILLIP: It's got to be a problem to not run other parties.
JENNINGS: No, I'm saying there's little transparency.
PHILLIP: He pardoned 1600 January 6th - - convicted January 6th rioters, including people who assaulted --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: And talked about doing it for months.
PHILLIP: And yeah. But it didn't go --
JENNINGS: There's no question that some -- some unnamed --
PHILLIP: But Scott, but Scott --
JENNINGS: - family member did it on his behalf.
PHILLIP: Just -
JENNINGS: We don't know that about Biden.
PHILLIP: Just -- just to be intellectually honest, you would also have to say that should have gone through a process, and it did not.
JENNINGS: Well, to be intellectually honest, why are you denying all of the mainstream reporting about who was actually running the Biden White House? PHILLIP: Well, that's --
(CROSSTALK)
JENNINGS: Including reporting.
NAVARRO: Saying that this has not been run by DOJ.
PHILLIP: Tonight, we are all about changing topics when questions are being asked.
NAVARRO: Yes.
PHILLIP: But I just want to note, that is not what we were discussing.
NAVARRO: Well, the problem is that he is looking for a loophole to be able to investigate these people. And here's the problem, that if he tells Pam Bondi and Kash Patel, go and investigate Liz Cheney, and here's the loophole because these pardons don't hold. Do you think they're going to push back on him? I know Pam Bondi. I don't think she will.
MILLS: And do you think it's going to stop there?
JENNINGS: I don't -- I don't know.
PHILLIP: Donte Mills, thank you very much for joining us. Everyone else, thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate you.
Everyone else, stay with us. Coming up next, MIA, Chuck Schumer postpones a book tour as the Democratic based-questions with strategy for resisting the Trump White House. Another guest is going to join us in that fifth seat.
Plus, breaking news tonight. The truth is over. Israel launching extensive strikes in Gaza tonight. We're going to take you there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:36:06]
PHILLIP: Tonight, Chuck Schumer is skipping the test as the American public gives Democrats and his leadership a failing grade. The top Democrat in the senate is canceling a book tour over what his office called security threats. He's doing it as its voters are expressing historic unhappiness with his party, driven by Democrats.
Only 29 percent of Americans say that they like the Democratic Party. That is the lowest number on record in CNN polling, going all the way back to 1992. And Democrats can thank Democrats for the decline. Only 63 percent of Democrats have a favorable view of their own party, well down from the 81 percent back at the start of Joe Biden's term.
Congressman, I'm going to start with you, but Cari Champion is with us at the table. This is a big problem for the Democratic Party. And are they right to be pissed off at Chuck Schumer for what he did last week?
ESPAILLAT: Look, the continuing resolution, the C.R., would hurt my district tremendously. You know, I have over 500,000 Medicaid recipients and over a hundred thousand Medicare recipients out of 780,000 people that I represent. So, it was it would devastate my district.
Both so would the shutdown of government. Both actions are Republican proposed actions. They're both horrendous for the people that I represent, and I estimate that maybe even for the American people. So, to sit here now and -- and excuse the Republican party and not ask about the content of each of these proposals is also a great mistake.
Of course, we should do better. We should take a deep dive. We should fight harder at the legislative and -- and budgetary process. We should fight harder in courts of challenging these executive orders. And we should go down to our base, and not just our base that votes for us on a regular basis. Some of the ones that voted for Trump.
We should go and listen to them and mobilize them because at the end of the day, at the end of the day, as Abraham Lincoln said, you know, the feeling of the American people is what moves government. And so, we must make sure that we do that.
NAVARRO: Congressman, as a congressman from New York, who knows Chuck Schumer, are do you support what Chuck Schumer and-- and the Democrats that voted with him did in in the senate?
ESPAILLAT: I voted I voted against the C.R., and so did - did, my colleagues. And, all of them, save one Democrat, we all voted against the C.R. Obviously, that did not happen in the senate. Different scenario, different thing. But both -- both options, the CR and the shutdown in government are horrendous options. I wouldn't bring this forward.
PHILLIP: It sounds like you think the shutdown would have been just as bad as the system.
ESPAILLAT: No, I voted against the proposal. I voted against the continuing resolution.
PHILLIP: Yes, but what I'm saying, when it came to -- when push came to shove and it was Chuck Schumer deciding whether there was or was not going to a be a shutdown, you think a shutdown would have been just as bad politically and practically?
ESPAILLAT: Well, a shutdown will hurt my district just -- just as bad as well. But I couldn't I couldn't -- I looked in my -- my soul, and I couldn't vote for C.R.
PHILLIP: Yeah, so --
ESPAILLAT: He looked at his, and he couldn't vote, for a shutdown.
PHILLIP: So -- ESPAILLAT: -- but both are Republican proposals brought forward by the Republican-led Congress. And, yes, I think that we should we should -- we should talk about the content of each of those proposals.
PHILLIP: So, the -- you know, you talked about the feeling of the American people. The feeling of the Democratic Party is that they are very unhappy, okay? I thought -- I thought this polling was interesting. This is, whether Democrats should work with the GOP or stop the Republican agenda.
But what I want you to look at here is how this has changed. And back in 2017, 74 percent of Democrats said they should work with the GOP. Now, 57 percent say they should stop the Republican agenda. There has been a complete shift in the mindset of the Democratic Party. They want resistance.
[22:40:02]
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: CONTRIBUTOR: I want to say --
PHILLIP: They want a Tea Party.
CHAMPION: One hundred percent. And what you just said, we should listen to the people. You said as -- Congressmen, am I correct --
ESPAILLAT: That's correct.
CHAMPION: -- in saying that you just said we should listen to the people? Why aren't they listening to the people? There's no leadership. There's nobody doing anything. And what we saw, honestly, was a cave. Yet again, another example with Schumer saying, I don't want the smoke. And we're asking. I mean, they are begging.
She just showed this -- the dramatic shift. I don't understand what the problem is. Why is there nobody, for lack of a better word, with some cajones to stand up and say, what are we doing? What are we doing?
ESPAILLAT: Well, look.
CHAMPION: If you know we need it, and I'm not trying to give you the smoke, but if you know we need it, why is it not happening?
ESPAILLAT: Look. They need -- we need to throw a punch. That's correct. And the American people want us to throw a punch.
NAVARRO: By the way, political -- you're political punch, not a little punch because then they're going to say stuff.
ESPAILLAT: Now, now, of course of course, you know, the proposals that they're bringing are are horrendous enough for us to do that, and we should do that.
JENNINGS: What's horrendous about the C.R.? It continues funding the government that Biden regulated.
ESPAILLAT: Horrendous about the C.R. is that it -- it is a cut.
JENNINGS: No.
ESPAILLAT: Yes, it is.
JENNINGS: No.
ESPAILLAT: If you do not -- if you do not yet -- if you do not consider the cost of doing business, you do if you do not consider that the cost of living, for example, has gone up, that everything has gone up.
JENNINGS: Now, you're changing. It's not a cut. You're being dishonest.
ESPAILLAT: It's a cut.
JENNINGS: It's not a cut.
ESPAILLAT: It's a cut.
JENNINGS: If continuing funding the government at the same levels. It's not a cut. You voted to shut down the government. You voted to lay off every veteran in the federal government. You're making a passionate plea for why Democrats didn't shut down the government. And now Chuck Schumer can't even have a book tour because Democrats are so --
CHAMPION: Oh no --
JENNINGS: -- enraged that the government would -- and I'm just confused because last week, I was told that people going and expressing their first amendment rights was part of their democratic and civic duty. And now Chuck Schumer can't even have a book party with Democrats over it. That's fine to decide.
PHILLIP: Scott, I actually think that that Democrats are in agreement with you in the sense that they probably -- they probably think Chuck Schumer should --
(CROSSTALK)
CHAMPION: Yes, exactly.
PHILLIP: -- take the --
(CROSSTALK)
CHAMPION: He should show up and take the --
(CROSSTALK)
CHAMPION: No one's saying he can't have it, Scott. He can do whatever he chose to, but once again, another example of him deciding to hide. I would love for him to go on the book tour so that he can answer the questions of the American people. Security risk, perhaps, may be true according to what Abby has said and what his office is saying.
JENNINGS: Who -- who would be the security risk, though?
CHAMPION: I don't know. All I'm saying is --
JENNINGS: Who would be the security risk?
(CROSSTALK)
CHAMPION: need to hold on a minute?
JENNINGS: Who is the risk?
CHAMPION: Scott.
JENNINGS: I mean, just admit who the risk is.
NAVARRO: The book is about anti-Semitism, right? So, I guess somebody that that might be anti-Semitic might target Chuck Schumer tomorrow.
UNKNOWN: Yes.
NAVARRO: He's supposed to be on "The View". I think that, hasn't changed. He'll be on the hot seat there. I also think he should go on this book tour because if we are talking about Republicans who don't have the "cojones", to quote you, to show up to actually even do town halls even though there -- there were town halls of constituents all over the country this weekend begging the Republicans to show up and answer questions. They refused to do so.
But so, I think Chuck Schumer should face the music, should -- as harsh as it may be, should answer people, and should be -- and should portray some leadership and confidence, which he has done in the past.
PHILLIP: Yeah.
SHEFFIELD: Okay. I think Chuck Schumer was the adult in the room. He did what the American people want. The American people want government. They want people to get deals done. And the fact of the matter is people don't want to punch. The fact of the matter is people are actually excited. NBC News on "Meet the Press", they reported their polling found the highest level of enthusiasm and the country going in the right direction since 2004. Twenty years.
So, President Trump is doing exactly what he campaigned on. That's the why 76 percent of people said -- according to CBS polling, agreed with the State of the Union speech, which included a lot of independents and a lot of Democrats who are watching that speech.
CHAMPION: Oh, my Carrie.
SHEFFIELD: That is why --
CHAMPION: Carrie. Carrie. My namesake, Carrie.
SHEFFIELD: Yes, my fellow Carrie. CHAMPION: You -- you do know what you're saying is incorrect.
SHEFFIELD: No.
CHAMPION: I don't care about the polling.
SHEFFIELD: Talk to NBC.
CHAMPION: The America -- I don't -- I don't -- I don't care what NBC is saying. I can talk to the people on the streets. Are you on the streets? Are you talking to people --
SHEFFIELD: Absolutely. I am.
CHAMPION: -- in real life situations --
SHEFFIELD: Absolutely.
CHAMPION: -- who have everyday jobs who are saying they're unhappy? You know very well.
JENNINGS: They're saying CNN polling is wrong?
SHEFFIELD: They're saying that --
CHAMPION: What I'm saying is --
SHEFFIELD: That Joe Biden --
CHAMPION: Don't try me today, Scotty.
JENNINGS: We put out a CNN poll. Are you saying our polling is wrong?
CHAMPION: No. What I'm saying to you is that, you know, by and large, people are not happy.
JENNINGS: No. They're very happy. They're unhappy with Democrats.
CHAMPION: You're happy.
JENNINGS: They're happy with Trump.
CHAMPION: You're happy. You're happy. Democrats aren't happy.
PHILLIP: Let me --
CHAMPION: We're not happy with Democrats on the way they handle the situation.
PHILLIP: -- let me try to let me try to sort this out real quick before we have to go to break. The -- the American people are not very happy with the direction of the economy. They are not very happy with Democrats. There's a lot of unhappiness to go down.
CHAMPION: Correct. PHILLIP: For the time being, Donald Trump's approval rating continues
to go in the wrong direction. He is becoming more unpopular as time goes on, but we'll see how that goes. Breaking news. Right now though for us, Israel is launching extensive strikes in Gaza tonight, shattering a ceasefire, and we are live in the Middle East next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:49:40]
(VOICE-OVER)
This is CNN breaking news.
PHILLIP: The boom of bombs soundtrack the end of a ceasefire in the Middle East. Tonight, Israel is launching extensive strikes in Gaza. Officials there call the attacks preemptive, but are refusing to elaborate on what exactly the strikes are preventing.
[22:50:00]
CNN's Jeremy Diamond is live in Tel Aviv for us. Jeremy, what do we know about what is happening right now?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Abby, a massive aerial bombardment of the Gaza Strip is currently underway, and at least 86 people have been killed according to the Palestine Red Crescent Society.
More than a hundred and thirty four people have been injured. And I can tell you from reviewing a number of videos and images from inside the Gaza Strip that there are certainly civilians among the dead, including a number of children and babies, whose dead bodies, are are evident, in the imagery, from Gaza.
The Israeli government says that it launched these attacks, following Hamas' refusal to agree to new conditions in order to release additional hostages. We know that last week, Steve Witkoff, the U.S. special envoy for the region, presented Hamas with a proposal, demanding that they free five living hostages as well as a number of deceased hostages.
Hamas countered by saying that they would only free one living hostage and four bodies of hostages. And now days later, the Israeli government clearly losing its patience with that back and forth negotiation and deciding to unilaterally end this ceasefire. Hamas, is calling for the United Nations Security Council to hold an emergency meeting, on this.
We have yet to see any Hamas attacks, into Israeli territory at this point, but it does certainly appear that after just about two months of ceasefire in Gaza, that truce now appears to very much be dead as the Israeli government not only carries out this aerial bombardment, but is also warning of additional military action going forward.
An Israeli official told me tonight, that Israel, will expand beyond air strikes, as, this situation continues to develop. Again, the Israelis insisting that Hamas must release additional hostages in order for the bombardment to stop. We do understand that the White House was indeed informed about these Israeli strikes ahead of time, and certainly is not opposing them. Abby.
PHILLIP: All right, Jeremy Diamond, thank you very much for that report. We'll stay close with you as the story develops, and we'll be back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREALK)
[22:56:55]
PHILLIP: We're back, and it's time for the "NewsNight" cap, brackets edition. Sixty-eight college basketball teams are going to a play to find out who is the best this year. So, you each now have 30 seconds to tell us what else needs the trusty bracket format to determine the best of its kind. Congressman, you're up.
ESPAILLAT: Ethnic New York City food. I think we need to have a bracket for that. Yes.
PHILLIP: I agree.
PHILLIP: The Caribbean food will win. All right, go ahead, Carrie.
SHEFFIELD: Regional barbecue -- Texas, Kansas City, Carolinas will win. Vinegar.
UNKNOWN: Okay.
PHILLIP: Carrie and I had this conversation. My husband is not going to like this.
SHEFFIELD: I'm with your husband.
PHILLIP: I'm not a big Carolina barbecue person, but I get it. I get it.
CHAMPION: I think there needs to be a bracket. I'm a big movie person, but one of my favorite actors of all time is Robert De Niro, and we need a bracket. We need to separate his comedies from his actual -- from his hardcore movies that I really love. So, if I had to do, like, a championship, one of his movies, it would be "Heat". But it could be like "Raging Bull" taking on "Taxi Drive" who advances from that.
PHILLIP: Wow. Wow.
CHAMPION: I'm very -- I thought about this very deeply.
PHILLIP: I was so impressed. He's got a new movie coming. He has a new movie coming out. Everything like, five of his movies are already AFI 100. I mean, he's really a legend, and we need to give him the respect that he deserves. So he deserves a bracket.
ESPAILLAT: "You're talking to me". CHAMPION: Yes. Yes.
PHILLIP: Okay. There you go. Turns out she's right. Ana?
NAVARRO: What can I tell you? I barely know what a bracket is. So, this, for me, has -- is very hard, but I think we should do a bracket on "White Lotus" and who's going to die every season. We can all, you know --
CHAMPION: That's a good one.
NAVARRO: Guess who the ultimate victim --
CHAMPION: That's a good one.
NAVARRO: -- will be after the seventh episode.
PHILLIP: I think that's necessary.
NAVARRO: Who do you think does?
PHILLIP: I can't -- I can't, I'm not caught up. I'm not caught up.
UNKNOWN: Oh, Abby.
PHILLIP: Don't spoil it. Okay. Scott?
JENNINGS: Before I go, if I don't defend Western Kentucky barbecue --
UNKNOWN: Oh.
JENNINGS: -- when I go home, I'll be --
SHEFFIELD: It's like fourth place.
JENNINGS: -- pounded by my entire family. So, I'm just saying the Mutton Outwest, not -- not --
CHAMPION: You're not for bourbon and raisins. You're not known for --
SHEFFIELD: No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
JENNINGS: But we are. Oh, in West Kentucky.
PHILLIP: Western Kentucky barbecue. That's the new one.
CHAMPION: Yeah. I've never heard of it.
NAVARRO: The mutton, is that what you're saying?
JENNINGS: Flower Country (ph) guys. I encourage you all to get out --
(CROSSTALK)
CHAMPION: Yeah, literally.
UNKNOWN: The mutton, mutton, is that what you're saying?
PHILLIP: Go ahead, Scott.
JENNINGS: Yeah. It's lamb.
SHEFFIELD: No, it's Carolina's Kansas City, Texas, and then you're maybe, like, eighth place, but --
JENNINGS: Oh --
PHILLIP: Go ahead, Scott.
JENNINGS: All right. What we need, with apologies to Joe Leonardi, a "wokatology" bracket --
CHAMPION: Oh, Lord.
JENNINGS: -- to assess the most unhinged Democrats trying to take over the Democratic Party right now. I've got my number one seeds. We got Jasmine Crockett. We got AOC. We got Ilhan Omar. Now, the fourth one, I'm undecided about. I'm tempted to give it to Chris Murphy because he's just really picked up his game in the last two to -- two to three weeks.
But I really think we need a bracket to see which of these crazy Dems is going to ultimately take control of this party and bring its approval ratings from 29 to even lower depths. That's my hope for --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I'm going to --I'm going to --
NAVARRO: I think -- I think those woke Democrats would probably put you at number one on their brackets of Trump ecologists.
CHAMPION: One hundred percent. You're -- he's the number one team.
[23:00:00]
SHEFFIELD: -- topic here and were laughing, and then you just --
PHILLIP: We can always count on Scott Jennings to bring it back.
JENNINGS: Who's going to win?
PHILLIP: Politics.
JENNINGS: Jasmine.
PHILLIP: I think it's very interesting that you put Chris Murphy out there. That's interesting. Everyone, thank you very much, and thank you for watching "NewsNight". You can catch me anytime on your favorite social media via X, Instagram, and TikTok @abbydphillip. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
